Hacking Longevity Starts with Detoxification – Chris Shade, Ph.D. : 884

You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey, formerly Bulletproof Radio.

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For 10 years across a thousand episodes and a quarter billion listens. My podcast has elevated what you knew about the capabilities of your mind and body. And because we're at the 10 year anniversary, I'm evolving Bulletproof Radio even further in my plan to upgrade humanity. And I'm evolving myself as well. I invite you to expand your knowledge, explore your performance, and embrace your possibility. With the Human Upgrade, you'll meet bright thinkers and radical doers who push the boundaries of science, technology, personal development, and human performance in every way imaginable. Every guest you listen to, every topic you learn about, every new idea you discover on this podcast is there to move you forward. And join me on this next evolution to upgrade your mind, body and life. And be sure that you're subscribed to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey on your favorite podcast platform so you hear every single episode. My commitment to you is that the time you spend with me on the Human Upgrade will always return more value to you than you spent on it. You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey, formerly known as Bulletproof Radio. Actually, not me, that's formerly known as Bulletproof Radio, but the show was formerly Bulletproof Radio. I was formerly known as the Artist, formerly known as Prince, but that was in a different life. Never mind. All right, clearly this morning I've been intermittent fasting. I've not had enough coffee, but I do have nice marks on my arm from the needles because I was getting some labs drawn this morning, but nothing like a sexy lab. This was just basic stuff because I'm going to have a bone in my foot on in half. Uh, why? Why not? We'll get into that. And how do you prepare for surgery? And how do you heal way faster than you're supposed to after surgery? I'm going to do a whole episode for you with a lot of details and a lot of extra camera work, but that's coming up. Oh, in a couple weeks here, so you'll hear more about that later. Today though, we are going to talk about blood. We're going to talk about serum biomarkers and epigenetics and. And some really cool stuff around age clocks with my friend Christopher shade, who's a Ph.D. who knows a thing or two about environmental science, chemistry, biology, and how to deliver detox chemicals inside the body. He is the founder of a Colorado based company called Quicksilver Scientific that is very well known for making liposomal formulations of all kinds of things that you can get into the body. And if you don't know what a liposome is, you're going to learn. If you follow me, you probably know that you get way more toxins than you used to if you were alive a hundred years ago. And maybe you could help those detox systems work. I think Chris is one of the masters of doing that from our modern set of people who know a lot. And he's actually a patented mercury or he has patented a mercury speciation test to figure out what kind of mercury you have. Chris, welcome to the show. I'm excited to get a chance to pick your brain.

Well, thank you, Dave. It's a pleasure to be here. I'm happy to start talking about all these things, you know, especially Home Depot.

You know, I've I heard a rumor that your favorite detox method was actually the coffee enema. Is this true?

Well, I just don't like to take anything in the ass.

How would you know?

Well, I just have a natural aversion to it and every time I try there's some sort of like I don't think this is really working.

That was the most inappropriate question I've ever asked in almost a thousand episodes. But it was funny.

I would be the guy for.

Turns out the reason I asked about coffee enemas is that this is a long standing thing in the world of health. People say, well if you use coffee as an enema and by the way, there are lots of people like my mold free coffee stuff for that reason because at least it has less toxins. And they say it's because it raises glutathione in the liver. My take on it, having tried it a couple times, is that A, that's way too much caffeine absorption, B, you really should cool the coffee off first and see if you look at the, you look at the science behind doesn't appear that it meets the risk reward much less that's gross kind of thing. But the rectal delivery route is good. So we're going to get into some more of how do you really increase glutathione that way. And also there are some things that absorb very well rectally and I'm not opposed to that. And glutathione is one of them, but I just wouldn't say coffee is one of them. And I know that you have patented and discovered and explored all these different delivery mechanisms but I think it's interesting, like I just don't like that one. But medically, there might be some things you'd put there. But you can take almost anything you want orally and it'll absorb if you craft it the right way.

Exactly. You know, and I see a lot of the people who are really sick, they get to where their bile's all jacked up. And, you know, when we talk about detox, that whole detox being totally coordinated with bioflow is that's a major thing toxins leave on bioflow outlets from your liver. So people who get locked up in there need some help. And so they turn to the coffee enema because it's supposed to open that up. And I do believe that that it does. It opens up and forces some bioflow out of the liver. But there's so many other products that do as well.

Oh, man. You said some words that get me really excited. Bile flow. So you are a very well schooled detox specialist for all kinds of toxins. Bio flow was in the bulletproof diet. My first big books. And guys, this kind of matters. But it seems like even now, 10 years later, it's not something that you hear about except in some functional doctors offices. Can you walk through bile flow and how you might turn it up and why you might turn it up?

Totally. You know, and a lot of my friends who are naturopaths always love that I talk about bioflow. And, you know, naturopaths always talked about opening up bioflow. And you look to the use of bitters, not just in cocktails. But where'd that come from? That was sort of the cure all in the early 1900s, late 1800s. And how did it help? So many different things because it opened up more bile flow. So then we got to talk about toxins in the liver and bile trafficking in the whole body. And it's actually called canalicular trafficking. It's like drug trafficking. You know, I was trying to make it to that conference to speak, but I got picked up at Denver International Airport and I was arrested for canalicular trafficking.

Nice. The dad jokes don't stop. Functional medicine. Dad jokes. It's like a Venn diagram of six people, but half of them are here in our audience. So it's all good. Yeah.

How many people get it? So where does that all come from? So inside the hepatocyte. If we pictured like a square here, every hepatocyte is fed on one side by blood, and it's drained on the other side by bile in the bile canaliculus. So if you picture like an upside down Tree. And the roots of the tree are the bile tree. Going into the liver, you go from the common bile duct up into a million little branches into these tiny little vessels called bile canaliculi, hence the canaliculi trafficking. So every cell, blood's coming on one side and you're pulling toxins in. These toxins may have been conjugated or processed in a cell, or they may be raw toxins from your food or from the air. And they're pulled into the cell. Any further transformations happen there, and then they're dumped out with the bile into the bile canaliculus. And there's these transporters that move them out. One's called Mrp2, and it moves toxins and bile salts. And then its sister transporter that works with it is called bcep, Bile salt export pump. And these are co regulated. They turn up together, they turn down together. So these toxins and bile salts are pumping out of the hepatocyte. Now there's other transporters on the blood side. One is moving bile salts in. So bile salts, you know, we all think of bile as this thing for digestion. And it goes into the upper GI and it emulsifies fats. It's got some digestive enzymes, and any that you don't use in the lower gi, you reabsorb, bring back into the blood so you don't have to resynthesize those. So you're pulling in bile salts and toxins into the hepatocyte. But there's two doors that push out of the hepatocyte into the blood, and one moves bile salts and one moves toxins. Now why are they there? So normally we're drawing through the liver cell, the hepatocyte, into the bile and out. But when certain things block the flow of bile out of the hepatocyte, then these things build up in the cell and cause all of this disruption in the cell. And the cell has to get rid of them or it's going to die. The bile salts are detergents are going to dissolve the cell. The toxins are causing chemical stress and oxidative stress. So when they can't go out of the cell, they build up and then they dump back into the blood. All these bile salts and toxins rush into the blood. They redistribute into the body. They go to the kidneys that cause kidney stress. The kidney tries to keep up with them, but then it gets blocked. They go to the skin. They first cause itching. The bile salts lodge under the skin, and they cause itching and pruritus. Then the toxins come out through the skin, and they cause rashes. And all these toxins are going to the brain, too, and causing inflammation, neuroinflammation, and brain fog and anxiety and stress. So that's all because you're not processing the toxins and dumping them out with the bile. And that's called intrahepatic, or in the liver cholestasis, versus, like, a gallstone, which is extrahepatic cholestasis. So we need to encourage the bile flow. So we got to talk about what blocks the bile flow and what opens the bile flow.

All right, you're nailing it, Chris. When people think of bile, it's like, oh, I basically was puking, and I had some green stuff, and that's all we know about it. But it's necessary to neutralize ph of stomach acid. It's necessary to break fats into tiny little globules that can be absorbed throughout the body. And when your bile system is optimized for you to preserve bile because it's hard to make bile, that means you'll absorb those toxins more. And this is a major part of what I write about is like, look, guys, if you're optimized for famines, you'll recirculate your bile better. You save it. Unfortunately, it's like used motor oil. It's full of all that stuff that makes it turn black. So we've got to be able to make more of it and dump more of it out. And to your point, and where a lot of your work is, is how do you process the toxins? So when they get into the bile, they're already detoxified as much as you can, and you can clean it out. So it's kind of a complex system. But this is. It's like one of the types of changing the oil filter in the body that you really would want to do. All right, so tell me, how do I turn up bile flow? How do I get more bile manufactured?

Yeah, so. So we want to get more bile moving out of the liver, and then we want to bind bile in the GI tract and bind all the toxins in the GI tract. So how do we increase bile flow out of the liver? And then one of the things we want to do is bind it in the GI So we're binding not just bile, but toxins in the G.I. all right, so moving bioflow. So we want it stimulate bile flow with things like bitters. So traditional bitters like gentian. One that I use a lot is myrrh, dandelion. All those bitter flavors that they have in the cocktail bitters, we also have in medicinal flavors.

Okay, I have a question for you. Is the feeling I have towards mandates, does that count as a source of bitterness?

You know, it doesn't. That kind of bitterness, you know, I think because it comes with all this sympathetic stress, like when we want to kill things, then it actually blocks are bile. So it's like a bitter anti bidder.

So biological bidders. Unfortunately, sociological and government overreach. Bitters don't count?

No, those kind of bitters actually put you into sympathetic stress because that's actually one of the breaking points of bile flow and biologics, the biologics that we want. So bitter compounds are one of them phosphatidylcholine. So phosphatidylcholine is always being donated from the cell membranes in the the hepatocyte into the bile flow to keep the bile flow fluid. You'll hear talk. People talk about sludgy bile and sludgy gallbladder. That's not enough PC. So bile, I'm sorry, bitters and PC are going to keep these things moving and we're going to use those in detox protocols. But then when they get down to the GI tract, we're going to use a bunch of binders, things like charcoal, zeolites, chitosan. If you're using prescriptions, it would be cholestyramine. And welcome to. And then the one that we made specifically metals is imd, Intestinal Metal detox, which is a thio functionalized silica. So get the toxins in the bile moving and then trap them in the gi.

Let's pause for one second there. The kind of toxins that we're talking about here, I'm going to walk through my map of toxins and I want you to poke holes in the map or bless it so that we're using the same languages so all of our listeners know what we're talking about. You have exogenous toxins from outside the body, which would be metals, they'd be chemicals, and they'd be things like mycotoxins or foodborne toxins of any sort. And then you have endotoxins which are made on board usually by gut bacteria. Lipopolysaccharide, which I keep talking about is one of those things with leaky gut that would be like the biggest internal source as well as maybe onboard infections you could count as is that the universe of toxins?

Yeah, I mean, that's the general universe of toxins. But then we're going to add to them. Endotoxin is going to come in as, like, the Darth Vader of this whole thing. So you've got the environmental toxins and then endogenous toxins. And so I'm going to add to your endogenous toxins first take your endotoxin. So endotoxin are parts of bacteria. So as bacteria die and break down, parts of their cell membranes get absorbed across leaky gut barriers. Now, they also get absorbed across your oral cavity when you have periodontitis or when you have urinary tract infections. These are all large sources of endotoxin, and it's also called lipopolysaccharide. I kind of like lipopolysaccharide more because endotoxin sort of implies that we're making it endogenously, but it's the bacteria parts, and the bacteria parts are getting in. And the problem there is that the immune system sees those parts and as actual bacteria and it recognizes their chemistry and it sounds the inflammatory alarm to try to kill them. And the inflammatory alarm is a pro oxidant alarm. It is making superoxide hypochlorous acid, things like bleach, and it's trying to go kill them. So it turns a peroxidant activity and turns down antioxidant activity. Now, the problem is all the detoxification reactions are part of your antioxidant system. Glutathione, superoxide dismutase, all the antioxidant enzymes, all the detox enzymes, all those are turned down when you turn up that inflammatory alarm because the endotoxin is up. All right, now, there's a couple things that come from that. When that happens, that happens at a systemic level and a cellular level. So say at a cellular level, you have, let's say on a scale of 1 to 10, 5 toxin units of cellular toxin, of mix of metals and pesticides and mold toxins. And you're doing okay with that because your antioxidant system is running at an 8.

Let me pause you for one second. I mean, you and I both lecture at the American Academy of Anti Aging Medicine, all that stuff. What percentage of people listening to this would you imagine have meaningful amounts of metals or molds or these other toxins you're talking about?

Everybody's got a meaningful amount. Everybody on this podcast is sitting at like a three to a five. But, yeah, there you go.

Okay, that's important. Everyone listening. Even if you feel okay, this stuff builds up because of the world we built, just flat out.

But then so many people will come to me, you know, and they're biohackers and this and that. They're like, oh my God, I did some testing and I'm way up here because I started eating Paleo and I'm eating all this tuna. I've got all this mercury, or my house had a flood and I've got all these mold toxins, or I live in the Central Valley of California and I've got all these pesticides. I'm down in Orange county and I've got all these, you know, gasoline chemicals. So people can have surprisingly high up amounts even when they're eating good. But then you go back to this story of your relative detoxification rate at a cellular level. So you've got a 5 toxicity and an 8 detox level. So everything's fine because your detoxification is exceeding your toxification. But then the endotoxin comes in and it takes your eight down to a three. And now at a cellular level, your ability to resist the five is down to a three and boom, it hits you. And all of a sudden everything falls apart. So this happens when people start getting infections and bad oral health and GI health, then stuff they were handling before they can't handle anymore. And then when we get to talking about hormones because we're going to talk about longevity. A lot of these triggers for detox like you And I know, NRF2 turns that detox system up. But NRF2 has a CO regulator called the PXR, the pregnanex receptor, that's regulated by pregnenolone and progesterone. So how many 45 year old, 50 year old women do you know who all of a sudden are super toxic from their amalgams from their environment, blah, blah, blah, because hormones can bring your eight down to a three too.

Well, you actually hit the most important longevity thing you could have talked about, which is if you have a highly resilient system where your detox ability is a tail 10 and your toxin intake and toxin onboard production is A1, you can get in a car accident and have someone poor Ebola on you and you'll probably live. You might not like it, but you'll probably live. And not dying is anti aging last time I checked, right? So if you're walking around though, and you're like, oh, I feel fine, you know, I met a six detox and a five tox, you're walking around the edge, but you feel just fine, right? And then you're easy to kill. And I want to build a world full of people who are really hard.

To kill, really hard. And that resilience is the biggest thing for me. And this whole idea of this longevity wheel that we've created, everything is about creating resilience. And as we get into all these little things that go along with detox and we get into more endogenous toxemia, all that stuff produces resilience. All right, so, so endotoxin does that, a cellular level, but that's the main culprit for doing it at a liver level, for stopping that transit of the toxins out into the bile. And so when the endotoxin is high, it's hard to get anything done on a detox level. That's why you have to clear your gut.

It's actually kind of funny if you learn to think like a computer or especially a network engineer. There's a whole bunch of interrelated systems and if one of them is broken, it'll have an effect on the other. But when you look at detox pathways, you look at aging. It's a very similar mindset, way more so than you would think. Even though humans are clearly not meat robots and we're not meat computers and our brains don't process information like a computer. But the idea of managing a complex system instead of a single thing, it is, it's important. And that means you have to have models to do it. That's how I would teach engineering when I taught network engineering classes. And one of the things, one of the reasons I wanted to have you on the show is that you have your longevity wheel here, which is a really cool way of looking at aging and longevity. Most people who are listening have heard of, or maybe even read Superhuman, which was my big anti aging book. And I think there's a great, a great synergy between your longevity wheel. It's quicksilverscientific.com longevity wheel. And do you have a better URL for it? It's, it's a freebie thing, but it's a freebie thing.

I, I, that's really the best one right now. I think there's.

All right, well, no one's going to remember that. Just go to quicksilverscientific.com and just look.

For the longevity wheel. Yeah, yeah. And you'll see this six part thing in there and, you know, sort of three of it starts at the top. It's NRF2 and AMPK which is what we're talking about. It's detox, and it's detox and metabolism, and then it goes to nad, then sirtuins, then telomeres, then senolytics or senescent cells, and then neuroendocrine. And really, three of these are defense and cleanup. And that's NRF2AMPK, telomeres and senolytics. And three of them are called charging up the system, which is nad, sirtuins, and. And the neuroendocrine. And, you know, I put the detox at the head of it, because when you're all messed up, if you've got a high toxic load, if you've got a high endotoxin load, then none of this other stuff can happen.

I almost want you to repeat that. You don't have to, but the. The idea that. That's so weird. If I have a toxin that prevents my cells from doing the repair and detox they're supposed to do, nothing will work very well. So what's the point of trying to get stronger and extend life if the basic things aren't working? If you put a stick in your spokes and you're saying, I'm going to pedal harder, it doesn't matter how hard you pedal. It's just not going to work until you pull the stick out. And so much of aging is pulling the stick out to let the body do what it's supposed to do and then becoming stronger. And I feel like you're one of the few guys who's really got that algorithm down because you started out looking at environmental medicine and detox pathways, and. And when you see the effect on aging, it's profound. And so you put that right at the top of your aging model instead of somewhere in there, which is. It's really cool.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I was. You know, it's funny because, you know, you start in detox, and then, you know, you're at a 4M and people are talking about these other things, and you're like, well, I want to get into some of the sexier things. And then you get into them, and you see they're all predicated on detox. And so, you know, you're wondering about senescent cells. Well, how they get senescent cells because of toxins, you know, telomeres. What damages telomeres? Toxins. What repairs telomeres? Having a high glutathione and a highly reduced glutathione level. You know, what are the things that, you know, we think about senescent cells and they're spreading all this energy of zombie like senescence. Well, you can either kill them or you can reverse them. Addison senescence. And you do that by what, cleaning up the cellular terrain. And they come out of senescence. And even when you kill them, you're killing them with the same things that you're using to upregulate NRF2. So it really all becomes predicated there. And I started with NRF2, the detox stuff, and then I started getting the AMPK around fasting and keto and you see those are totally overlapped. And that was where I was going to say there's one more class of toxins. And they are endogenous toxins. But it's old worn out mitochondria, old worn out Golgi apparatus, the cellular organelles. It's accumulation of misfolded proteins. And these are all things that build up in the cell and they become massive inflammatory and cellular down regulatory. They take you down a bad path. And how do you fix them? By autophagy, by activating AMPK, which is almost a cofactor with NRF2. They work totally together. And then that clears out old accumulations of proteins that get into the mitochondria and damage the mitochondria or the held in lysosomes are damaging everything in the cell. And they clear all that stuff out and they make way for making new mitochondria and higher density of mitochondria that comes with the sirtuin stuff. So AMPK and NRF2 are step one. But then to really get that, you know, codified into more better mitochondria, then you need sirtuins to come on top of that. And for that you need nad. So they're secondary after the cleanup of the environmental toxins and after the cleanup of the bad cell parts and the protein accumulations.

Deborah from the upgrade collective here, my mentorship group. Our live audience is asking, do you have to follow the longevity wheel in order here or. It seems like it's a framework. You would kind of do it all at once. How does that work?

In order is first to do detox and then work on, interleave that with AMPK and then nad, sirtuins and neuroendocrine stuff. And so that's when we did this three month program with the age clocks. We did a month with this. What is our detox regimen? Our basic one push catch liver detox. So that's liver sauce that activates cellular NRF2, activates bile flow and activates some AMPK so that toxins move out, they move through the liver, and then a half hour later, you come in with your binders. So you just do that a couple times a day. Then the next month, you move to a slightly different liposome set that's more AMPK dominant. So you're moving more fat out, you're doing more autophagy, and then you're adding a lot of NAD boosters. And then after that, you graduate.

So it's a. It's a very logical approach that says maybe you should take out the trash before you remodel. I mean, it's shocking.

And even in the cell, you know, it's like with the unfolded protein response, you know, you're making little. I always call, like, proteins are like little origami swans. Yeah. You make this long thread of peptides, then you got to fold it all up intricately and perfectly, and like a whole bunch of them are like, oh, well, that's good. Hold on. Throw that in the corner. Make another one. It's like a writer, you know, and. And they build up. And if you don't clear those out, you clear those out during fasting and exercise and all the things that raise AMPK activity. That's when you clear those up. And if you don't clear them up and they get so full in the cell that they make themselves cleared up, you usually end up killing the cell.

It's funny, in the model of aging that I use as a framework for Superhuman and. And two of the seven pillars of aging were intracellular and extracellular junk buildup, and you just nailed those. But calling them a toxin is really smart. And you also mentioned a study you did that I wanted to mention because you validated it with trudiagnostic. And the founder of True Diagnostic was just on the show Ryan was on. And you also worked with a serum biomarker lab. I'm trying to say its name. Ginfinity. So you actually tested your protocol. So people were doing. This is a 60 day protocol.

It was. It was 90 day protocol.

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Yeah, yeah. And so we, we doing that push catch the second we were still doing push catch but more with this amp move and some, some NAD boosters and the third month was more NAD boosters and we were, we were able to reverse the biological aging. We used a couple of the age clocks, the original Horvath clock, the new Dunedin poem. I don't know who names these things, but it's called Dunedin poem.

This is why scientists shouldn't do marketing. I'm just saying.

Yes, exactly, exactly. And you know, there was thousands of shifts. You know there was 6,000 genes became more methylated, 3,4000 became less methylated. All this change around in all these gene structures. And the reality is we're just getting to know these things and how these things all work. But the markers went the right direction and we had a lot of change which was interesting in some of the immune cell subsets. So monocytes, natural killer cells, beta cells all had these positive correlations. And that's one of the nicest things. We're all in this immune problem right now, right? So we got this global immune fear. Well, turns out immune integrity is tightly linked into your toxin load. It's tightly linked into your glutathione levels. Because as glutathione levels go down, your immune cells, they shift from this TH1, this ability to go in and kill things over into this sort of reckless inflammation called Th2 and Th17. So as toxins come in, a high load are lowering glutathione, that's shifting your immune cells. And then ampk. So we talked A little bit autophagy. And autophagy during AMPK activation will take, like, an old mitochondria that's beat up, and it'll kill it, dissolve it, and release all those. All the basic constituents for making new ones. Well, it turns out that's what you do with viruses, bacteria, parasites. You pull them in, you tuck them into an autophagous, which is this little liposome that you put all these dead parts in and break it all down in, and you break the pathogen down, and then you let your immune system taste the pieces of it and make antibodies to it. So NRF2 detox, AMPK internal detox, or biological detox all relate into immunity. So when you work on those, you strengthen your immune system.

So how much aging did you fix in your study?

I don't know. We just got the results back, and I don't know, they have to go and they have to. You know, this stuff is really new, and so it's like. Yeah, I mean, it's very cool, but we had these huge correlation. You know, really low, small correlation coefficients mean high, high significance. And so there was this big change. Then you get into the. The serum markers, and I just got to tell you, we're a little early in on the serum markers. You know, like a year ago, nobody had any of them. People were working with serum nad and they spent all this time. And Naty Brady and Sinclair and all these guys, and they were like, guess what? Serum NAD doesn't mean shit. You know, it actually does, but only because it's. NAD is an intracellular marker, and it being on the outside at all, it is like a cell danger signal. So it's. Having it on the outside is a little bit of a stimulation to your immune system, but it doesn't mean anything for your intracellular NAD levels. And, you know, we'd started this, and the guy had just come out with this whole blood NAD that he was all excited about, and. And we did the pre and we did the post, and then he's like, oh, the pre's are all no good. I'm like, well, that's. Oh, my God. How much money did he give you? And the sirtuin data is starting something good. And there was something with the serum NAD and the sirtuin, but we're still pulling that all apart. We did see, you know, there's this. This group, and according to the serum nad, you know, if you were on one side of this, then you saw sirtuins go up and inflammation going down. During this study, and another wing, we're not as responsive, so we're still taking that all apart. But, you know, it's like we kind of need another year on these markers and know, are we running these on white blood cells? Are we running them on red blood cells? Are we going to do a brain biopsy? You know, we need, we need something a little better there.

It, it's funny. So we've got, you know, you're here with quicksilver looking at detox pathways. We know from abundant observations that when people have less toxins and when people detox better that they die less, therefore they live, they live better. And we have some interesting evidence that they probably live longer. So, you know, we've got your, your quicksilver mindset there, and you and I are very much aligned on that. And then we also just had true diagnostics on the show. Who ran the labs for you? But the, the reality here is something I learned in business school. So I'm going to Wharton. And I'm not a finance guy. I'm a creator engineering, computer marketing guy. Maybe I'm good at explaining stuff. And they made me do these horrible finance classes that I still have nightmares about. But what I learned ultimately was that you can make the numbers. Say whatever you want in finance, you want it to be profitable, just run it through this lens. There's 24 different ways to look at these numbers and say, you're making money, you're losing money, you're doing this, you're not doing that. And you can get a group of professionals in a room with 20 years of CPAs, and they'll all argue over the same basic thing and look at it differently. So that's where we are there. That's where we have generally accepted accounting principles and all this stuff in business. When it comes to aging and people say, how many years did you lose? Let me just be abundantly clear. What did you want the answer to be? Because I can find the data in your numbers somewhere to support whatever you want the number to be. So I very much respect the science that true diagnostics is doing. And if you go back five or six years, oh, my telomeres and my blood are looking good. Yeah, those bounce all over the place. It's probably not that reliable, right? So we're learning, we're putting it all together, and I don't think we're ever going to be able to say you actually are really 12 years younger. What we're going to be able to say is you have a combination of things in your System that looks about 12 years younger. If you believe in this set of things. If you believe in this set of things, you're 13 years younger and it's okay. We don't know, but we know it's better than it was. And that's the constant movement in the right direction.

Exactly. The different age clocks. There was one that went the wrong way. I mean they got like six very variations on the same stuff. And it's like, well, I'll talk about the good ones, this one, nobody likes that one anyways. And, and then I was, that's what I was hoping for, the serum markets. But then you talk to the people, they're like, we feel freaking great, you know, and that's when you get people's eyes open, they're thinking clear, their energy is strong, you know, you're moving them in the right direction. You know, when you're foggy, tired, looking for your words, you know, that's no good. I mean, it's really obvious.

It's funny how you feel when you wake up and whether you can remember things when you want to. Those are pretty important. And if, if you just tracked those on a daily basis, maybe plus heart rate variability, you probably could have a really good aging calculator that says are you younger or older?

Yeah, I totally bet you could.

One of the things I'm most interested in from that perspective is called P300D, which is one of the things that we look at with at 40 years of Zen. It's how quickly does your brain respond to an environmental input before you can think about it. And it's when you see a spike of electrical activity. And it's supposed to get longer and longer as you age. So it's going to be between about a quarter second and about a third of a second. It's so weird. I have the average. It's not cognitive processing, it's awareness. Because processing requires you to get the data and then do something with it. This is just how quickly can you get the data? So there's a. When I say something, you're hearing it in your conscious brain. About a quarter second after I said it, there's a built in time delay and I'm kind of simplifying it there, but basically I'm saying it, it's hitting you. But by the time your brain does something to know that it's got it, it's there. So what I ended up doing is testing mine and I have the average response time in my brain of a 20 year old, even though I'm 48. So, guys, I'm. Let's see. I'm 28 years younger, and I can legitimately say that because my brain works that way.

Right.

But I don't think it would be valid. But you can't say there's performance and there's systems things, but it's how you feel. And detoxing makes people feel like crap if they do it too quickly or the wrong way, and it makes them feel amazing when they're done with it.

Yeah, and it's also, you know, remember that story about the hepatocytes? So when you can't move the bile through, it dumps back into the blood. And that's what happens to people. They take one supplement, like, say, lipoic acid, turns up the cell's ability to dump into the blood, but it's doing nothing for the ability to move through the liver, and it's doing nothing to bind. And so this is what we found. I mean, you remember years ago, you and I Talked@Autism1. You know, you were sort of on the rise at Bulletproof. And I was just figuring out how to do this by working on autistic kids to the hardest group to do. And that was where we learned we had to couple the bile flow to the cellular detox and then couple that to the binders. And then the one other thing we needed to add in, and we were doing it right about then, was CBD to stop the neuroinflammation. And so, you know, we talked about endotoxin blocking the flow of bile, but we got to talk about the other stuff that goes into that. All right, so one, we talk about bad detox there. So bad detox is we push it out of the cells, but we don't process it through the liver and bind it in the gi. All right, so we got to put those two in. So, again, what blocks that movement out of the hepatocyte into the bile? So we talked about inflammation. Now we can also talk about just stress. And let's bring in hormones, too. All right, so estrogen excess will block that just the same way that endotoxin does.

Okay, let me ask this. Is estrogen a toxin?

Estrogen on its own could be a toxin, yes.

It can be, yes.

You know, we've all been there. You've been there.

Well, I mean, it's not politically correct to say that, but estrogen is. It's not good for you. Right. And it's. Of course, if you're a woman, you need to have a certain amount of it. But a little bit extra will trash you. And if you're a guy, you need very little of it. And the more you have, the worse your biology works.

Yeah. And so in the now go to the brain. So what does estrogen do in the brain? So in the brain we have on an autonomic level, we have sympathetic and parasympathetic in our whole system. And so sympathetic is fight or flight. Parasympathetic is rest, digest, repair, regenerate, detoxify. We measure that by heart rate variability and things like that. That's the autonomic nervous system. Now in the central nervous system we have two neurotransmitters that go with that. We have glutamate being the fight or flight sympathetic one, but it's also memory and being sharp and stuff. We need glutamate, but too much winds up anxiety and irritability. Gaba on the other hand, is our Zen neurotransmitter and that's calming us down and that's feeding, digestion and all these things. So there's go and there's calm. Now what does estrogen do? It winds up the glutamate receptors so they hyper fire. And what does that do in the absence of a counterbalance? Makes you irritable and anxious and makes you sympathetic dominant and locks your bile flow. In fact, all sympathetic dominant and fight or flight blocks your bile flow. And the antidote for that is progesterone. And progesterone, when it goes to the brain, it amplifies the GABA receptors. So you've got that hormone thing going on between those two right there. So any stress will tend to lock things up and any calming will tend to open things up. And interestingly, if you taste progesterone, it's super, super bitter. It's opening up the liver. So progesterone is wonderful for opening up the bitter and for using with all these bitter herbs. And why are we talking more about women? Well, women get more cholestasis than men. They have more gallbladder removals than men. They have more of a problem there. So there are all these things that block detox as being all stressed out.

In fact, do you know Dr. Michael Platt? No. He was on this show somewhere in the 600s and he had 40 years of medical practice, board certified internal medicine guy. And you could basically say, I have this. And before you could finish what the problem was, you just say progesterone. And the whole episode is fascinating. He's like, here's what progesterone Does. Oh, you have muscle tension. Put some progesterone in there, it goes away. It's kind of a magic thing.

No, it really is magic. And it's magic for men, too, for sleep, for relaxation. In fact, we're releasing our female hormone system. We have a complete female bioidentical replacement therapy over the counter that's based on a nano DHEA and then a topical nanoprogesterone.

I was going to ask you, I was going to ask you about that because several people in the Upgrade collective are saying, what's the take on this? So this is over the counter hormone replacement by going upstream from where the pharmaceuticals are. So tell me what you're doing for women's hormone replacement.

Yeah, this has been awesome. And I developed this years ago, but I had to get some patents in on it because of the. We're going to do testosterone through the compounding pharmacy. So I had to get that all in and that put off release. But I've had a couple people on it for two years. So on one side we have dhea, the product's called DHEA Plus Female Hormone Tonic. And then the other side we have progesterone plus replenishing serum. So progesterone you have to do topical as an otc. So we did a nano serum there topical. So this morning I was kind of pissed off and being a bit of a prick, and so I did a little bit of that topical. It calmed me down. Now, how do these systems work? So the data plus is DHEA in the nanoparticle. Now, what that means is when you take a capsule of DHEA as it's getting absorbed, or while it goes to the liver, it becomes DHEA sulfate, which is what you circulate around. But in a nanoparticle, it goes in right through the oral cavity and right in the upper gi, it's just absorbing right in as raw dhea. And raw DHEA is what, what transforms into estrogen and testosterone. So when you take this dhea, it immediately fills up estrogen and testosterone and preferentially through testosterone because we couple with it. Chrysan, the aromatase inhibitor Chrysan is very similar to the story of dhea. Chrysin was known as this aromatase inhibitor in cell cultures, but when you take it orally, it's sulfates or glucuronidates as you absorb. It doesn't work very well as an arabitase inhibitor, but in a nanoparticle it does. So the combination of the DHEA and nanoparticle in the chrysanthemum is leading. After you take it, you get high levels of dhea, high levels of testosterone and moderate levels of estrogen. Then we add also dim in with it to make sure that your estrogen metabolites are going into the two hydroxy pool. And we add with it also specific adaptogens. We do fermented Korean ginseng, maca and dong quai. So that's all to control where all of these things go. So that right there is going to fill up dhea, testosterone, estrogen, and we have nanopregninolo in there that handles all of that.

All right, I'm going to pause you for a second here just because I have some questions about this. DHEA and pregnenolone are the mother hormones. All your other hormones are made out of those two things. And you can buy DHEA over the counter and as you mentioned, people take it, it turns into DHEA sulfate. And I first heard about DHEA when I was about 17 and I said, oh, that sounds like an interesting thing. And yeah, because I've been a vitamin nerd, mostly because my biology didn't work very well, so I'm always interested. And I tried DHEA and as a 17 year old you shouldn't lose your libido. But within two days of taking it, I'm like, that's weird. So I didn't take it for years and even now my DHEA tests low. But if I take any form of DHEA that I've, that I've tried, my, my labs will go up, but it has the same effect and I basically, I'll grow boobs from it. So clearly I'm turning DHEA into estrogen. So I've always told people you should get your labs before you do dhea, but what you do, what I love about your work is like, no, it's about the delivery system. So if you get the right thing to the right place at the right time, it does something different. So your nano dhea, when it's paired with these well known things like Chris and the adaptogens, does that mean that it's going to go in the right direction? And I'm not a female, but I mean, is there a DHA coming in?

Less of it. Yeah, we've run a bunch of labs and less of it goes into estimate estrogen and you need to keep a certain amount of estrogen. You know, women without estrogen will lose all their libido, they'll have vaginal dryness, they'll have thinning of the skin and a lot of these aging markers, it's just about having the right amount. So you get this moderate amount of estrogen. The testosterone goes to the high end of the natural ranges, like, you know, in the 50 to 80 range, depending upon the person. And the DHEA runs kind of super physiologically, sort of 500 to 700, which is fine for DHEA, because DHEA has all these metabolic effects. You know, it affects both estrogen and androgen receptors, and it does all these different good things for you. So pairing it. And we went through pairing it with different things, like different adaptogens in there, and it had different effects. And when we got the right amount of adaptogens, we got all the great effects, in fact, because like ginseng will increase your. It'll increase the hormone receptors, so your estrogen and androgen receptors actually go up. So for a given amount of hormones, you get more hormone activity. And that's sort of one of the X factors that we have to get to understand because we can measure serum levels, but we can't measure receptor levels. So what modulates the receptor level? So we tried a couple of different formulations along with the dha, and we found this really sweet spot where women's power goes up. Their libido goes way up, Their energy, their concentration, all that's in there. And then all you gotta do is have the right amount of progesterone to chill the thing out. And that's the nanotopical progesterone.

Wow. All right, I'm gonna try your progesterone. I'm assuming that you can use progesterone, your formula versus whatever is out there. So when should a man use testosterone? Sorry, Testosterone. When should a man use progesterone versus a use progesterone?

Well, you're going to use it whenever you're irritable, if you're snappy, if you're not sleeping well. And a lot of doctors give men progesterone when they need sleep. So it's any of those too much go button, not enough calm, then you bring in the progesterone. And if you take a lot of testosterone, especially if you keep your estrogen kind of low, progesterone is a great moderator to that, to make you a little bit more compassionate, a little bit softer, without any of the feminization and none of the gynecomastia. In fact, some of the doctors give. If they're given a lot of testosterone, they'll give progesterone with it. And there's Data on it increasing erectile function.

Oh, that's interesting. I guess you just have to rub the cream in the right way and that solves the problem.

Yeah, yeah, you totally didn't. That's it. I'm sorry. I totally missed that for a second. Rapid and vigorous rubbing.

I take you right out of science mode into seventh grade mode, just like that. There's a couple of questions from our audience here. The question from Robin was, can you take too much progesterone?

Yeah. Well, look at the two. So on the dhea, you have the more go hormone switches, dhea, estrogen and testosterone. And on progesterone, you have the slowdown switches. So fortunately, you can judge a lot of that by your mood and your temperament and your sleep. So if there's not enough sleep, more progesterone. If there's snappiness or anxiety, more progesterone. If you're too tired and slow sleeping a lot, you're not really sharp, maybe back off on the progesterone, turn up the other side. But progesterone, like estrogen, Dave and I talk about really keeping that in a zone. Progesterone's much more forgiving. And one of the things that you'll see when you look at the hormone declines over time is in women, progesterone declined precipitously after about 35, and estrogen declines more slowly. So sort of in the 30s and 40s, you're in this mild estrogen dominance, and eventually they're both in the toilet. And so, so during that time frame, sort of 35, as you go into perimenopause around 45, progesterone's always welcome on board. And like I said for detox, it's hitting the pregnant X receptor and enabling NRF2, which is your master switch, to turn up all your detox. So I believe in a lot of progesterone use. You know, the general instructions are take this, you know, before bed because it makes you a little bit more tired.

Take.

But anytime you're amped up and you need to be a little bit more balanced, some progesterone on board gives you that balance.

All right. This is the second time we've really gone deep on progesterone, and using it on occasion is fine, and using it regularly before bed is fine. And I will say that using it when you have just a lot of muscle tension for whatever reason, yeah, you should have your magnesium and your electrolytes and all that kind of stuff. But if there's a knot that doesn't want to go away. And you put some of that on. It does seem to help. It works directly right there. And I think your nano formula, which I'm pretty excited to give it a try to and it is your female hormone products. Can I take that? I mean it. Aromatase inhibitors, adaptogens, there's nothing in there that's going to be feminizing. So I could try the female stuff.

I would keep it low because here's the thing and that's where I'm trying to dial this in. For men, the nano DHEA becomes estrogen very quickly.

Okay.

And the aromatase inhibitors is, is slowing that down. But the arabatase inhibitor, the chrysanthemum metabolizes quickly. It's out of the body in two hours and the DHA persists. So I actually recently, because I kind of stimulated a whole bunch of stuff. I was trying to do a little adrenal reset. I was injecting some amniotic fluid and growth hormone and my dantian and that turned up everything and I had to chase that with every hormone under, under the sun to like get the body all up with all of those signals. I just gave it and so I was taking it. So I'm trying to dial that in. I would, you know, maybe take like an eighth of a teaspoon of that because you, you, you kind of turn these things over very quickly. And the estrogens. But I think that the progesterone is going to be a really good thing for you. And as I get all the data and figure out how to use this with men, I'll let you know.

Okay, that makes great sense. And there are questions coming in from the Upgrade collective about would this replace hormone replacement therapy for women.

Yeah. So there's two ways to do it. I've had a number of. I have a lot of circum 50 year old women here. You know that I have about 100, little less than 100 employees. Thank God I'm a little less than 100 for.

You know why it's easy to have two companies? What you do is you just do a process of a cell mitosis. And I have two companies that each have to move.

That's my manufacturing company and my sales company. Shocking. But right now I don't have to divide my cell. So I've had a number of people on this for two years without any other hormone inputs. And they're postmenopausal and they love, love, love, love, love it. And, and so you can do that or you can use it as your DHEA source on top of doing some other bioidentical hormone replacement therapy. But then you probably only need about a quarter teaspoon, but the full teaspoon is 100 milligrams of DHEA and it fills everything up. And so there's a couple different ways to use it, but we've seen it completely replace BHRT and we do have links. The one thing you talked about testing, we have a link on our site when it goes up to Life Extensions hormone panels. Life Extension has great hormone panels. There's a 75 panel where you can look at the big four DHEA, estrogen, testosterone and progesterone. And you can make sure you can do it before you can take this stuff. And you can monitor yourself every couple of months.

That's the most important thing. I was going to say it, but you beat me to it. If you're working with a doctor and you're already on bioidentical hormone replacement, male or female, and you decide to do DHEA and very especially this amazing DHEA formula that Chris has put together for Quicksilver, you want to know what are your hormones now and what do they look like after you've done it for a while to see if you need more or less. And the good news is that if you are taking replacement hormones, which I've done since I was 26 because my hormones were so jacked up, what you end up doing is your body will self regulate. So that means if you take something that can convert into, say, testosterone, well, then the body is unlikely to convert it into testosterone if you have enough of it. It's still though worth getting your numbers so that, you know, if you're pushing things in the wrong direction. And it's not that expensive to do it anymore.

No, it's not. And you know, what we've seen over two years is that people go up to their level and to stay there for two years, you take them off, they go back down and they're like, oh, wait, where did it all go? You bring them up and they stay there. So it's nice and steady. But some women, you know, they might have some influence that's driving them into making too much estrogen and they're going to want to look at that. And if they have a really tricky system, then they're going to want to work with a doctor. Now the other use of all this is when you just have adrenal fatigue, if you have burnout, you blow the whole system out. Your DHEA goes down, everything goes down. And you can use this to fill the system back up. As long as you're not using it just as a crutch to just keep going at a million miles an hour. As long as you're addressing the sources of your burnout, you're doing your detox, you can use this to fill yourself up. And in fact, I didn't realize how many people Dave and I are kind of the end of the metals era, the beginning of the plastics and molds era, and, and I didn't realize how many young women were hormone dysregulated.

Oh, it's, it's huge problem, man. It's like, it's nuts because of all this weird stuff like the weird diets and plastic and BPA and I mean it's a, it's a soup out there.

Yeah, I just went to this event. Joe distefano runs Arunga and, and, and I was expecting to talk to some of the 50 year old women about this, but I had three women between 25 and 40 years old that had stopped cycling totally. And everything was all messed up and it was from exposures and stuff. And I was like, oh, wow. And so put them on full detox protocols, but talk to them about using the hormones to support the system as they're getting everything out. Because remember, the hormones are necessary for all the detox reactions. And so whether it's just adrenal burnout or some sort of toxin overload that's blowing at your hormone system, you can use this when you're younger to support the hormone system while you're resetting, or all through that 30s to 50s, you know, just bringing it up a little higher with maybe, you know, an eighth of a dose, a quarter of a dose, of a half of a dose, whatever you need to run at, you know, full level.

Beautiful. I love how you go into detail about how to dose this stuff because, because it's important. These things are way more powerful than what you're going to find if you go to the store and get some, whatever stuff you would smear on. These are, I would call them military grade delivery systems. You can just drop a bomb somewhere or you can have a missile that says, I'm going to go in and take out the building that I needed to take out. And that's how you've always thought about it. I'm a huge fan of liposomes and micelles, all the different things that you work with in order to get it in, but you've done something Else I want to make sure that I get to pick your brain about because you and I are both. We're going to live longer than we're supposed to, kind of. Guys, I've spoken about this, but not really. Since I wrote Superhuman, my big anti aging book about two years ago, I spent easily $10,000 on taking, I'll say, mega doses of something called a cyclocycloastrageenol and astragaloside. These are very expensive extracts of hundreds and hundreds of pounds of astragalus, and they're shown to lengthen telomeres. What you've done, though, for longevity is something that I'm really excited to be using and I want to know what I'm supposed to be feeling. But your longevity elite, you actually made nanoparticles because, frankly, I never got any noticeable or quantifiable benefits from taking. It was at least $1,000. Actually, it was more than 10 grand I spent. So it was at least $1,000 a month. And I did it for like two or three years. I didn't want to think about how much I spent on that. I want to know what results are you seeing and what results should I feel? I mean, I'm just starting to take it. But what happens there?

That's one that powers up the system big time. So there's some pregnenolone in there. There's the fermented Korean ginseng, some Hoshou Wu, you know, so a classic Chinese. And then those, those pure astragalocytes, astragaloside 4 and cycloestragonal. When I started putting astragaloside 4 in, and I almost like that one better from how it makes me feel into some nanoparticles. It was like an immediate fill the adrenal thing. And it was only. And I found that it works for regenerating kidney function. There's papers on all that. And I believe that's because of its ability to upregulate. Clotho K L O T H O and Clotho is this regenerative compound that you're making your kidneys and your brain. And it affects kidney function, brain function, and cardiovascular function. And so the Astragaloside 4 I noticed fix my adrenal fatigue when I was traveling too much. And I really like that. And I love all those Clotho things. And then the cycloestragonal has all the data around lengthening of telomeres. So we put those two in there. And now we're going to set about. We haven't done a lot of testing around it. We did some of this serum Clotho, but nobody knows where to measure Clotho. You know, it's probably, is it in the white blood cells, the red blood cells? It's going to take a while until we know even what to measure. And if I measure telomeres and administer cyclonol and measure them again, I'm violating a TA65 patch. So I'm a little bit, I'm a little bit trying to figure out how to test all this stuff out.

Having a patent on testing is actually something that just needs to be banned. You should be able to measure anything you want, but there's an algorithm to interpret the data. That might be different. But it's interesting. If you look back in Superhuman, I had several pages on Quotho and Jim Plant probably knows the most about that of anyone on the planet because he's trying to make Clotho and he's a friend of mine who got me into it several years ago. It's one of the preeminent anti aging proteins that no one knows how to manipulate yet. But if you can show that you're raising Clotho levels with Longevity Elite, that's legit.

I would love to talk to Jim and say, should this be PBMCs, which are, you know, white blood cells. And for readers out there or listeners, the reason you don't measure red blood cells is red blood cells aren't even freaking cells. They have no nucleus, they have no mitochondria, they're an oxygen transport system. And sometimes there's some things in there that are valid, sometimes there aren't. And then serum often like nad. NAD is not supposed to be in serum. It's not in there. And so measuring it in serum is a totally different, like it's measuring something totally different. It's not measuring NAD levels. Ampk. You know, there was, you know, in this study we had AMPK levels. Then I asked the guy later, should we have done that in serum? He goes, oh no, I don't think it means anything. I'm like, well, why'd we do it? And so a lot of these things, you know, they got to be biopsies and stuff like that. So I'd love to talk to Jim about where we measure it and then we can do, do the dosing and, and remeasure it. But for to, to finish up on the Longevity Elite, you should feel your energy go up. A lot of older guys feel libido go up and you know, it's just A big powering up of the system adrenals. I mean there was, there was one of the people that came into a naturopath that works for me. He's a big one remedy guy. And this woman came up after her father died. She dealt with all the funeral and all this. It all came out of nowhere. She was a disaster, just a shell. And he gave her one thing. Longevity elite. Comes in 30 days later, she's a new woman. She calls, says this stuff is liquid gold. Because of that, you know, you got the pregnenolone, the mother hormone, you got all the, all the mitochondria. You know, we don't realize that these really good adaptogens are mitochondrial enhancers. We got adrenal enhancing, we got the stress response, you know, controlling quarters cortisol. We're increasing hormone receptor density. And so there was so much in there that just boosted up the system. And that's where the powering up comes in. It reminds me a lot of the old words about ginseng is that it helps ameliorate fear and stress, but just making you more powerful in your skin.

It's really cool because I've always known your work and quicksilver for really good delivery systems and primarily detox. So if someone says, I have a bunch of toxins, all right, you should go talk to Chris. Look at what they've got. And there's a bunch of just fantastic products for that. They go through the main pathways I talk about with my students. But what you've branched out into is hormone modulation for anti aging with the new DHEA and the new progesterone. And I think having progesterone that's got the correct delivery system is really profound. Having a nano serum versus just regular cream. I have progesterone cream in my drawer somewhere, but it probably doesn't work very well. But then this new thing around lengthening telomeres and upregulating Clotho with a delivery system that's never been used for those compounds. I'm pretty interested. So you've got a longevity and a hormone angle to what you're doing on top of detox. And I want to make sure people who listen for a while, they know I always say, look, you got to give us a discount because we, you know, we're all learning, learning all the time. We're also taking our biohacking dollars to live forever and stretching them. Quicksilverscientific.com Dave. Code Dave15 and they'll give you 15% off almost everything unless you're like doctor level products. So that's. Thank you for offering that to listeners. And I gotta say, the delivery mechanisms you talk about are hard to work with. You've been doing this for 10 plus years and you've been able to achieve results over time. And I've known you for. It was probably what, 2011 when we spoke at Autism One. And you've just continuously evolved this ability to laser target which supplements in what shape and what form to what receptors. And I think it's bearing real fruit. So I'm going to be doing the Longevity Elite. I'm going to play around with your progesterone product and I might even try some of the DHEA product. But like you said, an eighth of the normal dose. Because I love to get my DHA up without having negative effects that Lana doesn't like. She's going to kill me for that comment.

No, do that. It'll all be great. And the thing that we're doing for man, but it's going to go through compounding pharmacies is testosterone nanoparticles sublingual. And this is a totally different approach to testosterone. Say your native testosterone is 300, you want to be riding higher. You take a dose of this, say 12 milligrams, you'll go up to 2,000 and over the next four hours come back to your baseline. And that one shot on the androgen receptors is enough because the androgen receptors are stimulating all these downstream activities, which is really the androgenic activity. And so that one shot on the receptors is enough to carry you through. And maybe we'll end up doing it twice a day. But the beauty here is that when we're on, say injectable, like when we're on testosterone cypionate, we're keeping this high level of testosterone all the time. It goes up, it comes down a little injectable and it goes up. And what it does is it shuts off your testicular secretion, but it shuts off all your testicular function. So it shuts down FSH and lh. And then what you get is testicular atrophy. They get smaller, ejaculate gets smaller. You're not making sperm. Actually injectable test is a contraceptive and it stops, you know, all these other things that your testicles do. And so we had tested this out a couple of years ago and people felt great on it. Women really loved it. And so we're going to start doing this with college pharmacy. We have a bunch of people, we're starting the first testing with now and by Q1 next year, we hope to have this thing out. And so then once a day you have this big peak of test. And what we're hoping to see is the FSH and the LH stay up. Testicular volume stays there, ejaculate volume stays there, quality stays there. Yet you have that androgenicity that you're looking for.

So this may end up being a replacement for SARMs. And so if you're a longtime listener to the show, oh, geez, three, four years ago, I put on £29 in six weeks without changing my diet or exercise. Just by using things that modulate testosterone receptors that don't turn into androgens. That isn't necessarily a good idea because then you develop enough muscle to pull your tendons and ligaments apart because those don't grow like muscles do. Oops, a little bit of a problem with biohacking there, but I did have to buy new shirts when I did that. So this is probably a much more adult approach. And I will say with full disclosure here. I've talked about my stretch marks. I started taking testosterone when I was 26 because my testosterone levels were lower than my mother's, Literally, quantifiably so because I had such wrecked biology. I was obese. All that extra white fat makes more estrogen. I was aromatizing, My thyroid was off. Like, I had a really bad start to all this biohacking. So working with the doctor, I went on bioidentical testosterone, kept my levels right where they should be, not crazy high. And it's made a big difference. I can go off of it and my levels just aren't where I want them. If I'm very perfect, I can get them to middle of the range, but not mid high. So I still take testosterone. And one side effect of being on testosterone for 20 plus years is smaller balls. And for some people, it's a cosmetic issue. It doesn't appear to have any physiological effects that matter other than your underwear fit better. Probably, but. But I have spoken to probably 20 anti aging doctors about this and some guys get it and there's ways to fix it. If I want to take Clomid, I want to take Arimidex, which are prescription drugs with side effects that block those things at the doses you have to take. I did do that for years and I'm like, I just don't care. So, yes, guys, I have smaller balls than you, but that's all right. I still do what I want to do.

Yeah, I mean, you have to go off of it. You can speed it up with hcg and they come back, you know, and I've done that. But it's like, how can I get both?

Well, exactly. I would rather say, look, you get a few occasional spikes in testosterone. And to be really clear, whether you're a man or a woman, if you're low T, you're low desire. I don't mean sexual desire. I mean desire to do something that matters. It's a neurochemical as much as you're low concentration.

I mean, you look at women, and particularly perimenopause menopause, they like. Wait, what'd you just say? I don't know. And the multitasking is gone. The focus is gone. The drive to do things is gone. Same for men, you know, and, you know, testosterone is just wonderful that way. And all the old stuff about cardiovascular. It's cardio protective. All this stuff about prostate cancer. No, it doesn't do that. None of that stuff happens. That was all disproven. And so having the right levels of all the hormones just powers everything up.

Yep. And people are asking in the upgrade collective right now, okay, I want to use the Dave 15 code. If I can only buy one thing, what should it be? And what I just typed and answered, like, which problem do you want to hack? Right. So if it's an energy problem, probably the dhea. If it's, you know, it's a toxin problem, you go for one of your detox things. But if it's. And if it's a calmness problem, you go with progesterone. And then if it's an aging thing they're looking for, and it's like, I want to do the aging. That's Longevity Elite. Do I have that set of recommendations? Right? Because that's what I just typed.

So in the detox push catch Liver detox, it comes as a. As a pair there, the liver sauce and the binder. Wonderful. You know, and each box will. Will last about two weeks. You do 10 days on, four days off. And, you know, I'd go in for a month, do two, think about double doses, you know, the second half to do three boxes. And then. Yeah, in the hormone side, you know, energy for. For really just get both on the hormone side and there'll be a bundle where they come together. And then the longevity side, it's Longevity Elite. Then the NAD precursors, Nicotinamide mononucleotide, the liposome, NAD gold, and NAD platinum. NAD Gold is just the straight nmn. NAD platinum is the NMN with methylation factors. And that's the one thing that we missed in the NAD thing in the beginning is you have to balance building NAD with building methylation. Because when you build nad, as you're activating sirtuins, you're building up a pool of nicotinamide. No, nicotinamide. And to get rid of that excess because it actually blocks the sirtuins, then to get rid of the excess, you use same to methylate it and you build homocysteine. And so if you're trying NAD precursors, but you're not getting the clarity and the strength you want, you need more methylation. And so we have the NAD gold and the methyl charge that go together or they're blended together in the NAD platinum to make them a little bit simpler.

Well, I think that you've got a great stack there. And thank you for sharing the info about detox and aging because even in, you know, the anti aging movement, some of the guys I really just love and respect who are doing core work in the labs, detox isn't usually on the radar. It's how do I go in and make the cell do what I want? I'm like, well, you stop putting bad stuff in there versus adding some of this and some of that. And we could go for hours and hours, but I want to make sure we have the right length to show for itunes and everywhere else. So. Chris QuickSilverScientific.com Dave Code Dave 15 saves people a bunch of money. And guys, I hope that rundown work for you. So there's a deto that's there. There's a longevity thing and then there's dhea, which is more energy and female hormones, and progesterone, which is more sleep, relaxation. And I'm actually using all of those. Actually. I haven't tried the progesterone yet and I haven't tried the female hormones because I'm not a female. But I'm going to take a little tiny dash of that to see if I can tweak my DHEA levels. And you're going to come out with the men's version of that soon. So, guys, there you go. There's your how to understand what we just said and do these things and see if you feel radically different. And if you do, it's worth not going to the coffee shop every single day in order to cover it. People say supplements are expensive. They are. Right. But so is a lot of the other stuff that you do. And there is nothing more precious in my life than feeling good and having a brain that works and having more energy than I need all the time, because I did not have that for a lot of my life. And I'll tell you, I have at times spent 20% of my monthly income on supplements because it made me feel so good and it was the best I ever did. I don't think you should have to do that. No one should ever be as sick as I was. But I will tell you, if you buy supplements, you want ones that work really, really well. Chris has built a great reputation over the last decade building just laser targeted stuff that you don't see somewhere else. So Chris, thanks man. I appreciate you.

Absolutely. Thanks so much. And you know, it really is stuff that works. You know you're going to pay more, you might pay twice as much, but you know, Quiersted 25 fold increase in bioavailability, CBD, six fold, curcumin are hundreds of fold. And so you're going to get more in the dhea. You know, we're still trying to quantify it. It's, you know, 10 to 20 fold higher. And that's where the changes happen is when you get pow, you get a nice pop of these things into the blood and, and that's where everything happens. So don't be afraid to pay for it. And it's been a pleasure talking to you, Dave. I love talking about all these subjects and thank you very much.

If you liked the episode today, you know what to do. Well, leave a review. It's one of the best things you can possibly do. And if you want to be part of the studio audience, the guys who are asking questions and being able to check in and hear this as I was recording it, including the parts that didn't make it into the final edit, go to ourupgradecollective.com and sign up to be a part of my mentorship and membership group. I will teach you every single one of my books in structured courses that don't take very much time. So you learn that way. And there's a vibrant community with coaches who help you hack yourself. And of course, we all like Quicksilver products. See you on the next episode. You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey.

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