Heart Coherence Unveiled: A Journey with Rollin McCraty : 1094

You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey, formerly Bulletproof Radio. You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. Today is an interview that I'm really, really looking forward to because it's with a guy who I first met, I want to say about 15 years ago, maybe even 20, back when I was running one of the anti aging nonprofit research and education groups in Palo Alto. It's called the Silicon Valley Health Institute. And I did not know the things I know now about biohacking because I was learning longevity from people who were oftentimes three times my age. So in my 20s, and I had people who were 88 years old on the board of directors who were showing me how they were getting younger before it was supposed to be possible. And one of the guests who came in was Roland McCready from the Heart Math Institute. And he talked about all this really cool math and science and measurable things that tied directly to what I thought was a little bit of bs, Things like meditation back when no one would admit they meditated if they had a job because they would just think you were crazy. Now if you're saying, Dave, how the heck old are you guys? On the calendar, I'm 50. On lab tests, I'm somewhere between 39 and maybe 24, depending on what numbers you like to believe. But the world has changed a lot. And part of the role of starting the biohacking movement and bringing this out there was to normalize meditation and consciousness as high performance human techniques. So personal development is part of what you do as a biohacker. It's just hard to do personal development if your hardware doesn't work. And Roland McCready, today's guest, is one of the first guys who pointed out to me scientifically, hey, if you want to have the kind of life that you want, then you've got to look at the intersection between what's going on invisibly in your biology and in your nervous system and your conscious mind. And when you do that, it has an effect that's bigger than you might think that because it actually affects other people. And it does it via signals that we don't consciously pick up but that we can measure. In other words, your effect on other people is real when you walk in the room, even if they don't even.

Know that you're there.

Roland, welcome to the show.

Thanks.

Dave, what'd you think of that intro?

Well, that was cool. I was trying to remember how long ago it was too, and it probably closer to 20.

Yeah, I think it was somewhere around the late 90s, wasn't it?

It was before you were famous.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm still not sure if I'm famous, but I'm better known than I was before. I know some people are really famous and thank God I'm not one of those. There are people who literally can't travel because they're so famous. And I don't want to be one of those, but I understand, but you.

Know what I mean.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I do know that when I was at Burning man last week, I was walking down. I'm not saying what I was or wasn't wearing at the time. Walking down the street one morning and someone's like, hey, is that you, Dave? And I'm going, yeah. And he says, thanks for cutting your hair. And I said, you're welcome. And I kept walking. So, yeah, I was spotted in the.

Wild, put it that way.

So I guess that means I'm famous right now. Roland Some of our listeners know what heart rate variability is and many of them may not. So I know we're not going to talk about heart rate variability as our topic. We're going to talk about things like emotions and cognitive processing and energetic systems and our effects on each other. But can you talk about how important heart rate variability is for measuring this stuff and where that comes from? Just kind of give us an overview.

Yeah, be happy to. Dave, Most trackers out there that people, you know that, I mean, HRV's kind of transitioned out of the research world, which is huge in these days. I mean, there are hundreds of thousands of publications now on heart repurability and the research and clinical kind of world. And of course, for those that aren't familiar with hrv, and I should probably back up a little bit from where I was, what I was about to say. First of all, just understand that our heart rate changes with each and every heartbeat. So what heart rate variability is, is measuring the time between each consecutive pair of heartbeats. And that time between beats is always changing. Now, this is a complete revolution in a way because if you back 20, well, maybe 30 years, I got to remember how old I'm getting here, actually turn 70 next month. It used to be thought that a sign of good health was a steady heart rate. You know, like the heart was like a metrodome. And we now know that as just utter nonsense. It's the opposite, that in a healthy system our heart rate's always varying and we have more of this natural beat to beat variation when we're young and it gets less as we get older. In fact, it's one of the best measures of the aging process. It's how much of it we have. It's kind of crossed into the consumer world, the biohacking world, which of course you are a big player in. Of course, Dave. So a lot of things are out there of measuring how much of this variability do we have and, and so on, and that's great and it's important. However, there's a much deeper, from my perspective, level of what HRV indicates about what's going on inside of our body, rather than just kind of slow process in terms of how much, and that is what we call how coherent is the variability. And that reflects current state. Now, when we look a little bit deeper under the hood, what heart rate variability actually can measure and does reflect is the degree of synchronization of the activity in the activity of our higher brain systems and within our nervous system. And that's where it gets really interesting because that's something we can learn to rather quickly change and control to a certain degree. And I think it's for most people pretty self evident that it just makes sense to be in sync, you know, the activity in our brain and nervous system and the neural systems. Because when we're in sync, that's one of the main things that enhances or facilitates performance across a lot of different domains physically. I actually know of a few world records in sports that have been set after coherence training in athletes.

The idea of coherence training here is that all of us have a number of beats per minute, but the spacing of those beats can be totally different. You could have 60 beats in one second and then no beats for 59 seconds. You'd probably be dead in that case. Right. But you'd still have 60 beats per minute. Right. So. And if it's one beat every second, which is what we imagine, then you're a stressed person and it's not working very well. But if the beats kind of move around within each second, then your nervous system is healthier. But there's a pattern to the way they move around. Mathematically that means you're coherent, right?

Yeah, it's, it's the. Well, you know, maybe a simpler language when we're looking at the pattern is to think of our heart rhythm. See, if we didn't have this beat to beat change in heart rate, there'd be no heart rhythm. It would be like a metronome. A rhythm is the change over time. And if you just look at somebody's heart. Most people are thinking of heart rate like you're talking about how many times heartbeat in a minute, you know, and if you look at most monitors, it looks like flat because it's averaged out. You know, you collect data for 30 seconds or a minute and then you put a dot and you. It kind of looks like this flat lining. Unless you exercise or do something and you see it kind of slowly change, that's not the reality. But when you look on, when you plot this beat to beat change, that is our heart rhythm, which is always going up and down and up and down. And the amount of it we have really reflects the flexibility within our nervous system. In fact, when that variability gets lower and the range of that rhythm gets lower, that's well correlated with a lot of things we don't want to have in our life. Reduced mental flexibility, cognitive flexibility, emotional flexibility. We get stuck kind of in the same old patterns, physiologically as well as mentally and emotionally.

That's the important thing. It's a physiological thing. It's inside your biology. But then you feel it emotionally. And for me, after your very first lecture back at that anti aging nonprofit group, I got one of the HeartMath devices and your research group is associated with HeartMath. And I started doing this training. It was really hard for me. It was a little game you play on your iPhone. You can still get it today. I helped to bring heart rate variability into the world of biohacking, got you guys to present at the quantified self meetups years ago. And the reason I did that is because I became a certified heart math coach years ago and I would do this and all of a sudden like my. I could feel my physiology changing. It was helping me to relax and helping me to realize what it felt like when my body went into a fight or flight mode versus when I was in this. This newer state that I'd learned.

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And after I, I started coaching people on it. I remember this one engineer in Silicon Valley. Now engineers, software developers are not known for being highly emotional people. They tend to be a little bit rational. I had Asperger's syndrome until I reprogrammed all that stuff. It's common in the field. So these are not the people who talk about or even really sense their emotions easily. And this guy, after eight weeks, he says, Dave, I did my 20 minutes of training every day the way you recommended, and I'm pretty sure I experienced bliss. And here, like a programmer experienced bliss. Back then, programmers don't experience bliss. But we did. And things have shifted. Today actually, people who write code. And engineers now accepted to be curious about your consciousness. But not that long ago, you couldn't do that. So the idea that you could turn on bliss by training your heart rate variability and getting higher levels of coherence in your heart, it's really cool. So I wanted listeners to understand this idea. And you wake up in the morning, you can see how was your heart rate variability last night? Did you recover? Did you not? Most listeners have heard of that by now.

Yeah, that's the how much variability we're talking about.

But here's the question for you. Global Coherence Initiative. You've been studying how we affect each other just from our heart rate coherence. Tell me about that.

Okay, so that's really a cool story. I love interviews where we can go a little wider than just physiology and the heart, brain communication and all that.

Dave.

So if we dial back into the 90s, you know, when we were. We started obviously as a psychophysiology laboratory. That may not be obvious, but. And so we got onto the link between our inner world, what we're feeling, you know, whether even if we're an engineer, we think we don't have feelings, we do just maybe aren't aware of them as much as we should be.

Exactly.

And how important that is, because that's what drives the activity in our brain and nervous system is our emotions way more than our thoughts. Okay, let me just say that to start off with. And we started understanding how the heart rhythms is the most reflective of our interstate. Right. Then I won't get into the whole history of how we got onto this. It was sort of backwards in a way, I'm really honest. But we were doing some research with water, actually, and the effect of consciousness. And I'll tell a little bit of the story. And we were putting electrodes in water and changing water structure and these two various methods. And we found that water actually amplifies weak electromagnetic fields through some other experiments. And that led to the idea, well, wait a minute, we're water mostly, right in our bodies. Are we also amplifying weak electromagnetic fields, you know, that we receive and are we radiating them? We know when we put electrodes on the body, we're measuring current, electrical current. That's why it's called the electrocardiogram or the electroencephalograph, if we're measuring brain waves. But whenever you have a current flow, you create a magnetic field. And my previous career was a communication engineer. I used to work for Motorola and something I know a little bit About. So we got this wacky idea. Well, what can we measure our heartbeat in a glass of water sitting on a table in front of us without touching it? Yes, we could. That was the backwards way.

This is really important. Okay, guys, Roland just said that using advanced communications engineering tools, you can measure your heartbeat in a glass of water that's not touching you. That's kind of a world changing idea because if you think you can walk into a room and you don't have an effect on anything you're not touching, you're changing water. And that would also imply that you're changing anyone else who's made out of water.

Well, that was the next step. Right. And then so we got into using magnetometers, which you can put out. So to measure the magnetic component, which the electrodes don't see, you have to use a different instrument called a magnetometer. So you can stick the probe of a magnetometer, if it's set up right, you can get quite a few feet away from the body and still detect the heartbeat. So then using almost the exact same techniques I would use back in my Motorola days, I'll just call it. Which we use to decode or demodulate to look at the. The signal being modulated on a electromagnetic field that you carry information with, just like our cell phones do every day. Right. Once carrying that information, long story short, we found that those magnetic fields are carrying information about our inner state, certainly our emotional state. So that that proved, I won't say implies it, because it certainly does that, especially in our emotions. Much more, I'm sure we just haven't proven. We don't know how to determine code. All that yet doesn't stop at our scan. We are broadcasting that. And if those information patterns are being carried by these magnetic fields, we could put a probe out here, measure it, decode it. In today's world, we can tell with about 75% accuracy what somebody's feeling just by looking at the field. Okay, all right, so next step. All right, you already kind of alluded to this, Dave. More big bags of water. And we already had already found some other research track that water amplifies biologically generated magnetic fields anyway, probably all of them. But the next step, and this was actually incredibly easy to do, and I was shocked that nobody had ever done it before. I did all those searches. Somebody had done this. Right. Is our. The quality, I'll call it, of the information in our fields, is that affecting others in measurable ways? Yes. That was not actually wasn't rocket science to figure that out. So that then really led to the understanding that there's always an energetic communication going on between people, at least when we're together in the same room in groups. Right. Or individuals. Usually. Not always, but usually on. Below the consciousness, the conscious awareness level, but still having profound effects on the quality of communication going on within a group or a dyad or a couple.

So if I had a magnetometer and I was interviewing someone for a job interview, could I tell with 75% accuracy what they're feeling?

Yeah, but you don't. Here's the thing. You don't even made a magnetometer. That was the research.

Because you are one.

Yeah. And. All right, so then. And it took some time to sort all this out. You know, I was talking about those information patterns being carried by the field. Right. Well, they correlate. There's a direct mathematical relationship between the heart rate variability patterns, the rhythm patterns, and those. The structure of that information being carried by the field.

Imagine if we had a heart rate monitor and a magnetometer on all politicians all the time when they were doing public speeches.

Wouldn't that be fun?

We'd have no more politicians because they're always dying. Right. And we would know it. Oh, so this is kind of profound. If you're listening to this right now, you could be saying, that can't be true. Guys, I have known Roland for 20 years. I have been on the advisory board for the Heartmath Institute. And Roland is an actual real engineer who does the deep math and the deep signals analysis. That's what Motorola was all about. This is real stuff. And he's been working on it for a long time. And the implications for human consciousness are profound. Because if you want to find out why your Buddhist meditation does this or why you sit in a room like I did at Copan Monastery in Nepal to learn meditation, and you have the guru or the teacher in the room, and they're transmitting something, which is how they would describe it. Well, there is an invisible but existing signal that happens when you're around certain people. And part of the reason that I learned to do what I do to make biohacking into a global movement. I did a lot of work with HeartMath, and I learned how to. Because I used to be nervous on stage, especially when I was doing Silicon Valley keynote presentations, I was quite nervous. So I learned to. Before I would go on to do my heart coherence meditations and to do the breathing. And I found that if I shifted myself into this state, that I had a lot more audience interaction, that it worked better. And when I went on stage in front of 15,000 people on Tony Robbins main stage at UPW, I did the same thing I always do, which is I automatically now change my coherence so that I resonate for the crowd, or more to the point, the audience resonates with me. And then what that feels like to people when you're with someone who has high levels of coherence and high amplitude, which are things that I have in my biology because I built them, is that it feels authentic. Because it is authentic. Because when your words match your transmissions exactly, then you're going, that is real. And when you get the person who walks on stage and their words are good, but their transmissions are not good, you feel dissonance and you just know something's wrong.

Yeah. And that same thing, you're absolutely right. Goes on in our day to day communications with people, our spouses, our teammates, people we work with. It's that dissonance that is one of the main factors in miscommunication and feeling untrusted and separated when all these things that go on that are pretty big cost factors, you know, in business. You'd ask Dave, if I may, about Global. The Global. What the hell does this have to do. I'm sorry about my language here. What the heck does this have to do with Global? Right. Well, okay, so we're. Now, we had already done this work back in the 90s showing that this communication is going on. And by the way, of course, tone of voice, the words we choose, body language, all that matters as well to seeing there's additional layer that sometimes matters even more that we're often unaware of. Then it became. I learned about some things that you would have thought I would have known from being a communication engineer. Right. Professionally. But I'd never learned and I think most people hadn't. And this just blew me away. I got to share this when I learned this. So we were talking about magnetic fields. Now let's take it to the global scale. So Earth, right? We have a. The Earth has a magnetic field. We all know that. We learned that back in probably grade school. Right. You know, the North Pole, the South Pole, all this stuff, big magnetic field. Well, one of the things I. What I hadn't ever learned until I got into another route is that magnetic fields can be plucked. The field lines. Right. If you remember the experiment, you dump the iron filings on the glass plate, you put the magnet under it and it jumps around and shows you the shape of the field, whether it's a bar magnet or a horseshoe, whatever. But remember those iron filings line up in parallel lines. So with that really simple experiment, we're also visualizing magnetic field lines, or flux lines if you want be more specific. Here's the thing. It's blow away. They act like guitar strings. You can pluck them and they vibrate.

And you can measure this.

Oh, it's made routinely. We measure it globally now. Right. But I was well off into having to learn a new field about some of the geomagnetic stuff. And in fact, there's a technical term for it at scale of Earth. They're called field line resonances. That's the term in the literature. It's been around long before I came along. So what's plucking the field lines of Earth is the solar wind, right? Earth is turning, the solar wind's rushing by plucking the magnetic field lines and they're vibrating. In fact, I've got a great image of this from NASA. You can actually visualize it if you don't believe it. Well, yeah, it is. Well, here's the wild thing. The primary resonant node, or frequency of the Earth's magnetic field lines vibrating is in frequency language, 0.1 Hz. That's a cycle every 10 seconds in the time world, which I know you'll recognize because it's at exactly the same frequency as our heart rhythms when we're in that coherent state. Like, huh, you know, I was more of a dot connector in this. And we got onto this because when we were. Basically, what I'm trying to say here, Dave, is taking it from the living room or the workplace and the local energetic interactions to the global. It's through resonance principles. This is right back to Communication Engineering 101. When things are resonant as resonant frequencies, you transfer energy and information. I'm an old guy now. I way remember when we had radios in our house or cars, you had to turn the knob to tune, right. You're changing the resonance of the receiver to the vibrating frequency of the field we can't see and boom, there's the radio station. Or we do the same thing in cell phones, right? You transfer the energy and information.

You know, Roland, one of the things that I learned running that nonprofit anti aging group when I first met you there is you can learn a lot from your elders. So when you say you're an old guy, that's another way of saying you've probably accumulated some WISD that you're sharing now. So I, I appreciate that you remind me of one other guy that I met in Silicon Valley at the same time, maybe a little bit younger than you. He was the guy who wrote the first patent for 802. 11 for what we now call Wi Fi. Right. The very first patent. And we sat down at Red Rock Coffee Shop in Mountain View, California and he said, Dave, I, I heard the stuff you're doing with heart math and the stuff you're doing with anti aging to show you what I found, because I took my million dollar signal detection equipment for EMFs, not magnetic stuff you're doing, and I turned it around and I looked at my own body and look what I saw. And he shows me a picture of chakra points because I think there's data diagnostic data in human biology. We're transmitting WI FI signals all the time.

I'm like, we are.

We just don't see it with our eyes. And so our smart brains filter that out of our reality. Our body's job is to filter out all the signals that we don't need to survive. And we might want these signals to thrive, but we don't need them to reproduce. And that's why Mother Nature doesn't show them to us. But guys like you, when you do the math and you do the hard research and the science, you're going, no, this is real and it's provable and it's repeatable and it's beautiful that you've done that.

Yeah, it's a way, it's bringing the, I won't say invisible because that's the wrong word. Word, but it's bringing what we are not consciously aware of.

Unseen.

Yeah, unseen. Into visual. To be able to understand and visualize it and to see it. So the. Just to complete my thoughts, if I may, on that, Dave, you know, we published probably 20, 25 papers on the, the interconnectivity now between our own biology, our health, our wellness, our performance, and how in sync we are with the rhythms that we live in. See, we all live within the fields of the earth. You cannot escape it. And again, I think kind of intuitively, it just kind of common sense that to be in sync with the rhythms we live in. We already know that being in sync in our own rhythms is the key to performing better, whether it's sports or mentally, cognitively, whatever. But being in sync with the rhythms of the earth is kind of the next level, if you will.

It's funny you mentioned 0.1 Hz. In other words, one cycle every 10 seconds at 40 years of Zen, which is my neuroscience brain training company for entrepreneurs and people seeking deeper consciousness. We do train that on the last two days, we train brainwaves along that same cycle, which is a carrier frequency for just about all the other brain waves.

Default node. I actually saw the default mode network frequency in the brain in EEG years before it was discovered in the bold signals and MRIs.

It's funny when you take someone who really understands signals analysis and my background, I was a network engineer, not a signals engineer. I'm more tcp, IP kind of stuff. But when you get someone who really knows electrical signaling and you turn that knowledge around on humans, you find we operate on those same principles of reality. And even the internal signaling between mitochondria follows the same algorithms we use in crypto. Like our systems are imminently hackable. You're just one of the first people to really sit down and say, let's apply modern signals analysis technologies to the body. And having done that for what, 30 years now, you've been doing this around that. I think you're one of the leaders in the world at saying, well, how do we take the engineering hacking mindset and apply it to ourselves and see what's really going on in there? And what's going on in there is not chemical, although it is chemical. It's not just chemical. It's also magnetic and electrical and informational. And it has to be because if you just have a thinking mind and you know how systems work, it has to do that in order to achieve what we do.

I more and more have come to understand, if you will or believe that what we invent in terms of technology, nature has already done it.

Yeah.

And we're just discovering that. And there's so many examples of that. In fact, communications industry is one of those. The fact that we're broadcasting, it's the same thing. We just body nature invented it a long time ago. We're just kind of catching up to understand it.

We are. And it's kind of funny, Ray Kurzweil is going to come on the show, someone I've been a fan of for a long time. He's a very, very good author. And, you know, he's famous for saying we're going to upload ourselves the Internet. And what I learned over the course of becoming a biohacker is that we're already uploaded the Internet. We just haven't figured out how to hack our own signal yet.

Yeah, well, that's okay. So that's. Thank you. Because that's really what I'm saying. That's what the Global Coherence Initiative is all about is that we are way already connected to the what I call global information to field through resonance principles. The fact that our hearts are vibrating heart rhythms at the same as the resonant frequencies of the earth. And then there's also the Schumann frequencies which are a lot of people make big deals about of a new age and all that and a lot of misinformation and just utter nonsense circles through social media around all that.

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Let's go there. Let's talk about Schumann Resonance reality versus nonsense and then let's talk in Detail about the global coherence project that you're working on.

Okay, well, Schumann resonances mechanism, what they are, they're magnetically, strength wise or power wise, they are several orders of magnitude smaller than the field line resonances.

Oh, really?

Oh, yeah. They're huge. Now, I can't help but say this. It's at least interesting. Okay, so when we talk our physiology, we measure the heart signal, right? The electrocardiogram, which is 100 times stronger than EEG, right? Electrically. So magnetically, that's also true. So now here's kind of. That translates. You can stick your magnetic probe out here and back up from the body around three feet before you lose the sensitivity of the technology detecting it, the field keeps going. That's our sensory technology. That same device, same settings, it's about an inch for the brain.

It's hard to get a signal from the brain. You get electricity coming off the scalp, which is also hard. But the magnetic. The magnetic strength of the brain is weak. But the magnetic strength of the heart is strong.

Right. Okay. But now, isn't this interesting that at the earth scale, field line resonances, which are the same frequency as the heart rhythms. Right. Are the same ratio stronger than the Schumann resonances, which are the same frequency as our brain waves.

Whoa. So that's basically alpha all the brainwaves, I mean, so.

Well, first. So let's. Okay, Schumann resonances, We won't spend a lot of time here because. Not that big of a mystery. They're called Schumann resonances because they're named after a German mathematician who mathematically predicted that these magnetic waves had to be traveling around the surface of the Earth. So they got named after him when they were first experimentally measured not that long ago, 1960. You know, it certainly wasn't my lifetime, you know, and many of. I'm probably listening was the first measurement of these. So there's still a lot that's to be uncovered from my perspective. But these are magnetic rhythms or waves that are bouncing between the surface of the Earth and the bottom of what's called the ionosphere. You can think of as a soap bubble plasma around the planet, or state of matter and physics. And one of the qualities of this plasma is that it's like a mirror to lower frequency magnetic waves. This is why ham radio operators can bounce radio signals off the ionosphere and talk to people on the other side of the planet. So anyway, it's the dimensions of this cavity between the ionosphere and the Earth that completely control the frequency of the Schumann resonances. And there's eight of them. First one is 7.83 hertz. So when they were first experimentally measured back in late 1959, early 60 was the first ever measurement. It was immediately recognized. Wow. That's the same as our used to be thought of alpha rhythm. And things have changed a little bit. It's that right between alpha theta, that sweet right there of that 7.8 hertz. But there's eight Schumann resonances, not just one. And they all overlap with our brainwaves frequencies.

And the others are harmonics of that?

Well, sort of, yeah. You can think of them as harmonics, but they're not. It's not a simple just harmonic doubling relationship because of the different layers within the ionosphere and so on, but basically. Okay, so the nonsense that we see all the time about it seems like every two years the social media blows up. For the first time ever, we've measured 30 hertz. And this human resonance consciousness is changing. No, we actually have a global network. I've got magnetometers now. We built. It's called the Global Coherence Monitoring System.

How many do you have now embedded around the world?

Oh, God. See, there's Saudi Arabia, Lithuania, Canada, Northern Canada here in California, South Africa, New Zealand. Six, right? Six or seven.

So, guys, Roland and his team have gone around the planet and installed magnetometers at various locations that are constantly measuring the strength and size and shape of the field of the planet, the magnetic field, to get data that shows how it's changing us and we're changing it.

Yeah, you got it.

Wow.

So that's part of the Global Coherence Initiative that you asked me about. Now, the Global Coherence Initiative has evolved over. That is probably at least 15 years old now, which it now includes a lot of neat things. So there's the Global Magnetometer Measuring System and. And we've done a number of studies that are really cool, by the way. We can't get into all of them now where we measure people over long periods. The heart rate variability. Probably the only studies in the world in one, for example, 24 hours a day, measuring the HRV of groups of people for months.

Wow.

Because our HRV really reflects the activity in our nervous system. That's what it actually is telling us.

Do you mean that the state of the magnetic field of the planet affects your nervous system?

Of course it does.

How dare you say such a thing? Because that would justify things like astrology or people going crazy when there's a full moon and everyone knows, oh, wait, people do go Crazy when there's a full moon. Any hospital room knows this. Any police department knows this. So we are affected by our environment in invisible ways, right? And then we feel responsible for it and we are responsible for our actions. But they were influenced by our environment.

Well, well, but the point is that yes, we, we can be and often are influenced by certainly the magnetic environment we live in. But it could be the noise of a city, the. Or being in the forest here in the redwoods where I live are affecting us. That's kind of obvious. Well, it should be obvious, I feel. But the point is that we can learn to be in charge of ourselves where we don't have to get beat around or ride the kind of the waves, if you will, of that we can learn to maintain our own inner coherence, whatever that external environment might be doing.

That's called being resilient. In fact, I started a company called Bulletproof one time state of human performance, which is when you're unprogrammable by your environment because you are able to maintain your autonomy and independence even in the face of a dirty signal.

Yeah, yeah, right. And so like the Schumann resonances or the field line resonances can certainly get disturbed when say, like when Earth gets hit with a solar flare. Our physiology does not like living in disturbed fields. And there are so many studies that show this.

So if a bad actor wanted to create a dirty field that created physiological stress in humans, what technology would you.

Use to do that? Well, okay, so I think I know.

The answer, but I would design something.

That is resonant with our physiological rhythms.

First of all, like the electrical system.

No. Okay. So I had the opportunity many years ago to meet now Ross, 80.

Okay.

Ross is a really famous guy in the bioelectromagnetic and bioelectromagnetic medicine world. Okay. And I was fortunate to get invited to some invitation only conferences. This is back in the early 90s as well, and in Switzerland, that it was kind of the cream, if you will, of the, the research world and that those things. And Ross. So I got to meet Ross and he was already pretty my age back then. Right.

He was a Karolinska Institute guy. Right.

He might have been associated.

Okay, got it.

One of, one of the many things that Ross did is he showed that because back then, you know, this idea, you know, we were kind of ancient in our thinking back then in a certain way, but he was the leader of that pack. You know, like the only, the only way the external field can affect biological tissues is through heat.

Yeah, that's such bullshit. But we believed it, right?

Yeah, it was crazy. But you know, in today's world, most people that's. We've way moved past that through because people like Ross. 80. Right. Well, one of the things he showed that I think is so important is that biological systems can certainly react to external fields in a nonlinear, profound ways. Nonlinear amplification effect. However, that we have biological, what he called biological windows. That those nonlinear only respond in very specific, what he called windows. The frequency has to be right, has to match, and so does the amplitude of that signal. And if they're out of that biological window, we really don't have much response to it. Well, guess what biological systems respond most to?

They love 2.4. Was it gigahertz or no megahertz? The wireless phones, 900 megahertz.

Okay, so means you brought that up. But so in other words, what we're most sensitive to are the same frequencies and rhythms we generate.

Ah, there you go.

Which makes sense, right? If you're designing the ultimate system, we.

Generate frequencies that we can also read that allow us to read other humans to see if we should trust them or kill them.

Yeah, right.

So let's make electronic devices that send banking data over those same networks. What could go wrong?

Well, right, so you get my point. If I. To answer, if I was going to design a system to harm somebody, I would understand those windows.

Got it. And I, and I. I'm not proposing you would do that or that anyone should do that. I think we have done that with our technology because they didn't identify that it was possible for technology to do this or that those windows existed, even though we know they do. But the guys working on tech systems do not know that humans can do this. I asked the CTOs of three of the largest mobile phone manufacturers on stage at a Peter Diamandis event. Whose job is it to look at biological effects of blue light on VR headsets or of EMFs on human biology? And they just looked at each other and said, not ours. So they don't know. But you know, and so this knowledge has to get out there. That's one of the reasons I wanted to interview you.

Yeah, you know, one of the things we've been looking at in terms of this global stuff and by the way, so that within global, I just wanted to mention the global, where I was starting to go the global parent initiative. So there's a global monitoring system of Earth's field. We also. Now we're the new home for what's called the Global Consciousness Project 2.0. And that's by far the best system that exists, from my perspective, of measuring how our collective consciousness, when a lot of us feel something at the same time, you know, a big media event, a terrorist attack, or a global peace days, these type of things, we can measure that effect. And which is really cool.

Global Consciousness Project. You're using your embedded magnetometers around the planet.

It's a different device, but.

Yeah, well, that's a different device. Okay. What it. What are you measuring to measure global consciousness?

Well, okay, so we've taken this over from a project that was started 25 years ago as well, at Princeton University. It's called the Global Consciousness Project. Roger Nelson. And it's a global network of physical devices that make random numbers. Electronic coin flippers. They're making ones or zeros. Yeah. The data over the last 25 years from that project. Now let me give you the statistics. First are 3 trillion to one odds against chance. They're super powerful. Whoa. And what this shows, and it's that when a lot of people change their consciousness, especially what they pay attention to and they feel something, it's emotion that drives this. Right. Like terrorist attacks, or we all come together and meditate. Global meditations, these type of things. So hundreds of these events have been analyzed that you think of it as this globally distributed scientific instrument. That's how I look at it. Of these devices that are making ones or zeros, we tend to think of it in consciousness waves. That we're literally putting waves into the global field environment that it somehow interacts with these devices to change their activity so they become correlated. It's like if you think of waves on the ocean, it's like the boas or the rubber ducks. I liked rubber ducks. Are all moving up and down at the same time, like a field wave is going through.

What you're basically saying here is that human consciousness makes random number generators non random.

Yeah. Well, what it's showing is that our consciousness, especially our aligned and coherent collective consciousness, interacts directly, interacts with and measurably affects the physical world.

Hmm. So people listening to this can do one of two things. You can do. What normally happens is your ego interjects and says, that can't be, therefore it isn't, and then you throw it away. Now that's logically stupid. It is.

Yeah.

But that's what our bodies will do if we're not paying attention.

Three trillion to one odds against chance.

This is real science. And then you realize, wow, you might want to gain control of your own biology and your own thoughts and your own emotions because you are constantly peeing in your own swimming pool. If you don't.

That's a good way of saying it. I might steal that from you.

It's yours. It's a gift. I remember when you at Burning man actually put the first part of the global consciousness project, at least the first test you did at Burning Man. And I remember posting, posting on Facebook back when people still use Facebook. Just kidding. I said, you know, my prediction is that at the end of the burn, they will find that there were shifts in randomness at the burn because there's a lot of people doing a lot of consciousness work there. And everyone said, there's no way. That can't be. That's impossible. And I said, well, I. I had already talked to you privately about what you were doing, and I understand the nature of reality from my own biohacking explorations and said, okay, I predict this. And sure enough. What did you find at Burning man when you measured this?

That was actually Dean Radin who did that.

Oh, was it Dean. Okay. Wasn't he associated with you guys or was that.

No, he is associated. He's part of our team working on the global consciousness project. Yeah, he found that there was a strong effect of that. But it's kind of interesting because the main criticism that we get or that Roger has gotten because we've just taken over and created 2.0, a completely new version of this to really address some of the unknowns, new questions was, well, if you don't know the mechanism, we don't believe you.

I love those guys. Those are my favorite ones.

Well, here. But here, one of the. One of the people on my team that we've hired a couple of years ago is he's PhD in Stanford in quantum physics. He's a computational mathematician. Physics. And he was telling me this just a couple weeks ago. Knock him is his name. You know, my dissertation from Stanford was in high temperature superconductivity. That's, you know, I mean, he's a really smart guy, left and joined our team and he's our primary scientist working on the background of this new GCP 2.0 project. Just, you know, we do not know the mechanism of how high temperature superconductivity works. It works, but we don't. We do not yet understand the mechanism. And it's the hottest topic in physics right now. And there are teams of scientists all around the world trying to understand this. And his point is, this is no different than GCP2. You get what I'm saying?

I get exactly what you're saying. So many people have come to me in the realm of biohacking, and I can say, I know this works because you can do it and you get results. And they say, but it can't work because I don't know why it works. Which, again, is logically absurd. So then I came up with the best answer for this type of critic. Say, oh, you need a mechanism of action. Okay, it's leprechauns. And of course they go, blah. They go, well, hold on a second here. Let's go through the entire history of science since the Enlightenment, and almost every single theory about how things work, including Newtonian physics, is wrong. We tell ourselves stories to make it easier for us to see, see how it works, but they're not actually real. They aren't true because there's usually a layer underneath it that usually ends up in quantum physics. So it's okay to not know as long as if I punch myself in the face and it hurts. I don't need to know the mechanism of action and the coefficient of friction and all that stuff. Those are all stories. What I know is if I do A, I get B more than half the time. Therefore, A works. That's the core of science. And understanding why and. And doing the math and making it more understandable and teasing out and making it stronger, that's the game of understanding the world. You don't need to know that for it to work.

Yeah, but we are in. What we're doing in GCP too, is we do care. I care about understanding the mechanism.

I care too. But you don't need to. To get the results exactly right.

I mean, if we're so blind, because we don't. I mean, I would say it's probably in every major discovery in science, the understanding, the result was there before our understanding the mechanism. Right. So anyway, that's kind of off topic. Anyway, who cares?

But I've got to ask you the really big question here, and this is definitely part of what I'm interested in as a biohacker, we know that any antenna that you have can be used to receive a signal and can be used to send a signal.

Yeah. Right.

So when it comes to the GCP stuff, the Global Consciousness project, can we use that network or any other technology to send a consciousness signal that affects humans in a positive way?

Well, absolutely. Well, I mean, we're using the technology of GCP2 to measure the output of our signal that we get.

But I want to use GCP to send the signal into our consciousness so we can wake the heck up.

Yeah, no, no other way around. But we can. Well, I would say let's use our antennas because what once we're seeing, well, there's so many places we could go here. There's also part of gci, by the way, I just want to say there's also an app called the Global Coherence App that allows us to measure how coherent not only are we are personally, but collectively, people using the app together. It's kind of a cool new advancement of HRV technology that allows us to look at the group level.

So the Global Coherence App, you install it and I haven't looked at this in a long time, so I'm suppositioning it or whatever, I'm guessing it here, but so you install the app and then you can see when everyone else is doing a meditation, you can look at the group of all the people doing it and see how coherent we are with each other. I should install this app.

I guess it's pretty cool bringing these things together. The global monitoring system of the Earth's field. Global Consciousness Project. And we're also measuring trees globally, the electrical activity of trees. So I'm suggesting all living systems are interconnected energetically by the fields we live in that we're able to enable a new generation, if you will, of the science of interconnectivity. One of our sayings has kind of emerged out of the Global Coherence Initiative is becoming aware of what we're feeding the field, because that's what we're feeding the DNA and all of our cells. The DNA is, in my world is an antenna that is directly affected by our vibrational state, the quality of our consciousness. We're also radiating it into the external environment. And when we're in sync, we are connected to the larger field of the Earth in a bi directional way. Making sense, Dave, what I'm trying to say here. So we're trying to measure all this at the same time.

It makes so much sense. And I. I became aware of a lot of this in part because I've traveled around the world and studied meditation and spirituality with different lineages. But really one of the core things was just seeing a signal on my screen from HeartMath and just understanding this and then going down and doing it with EEG, which I actually did before I did HeartMath. And one of the reasons I spent six months of my life with electrodes glued to my head and I teach people to do it at 40 years of Zen is that I found that my. I call it the meat operating system in the body, it was automatically sending garbage out there without my really consent. And it was doing that because it got programmed to do that through growing up in a human body. Right. Anyone who's been a child is going to have some of this because you were pissed off you didn't get to have, you know, chocolate instead of peas when you were 2. I mean, like, like your body's kind of dumb. So it. It's also beautifully engineered, but it's set up to survive if you're not in there. So going through this process of removing automated hate signals that the body makes. Or instead of peas when you were two, I mean, like, like your body's kind of dumb. So automated negative signals that it makes so that you can have a clean signal. And it improves the quality of your life so dramatically. And my goal became to find the people who were affecting the most. People either energetically because they're strong senders. You and I know people like that, or people who are affecting others because they have tons of power or fame or money and to make them more conscious in their use of those physical world tools. So I have this group of people who come through who are like, my psychic powers are waking up and, you know, they're raising the X wing fighter with their hand. Okay, not really, but these are like people who are spiritually very potent or people who are. I'm changing the world. I have a billion dollars. I want to be more conscious in how I act around my family and my employees, my investments. And both of those groups, they're different, but they're both changing the world in a big way. And those are the ones who need the cleanest signals.

Yeah.

How would someone listening to the show right now, who's going, my mind was just blown. How would they start? I mean, should you start with heart rate variability training? Should they install the global coherence app I just installed? Like, what's. What's step one?

The global coherence app, in a way, Dave, is a kind of advanced.

Yeah.

For people who kind of already are way in that waking up process, who really gets that? What we're feeding the field matters, you know, beyond what we can measure. I think we're at a crossroads in a certain way in the evolution of human consciousness, because consciousness does evolve. And when we become conscious agents in our own evolution, that's when things like what we're talking about today become important and matter. We start to Understand that from my perspective. So I would say coherence training is the first place to start. How do we become more coherent in our own bodies and our own physiology, more aligned with who we really are at our deeper levels. And there's a lot of tools to help facilitate that. So like the apps and the heart rate variability, coherence feedback is a facilitation tool for us to learn how to shift into coherence, like when we're meditating. But that's training wheel level from our perspective.

It's just step one.

It's how do we maintain that inner coherence right now, I mean physiologically and emotionally, when the blank's hitting the fan, as we're navigating day to day life, the traffic jams, the difficult people we have to interact with, whether it's we're into sports. Right. We want to perform better, get coherent. Right.

Yeah.

So it becomes a way of life. And as we do that, that literally, you use the word reprograms our physiology to this becomes our new normal state. In our language we call it. We've shifted our internal baseline to that becomes the new familiar. And that's when this is transformational.

It's so transformational. And what I found in my own path, having had chronic fatigue syndrome and toxic molecules, mold poisoning, and basically poorly functioning mitochondria, I believe that our mitochondria are the distributed antenna array that makes all of this happen. They're curiously most dense in the heart and the brain and the ovaries even more so if you're so equipped. And we don't need to decide whether that's. We agree on that or not. But in my experience, when I increase mitochondrial function, it becomes much easier to have a coherent signal. So having working power plants and electrophysiology, because wait, those are where electricity comes from. And we're talking about electricity and electromagnetic fields here. It seems like I can be more coherent when I make enough energy. And when I make enough energy and I'm coherent, I can send it a lot further.

Absolutely, Dave, I would agree with you. In fact, when I talk about coherence training, it's a language we're using here in our trainings and what we certify people in to go teach heart math around the world, thousands of.

Yeah, I'm certified.

Yeah, yeah. Well, it's really. Well, then you would know. It's really in the language of energy management. That's really what coherence training is about, is energy management. And so many of us waste our energy oh God, yeah. In ways that we don't yet understand. So it's really about how do we stop draining unnecessary energy drains, but also how do we start accumulating more energy? Because we have to have that energy. From my perspective. Well, first of all, just past basic human function, in fact, there's a study, it was published last year with one of our collaborators at the University of Lithuania, who took close to 500 people and measure what's called basal metabolic rate or resting metabolic rate. It's also called how much energy does the body have to have to maintain basic functions at rest? Is what that's a measure of. And guess what they found? They found that when the resonant frequencies and one of our magnetometers is there in Lithuania, when the power of the resonant frequencies is higher, our resting metabolic rate decreases. You get what I'm saying? When we're in sync with the rhythms of the earth, right down to the cellular metabolic, mitochondrial, if you want level, we are functioning more efficiently.

It makes so much sense if you think about it. When you're taking the efficient path, it requires less energy. When you're forcing a signal through an inefficient path, it takes more energy. So you have to eat more food to do the energy. Because you didn't resonate well.

Yeah. The reason we chose coherence as the definition of the physiological states that we were seeing, we spent actually on my advisory board back then, which is pretty famous group of people. It took us a couple of years to land on the word physiological coherence to describe the effects we were seeing in the lab. And one of the reasons is that one of the hallmarks in a coherent system is energy efficiency. A coherent system is an energy efficient system that's stable in that way over time. So anyway, I totally agree with you and resonate with you and some of our being drawn to share this. I don't know, you're just drawing this out of me, Dave. For some reason, things I don't normally talk about.

Yay.

Some of our earlier 90s, back in the early 90s, some of the first stuff we did actually we got into intentionality studies and we found that we were using DNA as the target. Can we intentionally change DNA? And one of the things that you can measure about DNA, it was actually a great target because you can measure how wound or unwound the strands of DNA are UV spectrophotometer and very well established real science. Yeah. And anyway, we did spent about two years doing this. We had brought in healers we brought in students from UCSC or people off the street. I mean, all a couple years, these experiments, after we validated the method, at the end of that, we found two things were important. First of all, that you can consciously and intentionally interact with and change. It's called the conformational state of the DNA. And why it was so neat is you could intend for it to wind or unwind. Right. It wasn't just a simple on off kind of experiment. And two things were important for people to be able to reliably make that experiment work. Coherence and intention.

Who would have thought?

But there's a big takeaway here. So our vibration, I'm going to call it our energetic state, our emotional state, which really is a vibrational system first. And that's what tells the hormones and all the other stuff to change. Right? In the body is also in communication with our DNA.

There are unusual shamanic and energy medicine states that you can go into to look at actually. Well, you're not looking with your eyes, with your inner eyes, you're looking at your DNA. We know how to do that and to look at other cell structures inside the body and all that. But I don't think any of those states are accessible without coherence.

What's my point? We showed that in these experiments. Yeah, you proved it, you know, because coherence is, you're putting a coherent signal into our own bodies and out into the environment. It really gets kind of simple at the end of the day, right?

It is simple. And it works into our language too. I mean, I have lots of friends who will say, yeah, I'm vibing with that. Like, oh, we're vibing together, right? Vibrating, resonating, same thing, right? And you were just asking like, you know, why are you talking about these old things during the same view? It's because we're vibing. Like, I can sense what our energy stuff does when we get to hang out and like, oh, cool. It's like two old nerd friends get to hang out and, you know, figure out stuff that we didn't know we were going to say. And I think that's art of being a good interviewer too. All the great interviewers out there figure out how to align their energy with who they're interviewing so that something new will come out. Otherwise, it's just like doing a prerecorded dance kind of thing. So assuming that people are still following that, you can edit your DNA or at least be aware of it or control how it it does these things. We're getting into the realm of epigenetics.

Yeah, exactly.

Guys like Bruce Lipton and Dawson Church who are friends who've been on this show, in fact, biohacking, to be really clear, is just a restatement of epigenetics. Change the environment around you and inside of you so you have full control of your own biology. Isn't that what epigenetics is, is how the environment affects your genetics? Well, yeah, yeah.

Babies above, outside the DNA.

Yeah. It just maybe made epigenetics cool.

Bruce lives 13 miles from me.

Of course he does. It doesn't surprise me at all. There's a whole hotbed in the Santa Cruz mountains there of all the cool stuff. What about Joe Dispenza? He's a friend who's been on the show. He talks a lot about coherence. When you go to do one of his advanced workshops, which clearly I've done because I'm talking about it, you end up looking at EEG brainwaves and alignment of groups of people and all this stuff. It seems a bit more brain versus heart based. But he's got his idea that, you know, you send a, a signal from the brain and pick it up with the heart. The heart is a receiver versus a transmitter. Go a little bit deeper than that.

I'm not sure Joe would, would, would say that. You know, I, I've been working with Joe on a research level for many, probably well over 10 years. Wow. I'm more like 15. And we've done a lot of work with Joe's groups. God going 10 years ago, we had them wearing 24 hour HRV monitors, devices with actually hundreds of people over the years and looking at what happens and he kind of got into coherence. He actually acknowledged this in a talk he gave for one of our events because of us, where he got into the heart, brain, coherence. He talks a lot about it and openly talks about the work we've done together. Anyway, what we were doing work to find some really cool results came out of the monitoring people's hrv, the healings they went through. We go back and look at the coherent states they were in that led up to that event and a lot of cool stuff like that more recent work. In fact, we just published a paper, took some doing to get published because it was so outside of the consciousness or the familiarity of the reviewers. For it's a pretty high level journal where we looked at the energetic synchronization amongst the healers and the healing groups that Joe does. So we were monitoring all the healers and the Healey heart rate variability and showing that during certain phases of that process that people go through that there as a type of energetic complexity matching, if you will, is what the measure was. It's a nonlinear measure of the HRV that occurred and that we just got that published literally a couple weeks ago.

Wow.

In a pretty high level journal of nonlinear dynamics. But it took, you know, I mean these are math. You were saying a bit earlier engineers, it was kind of like, you mean physiology is we can apply these tools and show this. And yes. Anyway, it is published now.

So for people who haven't been to Joe Dispenza workshop, part of what you do there is you'll get six people lined up around someone who wants a healing and person could be really sick or they could just have a problem and they lay there. And then the people around them use what they've learned in the workshop to go into a coherent state with each other and to do their best to channel healing. And I've done this several times and it's a very potent experience because when you get that number of people feel something happen as a healer and the results that they're getting on healings are really, really profound. And what I think is going on is all of the eight people, if they have enough skill, they line up close enough to amplify each other's signal and then to go in and fix stuff.

Now let me add something to that. You're absolutely correct. How it now imagined those eight and then the ninth person in the center that you have usually 100, 120 of those groups all at the same time. Doing this at the same time creates.

A giant vortex problem.

It's a huge energetic, coherent field. In fact, that's kind of what Joe and I are. One of our goals is to one step at a time, but to ultimately be able to look at the meta coherence level of the larger group. So that's actually the hypothesis that I, Joe, I suggested to Joe. So we're starting by looking at the groups, which is what we just got published and established. We had to invent a new mathematical approach to look at energetic synchronization. And that's my some really smart people that University of Lithuania I work with that. Wow. Are experts in nonlinear mathematics. I'm not.

It's been one of my dreams for a long time, going back to when I first started presenting at Quantified Self. And then now I've run the biohacking conference for 10 years. But I want to be able to put a heart rate variability tracker on each person and have them all sent into a single system so that when I'm speaking I can see the audiences.

We can do that now.

Yeah, I just never have done it, so maybe. Okay, for my next conference, we should have about 3,000 people or something. By the way, guys, biohackingconference.com it's going to be in Dallas, I think at end of. End of May, but maybe a subset of people if. Because it's probably a lot of sensors. But I'd love to be able to show the audience the shared coherence while they're in the room because I know we create a giant, like happy, amazing creative field when we're there.

So here's two. So I'm just kind of tip of the iceberg of what some of the work we're doing with Joe. But one is we could literally do that. We also have what we call for field research, a stack of new GCP 2.0 RNG devices. Really cool thing. It's a stack of these things, all the lights flashing and stuff. So one of the recent events for with Joe, we actually put one on stage.

I want one of those to show people that. Oh, fun.

So we can do that in real time. You can see the local effects. With a stack of RNGs, you get the network effect.

Do you want to speak at the next biohacking conference?

I'm certainly open to talking about it, Dave.

All right, as long as. As long as you're free, then I'd love to have you on stage to talk more about gcp. I think it'd be so much fun.

It would be. And.

All right, we'll talk offline.

Let's take that offline and see what are, what are the various maybe researchy kind of things we can do.

I can tell you, with thousands of biohackers in the room, we're always up for research because you know it works, because you can see it work, you can sense it work and you can get the results. But we don't know causation for some of this stuff. I think it's almost all quantum when you get down to it.

Means you say that it's actually really hard to make a random number generator.

Yeah, it is. As a computer scientist, absolutely.

It's in fact, we, who we worked with for the GCP2 devices, these new devices are some of the world's experts in cryptography. And again, really smart guy is way smarter than me in that field. But here's the point you mentioned quantum. So I mean the whole point about a random number generator, for those that don't know this is you cannot use the past behavior to predict the future. Right. And that's really hard to do that. There are rhythms that show up in things when you get really. But it's a quantum. A literal quantum tunneling process that we use at the front end of these devices to make the random number generator.

Oh, so you're doing some of the purest stuff ever. And. And non nerds would never think about this, but in order to get a random number, you normally need like a seed, something random that it starts from.

That's pseudo random.

Yeah, it is pseudo randomness. But even at that level, the rsa, like the big encryption company a while ago, you wouldn't know this, but the nsa, you know, the government spook side of things, they poisoned the seed for all encryption so that they could break it and no one else would know. And I know because the CTO of RSA told me this over dinner. So they had to go through and replace billions of those little keys for your bank because the government kind of broke it. That's how big of a problem randomness is. And again, that was pseudo random. And you're creating actual randomness via quantum tunneling. Wow.

Right? Yeah. Which is kind of neat because if we think of quantum tunnel, the mechanism is going to end up being really cool once we really sort it out. Because how is it that our collective emotions and it's not thoughts. Dave, this is so important and I just got to say this. I know we're getting short on time, but when we look back on the GCP1 data over 25 years, the events that happen, that evoke people to feel more compassion, more love, these types of emotions have a significantly greater impact on the global field as measured by this network than events that evoke hate or just a lot of emotion, like at big sporting events and things that tells us something right there about mechanism. But how is it that our consciousness is interacting with these processes? And the fact that it is a quantum level process probably is also telling us something about consciousness. Right? I'm not sitting here claiming I know all the ABC details and the physics of that.

Yet what I believe is that with the knowledge that you are putting together, the knowledge we have from heart rates and heart rate variability and EEG and breath rates and respiration, all the different biohack things, you put those together, especially when you can use AI to help analyze the signals to find the patterns that Maybe we didn't see that. We're on the edge of making it way easier to become more conscious than it ever has been.

Yes. And I. And that's why I brought up intention a while ago. Once we start understanding that we can interact with our own consciousness to consciously evolve ourselves physically, mentally and emotionally, it becomes a new world. At least our world becomes new and transformed. But as enough of us do that, we are transforming the larger world. And that's really why GCI exists to begin with. It's really about the evolution of collective consciousness.

Wow. It's a very powerful thing. And I remember when this was first starting, one of the first videos I ever shot, I ended up not putting it out there because I had just bought back when phones didn't have good enough video, I had bought some kind of little handheld digital video thing. It's gotta be 15, 20 years ago, maybe 15 or so when I was just starting the blog and I filmed you somewhere or another talking about just the very beginnings of this project. And here we are about 15 years later where you've got the random number side of it, you've still got the magnetometers and yeah, the amount of research you've done on human consciousness and the underpinnings of reality, it's pretty impressive. Roland, I don't know if you ever step back and go, look what I just did. You ever do that?

Not too much. I tend to be more in my own kind of personality, I guess, or consciousness. I'm not really past oriented. I'm more now future oriented.

Same here. It's like what's happening right now and where is it going? That's what futurists do. And I would put you in that category for sure. Thank you for all your work in the world and for just being curious and taking your deep engineering knowledge and applying that curiosity towards us instead of building better cell phones. Because it turns out they're both important.

Yeah, absolutely.

If you'd like to learn more about Roland or specifically about this kind of work, the Global Coherence initiative, go to heartmath.org gci for global coherence Initiative. And that'll give you sort of a set of all the tools and stuff we've talked about. This is real. And you know, you are an electro magnetic physiological being.

Indeed. Yes. You know, and if people want to really learn, I mean the science nerds, we have a great research library. I would say Science of the Heart would be a great starting point. If you're into the science.

The book Science of the Heart.

Yeah, it's a, it's available ebook or hard copy I think still as well. It's amazing. It's many hundreds of thousands of reads and downloads. But if you want the practical stuff, how do we really improve our day to day life? I'd say Heart Intelligence would be my, my recommendation.

That's another fantastic book and it makes a some very important points about the interconnectivity of the heart and the brain. And you'll hear some similar things from probably influenced by you, from when you go to Joe Dispenza, like the interactions between your heart and your brain, they're real. We've had multiple podcast episodes about where intuition happens. There's also the gut that's in there. So you feel intuition in your body, you don't think intuition in your brain. And some major parts part of that.

So that's a whole other line of our research on the electrophysio electrophysiology intuition we published back in the late 90s, early 2000s.

There you go. So you're, you're always at the front of it, the forefront of it actually Roland. So I, I greatly respect your work and can't wait to hang out soon.

All right, well, let's chat about your conference. That sounds like that could be fun.

Okay guys, thanks for listening to this episode of the Human Human Upgrade. If you liked it, well, maybe get more coherent and I'm just going to drop a little hint for you. If you have enough minerals in your body, could it be that your cells will work better, which would make it more efficient, which would maybe make it easier for you to shift into coherence? I think so. That's why if you drink Danger coffee, it comes with a boatload of minerals in there for a very good reason. Because hey have an electricity, lights and minerals. It matters for a lot of things, including the quality of your interactions with reality. I'll see you soon.

Thanks, Dave.

You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey.

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