How a Celebrity Trainer Rose to Success – Jason Walsh : 1138

You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey, formerly Bulletproof Radio. You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. Today we're filming in beautiful Beverly Hills, site of one of the Upgrade labs for many years. And this is a chance to talk in person with one of the most sought after celebrity trainers on earth. And when I say celebrity trainer, just like celebrity, we'll say nutritionist. I'm always kind of like, what's your qualifications here, dude? So I went deep before I decided to talk with Jason Walsh. Jason's trained Oscar winners. You've maybe heard of Justin Timberlake or Jake Gyllenhaal and Brie Larson and so many more. 30 years of working in the field, 20 of them in LA, with studios saying, you know, this person with this body and this background needs to look this way by this date. How are we going to do it? And so he's got a unique perspective that's from a true expert in the field. And working with celebrities means either that you're good at schmoozing. We'll figure that out. Or whether you're actually the best in the field. Because it's like, are you a vet or do you work on racehorses? And I look at celebrities and musicians. They're basically human racehorses in that every minute they're spending on stage or performing is really expensive. So the world's best has to work on them. So we have a lot to learn from people who are working in that field and helping celebrities reach whatever their goals are for a specific film or for a specific performance, because that speaks to biohacking, this idea of changing the environment around you and inside of you so you have control of your own biology. You might have heard of rise nation or rise 3 11, and these are both Jason's. Jason, welcome to the Human Upgrade.

It's a pleasure. Thank you for having me.

All right. I've always wondered, like, when you were 12 years old, say, mom, I want to be a celebrity trainer. When did this come into your universe? Far from, like, how do you even get into that?

You know, it's a great question. And I think that the best justice I can do this is to kind of give you some background into my history, where I came from and where I think that these markers really happened in my life, because I can sit back and think about the certain moments in my life, the crossroads that had such an impact on me, that made me into the person that I am today. I never dreamt of being an entrepreneur. I didn't even know what the word meant. I'm from a little town, Springfield, Missouri in the Midwest.

Did you know Homer Simpson?

I'm not sure it was the same Springfield. I think that was Springfield, Illinois. Okay, got it. But I could be wrong.

They sound the same.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

I have no idea.

You know, I'll take it. No, I'm from the same hometown as Brad Pitt. That's where he's from. It's a good, it's a.

Did you guys hang out when you were kids?

No. No. But I did get to meet him and hang out with him in my late teens, which is interesting story. I got so many stories. I know I'm going to start rambling today, so if I go off on a tangent, just. I'll reign. You just stop me. No, I think that I can tell you two stories that I think are very important moments where I really got a glimpse into who I am and my capabilities. And one of those happened early on. It was like first or second grade, something like that. And I was walking home from school one day and I know this is gonna sound self righteous, but it's a good story. I was walking home from school one day and I noticed this kid that was surrounded by these three older kids. This kid was in my class and it's on this like far field, so it's far away from the actual schoolhouse. And I don't know, there was just. I could tell this kid was petrified. He didn't know what the hell to do. Got these three older kids around him. And you know, I just, I didn't think about it. I reacted and I went over and I put myself between him and this, you know, the lead bully, as you'd call him. And you know, the bully, you know, he went ahead and just started swinging away. But you know, kids don't really know how to fight. Sure, it's a lot of slapping and scratching and all this kind of stuff. So I don't. I just felt. It was almost. It was this, this moment of feeling, it was probably endorphins, but I just felt impenetrable. I felt like I could take anything, you know. And at that moment when the fight was done and I didn't fight back because I didn't know how to fight. I just felt empowered. I just felt incredible from this moment because I knew, you know, I had a decision. But it's really the actions that define who that person is. And I took action and.

Did you get ass kicked?

I guess technically, yeah. There were three guys but you know what? No, it was one. The one guy was the main boy. He's got the two friends pushing him on the henchmen. Right. But that moment really started to define, and it had a ripple effect through my whole life. It's something that just kind of. It turned that switch on, you know, and I gained a best friend from that. You know, the kid that. That I saved. We became best friends. His name's Trevor. And I think about that time often because, you know, it's something that still impacts me to this day.

Wow.

Yeah. It was powerful.

It feels like a lot of guys today have never been in a fight. Like, a huge number.

There's a lot of guys that need to be slapped. But I'm just. That's my opinion.

You know, you're not wrong. You know, I've been in that situation with actually up to eight kids around me. Yeah. Fortunately, being the tallest one and relatively obese, I had physics on my side, so I would sit on them.

Yeah.

But it does help. I mean, you're a big guy, too. But it's funny how much bullying, it affects people way later in life. I see it all the time.

It does.

People are going through 40 years end. This is my neuroscience program. And one of the guys who came through is like, I didn't realize everyone's a 1200 person company because, you know, all of my success is because I was bullied. Like, I'm still trying to prove myself. And he dropped that because it's not a fun way to succeed. It serves you for a little while, that anger. And, like, I'm good enough.

Yeah.

But it sure is painful to do that for long periods of time.

So it doesn't serve you.

I'm beyond that.

You know, like, I. I want to evolve into a person that doesn't need that. And I, for the most part, I'm getting there. I'm 48 years old, and I'm just. I'm getting to the point where it's exhausting.

Oh, yeah.

Exhausting.

You know, are you one of those guys, like, why you walk into a room and you're like, I know where all the bad people are. I know where all the exits are.

Yeah. You size people up. I mean, you. You know, it's. I think it can serve you in that way. It's. It. But it's also a lot of ego. Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I struggle with that. And we'll get into more of the training stuff. Part of it is, you know, you need to. You need to be physically fit. If you can handle yourself. But I just did this. This thing that included, you know, four hours of bjj, including a full contact, full strength each day. Great run by. And I'm not officially trained in that run by a bunch of military guys in Texas, which is super cool. And it's called Sheepdog, if you guys are wondering. And the thing that got me is some of the guys in there had never been in a fight, and they're our age and they. They're rigid. And I've been in way more fights than I'd like to be, and I never threw a first punch in my life. But what you realize really quickly is who's conditioned and who's not, because they run out of energy in, like, five seconds. And then who's trained and who's not, because people are trained don't use any energy to fight, which is.

There's no efficiency.

Yeah. It's kind of shocking, the difference.

Yeah, Right. It's exhausting.

Yeah. And there's, like, a preparedness that you need. That's a physical thing, and then there's the mental thing. And it feels like a lot of people got the mental harm. And what results from that is the mental harm from childhood. If you're hyper vigilant because you can't turn it off, then you have a problem. And I used to be the way you walk into a room, like, where all the threats. And then you go to one of these classes and they're teaching you to be hyper vigilant, but it's not really hyper, it's just vigilant. So there's this interesting sliding scale where if you're always paranoid, but if you just calmly walk into a room and you assess, okay, those are the guys.

You gotta worry about. The ones that are calm and cool. The ones that aren't shouting, you know, or making a big scene. Those are the ones that I wouldn't mess with.

When we were doing full contact, like, we did eight rounds of three minutes the entire time. Like, okay, I can handle whatever. I'm one of the bigger guys that helps. And then this guy was probably 8 inches shorter than me. Like, we kind of got into a stance, and he's positive, and he looks at me up and down. I'm like, oh, this guy's trained. He's a trained wrestler. I mean, he took me down, landed on my face. I got my elbow in his neck, which was good, but still, like, he kicked my ass up and down the street. Because it was the calmness when he just paused and looked at me when you're like, oh man, this is gonna hurt.

Right? But that's what, that's what Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is really rooted in. You know, the Gracies and I actually took Jiu Jitsu for seven years. Oh, so you're pretty well trained. And I actually rolled with Hoist Gracie, who, you know, he chose me to roll with him in front of the class on purpose because I was one of the bigger guys. I was 235 at the time, you know, big and strong. And he made an example out of me. Before I knew I was passed out, he had my gi wrapped around my neck. You know, it was pretty, it was humbling, needless to say, but that's why, that's the beauty of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and how powerful it is now. You're combining those sports with, know, Muay Thai and boxing and wrestling and, you know, these athletes are becoming so multifaceted and very scary kind of people. And yeah, no, it's, I got to, I got a chance to meet some of the Jiu jitsu guys when I was training Jake Gyllenhaal for this movie Roadhouse that's coming out. And yeah, it's, it's. They just have this aura, this energy about them. And I used to work with special forces. I've trained some special forces. All also do that kind of stuff. You know, they're very calm and they're tired. Guys, you know, you un.

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I think the military probably just decides like if they're smaller, they can fit more than a helicopter, they're efficient. But I've never met an operator that's super big like I am or even like you are. But I think that might just be you can't get in a submarine or something.

I'm not sure, maybe, maybe some of that. But I definitely know that it's more about efficiency and the way the body physically reacts and how people can calm themselves and have those types of powers. It's incredible, incredible to be around them. I trained athletes for years and that was really my background in strength conditioning. And it's easy to train the type of people that have that kind of discipline. The yes sir, no sir. It's way easier than training actors who.

You really have to a little entitled.

Well, it's not by the way, I don't think it's that that's not the biggest, you know, step to get over. It's really to get them to buy in because everybody's trying to sell them something, everybody's trying to convince them. People are trying to manipulate, take advantage all the time. These guys have a sixth sense about that though. They can read that. So I think that's one of the superpowers that I kind of developed throughout the years and I can root that into. I was a bartender for years and years and I don't Know, there's a certain amount of empathy and compassion and communication when you have these types of things and you're backed with science and you have these tools in your tool belt and you're able to present this thing in a way, you know, look somebody in the eye and you tell them, I'm gonna get you as stronger than you've ever been. But you've gotta listen to me. You've gotta have that ability to read the room to, you know, talk to these people, convince them, get them to buy in a bit of a sales.

Process, you could see it.

Yeah, you could see it as a sales process. And I think that, that, to me, that's where bartending for so long. And my grandmother was a bartender. She was 83 when she was bartending full time before she. That's cool. Amazing woman, right? And, yeah, it's just, it's, it's. It's. It's a different process. It's a very, very complicated and convincing conversation that you have to have with these guys. Now when I get to this point, 20 years in, you know, my results and what I've accomplished, really speak, you know, loudly as far as my reputation goes. So sometimes that's not the problem. But early on, I've got some great stories, you know, Matt Damon and people like that, that I had to. It was. It was, you know, one of the first times I've really had to convince someone that I had their best interest and I had the knowledge and I was going to, you know, do things differently than what they were used to. Because Matt had worked with, you know, a dozen different trainers, and every single trainer, he told me, he's like, look, this is what we're going to do. I got to get ready for this thing. Going to eat some broccoli, chicken. I'm going to get it on that elliptical, which is a piece of shit.

Yeah.

You know, it's worthless. And, you know, I'm going to get skinny and I'm going to look good on film. And I had to have, you know, this conversation with him and convince him. I just said, you know, once I put him through a screening and I realized where the deficiencies really were, you know, throughout the body. I picked the easiest deficiency, which is his shoulder. Something that had bothered him since he was in his 20s because he played baseball through the football, you know, so he had a bum shoulder. And I decided to choose that path to convince him that I'm different from everybody else that's out here. I'm going to, you know, I'M going to. The pathology of this is going to be way different than anything he's ever experienced. And once I was able to fix that shoulder, just because there was an imbalance, it was weak, you know, stabilizers weren't working, and so on and so forth, it was pretty easy, honestly. And, you know, went to the house and threw a football at him and he caught it and he threw it back. I just did that just because I knew instinctually he's going to want to throw it. And I looked at him, I was like, how's that shoulder feel? And he's like, you son of a bitch. Matt's an awesome guy. I mean, guy has. He's incredibly talented, number one, very intelligent. He's a family man. I think I learned a lot about, you know, being a father, a good father and a family man, being around him, because I grew up with a single mother. She was 17 when she had me. You know, we grew up in poverty, food stamps, those kinds of things. I'm not supposed to be here today. You know, I know that. I know that, you know, I know that society has things in place to keep people like me from exhaling. But these are, you know, this goes back to your friends that you're talking about that you know, are CEOs of companies. And, you know, you either use those moments in your life that keep you down, you recognize it, you do something about it, you decide, you have a decision to make and you have actions to take, and that really separates. You can use that. If I can tell you one more story. Sure. This one was more of a crossroads in my life. And this story, this is a tough one because to me this was do or die. You know, this was stay in Missouri and accept what society has given me or I'm going to do something with my life. And it started. My friends and I, we went to a 24 hour steak and shake in Springfield, Missouri, and these six guys walk in and they started throwing racial slurs at my friend Toby. Obviously he's black, and, you know, Toby, being a cool cucumber, just got up and went over and diffused it. I was amazed how, you know, these guys. You went up to these six guys and diffused the situation. It seemed to go pretty well. Came back over, we're eating, time goes by, These guys finish eating, and as they go outside, one of the guys kind of steps back, real cocky and just says, you know, this really horrendous racial slur. And Toby is, you know, I think that was the straw that broke the Camel's back. And he dropped his fork and he got up and he went out. And at the time, we had these two girls with us. And it was like. I was like, you know, I don't want to. I don't want to get in a fight. I want to go back to the house, you know? You know? Exactly.

Two girls.

Exactly. So I had other motives, but I also didn't want Toby to get his ass kicked by these six guys. I'm a big guy, you know, I figure I'd walk outside and just be like, you know, you guys go on. I step outside, and before I knew it, I was hit blindside with this. I think it was a tire iron.

Jesus Christ. It didn't kill you?

Yeah, nearly killed me, but the guy hit me in the face. And of course I blacked out and came to and I saw Toby. I'm like, what the hell am I doing out here? Toby's out there just beating the shit out of all these guys. He flipped out when he saw what happened to me and reacted. And the other guys reacted, too. But I knew that I just had to get this guy's, you know, license plate. So that was only thing going through my head. And I got the guy's license plate. I walked into the Steak and Shake, bleeding all over the place. My face, I could see my. I could look down with my. My eyes and see my cheek, it was swollen. And of course, went to the hospital, X rays. My face was broken. They said, you could have been killed. Because they came very close to hitting me in the temple. You know, let's cut to the next day. I get up, walk into the restroom, I look in the mirror, and I was pissed. I was so mad. You know, it's sad. I think it gets me when I talk about this. It's just. It's disappointing to see what people are capable of, you know, it's disappointing. But I used that anger to drown out any and all fear in my life. And at that moment, I decided to flick the switch. And it was on this. Game on, you know, So I made my mind up that I was leaving and I was going to go to North Carolina and pursue something that I had been wanting to pursue, which was nutrition at the School of Public Health in North Carolina, Chapel Hill. So, you know, after the healing, the surgery, which, by the way, my face is pretty much all titanium steel plates from here, from the zygote, the orbital, all this stuff.

Terminator thing going on.

Yeah, it was a terminator thing. No, I don't Set off the alarms. When I go through the.

Does it hurt a lot still or is it done?

There's a lot of nerve damage, so I don't really feel anything. Like, when I. I can't feel anything when I go through here and touch. And this. This eye definitely, like, swells up more than the other one when I'm tired. Too much salt. But that moment was. It was critical because I. I think that that was life slapping me in the face and being like, what are you gonna do? So I use the anger. I drown out all my fears and anything that. That kept me from, you know, pursuing what I was capable of. Things that I, you know, I knew that I was capable of. I knew I was a leader. I knew I had, you know, something special inside of me. I just didn't know exactly what it was. So I moved to North Carolina. Within the first year of moving to North Carolina, my dad passes away. Now, if you remember my mom's single mother. I didn't even know my father until I was, I don't know, nine or 10 years old. And my grandmother called me, and I was at a PJ Harvey concert in Atlanta.

PJ Harvey.

I know, it was so. Pj, she's so good. But I was there with my best friend, Derek, and I received a phone call, and my grandmother was just like, hey, I just want to let you know your dad's dead. And it was just such a weird moment for me. I didn't know how to process it because, you know, I was kind of, I guess, apathetic or indifferent towards my dad, but it was the first experience I've had with death, you know, so I didn't know how to process it. So, you know, my best friend Derek, he was like my brother. I looked up to him, my older brother, and he's like, why don't you come with me, man? I'm going to go to Italy. And I'm like, okay. You know, like, that's. Yeah. So I put school on pause. I moved to Italy and I got cultured. You know, this kid from Missouri that didn't have any culture whatsoever. It changed everything.

That's a. Wake up. The world's a little bit different over there.

God, it was such a. You know, I think that, you know, humans, we are, you know, kind of our brain is rooted in, you know, fear and judgment. You know, I think we're born that way in fear and judgment. And the evolution, you know, of our brain is to become compassionate and empathetic and that, you know, it takes the Brain a lot. Something has to trigger that. And me living in Italy gave me that superpower. And, man, I was ready. I left Italy. I was there for almost a year with, With Derek. He stayed because he found a girl and went to Germany and. And yeah, I moved back to North Carolina full of vinegar. And, you know, I was, I was. I knew exactly what I wanted to do. It was awesome. You know, this. It's just amazing to sit back and look at these moments in your life that really, it's opportunity, it's character building, you know, And I can see it now, you know, I knew what was going on. Came back. I went back into school. I started bartending full time because I wanted to pay for school as I went. I went to school part time. I got an internship at strength conditioning program there with the Olympic sports. 450 athletes. Here I am, this guy. You know, like, my background is just work really fucking hard and do like, find the guys in the gym. I've been working out since I was in seventh grade because of sports. I thought I had a secret, you know, it was like I was the guy that the coach picked out. He was like, you're talented, let's make you better. And here's some shitty weights behind the, you know, the curtain in the auditorium. And when you're done with school, you should go in there.

Cement wrapped in plastic weights.

Oh, no, it was worse than that. It was like everything had rust on it. And you definitely needed your tetanus shot before you went in. But he gave me a really rough idea of what I should do. And I just. I worked on a farm when I was in Missouri, and I value hard work and I love, you know, I love physical labor. There's just. It's rewarding. It's not efficient, but it's rewarding. And it teaches you a lot about yourself. These are moments that. And tools that you'll use for the rest of your life. And working on a farm, working out, realizing that it really propelled me and what my capabilities were. I could hit the ball out of the park. I could knock the snot out of the guy. If we tackle football, it just kind of gave me that superpower. And it was something that started that discipline. Discipline is amazing if it's used well. And I, you know, yeah, I think that's where the discipline started for the training. And then getting into the strength conditioning program just started building that foundation. And I was a hard worker. And why did I do well? Because I empathized with the players. I got in the trenches with them. I worked out with them. I looked like the guy they wanted to look like. But athletes aren't necessarily, you know, physically in that great of shape, but they're strong, they move really well. Football players, they have that look, you know, they can do anything they want to do and they have that physicality. So North Carolina happened. It was amazing. I worked under Greg Gatz, who's produced a lot of national champions, the women's soccer team, so on and so forth, baseball team. It just, it was an incredible environment. But I knew that there was a very low glass ceiling working there, you know, So I started searching out people in the hierarchy of strength, conditioning, strength coaches. And I found Luke Richardson, who lived in Arizona, and he invited me out and so I quit my job as a strength conditioning coach and I went back into volunteer work working with Luke because I wanted the knowledge. You know, that level of knowledge is just. He worked with professional football players, special forces. I mean, the guy was. I mean, he was God to me.

Wow. So apprenticeship is something that matters.

You know, people reach out to me and they always, they're, they're like, I want to do what you do. And I'm like, find your nearest strength college. Go talk to the strength coach. Get in there and get some reps. I mean, nothing's going to teach you. You know, school you, you, you learn the science, you learn how to apply the science. Working, you know, in a strength conditioning program or something like that, you know, I think it takes a long time to develop wisdom and experience, and those are things that are always going to serve you, especially if you get to the level that I'm at. I think people read and they understand that I have that. I've been doing this for 30 years, 20 years in LA. And it's something that, it's important.

It's kind of funny. Um, I remember when I was like, maybe 25, I got my first corporate job in, you know, Silicon Valley, right. It's a company called 3Com, if you guys remember that. You probably don't, but they were a big deal in the mid-90s. If you had a. If you had a modem and Modem totally, right. Remember those amazing. And within like six weeks of being there, I'm applying for a director level job.

Wow.

Right. Well, I mean, the VP was like, who do you think you are? Which I think she was more polite than me. Right. But I did that because I didn't know what I didn't know. I'm like, well, I'd want to be Great. And it turns out I've had a pretty damn good career in Silicon Valley, but it took a few more years. Actually not that many more years. But I just needed to understand the way of the land I needed to have. And I did find really good mentors and people who just give me advice. And it kind of drives me nuts now. People are like, well, you know, you just came out of nowhere. I'm like, do you know how many great managers I work for? And all the different stuff that went into it, and it seems invisible. So when someone who's, you know, 19 year old comes up to you, as I want to be you, it took you 30 years to be you, and it took you really, it sounds like 10 years to be the you that could even function in Hollywood.

Right? Yeah. I mean, I won't pretend that, you know, my, my route to where I'm at today is the most efficient. I think, honestly, we live in a world where everybody wants to lie, cheat and steal and take all the shortcuts that they can. And it worries me to get to certain positions. And I've had people that I've brought on to come work for me that really taken advantage of the situation. It's all right, they have to live with that. I took the long road. I built this thing. I came to LA and I wanted to be a pioneer. I brought the phrase, you know, train like an athlete. You know, back in 2005, nobody was talking about that or doing that or making those kind of applications. And it's what set me apart. I knew I had to find something that's gonna set me apart. I had that knowledge and, you know, expertise of being a strength coach. So that's gonna separate me. I'm gonna fix people. I'm going to work on foundational things that nobody was addressing. When I came to la, I went and looked at what other people were doing and it was just, it was like, okay, I get it. I know where I'm at. I know what my capabilities are, what my intentions are. You know, I put people first. My uncle bought me this book that has that I still, I'll go back and read once in a while. You've heard of Yvonne Schounard? The guy, the CEO, the owner, the creator of Patagonia?

Okay, yeah, yeah, got it.

He had this book that he made for his employees, and it was more of a philosophy thing. And it kind of went crazy. And I just, I don't know, man, reading that book. When I came out here, my uncle gave me that book. And it had a very big impact. And I knew that, you know, if I focused on integrity, I knew what I'm capable of. I know what I can do for people. The foundation for me was integrity, putting people first, letting my results and the things that I'm capable of doing speak for themselves, and that's what has propelled me. It's been an organic chain of events that's gotten me to this point. In 2007, with the economic crisis, I've been out here for two years and building my reputation, but I saw an opportunity. I think everybody was scared to death because we were in a recession, but I knew it was my opportunity to get my own space in brick and mortar. And I took this as a retail shop, and it had this office space above it, and I converted that into my first studio. And I wanted to create a space that was safe for the clients that I was training.

When you say safe, you mean, like, not being injured, or you mean, like, not having, you know, needles in the street in front?

Well, I was running sports space out of this gym in Santa Monica. And, you know, it's an environment that's not very conducive to the type of people that I'm training. Because you go in there and everybody's looking over your shoulder, or they'll come up and start talking to you.

Oh, yeah.

Or the actual equipment that they have. Is it really what I want to use?

You need, like, a private space.

I needed a private space, and I wanted to create this environment that didn't have, you know, pictures of me with my clients and quotes on the wall. It was just a beautiful, safe space. It was private. We trained, like, five people at one time. Everybody that came through the door, I vetted. I wanted to make sure that we didn't let any of the creepy people through the doors that wanted to see people or be seen. And it was amazing, but it was risky. It was like the economic crisis, and somehow, some way, I mean, I guess if the Y is big enough, the how is going to figure. You're going to figure that out, you know, and that's what guided me through that, you know, and it was. It was pretty amazing. And it just built. It was an organic thing. And.

And so how big did it get?

I mean. I mean, I had. I was always on projects. You know, I was always away. My job, you know, has really taken me to every single continent in this world besides Antarctica. I've been everywhere doing these projects, which is good and bad. I mean, it's a lot of sacrifice. A lot of hard work. I lost a relationship with someone that I really cared about because I wasn't able to give them what they wanted. I made a lot of mistakes, a lot of mistakes, you know, but all of them with good intentions, you know, I, I mean, well, I want to do great work and I want to inspire people. You know, I have this, I have a gift, a passion, you know, that's how I see it.

So you ended up, you had that one location and it. Is it still open? Like, what happened?

Well, the, you know, rents escalate and it was just in la. It's insane. Don't get me started on landlords because I'm not very.

I shut down the restaurant out there for eight, eight years recently. So the, if not the first one of the first places that was all grass fed and everything and now you can buy grass fed everywhere. But yeah, it was like, rents keep going up and LA is not the place it once was.

It isn't. It really isn't. It's sad, but no. I moved to another space down the road. Beautiful space. It's 4,000 square feet before I had 2,800 square feet. It was cute. It was just, it worked, it was great. But I definitely grew out of it and you know, the landlord and I didn't really see eye to eye, so I figured it was time to move on. And I've been in this new space for a while, but you know, during that time I really wasn't very fond of group training or boutique fitness. And I just, I don't know, I see things differently. I think this is where the entrepreneurial mindset started to really, like, develop because I had cut my teeth on opening my first studio, get a little cocky and now you think you can do anything. And I decided to open this as a passion project. It was called Rise Nation. And it was my attempt at making something that I thought was far superior in the world. Where group training to me is just like low hanging fruit. It's just not good. But I understand there was something about it that is really appealing to people.

So group training, like a bunch of people in a room on spin bikes, right?

The really dangerous stuff where one person's in a room telling 60 people to do burpees and get on a treadmill and sprint their ass off, you know, like. But what the pros of that is that there is community, which is powerful. It's very, it's appealing to people and you get to reach a lot more people than what I do, you know. So if you can put something really great. I knew if I can come up with something that I thought was incredibly safe and effective, then I'm gonna do it. Nobody told me the first rule of owning a business, which is don't use your own money. But I decided to use my own money because I didn't know any different. I don't have a background in business, by the way.

I do. I use my own money because I believe in what I'm doing right. And I use other people's money too. Cause I don't have enough money. Exactly. There's that.

But I started this studio. I had a horrible contractor, didn't do the work, put one person on the job. So I was down there, I was cutting flooring. I wanted to get this place up and going. And I came up with the concept on a plane ride out to New York. I was sitting on the plane and kind of putting pressure on myself to come up with something that I thought was going to be know, fantastic. And man, when you get the, you know, you get the brain moving on something that you're very passionate about and, you know, you get to be creative, it's a lot of fun. And that's the fun part. The hard part comes after you built it and then you're like, oh, how do I get people? You know, I don't, you know, how am I going to get people in here? But the idea came to me on a plane and the climber has. It's the cross crawl motion. It's an innate primitive movement. I knew that you couldn't get hurt on it, but it was really, really hard.

It's also good for your brain, by the way.

That's one of the things. It's actually the only piece of equipment that works both hemispheres of the brain. Right. The crawling motion is something that they rehab people that are paraplegics and they start to get them back, they learn how to crawl.

I had to relearn how to crawl as an adult. I learned how to read when I was 18 months. I just read when I was a kid. I didn't move very much. So I had all kinds of weird movement stuff.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it does it, does it.

So yeah, like my cross crawl was all screwed.

Probably still is big. Tell us, you know, parents to let them let the kids crawl until, you know, it's. It's developmental. But having that knowledge and understanding, I was like, I was like, wow, we're gonna, we're gonna center it all on this, you know, this crawling, climbing motion. But it was really, really hard. It's not something, you know, in my mind, I knew that, you know, it had to be an hour long, and I started questioning that. And I got on the climber and I started doing these tempos to music because I love music. I'm classically trained, and I grew up with music, and it's, you know, it's something that has always been a part of my life, and I appreciate it and love it. But I came up with this tempo training when, you know, with music on the climber and then the creative side started going, what else can we do? How can we make this different? And 30 minutes really kind of hit home. You don't need to train condition for an hour. I wouldn't put anybody through an hour long. It's minimal. It doesn't make any sense.

And it doesn't work because all the data I have is like five minutes. Three times a week is enough. That's what we're doing at Upgrade Labs, right? Yeah.

So this, you know, the climber, that's nearly impossible. We used to torture athletes on it. I figured out a way. I cracked the code on this thing, and it was fun. You got on there with amazing music with these beats, and if you put these different types of songs and. And. And, you know, and back to back, and they have different tempos and you do different moves on it, the workout takes care of itself because you're kind of like dancing. You're getting lost in the music. It's like, lot of fun. And then, you know, I'm. I'm a. I love live music. And I was at a Nine Inch Nails concert, and, oh, I've seen them live once. They're so good. They're so good live.

Reznor can bring it.

He's. He's the man. And it. It impacted me. I was like, wow. I'm, like jumping around, like, I'm getting a workout.

That's a community fitness style.

You know what I'm saying? So it. But the. The environment. So I. I really kind of pushed myself. And we were the first to really implement lighting with the music. It was kind of like an EQ with the music, but it was distracting, so you don't have to focus on how horrible the class was. So this whole thing came together, and it was just a lot of fun. And at a certain point, it sparked interest with Mark Cuban. He reached out. We had a lot of people that wanted to buy it. Man, I wish I would have sold it when I had the chance.

A lot of us have said that before.

You know, it's like, you know, LeBron James was going, we trained Lady Gaga there. It was like this thing was hot and this was pre Covid. So, you know, Mark Cuban came on and I was, I was flabbergasted. I couldn't believe that this guy was going to take interest in Rise Nation. So I flew down to Dallas and you know, I had to pitch all this stuff to him and this board, it's just me. I didn't know what I was doing, but I was passionate about it. I knew everything there is to know about it. Corrected them, told him what was up. He liked it enough that he invested and, you know, Covid happened and just devastated the group training. A lot of people went out of business. You know, I just recently paid off the landlords for different locations that, you know, background. I can't believe nobody's talking about small businesses. And you know, what landlords were able to do on a technicality and just ruin us.

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The US Government has been at war with small businesses in the middle class for a long time. I didn't know this. That was a major, major win for them, Covid. They shut down. So much of the middle class is now poor, and a lot of small entrepreneurs just got taken.

It hurt all of us. Nobody was looking out for us. Nobody was helping us. You know, we didn't have PPP because everybody is, you know, independent contractor. And, you know, so we didn't receive it into funds. And these landlords just. There was no compassion, there was no empathy whatsoever from these landlords. And on a technicality, they came after us. And, you know, it's. It's, it's ruined Rise Nation. It's really, really impacted us.

Do you still have it or are you going to shut it down?

I mean, look, we had, you know, we were before COVID We were expanding, and Mark Cuban was excited and he was ready to invest in our expansion. And we had la, Miami, Dallas, Australia, Melbourne, Australia. We went into the Philippines and Manila, then we went into Denver. We were starting this expansion, and we started a second space in Plano, Texas. And then Covid hit and we had to shut everything down because we also realized after Covid that the game is different. And what we needed was smaller studios that were more efficient. And we're kind of in a waiting, kind of in limbo whether or not to move forward on that or not, which is sad. It's 10 years. It survived a lot. It was an amazing venture for me. I'm proud of it. But sometimes you have to know when the writing's on the wall. You know, I don't have these, you know, that kind of structure. I have really, really smart, good people around me that are looking out for me, who I talk to, which is really nice to have. You know, I never had that before. I was just dumb and got to.

Have the right advisors, man. Yeah, it's kind of like if, if you have one of these, you know, celebrities, like, I don't need a trainer. Maybe you do.

Right. And same thing.

You know, you got to have your people. But the problem that I think you're facing here is one that they don't talk about a lot in entrepreneur spaces and all. You know, you mentioned with celebrities, like, they're surrounded by people who want something from them. Always right. Always. Right. So they take advantage. Well, they get a little bit paranoid because they've all been taken advantage of. Right. And then. So you only can be friends with your really old friends who still are suspect, or you can be friends with other celebrities because they're already famous and rich. So at least they don't need that from you. Right. So it's, it's crazy.

It's a weird environment.

I haven't worked with as many as you, but. But plenty. And entrepreneurs have the same thing, even if you're a relatively small entrepreneur. But it's wealth managers, it's people providing services for entrepreneurs and, you know, even a lot of investors, Venture investors. Yeah, right. They'll come in and they'll do the same thing. And so there's that same level of. That same level of like predatory energy. Like, what's in it for me that goes towards, you know, a young, hot founder.

Yeah.

Even though I guess neither one of us is young, but we're still hot founders anyway. And so I've. I've noticed that. Yeah. Over my career. And it's, it's a little disconcerting because they don't really warn you about it.

Disconcerting is disheartening. I have been taken advantage of so many times. I understand, I understand why people are so upset. And you know, there's. From the smallest to the largest, there's a lot of corruption, there's a lot of lying in the media. So people have a really hard time understanding what is right, what is true. You know, I've been taken advantage of. The first person that I had that was managing my money took total advantage of me and 70 some year old lady, you know, and I had total trust and blindness. You know, I was just blind trust, blind faith. And she took full advantage and didn't do her job and nearly ruined me. And then after that, I had a lawyer who was the communist. And these guys take an oath, you know, they're supposed to do the right thing and work for you. And he saw an opportunity because, you know, Mark Cuban came On. And, you know, Mark Cuban was like, look, I'm going to give you this amount of money to pay for your lawyer. I'm going to have my lawyers who are on retainer, do all the heavy lifting. They'll redline it. No big deal. This should be easy. So, you know, all is said and done. Pay the guy the money that Mark Cuban allotted for him, and then I get a bill for $60,000 from him. I'm like, what the fuck? What is this? He's like, oh, these are for overages. And I was like, over for what? Mark's people did all. And this is a practice that he does. I found out, because someone that left his practice because of the amoral crap that's going on, somehow the word got to him. And he told me that this is his business practice that he does. He waits a couple years, he sends you a notice. And most people. What do they do? They settle. Because that's what your lawyers are telling you you have to do, because it's not a lot of money. And I was like, nah. I was like. I was. You don't. You pick a fight with me. And on principle alone. And so I'm still in a legal battle. I'm going to court in March to fight this guy.

Yeah. I used to settle. And I'll just. I'll tell you this. If you do that, it sucks your soul. And I.

Exactly.

I'm perfectly happy to. Absolutely. When someone is taking advantage of the legal system to screw me, it's like, okay, I'm all in.

Yeah.

Like one of us is going to walk away. And I know I'm right.

Yeah.

Right.

You know what it felt like to me felt like that first moment, that first story I told you about the bully.

It's abusive bullying from. From all these just stupid lawsuits.

I'm not going to put up with it.

So, ultimately, this is a hard thing for entrepreneurs because we want to focus on our business, and you actually want to focus on making the world a better place. And you get a predator, like, just go away.

Yeah.

But I've just changed my tune towards that. I'm like, all right, I am willing to sell everything I have and pay my attorneys. And, you know, at the end of the day, if you're still there after I've spent everything I have fighting you, then we're gonna have to talk about it in a different way.

Right.

But the bottom line is I'm not a victim, and I didn't want to be a victim. Yeah.

And I started feeling that weird like, victim mentality. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's not because of that. But I also did not want that feeling of being a victim.

I've had people embezzle money multiple times. I've had huge betrayals.

It is.

People would never imagine.

It's a perfect word. Yeah.

And so this is the painful part of being an entrepreneur that you don't talk about. I run a group with Vishen Lakhiani, the guy who runs Mindvalley, and Naveen Jain that's called the Apollo group. It's like $100,000 mastermind. We have a small group, travel places, and, like, the three of us are mentoring them on our. Mentoring our group on, you know, the stuff that they don't tell you about growing and scaling, hitting really big levels and the stuff you hear, man, every successful entrepreneur has these things, but we don't usually talk about it because it kind of feels like, you know, you're a victim and you don't want to talk about it. And there's always some, like, shame, like, how could I made that decision? Decision and all.

It's not very motivating either.

No, reality is, you know, we're all doing our best. And at the time, it looks like a good decision. But I can think of at least two decisions I've made, each of which cost me a hundred million dollars that I don't have now. It's not that I had 100 million. I lost it.

But there was a bad but not that bad. Oh, yeah.

Twice, right? Yeah, right. One time, it's like that board seat probably should have made a different choice. Or another time, that one executive I hired should have made a different call. You know, the first time I knew I should have fired that person. I should have fired them, and I didn't. And look at the damage they wrought.

But let me ask you this. Did you see the good. The windows that opened, you know, the good that came from this? Or was it, you know, can you use this? Is it important? Are there lessons to be learned? I'm trying to do that for myself.

Oh, man. You want to do that right now? Let's do it.

Yeah. All right.

This is more what I do in my neuroscience thing. So this is called 40 Years of Zen.

Yeah.

And we've had about 1500 celebrities. It's called celebrity brain training.

Right.

But we make hardware and software that goes on your brain. And what happens when there's something bullying, Whether it's, you know, bullying from an attorney who's, you know, just Making stupid claims because they know that they're going to get something, or whether it's going back to seventh grade, it doesn't really matter. These are traumatic. And, you know, trauma is a word I used to respond to. I was like, don't be stupid. Like, I'm not bleeding. It wasn't a trauma. But you can wound someone spiritually or emotionally, and it's actually an injury, and it needs to heal. But we don't talk about that. We don't see it as an injury.

Right.

You date a narcissist or work for one, and, like, they will harm your soul. Right. And they're not even aware they're doing it half the time. Sociopaths are aware, but not sociopath. Yeah.

Yeah. A lot of those out here.

No kidding right there. Flock to it. So you're in this situation and you're. You now can do what you did when you were younger. You're like, all right, I'm going to. Like, I'm going to use the anger as a spark to change. The problem is that most people use anger as a fuel source, not a spark, right? So if you use anger as fuel, it'll burn you up, but if you use it as a spark, it'll create change.

Right?

So then after you've got the motivation, the surge of cortisol, adrenaline, and like that, like, I will not let this happen again.

Right.

Well, then you have to go to. This is my most recent book. I wrote about it. It's called the Reset Mode. And it's the core of what we're doing in 40 years is in. It's forgiveness. So what you do.

Oh, that's a good one. I need. I. I need to learn this because it's hard, man. I don't want it anymore. I know that. It doesn't serve me, you know, I know that this is really.

It's the feeling.

Yeah. But there's. There's a couple people, though, that I'm just like. I can drop. I can. I can drop all these things, but these two things really, really, you know, pissed me off. Really hurt me because they took advantage.

And they hurt you every day. And it's the betrayals that hurt the most.

Betrayal, man.

Like, it's someone you trust. You let them into your inner circle, and then you're like, did you do that?

Yeah.

And I. I had one.

The worst.

I had one employee. I. I looked at her and I. And I said, she had told me, we're going to lose a couple million bucks. We lost more than $20 million. And it was a total surprise. And I'm like, did you just burn through all of my venture funding?

Wow.

Like, in one year and every week tell me we weren't doing it. And that was just shocking. But the big thing was, it wasn't my fault, because I'm a good person.

Well, nobody wants to take accountability.

Yeah. And then it was like, I don't.

Even know what that word means.

At the very end, when I was like, okay, this job is over to here. You should give me more stock options.

Oh, yeah.

I'm like, why? The answer was so disturbing because it wasn't the answer of a healthy person. And I just, okay, it's on me. I let this happen. I didn't have tight enough controls. I had too much trust. Whatever it is on you, and it's on you too. Right? You let these guys in. So what you do, this forgiveness thing isn't to say what they did was all right. It's actually an energetic shift in your brain and in your heart at the same time. Right. That's what we teach with the electrodes on your head. But what you got to do is you got to forgive the other person and processes in the book. It's easy enough to do, but it's actually not that easy for this. Sometimes you need coaching, and then you turn around and you forgive yourself. And forgiveness, it's just turning off the reactivity to it. It's a thing you do in your heart. There's a specific sensation to it. And when that happens, you can talk about it. You can look the person in the eye, and there's no energy at all in the body. It's just something. Same thing like the guy who whacked you in the head. Same thing there. Like, you got another one there. I could see that. So when you do that, it's weird. It's like your body is processing all this. It's always looking for the next threat. It stops doing that. So then you can be at peace with it.

Right.

And then you can move on, and it's just lighter, and everything in life feels easier.

I want it.

Well, if you want to come up to 40 years of Zen, I know a guy. But the other thing, you could try at emdr. You ever heard of that? You can do EMDR for business drama. No reason you can't. So that might be a way to just take the edge off. But, yeah, the amount of betrayal, even from family, that I've experienced as I became more successful, it's pretty shocking. And I could walk around wounded with that. Or I could walk around with wisdom from that.

You see a lot. I don't have the family scars that most people do. Most people I know have some kind of trauma from their childhood. Girl I date, for example, I don't know things like an employee. This is an example of an employee that I put in, you know, gave him the opportunity to train Lady Gaga at Rise Nation Music dancer. And at the time, good kid, you know, mentored him. He became a very good trainer, or a very good instructor, I should say, not a trainer. And then all of a sudden, I get a notice that he was going to be leaving and going with Lady Gaga on her tour to train her. The guy didn't know how to train somebody, but he lied to her and told her that he was a trainer. And so when I spoke to him, I was like, when did this happen? Because, you know, as far as I know, you had a dance background. He goes, I'm a dancer, Jason. I know how to do this. You know, like more or less, like just shit all over, you know, the years of experience and, you know, knowledge that I have and thinks that he can take on this mega, you know, very, like, you know, expensive and wealthy and a huge product project with Lady Gaga. And I'm just like, who? Who? Why? Who does this? And of course, once Lady Gaga's people found out about it, because Bradley Cooper, you know, I trained Bradley Cooper and he's close to Lady Gaga. And I was like, I can't believe this guy thinks he's gonna train her. He doesn't know what he's doing, you know, and it's a big responsibility. Doesn't see it. He just wants that. He wants to take advantage a celebrity. Yeah, and she fired him and he came back and. And beg me just, you know, and here I am thinking, I'm going to forgive this guy. Wow.

Did you let him back in?

I forgave him and I thought, wow, if he's got the, you know, the balls to come back and actually confront me.

He fucked you twice as hard the next time, didn't he?

He fucked me twice as hard the next time because he was resentful and he had a plan in mind. And so, you know, once we. He found out I was coming to the studio to fire him, he just didn't show up. He had a room full of people. He just left them there. He didn't even like, oh, it was horrible. He was just shitty. What a shitty fucking person. You know, like, it just sucks. I mean, he's Got his motives. But then he went and worked for the company that I actually put on the map, which is, you know, Versaclimber. And he gave them my trade secret, just this whole thing.

You know, I have a similar situation with an employee not at Bulletproof, another one. You know, I took this person under my wing, they lied straight to my face and then let the person go. And to this day she's out there saying she did all sorts of work for me she never did. Using my name and then saying bad things about me while using my name. And I'm like, this is so bizarre because gave you a shot and the accountability's not there. The mistake that you made there because you asked me to help out on this stuff, it was forgiving. So it's that you don't understand what forgiveness is. And this is something I really have had to work on. This is at the core of why I do that part of my business. Forgiveness isn't ever speaking to the other person again. Forgiveness isn't ever telling them you forgive them. Right. And it's not condoning their action. It's just changing your energetics so that it doesn't hurt anymore so you don't hold the grudge.

Right?

Right. So what you learn over time, and this is why I do the mentorship thing with the Apollo group too, is that if I had the right mentorship or maybe if I had the humility to listen to the mentors I did have, then I would have known that for this type of person, the only thing to do is sever ties and no communication. There is no upside to trying to fix a narcissist, trying to repair it, because their whole operating system is to create an emotional trigger on you. They don't care if you're happy or sad. They just want to be in control of you so they'll do something. And because you're a good person, you're going to say, well, let me do something that helps you. And you expect them to help you back. And then when they screw you, then you help them again to show. Because it must be a mistake because you know that healthy normal people, you help them, they help you. And that's what builds society.

Well, so we thought.

So what happened here, it was predictable because there's that first betrayal. It's like, okay, I'll do something nice again. Because you're a good person, because you're forgiving, you thought forgiveness meant giving them another chance. What forgiveness was, was you being non reactive and you also having boundaries and respect for the other people on the team. So when I had. I see that situation in the people I'm mentoring or in my own companies, no, I'm sorry, you're out. And it's different than someone who makes a mistake. It's someone who betrays you. You don't get a second chance.

Right, right. That's a very important distinction. Mistakes versus betrayal. Because it's premeditated.

Oh, yeah.

You're dealing with someone who's got more of a psychological issue than the premeditated stuff.

And if this is going to happen all the time, if you ever get in a legal situation, you see the level of premeditation. I mentioned a family member. I had a family member, absolutely premeditate, to steal one of my business out from underneath me. And after we did all the discovery and we saw the stuff, I'm like, holy shit. I thought you could trust family. And the bottom line is, no. Every person's a person. Doesn't matter if they're family. Yeah, right. Yeah.

God. You know, it's. It's. It's nice to hear. I mean, tough, but it's nice to hear that I'm not, you know, alone because I don't. I put my head down every. I don't talk a lot anymore. You know, like, the media, they have a story that they want. And a lot of times when you talk to them, which I used to. I used to think it was really important to do these things, and now I don't as much anymore. But they control the narrative and they're gonna put what they want, no matter what, they chop it and they edit it into these things, and it's just so disappointing. So I'm like, just decided to start removing myself from, you know, I don't want to educate people. I don't want to put videos out there. I don't want to do all these things. I just want to do my work, work on my projects. And then, you know, Nation was a great, like, addition, and it kept me very busy. It definitely educated me in a lot of ways. Brought a lot of really bad people to the surface, to be completely honest. And I learned a lot from that, you know, and, you know, I just started another company, Rise311. I recognized that it was built out of necessity, actually, because my clients couldn't digest whey protein or whey protein isolate, the gold standard. Been taking protein since the 80s, so I know all about it. And so I just, I reached out to a friend of mine that understands sourcing and the way of putting you know, elements together to create really great products. And, you know, he's ethical and he's a good person. And so I talked to him and you know, another friend of his and we had this idea to create a plant based protein that had all of the benefits away, which didn't exist at the time and still doesn't. I mean, now it does, but that was the motivation. You know, it was like if you, if you, if there's some, there's nothing out there for you and you need something and create it. That was. Yvonne was the, was the guy who kind of sparked that because he created, you know, gear for climbing out of necessity and created a whole empire on it.

Well, I mean, Bulletproof Coffee. Back when I ran that company, when I started it, it was, I need my brain to work. And. Right. I'm, I'm very happy with Danger Coffee now, which is my new coffee company. But same thing, you know, you evolve and you grow and so what you needed there was some good protein. And so I'm still skeptical that plant based is going to be the equivalent of whey, but I'm willing to be proven wrong.

You know, I'll make sure that I bring some to you and I'll let you try it and I'll talk about the science behind it.

Good deal. I'm up for the conversation.

I was the same way. I'm like, you know, because whey or plant based, you know, all the protein gets bound up in the fiber. Yeah.

And all the other shit that's in plants that you don't want to put in your body on a regular basis. Exactly. Or at least not in large amounts.

I look forward to it.

It'll be fun. But you said something in there that was interesting. You talked about kind of feeling lonely. And what's creeping up on you is bitterness. Because when you take a certain number of hits, even if you have an open heart and you're looking to be of service and all that stuff, you're like, man, it's not worth it.

It only takes so much.

Yeah. And that's why you have communities of entrepreneurs who work together. Most people don't hear about that kind of stuff, but it's a loneliness because you don't know who to trust. And then you take some hits that are pretty severe. And then if you can master that forgiveness thing, then you can still walk around at peace. And otherwise it builds up and it builds up and it builds up and you get, yeah, you get kind of tighter and tighter and you're like, I just want to do this. But why do people keep screwing with it?

I know. And yeah, you're hitting the nail on.

The head with me.

This is who I am at this point. You know, I recognize it. Which I think is part of the, you know, half the battle. I recognize that I'm getting older and I don't. I want. I want joy in my life, you know, And I. I've been working so hard up until this point, I've left no room for that.

Yeah.

And I've created a lot of bitterness and mistrust. I don't trust anybody. Yep.

You got to bring trust back in.

Yeah.

And this will help you too. You ever see that interview with the founder of Nvidia? You know, Nvidia is right. Largest graphics card chip maker.

Like.

Like $100 billion company or something. This guy started it from scratch. They used to make video game cards, you know, when we were in our 20s. And someone asked him, what would you. What advice would you give yourself when you were 19, when you started the company? And he thought about it and he said, don't do it. I thought that, yeah, build a hundred billion dollar company.

Be a hell of a lot easier to work for somebody else and do the nine to five thing. And it is a lot easier to work for somebody. Yeah.

Yeah.

Problem is, is I've got a lot of opinions. I'm opinionated and I don't want to.

Work for anybody else. Yeah. I'm not meant to work for other people either. So you're in a situation a lot of people get to. And people do all kinds of stuff, vision quests and all these things. But I find that being in a community of people who've also been there before is one of the most powerful things. So you got your recipe. EMDR might help on some of this stuff. Check out 40 Years Zen. And I'm not trying to sell you on this stuff. No, listen now, but that real specific. You gotta pull the barbs out basically so that you can move freely.

It's nice speaking to somebody that knows exactly what I'm going through and what I've been through. It's probably not even an inkling of what you've had.

It's the same level emotional intensity. I can pick that up on you. It's not like the number of dollars changes the level of emotional intensity. It's the same pain. But yeah, I've had several. Just stuff that if people who are fans of the show, if you guys knew all this shit that I've dealt with in the last Five years.

It.

Would not even compute.

Right.

And I'm not saying that to say, look at me, I'm bragging or I'm suffering or whatever, but just that thing. When I started bulletproof, it was bulletproof, the state of high performance. But what was behind it was resilience. And there's biological resilience, and there's emotional resilience, and there's spiritual resilience. So I put a lot of resources into building resilience, and I've dealt with a lot of stuff which has probably made me better at resilience.

But I teach physical resilience, and that's my goal with my clients, is to give them, turn them on, let them understand what true strength is, is. I think everything in the fitness industry is pretty much fluff. It's bubble gum and cotton candy kind of crap. It's an industry that really thrives on the gullibility of the public, and that sucks. I don't want to be a part of that. So what I do want to be a part of is inspiring people and turning them on to what I think is the hierarchy and the strength and the resiliency and what it gives them. It's empowering, and it's amazing to see that switch triggered. You know, I did that with Brie Larson. She couldn't even open a bottle of water. And then by the end of it, she was pound for pound. Alison, Bree, these girls, it's fun training these girls because they don't think that they're capable. They think they're capable of so much. And then you take them beyond that. That's cool. And it's just awesome. It's like, I. That's. That's what keeps me going, is I love those moments.

The way you were there. We're like.

It's just awesome. Awesome. It's just awesome.

You're supposed to be that way all the time.

I know.

And it's the betrayals that take that away.

Yeah.

So you gotta remove the power to do that. It'll take you between a week and three months now that you know the problem there. And it's something you're probably not gonna do by yourself. Like, there's things where you just. You need a buddy, you need a therapist, you need, like, you need help with that. It's really hard to come to those things. Right. And it doesn't take psychedelics.

I look forward to. It doesn't take psychedelics.

No, you don't. You don't have to do it. Some people choose that path. But I'm not opposed to it. I like psychedelics.

I think it was fantastic. I did my concerts and.

Yeah, and maybe that's the way to work on this. You know me.

Yeah, mushrooms are pretty, pretty incredible.

They are, but I don't think mushrooms get to this kind of stuff.

No.

It needs a structured approach.

I've been there before.

It masks Jason, it's been a pleasure to chat with you.

Great, man. I feel like I have somebody in my corner at this point. I really appreciate the advice and I'll take that to heart and work on that. Maybe next time I'm on your podcast, come back and talk about my experience through 40 years.

That's a good plan. We'll do that. And we'll talk about your new protein and I can drink it and make faces.

I, I, I can't wait. I'm going to convince you. I promise, man. Thank you so much, brother. Appreciate it.

You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey.

The Human Upgrade, formerly Bulletproof Radio, was created and is hosted by Dave Asprey. The information contained in this podcast is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended for the purposes of diagnosing, treating, curing, or preventing any disease. Before using any products referenced on the podcast, consult with your healthcare provider, carefully read all labels and heed all directions and cautions that accompany the products. Information found or received through the podcast should not be used in place of a consultation or advice from a healthcare provider. If you suspect you have a medical problem or should you have any healthcare questions, please promptly call or see your healthcare provider. This podcast, including Dave Asprey and the producers, disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information contained herein. Opinions of guests are their own and this podcast does not endorse or accept responsibility for statements made by guests. This podcast does not make any representations or warranties about guest qualifications or credibility. This podcast may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products or services. Individuals on this podcast may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to herein. This podcast is owned by Bulletproof Media. A Human Upgrade, formerly Bulletproof Radio, was created and is hosted by Dave Asprey. The information contained in this podcast is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended for the purposes of of diagnosing, treating, curing, or preventing any disease. Before using any products referenced on the podcast, consult with your healthcare provider, carefully read all labels, and heed all directions and cautions that accompany the products. Information found or received through the podcast should not be used in place of a consultation or advice from a healthcare provider. If you suspect you have a medical problem or should you have any healthcare questions, please promptly call or see your healthcare provider. This podcast, including Dave Asprey and the producers, disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information contained herein. Opinions of guests are their own and this podcast does not endorse or accept responsibility for statements made by guests. This podcast does not make any representations or warranties about guest qualifications or credibility. This podcast may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products or services. Individuals on this podcast may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to herein. This podcast is owned by Bulletproof Media.