How to Build a Better Brain, Brand & Business – Patrick Schwarzenegger : 947

You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey, Formerly Bulletproof Radio, A State of High Performance. You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. I promised you that I would tell you exactly what you're going to get in an episode, so you can decide whether it's worth your time to pay attention to it or whether you want to listen to a different episode, because there's almost a thousand of them to choose from. You might as well make the most of your time, because I really value it, and thank you for listening. Today you're going to hear from a very successful entrepreneur named Patrick Schwarzenegger. And we're going to talk about how entrepreneurs build brands and also, like, health and wellness and biohacking at every age. So you're going to learn something about health, nutrition from someone who grew up steeped in that, as well as some stuff about brains and Patrick's new business, which is Brain Focus, which I'm really excited about because it's taking brain awareness to the mainstream and things about Alzheimer's. That's what you're going to get in this one. It's going to be cool. And Patrick's a very, very knowledgeable entrepreneur.

We.

We've all heard about DNA. I've talked about a lot on the podcast, and I actually think that DNA or maybe some other thing carries through from parents and from your ancestral lineage into people. So if you assume that I might be right about that. Patrick knows a lot from his family and his sister about activism, acting, entrepreneurship, and it's all kind of wired in. So you get it from your upbringing, but you also just get it from, like, it's in your genes, right? If your parents are nerds, you're likely to be a nerd how it is, right? So welcome to the show, Patrick.

Thank you, man. I'm excited to be here.

I remember I sat down with you a few years ago at the Beverly Hilton, and you were working with Blaze Pizza, which you've now moved on from, but you had, like, an enormous number of franchises, and you built that, and you're a pretty young guy, like, you got going. So walk me through what you've done as an entrepreneur. Cause I don't think a lot of the public necessarily knows all of your entrepreneurial successes, which is really cool. You and Paris Hilton, even both are like, as your own entrepreneurs, you're, like, both badasses, but then you have, like, a public presence and people kind of know you as a celebrity versus that. So tell me, like, what an Entrepreneur. You are.

Yeah. Well, first off, the, you know, my first company that I invested in and got to help grow was one called Blaze Pizza. And I knew that I was this kind of struggling customer when I was, you know, 16, 17, and my parents had split up and I started to buy groceries and go to the, you know, go to the Whole Foods and everything like that with my mom. And I was always looking for the healthier alternative. I was looking for all the foods that we weren't allowed to eat growing up in our household, but could I find the ones that were the healthier alternative? And at that time, someone was coming to pitch me a company called Blaze Pizza, which was, quote, unquote, the healthier Domino's and Papa John's. And they were following the craze of Subway and Chipotle and allowing customers to customize their dinner and their pizzas and know where the ingredients were coming from and have transparent glass instead of opaque to see the people making the foods. And I was like, you know what? This is really smart. Pizza's, you know, largely consumed in the US And I'll try it out. So I actually got a loan from. From my parents at the market rate, because if it was anything lower, then it would be considered the gift tax that I would have to pay. And I couldn't afford that at the time. And. And I went in and learned about this. This business, learned about the food business, learned about ingredient sourcing, learned about business operations, operations, management, actually franchising, opening a store. And I got hooked on it, and I decided to open up my own franchises myself. I was part of the corporate company. And then we opened one at the farmer's market here in Los Angeles, then down at. @ USC, where I went to school. And later on, I realized that the franchise model wasn't the best thing for me, but the overall corporation, we grew to almost 400 stores. And that's what really decided my next stepping stone in the business space. Because I saw this opportunity of health and wellness continuing to grow as our customers came to us. And they no longer wanted the Snapple tea. They wanted the purely for the honesty. They no longer wanted the lay's chips. They wanted the kettle of the baked ones. They no longer wanted, you know, the normal dough. They wanted to have these cauliflower crusts and keto crusts and all these different things. And I was like, you know what? This. This is really growing. I'm going to sell out a Blaze Pizza, take all the money I made and go and start my own fund. And Invest solely into entrepreneurs and companies that were providing Americans with the healthier alternative.

Your. Your mom, Maria Shriver, came on the show and we talked about Alzheimer's. And I've been a meaningful donor and raised money to support the women's Alzheimer's movement. Twice as many women as men get Alzheimer's, but we don't talk about it. And you're really interested in brains. Did you get that from. From your mom's interest in brains? Like, where did that come up for you as an area to focus, especially with mosh, which is your newest brain brand?

Yes. So, you know, my mother lost her dad, my grandfather, to Alzheimer's. I think for me, I was, I mean, I remember the whole experience with my grandfather and watching him lose his, his, you know, his memory and his brain and become someone that he wasn't. And it was obviously very difficult to watch. But also from my mom's side, she was devastated by it, but also so intrigued by why this is happening, how this is happening. And she went into full research mode and obviously started the women's Alzheimer's movement and started to write books about Alzheimer's, started to do documentaries, started to do papers, partnered with the Cleveland Clinic. And she was so obsessed with it. And that got me intrigued and interested in learning about the brain. But it wasn't until, you know, Covid started, you know, when it was February, March of 2020, I moved back home with my mom and you know, she was eating certain types of foods and certain types of diets and, and taking certain types of vitamins and functional mushrooms and everything like that. And you know, her whole non for profit organization kind of came to a halt during COVID There were no more events, there were no more, you know, donations really coming in at that time. And I said, you know what, why don't we take my experience in CPG and consumer product goods and food and beverage and mix it with your expertise and knowledge in the Alzheimer's space and create a mission driven brand, something that actually goes out there and educates consumers about what they eat, what they drink, impacts their brain health. And I'll handle all the logistics, operations, et cetera for you and I'll kind of bring this dream of yours to reality and we'll go and raise a bunch of money and impact a bunch of lives.

I love that. Now, are you operating the company because, I mean, you're an actor and you're also running an investment fund. You're kind of a busy guy and you're young too, right? Like you've Got to be. What. How old are you?

Like 28.

28. 28. 28, 28. Dude, you're killing it. So how do you manage your time between that. So are you CEO of Mosh? What's the. The setup? This is. How do you manage your time between that. So are you CEO of Mosh? What's the setup there?

Yeah, so I fully run Mosh right now. And, you know, it's a. It's a whirlwind. I mean, some days, you know, we have acting and I film work. I was in Atlanta this whole last year filming this new HBO miniseries called Staircase. And I remember there was a few weeks when we launched where I just really did not sleep because we were filming night shoots. And then during the day I was on calls with people in LA and in Colorado, our manufacturing was. And the R D side. And it was a really fun but terrible few weeks. And we had issues going on and problems with supply chain and an ingredient malfunction of the chemistry with the functional mushrooms with the fats. And so it was a nightmare. But it was also the best learning experience for me. And this is a vital step in my career because I've been investing in helping these different companies grow. We have over 20 different companies, but it's always been from, you know, 5,000ft up. And then for this company to really be in the weeds of it, of having to deal with customer service to the co. Manage to ingredient sourcing and all this stuff, it gives me a new perspective on my investing and on my compassion towards entrepreneurs and business in general. But, yeah, I'm running the show and, you know, we'll see where it goes. But I think from, you know, that 0 to 1 million takes a certain type of entrepreneur and attention. And then now going from 1 to 5 million is going to be another. A new step. And once we go above that and go into retail, as you know, it's a whole other monster. So we'll have to bring on help and sales and all that kind of force.

You have a business degree from usc and do they teach you how to be an entrepreneur?

No, no.

Wharton didn't teach me that either.

It's not in there.

Right.

It's probably one of the most frustrating things, I would say. I took the entrepreneur class at usc. My teacher was great. The school was fantastic. However, they. They don't teach you. There's a lot of things that they don't teach you. And I'm actually a real believer of the best way of learning is to just, you know, IMMERSE yourself into a business and actually go out there and try. And it's always kind of like action is greater than motion. So actually going out there and putting yourself in that situation is the best way to learn, rather than just learning from a teacher or always planning. So no, they don't teach it. And something that I hope that I can do when I'm older is probably go back to my high school and teach a class on entrepreneurship and put them through some sort of course. And, you know, something for kids that really want to learn about business and about how to start a business and all the different steps it takes. Because, you know, entrepreneurs are getting younger and younger. I mean, there's people that are dropping out of college to start companies. There's people that aren't even going to college to start companies. People are learning from people like you or on YouTube. How do I start a business? What are the first steps? And it's amazing that, you know, we pay 30, 40, 50 plus thousand dollars a year to a college and you want to focus in business and they don't really teach you those elements.

It's funny, you're talking about the cost of college. I started my first company, which turned out to be the first company to ever do E Commerce. It was out of my dorm room before E Commerce had a name, but it was because I couldn't pay my tuition. I'm not making enough scooping ice cream at Baskin Robbins. So I'll start a T shirt company and I'll find some way to sell. So sometimes because you went to school, you have an entrepreneur just to pay for the school, even though it didn't teach you to be an entrepreneur. So I love it that you're, you're calling that out.

And there's a, with my, with my dad, I mean, you know, back when he was going to, he couldn't afford college when he first came out to America and, and in order to do so, he started a bricklaying business. You know, he was a bodybuilder and it was something that, that continued to, to allow him to work his muscles and to work out and also learn business about, you know, getting the bricks, buying the bricks, then, then, you know, making the profit on it, doing the actual bricklaying in Venice. And meanwhile he was going at night to college to learn business. But that was, it was kind of the crossover of actually starting and learning about business while taking business classes and to pay for it. So that was kind of a mix.

I feel like the idea of apprenticeship is missing now, and there's a lot of people like me. I'm early 20s starting companies because I'm just going to go do it. When I look back on it, I'm kind of fortunate that my career took me to Silicon Valley where I did get. It wasn't technically, we didn't call it an apprenticeship, but I got to work for some real badasses who taught me the ropes so that I could scale. Would you, if you could provide advice to other people in their 20s about being an entrepreneur, is it better to work for an entrepreneur for a couple years to see how they do it, or is it better just to take the plunge the way you did?

Well, first off, I didn't just take the plunge. I mean, I kind of did exactly with what you said. My parents were always big believers of it's not necessarily what you do right away, it's who you learn from. Success leaves clues. There are people out there that are extremely successful and you can learn from them and take things that you admire or you love and learn from things that you don't. So I worked for a guy named John Davis, who was a. A film producer and crossed over into the business space. He was someone that, you know, made a lot of money in producing films and then started companies like Wetzel's Pretzels with Rick Wetzel. And that's actually how I got into Blaze Pizza. That was another company they're doing now. We have another company called Dave's Hot Chicken. So that relationship with him, I got to learn from him about film and about business in the crossovers. And he actually brought me in on the business deal. And then I went on to learn from another guy named Rick Caruso, who, who's currently running for Los Angeles mayor, actually. And so I really value, during my high school internship years and going into college about who I could learn from. And then, of course, I had my parents, which was a bonus to learn from as well. But of course, I think it's really important to take steps and to really learn from people you admire. I mean, if you could find someone that is your quote, unquote mentor or someone that advises you and helps you with things, I think that that's a huge bonus. And yeah, but I don't want to dissuade someone from making the leap. If you really see an opportunity or a problem out in the marketplace and you have something that's going to address that problem, then you have a viable potential business and you should go into it.

I have a question for you about ego when I was 25, I had lots of people reach out. I was an Entrepreneur magazine. Hey, Dave, you weren't really fat. I'm like, well, here's my picture from Entrepreneur magazine where I'm 280 pounds. I'm pretty sure that some people saw that. So, yeah, I was fat, but I had too big of an ego to ever take advice from the people who reached out. I was like, I'm going to do this myself. It would be a form of weakness, and then I'll owe you something. And frankly, that was all ego. Now here you are, you're an actor. You, you know, you are, you know, your shirt off, pictures all over the place. You know, you come from a family of accomplished people. Like, how are you not that full of yourself that you're willing to go out there and learn?

Well, I just always really do want to learn. I mean, there's people out there that are way smarter than me, way better at business than me, way more intellectual, that are way more in shape, way more, you know, everything. So, you know, why would I not want to have a trainer that, that pushes me to get better, teaches me something new? Why do I not, why would I not want to have a nutritionist that could tell me something new about my diet or my body or how my body reacts to certain foods to optimize? Why would I not want to learn from someone that is, went ahead and sold their food and beverage product to thousands of targets and Whole Foods and everything and could help me get, get myself in those doors, or I could learn something from them. You know, like I said in the beginning, success leaves clues. I would much rather go and learn things from people that have been there, that have accomplished and that could help me than not. I mean, it just doesn't make much sense to me. You look at Kobe Bryant, he continued to have a trainer and everything till probably the day he passed away. Tiger woods continues to change his, his grip and learn from, you know, his trainer. You know, baseball players continue to shift their, their hand rotation and stuff on the bat to continue to optimize from their, from their coaches. So, you know, even the best in the business look at ways to get better. And I mean, that's really what you do, right, is you're always telling people how to optimize their, their brain and their body and get better. And I think people listen to you because you're knowledgeable in that space, you're an expert, and you continue to read from other people because you want to continue to learn more about the Brain and body as well. So I guess it just stems from me wanting to get better and to get more intellectual and to continue my passions in my career.

Well, it takes a level of maturity that maybe I was slow to get that. So kudos for, I would say, staying humble. And I don't know if anyone who manages to do that knows exactly how or why, but I imagine it's something to do with parenting and maybe just that. That the nonprofit side of, you know, just giving back to people, which has been, you know, founders of the Peace Corps in your family and all. So, you know, just that. That notion of giving back. But something landed even when we met, I'm like, wow. Like, this is an interesting guy, because I wouldn't have been as grounded as you are during that phase of my entrepreneurial career. So kudos, man. And that's just genuine, like, wow.

Thank you. I appreciate that. And I appreciate the first time I randomly messaged you and you were willing to come meet me during. I think it was just hours before your speech or hours after, and you met me in the hotel and talked to me for an hour. So.

It was really cool. And, you know, I think you've already got the vibe that you're helping entrepreneurs as an investor and an advisor, and it feels good to help people. It always does. And it makes you a better person as well, which is something that. They didn't teach me that in business school either. In fact, it's sort of more extractive what they're teaching. But the reality is, if you can start a company that actually helps people, you're actually getting the energy from doing an act of service. And the reason that I wanted to have you on was to pick a brain about entrepreneurship. But also, you started Mosh with your mom, the Brain brand, which is protein bars. But this is the first time that I've seen something besides some of what I did when I was at Bulletproof. It was more performance. But you're straight up the Brain brand. So, like, oh, look, we're selling protein bars, not people who want to get thin. You're selling them to people who say, I want my brain to work. And that's like, hold that front of the camera. That's a pretty big innovation. What made you think people would do that? Because it's hard to sell brains. It really is.

It is. And we went back and forth, and our first name was something that actually incorporated the word, you know, mind and brain into it. And ultimately we went with Mosh, because that's my mom's Initials Maria Owing Shriver Health. I didn't know that. And yeah, and she thought it'd be more personal for her and go more to her story. And we really wanted to be a, a brand that was created out of a mission and out of the why and not so much the what and the mission of, of our brand and the story of her with her, you know, her father and everything like that was, was the, the stepping stone for this whole brand to really, to go off of. And we really wanted to see, you know, do care, do customers care about brain health through food and through beverage? You know, we don't want to be a protein bar company. We want to be a brain health company. And similar to what you did, you know, how do we do that through bars or how do we do that through nut mixes or hydration powders or morning routines or nighttime sleep aids or supplements? You know, everything kind of in that realm and how do we do something like that, but also educate consumers and raise money and donate that to the women's Alzheimer's movement. So it's been an amazing journey. I can't believe how many people are interested in brain health. And I think that grew from COVID as well. And after people are trying to optimize, whether you're my age or your 50s and 60s and you're worried about cognitive decline, you know, it's, it's gained a lot of popularity and gained a lot of interest from people that are really trying to stay focused, sleep better, work out better, you know, every different which way.

So you sat down and said I'm going to make a bar for the brain and one that's designed for, you know, the mass market that's accessible to everyone. What did you decide to put in it? Like kind of walk me through the thesis.

You know, truthfully, it's not mass market yet. That's something that we have to work on and that will come with scale. But right now, you know, our price of our, of a bar for us to buy, you know, specific ingredients like the grass fed whey protein aspect of the collagen or, or you know, the ashwagandha lion's man and incorporating the vitamins. You know very well it's not cheap, especially right now with our ingredient prices up double digits from last year when we first started. So it's my goal to bring down the price to make it, you know, accessible towards everybody. I don't think we'll ever get to a kind bar or Rx bar of being at 149 on the shelf. It's just not possible right now. But you know that that is our goal is to create other products that are more accessible. But you know, we're more premium bar. Right now we're at, you know, three, three dollars versus like I said, some of the other ones that are half that. But yeah, those are some of the ingredients. We went with really kind of a brain healthy diet that my mom was eating, which was low sugar, healthy fats, good source of protein. So the protein being from the almonds, the grass fed whey, the collagen, the chia seeds, the flax seeds, the healthy fats coming from again, the almonds, the omega 3s, the flax seeds, the chia seeds, the MCT, and then we have the different vitamins and functional mushrooms like the lion's mane, Ashwagandha, vitamin B12, D3, et cetera. So it's something that we're really proud of that we need to continue to innovate on and perfect. But it's been going really well if.

It gives you any hope. In the early days of bulletproof, when we got into Whole Foods, we were outselling our X bar with a bar that was $3.99. And that was per SKU facing and it's SKU guys like each, each flavor of bars. Our X bar had like 20 flavors. We had three. So it's not like we sold more bars than they do, but for every space we were selling more, even at a premium price. And part of the change that I'm working to make in the world and many others is that people, instead of saying, oh, the first place I can cut costs is on my food. So we're all basically eating kibble. Or I can say the last place that I want to cut is on my food because it lowers my healthcare costs and improves my quality of life so much. So I think there's a lot of people out there who are happy to pay $3 for a bar that has MCT oil, that has collagen, that has lion's mane in it, which is expensive in and of itself. So you're saying I've just got more benefits, so it was worth it. Right. And maybe if you only have a dollar, you buy a bar that's pretty much a sugar bomb with a bunch of grain in it. But if you can do $3, you always do because it's better than spending it on fast food. So I think, I think there's a space for it. I saw that there was space for it, but we did reach more people so that was over time. You do that.

Exactly. That's, that's our hopes as well.

And you're all E commerce right now.

Only E commerce. Only through our own website, mosh life.com. and that was a very, you know, we took that decision because we wanted to really have the ability to talk with our community. We had things that went wrong in the beginning. We had things that went right in the beginning. And for us to be able to one on one communicate with our customers and make things right, make things whole, figure out what are they loving about the bar, what are they not liking about the bar? Is the flavor great? Is it not? Is there aftertaste? Is there not? Do they care about grass fed whey? Do they not? You know, these little details, it's the best way to learn when you have it through your own website. And we can control pretty much everything when it, when it is through that. And eventually we'll grow, we'll get to Amazon, we'll get to Thrive, we'll get to retail, but one step at a time.

Well, I would say go talk to the guys at Erewhon. They're the super high end food stores, grocery stores in la. They were the first retailer that I had when I was running Bulletproof. And it was, it was really cool to work with those guys because they're a good place to launch a brand.

In retail, but they are, they're really great. And the other thing I just want to say in case there are entrepreneurs out there that are listening. You know, one of the biggest reasons we stuck to online and to our own website was the education factor. That we could really educate consumers about what these ingredients are and about our mission, about where are we giving back? Who, who are we giving back to? Why are we giving back? What's, what's the story from my side and my mother's side that made us want to start and embark on this journey. So all of that you can do through online and when you're just there on a shelf in retail, it doesn't have the same impact.

You're right. My experience from talking with a bunch of consumer packaged goods entrepreneurs is that you can scale E Commerce up to about 40 million in revenues. And after that you just hit this wall where the cost of getting a new customer in the door is really hard. And that's when you cut over to retail. I probably did a little too soon because what I realized is that the team that can sell a retail product to manufacturers is just different than an E commerce team. So you want to be half and half. But then you end up having to hire a whole new team who knows how to go to grocery stores. It's a whole different ballgame. And consumers don't have any idea that any of this happens in companies. But it's a really big thing if you're going to go into a grocery store because you're saying, well, how much are going to pay for a bar? I don't know. I buy it online, I buy it here. But for an entrepreneur, it's millions of dollars of investment in order to earn the right to offer something that's worth it for consumers and stores. So I think you're on the right path with E Commerce, but I want to pick your brain because you started out as a franchisor and a franchisee and you moved into consumer packaged goods. Okay, I am kind of the opposite, where clearly I grew up bulletproof very substantially. And it was E Commerce and then grocery. But now in my portfolio I've got Danger Coffee, which is my new coffee company with added minerals. And that's an E commerce only CPG kind of thing. But I know that game. But I also have a franchise which I haven't done before. So I'm doing in the opposite order as you. So upgrade Labs. We've sold a good number of franchises and we're in the middle of that. By the way, own and upgrade labs.com, they're clear plug. But this is my first time as a franchisor so I've hired a team from orangetheory. Like people really know what they're doing. But what advice would you have now that you've tasted CPG but you really know franchise? What are the differences between being a franchise owner operator and being a CPG entrepreneur?

I would say the biggest difference is the word profitability.

What are the differences between being a franchise owner operator and being a CPG entrepreneur?

I would say the biggest difference is the word profitability. That's the biggest difference when you're a consumer product goods company and you're in growth mode. Profitability. What does that even mean? No one's really that profitable in the beginning, especially when you're in growth, whether you're a direct consumer, whether you're going to retail, you bring in money to go and try to grow and get that that top line of revenue as high as possible. Show that there's a bigger fish out there that can maybe buy you increase the, you know, the, not only the revenue but the margins and thus make it profitable. When you're Talking about franchises, you need to, you need to be able to tell a franchisor, hey, you're going to make your money back and start profiting within 24 to 36 months. You're at risk for the beginning and then you're going to really start profiting. And so profit becomes a real thing. Right? You need to try to get that double digit. You have to pay attention way more to labor percentages, to ingredient cost of goods, to your rent. All of those different kind of factors become way more, you know, pertinent basically to the overall business success. The reason why I really didn't like being a franchise was it wasn't my day to day thing. It wasn't like I was a franchise expert. I was there every single day running the show, knowing exactly what it is for people that this is their bread and butter and they do it as their daily job and they own 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 plus franchises of something and they are kind of a well oiled machine then it really makes sense. But for me, you know, I was just, my head was spinning when one week the cheese cost was this and then the next week it was that. And you know, when the rent was going up in California or in Los Angeles, the cost of labor was going up and we weren't allowed to increase the prices because there was this, this corporate rule on the prices when you know, we couldn't increase it in LA and not increase it in Washington or Texas. But you know, in Texas or Washington the labor laws were way different than in la. And you know, so I don't know, maybe I have a bad opinion about it because of, you know, being in la. It's extremely tough with, with wages, cost of good and rent prices. But yeah, I would say the biggest difference is just the idea of EBITDA and profit.

Is LA a good place to do business now?

I can't imagine I won't do any, I, I mean right now it depends actually for you and your coffee shops, I would chuck it up as a marketing campaign. Right? You probably don't really care that it's, that it's a big profit margin and you're just saying, hey, LA is very dense. There's a, you know, the population is massive. Let's get this brand identity out there. Let's really build it. It's okay if the store is neutral and doesn't make any money. We'll use this to build it and then we'll go and open in other places throughout America. Sure, that works. But to really go and Open a business here. I don't see how it's going to be really worth the risk right now. I mean, like I said, the labor is going up, the rents are continuing to go up, the taxes are going up, people don't want the prices to go up. The ingredient costs are going up. Your margins are going to be slim to none. That's why you've seen a plethora of people moving to, you know, other places, Texas, Florida, places throughout middle America, Ohio, you know, in hopes that they can, they can have open businesses there. And it's, and it's, you know, it's more accessible.

It is more accessible. I've had the Upgrade Cafe open now for seven years in Santa Monica and it sometimes makes a little bit of money, but it's a labor of love and a community building point. It's not what's paying the bills. If it pays its bills, I'm exceptionally happy. And we've got a couple Upgrade Labs locations there. But like I said, labor costs regulation, it's, it's the sort of thing that, if that was what I only did as an entrepreneur was those three things in the LA market, I would be sort of thinking, you know, how am I going to afford my airfare to get down there? Like, it would be really, really rough. So I know that with Upgrade Labs we're growing and it's working really well. But LA is the toughest place to do business right now, so I'm a.

Little worried about that.

They're going to have to fix it.

Louisiana is tough. It's really tough. And that's not to say you can't do it. I mean, there are tons of successful, you know, businesses and brands that do work in L. A. I just don't know if, you know, if you're going to really start a new company, is that the best place to start? I would say it could be if you're really just focused on brand building and identity and you want to, you know, show proof of concept to go and then grow it elsewhere.

I like your perspective on that. And as an E commerce brand with mosh with your bars, it doesn't really matter. So you can be in la, but your, your team can be all over the place. Are you doing a virtual team or do you have like a headquarters? What are you doing for that?

Yeah, we work out of our office here in LA in Brentwood, out of my mom's office as well. But look, I've been part of a bunch of different direct to consumer companies and everybody had that Exact thought that you just said once Covid hit, they said, why are we spending all this money on offices in LA when we're doing everything through virtual zooms and you know, performance market? Everything is direct to consumer. I know pretty much 95% of the companies that are mostly direct consumer focused moved, moved out of the country, moved to Florida, moved to Texas, moved to places that they didn't need to spend a lot on large offices, didn't need to spend as much on taxes and, and, and the cost of living was, was better in other places. So when you're direct to consumer, you could be spread out all over.

I see a lot of that happening now and it's harder with teams and it's awesome that you have some good resources there. What do you say to entrepreneurs who say actually hang on, looks like something just happened.

I was just trying to plug my iPad in, no problem.

Good thing is we have edit. It doesn't matter. What do you say to people who say, look, it's easy for you to be an entrepreneur. You come from a prominent family, you're also an actor, it gives you an unfair advantage and all that. Do you think you work as hard as an entrepreneur who doesn't come from a well known family?

Well, that's kind of two part. Question number one was the idea that I come from a family that I'm very fortunate to, that they're financially stable and things like that. So does that help me as an entrepreneur? Of course, you know, there's not going to be, I'm not going to say, you know, having parents that, you know, didn't give me my first loan to get into Blaze Pizza wasn't helpful. Of course it was. That's what started my career, you know, so. But there are tons of entrepreneurs out there that don't have anything that go on to be extremely successful like my dad. I mean, you know, he came to America with no money to his name and someone had to pay for his ticket out here. And he became extremely successful because he didn't have a safety net. He knew that he had to do everything he could to go out there and, and make it. When you talk about, you know, how hard do I work, I. Without trying to, to, you know, brag or to boost my, you know, whatever, I work, I work hard. You work your asshole.

I've seen it. And that's what I want everyone listening to hear.

Yeah, I do it because I like what I do, I'm passionate about it and I have a big vision of where I want to Go with my career and with our brands, and I love it. But it's funny because people always ask that kind of stuff. And, you know, with my, with my working out, you know, I'm always the first person at the gym at 5am 5:30, and I always tell people, you know, you want to come work out with me? Come in then. There's a reason why I'm the only person there in the mornings because no one wants to get up as early as I do. And, you know, I like to do. I have a very, you know, set routine. And there's, there's, you know, I don't go out, I don't drink, I don't do drugs. I don't really party and stuff. And I have things that I really love, and I have things that I don't love. And I found ways to really optimize my days and get the most out of them. And just discipline and routine was something that was embedded so much into us kids when we were growing up. Our parents were so strict with that, and they were very adamant about if you're not going to do the work, no one is with everything. At our house, if we didn't turn off the lights, my dad would unscrew the light bulbs and we wouldn't have electricity for our, for our rooms. If we didn't make our bed, he would throw the bed over the balcony or take away our covers. If we didn't do, you know, clean up the shoes or the laundry, he would, he would throw it in the fireplace. He was very much of, like, teaching us rules that we had to do and, you know, we weren't allowed to take hot showers over a certain amount of time or he would turn off the heat in the house or, you know, just so many different little things. That was all about teaching us kids that, you know, we have to go and do, do the work, from the smallest little parts to the, to the, to the kind of, you know, macro side. But it was always about, you know, do the work. And he didn't care what the work was. You know, if you wanted to be a priest, great. If you want it to be a teacher, great. If you want it to be a plumber, you want to be an actor, you want to be a businessman, whatever you want to do, I'll support you. But you have to be, you know, working your ass off in that field and try to be the best that you can.

Well, it seems to have worked because all my interactions with you, I can see that you're working really hard to be a successful entrepreneur. Entrepreneur. Because the people are saying, the reason you're successful is family. Sure, it helps on the start, but you cannot, in my experience, be a successful entrepreneur and be flaky and not disciplined and all that. So the fact that you've been successful here, I think it's because you're, like you said, you're waking up early and you're doing the hard work. And I see a lot of that towards me. They're saying, well, Dave, you're some rich white dude. I'm like, hey, I'm not as rich as you probably think. I used to put auto parts in boxes for five years every summer to help pay for my school.

Right.

But there's. There's something in the US Particularly that's like, you know, how dare you? But what I'm seeing is the people who want to make a big difference still work their asses off. And it doesn't matter where you come from. Either you do it and you do it right, you do it consistently, and then you have a chance of succeeding, or you don't do that stuff and you have almost no chance at all. So I just. I want everyone listening to just see that you're waking up every morning and you're doing it because it's inspirational, but it's not a guaranteed ticket to success to have some financial backing or anything like that. You still have to be an entrepreneur, and I think you've proven yourself, even at a relatively young age on that front, and you're continuing to do it with the new brand. When have you failed as an entrepreneur? Has that happened to you yet?

Well, look, I have a very, you know, opinionated idea of the word fail. But, you know, we've. We've had, you know, mistakes that have happened in our entrepreneur journey and with Mosh specifically and with other brands. You know, it's only a failure if you do that same thing again or if you don't learn from it and, you know, fix it and grow from there. So, you know, people always say failures are what makes you better, but it's really kind of, you know, if you learn from that quote, unquote, failure, then it's not a failure, it's a mistake. And you've learned from it and you've grown. I've had companies that have, you know, like I said, that I've invested in that. It went from $1 million to hundreds of millions of dollars. I've had companies that have gone and just became absolutely nothing. We've had stuff with our company Here with Mosh that, that we were out of inventory for six to eight weeks. We had things that, that happened with our ingredients malfunctioning inside the bar, having, like I said, a chemistry reaction that made the product taste off in the, in the first batch. We had things that, that we had so many things that went wrong. And that was kind of the fun part was learning about that and finding ways to fix it. To anybody out there that's wanting to be an entrepreneur or that's embarking on that journey, you're gonna have speed bumps. You know, you can do as much homework as you can and want and, and try to perfect everything before you launch. But you know, things come out of left field every single day. Things that you can't control, things that are, you know, just out in the ethos, from the shipping to the, to the actual manufacturing side to the ingredient source. There's just non stop something that's going wrong and it's fun to learn from it and find ways to get better and make the customers happy. But yeah, we've had a bunch of problems throughout my entrepreneurial career.

And that's something I think people who haven't yet run a company don't really see. There's been times where I've almost run out of money at Bulletproof and we got around that like you. There was one time our vanilla had gone off. We're using real vanilla beans and it changed the flavor. We threw away, I think $100,000 worth of bars that were, they just tasted bad, even though they were safe to eat. We can't give these to people, but that can be a death blow to a tiny company. But fortunately we were at enough of a scale where I could make those mistakes. So it's pretty touch and go when it's a young company and I think you've, you've learned that already. And it's good to share that with others that. No, it's not like everything just works. Everything you touch doesn't turn to gold. You work your ass off. And sometimes it does, but along the way it might be lead for a while.

Yeah, I remember when that first happened. I was on set and we were shooting night shoots and I just had finished. It was my birthday. We finished work at like 6am or something like that. I went back home and I got one of the products that was. Had a malfunction and I couldn't go to sleep. I mean, my heart was racing. My anxiety levels were going through just being insane. And luckily we were able to fix things Fast and make the bar really delicious and stuff. And anybody that did get something that they weren't happy with, I personally reached out. We did handwritten letters, we did things to win them back, to make them happy, to give them free new product. You know, everything that we could that was in our control, we took advantage of. But yeah, it's, it's just, you know, it's not all, you know, rosy and shiny. Once your product is on the shelf, there's a lot of things that are happening in the background and things that are going great and things that aren't and you know, that's the fun. That's what they say about entrepreneurialism, right? You leave a 9 to 5 to work from 5 to 9. It just doesn't stop.

How do you balance out the health side of things? So many entrepreneurs especially I look back at my entrepreneur stuff. In the 20s I would stay up all night long growing companies and doing what I did. But it was maybe taking a toll on my health. How do you manage not burning out, given the acting side and the entrepreneur side? You talk about night shoots, which are the worst. You have bright studio lights right when you want dark. What's your secret for managing your health through all that?

Look, I prioritize my health more than anything and everything you know, about what the stuff is that I consume and eat to the amount of sleep I'm getting to the working out to every aspect. Yes. I wake up at 5:30, I'm in the gym and stuff. I'm asleep by, I'm in bed at 9:30. So I'm still getting the rest that I need and the quality hours and I do things to enhance that. I'm wearing my aura ring, my whoop band, my Apple watch, my all three. I got all these different things to always trying to find ways to optimize. But you need the sleep. There's a lot of impacts that sleep have on your body and on your brain, on your mental health, on your, on your life. So when I say that I'm up really early, it's not to, you know, brag that, oh, I got this little sleep. No, I'm still getting, you know, six to eight hours every night. But there is a burnout, right? There's a big, there's a big idea of burnout amongst entrepreneurs and amongst employees. Right. You don't, you don't want to burn out your employees or anybody part of your company because you want them to be motivated and happy and interested in, in the success and the longevity of their own life, but of the business life. And. Yeah, so I definitely value those things for our employees, for myself. And there's certain days that it might get squeezed, of course, like everybody, but for the most part, I try to prioritize that.

So I don't know because I don't follow all the celebrity rags. What's your relationship status right now?

Oh, I have a, I have an amazing girlfriend. I've been with her for six, seven years now. Okay. You guys are pretty serious. Yeah, we're, we're really serious. And she's great. She's my, my R D test buddy because she's from Alabama, Birmingham. And I always like to see what she's willing to eat or what she's not willing to eat because she's got a whole different diet and palette than, than I do. And, you know, she just moved to LA about, you know, six, seven years ago. She had never heard of 99 of these ingredients or products or anything that you're finding at an Erewhon or whole foods here, etc. So it's always interesting to get her perspective and stuff from a mass market point of view. So it's, she doesn't like tasting a lot of the products that I deal with, but it's always, it's always fun to work with her on it.

So the reason I was asking is that you mentioned that you're putting your health first. And so many people, including me, I would put my, my career ahead of my health and I'd put my relationships ahead of my health. How do you manage a relationship where you're saying, look like my health is, is core to this? So how do you balance relationships versus health, not even counting the career? Is the air you're breathing making you sick? Just because you don't see mold doesn't mean it isn't there. My friend Jason Earle has been on a mission for over two decades to help people understand the hidden role of indoor air in their health. He's one of the world's leading experts on mold and indoor air quality. And he created the Got Mold Test kit to make professional grade air testing simple and accessible. It uses cutting edge air sampling tech that top inspectors trust and it's engineered for you at a fraction of the cost. It takes just minutes to get samples using the patented biovac air sampling pump. Then you send them prepaid to one of the most prestigious microbiology labs in the world. No guesswork, no paperwork and no hidden fees. You get fast results, intuitive reports and great support. And since you keep the pump, you can retest anytime for less. It even comes with a lifetime warranty. Mold may be invisible, but its impact isn't. This kit helps you understand your environment so you can take action for your health. Go to gotmold.com and use code DAVE10 to save 10% and see what's in your air. Because the best biohackers don't guess. They test. You're listening to the human upgrade with Dave Asprey. How do you manage a relationship? We're saying, look like my health is, is core to this. So how do you balance relationships versus health? Not even counting the career?

Well, luckily she does as well. You know, we have things that are very, you know, we're opposite in a lot of ways and then we're similar in a lot of ways as well. You know, she's always about going to sleep early, waking up early as well. She loves working out. She eats way more sugar than I do. You know, we go get coffee in the morning and she gets her queen aman or almond croissants or whatever the heck. But overall we get to do activities together that prioritize our health while still being able to be with each other and hang with each other and stuff like that. So, you know, it's not like I'm having to choose health over her or her over health. There's ways to always bring things together and I think that's what brands are doing today. Right? We're seeing a lot of rise of here's activities that you can still do that are socializing that are also benefiting your health. I mean, that's the whole craze of group workout classes. You know, I invested in one called Rumble and that was it. Like, hey, let's make it so you can still socialize and have fun, but you're also working out. And there's other aspects of even on the whoop, you know, you get to do things that compete with friends and family members, that you're kind of bringing both of them together. Or there's the craze right now of non alcoholic beverages and beers and wines and stuff like that. So you can still go out and socialize and prioritize socializing and friendships without having to sacrifice having to drink and putting toxins into your body and stuff like that. Look at the coffee movement, right? That became a whole social thing as well and a health thing as well. So there's becoming a mix and, and people are blending the idea of you don't have to choose health over family or friends or career. There's ways to intertwine them and to kind of benefit all aspects.

I love that perspective. Like, look, in your relationship, do stuff together that makes you both healthier so you don't have to prioritize. And I wish more entrepreneurs and people in relationships would get the message you just shared there. Because if you sacrifice your health, you're going to be a crappy entrepreneur and your relationship probably won't work well either. But so many entrepreneurs, I see them at conferences. Some of my friends, you know, they're carrying 20, 30, 40 extra pounds and they're tired all the time. And it's because they're working really hard. And then, you know, they have relationship issues. It's because they're working really hard, but they didn't put their priorities in order. And you definitely got that.

Businesses are doing that more and more too. You know, I have businesses that I'm part of that are now, you know, doing weekly yoga classes at the office or workout group workout classes in the morning to keep people, you know, healthy and their mindset clearer and paying for those different aspects or giving them certain coupons towards healthier meals and restaurants or changing the snacks that are in the quote unquote cafeteria and, you know, different things to help, you know, bring health to the forefront while they're still, you know, at work and everything like that.

What do you look for when you're hiring people as an entrepreneur? Are the people who prioritize health, do they have to believe in that? Is it skills? Is it something else?

I mean, really hard work is really at the top of it. Are they really wanting to learn and to grow? I worry less about, you know, what's their gpa, what school do they go to, anything like that. I just had this rock star girl that worked for me for the last few months and she had never done anything in CPG Food and Bev, she was a lawyer and she had written me this letter saying that she really wanted to learn about CPG and Food and Bev and would do anything to come in to work with us and just to learn. And so she came and learned and worked with us and was fantastic. And after six months she said, going to go look for a new job. Would you help write a letter of recommendation? And she got a fantastic job at a, at a Food and Bev tech company here in la. And it was just someone like that that just really was putting in the work and wanted to do everything they can to learn. Had no background in food and beverage, had no background in entrepreneurialism and Entrepreneurship, but just was willing to do the work. And that's really what I look for. Are you really hungry and wanting to get better and are you believer in the mission At Mosh specifically, every single person that works with us has a direct relationship towards Alzheimer's. Everyone either has a family member, a father, a mother, or a sibling that has Alzheimer's or something in that world. So that has become really important because they're very bought into the mission. They're really understanding of what are we trying to do, why are we trying to do this, and they're part of the team. So that was a really kind of cool and fun aspect of Mosh and about all of our employees.

It feels like you have to hire true believers, mission driven and hard workers for Maybe the first 5 million in revenue for a company. And then you realize if there are people who are true believers, but they haven't been in an industry for a while to learn all of the pitfalls, you can make a mistake at a million dollar level that might cost $20,000, but if you're doing 10 million revenue and you make that same mistake, whoa. So over time you start evolving the team where you keep the mission, you keep the true believers, but you start bringing in people who, oh, I have 10 years selling protein bars. So then they can bring lessons learned. And that's something that no one ever spelled out to me, but it just kind of happened organically. And maybe I was too late to do that as I was going bulletproof, because it's really helpful to have someone who's just done it for so long and they can just pick up their phone and call the chairman of whatever manufacturer and solve the problem. So you end up getting the relationship somewhere. But if you start out with someone like that, they don't know how to do the scrappy stuff. So you're your hiring filter.

Exactly. That's why I said it's very different to have a, you know, people work for you in a, in a brand and stuff that's going from 0 to 1 million, then from 1 to 5 million, and then 5, 10 to 50. It takes different types of people. And you know, if I were to go call, you know, a top veteran in the, in the bar space and ask them to come and run this company from zero to a million dollars, they probably wouldn't be as motivated or interested. You know, also they wouldn't probably be getting the salary or anything. You know, those are the risks of going in on the, on the startup. So yeah, you have to be very Wary of the types of people you're, you're hiring at the type of level you are with the business.

Okay, that's a very nuanced and aware answer. I love it. What about when you're looking to invest in a company? What is, what's your filter there look like?

So I always tell this to people because, you know, some of it's skill, some of it's luck. But so many people have asked me, what is your secret? You're 28, you have a few companies that have exited for a few hundred million. You've made a lot of money. Tell us what you do to bet on these companies. I don't have any magic formula. I don't even know what I was doing when I invested in Blaze or Liquid IV and stuff like these. Early on, I was investing in the person, you know, my business background didn't give me a very in depth, intricate way of modeling out the business and projecting where it was going to sell and all these different things. I really bet on the mission, the why and the entrepreneur behind it. And you know, were they someone that was extremely hungry and wanted to bring this mission out to the world? And I thought that there was an opportunity in the marketplace for it and it checked all those boxes. I was it. So with Liquid iv, they were, they were a mission driven company. Their, their mission was to go in and, and hydrate the world. And so many people were dying from diarrhea and dehydration and, and they wanted to go and do a one for one model. And hey, we're going to be what Gatorade is, but with half the sugar. And I was like, boom, I'm all in. Super Coffee was how do we take the Starbucks Frappuccino and take away all the sugar and spread positivity? Boom, I'm in. Blaze Pizza was how do we create the healthier version of Domino's and Papa John's but through the transparency of the Subway Chipotle model? Great. I'm in. So all of them have missions and whys behind the company. And the entrepreneur behind it is willing to do anything to spread that mission. It's less focused on the actual product. And that's what I do. That's what I really bet on. And I always try to find those healthier alternatives. And are people craving that other version of what's out there? And if so, and I think so, then I bet on it.

I very much love that. I worked for a venture capital firm on Senthil Road in Silicon Valley for a while. I Got to sit in on partner meetings. And I saw many dozens of pitches from startups, and I always joke that you could have reincarnated Steve Jobs and, you know, a clone of Elon Musk in pitching a startup. And as soon as they walk out of the room, the partners will look at each other and go, I'm not sure about the team.

Right.

Because it's all about the people running the company, and it's about the idea. Second, and the other thing they're always going to say is, oh, the market size is too small. Come in. It's a $3 trillion market. Nah, it's not big enough. So there's like, standard things that they worry about. But when you really peel it back, what you said, first, it's about the people you're backing a person with dollars.

Right.

And then they're going to change their idea if it's wrong, and they're going to navigate all the obstacles. Those same ones you talked about before. Oh, our manufacturing didn't work right. There's a defect in a bar or whatever, and they're going to fix it because they care, because it's the right person. But if you back the wrong person with the right idea and it never goes anywhere. So you're saying you want things that are healthier than what exists. Maybe not perfect, but a step in the right direction, and you're looking for the right people and the right mission, and when you see those, you get excited and you come in on it.

Yeah, all right, Exactly.

I think you've got the right investment template. Did you just stumble into that or did someone teach you that?

No, I think it was kind of like ignorance is bliss. I didn't know what I was doing doing in the beginning. You know, I. This first company that I invested in, I had just sold my clothing company for, you know, small amount of money in high school. And that's when I really wanted to go into. Get into food and beverage. And. And like I said before, this, this Blaze Blaze pizza idea came and. And you know, the guy had a great track record. He had done Wetzel's Pretzels. But it was just the idea of what they wanted to do that was so interesting to me and why they wanted to do it. So I don't think I knew anything about financial modeling and margins and what a business really was. I didn't really understand all of that at that point in my career. I was 16 years old, so it was just like, oh, this guy's really smart and his idea is really cool. And he's mission driven. I want it. And it continued to work out. And of course there'll be times that it doesn't work out. And I always tell that to entrepreneurs and people as well, that everyone's expecting these insane numbers to happen in their business to blow up overnight. And it just doesn't happen. You know, it, you know, Blaze Pizza took us eight plus years to see a dollar. You know, Liquid IV was over a decade, I believe. You know, these things, people see it once it's successful, but they don't see all the years it takes to, to get there. You know, how long was it for Bulletproof? How long was it from the time you guys became really a massive, well known company from when you actually started.

Was pretty fast because it was very disruptive. In the language I was using around upgrade your health and hack yourself, we didn't talk like that. It was allowing people to have more power and control over themselves. And now that's just in our language everywhere, which I'm just so happy about that. That was really what I wanted, was for us to feel like, oh, we have control because if you feel helpless, you just eat junk food. But if there's something I can do. So it wasn't even about health. So because of the almost inflammatory language and biohacking like hacking, like hackers break into stuff like how dare you. And I did get some flack for that, but it came on pretty quickly. So within, I think within three years of starting without external funding and about $50,000 of startup capital, we had 27 million in revenue.

Wow. So that's fast.

That's super fast. And then we raised from venture capital firms. And anytime you're taking on outside professional VCs, it's always kind of a deal with the devil as an entrepreneur because it means you're going to have to sell the company and it's going to influence how you grow it and what happens. And there's other kinds of investors who come in who aren't professional VCs who will have less, they'll push less to make the company do things. And maybe as a founder you don't want to do, but they also write bigger checks. So I sat down and I said, well, if I really want to reach a lot of people, I'm going to need this capital. And the funny part was I called friends who were VCs and I said, you're never going to invest in this company. It's in too many segments. I know how you think, but you should give me 50 grand for coffee inventory.

Literally.

That was my pitch. And they came back and said, how about $8 million? I'm like, holy crap, I'm a tech guy. I have no doing this. But I had to do some soul searching. Like, is it going to let me reach a really big audience? Not to sell them stuff, but to teach them stuff? Just like you're doing with, with Mosh, where it's about education. And that's always been the motivating factor for me. So we did grow really quickly. And it was right product, right time, right message, and huge amounts of hard work that, you know, no one who wasn't a part of it will probably ever understand. Just like for you with all of your businesses, you work your butt off, but people just see, you know, whatever they see, you know, on TV or in a. In an article, even in this. In this interview, you know, you can say, I work hard. But do they believe you? I don't know. I believe I've seen it. Right.

But it's.

It's still pretty tough.

Yeah, 100%.

Well, I appreciate you coming on. And even more, I love it that you're building a brand around brains. You're actually making a big bet that people now care as much about their brains as they do about their abs. And the world wasn't like that 10 years ago. Even just talking about smart drugs and nootropics wasn't a thing. Lion's Mane Mushroom and a mainstream, mainstream product. No way. Lion's Mane was nowhere to be found, and no one even knew what it was or why you might use it. And now it's something you can use as an ingredient. I think that's actually really cool. So you're going to make a big change, especially. And I've got to say this. So, of course, pretty much everyone's a fan of your dad. Right. One of the things that made me super excited about Upgrade Labs is we put our building or our restaurant, and Labs is right underneath his office. Right. And I was like, holy shit. We actually have space near the Arnold because he's such a cool guy. I haven't met him, but just you. Obviously, it's part of your family, so you have your own filters for him. But I was like, this is cool, because he's like the pinnacle of physical fitness. And how do we move it forward into brains? Because it's really this. You have a lot of muscles, it's going to help your brain, but you have a lot of brain. You can grow the muscles. And I love seeing that you're kind of taking the message around health and moving it from where it's inclusive of muscle, but it's also the brain, and this is a sea change in consciousness for people. So putting that behind Mosh, it's a big bet, but I think it's a good bet. And I'm so behind you getting that message out there. So that's something I wanted to just thank you for because it's time.

Thank you, thank you. I appreciate it. It's really nice to hear that from you. And yeah, I mean, it's a big vision, a big mission and you know, we're going to learn a lot along the way and make my mom happy and proud and really continue to do what she's doing each and every day, which is educating consumers about brain health and that they're in the driver's seat. There are things that people can do today that will help their brain health tomorrow, and I'm just really fortunate and glad to be along the ride for it.

Well, thanks again for being on the Human Upgrade. You're definitely a walking vision of an upgraded human and and just getting going, which is incredible. So I look forward to next time we get to chat and have a great day.

Thank you man. Appreciate it.

You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey.

The Human Upgrade, formerly Bulletproof Radio, was created and is hosted by Dave Asprey. The information contained in this podcast is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended for the purpose purposes of diagnosing, treating, curing, or preventing any disease. Before using any products referenced on the podcast, consult with your healthcare provider carefully read all labels and heed all directions and cautions that accompany the products. Information found or received through the podcast should not be used in place of a consultation or advice from a healthcare provider. If you suspect you have a medical problem or should you have any healthcare questions, please promptly call or see your healthcare provider. This podcast, including Dave Asprey and the producers, disclaim responsibility for for any possible adverse effects from the use of information contained herein. Opinions of guests are their own and this podcast does not endorse or accept responsibility for statements made by guests. This podcast does not make any representations or warranties about guest qualifications or credibility. This podcast may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products or services. Individuals on this podcast may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to herein. This podcast is owned by by Bulletproof Media.