How to DETOX Like a Pro! Phosphatidylcholine, Tudca, and Butyrate for Maximum Cellular Cleansing : 1216

These things are really the initial drivers of disease.

Even if you live in a cave in the jungle, you are breathing and eating microplastics.

The toxic world that we're living in is the biggest threat. But if you have these healthy fats, you're able to flush out these toxins. You know, now you're hearing the 0.5% of the average person's brain is made of microplastics.

This is one of those things where you do it regularly over time and your toxic burden goes down.

When you actually get to stabilize that, everything starts working better.

You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. This is a episode recorded live in person in my studios here in Austin, Texas, where you can buy barbecue, but it's never grass fed for some reason. Someone should fix that. Now, why would I care if it's grass fed? Well, because you get all kinds of toxins from conventional animals that you probably don't want in your body, but it's better than getting all kinds of toxins from plants that you also don't want in your body. So why am I going off about barbecue? Well, because there's nothing you can do in today's world to fully avoid all of the 10,000 plus toxins that we've put into the environment without any regulatory oversight. Oops. So I still see people who say, well, I should get all of my nutrients from Mother Nature. And I just kind of roll my eyes. Doesn't that mean you should also be getting all of your toxins from MOT nature? And even if you live in a cave in the jungle, you are breathing and eating microplastics. You're also getting endocrine disruptors, so you can't get away from it. What you can do is minimize exposure and drink out of glass, not plastic, and get rid of your bad utensils and do all this stuff you've been reading about since the start of the biohacking movement, but you're still going to have it in your body. You'll just have less of it. So what do we do about that? I have an interesting guest to talk about that. If you know the. The history of the things I've been through. Toxic mold, we've had lots of experts on. You can detox that. But first you should get out of your home and out of your coffee and your food and all that. And toxic metals. I've had high levels of mercury and lead in my 20s, actually very high levels, as well as cadmium at one point. And you got to get rid of that stuff. And even I would look at omega 6 fats in excess are a toxin, but they're laced with glyphosate. I'm not trying to make you afraid. In fact, being afraid makes you not live to at least 180. I'm hoping you share that goal with me. What I want you to do is just say, oh, I'm doing what I can to minimize it. I'm not breaking my life to minimize it. I'm not living in fear. But I might want to do something about it. And that's what this episode is about. Our guest is a returning guest, Jessica Berman, who's one of the owners of Body Bio. Now, you might not have heard of Body Bio, but this is a company that's been around, what, since the 50s?

1998.

Really?

Yeah.

But your grandparents started it.

They did. And his. His first kind of experimentation was in the 80s.

In the 80s. Okay, cool. And Body Bio is a company that's always had a special place for me because you guys published a little spiral bound book in 2008 called the detox diet.

2004.

2004. Okay. Yeah. My memory isn't that good, but it's pretty good in the early 2000s. And I read the book. I might have a second reprint of it, actually.

It's so good.

And this was one of the first books that really explained cell membranes to me. And it went into my whole thinking about why we should be eating butter and the whole idea of bulletproof coffee and what is now danger coffee, because I'm no longer working with bulletproof. So what you'll. What you'll find is there's almost unlimited things you can do to increase performance here. But the biggest one you can do is get rid of the things that are slowing you down. And unfortunately, microplastics and synthetic chemicals are some of those. So Body Bio has been about detox since the very beginning. And if you listen to our last episode, you learn a lot about a molecule called butyrate. That's really important. But there's something else that I've used for a long time that I want you to know about, because I think there's. We'll say there's emerging evidence that it can help you remove microplastics and other things. So don't be afraid of them. Don't bathe in them. Understand that they're out there just like normal bacteria in your gut makes some toxins, too. So you don't have to be afraid, but you should be proactive. Jessica, welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me.

All right. I kind of consider myself a mitochondrial fetishist.

Okay.

Because in about 1998, I learned about these before mitochondria were cool. And I thought, well, I have a serious problem. It turns out I had what you could call mitochondrial network shutdown as a result of toxic mold in the cell danger response. There's a cell danger response, and there's also something that happens with cortisol and metabolite or progesterone and some weird genetic stuff, but call it chronic fatigue syndrome.

Yeah.

So cell danger response is part of that. And so I learned a lot about mitochondria. But once you get into mitochondria, like, oh, it's the membrane where all the magic happens.

Yeah.

So inside your cells, you have these little ancient bacteria that have their own membranes, and then you have the cell membrane itself, and you can change what's in those with your nutrition. Read any of my books. I talk about that a lot. But a company that's really been working on the cutting edge ways of getting stuff into the cell membrane that you want is body bio. And so I'm going to go deep with Jessica here. All right, what did I miss in my description of cell membranes?

I think it's a really accurate description. I think what's critically important is people don't understand that the cell membrane is responsible for the actions. I mean, we've all heard of Bruce Lipton's work in the biology of belief, but it's, you know, you have this kind of blueprint that you're given with your DNA, but the DNA actually doesn't perform any action. And the most interesting thing to me, I spent years with my grandparents trying to understand their research, and it was so technical that doctors and people with doctorates wouldn't even be able to understand. And really what it distills down to is the toxic world that we're living in is the biggest threat to the lipids, those healthy fats and oils that make up our cell membranes, our organelle membranes. That is what it's disturbing. That is what it's changing. And that's how these toxins are actually going in, affecting our nuclear and mitochondrial DNA and changing our epigenetics. And so I think that it took me many years. I mean, I've been working with Bodybuyer for eight years, but it took me hours, I mean, weeks of just sitting with my grandfather to try to distill that information. And really, that's. That's what's happening. We're seeing just massive alterations to the cell membrane, and that is changing the trajectory of our health.

It's. It's pretty profound. I. I started this out before I got into it. Oh, cell membranes. It's like a condom around your cell. Like it's a bag that holds things together, but it's not. It's a whole bunch of little tiny droplets of fat, almost like a soap bubble or something, where, where it's. It's delicate and you can change the ingredients in it and that changes what it does.

Exactly.

Right. So when you're visualizing a picture of yourself, you say, oh, I'm this body. Like, not really. So what's your body? You zoom in. It's a whole bunch of different types of cells, all of which have fats surrounding them.

Yeah.

How long does it take to replace fats in cell membranes?

It's quicker than you think, because we're seeing that people are affected. I mean, you see people who start taking body biopc who may have a very high toxic burden. Maybe they're very chr. Ill. They see adjustments and changes right away. It just depends on. On the actual product. Right. Like, our product is so different than others. And so I think that people can see it very quickly. I think that over time, like, if you're really looking to. To do kind of lipid replacement therapy and membrane stabilization, you're looking at about six to nine months.

I would believe that if you're using very specific delivery systems, the overall data says, if you're not using supplements, that the half life of fat in cell membranes throughout the body is about two years. How. And I. I published that actually in the Bulletproof diet. And this is a very rare study. It's hard to find, and it's an older study, but it was well conducted. And I don't remember the reference, but it was like 50s or 60s or something where they just did some careful feeding experiments. But if you look at what happens inside the fat in the brain and the fat, other parts of the body, especially white fat, the composition changes very rapidly based on what you put in your body. So it might take a while to change a cell membrane in bone versus changing it somewhere else. So I would believe, especially cognitively, that's.

Why people feel the effects.

Now, the. The primary product we're talking about today is called phosphatidylcholine. And longtime listeners or followers. You guys may remember my recipe for get some ice cream. Have you heard of this?

I haven't.

Okay. It's called get some ice Cream. And it came about from my work, from my first book on fertility. It was called the Better Baby Book. And I was like, how do I get healthy fats in more effectively? And it used a bunch of sunflower lecithin, which doesn't work nearly as well as the. The. Is it liposomal or.

Liposomal?

Yeah, yours is liposomal. Okay. Just making sure that it wasn't my cellular. I was in my brain, they're going, which form do you use? So this is not the same as what we're talking about, but it's call it 5% as effective. So you would take a bunch of this stuff that did have bad oils in it, to be honest. But oops, you know, you do what you can, and a whole bunch of butter and some MCT oil, and you blend it all up with egg yolks, and you add some sweetener that you like. And then when you eat it, your body's like, I have every ingredient necessary to have a really healthy baby, so we should go work on that. And thousands of people have responded. Dave, I tried the recipe. Oh, my God, it's real. I mean, I'm not making this up. It's the subtle signals of biology just going, thank God I needed good fats. And it was definitely inspired by my understanding of phosphatylcholine. And listeners have also heard me talk about acetylcholine as a neurotransmitter in the brain. A lot of the nootropics I work with affect that. What's the difference between acetylcholine as a neurotransmitter and just eating some kind of choline or lecithin and then a liposomal.

Form like you make, It's a big difference. So acetylcholine is a. Well, phosphatidylcholine is a precursor to acetylcholine. So when you have ample phosphatidylcholine in the body, which we're making all the time, it just really depends on what's breaking it down and how much of it we're getting from our foods. But it is something that you can. It's a biological substrate in the body. So the difference between choline and phosphatidylcholine is that choline will kind of. It will supply choline. The interesting thing about phosphatidylcholine, phospholipids in general is that they will supply choline and acetylcholine when there's ample levels in the body. And so the Other ones can't go backwards to produce one, but the one can go forwards to produce the others. And there's a big difference between lecithin, sunflower lecithin, because we get asked this all the time. Our PC is derived from sunflower lecithin. The major difference is that lecithin will break down into choline and triglycerides, whereas a liposomal phospholipid will make it through the digestive tract into the bloodstream for cellular delivery.

And then when it's in the bloodstream, it just absorbs through cell membranes. And then the cells have more, basically healthier cell membranes.

There's more resilience. Right. If you think about it like a, almost like a leaky cell membrane, if you have the same kind of concept as a leaky gut, but it's happening to your cell membrane, all the bad stuff's getting in and it's getting into our mitochondria, and that's where it's really affecting our health, driving mitochondrial dysfunction.

And when mitochondria are dysfunctional, when their lipids are disrupted, well, they actually leak. But they can leak ATP, which is a problem. They can also just leak electrons, which is another name for mitochondrial dysfunction and inflammation. Yeah, right. So fix the membrane, fix the inflammation, and then have more energy.

Yeah, right. And this is where I have a little bit of a controversial take, because obviously we're all avoiding seed oils, particularly people who are listening to this podcast are very aware of the implications of, of rancid omega 6. But the inner membrane of the mitochondria, cardiolipin, it's the number one fatty acid in cardiolipin is linoleic acid. And so for the people that are avoiding linoleic like the plague, not even consuming things like eggs, you actually need healthy whole food forms of linoleic acid specifically for the mitochondria, so that the mitochondria don't stiffen and start pulling in saturated instead of polyunsaturated fats to the cardiolipin.

Now it is essential. And guys, this is absolutely true. And I've done a lot of research to figure out, well, what is the amount? That's essential. Yeah, and grass fed beef is about the fat. And grass fed beef is about 1.6% omega 6, which seems to be enough. Do you really need more than that?

I would say, based on the, I would say tens of thousands of doctors that we work with, many of them are actually using more particularly to get their patients out of the cell danger response.

And when they're using more. They're not using canola oil and salad dressing and fried crap at the restaurant. No, they're using refrigerated cold pressed extracts, carefully treated.

I think that's the key here. It's organic, it's carefully treated, or you're getting it from seeds and nuts and making seed cream, soaking them in electrolytes, blending them to get a whole food form. So the product that we're talking about, that's super carefully treated versions of linoleic and alpha linolenic. I like to call it an essential fatty acid blend is called balance oil. But we also have small amounts of it in the PC to give it a little bit more viscosity because as you've seen, it can be quite thick.

I have experimented with taking three tablespoons a day of carefully treated six and three blends. I didn't see any benefit.

I see it in skin. I always see it in skin. I feel like my skin looks more like supple and radiant. You see it in hair, you see it in nails. That's where I predominantly feel like. You see it.

Got it.

It's also used to stabilize people who are very ill who may react to PC, because when you start flooding the body with endogenous phospholipids, you can have reactions.

Sure.

And so it's used to kind of stabilize those mast cells first.

And if you have zero omega sixes, and like I said, you can't do this even with eating animal products, it won't be zero. It's, it's slow. I think for healthy metabolisms, that works pretty well. And I don't have any issue. Like I said, I went for about six months. This is maybe five years ago. I said, all right, like, let's try this. And I, I don't think I felt the benefit, but I'm not in cell danger response.

Yeah.

And there's something called arachidonic acid. Can you talk to me about that and where it comes from?

You know, I think arachidonic acid is a driver of inflammation, but we also need a healthy amount of inflammation. We need that to drive it in order for all the other biochemical processes to happen in the body to bring it back down. And so when you have people specifically looking at the fatty acid pathway, when you have people that are taking epa, dha, lower level essential fatty acids, thinking that it's going to offset the bad sixes that they're eating, that's driving more arachidonic acid, there's a huge problem There. And there's a problem in like the world that we live in that that's being promoted as something that's going to drive down inflammation. It doesn't work that way.

It does not work that way. And if you have zero arachidonic acid, you're not going to like your life. And you actually metabolize it from linoleic and linoleic acid. So if your, your brain is spinning right now listening to this, going, what the heck are all these whatever acids? Bottom line is we want your cells to work really well. And that means we want to build them out of the right building blocks. And we know if we give you this, you'll make this. And we give you this, you'll make this. I am not a fan of going out there eating a bunch of nuts because you're going to get some, some fatty acids that you're going to get so much oxalate, especially if you're sensitive to that, like a lot of people are who don't even know it, that it's, it might come as a double edge there. So same thing even with raspberries. Raspberries are almost as high as spinach and higher than kale in oxalates. So there was a time when I ate two big things of raspberries every day because I thought they were healthy. This is right as I was stopping being a raw vegan and I had to go to the urologist because I was peeing like 25 times a day and I'm like, what is going on here? And they put a camera in a place where cameras should not go and to look at my bladder system. And they're like, we don't know. Well, I figured out eventually it's because I was getting razor sharp crystals in my urethra from too many oxalates. So this can happen from nuts and things like that. So that's one toxin we want to not overdo. So how do you get these? I would say what I do now is I take an extract of raspberries that has the good stuff and not the bad stuff. I take an extract of turmeric that has the good stuff and not the bad stuff. It's also a very high oxalate food. So when it comes to getting fats in the body, one way you could eat a whole bunch of these nuts or you could take purified, refrigerated, carefully treated oils in small amounts. Yeah. And get all the benefits with none of the downside, which seems to work. But when you're getting a Phospholipid, it's different, just like krill oil. If you guys have read my, my books on that, krill oil works better than fish oil because it's phosphorylated, It's a phospholipid. And what Body bio makes is a phosphorylated or a special kind of choline that goes into the body and changes cell membranes to make them so that they're not too stiff, but not too wobbly either. I started out the show talking about plastics, microplastics, toxins, endocrine disruptors. What does phosphatidylcholine have to do with.

Getting rid of microplastics in a really interesting way? And this is something that I learned from sitting with a lot of the doctors that are seeing people. These are people who are seeing tens of thousands of patients that are testing their red blood cell circulating amount of these toxins. They're looking at their DNA adducts, they're seeing how these toxins are affecting these people's health. And it really struck me that they're noticing that phospholipids just from oral phospholipid use, so this is not from IV will actually go in and liquefy biotoxins and help to excrete them from the body. And so by flooding the body with additional fats that are so critical to our health, that are being targeted by these toxins, we're actually able to help our body excrete them naturally. So this is not to say that like phosphatidylcholine detoxes microplastics, but if you have these healthy fats, you're able to flush out these toxins naturally and support your body's natural detoxification pathways.

This is so cool and it's, it's super nerdy. One of the reasons that I developed this whole bulletproof coffee idea and now just put butter and MCT in any coffee that says mold free right on the label. I recommend Danger coffee. It is because I knew I had a very high burden of fat soluble toxins. And it turns out toxic mold makes synthetic estrogen called xenoestrogen. And the one that I was exposed to, among others, is 10,000 times more estrogenic than female estrogen. And they, it's so powerful that they concentrate it and they put it in a cow's ear and then it, because of body heat, just melts and it enters the cell membranes of the cow and then the cow gets fat on 30% less calories. Wow. You can imagine how cost effective that is for a rancher. Right?

Fascinating.

You want to eat that cow? Yeah, me either.

Yeah.

But that's an example of how powerful just a tiny amount of xenoestrogen is.

Yeah.

So I'm like, how do I get this crap out of my body? And one of the things you want to do is increase fat intake. And increase fat intake that will go into the cells and push out old fats and then capture it in the bile so that it goes out things like activated charcoal and all. And is this what's going on?

It is. Exactly. You know, there's a difference between taking exogenous phospholipids and phosphatylcholine and saturated fats. They're not going to do the same thing.

No, they don't do the same thing.

So it's really important to. To kind of look at how the mechanisms of action work in removing these things from the body and what you're putting in the body. But it's. It's really neat to see. I mean, you see before and afters of people's tests, and you're looking at these things that we're saying are forever here, or, you know, now you're hearing the 0.5% of the average person's brain is made of microplastics, and there's something you can do. And that's. I think that's really exciting.

You know, that's really intriguing, because if. If that was true for me, I doubt it is, because I. I take protective measures, and I take.

I think you're an exception.

I take my phosphatidylcholine. Yeah. But I'm like, could I at least choose what kind of plastic? Because maybe we could, like, dope it with some kind of things that would give me some brain powers.

I'm more of a. Just keep it away from me.

Generally, I want, like, some. Some nanotech that I control that gives me super brain powers so that I can be like, those are not the droids you're looking for. Do you think we could do that?

I don't think I can, but maybe you can.

Do you think phospho choline would help me?

I think it would. I think it helps everybody.

So you really don't want superpowers?

I don't want superpowers now.

Why not?

No, I just want to live long, healthy, and have my family live long and healthy and my friends.

Isn't that a superpower?

I don't think it should be a superpower.

No, but it is.

I think it should be the norm.

It should be the norm, but it's not.

It's not. But for me, it's the norm.

Okay, there you go.

Yeah. And I think for people who, like, find body Bio and stumble upon it, that's what they're seeking. Right. Like, people are seeking solutions that are going to help them live better, live longer, live stronger. Obviously, you know that. And so it's. How do we do that in today's environment? Because this is an environment we've never been.

It's unprecedented.

Dealing with before.

Got it. So do you think that, like, the evil overlords that are intentionally spraying crap on our soil and all that, do you think that they take a lot of phosphatidylcholine?

The ones at the top probably do, because they're probably paying cash to go see a great concierge medicine doctor who's probably saying, hey, this is going to be helpful for your health. Isn't that sad?

It's. It's true and it's how it works. And I will happily say I do intravenous false cytocholine on occasion with a doctor here in town in Austin with Ann Chippy.

I love Ann.

Oh. You know, and, yeah, she's. She's a close friend. She's been on the show. A top mole doctor, too.

Yeah.

So she'll do that. But that's expensive. It takes a lot of time. And then I do the Body Bio, which you just pour a spoon of it and you just swallow it. Yeah. Could you make it taste like cotton candy?

I mean, I think that's part of the thing that makes Body Bio really special. I will not, and I'll never do that. And, you know, people say it's a great product for the autism community. And, you know, can you get it into a gummy? You can't do it. You have to mix it with too many things. And anything you mix with this product is going directly to your cells. So you don't want it to taste like cotton candy.

Got it. There are still untold people where, like, this is healthy. And they're like, oh, but it doesn't taste good. In what world is flavor more important than how you feel? I would be a gravel tarian if it works. Like, I don't care. Except raw lamb's liver. That's. Oh, that's hard. I tried that years ago and I was just desperate and I had read about it and I threw it in those upside down blender things and you dribble It.

Oh.

And I didn't want to ruin my good blender with it. And I'm blending it and I'm thinking I've got it all blended up and I got to drink it and like those liver stringy things, like, try to drink it and that gets caught. Oh, my gosh. That's the one thing that I just couldn't chug.

Yeah. No, this is not like.

Yeah, just. Just want to be really clear.

And also for those people, just take the capsules.

No. So I'm willing to go to the ends of the earth. That was an end I could not stomach.

Yeah.

But it's actually, I feel like when I'm taking the body bio falsetto choline, it, it feels kind of like a mix between like honey and peanut butter and how it feels, not how it tastes. It tastes kind of neutrally sunflower ish.

Right?

Sunflower butter, maybe.

Yeah, it does. It does kind of. It's almost like molasses.

Yeah, that's a good example.

Yeah. The other thing is like, you can mix it into stuff. Right. So I just will kind of pulse it into a smoothie, like just to kind of pack in with raw egg yolks and raw dairy yogurt, things like that.

And you can eat it just by itself or you just don't want to cook it or something because it's.

You don't want to heat it because it's. It's delicate and those. Those bioactive lip delicate and we don't want to oxidize them.

And I don't think you want to put that in coffee because that's probably hot enough. It also isn't going to taste great in the coffee. No.

You could like put it in water and take a shot.

That's what I usually do. I just like put it in my tongue and then I swallow it and then I drink some coffee because I feel like warm stuff helps it just.

Melt in the stomach to go down and assimilate. Why not?

Yeah. So this is one of those things where you do it regularly over time and your toxic burden goes down.

That's what we're saying.

Right. Okay. That's super cool. Have you seen anything in particular around BPA or these other plastic things?

PBBs? All of it.

Wow.

So I'm literally looking at these people's because recently we've. I sat down with one of our physicians and we were looking at redacted data from some of her clients. And you're seeing that these levels of environmental toxins are decreasing and significantly. And so Putting together a case series to be able to publish that, to start talking about the fact that lipids and phospholipids have the potential to remove these things from the body is really powerful.

Okay, I think that's a pretty good argument. What kind of doses does it take to do that?

Higher doses. So the dose on the bottle is half a teaspoon or two capsules.

That's not very much. I take like, a tablespoon when I take.

I would say for your demographic, they're probably open to taking higher doses of things. For some, it puts them off, and then, you know, take it. Any amount of it is going to be beneficial. But if you really want to actively work on getting these things down, you're looking at two tablespoons a day.

Two tablespoons. I could go up to two. I usually like to do one and.

A short period of time so you can stabilize the membrane and start to remove these things and provide this resilience within about six to nine months.

I usually do it when I get back from a flight, which is like, every week. It seems like I've been on 70% travel for the past three months, which is a crazy amount. And I actually feel really good because I take care of myself as best I can. And if I'm checking a bag, I'll bring it. But I don't usually take liquids on airplanes because it's a pain.

Yeah.

And I do have the capsules as well. I.

It's easier to travel with those.

They're better for travel. So what that means is the more time you spend in an office, the more you drink out of plastic bottles, because you don't have a choice about it, like in airports. And the more time you spend on airplanes in hotel rooms with God knows what in them, the more fragrances you're exposed to in the back of the uber with, like, 14 of those stupid little P mind SOL things. You might want to upregulate your removal of these types of plastics and endocrine disruptors. And so far, this looks like the best way I've found to do it.

I think so.

Okay. This is breaking news, though. So you're working on all the case reports?

Yeah.

Okay. I. I just want to say this. The very best breakthroughs in health and wellness always, and I mean always, come from clinical observations. So a doctor, somewhere goes. You know, I tried this because it seemed like it would make sense, and I saw a bunch of results. And then they put together a formula or they put together a new lens of looking at health. And this happened with mycotoxins years ago. Dr. Afrin did it with mast cell activation syndrome. No relation to the nasal spray. And then more recently you have, is it Meg Lahirdy, I think who did RCCX theory. So there's these doctors who are going, I just see this in patients. I see it enough. Helen Earl in for visual processing. And these are people who are all clinical practitioners who listen to patients and try stuff. And then as soon as they talk about it, then all the other doctors who are, you know, trained by a big pharma, like, how dare you?

Yeah, I want to see the trial.

So you're at that stage where you've been working with this or your company has been since 1998. So there's a lot of time looking at cell membranes and things like this and you're getting a better and better understanding of this. What are the steps that'll be necessary for you to be able to say, you know, with 100% certainty this is doing this all the way in exactly this population. Because there's a gap between we see it in clinical evidence, of course, and then, you know, the, the big pharma people saying, well we believe you're double blind, clinical trial, blah, blah, blah. Yeah.

And I, it's so Body Bar is a family business. We're not some big pharma backed, you know, VC driven supplement brand. And it's going to take some funding and some. It takes, I mean, six months to a year to even write the IRB proposal for this. And so we are starting first with. So our first step is really turning our customers into citizen scientists. And so we're going to be conducting surveys to talk about brain fog and fatigue and how the products have helped with that or not helped. We'll see. And then the next step is to put together a feasibility trial. So we're going to be looking at 20 women perimenopausal, so before menopause, suffering from brain fog, most likely brain fog specific because that really tends to lead to mitochondrial dysfunction diagnosis. We're going to be observing them over a year. We're going to be doing a delayed ARM of three months. We are going to be doing lifestyle changes and dietary changes and we are going to evaluate it. And so we'll evaluate it with that delay as well. But as you can imagine, it's this stuff costs, it's personnel, it's having the correct lead researchers, it's biostatisticians, it's my time versus all of the other things that we're doing growing body bio and so it just requires putting together the right team. We're a brand with no outside funding. And so really prioritizing. Okay, we're going to be putting some money towards this first for the feasibility trial. Most randomized control trials, these like big, the ones that everybody wants to see in the meta analysis. I mean, you and I both know, look at the funding, like, who is funding these things? Who is funding the universities that are conducting these things? So right now we're in talks with a lot of different universities about partnering with them. One of the first things they say to you is how much money can you donate? And it's all money driven. And so prioritizing that as a business for us is huge. But randomized controlled trials, you're talking many millions of dollars. And so I'd like to get there one day. I think we're looking at a few years out from being able to confirm and say with 100% this does this, and have the buy in from everyone. But I think that I have seen so much anecdotal data from clinicians that I am 100% convinced that it's going to work. And I think a lot of doctors are too.

When you're dealing with a cynical person, they'll say, well, the only kind of evidence I'll accept is double blind clinical trials. It turns out, in philosophy training or even in computer science and, you know, hardcore logic. There's seven kinds of evidence that are all valid. Yeah, right. And clinical evidence is, I think, the most intriguing because what drives me crazy is you get someone who cooked his study with a couple million bucks from some company, you know, with where the, the CEO has a little finger going.

Exactly.

And if you didn't see the video, I'm doing the thing from Austin Powers, you know, a little evil, whatever.

What was it? One million, $1 billion?

$1 billion.

Yeah.

So what's going on with all this clinical evidence is that we can use it, and we do use it all the time. And if you're a biohacker, look, here's the deal. You only want to do what works. Clinical trials don't mean something works. And the biggest mistakes I've ever made are when a physician said this works and it's based on a flawed theory, even if they have a study for it. So then you try it and it doesn't work. So then what you do, you try it even more, and then you try it even more because you know it works. Except I don't believe any clinical trial applies to me because I'm not normal.

That's very true. It's also looking at the actual population that you're studying, hand picking those people to, to really assess. Like, you have to rule out so many different things when you're looking at clinical trials. And we are, we are in a few. We're actually doing one with Dr. Terry Wahls.

Oh, I love Terry.

Specifically for MS, which is really exciting, a five year trial at the University of Iowa. But it's just, they've overcomplicated it and they've made it to, you know, get to a place where it's just very difficult. It's very easy now to sway the data as well, which I think is completely unethical. There's companies that reach out to me all the time saying for $50,000 we can create a trial for you where you can say 98% of participants experience better brain health. And it's like, well, you don't even know what product I sell. It's pretty incredible that you'd come to me with that, that information. And so I think that, you know, biohackers in general tend to be explorers, they tend to dig deeper, they tend to be people who are not going to accept things at face value. And this is also one of those, I think that randomized control trials are not the gold standard and we should question those things.

And you're probably not like the people in it. So even if there is a randomized control trial, what you do is you say, well, is this thing likely to work for me, for my goals? And your goals are probably cognitive function, living a lot longer, removing toxic burden from the body and all those sorts of things. And so then you try it for a while and you see what changed.

Yeah.

And if things got better, like, oh, isn't that interesting? But then a little voice in your head says, well, what if it's also that I drink more water? Well, then you got results, deal with it.

Yeah.

Right. And then you can stop taking it. And then if things start going the wrong way, then, you know, that's what it was. Or maybe it was the water, but it was probably the phosphatidylcholine because we understand how cell membranes work. So this is how I've transformed my health. I'm around 5% body fat right now. I'm never hungry. I'm actually starting to figure out, how do I get fatter.

I agree. Like, as we age, I want more fat.

Yeah. Like, as someone who my entire life struggled with, with gaining Weight. Because I would just gain weight at the top of a hat. I'm so healthy, my cells work so well that my body's like, you don't need fat. I'm like, what do I do here?

I know, right?

And it's. It's kind of a nice problem to have, given my history, but, you know, I wouldn't mind a little bit of fat on my face.

I agree.

If I take phosphatidylcholine, is going to help me have some fat on my face.

I think it does. Really? Your skin's your biggest organ.

It's true. Subcutaneous.

Think about.

Interesting.

Taking more phosphatidylcholine is going to supply more phospholipids to build out and plump out those cell membranes.

Okay, what's the max dose I can take per day?

Actually, I know people on specific autism protocols. Upwards of six tablespoons a day.

Oh, my God.

And I have seen children. I mean, one in my neighborhood recently, who I just said to the mother, if you cannot get your son to take it, Autism diagnosis. He was looking me in the eye and smiling. I was like, this kid has brain inflammation. This is not autism. And I just said to her, just put some PC on his wrists if he's not gonna take it. If he can't get it in his chocolate milk or anything else, just absorb it through the skin. And within one week, she sent me a video of him looking her directly in the eyes and saying, mama. And he had never done that before. And that is the type of stuff that, Like, I was in tears watching that. And we talk to doctors all the time that are saying things like this.

I had massive neuroinflammation as a kid. I had Asperger's syndrome and ADHD and odd. You know that one?

I'm trying to think of what it could be.

Not ocd, it's positional defiant disorder. Yeah, it's like that Rage against the Machine song, you know?

Interesting.

I won't do it. You told me that was, like, running in my head all the time.

It's brain inflammation.

It's all brain inflammation. So you stop the brain inflammation. And phospholipids are a major part of that. And then you have to retrain the brain and the nervous system and all that, which I.

Stabilizing the membrane. And I. I think that we underestimate something so esoteric in the body. And when you actually get to stabilize that, everything starts working better. And I. I think that people miss that a lot because I think we probably manufacture enough in our bodies, but I, I think the reality is we don't in today's world.

Well, we don't manufacture enough in our bodies because our bodies need more than we ever did in all of history.

Exactly. Because these toxins are literally ripping it apart.

And when you look at what's called a lipophoric toxin, this means a fat loving toxin, all the endocrine disruptors are fat loving toxins.

Yeah.

And if you've ever had like a bar of soap and it smells like essential oil, that has real essential oil in it. They didn't make it out of essential oil. They put three drops in there and it spreads throughout all of the fat that's in that soap. Right. Or in a perfume place. They put, you know, one drop of fragrance in oil and it spreads everywhere. So in your body, you get these things from your food, from rubbing against plastics, from all the crappy receipts you're touching. Like all that stuff it absorbs through the skin, it comes in through you, breathing it through, eating it through your clothes, and now it soaks in. And since your body is made out of thin layers of fat everywhere in every cell, well, it seems like you'd have to get rid of that. And one way you would do that, I like to imagine like a beaker, it's just full of water and you put in three drops of blue food coloring. Or if you're a biohacker, methylene blue will work too.

Is my tongue still blue? Yes.

Did you kiss a Smurf?

Yeah, exactly. That's how I woke up this morning.

So you now have water that's light blue. And how are you going to get that out of there?

Yep.

Well, one thing is you could put some special material that preferentially absorbs just the blue. Good luck with that. I don't know what that would be.

That would be a chemical.

It would be a chemical. But activated charcoal in the gut helps with preferentially absorbing something. So it's one strategy. But what you're really going to do is you're going to pour more water in there. And then as you pour more fresh water, you dilute the toxin until the water's clear. You have to do the same thing for the membranes in your cells. So using a phospholipid that goes in directly is going to basically be like adding way more water to the incoming blue beaker that you have there, essentially.

Yeah. And it's just helping to kind of grab onto those things and excrete them through you know all the different processes.

In the body, but I imagine we're increasing the rate that fats enter the cells which pushes out fats that are contaminated. So you could just do a high fat diet and that's going to help because the body will do that. But like I said, it's a two year half life, which means after four years or 75% cleaner, as long as you didn't get any new toxins or you use the body bio liposomal phosphatidylcholine. And you do this as a detoxing method for cell membranes, including the mitochondrial membrane.

Exactly.

Which is kind of cool, at least in my weird corner of the biohacking world.

I think it's exciting. I think we've got a good team of researchers and people who are really studying mitochondrial dysfunction and how it's driving disease. I think that people don't understand that these things are really the drivers, the initial drivers, these toxins of disease. And so how do we start to stop that and really look at the chronic disease epidemic that we have and help people live healthier?

Well, I think there's a lot of ways to do it. Yeah. And one of the low hanging fruit is actually liver fat. Right. So if you have read my longevity book Superhuman, I talk about the dangers of visceral fat, all the fat packed around your organs, which is what you don't want. And at upgrade labs we're actually starting to measure people's fat age.

Oh, nice.

What is your visceral fat compared to people your age? So according to that measure, I'm about 18. I have low levels of visceral fat for an 18 year old. So my liver doesn't have almost any fat in it, which is what you want. And one of the things that controls that is detox and also what you put into it. What does phosphatidylcholine have to do with fatty liver?

Oh, it's, I mean it's, it's tremendous. Phosphatidylcholine increases bile production by 250%. And so in combination with another product that. Have you ever tried our Tadka? Have you ever tried using Tad?

I've used Tadka for years, yeah.

And so in combination those two things, lowering those kind of liver enzymes, the elevated liver enzymes, and then actually giving the liver the correct fats helps to just flush out all the burden that's been on that liver for so long. And it's fascinating the combination of those two products together.

I want to talk about Tudco for just A second. I've talked about it, I think, in a blog post a while ago, and you might have heard that there's a market for bare gallbladders.

Ancient Chinese.

Well, there's still a market for it. And, oh, yeah, they're. They're poaching and things like that. So I don't recommend using that. But it turns out tadka is in ancient bear gallbladders. So you can now get tudka. That's some tud cd.

It's synthetically made. Yes.

Yeah. It's not squeezed out of bears.

No.

You don't, like, have polar bears and gently wring them out?

We don't. No, not New Jersey.

Yeah. That's probably for the best.

Yeah.

So you make it synthetically, but it really works on liver detox. So I take it especially, actually every day when I'm traveling, I take it. And when I'm at home, probably half the time.

Yeah.

Which is. It's super powerful. So you want a liver that can handle all this crap that's coming into it, because that's what gets rid of a lot of these estrogenic chemicals as well. I know a few people who've actually theorized that fatty liver is a choline deficiency.

Interesting.

Just when just fixing choline levels radically reduces this. So things like fructose, which are a major cause of fatty liver, even from fruit. Sorry, guys, but if you have too much of that stuff, you get fatty liver. But you could possibly reverse it that way.

Oh, yeah.

Which is really interesting just by taking choline. Right. And choline isn't a great thing to take by itself because it can. Well, it doesn't absorb that.

Well, no, it doesn't.

And it also can ferment in the gut in a direction you don't want.

It to go and turn into tmao. Yeah, yeah. And that was a big. That was really flawed in that study that said PC directly is correlated to increased tmao. It really was not done well. And the study was done on triple lecithin. A lot of choline is actually triple lecithin pactin oil, and it's a byproduct of soy sunflower production. That is really what we don't want to be ingesting.

All right, let's talk about TMAO just for a minute. Because we kind of open that door about every four years like clockwork. The people who are trying to sell you peasant whole grains as if they are superfoods. This is because that's where they make the most money. They'll come out with a hit piece on red meat, which. It takes a lot of work to make red meat, but it is a superfood. I say this as a former devout raw vegan. So why do they do this? Well, because they're bad people. Okay, maybe they're not bad people. They might just be sad people. Their mommies didn't love them. Whatever the deal is, I don't care. They need to stop it. But how do they go after meat? They go after tmao.

Yeah.

And what this means is that if you have the wrong bacteria in your gut, which a lot of us don't have, then it'll possibly turn red meat into tmao, which is pro cancer. But here's a little issue. This is what makes me laugh. They say red meat's the problem, but guess what makes TMAO more than red meat? Fish.

Wow.

But magically, they don't tell you not to eat fish in these studies. They just pick on red meat. Oh, yeah. It's ridiculous. And eggs do it too.

Flawed studies.

Yeah.

Thought study design.

And then they look at industrial byproduct lesser than, which is the stuff you don't exact heat, and they say, well, that could also do it too. Bottom line is, I don't worry about tmao. To be perfectly honest, it's a. It's probably a rounding error in something. And if you're worried about it, you could just have a healthy microbiome. You can even measure it. I don't have tmao. Formers VIOME will run that test for you. It's part of their standard panel. But taking the phospholipid form that absorbs directly and doesn't get fermented isn't going to do that.

It's not at all. And. And you know, some of the research. Somebody once sent me an article in a study and they said, well, look, here's proof. And it's like, okay, you know, it's. That's. That's not apples and apples here, you're not comparing the same thing. And so often when you even think about it, like, I can't tell you how many research labs reach out to us to say, hey, could you supply your product for free for research? People don't know where to get it. So then they're just going online and buying product. Random product that hasn't been tested. It's. Yeah, it's. It's very questionable.

There's something else that's really of concern when it comes to things like soy lecithin okay, well, it's soy derived. It's gonna be a problem. Well, it's not just soy. Yours is.

It is.

It's not from soy that's been sprayed with glyphosate though.

But what we do is, and this is what took four years to make this, and the person that made it with my grandfather, still making it today, there's about five people that know how to make it. And so they figured out how to isolate the individual phospholipids. Because we're talking a lot about phosphatidylcholine. The complex is actually full spectrum. So it has the ancillary phospholipids, ethanolamine, inositol, serine in there.

Those are all good, by the way.

They're all great. But what's really interesting is soy is the closest mimic to the human cell membrane. If you use sunflower, it has 60% less phosphatylcholine. Well, 50% of the outer membrane is phosphatylcholine. You need that to be the predominary phospholipid.

I thought you said yours was sunflower, not soy.

No, ours is from soy. So you need it to be from soy. When we've done testing on sunflower, it's way too small. And the phosphatidylserine is much higher. Now when you're taking that and it's not the correct balance, it's going to throw things off in the cell membrane. So what he did was figured out a way to isolate these and remove the DNA proteins. So there's no protein in the soy or in the end product?

I should say not in what you make, but in typical soy lecithin.

If you just go online and buy PC on Amazon, that is soy lecithin packed in vegetable oils that are rancid.

Yep.

And that is, that won't even supply phospholipids. It'll supply choline and triglycerides.

Yep. It just doesn't do the same thing. And the biggest challenge here is that glyphosate loves fat. Yes.

So it'll hang out there.

It'll hang out there. So I wouldn't touch soy lecithin unless it was really carefully processed.

And we test every batch.

You test every batch of glyphosate and you're buying non gmo.

Exactly. This is the, this is the problem that people don't understand. And it's, it's fascinating because if you look at American made, lecithin is typically the worst exposure Compared to other countries marinated in glyphosate.

Yeah, right. It's kind of sad. We have one of the most fertile countries on the planet and like, let's kill all the soil with glyphosate. Yeah, it's crazy stuff. So when you're using this phosphatidylcholine that's from non GMO soy and fully extracted and then put in a liposome and it just does something that's different than buying soy lecithin or sunflower or less than a plot.

That's what makes it so special.

Okay, but you might be biased.

I mean, I'm a little biased, but I would also say like as a look, I'm somebody who's very. I'm a total empath. I'm somebody who really cares a lot. And like something that just drives me insane is seeing the health of our children in this world today and seeing, you know, how many people are born and how many kids are non verbal and seeing it's happened in my own family, it's happened in my neighbor's families, it's everywhere. And so for me it's how do we change this? And we know how critical mitochondrial health is. Right. We now know that 100% of the mother's mitochondrial health is passed on to the children. Why do you think so often the first child is the one that has autism or some other type of disorder or some kind of health state. Children's diseases when they're occurring before the age of 12. Who's the researcher at CHOP? Doug Wallace, who's done just incredible research on this showing that is mitochondrial dysfunction, it's environmental and it's from also the parents. And so we need to clean up our act and we need a solution. There's not many solutions. So if we can find a solution to cleaning up our ACT before conception, so before the prenatal comes in, which I don't agree with either, don't take prenatals. I guess if you want, you can, but I don't. Then it's going to lead to healthier outcomes in a healthier population.

It's almost like you could have written the outline for my very first book.

Yeah, I have to go back and read it.

Well, the mother of my children, my former wife, was infertile when we met and we wanted kids. So I did all the research. In fact, that was about the time that I was coming across that old book that you guys had put out and I was like, okay, we've got to clean everything up. And so we restored her fertility. Like her medical school colleagues said, you're not gonna be able to have babies. You're infertile. And then had one kid at 39 and one at 42. To this day, she helps a few clients every year. Very high touch stuff. Be able to have babies.

Amazing.

But to be able to have healthy babies, ideally, you have six months before you decide to get pregnant, and at least three. And you go through detox protocols. And guess what we recommend in the book? Phosphatidylcholine. There you go. Because you just need this to clean out mom cells. You have a healthy womb.

Yeah, Right.

So I would say if you're prioritizing a budget. Right. You should be giving phosphatidylcholine to mom before pregnancy first.

Yep.

And then during pregnancy. Yes.

Yeah.

Okay. And then to kids.

Yeah.

And if you do that, it. This is when everything's developing and we're seeing where you start. The more of a head start you.

Have, because they are exposed to things that we weren't, and it's not the age of, oh, well, my grandfather smoked a pack of cigarettes a day, and he's fine. Like, you can't do these things anymore. And we're born with a higher toxic burden than ever before.

And when I wrote that book a long time ago that it was very heavy on phosphatidylcholine, actually, I didn't want my kids to go through what I went through. Like, having autism sucks. Like, all of the Asperger's stuff and all the brain fog and gut issues and all that. And I know very well that if we hadn't have done that, the odds of my kids having that, with my genetics and background and just my whole family, they were destined for that. And so, like, of all the things I'm most grateful for, it's that, you know, the research was available and there was enough to put something together so that it didn't happen. And my kids are thriving, and I haven't had to deal with it. Neither are they. So just of all the things biohacking has brought me, it's healthy kids.

That's wonderful.

Right.

And that, I think, is something that. That's driving me to want to help educate on this, because that is critically important. And sure, it's. It's the period of my life that I am in. I have three small children, and. But it's. I feel like it's rare that we see another family with three small children that are healthy like ours, and that's really sad.

Yeah. And if you're listening to this and you have kids who aren't healthy, it's fixable.

It is.

It's really fixable. And it's the environment. What's the definition of biochem? Change the environment around you and inside of you so you have full control of your biology. Get rid of the xenoestrogens, get rid of the toxins, and that's the environment inside you and around you. And then magically, the body will take care of it.

Yep.

There's another population I want to talk with you about. When I was in my 20s and I was really sick, I started attending and then eventually running one of the first longevity or anti aging nonprofit groups in the country. So I learned biohacking from people in their 70s when I was in my 20s, and these people were more energetic with brains that work better than mine. Like, how are they doing that? And they gave me hope, but they also gave me the knowledge because they had wisdom and they had energy. And I'm looking at so many people with Alzheimer's and with Parkinson's and dementia. And it's like all of our elders that have already made all the mistakes that we're going to make, they're too tired to tell us what. What works and what doesn't work.

Yeah.

So how do we take our aging parents and make their brains work better? Like, what's the role of phosphatidylcholine?

I think that the massive detriment to the generation, like the boomer generation now is the low fat trend. Right.

It.

It destroyed their health. And if we can really. Because you still have a bit of the narrative. I mean, I think it's shocking that you would even go in and see low fat yogurt or low fat for children, children's yogurt pouches, they use low fat or non fat yogurt.

Why?

Like, it's mind boggling that it's still around and it's this pervasive still, and you're talking so many years later. So I think that that kind of set them up for a level of kind of detriment that we haven't seen before. And if you were kind of smart and you realize like cholesterol is not the enemy and you have to look at so many other things, then you're in a better camp than many others. But look at how many people are on statins still. I think for me, it's really, it's the same kind of biohacks that I'm doing. Right. It's diet, it's lifestyle, it's getting out in the sun, it's grounding, it's eating endogenous phospholipids, it's making sure that we're getting these healthy fats back into the brain and the body, because that is what is so critically important. The ability to synthesize phospholipids from foods decreases as we age. Decreases in like, by drastic amounts.

Maybe you should just supplement them so you have a young person's liver. It seems like a good idea, right? You want to hear something creepy about powdered milk and low fat milk?

I don't even know if I want to.

You sure? Oh, all right, here's the deal. Have you heard of Lord Rothschild? He's a pretty private person. This is very, very old, old money. And he's only issued two public proclamations in his life. And one of them was after the first studies came out on pasteurized milk that showed that rats had half as many healthy rat babies on pasteurized milk. So he issued a proclamation that we shall all have pasteurized milk. And to this day, I wonder if, like the incredible jackbooted idiocy around raw milk, why is that happening? Why is there so much power behind that? But one man who probably doesn't really like lots of peasants running around like us, maybe probably did something that wasn't so good for us. And if you powder milk, you're getting the very worst things. And all non fat, non fat products made for milk have powdered milk added back in. So when you're drinking skim milk, you're getting powdered milk plus milk water with none of the good fats. Like, it's horrible.

Yeah.

So anyway, and I think that's affected.

The population of boomers more than any other.

Oh, yeah.

Because we are now, I think as a whole, more educated, you see more mothers even giving whole milk, whether it's pasteurized or not. That's. That's a different story.

But at least it's whole milk.

At least it's whole milk.

I'm with you there. Talk to me about liposomal phospholipids and cognitive health. Are these a nootropic?

I think it is. I don't think it's defined as one, but I think it should be because that's the first thing people notice is better brain function, better recall. I've had people who say they can, you know, speak Spanish again. They say they can recall phone numbers, credit card numbers, and it's not something so often I Hear people say, like, I started taking PC, but I don't really feel it. Then they stop taking PC, and all of a sudden their brain fog is back. And all of a sudden they can't remember their phone number anymore. And that's how you know it's a subtle change for some. You read some of our reviews and it's changed people's lives. That's a different story. For people who are experiencing neurodegeneration, you may experience symptoms much more rapidly or positive symptoms, positive benefits. But I would say that the driver that most people use it for is brain health.

You said something that's kind of a learning moment here. Back in my 20s, when I had just crippling brain fog, I. I bought disability insurance, this career in Silicon Valley, and I'm like, I can't remember anything. I've got to hide this. It was. It was really stressful. So I spent twelve hundred dollars on smart drugs. And they arrived from Europe in a, you know, plain white bag. And they were made by pharmaceutical companies. And this nootropics were not known like they are now. And I tried them for a week. I was so excited. And at the end of the week I'm like, what a scam. They don't work at all. So I quit taking them. And then two days later I'm like, wait a minute. And it turns out when I started taking them, my word recall was perfect. Yeah. And when I wasn't on them, it was just normally crappy. And so I didn't notice when things felt like they're supposed to feel, but I really noticed when they went back to the way they are not supposed to feel. So if you are listening to this and you try a nootropic or you try the body biophospholipids, do it for a week or two and then stop it for a few days and look for a decline. You go, oh my gosh. It turns out the improvement just felt so natural that you might not notice it.

Exactly.

And that really taught me to pay careful attention. In the first few years that I did this, I would actually track my working memory in a very quantitative way. And this goes way back. Now, there's apps that do this for you, but back then, on the first generation of smartphones, there was an app called FreeCell. FreeCell.

I don't.

Okay, it's a game of solitaire, but it's a game where there's a theory that you can win every game if you play it right. And so if you can play it, well, your working memory remembers where everything is on screen. You know, what's cards to put? Where it's kind of a little strategy game.

Yeah.

And you know, oh, when my brain's working, I can just play it. And when your brain isn't working, you can't remember and you're always grasping. So this became for me like a, a thermometer or like a blood pressure cuff. Like, how's my brain doing today? And I would notice the days where I was just cooked because I couldn't play stupid card game. And then days when I was doing pretty well, it would just flow. So this.

Maybe we should use that as part of our clinical study.

We could, but there's much better now, free apps on the phone that'll do all sorts of tests of brain function. Yeah. And if you go back about five, six years, there was this big. A couple different companies, I forget their names, who were doing, you know, brain training games on the phone that actually did work, even though I think they got shut down for whatever reason. But I would just say you can do that. And I think people will notice a difference. Except the difference isn't one that you're going to notice unless you're trained to notice. Yeah, I can feel it now because I know both states because I've gone back and forth enough. But for an average listener, an average person feeling more like yourself. You just feel like yourself. Yeah, but it's the more part that's hard to feel.

I have a story about mold toxicity that's quite interesting.

Talk about that.

So my husband was experiencing some kind of histamine issues and did some routine functional testing. Of course not, you know, your normal testing, but we had to go to a functional practitioner to, to get some testing done in his vibrant wellness. Total Talks had high levels of mold. And I noticed, I thought about it, I said, okay, well, one of our sons has, keeps getting croup every time he gets sick. Then another one is exhibiting some kind of inattention issues at school. He's just started school. I didn't feel anything. I take a ton of phospholipids. Right. My husband does too. The whole family really does. But those were our symptoms. Our levels were through the roof. We had mold in our H Vac, we had mold in our crawl space. We had mold in the kids closet in the bathroom.

You're so lucky it did just take you out.

But we had a baseline of health that was so much higher than other people because we take so many supplements. And I wouldn't Say I'm like a crazy 50 person a day. I take probably 10 to 12 supplements a day.

You call me crazy. I'm 150 a day.

150.

Yeah.

I'd like to actually see you how you take it.

Oh, you haven't seen it?

No.

It's so funny. I'll take like a full handful.

And like, how many in a handful?

As many as you can fit in your hand. Like a full.

Impressive.

Yeah, it was really funny. Do you know Liver King is.

Yes.

So a while ago, he's like, I'm taking 20 supplements a day. Rips his shirt off and does that. And anyone who could take more supplements than me is more of a man or something. So I'm like, so I ripped my shirt off and do the thing. And I'm like, well, here's 30. And it was really funny because, I mean, it's all in good humor. Of course, his followers called him Liver Queen after that for a day. So, sorry, Liver King. That wasn't really an attack. I was just like, let's take a lot of supplements. But I just decided, I don't care if I have expensive pee. Like, I knew what each of them does.

I agree.

And I'm.

And I've gone through periods where I've taken a lot more. I was taking upwards of about 40, particularly after the mold toxicity. Yeah. Was really kind of focusing on my health. I really. And we were very lucky. So we had no symptoms, but what we did is we looked at a test which you saw that it was in your DNA adducts. And you see, I could see that a specific type of mold was sitting in a specific adduct that would cause early onset Parkinson's.

There you go.

And that is a direct correlation through research that they can see. And so I knew you've got to obviously take it seriously, even if you can't feel the mold, it's in there.

In fact, Dale Bredesen, who's a friend, has been on the show talking about his book the End of Alzheimer's. And he's the first major doctor to say one of the causes, not the only cause, one of the causes of Alzheimer's is toxic mold.

Yeah.

And so if you take stuff like phosphatidylcholine, at least the liposomal form you guys are making, and you have it regularly, the toxin exposures you get in the moldy hotel room or the one that smells like carpet fresh or whatever else, you're just going to flow them out of the body instead of falling onto Them. So building more resilient humans is a major part of biohacking. I want everyone listening and everyone they know and all the ones they don't know, just to be able to handle anything life brings your way. And that means having enough energy in your mitochondria, which means handling the toxins that come your way without it taking you out. Okay, so far today, we've talked about the phosphatidylcholine that you make at Body Bio. We've talked about tudka, which is something that helps a lot with liver function. And you guys also make that. We've talked about your omega 6 and 3 oil. What's that thing called?

Balance oil?

Balance oil. Okay, cool. I'm. I'm like a low dose on that kind of stuff. I'm still a little. You don't want to overdose on that.

But you should talk to Ann Chippy about that.

Yeah. Oh, I have. Yeah. We have done her a lot. She's a dear friend. So I don't have a problem with taking a small amount of omega 6 and 3.

That's why if you're optimizing your intake through diet for people who aren't or for people who are looking for fertility things, it's very important.

I. I'm with you there. I just. I don't want followers to go out and put, you know, half a cup a day because some of that, like, that's going to be too much. But, you know, a couple teaspoons, go for it.

Yeah.

And then we talked about. We didn't talk about it. It's mostly on the last episode. One of my favorite postbiotics is butyrate or butyric acid. And you make sodium and calcium, magnesium, butyrate, which is a great postbiotic. People with healthy microbiomes make some on their own.

Yeah.

But when you take that stuff, it helps. In fact, there are multiple parents and doctors who are now using that stuff for autism because it seems to reduce brain inflammation. In fact, there's studies that show that butyric acid will do that. So I take butyric acid.

It's great.

Yeah.

And I think so much of it gets disrupted in the gut by glyphosate and different herbicides and exposures to things like that. Antibiotic use over time, obviously, will disrupt the microbiome greatly. I think taking exogenous butyrate is very therapeutic and helps with so many different things. It's part of the body bioprotocol that my grandparents initially put together in, actually, for its role in detoxification, which is really interesting. Its role as a chemical chaperone in kind of helping to normalize things going on in the cell and the toxic exposures in the cell as is Tudka. And so taking kind of a protocol. This is what many doctors do. They put people on these protocol of all the supplements together along with liposomal glutathione.

So in fact I'm the very first liposomal glutathione in the world that was launched. Was launched by a guy named Tim Guilford who was a physician friend and I helped him to do that.

Nice.

So I've been a glutathione fan. It's been part of biohacking forever.

That's great.

So when you stack all of these detoxing and cell membrane support things up, you have a body, your hardware that is better able to, to cope with the environment that we built. And you don't do this because you're afraid. You do this because you want to feel good all the time. And I think it's, it's a noticeable difference. Yeah. And I'm a big fan of the PC that you guys make.

Thanks.

And especially of the butyrate. So these are meaningful things you can do. So thank you for continuing your grandparents mission at BodyBio. And guys, I always ask for a code if we're going to go deep on nerdy stuff like this with someone who makes good stuff. So here's a cool thing. Now we were going to do 15% off for you but because of a huge amount of pressure I think. Is that what you could say? That's what did it. Jessica just said that she would do 25% value. So look, I want you guys to give this a try. So go to bodybio.com Dave and you get 25% off. Was off everything or just the PC?

You're gonna get it off everything.

All right. That's actually a serious discount. Thank you.

You know like the biohack should embrace and, and help spread the word of mouth. But we're the first people to try this kind of stuff, right?

We are indeed. You can also use Code Dave Asprey. But literally this was 15% when we started recording and you just got the upgrade. So bodybio.com Dave and you can use Code Dave Asprey if you want to as well. And you get 25% off and try the phosphatylcholine. Get a bottle of it and just take it for a week or two and see what your brain does. See what your body does and then decide if you want to keep doing it. I think you might like what happens. Thank you, Jessica.

Thanks for having me.

See you next time on the Human Upgrade Podcast.

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