How to Find Your Own Winning Lane – Danica Patrick with Dave Asprey : 825

Bulletproof Radio, a state of high performance.

You're listening to Bulletproof Radio with Dave Asprey today. I'm really excited about the show because our guest is Danica Patrick, who is a very talented person who you might have heard about from many different things. Oh, professional race car driver, sports announcer, a few super bowl ads here and there. And I'm really interested in talking with her because. Oh, and of course, she's running a winery now, amongst other things. But the reason I want to have her on the show today is that she's excelled in multiple arenas, like over and over and over, which is really hard to do it in one, but to do it in multiple ones. I want to pick her brain and figure out how she did it and maybe share some tips with you guys. Sound like plan? I'm asking my friends on the Upgrade Collective because we have a live studio audience. If you were in the Upgrade Collective, you would be a part of that as well. And you'd be on video. I'd be looking at you, seeing your comment thread throughout the interview. And at the end they'll get to ask Danica a few questions or upgradecollective.com is where you can go to join my mentorship and membership group where it's a lot of fun. Danika, welcome to the show.

Thank you. Upgrade Collective. I love that title. It feels so. Kind of got a woo woo feel to it. I like that.

Oh, thanks. It's about having a community and it's a little bit lonely in the pandemic, but even without that, if you're the only biohacker in your town, so you think, then you're like, where are my peeps? Well, there's more than 10,000 people coming to the biohacking conference in a week, so I'm pretty sure we're out here. We just had to get together, right?

Yeah. And I tell you what, somebody just asked me the other day in an interview, they're like, what are you into right now? And I was like, kind of. It was with vision. I'm like, I'm kind of into like biohacking. I feel like I've hit that point in my life where I'm like, hmm, I need to biohack.

I think, you know, Vishen's a good friend. He's a biohacker as well. And it's funny, you've done some really high intensity stuff like race car driving. Your reaction time has to be so crazy fast that a lot of people in either cognitive or reaction time sports, they end up Getting to be bulletproof for becoming biohackers and all. Did you do all sorts of like crazy, you know, next strength or neurological speed drills in order to become a world class driver like that?

No, no.

You were just good at it. Just like I was born this way.

Yeah, I woke up like this, you know, like that whole song. No, I mean, look, it's not fair to say no because here's the thing. I mean I started racing go karts when I was 10 and it continued to progress. So you know, when I hit 23 and got into an IndyCar and started going 240 miles an hour, that wasn't like all of a sudden, you know, it's a process. So you know, it, it's not fair to say I didn't do anything. I just didn't do anything outside of the sport itself. So I didn't have some kind of particular training or certain eye, hand coordination things that I did. I didn't. There was nothing, there was nothing more than just the practice of driving itself. So I feel like it's like, I mean, I mean maybe F1 drivers do some more of that stuff. I feel like they kind of get coached. I was just saying the other day that racing is one of those sports that we don't really have. Like, we don't really have coaches. Maybe a little bit here and there coming up, but not really like, it's like you get into all levels of other sports and you know, every, you know, quarterback has their, you know, quarterback, you know, coach. They have, you know, the pitching coaches. There's, there's, there's coaches for everything. And in racing it's not really like that. And so I wonder, but F1 has a little bit more of it. I bet if you talk to a formula one driver they might be able to have, they would have some things that they probably do. But for me I just, just drove. So what could have been?

Well, gee, I think you did all right without any special neurofeedback and you know, crazy, you know, electrically stimulated speed drills or something.

What would you like in first instinct of driving and needing eye, hand coordination, Focus, precision, stamina. What would you do if you were to like biohack that right off the top of your head? What would you do?

This is gonna sound stupid because it's self serving, but it's not meant to be self serving. I really would start with bulletproof coffee because of the effect of. This is something. I haven't actually talked about this yet. Cause it's a study. I just came across. But when you get those tiny droplets of fat, they make something called CCK that turns off hunger, which is great. And I've talked about CCK a lot. But what CCK also does that I just realized is it's anti anxiety, it's stress reducing and it turns off inflammation in the brain. So you have enough stress coming in. There's, there's physical vibration, there's noise, there's focus and you know you're opening your senses and you know you could die if you do it wrong. So like all of those are there and if you can just turn that down a little bit while turning up energy, it's, it really helps. That's why there's extreme skiers and lots of high performance, high speed athletes. Do the bulletproof thing. But I would stack Keto prime, which makes your mitochondria better able to make energy. And then I would want Aniracetam, which is a pharmaceutical kind of gray zone nootropic. It's approved in much of the world. The US pretends it doesn't exist. Increases oxygen in the brain, increases memory IO it's also the only one of those that slightly lowers, slightly lowers anxiety. So now you're a little bit more chill, but you're totally dialed in. And Nick Foles was on, he talked about his stack before he did the super bowl and kind of similar stuff like that. I don't think he was on Anorastime. I don't know if that one's approved, but the idea is like more energy, less stress, more dialed in. And I've measured my reaction time. Danica, cognitively, the 40 years of Zen stuff. This is to visual and audio stimulation. I have the average brain response time of a 20 year old and I'm 48, so I haven't lost it the way it declines linearly with time. So I think this stuff works because, you know, data wise it is. So let's get you, let's get you on the stack and throw you back in a car. What do you think?

I'm curious. I'm super. I mean like I, I'm sure, I mean if we need to do a back to back one day versus the next, but maybe we need to date do three because there needs to be like a warm up day, you know, sort of typical Danica and then stacked.

Danica, do you still go out on the track? Do you have one near, near your winery or anything or.

Yeah, well, there's, there's one. I live in Arizona, I live in Scottsdale. So there's tracks all around. The last time I actually like hit it on a track though was this probably a year and a half ago. At least. I took, I had to fulfill an auction item of two seater rides with me. So it was out in Sonoma and so I gave them a ride. But then I also created a package like Christmas present for my family and I titled it drinking and Driving. And so I took him out to Napa and.

You're a bad person.

I'm sort of funny, but not that funny. And we obviously went wine tasting and then I very soberly drove them around the track and gave them two seater rides for the first time. But that was the last time I did it. And it was in a sports car. So it wasn't even like a full open wheel car, like a real, real race car. It was a real race car at one point in time.

Okay, guys, it's been converted.

Yeah.

Do you self identify as a race car driver or as like a model, actress, whatever you want to call yourself, like when you think about yourself, when, when no one's asking you, like, like what does the voice in your head say? Or something else maybe. I don't know.

Oh, I don't know. Seeker, truth seeker, student, race car driver? Yeah, I'm super. I'm. That's why I have a podcast is because I just love talking to people and I love learning and I realize that, you know, there's some level of processing that ends up happening when you're doing interviews, self reflective stuff. You've probably felt that yourself.

That's why I started this too. Like you're totally on the right path. It's the best way to learn. You talk to someone and suddenly you're like, oh, this person is smart. Smart. They've done something.

Yeah. So doing the interviews, I definitely self process. But like having, meaning this situation where you're asking me questions, but when I ask questions to other people, I, number one, had to practice learning how to shut up. But then after that I realized just how much like I feel like my intelligence is gaining so much speed at such a rate because I'm constantly absorbing new information about people, whether it's emotional personality and human experience or whether it's just expert level stuff, whether it's science, you know, some, somebody in an expert in their field where I have to feel I want to make sure I'm respectfully ready.

There's a lot of prep that goes in. Right. Your podcast is called pretty intense. How many episodes have you had? Do you have out now? I didn't check.

It's almost. It's like almost 90.

90.

Yeah. So almost two years I've been doing it.

Was it hard to learn how to interview people a little?

Is it not? Actually, what I would say is it wasn't hard to learn. It wasn't hard to interview people. But there was a transition that happened within number one. I said learning how to listen and then listening to understand and not respond. So there's usually a question within the answer that someone gave if you're paying attention. But if you get distracted by, like, a note card with stuff on it that you want to ask them, you can and miss the flow and miss the depth of the information being shared because you're so distracted thinking about something else to do. And then my prep has changed.

So I think I was not that good of a podcaster when I started, because, like, you, like, I'd want to talk to these people and learn, and eventually you realize there's a way to get the flow going. And I've worked on my prep for a long time. So how much time do you spend prepping before you interview someone?

A couple hours per guest. So I usually. I used to have a researcher that would send me 10 to 15 pages worth of research on someone, and I'd read through the research. I'd circle things that were interesting, write notes in the column about ideas, questions that I had, and then I'd go in afterwards, and I'd kind of look at all my bullet points and circles and underlines, and I go, this is a good place to start. And then I just create a flow with the stuff that I ended up feeling like was the high points. Then since I started sort of calling up my own people and, you know, sending messages and DMS are super effective, and, you know, just started collecting my own interviews. Then I was like, man, I. I don't. I don't. I wasn't going through the normal processes. So I didn't. The researcher wasn't in the loop. And so since I also knew them so well, I was like, hmm, I think I could do my own questions here for this person. And. And so I just do all my own research now. Now my format is I basically start listening to podcasts that they've been on, watch YouTube videos, Google some various different things. And so I usually listen to an hour or two worth of them speaking and being interviewed and make my notes. And a lot of times, the questions that I come up with aren't necessarily the question asked that I like. It's in the answer they gave, I'm like, o, I know they're willing to talk about this. So I write something down and then I go through and I usually have like. Like both sides of a legal pad, like front and a back of a page. And I have come up with all these ideas, and then I just, like, put them in order of like, 10 good questions and write them down. And by the time I've done that, I've pretty much got it memorized, and then I don't need it again.

That answer is so good, it's going to help so many people who are doing their own podcasts. So thank you.

How do you do it?

Well, we're on pushing 900 episodes now, and I'm running five companies, so I don't. And there's the books that I. You've written a book. You know how much time that takes. So. And the whole parenting thing. So I would say that I don't listen to other interviews that they do. I just don't have the bandwidth to do that unless I'm going to take them somewhere else. So I have my team help me prepare some kind of. Like, you had researchers researching things. Usually I've skimmed or read portions of their book or heard a few snippets of interviews, so I get the right vibe. And if I asked for the guests to be on the show, it's like, oh, I'm familiar with their work or they've done something. Usually those are nerdier. And then other times there's like, oh, this would be a really fun thing. Like, I wanted to. You. You've excelled in multiple domains. Like, you know what? Like, how do you do all that? That's really interesting to me. So I was very happy to have you on the show. So it depends too, on. On the type of guest. And, like, everyone's heard of you and. But I'm like, there's probably stuff I don't know about. Like, I didn't know about your winery experience, but certainly the race cars and the, The. The TV experience and all that is, you know, you're famous for that. Speaking of that, what was it like when you became famous, what did that do to you?

Well, it was a point in time called Danica Mania. I didn't give it that name, but it was my first Indy 500 in 2005. And you know what's funny is I kind of felt sort of like on the scene before that. But, you know, I'd go to. I was. When I was racing the two. The level Below, Indy cars hold Formula Atlantic. I would go to the track and I would have banners up everywhere, commercials running during broadcasts and during the IndyCar races that I wasn't even in because I was in the lower level because I had a sponsor that was into promoting. And so I kind of felt like I was the most sort of popular, you know, publicized driver at the track anyway, and. But, you know, it's funny. There's, like, new levels all the time, and it's still kind of happens like that. Like, now my life gets put out there for having my, you know, dog attacked by coyotes and news flash. And, you know, starting to date someone's a news flash. And, you know, it's like, that's the weird stuff that, you know. Or I. I did a workout and they post. You know, it's just, like, silly because. Especially because media turns over so quick. There's so much and so much. They're always looking for content. But. But, yeah, I mean, it was probably 2005 Indy 500, and after it just. I. I almost qualified on the poll, and then I almost won the race, and it was just a big hoopla. And, yeah, Danica Mania came about, and I was on the COVID of Sports Illustrated right after that, and that was probably the start.

Did it go to your head the.

Very first, like, that month of May, because it used to be called the month of May because you were at Indianapolis Motor Speedway on track for almost a month. And I got towards the closer to the race, and I felt like. And I just told my PR guy. I was like, I don't want to do anything. Nothing, Absolutely nothing. Don't ask another question. Don't ask for another interview. And he's like, good Morning America wants to talk to you. I'm like, I told you. No, like, absolutely not. Nothing. I think I did that one because they came to the track. But other than that, I. I was just, you know, you just kind of have it up to here. And so. But then it became much more of a balance, and I learned how I like to organize my. Organize my life and my schedule so that it was efficient maximizing of opportunities, yet still allowed for recovery.

You don't look or feel stressed. You actually kind of have a pretty chill, happy, kind of curious vibe. Is that real, or are you just, like, projecting that?

No, that's pretty much it. I. It's funny. I. And it's. I've realized actually how chill I am. I. I mean, I. I think it's because I've been in relationships for so long. Like, I was in, basically in a relationship for 16 years with three different people, and I didn't, you know, I didn't realize where I oriented. But, like, I wake up and I let the dogs out. I make some coffee. I might watch some YouTube videos, turn some music on. I'm playing, like, East Forest or like Amos Lee or David Gray or something very relaxing. And then I just kind of get going, and I need about an hour, at least. I'd say an hour in the morning. And then I went out and did like a little cardio run, and then I came in and I relaxed and got ready. I love my mornings. So I set the pace from the very beginning. Sometimes I get up and I meditate, but I'm feeling pretty Zen.

All right, so it's not really the, you're used to the, you know, media coverage about stuff that doesn't matter, like, you know, little dog inner altercations or something. Yeah, but you're also, you've got Danico Rose, you've got Somnium, you've got your wineries, and you've got a podcast and you've got a book and sort of a bunch of different projects. Is there one that has most of your attention? That's you putting the intensity that you put when you're trying to win NASCAR or something, something that you're really pushing on? Or is this more like these are passion projects and you're, you just, you just want to do it?

Well, there's two parts to that answer. One is yes, they're just passion projects. You know, I was fortunate enough to have a great career, and anything that I do after, in fact, I just end up, I'm actually just been spending a lot of money, like, to make the podcast, like, to, you know, for my winery, I just spend a lot of money. So it's not like I've retired, and it's, you know, just sort of like a, you know, a river of, of money just flowing in. But that's because they're new projects. So anytime you start something new, they take a while. As you know, you've started many companies, like, they start somewhere. And so, so it's kind of in that investing into time and brand and reach sort of point in time right now. So I, I, I love them. They're all, they all were born from just an idea. And that's, I think what's crazy and fascinating is I can just, I remember all of these things just as a. And so thoughts become things. And, you know, it's like a good Reminder to think about the things that you want, not the things that you don't want. And, and, but I will say that the one thing that I've done at this point in my life with one of them is something I've really never done before, and that's study. So for the podcast, I never, like, I never studied in school. I literally just took to, I don't, I don't ever remember studying. Now, mind you, I did leave school when I was 16 and didn't go to college. Like, I have my GED. I, I was a junior in high school when I left to move to England to race. So I, I, I, I didn't get all the years that someone may get that would really need to study, but still, I didn't study. And then even with racing, they'd send you. You could take home, like, a little disk and look at EFI data, which is basically a graph that shows speed, throttle, braking, lateral GS, Excel, like, acceleration, all RPM. It shows what gear you're in. It can show all that stuff.

Like an aura ring for a car, right?

Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. And so they would send it home and, you know, to some degree, there's a little bit of taking it home to make them, to make them think you care. But I didn't really always look at it. Sometimes I did, and then it just wouldn't necessarily be a good weekend. And then all of a sudden you'd have, I'd have one weekend where I stayed up late and I was not looking at any data and I didn't do anything. And then I'd have a fantastic weekend. And so the, the being able to pin down exactly what made a good weekend was not clear. There's too many factors.

Yeah. I mean, there's stuff that we just don't think about. Like, even in lab stuff, like, oh, we controlled for all the variables. Like, what was the phase of the moon like? Oh, we didn't control over that one. I'm like, well, that might be a variable that matters. Right. But no one thought about it. So it's really. We control the stuff we thought about. And really what made it a good day for you might have been entirely different.

Right, right, exactly.

So there's something that happens to certain kinds of brains, and when you go faster, you drop into a flow state. So for me, when I was in my late teens, early 20s, probably the most reliable way for me to slow down and go into flow was to get on a mountain bike going faster than was safe, or to drive really Fast in a car. And is driving fast relaxing for you?

Yeah, I think that it got coined by a monk as being, like, my moving meditation. Yeah, he told me I should write a book called the Speed of Consciousness.

Oh, that's a great title.

I also process really fast.

You process? So are you smarter than the average bear?

I don't know about that, but I process really fast. I process information fast. In fact, I kind of just do everything fast. I eat fast, I drive fast. I think fast.

All right, so your. Your high speed and all that and driving. The reason I'm asking is, like, you don't strike me as someone with add, but a lot of drivers, people like that, like, they're. They want to go fast because there's, like, an anxiety there, but I'm just not picking that up in you. And it's. It's is kind of weird, actually. It's not what I expected.

Yeah, that's good. I like that. I loved, like, executing with precision and perfection. Like, I loved being so dialed in and so focused and hitting my marks. Everything from turn in to apex to throttle to wall to, like, I loved. I loved being, like, nailing it.

There's, like, the elegance of it. Is that like, just the precision and elegance? Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. And so while it's chaos kind of it as it happens, there's like, a dance happening within the car of, like, you know, just a little of this and just. And just touch the throttle and just get the car to turn and just like, there's. There's like a. A dance to it that is you. You don't really want to be, like, harshly aggressive in the car, even though what's going on with the car can be kind of harsh.

Okay, I hear you. I've never been in an actual race. I've been out on a track and. And had a heck of a good time, just because going fast is awesome. You have another thing that. That you've done that I want to ask you about. Clearly, you're not dealing with fear when you're on a track, at least the vast majority of the time. Right. And I've made it a point to go out and say, all right, if something is fearful for me, I'll go do it, just because I don't want to be walking around carrying fear that it's doing things. So I'll go fast in a. And do whatever, because I'm at some level afraid of being alone or afraid of being hungry. Well, there. I just did both. And you actually did something with Bear Gryllis. And you went on this Running Wild show. Tell me what you did. Because that's a show about doing things that scarier than us. What did you do? Right now, your body might be wasting energy on stress instead of healing. That's why your gut feels off, your brain feels dull, and your immune system keeps letting you down. What if you could switch your healing state back on without meds, stimulants, or guesswork? Vibrant Blue Oil's parasympathetic essential oil blend is a powerful, non invasive way to activate your nervous system and shift your body into healing mode just through scent. A drop behind your ears can help switch off your stress response, calm inflammation and support digestion, detox and immune function. And it can even help clear up your stubborn brain fog. It's natural, easy to use, and thousands of happy customers already love it. And right now, the Human Upgrade podcast listeners can grab a full size Bottle for over 50% off@vibrantblues.com Dave that's vibrantblueoils.com Dave don't wait to start feeling like yourself again.

It is. And heights scare me the most. Which is exactly why I said yes. Which is exactly why I bungee jumped a couple of times too. Is because I'm maybe. I don't know. I don't tell me if this rings a bell. I don't. It's not like I'm over the fear. I just like to know that if I have to overcome it, I can. I just like to know I can do it.

That you're not going to freeze?

Yeah. Yeah. I just like to know I can do it. And so. And it's like a mini. It's like a challenge. In fact, I just kind of like challenging myself. I've realized that that's what I thrive. That's where I thrive is, is whether it was pushing a car to the very limit or interviewing someone that, you know, I'm, you know, like intimidated by or hosting the ESPYs and, you know, not being funny at all. And I'm like, how am I going to do this? And then. Or even in a workout, right? The one thing that I have a really hard time disciplining myself on is fasting. That's. I'm not very good at that. But anyway, I like to challenge myself. So Bear Grylls and I did a lot of that. So I like, ate a scorpion. We like rappelled down mountains. I pulled myself across a canyon on a rope, which was literally all I had to get across, which is saying something. I jumped out of A helicopter skydiving at 10 or 11,000ft. It was definitely. Yeah. Oh, my God. Bear taught me. The thing that Bear showed me was not only facing your fear, but, like, facing it and doing it. Now there's, like, a nowness to him. It's like there's no time to ruminate on what's about to happen. You just do it.

I think there's wisdom in that. I used to have a fear of heights, and so I made myself lean over the edges and do all the things. And I did the bungee jumping thing, too. And I learned that you really better cinch that thing up, because at least for guys, you're gonna get smashed when you bungee jump. And that was not. Not a good learning experience for me. But I have zero issues with heights now. Zero at all.

Where'd you bungee jump?

Oh, I did it in Central California. They had some tower up there. It was. It was nothing. That was, you know, epic and amazing, but now no issues like. Like, heart rate doesn't change. It's. Oh, it's just a thing. But it took me a while to get there. But it was the irritation that I knew that I was safe, but that my body didn't feel safe. And it was the mismatch of my thoughts and then my physical state. And now I realized it's. You know, I kind of had that all wrapped up or had that all mixed up where it turns out, usually the physical state, you make up a story in your thoughts about your physical state, but I just didn't think it should be that way. So it was irritating. And now, though, if I identify something's pushing a button, I'm like, all right, I'm going to either go do it and then become deconditioned, or I'm going to find out why it pushes the button. Then I'll do a neurological technique to just turn it off, because it's not a useful survival instinct. I just don't want to waste cycles on it. Kind of like, you know, when you hit the inside of a turn just right, you know, and you're hitting all your marks perfectly in my mind when you're going through your day, and if your alert system doesn't get triggered by stupid shit all day long, then I hit my marks all day long. But if five times, why is that happening? Why am I a little off my game? Oh. Some part of me is worried about something that's not real. No, that's not elegant. It's not beautiful. I don't want to do that. So it's a game I'm playing with myself around that, but that's how I do it.

Now, what was the last thing that you found yourself feeling like you needed to face and deal with?

Actually, it was. It was this morning. I'll be super, super transparent about that. So the hardest of all the human emotions to. To detect in yourself or in other people is envy. Like, of all the bad stuff people do. And that comes from Robert Greene, the guy who wrote 48 Laws of Power. If you haven't read the Laws of Human Consciousness or. No, the Laws of Human Nature, like, one of the top 10 books I've ever read. And he describes envy, and he describes the antidote for envy. So I don't want to walk around with envy because it costs you money. Like, not money dollars, but it costs you emotional money, costs you time. So this morning, there's a company that, oh, a few years ago, copied a bunch of my stuff and then led a campaign of. I'll call it harassment and discrediting against me personally as a part of the competitive strategy. It was dirty. And that company got acquired a couple days ago, right? And at first I'm like, douchebag, you know? But then I was like, hold on, hold on. That's not serving me at all. I've already done a bunch of forgiveness and all this stuff. So then I used the technique that Robert talks about. I'm like, okay, I don't like it that I went to douchebag mode, even though it was probably well deserved. So then I said, all right, put yourself in the other guy's shoes and imagine how awesome it'd be for that to happen to you. So then I did that little hack, which is the fastest way to turn off envy. And I'm like, man, his shoes kind of smell bad. But all right, that's fine. I can still be like, all right, good for him, good for his investors, your older employees. And there's a lot of people experiencing joy. And there's actually a good upside because it means that the industry that I'm in, it's growing, it's thriving. But I don't like it that my immediate response wasn't the proper one, that it was the improper one. But that's human nature. So I'm just like, how do I polish human nature? So kind of a long answer when I'm supposed to be interviewing you, but it was a cool question, so thank you.

Yeah, yeah. What did you. I mean, like, I'm super. Like, what came up? What. What did you See within yourself that you were not that needed balancing.

I think it's natural for that stuff to happen. But normally it wouldn't have been an issue. But it's like when you have someone who's come after you personally to make money and then they get rewarded. I'm like, seriously, the whole injustice. What is going on here? So I think that was probably the thing there. And I don't think I'm quite the sense of equanimity around injustice.

I was gonna say you don't. You don't like. You don't like something that's unfair?

No, and I don't think life is fair. It's fine if it's unfair, but, like, if someone does bad things, I don't like when they get rewarded. I like it when people do bad things, fall down and stub their. At least their face on something.

Because you would never do it. Like, the reason you would never do it. So, like, there's a great, like, anything that I judge, I look at and I'm like. And usually the other side of it is that I deny it. Right? So, yeah, if I judge something like, you, dick, you capitalized on me and you took advantage of me. It's because I would never do that. Like, I would never allow that to be my, My, My way of operating. And so, you know, it kind of shows you.

You.

It's like I've been. I love sort of quantum science and I love physics and I love reality. And so, you know, it's this sort of thought that, like, our reality is really just a reflection of us and showing us. Us. It's simple in that way, but it's compl. Actually see ourselves. And so we need other people to bounce off of. To actually see ourselves. So in seeing this. This person act in a certain way, you can see yourself to be a very fair person.

I really like that. Well, how do you keep people from taking advantage of you? I mean, the more fame, power, wealth, et cetera that you accumulate, the more people try to take advantage of you. So how do you, like, what are your filters? How do you stop people from taking advantage of you when you're not paying attention in a way that you wouldn't?

I mean, the only way you really can is to really micromanage. I feel right there's got to be some sort of hovering of situation to really be in control of it. And that's not. To me, that's diminishing returns on my investment of time. So I would rather go in with trust and just understand that sometimes it's the price of business. Like sometimes there are just people that do those things. There are just situations that come up and, you know, I mean, I don't think that. I don't think most people are like, terribly vindictive and want to burn you to the ground or, or treat you like crap. I think it's their own insecurities and you can't control that. Right. I think people are generally good. It's just that we have so much conditioning from a young age that we don't. We're not even aware of that makes us feel a lack. So we take more. Right. That could be the situation. Like somebody could just be taking, taking, taking because they actually have a lack mindset. Even though they're accumulating, there's going to be a balance at some point in time. Maybe it's that, you know, this person doesn't have friends. Maybe it's that it comes to bite them. Maybe it's that something fails in the future. Whatever it is. I believe in the balance of, of our life. So, you know, I guess I just look at it like I'm just glad that, you know, if something bad happens and someone takes advantage of you, then. Or someone takes advantage of me, I think to myself, well, number one, they're fired. Or number two, they're, you know, they're not a friend, whatever that situation is, you don't need to be in proximity anymore. But then I just, just, you know, there's like a level of empathy or sympathy that someone has to go about their, their life like that to. And that's their reality. It's a really, It's a crappy one, you know, to be in a situation where you make people feel bad because on the other side of that, for them too, there's a level of shame that's not being really, like transparent in the situation. But anytime you hurt someone else, you always feel bad. There's always a part of you, the inner child in you is going like, you know, that didn't feel good. And that's because our nature is love. Like our nature is truth and kindness and love. And so anytime that something comes in that's not that, whether it's something done to us or something we do to ourselves. There's the lack of resonance because it's not actually who we are.

I think you're too nice.

Maybe.

Here's why I would have shared very similar mindset. And I've had the benefit of looking at brain scans of more than a thousand people who've done 40 years of Zen, the neurofeedback thing. And I'm studying with one of my favorite guests and a good friend, Dr. Barry Morgellon. He's the oral lineage of Lao Tzu, kind of a real life Dr. Strange, a Western doctor from UCLA who studied in a remote monastery where no white person's ever gone. And like kind of a spiritual master who does very high end work. And he taught me Lao Tzu's way of, of categorizing people. And I totally want to share it with you because I think it'll be helpful. And there's four categories that Barry taught me about. One of them is people are win win. Like if I do something, you're going to do something else. I don't do it. They're very rare, but they're always win win, right? They're one in a million. Then you get these category twos. These are people who are usually win win, but they screw up. And sometimes they're win lose because their ego gets in charge of them or whatever. But when you call them on it, they're like, oh, sorry, let me make that right. I'll apologize, I'll pay you back, I'll repaint the car, whatever. They're good people working on being better people. And that's most people. And you get category threes, which are the ones you just talked about. These are people who are win lose, but they don't know it because they're too traumatized. So every time they win, someone else has to lose, but they tell themselves it wasn't them. So, like, I don't know why, there's bodies all around me. It wasn't me. Like, I don't know, everything fails. But I'm working so hard and I've got your back. And those people are so toxic and like, you have to get them out of your life in your company. And they're the ones with the shame that you're talking about, but they don't recognize it, but it's all in there. And they're just like a ball of misery. But it's the fourth category. It's the sociopaths and psychopaths. Four percent of people, they actually get off on this. Like, ah, win, lose, and I got it. So they don't feel the shame that you and me and normal healthy people would feel. And then it's not that they suppress the shame, it's just not there. They replace it with joy. And those people, it's like if you can spot him and you get them the Hell out of your world. But it's that fourth one that I was ignoring because I was like, yeah, everyone should feel bad for being, you know, really mean. But it turns out some people don't, and realizing that changed things.

That's fascinating. I mean, I was thinking about that too. Like, I interviewed Dr. Romney, who's an expert in narcissism, and I'm like, ooh, narcissists fit into. I thought, fourth. But no, they're like the third category because they actually have deep shame. They just have. They wear such a mask and so they. They're like. They make it everyone else's problem. But yeah, the sociopaths are. Are definitely a breed of their own. But That's a lot. 4%.

Yeah. Isn't it crazy?

I mean, I have a hundred friends, I'm sure. So, like, four of them are sociopaths.

That. That's the challenge is. Is making sure you have good filters because your hundred friends are selected by you. So you have a selection bias of you being. The better we are at awareness and consciousness, the better we are at spotting the people, the, you know, the. The wolves in sheep's clothing kind of thing. So fortunately for you, I doubt it.

Oh, well, I've been thinking about that a lot, and I. I feel like there's, like, we're living in a day and age where we don't know what the heck to trust, right? You turn on the news and like, that's like, number one, like, not that. And then the newspaper, you're like, not that. And then you're like, you don't. You watch a documentary. And now you're like, not that because who paid for it? Like, who do you trust, right? There's. We don't know what is legitimately objective information anymore. And so for me, I think what this is asking of us as culture, as humans is to go into the emotional body, which is like, I think, our inner guidance, our. Our emotions, our. Our. Our intuition, our. The consciousness that we don't really acknowledge, but it's up there and out there and all around is giving us the answer. It's like, you can. But we're so conditioned and there's so much going on. There's, you know, our phones keep us busy and the TV and then the kids, and then the this and then the that, and this is disappointment. And there's so much going on that keeps us distracted. And I think this is why meditation has become more popular, is because people have this, like, one thing they can do that, like, quiets them down and it gets rid of some noise to the point where you can start to hear that, start to understand, feel it, start to know it. Because it's not really like actually hearing all the time. It's like knowing. It's a level of knowing. And so I think that that's what's kind of being asked of us as, as, as humans is that we learn how to get back into that emotional body and let that be the ultimate sort of lie detector test for situations. So whether it be what politician to trust or you know, which diet seems to be the best for you or what person should be in your life, there's debt, there's always something inside of you and you can kind of like ask po like, you know, triggering questions, like, you know, to get sort of yourself prompted, like maybe journaling or something like that. But it's there. It's there. Do you agree?

I. I think, I think so. It is in there. If you can just get past all the noise. Do you. Does normal meditation work for you?

Here's. No.

So it doesn't, does it?

No, I'm. I mean I have done plenty of it. I was pretty consistent for about, I don't know, eight months. And recently, and I'd say the last month I haven't been. And, and you can see I'm just chaos over here. Right. So here's the thing. I think it, it's. There should be like mindfulness modalities. There should be a book on all the modalities because what works for one doesn't always work for another. Just like a diet, you know, there's that work for one and not for another because everyone is uniquely individual. And so, you know, there are things that are good and are bad, but like what really, really feels good for you and is something that you keep going back to that works and you can be consistent with. I think really varies. So I find that with me meditation, like I sit down and I can get to the point where I can literally leave my body and be. I can't remember time anymore. I'm like, how long was that? And then there's other times where it's just thoughts. But what I'm really, I think, good at is this sounds woo woo. But I just can speak to anyone at any time and anyone, I mean like anyone alive or anyone dead. Anyone. Like I literally just start speaking into the conscious collective, into, you know, the web of the universe and just, I mean anybody.

Did you ever read Think and Grow Rich?

No.

Okay.

But I've heard of it.

It's probably the most famous personal development businessy book ever from like 1920s. I read it when I was a teenager and it was, it was really transformative and probably three quarters of listeners have read it or know about it. But he describes a technique, I think he calls it a virtual. Maybe virtual is the wrong word for his time, but an imaginary round table. And one of his biggest performance techniques is he said, okay, you sit down. And this is totally weird for 100 years ago. He's like, okay, you sit down or lay down and take some deep breaths. And then what are the people throughout history who you most want to know from? And have an advisory table, an advisory council, and like sit them at the table and have a conversation with them and ask them anything you want and they'll actually talk back to you. He's like, everyone can do this. We just never thought of it. So did you just figure that out yourself or did someone teach you that?

Oh, just kind of figured it out.

Well, there you go.

And, and because it's like, when you do that, like, I can connect with my higher self. I could connect with a person that's alive. I can. And so I guess what I ended up feeling, I got. But I feel like it started with myself. But you know, when you go into these spaces, like, there's either an answer or there's nothing. So the fact that there's usually almost always like an answer every now and again, there's not. But like on answer, it's very clear, it's very direct, it's short, it's concise. The information is really very. That's streaming and flowing. That's why I know it's real, because I'm not forcing it. It's like, actually the more I think, the worse it is. It's like if you know, you want to, to connect with someone telepathically, like, or something like that, you, you close your eyes and if something doesn't come to you quick, then you're starting to make it up. You have to get before the mind, behind, before the thinking mind.

I, I love that. And I've, I've known people who can channel. I've interviewed a couple of them. And I'm always, as a sciency guy, I'm a little bit, a little bit skeptical, but also I've just seen stuff I can't otherwise explain. So if you're a curious scientist, like, okay, there's stuff we don't know. Oh, maybe we can figure it out one day, but you can tell when there's someone who switches out of channeling mode into like their own egos talking and then they switch back into channeling because they can't help but insert their own stuff. And you get someone who's like out of there and they're just talking like, I don't know what I just said, but they can both be valid. But I think that's similar to what you're talking about.

Have you ever talked to an Akashic reader?

Absolutely.

Yeah. Yeah, I have too. It's fun. I decided I went to Egypt in February and there was a girl that was on the trip. There was, was about 20 of us and one of them was an Akashic reader. And we, we saw another one while we were there. And anyway, that's kind of the world we were in. Very woo woo. I mean, we're in Egypt on a pilgrimage, so. So I ended up feeling like at the end of it, like I sat with her as she did an Akashic reading in between the paws of the Sphinx at five in the morning, like as the sun's coming up. And it was, was awesome. It was awesome. And so I got done and I ended up because a lot of going there was like, what do you want to call in? Like, what are you asking for? What do you want to know? And there's. I feel so blessed. Like, there's not a lot, like I really need. And so, you know, I started adding things like jet to the list and stuff like that because I'm like, what else do I need? And then I realized I was like, man, I should definitely become an Akashic reader. Why wouldn't. Why not? And of course I know that information is probably accessible anytime, but there's a formality to sort of entering into the space and tuning the frequency.

It takes a minute or two, like even for the most badass readers.

Yeah.

So I don't instantly. But you, you could totally do that.

Yeah.

What? There is a brain state, a quantifiable brain state that puts you there. That's. That's part of what we do at my neuroscience thing.

Which one?

It's a combination of where in the brain at the same time. Certain frequency. So it's not just like, oh, you need this frequency. And it's not just this half and this half, but it's like certain areas called Broadman's areas. But that's some of the stuff that in the more advanced neurofeedback training that I do, people who are into that, like they oftentimes, oh, I walked into The Akashic record accidentally, when they're doing a certain kind of training. I don't normally talk about that publicly because people like that doesn't. It's not. Doesn't exist. It's not real. But, hey, I don't know. If enough clients say the same thing and it matches a bunch of other data, I'll go with whatever the reality I perceive is. But it's a real thing that people tap into, or at least multiple people experience tapping into. Maybe it's fake and we all just experience the same fake, but I don't think that's likely. The whole Occam's Razor thing. So I love it that you're doing that kind of stuff. It's definitely in the land of woo. But when you measure the land of woo and you can turn it on and off with a certain signal, it starts to look a lot less like woo, and it starts to look like something else. And that's a big area of curiosity. Okay, so you're doing the esoteric kind of stuff. What other biohacks. A lot of people from the Upgrade Collective are saying. Well, actually, they're all saying, you should join the Upgrade Collective.

Maybe I should. I. I think I have. If I'm. I'm literally. I think I have on my phone. Oh, yeah, look. Look at what I have. 40 years of Zen.

No way that popped up.

Well, I have it in my. I have it on my page, like, in my safari. You know, when you have, like, all your pages, it's in there. Because I was like, oh, that seems interesting.

That's ridiculous. I had no idea.

As I filled my coffee hopper with both bulletproof beans. So what was the question? After? I just, you know, it was.

It was perfect. Queuing it up, I was like, so what are the. What are the biohacks that you're using these days? Because, people, you'd mentioned earlier, you're starting to biohack. So what. What's working?

The first one that I. That I've been doing lately is fasted morning runs. Like little cardio sessions, like. Like 30 minutes followed by, like, a cold shower, and then get on with my day. I'm not great at. I'm better at fasting from the evening than in the morning. So I like. I can do that. I can run on an empty tank, but I can't. I can't do, like, lifting. And those other things that I do, I get. I actually feel sick. It's like the opposite of people. People tend to eat and feel sick if they work out for me. If I don't eat, I feel sick.

So.

So I can do that. So that's kind of one of them that I've been doing. What else? I mean, I've been doing cold stuff for a while. I interviewed Wim Hof last summer. And so I was using my pool as the cold plunge, but it's too warm now. So I've decided I want an infrared sauna and a cold. A cold plunge for the house. Is the infrared sauna worth it?

Absolutely. I like the sunlight and I've had one for like, eight years now, I think. And the reason it's worth it is you can sit in there and be on the phone. You can watch something, listen to something, read something. So it's time that you get back because you're not really spending time on it. You have to take a shower when you're done, but you're probably going to take a shower that day anyway, so it isn't a big investment of time. Whereas some of the biohacks are, you know, invasive of your calendar. So I find it's just, you know, and I sometimes Alana and I will sit in there. So it's, you know, a couple times we can sit and talk and whatever. And when you're sitting and talking, you don't have any clothes on. That's not a bad thing, at least for couples. So, like, it's hard to lose with an infrared sauna, we'll put it that way.

Unless you're doing an Instagram live or something. And that just gets weird.

I've done that. But you're like, don't drop the camera, don't drop the camera. Just keep it up high, don't aim down. Yeah. And the cold plunge, they have chillers. I'm putting one in the house that we're building now, and I actually have one downstairs. But it's like a refrigerator with a pump. So then the water goes through it and you just get one of those and it's really easy to jump in.

Totally. I mean, the ice thing, like, I'm friends with Gabby Reese and Laird Hamilton, and so I feel like they've been pretty good pioneers for sort of the hot and cold contrasting. And so, you know, it's a pain in the butt to have, like. I mean, I don't know where I would get enough bags of ice to actually make it like a quarter. A quarter ice, but. So that's a good idea to get the recirculator. What else have I done? I've done blood tests in the past to, for food sensitivities, but I'm not sure. I mean I did one like probably seven or eight years ago and that's why I stopped having gluten, dairy, egg, all kinds of stuff just because it showed up on it. And then maybe you can enlighten me. Oh my God. Change my life today for me if you could. Only if it, it's real though. And then I took a blood test probably five or six years after that, which was maybe two years ago. And it was just, you know, pin pricked blood on the paper. Send it in now they have my DNA. But yet I also know some food sensitivity stuff. And so eggs came up again and I'm like, like I knew I ate a lot less then than I did the first time when I took it, but I really miss them.

Eggs are a really common allergen. I gave myself an egg allergy when I did the, I was doing the bulletproof diet sort of stress testing before I published it. So I did three months of like extreme keto with one serving of broccoli a day and nothing else except for fat and protein. And it gives you leaky gut like you can over keto, you can over fast, you can over vegan. And so that egg allergy, it is the biggest pain to get rid of. There is an episode that I did with the author of a book called the End of Food Allergy and she's a medical doctor researcher from Stanford University. And her name isn't sticking in my brain right now, but she has a protocol. And if in fact I'm sure that in the show notes, I'll put the, the, the link to that. She has a protocol where you slowly introduce micro amounts of eggs or whatever else you're allergic to on a certain schedule that seems to get rid of food allergies for most people. I haven't done it for eggs. I'd like to, I just eat turkey eggs and I'm all right. But it could be you could just.

Eat a different kind of egg.

Yeah, you probably can be duck eggs and turkey eggs and you'll be fine. It's just chicken eggs.

That's it. I'm going to the farmer's market. I'm going to get the big, big, big duck eggs.

Oh, duck eggs are better anyway. They're ridiculous. You wanna hear a ridiculous story? Like it's funny. So when we get duck eggs, we live on a farm. Like we have abundance in our food place. So one morning our son, when he was like six or something, was complaining and he's like, I don't want to, you know something about breakfast. And Lana looked at him and goes, look, some kids don't get breakfast at all. And some kids just get a bag of chips for breakfast. So you should be pretty grateful you're having, you know, whatever smoked salmon and avocado you didn't want. And he goes, you mean their mommies don't make them duck eggs and bacon in the morning? But it wasn't eggs, it was duck eggs. And I was like, oh my God, like what have I done? You know, it was so cute.

That's adorable. And you know what I mean? They don't have the perspective now, but.

Later, oh they're, they're getting it. We make em work hard. Like yeah, you have 90 minutes of farm chores every day when it's not school. So there's that, that's good. But yeah, you're gonna be very happy on duck eggs, I think. But you don't have to eat them every single day. Just give yourself a break. They say ideally a four day break for preventing thing like that. But if you are taking care of your gut lining, you should be able to eat them more often than that without an issue. Yeah, there's also some more advanced, probably injection sort of stuff that will be coming online. And there's some really weird stuff that Rashid Butar has talked about that I've heard works, but I haven't done it enough to validate it. But there's, there's some protocols involving getting IgG, the immune molecule that your body's making, actually getting it from your urine. Because after you eat something you get a huge amount of antibodies that are in urine, which is why there's all that weird Indian drink your urine stuff, which I do not, not advocate for.

But you've tried it once and it was horrible.

I'm not saying why I'm not advocating for it, but I might have read all the books about it because I was desperate to get rid of allergies years ago. And I'll just tell you, gross, don't do it. Actually maybe do it if you want to. I don't really care. But not recommended, not highly effective. But I know some people who swear by it, but not me. So anyway, there's a variety of things. But read the end of Food Allergy. I think that book is going to really open your eyes and you should interview on your show. That's why you have a show. I can hook you up afterwards if you want.

Thank you. I just wrote that down. To go get that.

And it's funny, we've interviewed a lot of the same people. Mark Hyman, JP Spears, Gary V. Gretchen. So kind of similar curious things like that. Who's the best person you've ever interviewed on your show?

I had. I think sometimes what ends up happening and maybe you can relate is sometimes it's ones that you don't expect. So it's because there's no expectation level going in. You just don't know. And so there's been a few of those. There's been some ones that are great that I'd expect to be great, like Matthew McConaughey and Neil DeGrasse Tyson and, you know, things. People like that. But then there's been some unexpected ones, like John Paul DeJoria, who started, Paul Mitchell and Patron. And then the one that comes to mind the most that I just like. And in fact, it was the same day, I think I interviewed John Paul and I interviewed Zach Bush in the same day. And I was like, like, I literally felt like I was floating. I had. It was like euphorically happy because it was such fascinating conversations. Everything from like talking aliens and integratron with John to, you know, all the, all the information about, you know, the biosphere and your, you know, everything in nature and the levels. Oh, my God, Zach Bush was. Was so cool. I feel like I could go back and listen to that over and over and still pick up nuggets. I like the experts. I really like the experts. It's selfish, but that. I mean, I love people too, but I tend to really love the experts because I am such a. I want information.

You know, I'm. I'm with you there. I, I always, I was like extras or people have done really big stuff who know how they did it. Like, that was. I want to know. It's like, what. Where was your mind? Like, oh, I'm channeling. You have lots of things you're doing. All right. The name Dr. Carrie Nadu n a D E A U is the guest I was thinking of.

Oh, for the end of the food allergies.

Yeah, that's the one.

What is it?

Carrie Nadu N a D E A U and Carrie is K A R I. So it was a really fascinating because we can turn off our food allergies and now I'm going to really piss off, like, everyone. So I did an interview a while back with Lou Reese from United States Biopharmaceuticals or bio something or another. And we talked about how you could, you could use MRNA vaccines to turn off aging and food allergies long before the pandemic. And I'm like, I don't really know. I'd like to see some proven safety whatevers. But you know, if, if that did turn out to be a kind of technology that, you know, had efficacy and proven safety record in clinical trials the way we normally do for, for our medical interventions, there probably would be an MRNA vaccine that would turn off an egg allergy like that. And one that you could custom print just for you at a doctor's office within the next five years. I think that's where we're going.

I feel like Dr. Sinclair, I interviewed Dr. Sinclair, WHO expert in anti aging and I remember him because I'm learning so I can't, I don't absorb every bit of information because it's not familiar to me. But I do remember him saying something about for aging purposes, like having injection y early and then it sits in your body essentially dormant. And then there's a sort of a trigger shot that you take later on when you want to activate it to sort of start the anti aging sort of nature of whatever it is that they'd inject. But I think it had to do with RNA mRNA, all those, you know, things that we keep hearing so much more about these days.

Yeah, we're on the cusp of some really big discoveries around that that had nothing to do with pandemics or any of that, but just fine grain control of your immune system is half of the inflammation problem of aging. And also for cognitive performance, did you ever try to race when you were feeling puffy and inflamed? Could you feel a difference in just a subtle difference because you're so tied in with your car and the world around you.

So there was one morning, I tell the story because it helps me to understand what was actually maybe more going on inside the car and where I was at brain state. I was sick. So I woke up and I slugged some dayquil and then I ate. And then before I was walking out the bus to go back to go to the garage area, I was like, whoa, I feel drunk. Like I felt drunk. And I was like, oh God, I gotta go get in a car. And I was so dizzy and I got down there and I was at Martinsville, which is the super tiny half mile flat short track. And it's like acceleration, deceleration, like lap after lap every 20 some seconds. And so I was like, holy crap. So I got in and I was so fast in that practice session and I Didn't feel anything. And so it kind of gave me maybe a little bit of an indication that our brain state, or our consciousness or dimension or whatever you want to call it, that we enter when we get into that focus space, which is maybe why earlier we talked about people with ADD or, or something that sort of distracts them. Why they feel better is because you're not you anymore. You're an elevated state of you. And I think that's what, I think that's what happens in the car. I think that's what happens in flow state, period. But I think especially in sports, it's funny.

One of the things I do in my morning goal setting that I've been learning from Barry Morgolan. I have, like, my sheet of paper up here, but there's like eight categories, and one of them is getting in the zone. Like, to be able to choose your state very rapidly and all that. And I don't have that issue anymore. Before, it's someone who's like, I'm a zombie. And, like, it's just going to take me a while. But I've just. By focusing on it and learning stuff and taking the right stuff, I, I, I just don't have a hard time. Like, okay, I need to snap into focused interview mode, and I can just do it. Whereas before, it would have been a really big challenge, but the one time where it's really rough, if, you know, the night before, I'm like, oh, I'll have, you know, a bunch of sake with my sushi and I'll stay up late under bright lights and all that. If I wake up, it still takes me like 30 minutes to get out of slug mode. And then I'll still notice. I can be in the zone. But my response time, my word recall, it's just, it's off. It's not dysfunctional, but it's not as precise as it should be. And that's an inflammation thing.

Wow, I totally have gotten that. I mean, usually I call them fragment days. Like after drinking, then the next day. It's not that you can't have a conversation. It's not that you're, you're dumber. It's just that you're not as sharp. And like, I call them fragment days because I'll start talking and then all of a sudden I'll just be like, I don't really know what I was gonna say. And so I guess maybe there's a little bit of a dumber aspect. But I definitely have had that plenty of times.

I think that's inflammation. I really truly do. And there may be some other stuff, neurotransmitters or something, but I do think that's a part of what we deal with as biohackers. And just as people want to be able to go into the zone, the one you talked about when you're driving, and to be able to go there.

With excellence, well, I'd say as biohackers, I would say that what you're also saying you are is highly attuned. So you're sensitive. So because you're paying attention by nature you're trying to hack something, you're trying to do something different, you're trying to elevate. So for you to notice it is imaginable where somebody else is having something, they don't notice it because they're not. So like, I think by nature, I think a biohacker is basically someone who's very attuned to their body and in tune with what's happening. Otherwise. How could you ever tell if something was so bluntly obvious that you should or shouldn't do something in your life? It's, it's just obvious you do it. It's what you're looking for is you're looking at the Hundred Hand theory. You're looking at. This is what my engineer told me back in my, my early IndyCar days. He's like, you stick one hand out the window and it doesn't really make a difference, but you stick a hundred hands out the window and it does. And so you guys are operating from that sort of realm of like every little thing. And so you have to be highly attuned. So it makes sense that you would notice those days where you're not quite as sharp. That's somebody's normal.

You're totally right. The other thing that I appreciate about race cars and the art of driving them is that you have to take really good care. You maintain the car like no one's business. And you put in racing fuel and all of that. If you want to treat yourself the same way around, be a high performance human, well, you're probably not going to put the 72 octane gas from Joe's Bait and Tackle into your high end race car. It's not going to work and you're going to do all the maintenance things required. Otherwise you're going to wrap it around a tree when it doesn't stick in the corner the way it should because you didn't do it right. And I feel like the human body is the same way. You Want to be the fastest? Well, you're going to have to maintain it and run it and feel it like the fastest. You, you can't be the fastest and have crappy engineering or crappy maintenance and care and pit crew and all that. And for some reason that sticks with entrepreneurs and people who traditionally be like, I don't know, I'm wealthy and I'm fat and whatever, which is how it would have been 20 years ago. And all of a sudden it sort of clicked that oh, if, if I want to be above average, I have to treat myself above average. And it feels like that's, that's just percolating where or now that's like what successful people do. But it wasn't that way even 15, 20 years ago. Have you seen a shift? Like, do you feel like more, more people who want to be successful take care of themselves first to become successful or am I just wishfully thinking?

No, I, I don't, I think it's true. I don't, I, I, I, I just think there's more awareness about it. Like we're like leaving the era of, you know, the mass production, post war assembly line, Campbell soup stuff. Like, we're just, it's like heavy, it's like going backwards. We're going back to like a local farming, we're going back to having your own garden. We're going back to like farm to table. So I, I think there's like a remembrance of the, of, of. It's just, you know, people are forgot or were distracted or you know, in industries and institutions tricked you into thinking that these things were good for you. When you're eating, essentially, there's so much food consumed that's just not real food. And you know, I think that people are realizing that what one was that like the 50s probably when we really.

Turned on TV dinners and all that sort of franken food? Yeah, that was the 50s and 60s.

So those people are all dying now. So I don't, I mean that's kind of like a morbid way to describe it. But like, and so cycles of life, it's, it's normal.

Everybody dies.

There's a new phase of people. But then there's also, you know, those people are re, you know, sort of feeling the repercussions of a lifetime of lacking awareness. I don't think it's, people don't care. There's people that act like they don't care, but everybody, everybody cares to some degree. They just don't. There's something more psychological, something more fundamental. Going on that they don't feel like they deserve it. So they don't treat themselves that well. Like there's, there's an inner, inner world, outer world situation going on. But I think in general most people care. They want to do the right thing. If you put out, if you put out a regular pizza, that's just, you know, call it whatever, just any regular pizza. And then you give, offer them on the other side, there's one that's like, like you know, paleo with, you know, vegetables on it, there's some greens, whatever, herbs. And you tell them that like this is pizza too. But it's so super healthy. Most people will go, I'll try it. Like most people want to be healthy, they just don't really know how. So I think we've entered an information age and people just know how to do it now.

Yeah, I think you're right. We, the availability of info is through the roof. So at least people are willing to be open to it.

Even just from a, from a product standpoint. Just, I mean, thanks to you and, and so many. But it's, it's just I remember when I started eating paleo back in 15, six years ago maybe and there wasn't that much stuff out there. Like you couldn't go just buy a paleo flour, you couldn't go buy a paleo, whatever. And you still have to be a good investigator to make sure that it's, it still like fits what you want. If you really, really want to be picky because there's, you know, marketing is effective but, but, but there's so many more options now. So I mean, gluten free, I mean now like, look, I love food and I am a great cook, but so I go out to eat for experiences and so a lot of times what I'll do is I'll go out and get like a tasting menu and I love that like wine pairing, tasting menu. And I used to not ask for anything different than what they served because it was just so high end and so, you know, offensive to the chef. It seemed like, but now I go in and now I, I mean no matter what meal I have, I could be going to French laundry and I tell them I want gluten free, dairy.

Free and they're totally happy to do it with ease. What a change. People used to almost want to get in fights with you if you went back 20 years ago. Like, how dare you? Like, well, I don't want to feel like crap for a day or two when I eat the food. That's going to taste great. So how dare you and all this. You know, I'm less combative these days. I just go, oh, you know, people are more understanding, too.

They're those people. They still, there's still some of them out there, but it used to be worse. But people get triggered. It's because they wouldn't do it for themselves. Like, they, they don't. They feel guilty doing. So. It's, it's. They just get triggered. It's. It, you know, when you show up in a way that they haven't showed up for themselves, it's triggering.

I love that mindset. And it's totally real because, yeah, it's about them. It's never about you. That's totally the case. Well, Danica, we went to all kinds of places. I didn't think we were going to go in this interview. And I've had so much fun. And you're way more focused and chill at the same time than I would have imagined from seeing interviews with. You're really grounded, and it's pretty cool that you can be grounded and drive 240 miles an hour or something. I'm impressed, and thank you for a fantastic interview.

Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you very much. This is really fun. I have so many questions about the hacking world, so maybe we can do this again sometime.

Absolutely. And I have a final quick question. I live up in Canada. Can I get Danica Rose up here? Because it's French. I know Canadians discriminate against American wine, but.

Well, you have to go to Quebec, but no. Aren't they France now? Didn't they want to be their own country?

I think so. They keep changing their minds.

I'd have to check, but I know that we're working on distribution everywhere, and for some reason, I think we got into Canada.

Awesome. Well, I'm going to see if I can find it because I want to give it a try. Thanks again for being on the show. And let's do it again whenever you feel up for it.

Thank you. Love it.

If you guys like this episode, there's two things you should do. One, you should leave a review. Second thing is you should check out Pretty Intense, which is Danika's podcast, because as you can tell, she knows what she's talking about and she interviews cool people. So, hey, if you're looking for more cool stuff to listen to, check it out. See you guys on the next episode. And Upgrade Collective. Thank you for tuning in on this.

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