Intuition is Not a Feeling - Joy Martina : 574

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Bulletproof Radio, a state of high performance.

You're listening to Bulletproof Radio with Dave Asprey. Today's cool fact of the day is that you can actually measure intuition. Researchers at the University of New South Wales in Australia developed a technique to measure it back in 2016. And for their study, they measured intuition as the influence of non-conscious emotional information from the body or the brain. And what they did is they used subliminal images designed to simulate the type of information that you would use in intuition. So that means emotionally charged and subconsciously perceived. And after using that method, they found evidence that people can use their intuition to make faster, more accurate, and more confident decisions. They proved that intuition does indeed exist and that they can measure it, according to Joel Pearson, the guy who led the study. Since then, other researchers have just been diving into the biological connections of intuition. They say other feelings can bring up memories encoded in an animal's or human's gut in order to aid decision-making. So you really can have a gut feeling. They found a type of helpful bacteria in the digestive system that makes serotonin. Another type makes brain-derived nootropic factor. If you read my book Headstrong, you know how important that is for having a brain. And that factor aids memory and learning by helping you form new neural connections. They also think that intuition may come from the vagus nerve, one of the longest nerves in your body, and one that you've heard about from Dr. Stephen Porges, the guy who invented polyvagal theory and is famous for studying this nerve that goes throughout the entire body. They used to think that signals on that nerve went one way from the brain to the gut, and now they just found out, oh, it goes both ways. Again, evidence for that gut feeling. And there's a whole other group of research around the gut-brain, which is a system of nerves that goes throughout the esophagus, stomach, and intestines, which is kind of awesome. So maybe there's some evidence that intuition exists. In fact, you might be practicing your intuition right now because you could be saying to yourself, "I have this strange gut feeling that Dave is going to interview someone about intuition." And if that's the case, we have proof that intuition is real. Either that or my art of foreshadowing is strong.

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Today's guest is Dr. Joy Martina. She's a psychologist who specializes in high-level intuitive intelligence training for entrepreneurs, business owners, celebrities, bestselling author, and she created something called the Crystalline Oracle training to help people develop mastery over their innate psychic abilities. She's a master hypnotist and a trainer of trainers. She calls herself a psychic psychologist. Yes, a psychic on Bulletproof Radio. Did you think I was going to do that? You didn't.

It's happened, Dave. Your reputation is now over. I'm sorry.

Joy, you knew it was going to happen, didn't you?

I did. I had that feeling.

Joy is actually a friend of mine, and I wanted to have her on the show because She knows stuff she's not supposed to know, and she does it regularly and reliably to the point that I'm not even surprised by it anymore. But I wanted to have someone on who's actually teaching other people how to develop really, really deep intuition that some people would call a psychic ability. But the idea that maybe it's possible to train your ability to just know. And I do know you can train this because we can see a brain like Joy's during neurofeedback at 40 Years of Zen. You can pick up a highly intuitive brain. You can measure it, you can quantify it, and you can predict and even train someone's brain with neurofeedback. But Joy does it without that because, well, she just knows stuff because she's listening to parts of her body that maybe you aren't listening to. So Joy, I want to pick your brain about that today.

Absolutely. I love you picking my brain. And you know, the way that I got to doing all this crazy stuff is actually because I come from a family of also hackers. So my dad is a nuclear physicist. I come from a lineage of medical doctors, so very left-brain research type people. And for me to be then the kind of the black sheep in the family, the colorful bird being all about intuition, is, you know, it's like as inappropriate as it could be. So the way that I stumbled into this was actually by looking at our brains and then going through all kinds of experiences, especially in the so-called woo-woo spiritual world, where I actually turned out really disappointed and I thought it was a whole load of BS. And I was actually the most least likely to be doing, you know, what I'm doing now of, you know, crazy things like teaching other people how to tune into their intuition and even do things like channeling. So I'm so glad to be here today and to talk about this stuff with you. Thank you.

You're very welcome. And I love it that you're like, I'm not just gonna talk about intuition. I'm just gonna talk about channeling.

That's right.

So let's go for the juicy stuff first. Channeling? Are you serious? All right, what are you channeling? What is that and how did you learn to do it?

Right? So I say that we're all channeling the whole time, but we're usually not aware of what we're channeling. And when I call it channeling, I'm reminding you of all the things you've ever been told, like especially when you were a kid, or what you're feeding your brain with. Is it, I don't know, Netflix binges? Is it, I don't know, music that is giving you suggestions about who you are and what you do and what's right and what's wrong? What I'm saying is that we—

I only I only listen to Nine Inch Nails. Is that a bad thing?

You are a wise guy because I think you are someone who's consciously looking at what you're putting in your brain and body. And I say that most of us are kind of conscious of what we put in our body, I hope, right? I think about what I eat, but few of us are really conscious about what we do with our brains and how what we put into our brains has a big effect on the quality of life. And I'll go back into beliefs we hold about ourselves, experiences we've had. I deal with people with a lot of trauma and sabotage and phobias. That's kind of my shtick, helping them over things that they think are impossible to overcome. And I can tell you that the uniqueness of the human brain is only unique insofar that we're kind of, we have different areas of where we'll gather trauma. And when we see the world through that filter or that lens of trauma, we're no longer rational. We're actually the opposite of wise. We're actually coming from pain. We're coming from, I don't know, all areas, but definitely not our wisest self. So I'd like to remind of what Albert Einstein said, and that is that intuition is the highest form of intelligence because it's about knowing, really knowing what is right for me. And I think in the time like we live right now where we have so many options, we have so many beliefs around what is right, what is wrong, what you should eat, what you shouldn't eat, what you should— I don't know. Right. So how do you know what's right for you? For you when we know that every human is so different? So that's my answer towards channeling for now.

I think you dodged the question.

You do?

I do. In fact, I'm channeling that right now.

Okay, so how I got into channeling was by pure coincidence. I had actually said goodbye to all forms of personal development workshops, any forms of spiritual trainings, any woo-woo. I was done, right? I was running my business, but I couldn't sleep. So what happened was that I needed help with my insomnia, and I needed a way to get the hell out of my stressed-out state. And I stumbled actually into a training that taught me how to do hypnosis, how to relax my brain. And then I not only met my— the love of my life, my husband now, but I also learned how when you're in a very relaxed brainwave state— so when you're in a hypnotic state, you would maybe also call it— there are ways of connecting to other forms of intelligence. So, you know, like I said, what are you channeling? Well, like, our brains are like radios. They're senders and receivers of information. And when we use our conscious mind to really focus on what is it that I am tuning into, what is it that I want to know, what are the right questions to ask— sometimes we ask real dumb questions, right? Then I can actually train my brain, my radio sender up there, to tune into information, intelligence of the universe that is not explicable to our conscious mind, but it's there, right? When you— I've hypnotized, I don't know, hundreds, I'd say even thousands of people because I lead big workshops, right? So they're all in. When we lead meditations, that's a form of hypnosis. And people will come out of states of hypnosis, of hypnosis, they'll come out of states of meditation and say crazy stuff. But that crazy stuff is, you know, always linked back to the idea that there's more out there than we can see, and there's more intelligence out there that we can tap into and make useful for our lives right now.

An example of that: I was in an exceptionally altered state from neurofeedback, doing many hours of sort of digging deep, no plant medicines involved or anything like that. And I, I kind of snapped out of this, and this was at 40 Years of Zen, and I picked up a pen and I wrote down the entire outline and table of contents for my first book, The Better Baby Book. I'd wanted to write The Bulletproof Diet before that, but it was just like my subconscious, whether you want to call it channeled or intuitive or just tapped into whatever Jungian, whatever you want to call it, I can't tell you exactly what it was, but I can say all I did is I picked up a pen and just let the words flow. I have page after page. Within 2 weeks of that, I had an agent for the first time and I launched my first book published by Wiley.

That's amazing.

It was the start of my writing career. So something happened there. I did prepare, I studied that stuff for more than 10 years. Like I knew what I was talking about, but I didn't have, it wasn't organized until I was in this altered state and some part of me knew that or some part of something else. And I still don't know.

And isn't it often true that we'll have conversations with people sometimes and then we'll have the feeling like we said something really smart and we didn't know where it actually came from. So I think many of us have had those moments where we were just tapped into something wiser, something bigger that made a big difference and made total sense in that moment, although it might have seemed totally counterintuitive. Like, wasn't it sometimes that you say the bravest things where you're thinking, oh my God, did I just say that? But it was a game changer that you did, you know, something that actually led to great success. So I think that intuitive people, if you're really tuned into your intuition, you just make better choices and you're able to make them faster because intuition is basically knowing, is it a hell yes or is it a hell no? There are no maybes. You just know, right? You may not have figured out how you're going to do what you need to do, but you've made a choice. And I think that is what makes very successful people very successful is that they have a way of making those choices really quickly and really wisely, intuitively.

Now, what you've talked about there is intuition, but not really channeling. I mean, you talk about you're channeling something like some kind of entity. It sounds like this crystalline thing. This was up with that.

Okay. So when I did this special training actually in Sweden with a lady who's now, now passed away, she died at, I don't know, 97 or something. Dolores Cannon, an amazing Swedish American hypnotist. She taught us workshop in Sweden called Quantum Hypnosis, and there she claimed to connect to the— what you just said, the subconscious mind. And it was a very, very long, difficult procedure doing this quantum hypnosis. But once she got people connected to what she said was the subconscious mind, really weird stuff started to happen in the workshop. But also the people were saying stuff that really you knew they would in a conscious awake state never be able to say. It was usually smarter than the people were, and it was usually way more confrontational than how a person would speak about themselves. Anyway, so we learned, Roy and I, my husband and I learned how to do this technique. So in the lunch break, we went up to our room and Roy put me in hypnosis, did the technique, and then suddenly Suddenly I started channeling a voice, an energy, a form of intelligence that called herself— we call her she— Krystalline. And she started turning up and not only telling us things about our lives that was kind of weird to hear in that way, but she started predicting things that at first we just write down and say, okay, let's see what happens. But not only then did those things start happening, but Suddenly information started coming through that we started sharing with our family and friends that, you know, we could never have known and that totally started flooring people. And then we started, you know, not only playing with this energy but really trusting it. And I think the final breakthrough moment for me was when I knew, okay, I not only need to be like this crazy and courageous, right? Like being on Bulletproof Radio and saying, yeah, I do channeling and yeah, it works. And yeah, it's often saved my life was the moment when in channeling, Jocelyne told us that we need to change the roof of our house here in Asheville, North Carolina. And the roof of our house was totally okay. We had a perfectly decent roof of the house, but she said, no, you need to change it to a steel hurricane-proof roof. And we were in that moment, okay, that's kind of a lot of dough. And we didn't really have that stacked away to just buy random roofs, but we trusted because we'd had so many experiences where we knew we could trust. So we did. We redecked the roof of our house. It was a huge investment and went to China, actually, to teach a workshop. And then while we were in China, my mom was here to watch the house and the dogs and our youngest daughter, Grace. And a really bad thunderstorm hit Asheville and lightning struck our house. And it struck our house so bad that the metal roof that was just finished, literally just finished, was dented at the chimney where the lightning struck. The lightning went into the house. And then created this huge fireball right in the middle of the living room, 3 feet away from my mom and our daughter, and then disappeared. And the builders afterwards told her, you know, guys, if you didn't have that steel roof, your whole house would have burned down.

Wow.

So it's moments like that that you just— I have unshakable faith in those moments when I know it's not me talking. And I think that's the big difference. And that's what I'm really really hard on is we have to know what we're channeling, what voice is speaking. Because if, I don't know, you're speaking from past pain I mentioned, or if you're speaking from, I don't know, some kind of energy you don't even know what it is, the quality of the information that you're going to get might not be that great. So I like teaching people how to connect first to their own wisdom. And we have so much wisdom in our body, right? We have a body's intelligence. We have an intelligence of the heart. We have an intelligence of the brain, an intelligence in our gut. So first it's about this system. We have to learn our own system before we can start connecting to other wacky things. That's my truth, because I've noticed that when people, especially very sensitive people, start connecting to all kinds of crazy stuff, whether it's past lives or, I don't know, other energies out there in the universe, they can lose their emotional balance and it can really put them into psychotic states. And I don't think that's healthy nor necessary.

Definitely, I'm not a fan of psychotic states as a general anti-aging technology.

Right.

So Joy, you know, I have— my grandmother is a nuclear engineer and all of my aunts and uncles on my dad's side are master's degree engineers and physicists and people like that. So I come from that same computer science and highly rational background. And I would say the whole family rejects anything that might be intuitive or energy medicine or anything like that, at least they have mostly historically. And so I didn't grow up with that stuff, but I've done shamanic training with Alberto Villoldo, who's a dear friend who's been on the show a couple of times and a Westerner who went to the jungle to find drugs for big drug companies and came back 20 years later a shaman. And I've just seen too much weird stuff to be completely like, you know, there's nothing unseen. And I know people like you who routinely see things that aren't necessarily there to the average person, but I've had dozens of instances where people who don't know each other both see the same thing. And there's whole schools of— I don't know what to call them— schools of energy medicine, spiritual stuff, where they've gone out and scientifically said double-blind style, like, "Hey, I want 10 people to do the same breathing technique and then report what they see." and they see the same things reliably and talk to the same weird energy things and all. But the vast majority of people listening to the show either haven't experienced something like that, or if they have, they either thought they were crazy or they just didn't even notice. Like, you just tune it out because you learn in the process of becoming an adult that there's a whole bunch of garbage noise out there, and if you pay attention to it, parents will yell at you or like you don't function in society. And how would someone listening to the show who maybe isn't so comfortable with this idea that, oh, you have intuition, it's real, or you can channel ideas or things, hear voices in your head that are trustworthy, how would they go about knowing what is a gut feeling versus a fear, or what is channeling versus worrying or just self-deception?

I love that question because I think the The voices that we're trained to, unfortunately, especially as adults, to listen to most are the voices of the mind. And if you listen to the mind, if you actually make the effort of writing down what your mind is telling you or talking the whole time, you will see how insane the mind is. So if we follow just the thoughts that we randomly have throughout a day, we will see that our mind is all over the place and it will change its opinion at any given moment. So imagine that, I don't know, you have the idea that you should call Aunt Betsy because a part of you feels guilty that you haven't called Aunt Betsy for ages. Then you call Aunt Betsy, you go through the whole conflict. Should I? Should I not? Oh, she's such a pain. But oh yeah, I should, blah, blah, blah, blah. Then you call Aunt Betsy. The conversation goes as usual. She complains. You put down the phone. You think, oh my God, why did I do it? Right? You'll see that in just that course of that conversation in your mind, how insane and how unreliable the mind is. But we think that's where the biggest, I don't know, wisdom lies. So Einstein, I'll quote him, says, "The intuitive mind is the sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant." And we've created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. So, you know how you said you have that gut feeling? Well, we actually have 3 brains in the body. We have the head brain, we have the heart brain, and we have the gut brain. And when we learn to fire those brains in the right sequence, we will find that we'll already become more intuitive, more tuned in. We'll be able to make wiser decisions because we should have our heart lead, which means our heart will always come from joy. Our heart will always come from pleasure. Our heart doesn't really feel the fear. The fear is usually coming from the head brain, from past experiences, from the amygdala. So when we first go to the heart and say we have a decision to make, like, should I marry the guy or should I not, then I should first go to my heart and say, how does my heart feel about this? Does my heart say, oh my God, yeah, I love him so much, I need this? Or is the heart already going, I don't know whether this is such a good idea? So that's the first decision that we make is a yes or no here. Then we can go to our head and say, okay, if I know that maybe it's a yes, then brain, give me the strategies. That's what the brain is good at doing is coming up with different solutions, creative ways of finding, you know, a pathway to your dreams. After you have found that strategy that the brain has given you, you go back into your heart and you say, "Okay, heart, is this the best way to get to my goal?" And then the heart might say, "No, you know what? It's not ethically right. It's not moral. You'll need to go back and find another strategy." And you do that conversation until you find a solution that feels feels good in your body. So I think most of us have unfortunately lost that connection to our own bodies. We sometimes make our bodies just do whatever it needs to do. We see it as a machine, but we've forgotten that our body has its own wisdom too. And I go into that in my whole Sleep Your Fat Away program where I actually teach people how to get into their healthy shape by training their brain, by, you know, having healthy thoughts, by de-stressing the body. So there's so much that we can do to really get into that flow and balance so that once we know what we need to do, we go to our gut brain and say, "Okay, now give me the courage. Now kick my butt. Now make me do it." But sometimes when we're wrongly wired, we'll go like from our heart straight to our gut. We'll be so impulsive, we won't even think through strategies. I used to be like that. You know, I'd feel it here, it's right, and bam, say it or do it. But that can cause havoc. But when we learn to in between go to the brain and say, okay, give me the right strategies, we'll fire right. Other people can get stuck in their minds, right? If we think that the brain, the head is the thing that we should always listen to, we can just stay up here, never get things done. So I think that's number one. And the biggest step that I think we all need to make is to make more time for ourselves in silence. In solitude. We need to step out of the buzz. I think we've become so wired to constantly be on the go, to always be entertained. We're so distracted that our minds never get to settle. And that's why that's the first step that I teach anybody who works with me is you need to get control over your mind and not think that your emotions are your intuition. Because I think that's another mistake we make. We think, well, I am, I'm feeling emotional, so that's my truth. That's your emotional truth, but that's not your wisest self. Does that make sense?

It makes sense. And I have that line very clearly demarcated in part because of a bunch of personal development work, but also the 4 months of neurofeedback training where you sort of, you can, you get a sound that tells you whether it's an emotion or some other state. So I just find that when I'm dealing even with people who run companies with hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue, people who are well known, when I sit down with them and they're doing the deep personal work guided with neurofeedback, they don't have that line. Like, they're highly functioning people, but they don't know the difference between intuition. They're in a boardroom and, you know, they feel an emotion like, all right, All right, enough of that. I'm going to go do this and blow things up left and right. Not that I'm incapable of that, but I like to think I've got better control systems than I used to. So you can sit there and say, yeah, you have these emotions and you have this other stuff, but I mean, if you're listening to this—

How do I do something about it?

And you're saying, I don't know what that is. How do you feel it for the first time?

That intuition, that knowing?

Yeah. Knowing that it's an emotion versus intuition. For me, as an engineering guy, everything below the neck is garbage. There's all these weird emotions. They're always a pain in the ass and they're mostly pain and anger and stuff. So you just ignore all that stuff and do what you're supposed to do. And how do you get a signal out of the noise the first time?

Okay, good. So let's decipher then the word emotion. Because emotion literally means it's an energy in motion in the body. So, and we can measure these emotions, right? I'm sure you know that, right? We can measure what is it doing. We can also measure what is it doing to certain organs in the body. So we know that a frequency, an emotion like anger goes on your liver. You will be able to measure that frequency, that stress in the liver when you're feeling a lot of anger. There's a reason why a lot of really angry people love a lot of alcohol because it numbs that anger. We know that the emotion of sadness, for instance, really stresses the lungs. Then we see these correlations in, in Chinese medicine, in holistic medicine, but I think we haven't understood them as humans because we've been basically told that emotions are— especially if they're negative emotions like anger or fear— that we best not have them, right? Just override them, like you said. So that can become a program that to just override or suppress emotions and then maybe even think that you're supposed to be happy and joyful and, I don't know, on an upscale the whole time, which will create a lot of conflict. So that's what I see in, in my clients, is that when we've been trained to override emotions, to just suppress them, it'll go back into our bodies and create conflict there. And when we are able to just step into a peaceful state So I think intuition is suddenly finding peace in just knowing. You no longer have the confusion. You know, you might not know, you know, okay, what do I do with this information? Like, say you get a no, you should not marry this guy. You might feel stressed about, oh my God, what do I need to do now about, you know, to make that happen that I can get out of this again? But the moment we make a decision that is right, we will find a certain element element of peace and a conflict that has just finally come to an end. But I think intuition usually, and this is the tricky thing, proves itself in retrospect. It's like, who was he, the Apple guy?

Steve Jobs.

There you go. In his beautiful speech at a college said, you can only reconnect the dots in hindsight. And that's why we need to find an element of peace and that's the stepping out of the buzz element, to be able to access intuition. So intuition can kick in in high-stress moments, and there's a lot of research on this, like the Formula One driver who actually saved his own life by an intuitive choice on just before a hairpin needle, you know, curve in a race to slam his foot on the brake. Although he could have in no way known that there was a pileup just around the corner, I write about this in my book. These intuitive choices will usually save your life and you will afterwards know, oh my goodness, that's why I didn't want to get on the plane. That's why I said no to marrying that guy. That's why— I don't know. It's that. And that, I think, is the problem that we might not like in our rational minds, that we will often have no proof upfront that this is going to be worth it, but we will know it in our bodies. So we'll feel it usually rather than seeing it. You know, so, you know, I think I've noticed that so many of us will focus on thinking that extrasensory skills, psychic skills and all that is connected to, oh, she sees things or he just knows things. But, you know, when I look at how our brain works, we just have different filters and we have different ways of gathering and sensing information. So we have an auditory channel, we have a kinesthetic channel, We have a visual channel. We have many different channels that gather information, but some of us can get so stuck on, oh, I've got to see it before I believe it. But if we learn to tune into our bodies, if we take time to just focus on our breath, accept silence for a few minutes every day, then we can actually sense more things and become more sensitive, but in a good way, rather than I don't know, being such an empath that we suffer with everyone around us or no longer know the difference between our own emotions or the projections of other people's emotions.

Have you ever had a time when you had a real strong intuition and it was just totally wrong?

Yes. And I wouldn't call it intuition then. I had a strong feeling that I need to do something.

Change the definition in retrospect.

I got it. That is, I think, the biggest biggest difference. Intuition is not a feeling. If you, if you just trust the feelings in your body, you might be caught off guard and make a wrong choice. You need to create neutrality first. You need to find a way of stepping out of that buzz and saying, okay, what's true here? And I share many, many different ways of how to do that. And, you know, if we're on a video, it's, it's this karate chop. So when we link our left and our right brain hemispheres by literally just punching our fists into the open hands and, you know, and alternating, we are making our brain talk to each other again, to itself, right? Because sometimes we can just function from a left brain and then we're not coming from a whole brain. So just doing kinesiology movements like this switch, I call it, will help you release the emotions and step into that neutrality.

So you've had a time where you thought it was an intuition, but it was a feeling and then it was wrong. And I think that's where someone who's working to develop intuition can get stuck because then you feel discouraged and you say no. And certainly intuition plays a role in the venture capital world. And there's been pretty good interviews, like structured interviews of VCs, and the ones who are most successful, they rely on thinking, like they look at the numbers, and they rely on their gut. And the ones who the data matches and the intuition matches, they do the deals. It's really big. The ones where the intuition matches and the data doesn't, they oftentimes don't succeed. And the ones who are only data and no intuition, they don't succeed as much, just quantitatively, which is fascinating. And that's been my experience in business as well. Like there's times when you're like, yep, this is the right one. And you just know. And then you find some data that does that. And it does require a certain degree of self-trust that is learned.

Absolutely.

You actually wrote a book called How to Use Intuition to Change Your Life, and you said something interesting. You said, we've all heard of women's intuition. What we need to talk more about is men's intuition, human intuition. Intuition is a form of intelligence. So what is women's intuition and what is men's intuition and what is the difference?

Well, I think women have often an easier time to tune into their intuition because they're allowed to develop a wide spectrum of feelings first. So they are sometimes more sensitive or attuned to those different frequencies of, you know, what does sadness feel like in comparison to grief. And so we have a— maybe, you know, this is sweeping statements, but maybe women, we can say we have a broader spectrum of feelings and usually a higher intensity for those feelings. So our brains are trained to be more sensory acute and on the other side, men are usually not trained or brought up in a way to be particularly aware of their emotions. And if you ask them how they feel, they'll usually, I don't know, give you about a spectrum of 5 at most. So in, in the way that we're conditioned socially, I think we make a big distinction in how we raise boys and girls and have done so for hundreds and even 5,000 years if we're following that, right? So I think because of that, as, as women, we sometimes have more more space to tap into those fine differences in, for instance, reading a room. Women usually have more acute social awareness than men do, but that's also because of how our brains work, because men usually have more the focused tunnel vision of, I need to get the job done, but do not multitask, right? Women can usually do many different things at the same time, listen to the baby, stir the pot, be on the phone, I don't know, even drive a car while we're doing all these things, right? And for guys, it's usually one step at a time. That's, that's where it's best. So our brains are different. That might make that also, you know, when you look at the brain hemispheres, so the left and the right brain, we usually associate the right brain more with the feminine brain. So the creative brain, more like the Wi-Fi, the connection to the universe, to all these intelligences. And then we have the left brain that is the more rational brain. The more masculine brain that is more logical in its structure. So I think often we might devote a lot of attention to, oh, I'm so left-brained and that's great and celebrate that. And then maybe we have to develop more right-brain skills and vice versa. But I think if only we were in education to really train the whole brain, we would just make way more out of our potential and just also learn quicker. So I think that the difference is maybe at the beginning, but once guys start trusting their entire brain, once guys start tuning into what's happening in their bodies, start just becoming aware of emotions, you don't need to indulge in them, but just become aware of them, then emotions actually become great sensors to show you, am I in tune or am I off tune? Am I off balance? Because if I am feeling stressed and worried and angry and whatever, I am not tuned into my highest self. I am not tuned into my intuition. I'm tuned into emotion. So the first step is just noticing that. And once we notice that, I think the next step of tuning into what is right for me is just simply by taking the time and asking intelligent questions like, what is the right thing for me to do right now? What is the wisest choice? And then, as you say, gather the information and then intuitively feel Well, it's that one.

So you think men can develop the same level or same kind of intuition?

Absolutely.

Okay.

Absolutely. And you know, if you look at famous people who score really high on the intuitive scale, according to Myers-Briggs, which is a very old way of testing people's skills and talents and knowing where to put them in the workplace, you'll find people like Barack Obama, Elon Musk. So high-functioning CEOs and owners of companies who are very intuitive. Intuitive in their decision-making. So it's not a woo-woo skill. It really is a form of intelligence. And it's not gender-specific.

Now, different people have different skills. Like the people who are really good at math, their brains are wired to be good at math. And I'm talking like the world's best mathematicians and chess players. You can measure a difference in their brains. And if someone with a brain that is a different style of brain, Like, you can take a painter, someone who's a gifted artist, and say, you know what, we're going to teach you to be the world's best mathematician. You can probably become a really good mathematician, but you probably won't be the world's best because you just don't have the, the hardware for that. And so I, I will reject the idea— in the Constitution says all men are created equal, and I would say all humans are not created equal, because sometimes you're taller than another one and you might be better at basketball like we're just gonna have to play some odds there, right?

I totally agree with you on that.

Now, I'm going somewhere with that though that might not be something that you wanna answer, but I interviewed Shanoa Maxwell, who's an actress and a Native American shamanically trained woman. And I asked some of the things that you do with your shamanic training, can anyone do this or is this something that comes from your lineage from your people? And she kind of looked a little embarrassed and she said, said it comes from my lineage. And so how much of your intuitive ability becomes from your lineage, whether you want to talk about your genetic lineage, whether you want to talk about it coming from the way you came into the world epigenetically, whether you want to talk about because you're a woman versus a man, because you had past lives or whatever that counts. How much of this is because you have special powers because you're you versus because you're a standard human and everyone else can do what you can do?

I say we are all intuitive, and what I can do at a basic level, every single person on this planet can do. I am not special there. I think the only thing that makes me in that way maybe special is that I have trained myself to, to do what I'm doing at a level that maybe is just unique because it's so fascinated me. Because I, you know, coming from this very scientific background, And I thought exactly what you're saying. I thought, well, all these people who have all these powers, they're just gifted. They're just born with it. And there's no way that I'll ever achieve that. And it was not necessarily a goal of mine either. So when it happened to me, I thought, holy moly, how did this happen? And I realized, no, it's just a way of how the brain works. When our brain is relaxed, it's usually smarter. And when our brain is able to focus and have— when we have control over our mind rather than our mind having control over us. Us, then we're actually able to train potential in ourselves. That really depends on what, what we want to know. And I'm just a really curious person, and I want to know connections. I want to understand why. So it actually led me to that way of wanting to understand why things are happening to me, understand how I can prepare better, how I can make wiser choices. That has, you know, brought me to that, um, idea and that belief. And I will stand behind that, that anybody can train their intuition. And we actually, if we were to help our kids keep their connection to the intuition, we'd save so much trouble later having to reconnect to it because it's what our brain would normally do, what our systems would do if only we'd let them.

Now, you said you're not anyone special and all of that. Now, I'm a pretty good judge of which people are special and unusual just by virtue of doing Bulletproof. I've had a chance to meet some really special people. And some people who are really working on being special but probably aren't going to get there. And I don't know if it's because they don't have it or they just have too much trauma or whatever the heck, but the people who are sensitive to that sort of stuff generally know that. And the ones I know who know you all say that you're special. So what evidence do you have that you're not special and therefore everyone can be as intuitive as you? You?

Well, there you're speaking to the skeptic in me, and I love that. It's numbers. I didn't think when I started this wacko journey of training others how to hone their intuition, how to release past stuff and all that, 8 years ago when I started out on the journey of really just doing that, I would never have believed that I'm doing what I am doing now and that I would have done that to thousands of people, right? So I— if it was something that was just something that I could do, then yeah, maybe that would be right. But if I can then teach it to a small group of people, then to a bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger group of people that are coming from so many different walks of life, is proving my theory that it's not something special. That, you know, if a housewife from Venice, a CEO from Beijing, um, the pathologist theist from Belgium, if they can all do it just by, you know, finding different ways of training it. You see, when I, when I train people in their intuition in doing what I do, I use all the different alleys of how I learned to do it and how I saw that it works. So I, you know, we do embodiment, we do past life regressions, we do hypnosis, we do NLP, anything that gets the brain in the right space. Um, and that I think is the secret to success, and proves my theory that we can all do this if only we're curious, if we want to, and if we then find the ways and the tools so that we can do it ourselves. I am not into creating the Joy Matina cult. I want people to find their own truth, not my truth, but their truth. And I think that's what intuition actually is, is finding your truth.

It reminds me, many years ago, I did this 3-day Dave Asprey intensive Chinese energy medicine program at a hotel they've since torn down in Palo Alto. This guy, I'm blanking on his name right now, anyway, he said, "Look, I'm 28th generation in my family. We've been doing this for a long time and it doesn't require special powers. It's just a technique that no one would talk about, so I just decided I would teach everyone." super woo-woo stuff and you vibrate your energy and you do all this stuff. And he was highly intuitive and could pick stuff up and it was fascinating stuff. But his message there was, "I'm nothing special. This is a learnable skill. It's a teachable skill." And it was and it is. And there's all sorts of stuff out there when you're tuned into certain parts of your body that I think most people are capable of. But I also know there are some people who are exceptionally capable of that. And I know when we see their brains at 40 years of Zen, like, oh, Oh, you've got one of those special brains and we're going to treat your brain differently because it has capabilities. It's like a computer with a faster graphics processor. You can do that and a normal person might be able to, but it's going to take them 3 times as long kind of a thing, which is cool.

I think it depends how much you want things, right? Isn't that right?

That's true.

That's a part of it.

How much of a desire there is. If you're uninterested, you're not going to do it. Okay, fair point. You talk about— you actually wrote another book called Brain Hack: Simple Techniques to Change Your Brain State and Frame of Mind. You talk about something called the switch, and you demoed it earlier. Not everyone is going to be watching on video. What you did is you basically opened one palm and you took the other hand and sort of karate chopped inside the palm a bit, and then you opened the other hand and you did the same thing, just two chops per hand, relatively light, just taps, not like breaking a board sort of thing.

As quickly as you can, actually, because what you want to do is you want to get the conscious mind, so that rational part of you, out of the way. You want that mind chatter to stop. And you see, because our conscious mind only has a processing power of 126 pieces of information per second, 126 bits, which is not much, yeah, um, we can easily distract it. And that's what we actually want to do. So I teach all these ways how you can get your conscious mind, that annoying monkey chatter, to just silence, to step out of the way so we can start actually training and talking to our unconscious mind. That's part of the work that I do. And when we have to alternate the fists between the palms of our hands by doing this karate chop, we're keeping our conscious mind pretty busy. And you'll see, or I've noticed, that especially older people can sometimes have a real hard time doing this because their coordination between the left and the right brain hemisphere is no longer that good. Kids usually pick this up real quick. So I teach this to 2, 3-year-olds, preschool, when I teach emotional balance because it's so helpful to be able to have tools to really step out of emotional states very quickly. So my forte or my passion is to help people overcome depression and anxiety. And I'm really alarmed at seeing how many young people are suffering from anxiety attacks and panic attacks. And just doing the switch is a great way of of connecting back to yourself again. So when you do the switch, you're syncing your left and your right brain hemisphere. You're getting control of your conscious mind. You can focus on your breath. You usually, if you do this for quite a while, you're burning calories like crazy. You're boosting your metabolism, and you can then use it to actually get affirmations into your brain. So you know how we have affirmations and we can say like, oh, I'm so happy. Oh, I'm so, I don't successful, but we don't mean it, right? Does nothing to our unconscious mind because our unconscious mind says, yeah, right. But when you're doing the switch and you say, you know what, I love and accept myself even if I'm feeling sad right now, and I love and accept myself when I choose to feel happy, you are giving a command to your unconscious mind. And that is all about the brain training that I'm talking about. You know, we need to learn how we can influence our mind in the right Dave Asprey by saying, "No, no, no, no. It's okay to feel sad. I'm not suppressing it. But now I'm choosing to feel happy." And just do the switch. So try it out. And even if you say nothing, you'll change your focus, you'll shift your state, which is 85% of what you need to change, you know, your psychology towards success and more happiness is to step out of that negativity.

So this is sort of a kissing cousin to tapping. And Dawson Church has been on, Bruce Lipton Dave Asprey and a couple of other experts on tapping.

That's right. I love tapping.

Alex has been on, one of the guys who's the biggest names behind it. So you're activating some stuff in the brain that's unconscious. When would someone want to try this hack they call the switch? So like you're in a meeting and you're going to suddenly start karate chopping yourself?

Yeah, well, you know, the best place is— I've never seen you do that. I'm relentless. I do actually do it everywhere because I don't care anymore about things like that. But here's the good thing. There's always a bathroom nearby. There's always a little corner that you can go and just, you know, take a few deep breaths, do your karate chop, and then accept whatever is. I think we spend so much time resisting what is, right? So let's say you've got a meeting and you're feeling really stressed out about it for whatever reason. Then just say, "I love and accept myself even if I feel stressed." and I love and accept myself when I now choose to feel relaxed, to feel happy. So you always accept what is and then state the state you want to be in. That's if you want to be the excellent student and really get this 100% right. If you just remember to do the karate chop and take a few deep breaths, you'll already be doing good for your body because you're de-stressing and you're giving your brain a chance to relax and tune in into the first step of intuition, which is to feel yourself, to be aware of what's going on.

Okay. So that's one way. And you're saying when people do the switch and they take a deep breath and chill a little bit, it's easier to have intuition.

You are taking the first step for sure of noticing.

What's the second one?

The second one is really to learn to say no.

Oh, that's the first law in Game Changers.

Really?

That's right.

Learn the power of no.

Absolutely.

And I've learned it's learning to say no gracefully. That took me a while. It took me a while to learn how to say no. And then, once I mastered the no, I said it in such an awful bitchy way that it really didn't land very well. So, I discovered when we learn to say no gracefully, it's a game changer.

I was going to say, no, like that, the people I learned that from are venture capitalists. When I got to work at Eternity Ventures as an entrepreneur in residence before I started Bulletproof, these guys hear 100 pitches a day on companies and they invest in I was in like less than 1% of those. So they say no all the time to hopeful entrepreneurs without crushing their spirits. Because if you say no to, you know, the guys who start the next multi-billion-dollar company and you're rude about it, like they will never talk to you again. And so that art of saying no nicely, I watched it in action. I was like, wow, I'm really bad at this. And I think I, I like to think I got better at it. Like you.

And it's trainable, right? Do you agree? Is that trainable?

It's absolutely trainable. Actually, no, it's absolutely not. Anyone who thinks it is is a bad person. How'd I do?

Which takes me to point 3.

Yeah, what's point 3? That was my next question.

That is learning how to forgive and release and doing that joyfully and not buying into this myth that forgiving and releasing has to be this painful procedure that takes decades. It's just not true. We all are release machines if we want to be, but we have to just get it. And there's simple ways how to do that. And I also share that Beautiful.

Forgiveness is a core part of what we teach with neurofeedback at 40 Years of Zen. And you also have some brain trainings that you do that are based on binaural beats, hypnotic suggestions, neuro-linguistic programming. And these are— if you're listening to this, you've never heard of those— these are technologies that have been around for a long time. When I first got into biohacking and changing the brain 20 years ago, I've created my own sounds for binaural beats. We've had Bill Harris, who unfortunately passed away. In fact, I actually dedicated Game Changers to him. He passed away, one of the guys who's like one of the godfathers of binaural beats and related technologies called Hemi— oh geez, we called it Hemi-Sync or Hemi-Coherence, one of the two. And so like this stuff has a long history and I've seen Bill's brainwaves. You know, printed out on paper from EEG, and oh my God, that guy had a very different brain than the rest of us after 40 years of using his own tech and all. So I know you can change the brain with sounds because we can measure it very easily anywhere that you can measure brainwaves. So you use this stuff in your brain training. How do you stack up binaural beats and all this other stuff, and what are the effects that you're seeking from that?

Well, what I think is the most powerful way of doing brain training is by using the sleep time. So this nightly sleeping hours to train our brains, because our unconscious mind is never asleep. While our conscious mind is asleep during the night, our conscious mind is actually really active and always like a sponge. So I love using brain trainings at night, having them on at a barely audible level, of course on a device that is on airplane mode. And by having it on at a barely audible level and having it on loop. I've had amazing results, not only for myself, but also, you know, my daughter Grace, for stuff she has to learn at school—timestables—but also people wanting to lose weight, step into their confidence. Any training at night is so effortless because you literally just sleep with it, and your unconscious mind receives all the messages. And over time—and this is important—over the course of the best is 90 days, because that's what it takes weeks to really create those new neural pathways in the brain. After 90 days, you literally notice the difference because your habits start changing and your awareness for self starts changing. And people just come back with the most amazing feedback of saying, you know, it's crazy, but this shit really works because I'm no longer doing this stuff and I don't really know why. So I think using nightly sleeping hours is the easiest way. And the second way is to really take power And I know this is usually the hardest thing for people to hear, but if you take either 20 minutes throughout the day just to listen to an audio, a guided meditation, or stillness if you can handle it, you will have an increase in energy levels, in focus, and in peace of mind like never before. And this is not just me saying it. I mean, you know it yourself. Research is proving this, and our levels of efficiency just go up. And I like to be efficient.

One of the most impressive stories of that is Winston Churchill. During the war, in the middle of the day, he would literally change into a nightgown and like take a full-on nap. And people would say, "How dare you? Don't you know there's a war on? How can you take a nap?" And he just looked at them and say, "Yes, there's a war on. That's why I'm taking a nap because I don't know how to be prime minister without taking a nap." I did not know that.

Thank you for sharing that story. It reminds me of that saying, you know, you've got to meditate every day for 1 hour unless you're really busy, then you need to do it for 2 hours. And I used to think that's just the most stupid joke ever, right? Because, you know, I used to buy into that. I find it really hard to meditate and make time for that. But then I realized that meditation actually creates time. It seems counterintuitive, like intuition often does, right? But meditation or taking a chill out, a timeout, is really the best way of actually making time for yourself?

Before I had kids, I bought into this myth that the most effective people wake up at 5 in the morning. So I decided I'm going to become an early riser even though I've never liked that and basically that's just not natural for me. For 2 years, I would wake up at 5 in the morning no matter how little I slept and I would have a cup of coffee and I'd meditate for an hour, like full-on deep meditating, breath exercises, chanting, like the whole nine yards. And I could definitely replace 2 hours of sleep with an hour of meditation. Just unquestionably, you can do that. And many meditative or meditation masters will tell you that. And so I did that for 2 years, then I had kids and realized that, you know, they sense when you wake up anyway. So if you wake up at 5, they'll wake up at 5. You wake up at 7, they'll wake up at 7. 7, and you're not going to meditate anyway. So I also figured out circadian rhythm, and it turns out what you do in the morning first thing is really important. But first thing in the morning for you might be different than 5:00 AM, and there is no moral superiority to waking up at any time.

No, and it doesn't have to be 1 hour. You know, just, I mean, sometimes we will make it so insurmountable for ourselves. Just do 10 minutes, do 20 minutes. You can do that.

Yeah, you absolutely can. Now, you talked about sleeping, listening to neuro-linguistic programming and the binaural beats and all that you've put into your brain trainings for weight loss. Now, when I was fat, I was desperate and I tried everything you can do to lose weight, including a bunch of different "you can lose weight" audio cassettes, CDs. This was before you could get MP3s. I remember my first MP3, yes, it was a Metallica album, which made which makes me very happy, in 1996 before MP3s were cool. It didn't work. Well, if you know the history of Metallica and Napster, I just pissed off Metallica. Sorry, Lars. I love you guys, but I did download your album illegally many, many years ago. Anyway, I digress because you couldn't get any of this stuff in an electronic format, so it was kind of inconvenient. But I never lost a pound from any weight loss CD, DVD, cassette tape, download? How could mine work?

Seriously? Seriously. Come on, Joy.

Do you have any like data, any studies? Are these like people, "I went on a diet and I listened to the CD.

It must have been the CD." I do actually have data on this. Actually, different data. One data which actually had me sold, why I even started creating a weight loss program, which is kind of the most insane thing to want to do in a market that is so oversaturated. Was because I was doing this training with a famous, actually British hypnotist called Sheila Granger, who was doing a study with the National Health System in the UK on testing the virtual gastric band. So a hypnosis practice, how to install a virtual gastric band in people versus the real gastric band operation, which is— I'm sure you know that— where you take the stomach and you create a little pouch at the top so that your stomach stomach size literally shrinks and you can't eat that much. And that gastric band operation is often offered for people suffering from obesity, and it's kind of the final measure to help people eat less. And so they were testing the real operation versus the hypnotic operation and found out that the, um, virtual gastric band was not only more successful over the long run in weight loss, but also you have no side effects. And it was way cheaper. And people who could maybe not afford the real gastric band operation or were not well enough to have it could have the virtual gastric band operation and were losing weight and actually changing lifestyle patterns. Because what happens when you literally can't eat that much is you eat less and you usually eat slower because with a virtual gastric band or a real gastric band, if you eat very quickly, you'll start feeling nauseous. So For Sleep Your Fat Away, I did not only use just affirmations or just NLP or just hypnosis or just one track, because I know and I agree with you, that doesn't work. So my aim with the, with Sleep Your Fat Away was to create a holistic brain training program that does work. And it's like that, I see it as the missing piece of whatever else good you're doing. So just that without a dietary change, yeah, is only going to get you a part of of the success. But having the brain piece in, in place together with, you know, the motivation— I actually want to make this happen, I do want to look at my diet, I do want to sleep well— you know, you've got to have the other pieces as well—

is okay. So, so you're, you're reducing sabotage and increasing motivation and willpower to do something else that's also a part of the weight loss. That passes my sniff test because the people are like, oh, Listen to this and you'll magically lose weight. Like, I've just never seen anything like that work.

It takes 90 days because you're creating new habits. And yeah, it consists of brain training audios, a sleep program, and I give you tools to de-stress before every meal. And that's another simple tapping exercise, actually, where you tap your Cupid's bow. Did you know that's called the area above your lip and below the tip of your nose?

So that dent? Like right where your Hitler's mustache would be.

That is also a way of saying it, yeah. Right there.

I don't know how else to describe that when people are listening. I love it. I'm clearly not a Hitler fan or anything like that. He's a bad man and did bad things, but like wherever that thing is right under your, between your nostrils, above your upper lip. Anyway, everyone knew what I said when I, what I meant when I said it, but.

This point is a very powerful acupressure point connected to the governor's vessel. And it's like, a switch button to de-stress. So here's a tip. When you tap this point before you eat, you are de-stressing the body, which helps the body digest better. Because when we eat in very emotional states, or if we eat in very stressed-out states, the body is really busy coping with all that stress and doesn't have enough energy left for the stomach, which means we'll usually overeat because our stomachs will not be able to send the message to the brain like you're eating too fast, you've had enough, right? And we'll usually eat in, you know, all that emotional stuff will usually cause digestion and a poor, you know, poor digestion in general. So tapping that point before you eat will already create change. Try it out. That's for free.

That's one of those things where it's okay to be really skeptical about it, but the odds of causing harm to yourself by tapping your upper lip right in the middle there. You're probably not taking on a high degree of risk there. I agree. And I can't vouch for that or not, but I do know that tapping's remarkably effective for a lot of people. All right, now we've been talking about relatively boring and straightforward and well-understood things so far, but you actually, you actually talk about oracle training and angel meditations. So in case we weren't a little bit the reservation enough. What the heck is an oracle training and an angel meditation? Come on, just like lay it out there.

Okay, an oracle training is, it's a 4-module training that I am actually completing this month, um, that I have been live streaming all over the world. Imagine that, in 3 different languages. It teaches people how to tune into their intuition big time. So not only their body's intuition, not only their higher selves, that kind of wisdom, but literally, yeah, are angels, people who have passed away, intelligence is coming from, I don't know, Nikola Tesla, Albert Einstein. We've had people channel alien entities, all kinds of crazy things, which I would say, how I make it understandable, are just different frequencies. It's just different forms of intelligence. And the, the remarkable thing is that, you know, people who are seemingly extremely sane like engineers and physicists and medical doctors have been part of my training. As I've said, you know, the crazy stuff is that by learning how to be more sensory aware of what's going on, having trained your brain to tune into different frequencies and decipher what is just an ego decision, what is an emotional decision, and what is like a wisdom that's coming from somewhere else, has actually helped them make more money, become healthier, make wiser decisions in their relationships. And that, that just proves that all this woo-woo sounding stuff is actually nothing more than knowing how to use this amazing brain in a new way. So I think it's more woo-woo than it— it sounds more woo-woo than it is, and it's more about training our intelligence than necessarily wanting to channel angels. That said, what is remarkable about angel meditations, or say the frequencies of angels, of things that we maybe not have an explanation for, but that usually feel really good in our bodies and create positive changes in our lives, is that they're so easy to tune into with the power of our intention. I don't think that we realize as humans how powerful the power of our intention is, how much life changes when I'm more mindful with what I do, and everything that I do is a conscious choice. I think we spend so much time actually out of our bodies in a totally mindless state. So when people come to me and say, oh my God, I'm so scared of out-of-body experiences, or that sounds so woo-woo, I tell them usually, well, honestly, I think you're having an out-of-body experience most of the time because where are you with your mind? Be honest. Where are you when you're driving your car? Where are you when you're doing some mindless activity? You're usually all over the place. So I think we're way more connected to information— let's put it in a neutral way— than we know we are. And the Oracle Training trains you to become aware of what information you're tuned into, what is helpful, what is not, and how can you make use of your brain. Is, you know, tuning— like you were saying, you were mentioning something that I call automatic writing. You tune into something, and suddenly it flows through you, and you just write, and you write, and you write. You know, most authors will describe that as the way of them creating their book, right? That's how I write.

Yeah. Bam.

That's how all my books are written. Scientists— Thomas Edison, Nikola Tesla— brilliant engineers and inventors will always, when you read their biographies, when you look at the research about them, will usually tell you that in moments of inspiration, suddenly it came through them. Well, where was that coming from? And in the Oracle training, you can actually learn to know where it's coming from by different methods— automatic writing, remote viewing. There's so many different psychic skills, and I've put together training that is, I think, the most holistic training in these psychic skills that there is on this planet. I'm going to be that bold.

All right, I would have liked to say that Dave Asprey did your whole training in preparation for the interview, but I did not. I will actually check it out because it's fun. If you look at Napoleon Hill's work, Think and Grow Rich, one of the first modern personal development things, he has this whole idea of creating a council of mind or something, but basically recruit the most famous people you admire in all of history and have a board of directors meeting with them in your mind in a meditation. Meditative state and see what they tell you. And, you know, that idea of kind of connecting to whatever energy was in someone's thing, it's a technique. And whether you're actually connected to that or it's all in your head, it doesn't really matter if you're getting the results you want, which is pretty cool about that. Whether there's actually angels or whether the idea of an angel did something weird to your brain, who the heck can prove any of that stuff?

Does it help you? Is the question. Yeah.

And to assume that we know that something does or doesn't exist, and we can prove with logic tables, you can't prove something doesn't exist. You can also say that's highly unlikely, but you can also say, I use this technique and I don't really know why it works, but if I got the results I wanted, I'm just going to be okay with that. And if it was all placebo, even better. So that's why I'm open to things like this, even though I could not profess to tell you whether it's quote real or not. But if you use it, you get results, great. If you use it, you don't get results, don't use it anymore. It's pretty true.

Well, that had me sold when I was suddenly solving cases in my coaching practice that didn't make sense. And I think that's, you know, it is, I think like I like how you said it's a balance between intuition and trust because I can have intuitive insight but never act upon it. Then I'm never going to train that muscle in a way that as I do when I do, when I take that leap of faith and I trust that it's right. Because, you know, I think even those things that maybe went wrong in the past, if we're honest and we look back and decipher why it went went wrong or what we learned from it, it was always worth it. So intuition always has our back, even if things don't go the way that we want them to.

It's usually better that way. Wouldn't you agree? Absolutely. Now we're coming up on the end of the show and I've got another question for you and maybe you can channel an answer for me. And I've been asking everyone this because I spent 20 years in the anti-aging field and, and for the first 500, almost 600 episodes, it's been around human performance. But I want to know, how long are you going to live?

How long am I going to live? Absolutely. I don't know. But the images that I get when I ask that question is I see myself a very old lady. I see myself very happy. And yeah, that's good enough for me because I have also learned, you know, I don't need to know everything. Upfront because that puts me into a state of control, of needing or wanting control, which is the opposite of surrender. It's the opposite of trust. It's the opposite of trusting that intuition has got my back and I just need to be my best self and turn up, show up every day. So I don't know. How about you?

Well, I think at least 180. Wow. You can join hands with Ry.

He wants to be 120.

Yeah, your husband, he's fantastic. Well, we know we can do 120. That's already been done. I'm just figuring in the next 100 years we might learn a few things about living longer, and I'm going to take advantage of those. But if— I mean, you can— let's say if you could write your ticket, how long do you think you could live? How long do you want to live? Like, I want to talk about longevity.

Okay, at least 3 digits, so over 100 for sure. So I'm aiming at between 103 and 120. And looking at the oldest people on this planet, the pattern that I saw that connects them all is they found happiness. And I think that is what was the final ticket for me to sell me on intuition and the power of it is that I discovered that we can't be happy when we're not tuned into our intuition. If we don't know what's right for us, if we don't feel that in us, if we are not connected to us, to our truth, then we'll never be truly happy. We'll make it all dependent on outside circumstances. We'll maybe feel, you know, not complete. And that, I think, is the biggest gift of intuition is just to know what's right for you.

That was one of the biggest things that came out of writing Game Changers. There were 3 big themes. The people who did really big things in the world, they're looking at things to be smarter, things to be faster, and things to be happier. And the people who figured out how to be happy did amazing things, but the people who did amazing things didn't get happy as a result of doing it. In fact, very few of them actually did amazing things. And if you tie that back to your intuition focus, then what you're saying is people who follow their intuition generate happiness more than people who do what they're supposed to do to be happy. And that happiness is a source of human performance, which is really cool. That was something that really surprised me that came out of the results of looking at all the data in the book. Speaking of books, your two books are— one is called How to Use Intuition to Change Your Life. The other one I think is called Brain Hacks.

It's actually Sleep Your Fat Away.

Oh, you have one called— We have— This is an excerpt from your book. I'm sorry, I was calling it Brain Hacks.

I'm all for brain hacks.

That was actually called a brain fart that I just had there because it was part of your book. Anyway, you have the Use Your Intuition book, which is definitely worth reading, and you have your things online around brain training at night, NLP and things like that. Absolutely. For people who are looking to lose weight, we'll give that a try. People can find that at joymartina.com where you've got your stuff. Is out there, to be perfectly honest. And that said, for people listening, like, Dave, you know, why do you have someone who's, you know, psychic intuition channeling? I, I've seen Joy do her work and she's got skills. Uh, she's not full of BS. Uh, and, uh, and I, I just, uh, I think it's important that all of us pay attention to how is it that some people do things that they're not supposed to be able to do and do it reliably and teach teach other people how to do it. That's where the borders of science are. And people have been studying these skills for thousands of years. Ayurveda, Taoism, Chinese medicine, the art of Western alchemy. These are all ancient lineages looking at untangling these capabilities of humans, the Yoga Sutras. So there's something there and something that science better look at because if you skip the first step of the scientific method, which is observation, and then hypothesis and testing, you're doing science wrong. So thanks for going out there and talking about all the woo-woo stuff, Joy.

I appreciate you. Anytime. Thank you so much.

It was a pleasure. If you like today's show, you know what to do. Go out there and intuit yourself a copy of Joy's book, copy of Game Changers, or whatever else is going to help you be happy and perform better. And while you're at it, practice gratitude, which means leaving a review for the show. You can do that at bulletproof.com/itunes. It'll take you right there to Apple's page to do that. And if you liked my book, you liked Joy's book, just leave a review. It's so easy to leave a review and it actually feels good to you to say, "Hey, nice job." And I actually read the reviews on Amazon. So if you would be so kind as to do that, I would appreciate it. Have a beautiful day.

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