Jim Kwik: What I Take to Biohack Brain Speed and Focus : 1312

Not a big fan of a lot of the brain games, and I think a lot of them have been debunked.

There's like a technique to learning and to study and just to take tests. And it really made a difference for me.

Your brain is only 2% of your body mass. It requires 20% nutrients. And some of those nutrients are a little bit different than the rest of your body. I had three bad kind of accidents with when it came to my head injuries. I wish I didn't have those injuries, but also it got me to where I am today. We hear a lot about post traumatic stress. We don't hear a lot about post traumatic growth.

What's the weirdest thing you've ever done to fix your brain? You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. It just feels like more and more people out there are having serious brain problems. So tell me about what happened when you were young, what it did to you, and how you improved and recovered. Because I think that's gonna help a lot of people know what's possible.

Yeah, the quick of it. When people see me at your events, sometimes, if there's time, I'll do these demonstrations where we'll pass around a microphone and people introduce themselves and I'll memorize names or challenging long words, like hundred words, whatever, and I'll do it forwards and backwards. But people are surprised to. I don't do this to impress them. I do this to express them what's possible. Because the truth is, I feel like we could all do that, regardless of our age or background or career, education level, financial situation, gender, history, iq. We just weren't taught. So I think it's a deficiency in our school system that they taught us, like things on what to learn, math and history and science. No classes on how to learn. And I think it's an important subject. And so that's part of the nature of why I wrote this book and do these talks. To show people to really showcase what they're capable of. As you alluded to. When I was five years old, I had a traumatic brain injury. I was in kindergarten class and I lost my balance standing on a chair. I went head first into a radiator. My parents said I was be very, very playful and curious, very energized. I became very shut down emotionally and it was challenging. I had sensory issues, somatic issues. I couldn't maintain my balance. Sometimes I was the last one picked for sports. I had these chronic migraines and I didn't even realize that it wasn't normal not to have headaches every single day when I was a kid. And that was just, that was, that was a challenge. Teachers would repeat themselves over and over again and I would eventually learn to pretend to understand, but I didn't understand. Took me three years longer to learn how to read. And that was very embarrassing, you know, when they passed around that book and I just didn't understand. And when I was nine years old, a defining moment, I was being teased and I got teased pretty harshly in school for various reasons. But this day was more than others. And a teacher came to my defense and pointed to me in front of the whole class and said, leave that kid alone. That's the boy with the broken brain. And that's kind of got imprinted on me. I don't think we're born with any of these things. It's just a blank slate in other people's expectations, our experience and their opinions. Kind of like reforming our personality. And so that was a big challenge. I mean, eventually it turns out okay for me, but it. When I was 18, I found a mentor. I got introduced to new content that was very helpful and help up level my learning in my life and doubling down on just the mission to build better, brighter brains. No brain left behind. And I've learned so much from you and your show, your books. I think you've been on our show probably more than almost anybody else on our podcast. I think we're on this quest to reveal and realize our fullest potential. When I first met you, I started really looking at the hardware because before everything was software, meaning how to read faster, how to remember names or languages and give speeches without notes and focus. But you know, taking care of the hardware, that three pound matter between our ears that doesn't come with an owner's manual. It's not super user friendly. And so yeah, just on a mission to build better, brighter brains.

It's kind of funny because if you have a really good brain and you don't know how to use it, you'll get subpart results. It's kind of like having a really fast computer and then you install like a 1990s operating system and it's just all crappy. Yeah, well put. But if you have a really slow computer and you install really good software on it, it's going to work better.

Right?

But it may not work anywhere near as well as it should. So if you manage your hardware, get your brain so it's electrically working as.

Well as it could, which means it's.

More efficient and you do all of the things that you teach around. You know how to do something right. It's the old thing I like to talk about. Okay, you can dig a hole with a shovel, or you could dig all the tractor. Well, your brain should be using the tractor whenever possible, because you can get more done and just understanding that it's neither one, but that you have to have the. I'm going to call them soft skills that. That you teach the techniques. Man, if I'd have had those in school. I had a similar experience to him. I don't think I've ever talked about this. I have a. Or at least I did. It's gone. An auditory processing disorder. It's part of being on the autism spectrum. It's part of the cluster of symptoms that they call Asperger's syndrome. And I didn't know this at the time of the kid. I was in the gifted program, so I was smart. But I also had, like, a misbehavior folder, like 10 inches thick, I'm sure. And I remember probably fourth grade, they were doing some kind of a math thing on the board. But I don't learn from hearing this. I didn't back then. Uh, I'm much better at that now. And so they were trying to explain it, and I just didn't get it. And like, after 10 times of them, like the teacher just saying, you know, now do you get it? Finally I was like, okay, sure, I get it. And I totally did. And then I started crying.

That was me daily. Yeah.

I just felt that when you were saying it. We never talked about this before.

I didn't know that. I didn't know that about you. Yeah.

And I. And for people saying, what do you mean? People get mad online when I say, well, I used to have Asperger syndrome, guys. I spent, like, a lot of money and a lot of time, and I've retrained my movement, my vision, my hearing, like, a lot of stuff. In addition to fixing my mitochondria, there's a reason I know all things. I know because I had to. To be here in the form that I am today. And you are the same way, Jim. I mean, not that you had Asperger's, but that you've done so much work on yourself, and. And that's how it is.

And it's interest. It's interesting, Dave, that. I mean, I'm sure a lot of your listeners can relate that with challenge comes change. With the. With the consistent struggle that you and I had, it led to strengths in Those areas that we were forced by life conditions to be able to level up because we're just behind in certain areas. And I just feel like that's encouraging, that adversity could be advantage. I don't know one strong person that had an easy life. And so yeah, it's one of the reasons why I love connecting with you and the community and we're always recommending your work.

Now you wrote Limitless actually a while ago and it was like all the soft techniques and your new expanded edition. The reason I wanted to have you back on the show is that you're talking about some things like nootropics and the other hardware, things that have become more a part of what you're thinking about, which I love because it's like, okay, you could train your memory like crazy. Or in my case, the reason I could do some of what I do is aniracetam. This is a gray zone cognitive enhancing substance that's been around for 30 plus years with a very high safety profile that increases memory IO and for my brain, when I'm on that stuff, which I've been on it for 25 years, I can remember stuff and I can store it and I can bring it up way more fluidly. And if I'm not on it, I miss it because I have to pause to think. So that's an example of one that is relatively esoteric, but for me that mattered. But I would want to start with the baseline stuff. In fact, that's why I teach people, you should have minerals and vitamin D. Go to vitamin D A K E.com guys. By the way, if you're interested in what I just said and don't know about it already, tell me about. And those are not cognitive enhancers. Those are just like baseline, the most foundational. I want to know straight before we get into optimization techniques. Favorite nootropics. Like what are Jim Kwik's top five nootropics?

So you know and I know just familiar with your work. You talk about modafidil and nicotine. And so I'll go into other, other areas in no particular order. L. Theanine. It's an amino acid often found. It's for me it's an alert, kind of relaxed. I don't feel so, so, so jittery. So to improve focus, reduce, reduce stress. It's kind of like this alert, calm. Bacopa. Is this something you use the ayurvedic herb traditionally used to enhance memory and learning and concentration.

I like Bacopa. It's Also got dopamine effects, I think. And for my brain, I like dopamine in all of its various forms and the ones I haven't figured out yet. So if you're a neuro person, you're laughing at what I'm saying. Cause I'm kind of making fun of myself. But yeah, for a lot of people, Bacopa can be really helpful.

There's an adaptogenic herb, rhodiola love. And it potentially enhance mental and physical performance, especially when you're under stress. Support the brain's resilience to stress, to mental fatigue. Potentially could help improve mood. I've been, I've been working out more this year than usual. The part of it is dialing in my sleep and I know, you know, that's been an issue with my obstructive sleep apnea. But I started taking creatine and then I started feeling just even mentally more energized. I don't know if that's something.

Creatine?

Yeah.

Oh, absolutely. So people who follow my recommendations, even going back to the bulletproof diet, they're red meat centric, which means you can get enough creatine if you're eating enough red meat. If not, supplement. I do both. So I take, oh, I think five grams, four grams. I'd have to look at the little packets I use. And yeah, because of, at a minimum, because of cell hydration. It's gonna make your brain work better. That's the worst case. But it probably also increases mitochondrial function and there's enough studies too.

And then when I was also sleep deprived also because I could, you know, I have the early kind of lifestyle where we could be on multiple continents in one week. And so there's a jet lag and sleeping, you know, outside of your normal, you know, normal bedroom and time zones. I felt that also helped supported when I was lack of sleep. I don't think anything is truly as good as getting good quality deep and REM sleep. But the creatine definitely helped with that for sure. What about alpha gpc? It's something we, we talked about also in terms of increasing choline levels, synthesis of acetylcholine, the neurotransmitter for learning and cognitive functions.

I like things that increase acetylcholine for brains that need acetylcholine.

Right.

So a little bit of alpha GPC is all right. I also like CDP choline, which I think has a better effect on cell membranes. It's relatively nuanced, but there, there is an argument for, for both or for being more CDP choline heavy. The thing is, though, if you're young, like, I became a voracious learner about how to learn because I realized I sucked at it. This is when I failed my first semester of college and was like, I thought school was easy. Cause I went to a crap high school. I'm like, oh, you know, I was top of my class, even though I slept all the time. Maybe you can't do that in college. So I got really, really into. Into all these. All these different things I could do back then. There's a book called Where There's a Will, there's an A. Which one of those. It's one of those, like, very, very early. I wish I could be Jim Quickbooks. Do you know the book? Have you even heard of it?

Yeah, I have. It's very, very early.

Yeah, it was very, very early. But this helped me. It's like, oh, my God. There's like a technique to learning and to study and just to take tests, and it really made a difference for me. And so you fast forward. But if I put my hat on and said, okay. Talking to myself when I was, you know, 17 or 18, whatever it was back then, and I had just listened to this episode, I would first buy Limitless, the book, and learn all the soft stuff. But you probably don't need to go heavy on acetylcholine. You could try it. But what happens to young brains if they're taking alpha GPC and they're taking too much of it? They will get jaw tension. They'll grind their teeth. They get, like, tension. I know because I started taking it heavy doses in my 20s, and I would get the jaw tension. I didn't know why until Steve, folks, who is one of my mentors who's been on the show a few times and wrote the smart drugs newsletters on paper in the 80s. Like who? The guy is just old school. He taught me about them. Oh, you mean as you age, you need more acetylcholine? So you might take, you know, one capsule in your 20s, it's like, I'm rocking it. But then when you're in your 30s, you might need two.

Right.

So it evolves over time, but generally, yes, for alpha gpc. But if. If you're, like, muscle tensioned out, maybe not.

What. What about sulforaphane?

I don't consider Sulforaphane as a cognitive enhancer, but it's a longevity substance with an upside and a downside. Are you a fan of it? For the brain, for.

For Brain health. Not, not necessarily as a nootropic, I wouldn't qualify it as, but to potentially reduce ox, Oxidative stress, inflammation.

Sulforaphane is something that I've, I wrote about in my longevity book, but not in my, my brain book. Right. And so keeping your brain functioning and young is really important, but for brain health, I like it. I did notice though, I was taking a broccoli sprout extract where you find a lot of sulforaphane, and my thallium levels went up meaningfully. Thallium is a toxic heavy metal that is tied mostly to kale. That's the, the member of that plant family that soaks it up the most. But it's present in all of the, all of the brassicas. So my theory is that it was accumulating in the extract of broccoli sprouts. And when I stopped taking them, I just had a test actually yesterday and my thallium levels are back down to zero because I don't eat kale and I try not to eat things that ate kale. I'm kidding. But I think as long as it's a quality extract that's properly tested, I think it's probably good for you. I did not test the one I was taking, so it was years ago.

Are you a fan of mushroom like Lion's Mane?

Yeah, I wrote about all the science. I was so excited about Lion's Mane at the very beginning of the biohacking movement because of all this bdnf. Bdnf, right. And there are great studies, but most of the supplements I was taking didn't work. And I even put Lion's mane in bulletproof coffee at the Bulletproof Cafe on Main street in Santa Monica in the first year. And there's a well known company that might have come in and sampled that and launched a, you know, lion's mane and coffee thing. To this day, I stand by the fact that your mushroom extracts should be taken separate from your coffee because they make the coffee taste like mushrooms instead of coffee. I like coffee. Like take it in a pill. It's just easier. Right. Or better yet, a dual extract of alcohol and hot water will work better. Cause a lot of the time you're just getting basically mushroom sawdust. It's not beneficial. So yes to lion's mane, but it better be good. Lion's mane.

Right. And these are supplements, not necessarily fall in the nootropics, but you know, for the bdnf, for the nerve growth factor. I mean, just even the Foundational things like their omega. Just doing nutrient profile tests and making sure you have your. Your omega 3s, your. Your DHAs, your magnesium, because that's part of, like, hundreds of physiological processes. I don't. I don't know. Curcumin. Is that something that you would add? Not, not necessarily as a nootropic, but for reducing inflammation, oxidative stress, turning down.

Brain inflammation, improving blood flow in the brain. Really, really good stuff. And I like it. They said curcumin, not turmeric, because at various times before, I got more and more dialed in on some of the plant toxins. It's tempting to just go buy a bunch of turmeric, the fresh herb, and then you just throw it in everything. You can do it, but it's not quite as strong as spinach and kale, but it's got enough oxalate that if you do that a lot, you'll bump your levels up, and that's bad for longevity. So I think this is one of the. One of the major things that we are not talking about in the world of aging is plant toxins. So I'm kind of doubling down on that. So curcumin, yes. Turmeric, occasional spice. But don't add a pound of it to your smoothie every day. You probably won't like what happens to your kidneys afterwards.

What about ashwagandha? Adapted adaptogenic herb?

Yes, for most people, but not all the time. This will sound funny. Ashwagandha kind of levels things out. But what this can do is it can make it harder to reach orgasm. And maybe for some people, that's a good thing.

I did not see that coming.

Hey, did you really just say I did not see that coming? What was that, an intentional joke? Jim? It was, God, look how fast he is. But it really does do that. So ashwagandha, I like. I was taking a high dose of it, and I actually noticed that effect. And now people are laughing about this.

Yeah.

I'll just say that sometimes, like the inability to experience pleasure, too much ashwagandha. So a reasonable dose for most people. I like it. Excessive dosing, I don't. So if it's in five of the things you're taking, you got an issue here. If you're into longevity or biohacking or just getting really lean and in shape, you're probably into fasting. But did you know that when you fast or you do a cut, 10 to 25% of the weight you lose comes from your muscles? What if there was a way to get the best of both worlds and keep that muscle that you worked so hard for. But you can do it during a fast, during a fasted workout or even during a cut. That's where Perfect Amino comes in. Perfect Amino delivers pure essential amino acids that your body actively uses about 99% to build Lean, lean muscle. And there's almost no caloric impact which means it won't break your fast the way that eating would. So you can still fast or cut without risking muscle loss. In fact, many people find that they gain lean muscle during a fasted workout when they take two servings of Perfect Amino beforehand while losing excess body fat at the same time. I take it every day to help me get high quality essential amino acids and stay lean, especially when I'm traveling. You're going to love it too. Go to bodyhealth.com and use code DAVE20 for 20 off your first order of perfect Amino.

What about for blood flow like ginkgo?

Love it. It's one of the most studied brand things. I take ginkgo every day. I love it that you're recommending that and you put that in your brain tea. What's in your brain tea? Recipe from the book.

That's just change over time. Sometimes I'll even put some, some, some of your. Your call your coffee and they're also the danger coffee.

Nice.

Yeah because yeah this our family. That's kind of a one of one of our go tos. The good to know about lion's mane mixing it for that but the you.

Can put it in your smoothie or in the tea. It's just like if you wanted to have a clean tasting cup of really good coffee there's no reason to throw it in the coffee and do it that way. Just take a pill or do a tincture and then you enjoy the coffee. I only want to put things that enhance the flavor of my coffee and enhance the functionality at the same time. If it enhances functionality take it separate from the coffee.

Yeah, I'm a fan of ginkgo. Yeah it's always, always for, for a long time. It's just kind of in the this my family's used that and you know in different forms but for memory, for cognitive function, for increasing blood flow. Different parts of your anatomy also, also as well. But yeah this is, this is something interesting because I've never really talked about you know I've been, I've learned so much at your events and through your work but I've kind of avoided this. But we put, we put all of these in one of the chapters, because people ask about nootropics, brain nutrition. Your brain is only 2% of your body mass, but requires 20 nutrients. And some of those nutrients are a little bit different than the rest of your body. But yeah, for people looking for an edge or maybe some kind of advantage, that definitely something people could look into. I also think, don't think for everything's for everybody. So people, I'm not a nutritionist. People could, you know, go to their expert. And Dave's one of those individuals that imparts good knowledge. So. Absolutely.

Are you combining nootropics with breathing or cold plunge or other biohacking techniques? Talk about how you approach them in limitless expanded edition.

Yeah, so we do address biohacking. And let's see. I mean, my morning routine and my evening routines, they've changed over time. You know, for. For me, I do some either you could do low cost things. I read that the Babylonians and ancient Greeks, they used to believe that everything was made up of four elements. Air, fire, water, earth. And so the first 12 minutes of the day, I just have to go outside. I have to get grounded. I just. Regardless of transfer of electrons every. I just, I just feel good when I'm barefoot on the ground. It's just kind of how I grew up. So that's my Earth. Get the sunlight, even if it's a little bit hazy outside. You know, our eyes are the only part of our brains on our side of our skulls to help me kind of reset my circadian rhythm. I have to be extra particular about that to help me sleep better at night. We can lose up to a pound of water at night, sometimes through respiration and perspiration. So I want to make sure I hydrate. And people could add whatever they had, whether it's salt or some kind of electrolytes. I'm sure you have a preference. I don't know, like, do you have some kind of additive to your water that makes it.

Yeah, I mean, since the very first episode, I think I've been talking about adding Himalayan salt or mine salt or sea salt or whatever to your water, especially in the morning for adrenals. And I've even doubled down on salt since then. I've been doing 8 grams of sodium a day, which is about almost four times the recommended amount from the government. Because I've just become more and more convinced that the government actually wants you to die. I don't know another way to put it, because the recommendations for sodium they have are so low that if you followed them. It raises your heart attack risk meaningfully because low sodium is dangerous and high sodium without potassium and all is dangerous. So I use either salt, you know, a natural full spectrum salt, or I'll use something like elements in my water. And especially when I'm flying, especially here. I just, I don't really drink plain water. It's always filtered. It's always energetically structured when I can do it. And then I add some sort of electrolyte because it's kind of dumb to drink water that has no electrolytes. It just, it doesn't work very well.

I feel that on our podcast we had Dr. Lisa Moscone. I don't know if you had her on.

She's been on. Yeah, she's great.

Yeah. She's a neuroscientist and also a nutritionist. And she was saying that staying hydrated, we can boost your reaction time, thinking speed upwards. Some of some subjects upwards of 30%. So that's the water. So I have fire from the sun, you know, the ground. I have earth, my water and then. And some breathing, whether it's Wim Hof breathing or alpha breathing, box breathing, fire breathing, whatever, whatever. Just I feel like it just clears the mental cobwebs from the night before. But that all takes 12 minutes. I got it timed in, but. But obviously, you know, I've been exposed to so many different biohacks and where I'm here now, I have heart hyperbaric chamber. That was a big part of my TBI recoveries protocol. Just getting oxygen in the part of my brain where I just was damaged and I didn't have just adequate blood flow. I just recently did a follow up with our mutual friend Dr. Daniel Amen. And it's remarkably different post for that red light. My go to is cold heat and the float tank. Because of that, the sensitivity I have with my sleep floating has just been really good for me. It's been very therapeutic way. It's funny, I don't want to oversimplify this, but my day is really spent doing four sees in terms of. So I'm not multitasking. I'm trying to. When we switch from one activity to another, it's just you have to light up a different cognitive web and it not only does it take time to regain your focus, but it also made more mistakes if we're trying to do too much at the same time. And also we use, you know, more brain glucose so people feel a little depleted. But generally, and I'm not recommending people follow this, but understand the principle behind it. In the morning time, I feel most creative, so I just want to. I want to create. I'm not looking for input. I'm looking for getting output out of myself. That's when I write or I sketch out podcasts or I plan a new course. In the afternoon, I tend to consume, so I'll make them four C's. In the morning, I create. In the afternoon, I'll consume. I'll listen to podcasts, research, read books, those kind of things. And then at night, the third C is I clear. I just want to empty my mind, get in that parasympathetic rest, digest. Which means that clearing could be journaling. It could be as easy as kind of reviewing my day or talking to my wife about my day. It's a way of me clearing or planning my day the next. The next day, it's just clearing so I don't have to obsess or ruminate about things I have to do in the next day. Journaling. Some people, you do yoga, Nidra. But it's like morning, I'm so creative and I don't want to shunt that. And I have a lot of energy. I just create. In the afternoon, I consume. In the evening, I clear. And if I was at the 4C, it's just communicate. And that's usually. I usually do it in batches. Like I task, batch everything because I just feel like when I was sleeping, you know, this, it's, you know, sleeping 90 minutes a night or two hours a night for five years. I misdiagnosed with that obstructive sleep apnea. I had to lean into all of these things. So I'm just kind of documenting and sharing what I do. But I'll go for get my steps in and then also do all my calls at the same time, ideally. And now it's never perfect like that. Nobody has a perfect life because, you know, life is messy, just like it's just like learning. But if those four Cs are big buckets for me and I try to do them at the same as much as possible, and the tenna just makes it easy. But all the biohacks is amazing. I met Wim Hof speaking at an event in Boston in 2012. And cold has always been part of. And I'm not especially when you're tired, you don't really want to get in the cold. But that's something. It's just a nervous system reset for me. I mean, besides the dopamine and all the other inflammation all the benefits that come from it. That and sauna is just. Yeah, it's like my go tos.

It's funny. We arrived at pretty much the same place, right. Because I had a brain injury. And it was what Dr. Amen. And I'm so honored. I'm on his board of directors now. I don't know if we've talked about that. Yeah. For Amen Clinics. He's going to come back on the show soon. But this is a man who really changed, I think, both of our lives just with his, with his work. What Dr. Amen said was that I had mold toxin induced brain damage, like literally chemically induced brain damage and big holes in my brain and low blood flow and all that. And when I came back later, it had healed. So I just want people to hear that you had a physical brain injury. I later had another big brain injury with a bleed where I, you know, couldn't remember anything. And between hyperbaric and the right nootropics and neurofeedback and breathing and cold, you can come back. And like, I've come back twice. You've come back. And so like, you're, you're doing it right is all I can say. And so for people listening, if your brain just isn't working, it's fixable. It's a hardware problem.

You can do that. And I, and I love that you say that because it just gives people hope and real, real help. Right. It's amazing. I had, I had three, like, bad kind of accidents with, when it came to my, my head injuries, falling off a rooftop. I flipped really far off my bike head first. And just like, really, your brain is very resilient, but it's also very fragile. You know, my, my parents, they immigrated here. They had many jobs. I wasn't very well supervised. Like kids, I think sometimes are even overprotected.

No kidding.

In so many ways. But, you know, I'm just kind of thinking that as father. But do I wish I didn't have those injuries? Maybe part of my wish I did, but. But also it got me to where I am today. And I just, I feel like we hear a lot about post traumatic stress. We don't hear a lot about post traumatic growth. Like those individuals that come through something that they wouldn't. I'm sure some of your listeners have been through an experience they wouldn't wish upon anybody.

Yeah.

And they wouldn't change what they went through because through it they found some kind of clarity. They found some kind of trait to maybe a mission Or a purpose or a strength that they didn't realize that they had, you know, and I think we're best suited also, Dave, to support and serve the person we once were. You know, that person that you, that you were in Silicon Valley where you're overweight and you had, you know, these challenges. I feel like it builds a level of empathy and level of compassion, understanding for what people are going through. Because for the longest time I never shared, you know, my losing my grandmother to Alzheimer's or just being bullied or just having my learning difficulties or head injury. But I feel like it just makes it more real and raw. I think people are really looking for something that's, something that's tangible. But yeah, I think we're best for all of us. I think we're best served to support the people we once were. So I do the work I do for that nine year kid that was labeled, you know, broken and didn't believe in himself, that was fearful and getting sick every single time he went to school. Just because the anxiety that I had and, you know, learning disabilities that I.

Had, it takes a certain level of vulnerability. I was actually talking with Gary Vee about this as well. Same thing, you got to talk about the things you went through and he talks about childhood and all that. And one of the things that really stood out is maybe 15 years ago, the CEO of Cisco Systems, major player in computer tech stuff, multibillion dollar company, many many multi billions. And the CEO, John Chambers, who I've met a few times over the years, he was at a charity event and this little girl at a speech embedment just started crying, kind of like the experience you and I described earlier. And he just stopped and he said, look, it's okay. I had adhd. I still do. Right? And this was one of the first times anyone in a position of corporate power was willing to talk about it. Like, this guy was like a big dog at the time. He was probably one of the top 100 biggest companies out there and he had built it up for many, many years. So he was in a position of power and influence to be able to talk about the inner struggles and that helped to normalize. Now when people are really successful, like, hey, it might look easy, you might tell yourself this story about it. But no, I've dealt with it and I, I love just how authentic you are in that cause. Yeah, you're. You felt like a failure and you.

Had a brain problem.

I felt like a failure. I had a brain problem and I had a health problem. And Learning to deal with those things has made both of us and I think.

And I'll give people, I'll give you a plug because I'm not, I'm invested in this but something to help me, you know, along the way reconcile that shame and that embarrassment and the forgiveness was, was going through 40 years of Zen.

Oh, thanks man. Thanks for the mention that was.

I was one of your early clients for that. Yeah. And it was something that was. Just came at the right time. Not just to forgive events because that loss of balance was due to another person where I had my head injury, but be able to reconcile that and not hold that, that, that angst. And then also the self forgiveness and the fact that everything is just very, you know, it's very measurable. And so that was something I have to put in terms of top 10 in terms of on my personal journey. And I definitely love to do another session in the future because I just feel like it's a reboot. Sometimes we have to disconnect to reconnect. But if you do it in a way and get these incredible measurable visceral results and for doing the inner work, I mean we hear all about everyone's doing the outer work and exercising and doing all this stuff but, but that emotional thread and to be able to help with your state regulation, your nervous system, be able to get into those different brainwave states. Very, very therapeutic.

Well, thanks for the mention. And guys, if you're new to the show, 40 years in is my neuroscience company. It's a five day in Seattle with the highest end neuroscience that I can figure out on how to improve your brain function. We've actually got seven patents in neuroscience. Build our own hardware and software for improving brain brain function and you go through in a very small group and like Jim says it's, it's a major reboot and about 1500 people have gone through there and it's been, it's been life changing. And I've spent six months of my life with electrodes on my head building out the program. So there's a reason I can do some of what I do because I learned the states and I've done all the other weird stuff too. Like you have what's the weirdest thing you've ever done to fix your brain?

I mean that wasn't weird, but that was definitely a unique experience. Um, I mean right.

Was drugs, but people oftentimes compare them as to psychedelics.

I mean this was like 10 years ago. Yeah, it was a while ago and right before that I had flew from a procedure, I had interthecal stem cell procedure. So that was kind of an interesting stack for me because I was, I was one of repair my Brain. So I did the stem cell procedure and I flew right from where I got it done to your facility in, in. In Seattle. So that was, that was quite, quite an experience. I'm curious actually what most people have done if they could take a screenshot of this. Tag, Dave. Tag myself. And what's the. You've done to kind of attack your brains?

Oh, that's a, That's a really good idea. You're always good at including your community in a really gentle way. I, I love that idea. So, I mean, I, I've done all sorts of weird stuff. I mean, I'm Poppy enemas don't even count. But. So, yeah, I'm, I'm really, I'm really curious. Tell me about your exercise stuff because you have like a section in the book on, on exercises for the brain specifically. I, I want to go into that.

Yeah. I mean, physical exercise is also part of it. And so I've been, I mentioned I've been more physical this past year for the exercises that I prefer. I mean, I've done a lot of table tennis with Dr. Daniel. Amen. Amen.

Yeah. I bought, I bought a table because of him as well. Okay.

I love.

Do you still do that now?

I do. We have it. We have a, we have a table and just kind of. It's just, it's. It's fun activity and eye coordination, reaction time. I get a little bit bored, you know, using my dominant hand. So I'll switch off, you know, left and right hand. I feel like it's a, it's a great workout. Also. It's a nice brain break in between meetings. If I have like 10, 15 minutes and I want to just do something physical, I just. We just know as your body moves, your brain grooves. The number one reason why we have a brain is to control our movement. And it's not just a mind body connection. There's certainly a body mind connection in terms of helping development. I'm seeing this with, with our 10 month old, you know, when he started to crawl, you know, and do those kind of cross laterals and you get his, you know, his somatic awareness and his balance. Dance is something that is interesting. I like things like martial arts where I take my mind and I have to kind of put it into my body. It's because of you, though, that I have a lot of the, the cheat machines. And the, you know, the fancy things because the time is of the essence. So I, I really don't want to spend, you know, hours upon hours in, in the gym every single week.

You're just, you're an Upgrade Labs fan.

Oh yeah, that was, I think I was your first client in Santa Monica. I think you were tested everything for three months with your amazing expert staff. But yeah, it's just the physicality of it. I've done martial arts my whole life, so it's, it's, that's somewhere that feels very good for me. And then, but resistance training, whether it's the Rx or team of any the things that you have at Upgrade is important. I mean it helps with your neurotransmitter, dopamine, serotonin, endorphins, reduce bdnf. Your brain derived neurotropic factors could help lower systemic inflammation. I mean, there's so many benefits that come from physical exercise. Exercise for the brain. I'm still a big fan of reading and I know it's so old school, but if people seen pictures of me with Elon and the Oprahs, it's just we bonded. People always ask like we bonded over books. No joke, because you read to succeed. Even Warren Buffett. I mean, there's this one time at his annual meeting that he was at the mall just playing bridge with people. And I, and I, I'm not a big bridge player, but I, I, I went through the rotation, I got to talk to him and he validated. He really does read 500 pages a day. I mean, I was, I mean, I don't know what he does now, but, but it just, it interests me. So I think reading is to the mind what exercise is to the body. If you want to grow your muscles, you give it two things. You give it novelty and you give it nutrition. Right? And same thing with your mental muscles. I feel like novelty through. I like reading. I'm not a big fan of a lot of the brain games and I think a lot of them been debunked. You know, matching shapes or color, it doesn't really translate into every day. That's why we focus on things that are very measurable, like and very relevant. You need to remember names and faces or client information, product information. You can measure reading speed, reading comprehension, giving speeches or language learning, whatever. You could just come back to that. You can measure focus. But I love, I love reading. The only caveat is, I would say is I read fiction and nonfiction. I never used to read fiction ever, but I Started seeing results just I saw studies that fiction reading. I think when you read nonfiction you learn through information and when you read fiction, you learn through imagination. Fiction reading has been shown to have a positive effect on your eq.

Wow.

Quotient the narrative, be able to see things from different points of view and high levels of empathy through the storytelling. The only thing is I do read my fiction at night exclusively because I don't want to read a book on neuroscience or biohacking. And again, my kind of executive brain before I go to sleep. That's still. I'm looking to clear. Right. You know, that parasympathetic rest and digest.

Is it stressful or invigorating to read a book on neuroscience?

Well, no, it sounds as stressful, but it just puts me in this state where I start thinking a lot and I don't want to ruminate over all these different ideas. And so that's why I kind of, kind of keep it in the afternoon for my afternoon reading. I can take a little brain break and read some read and study and research. But I've also trained my nervous system. So first thing in the morning I'm just creative. Afternoon I'm just consuming. But I will. The only thing I will consume in the evening would be more. I'm not a big binge watcher of a lot of television, but I will read a good fiction book or a comic book. Even people know that. I mean, I wanted to get into comics and draw comics and write comic books and I learned how to read by reading comic books. And so it's something that just kind of brings me joy and want to bring joy into the things that I do. And I think that's. Yeah, it's something that I feel like if you, if you do the things that you love, then you could add five days, you know, to every week because most people look forward to the weekends. Right. But also if you're not doing what you love, I think it. We can have the mindset where we could discover or find the love in what we do because there's so many people that necessarily doing anything that they're really passionate about, but they find joy in the process of doing whatever that it is they're doing. But there's a. There's a quote in Limitless from a French philosopher that sums it up saying life is the letter C between B and D. Life is C between B and D where B is birth, D is death. Life, C is choice. And I just saying this to remind everyone that our lives are the sum Total of all the choices we made up to this point, you know, who are we going to spend time with? What are we going to do? What are we going to live? What are we going to eat? What are we going to feed our minds? All those different things. And I truly believe that these difficult times, they could either distract you and people have a real agenda for that, or they could diminish you, or these difficult times, they could develop you. You know, we. We decide. And I think that a lot of your listeners share, have this similar. Different but similar stories as us that, you know, we went through this and we decided what these things mean, and we started looking for the gift in all this. Like, my two biggest challenges were, were learning and public speaking for the longest time. And, you know, life has a sense of humor because all I do is public speak on this thing called learning, right? You know, and even with my sleep deficiency, you know, sleeping 90 minutes a night for five years and, you know, and then learning to be able to hack that, being exposed to your work and other, you know, sleep experts and having this very painful UPP surgery where they took out my. @ UCLA, took out my soft palate, my ulula, my tonsils to just create airflow. And then my sleep jumped up to four years. Then in order to deal with it, you know, think about all the angst you have when most people just excited to go to sleep or just relax and look forward to it. For me, it was just. I stopped breathing 250 times a night. Each time was an episode, counts as an episode if it's more than 10 seconds. So it's like somebody putting a pillow over your face 250 times a night. But even that, I had to say, like, where's the gift in this? And I found two things. I was like, okay, it forced me to double down everything I teach because I wouldn't be able to be productive or perform like I can if I didn't. And then the other thing is, is I got really conscious of my time because so many people, I think, are a little drained because they're saying yes too much. And I just want to remind people when you say yes to somebody or something, you're not saying no to yourself. And so for everything in my life, it's hell yes or hell no. It's always been that, like, when I'm on your stage or I'm like, with you, and we're, you know, cutting a good stake, and just, like, that's where I want to be. Because. Because when you're sleep deprived you can't commit to a lot of things. And so it's always like it's that binary for me, but that's how I find the gift in it. And then I could, you know, resolve it and then, you know, hopefully it serves. It's. It served me because now my sleep is, you know, it's, it's not where I want it to be, but it's still because think of in mind honestly, lifestyle wise, I would pull these all nighters as a kid because I had learning difficulties. So I've worked three times harder than everybody else. I built very bad habits and my career. I've spent even three continents in one week. So it just really messed with my sleep.

It really does. By the way, I, I flew from Austin to Toronto and back in the last two days. I'm, I'm with you on the, you know, the crazy stuff. But you can handle it now better than you could back then, can you?

So much better. Yeah.

Because you mastered your brain.

I think this is how these things show up because I believe the life we live, a lot of the lessons we teach. Right. And like you're, you're sharing the things and certainly do your research but you're sharing things that work for you and you know, shame on us. Like I'm talking whoever's listening to this and he's a little push like going back to like serving the person you once were. Like I almost feel an, a moral responsibility. That's how I got over my stage flight fright where I'd be like not just scared, I'd be phobic, I couldn't breathe, I would pass out, you know, just thinking about being on in front of like even like second grade students when I started out, like when my career. But what got me over it was focusing on the person that could benefit because you have a moral obligation to, I feel almost help people that are struggling because shame on me if somebody's struggling the way I did and I didn't. What, you know, I didn't help them. And I just feel like that's my kind of take on it. But that's what gets me over the challenges that I have and why we're having this conversation now. And so this, I think it's just I'm so passionate no matter how much lack of sleep I had and so much that I just show up for the person who needs to hear something that I've learned along the way.

What's your brain animal.

Before I tell people, can I give them like a little context?

Sure.

So the new book, the updated version, not only has case studies of readers and we've sold a million copies in three years of the original book and very proud of it, donated a lot to. There's a whole chapter on something called your cognitive types. And again, it's an assessment that was inspired by personality types, those like Myers Briggs, left brain, right brain, lateralization, learning styles, consuming, visual, auditory, kinesthetic learning, introvert, extrovert, multiple intelligence theory. So it was inspired by a lot of various science and psychologies, but really, as we know, the menu is not the meal. Right? We've heard that, that the map is not the territory, but it's to give you distinctions and a lens to look things through. So if you think about code, cod, your brain code, these are the four animals and maybe as I say, this one will resonate with those who are listening. So the, the C, because I make everything an acronym, is the cheetah. And the cheetah, the defining trait is action. There's an idea, they learn something, they put it into action right away. They have very strong intuition, they adapt very quickly, they thrive in fast paced environments. The O in code are your owls. And by the way, we're not any one of these, we're a composite. But there's usually one that's more primary and then secondary. It's like if you're right handed, doesn't mean you don't use your left hand, it's just it hasn't developed as much as where your strength is. Right? The O is defined as an owl and it's defined by owl. Very logical. So these are. People love data, they love facts and figures and the information, they do their research. And again, we're a combination of this. The D and code are your dolphins and these are your creatives. They can maybe even see a future that other people can't yet see or their business like a Disney kind of thing, or J.K. rowlings, where they have this vision, they're very creative, they're strong with pattern recognition. And then finally, the E are your elephants and their defining trait is empathy. And these are your community builders. These are your people who have high levels of empathy and compassion, strong interpersonal skills. And just as an example, like we had our team take this and 100% of our customer service team, 10 plus people, they're all elephants and we didn't hire for them. But it's interesting how we naturally will gravitate towards jobs or positions that allow us to be in our element where we get to highlight and live in our zone of strengths and traits, our CFO is very strong. Owl, right? Numbers. Yeah. My business partner is. Our CEO is a dolphin, has this vision of billion brains. And it's just been extremely, extremely creative. So it's interesting you could see this. Every day we take this quiz that's in the book or people could do it@mybrainanimal.com and it's just like, you know how there's personalized medicine based on your genetic taking a step like your genetics or personalized nutrition based on your nutrient profile or microbiome or something. This is like personalized learning because it's like once you take the quiz we give you, it informs how you could read better, how you could remember better even how you could hire, how you can manage, how you could parent based on your brain type. It's kind of like love languages, right? Where somebody has like words of affirmation. Other people, as you know, acts of kindness and it's. They communicate in different language. It's just like if your brain type is one and something, your teacher's brain type is a different one. It's like you're not getting it because it's like two ships passing in the night and you don't have. You don't even realize the other one's there. Because these. A cheetah invest differently than an owl, right? They parent differently. They communicate differently also as well. So an example, if you take. Let's give a reference point for everybody. If you take something like Friends, right? The sitcom. Ross would be an owl. You know, the professor, the scientist, does a lot of research. Phoebe would be the creative dolphin, expresses through music and very passionate about her arts. Joey would be the cheetah because in the moment he goes into it and he acts and he goes on his intuition and he just adapts. I would think Monica would be the community builder. Always wants to host everything at her apartment. She's the elephant, right? And so you can see this in Star Trek and Star wars and Game of Thrones and Harry Potter. You could put everybody in these categories. And again, the menu is not the meal. It just gives you some distinctions. Because even when you're communicating, people would fall in their jobs. Like the Cheetahs would be the entrepreneurs, right? They would. They could be EMTs. They could be professional athletes like Serena Williams or something. The owls would fall into, you know, data analysts or engineers or accountants or research scientists or coders or dolphins would be the graphic designers or the writers or the marketing specialists. And your elephants could be HR people Or social workers or public relations or teachers or project managers. But you could just even think about famous individuals. Einstein could have been an owl. Marie Curie could have been an owl. Isaac Newton, an owl. Cheetahs could be your Richard Branson, your Steve Jobs. Dolphins could be your Leonardo da Vinci's or your Picassos. And so it's. Elephants could be your Mahatma Gandhi or your Martin Luther Kings. But it kind of informs like your learning the way you lead even higher manage. Because they also communicate differently also as well. Like a cheetah is direct to the point because they don't beat around the bush because it's their time, right? Owls take a little bit more time, get the facts, get all the little, the details would speak more analytically and more methodically. They're willing to listen a little bit more because they want to reflect on and compare it to what they already know. Dolphins would speak about the bigger picture, about future plans, about innovative ideas. They'd be very enthusiastic around it. Elephants would be very keen on understanding and validating the other person's point of view. They want people to feel seen, they want people to feel valued and heard. They would look to create a consensus among people. They would even use words. They would, they wouldn't use so much I and my. They would use words like we and us, you know, emphasizing group unity. And so I think, you know, understanding your dominant, you know, cognitive type. We would just be very informative of how you would parent of how you would hire for different roles and responsibilities and how you would communicate, negotiate, even selling, you know, like a cheetah would naturally be more agile and adapt to the pace of a client. They would, they would. If you're selling to a cheetah, right, because everyone speaks their, their language, their brain language or love language in the other way. But they would, you know, if you're selling to a cheetah, they would appreciate direct value, efficiency. Skip the small talk, right? Demonstrate, you know, and owls would, you know, if you're now a salesperson, you're very detail oriented and that could work for some people in depth. You know, foresee clients needs and present to tailored solutions. But if you're selling to an owl, they appreciate, well, research presentations and statistics and case studies, whereas a dolphin could care probably less. They want to see the big picture of the future and leverage their natural charisma for storytelling. So you want to speak to their vision and how this offering fits them into a larger picture of innovation or whatever it is you have to offer in elephants. Forget all that it's all about the relationship, right? Deep relationship. Focus on building trust and rapport. If you're selling to an elephant, spend time understanding their needs. Demonstrate you generally care about their success, especially post, post sale. And so I feel like, you know, now I'm just kind of this stream of consciousness. But when people take the quiz and then the book or we put it online for the first time for free, it's my brain animal. There's nothing to buy.com and you'll get a personalized report because a cheetah would read things, they would skim and scan speed, right? And owl will be looking for the details. A dolphin who's creative. When they're reading, they'll visualize a lot of what they're, what they're reading. Because picture is worth a thousand words. An elephant reading something would read from empathetic. They want to know the where the author is coming from, right. And see the different perspectives. And so I think it informs every area because our brain is involved in everything. That's the thing I'm most excited about. With that and understanding, you're going back to momentum. Understanding your brain animal and the animals around you could greatly accelerate the velocity with less friction and conflict. Because it's not how smart you are, it's how are you smart. It's not how smart your kids are, it's how are they smart and just because of different perspectives. Perspective in terms of like there's a scene in, in Matrix where Neo goes to see the Oracle for the very first time in her kitchen. And I think most people miss this, but there was a sign above the door that Neo walked into the kitchen. It says know yourself. And I feel like that's why people do things like they go to therapy or they do, they go to four years of Zen or they do plant medicine or they get to know themselves, right? To meditate or whatever introspection that they do. And I think we need the curiosity to know yourself because self awareness is a superpower. And then I think on the other side, you need, once you have the curiosity to know yourself, you need the courage to be yourself in a world full of other people's opinions and their expectations. Like, you know, because who, who cares? Because if we're fueling, you know, if that's the fuel of our life, we're going to certainly run out of gas, right? But it takes, it's a different skill set to be, to be that person. Once you get to kind of know yourself and what you stand for and who you are and and your identity and all that.

Knowing yourself means you can apply yourself better into those things where you're going to get the most return for the amount of effort you put into it. And I like this being a cheetah. It only took me two and a half minutes to do the four minute test.

Just you're so good and I give the examples. So that way you could kind of see things through a lens and everything's not exactly. But again the menu is not, is not the meal. But it gives you distinctions that we wouldn't normally have. And it takes a judgment sometimes around like the people around us because they're just acting in accordance to their, their mental strengths and also the self judgment we have on ourselves if we're not good at any of these areas. And can you over time change your animal certainly in context and life conditions could change your value system and putting more emphasis on logic or something. I think it just makes us more of a, more of a whole brain. But even when it comes to parenting, like, like the strengths of a cheetah, cheetah parents adapt quickly and that's very necessary with kids. They can make decisions on the fly and can be very proactive with their kids. A challenge might be that sometimes they're a little bit more impatient because maybe their kids aren't adapting as quickly as they are right. Or even if you take an owl. Owl parents are good at planning, creating structure environments. They can impart critical thinking skills to their kids, help them approach problems methodically. But they might also at the challeng with, they might overanalyze and might struggle being spontaneous with the kids and having fun and those unpredictable child behaviors. A dolphin, you know, when they're parenting they could have a lot of a vision. It can instill a sense of wonder and creativity and passion. The challenges might be, they might not be practical all the time, you know, with dolphins with the kids and they overlook certain day to day necessities. And then finally the elephant coming to parenting, the strengths would be empathy. They can understand and relate to the child's feelings and the problem, prioritize that connection and be very patient. But the challenges come. They might struggle setting up boundaries with the kids, right? They might prioritize the relationship and they might avoid discipline or conflicts. And so it's just again self awareness, you know, understanding your brain, understanding your kid's brain, maybe even like you know, if you're co parenting, like you know, seeing what the, what that dynamic looks like. But hiring, managing, I mean it's just brains are Everywhere.

Right. Hard question for you. Does your brain type change over time, like as you age or when you have kids or when you get married, or is it fixed?

It can because of what we know about neuroplasticity, right? When with novelty and new life conditions, and usually it takes a life condition to spawn. Because if you have something that happens and it changed your value system in terms of something happens that's, let's say, very disturbing, and it creates more empathy and that's something you value, then you're going to lean more into that elephant, right? And you're looking for more opportunities to express that elephant in order to enhance those kind of traits. So again, we're not any one animal because we're composite. I'm sure when you're taking the quiz there are like two answers often where you can say, I'll commit this. It could be this. It could be context dependent also as well, like maybe you're a cheetah in, you know, in the context of business, but maybe you put on more of an elephant hat, like in relationships and you're more, you know, empathy. So it could be context dependent. And it's not set just because like multiple intelligence theory, our intelligence is not set, not fix, like our shoe size. You can improve your musical intelligence, your kinesthetic intelligence, your interpersonal intelligence, and so much more your visual spatial intelligence through proper training. And that's the exciting part about these genius. Because genius, it's not so much born, it's built through discipline, through sacrifice, through hard work, through focus, through investing in your own personal development and so much more. So we could evolve over time certainly into different animals. And also, you know, we make the choice, you know, sometimes, like, if you know that your weaknesses are in this area, you could either go all in on your strengths or you could increase your areas that you're not so good at to balance it out. But it's, it's our choice if you want to be more of a specialist or a generalist. And it really depends on the outcome that we have in our learning and our, our life.

It does, it depends so much. And, and I actually really like this. Jim, did you consult with neuroscientists or use a. How did you come up with this thing? Because it's kind of like a Colby score or a Myers Briggs.

It's lighter weight than that and we're building it out. Also because we have a lot of, even with our speed reading memory, we have students in every country in the world. So we have a lot of data. This is what I've been using with coaching clients for years. And this is what I updated Limitless because of two reasons. There's an external reason because the world has changed a lot the past few years. And AI and, you know, all the stuff that we've gone through the past few years and also my world.

Do you think your brain type shifted?

I'm a strong owls.

You're like an owl to me.

Yeah. So I love the, you know, I love facts and theory. I'm not. But also empath. I have a very strong elephant because I think because I was, you know, struggling so much as a kid, I was isolated, I was bullied. And I'm not looking for, like, something everyone has their own story. But I would watch people and I could detect suffering in other people because I was living in it, you know, 24 7. That's why I would escape in Dungeons and Dragons and video games or comic books. Right. Because I was in so much pain and I didn't have anyone to kind of relate to. But I would see people around me and I would know when they're struggling. And I think that made me an effective coach because going back to, like, I know what it feels like to feel insecure about something or not be good at something. So I never take it for granted when I'm teaching speed reading or whatever that, you know, for something new, it's challenging. That's why every single month I try to pick up a new skill or learn a new subject, because I need to feel that rawness of what it feels like to feel inadequate. Because I feel like it makes me, at a meta level, a better coach when I pull people into our strategies and knowledge, skills and abilities.

Okay, I have to admit, Jim, when you told me you're coming out with an expanded edition of Limitless, there's a lot of authors who will kind of like, milk a book that way. Oh, yeah, it's a new edition. New edition. But I've known you for a long time and you did so well with the first edition. I'm like. But so of course I dug in on it and it's a whole different book. I mean, you have the core. Here's what you need to know, technique wise, which you barely talked about on this interview, but then you included all this new stuff that's. It's got a biohacking angle to it that I know this audience will like. And you talk about nootropics, you talk about brain hardware, and you talk about the soft skills and even this brain typing thing. So it's a, it's a comprehensive view and I just have to say I, I appreciate all, all the stuff you're doing in the world and I still suck at remembering people's names.

And I want to say this is the final, I don't know, like, about updating books, but I'm never going to update this book again. This is the second version, the most complete. I could have wrote a whole new book based on this, but there's over 120 new pages of tactics. Everything for me is very tactical and so I hope people appreciate it. And Dave, I appreciate your work, your community, your conferences. I don't know how to express it, but I hope those, I know, those who are listening, we're here for a reason. And yeah, I'm grateful for our friendship. So thank you.

Me too, my friend. Keep doing all the amazing stuff you do in the world. And I haven't met your baby yet, but soon enough.

Yeah, thank you all for the great advice. Also, I always thought that I would be totally biohacking this kid and I realized that I'm learning so much more than I feel like I'm teaching. Just the curiosity and the wonder and being present and falling a million times, but still getting up, trying to understand and to be able to walk. And then I just want to say that I want to remind everybody that there's a version of yourself that's patiently waiting. And the goal is we show up every single day until we're introduced.

So Jim, that, that was such an epic ending, but I, I, I have to disagree with you.

Okay?

If you're a cheetah, do you really think it's patiently waiting?

Well, I don't think patience at least like standing by passively. For me, patience is maintaining a good attitude while we keep on thriving. Exactly, Exactly.

I'm just teasing you because sometimes disagreement is fun. But yeah, it is waiting. And it'll be there until you tap into it if you do. See you next time on the Human Upgrade Podcast.

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