Live From The 9th Annual Biohacking Conference: Biohacking the Red Planet with Vera Mulyani : 1065

You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey, formerly Bulletproof Radio. The thing that's weird. Thank you. The thing that's weird is that you actually are installing new abilities in your operating system. When you learn, as long as you actually learn them, but you learn them through feelings. Everything in your mind is indexed. The way you look it up as to how did it feel. And Jim's a master at creating feelings so that you can match them to the knowledge he gave you. Absolutely love that. I have a special guest for you. She's the CEO and founder of Astrobiome and Mars City Design. They're figuring out how to make people live on Mars. Why is that relevant to biohacking? Because you change the environment around you and inside of you to control your biology. Well, on Mars, you have to design all of the environment around you so that you can have control over your biology. And if you do it wrong, it doesn't work. So we have none other than Vera Molyani, who's a Marsitect. Vera, come on out.

Hey. Hey. Kanae, thank you for everything you're doing. Oh, of course.

Have a seat. Now, I asked her to wear her astronaut outfit today. And is this your normal daily?

Yeah. In reality, I just arrived from Mars and I still have the jet lag, but because of Astrobiome, I don't really have.

Nice.

Thank you for inviting me here. I'm really happy to be among you and deliver some stories and inspirations. Hopefully for the health community to empower us and keep the trajectory of human evolution, if not revolution, so we can be off world.

That's just a small goal.

Yeah, that's right.

A while ago I had a chance to ask the CEO of SpaceX. You've done all this work to harden electronics for deep space, even just to be in orbit, it's really hard. So a lot of stuff just fails. And what have you done to harden astronauts for deep space? Maybe building thicker spaceships is less effective than building humans who are more resilient. And she just looked at me in front of her and said, we've never thought of that before. Like what? You've changed the environment around you and inside of you so you can go to space in addition to other things. But you think about this because you know how to think like that. How did you earn the title of Mars Attack Marsitect?

So I think when I showed up, it was an opportunity to really participate in the space industry. But since I came nowhere from engineering or science background, I came in bringing the value that is complementary to the community. So I bring in the art and the vision, the creativity and I guess our architecture background. So we are more aware about, you know, if you want to send humans to Mars or even long term space environment, we better think of their mental health because that is associated to everything that is sensory, human feelings and the environment around us and what we have inside in terms of story background, the way we perceive our team to work with and to go through this very, extremely hard journey for so long, that is all affected by the way we incorporate the design into the mission. So if we don't think about that, if you don't have architects in your team, only specifically engineers, it's probably safe. But there are other components that would be missing to make sure that your crew can perform at their highest level.

When SpaceX first started putting stuff in orbit that was designed for humans, they ran into a problem because they were using toxic chemicals like our earlier discussion today, because it was designed by engineers who don't know biology. And they kept getting weird films, like plasticizer films on the inside of their things because the carpet was off gassing. What effect would that kind of thing have on astronauts in a sealed environment?

That's right. So we will have to plan everything. And I don't think any accessories are allowed before, you know, because they have all the mass calculation and everything is priced by the weight. So it's all very minimalistic but efficient. But that's also the challenge and that's also the art of really working with the people that provide this kind of environmental focus to really negotiate what is more important, something that will endure. So today, for example, if we think about extending the space flight so that we could go to the moon again or start living in space for hundreds of days to see, to challenge the body and see what kind of prevention program we have to design for the future, we need to think about these new other aspects that was not there before, because before it was all robotics.

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What do we have to do that's different to biohack humans to be in space?

I believe that we have to see our health from the macro and micro point of view. So we always talk about different symptoms and we keep going to different doctors for solving your teeth issues versus your foot issues. That's just a little example, but I think learning from the space environment impact to our astronauts. We understand that there might be solutions from the outside, but also in terms of like hardware for exercise, strengthening their muscles to pretend as if we have gravity in space. But it's also important to understand that biologically we can prevent these inflammations, for example, right. So, and also bone loss, ocular functions, all of that caused by the new microgravity environment that we're not used to. So I believe that the solution, top down solution, understanding where is the core focus that can create a domino effect to deliver nutrient but also create hormesis reaction as if you're sending Your system to do some exercise. With the right dose, it becomes stronger. So that's how we prevent fever.

It's almost like they should read smarter, not harder because there's like eight different ways to get a signal into the body that doesn't involve gravity so that you can get those results. You though focused on the astrobiome and the microbiome, which is really interesting. So what's different with your microbiome story versus what I've got going on right now?

Yes, so it looks like this and we really formulated it for very extreme challenges, very extreme environment. And that's why it's suitable for astronauts and daily professionals who have challenges like really extreme stress, extremely busy, you have no time to exercise, you have no time to sleep. It basically maximizes your system to model. This is like a model of an ideal metabolite complex, full spectrum that I don't believe today humans could do it manually. This is naturally 100% coming from fermented bacteria, super queen bacteria of centenarians. In Okinawa, that was called if I.

Open this, will I infect Earth's atmosphere?

Not yet.

Not yet. All right.

It will infect in a very good way. And that's for you too, Dave.

So little packets, unlabeled packets. What will they say at the border?

Yes, the label is underneath and I'm just kidding also. So it's really interesting. When I met the scientists, you know, I was giving the talk in Dubai World Expo and I was talking about Mars and architecture and human habitat, all this vision, my dream of architecture on another planet. And then once we finished, they showed up, they're just having four words. Vera, Mars, difficult, humans weak.

Wow, that's like Haiku almost.

That's right.

But that's the problem.

That's right. So what's interesting is like we have all kinds of hardware development solutions, even at NASA, esa, jaxa, all these amazing effort. But I think the microbiome is very difficult and complex metabolic pathways, stories that not everyone have access to. This team has been doing it for decades actually. And it's all inherited skills in fermenting the right bacteria, the highest level of microbiome health.

So there's a story and I'm kind of translating what I'm hearing and what I understand from your work and what we know is if Naveen was here talking about what you eat, you've read me talking about prebiotics, probiotics and postbiotics. So basically the food is a fermentation substrate for what happens in your gut. The probiotics in your microbiome are what's present, because if they're not present, they won't do it. And then the environment they're in changes what they do. And then what the bacteria poop out is what your body uses, like butyrate, propionic acid and all these things that are helpful. So one approach is change what they eat. Another approach is change the environment so you get some sunlight. Your gut bacteria have their own circadian rhythm even. So you stay up all night dancing. Your gut bacteria. Well, I wasn't supposed to be dancing. I was supposed to be forming films or whatever they do in space. Everything's all screwed up. So what you're basically saying is you collected the most perfect microbiome poop.

That's right.

And then you give that to us.

From the bacteria that already are trained from extreme environment on Earth and were able to somehow synchronize very fast. And the goal is to really train your gut microbiome population to these guys lead by example, basically so that you can recreate that model and get rid of all those other bad bacterias and population that basically will feel intimidated now that the good ones are majority.

Is that kind of a cool idea even when you're doing stem cells? Yeah, it is a really cool idea. It's different thinking. Stop down when you're doing stem cells. If you culture your stem cells, you culture them so only the strong ones survive. You stress them a little bit, so you get the idea of autophagy. So just kill off the weak ones and then you do strain after strain and pretty soon you have only the most robust ones and you put those back in. And you're doing this for essentially what would be happening in the human gut. But you're doing it in an extreme environment in a test tube, so that what comes back in is way stronger than what we would get. This is very conscious biohacking. I know that most bacterial strains that are used in probiotics are somewhat stress tested. Like they put them through a little bit of extra heat or oxygen or something. What are you doing different? I mean, is there xenon gas? Are you putting them in a big accelerator? I don't know, like blowtorches. What kind of stress are we talking about?

So not to like, basically it's the opposite, actually. We play music. There is shakuhachi flute, for example. If you go to the lab, it feels like you're in a baby chamber. You just want to take a nap. It's almost like how you make Kobe.

I feel like tulle may be like one of those really maybe a little bit of Metallica from the Easy Days.

So apparently they tried all kinds of songs and Shakuhachi is the one that reached the frequency. But there's not only that and also it's not so. But that's not.

You're putting them in a beautiful environment. I was looking for like Tom McDonald's.

Some kind of thing like that, like Fukushima.

No, but don't they need to be hard for space? I mean it's like a philosophical question about what do you want your gut bacteria to be ready for? For like pan flutes or for like the apocalypse? I want apocalypse bacteria. Personally I'm not expecting an apocalypse, but if one comes my way, I want them to come out of my mouth and like bite the person so I don't have to.

Yeah. So I think what's also interesting is not the way only we create the metabolite in the lab and stem cell it into your system. It's more about what you do with it after, what kind of activities you do after. I have different clients who have been trying. I have actually two people. This is Anastasia here, she works at NASA and I'm so proud to be able to contribute to her change of life, not just health. She lost 50 pounds and it wasn't even her goal in four months. And she sleeps better, she performs better. And there is Rafael here doing the video. He works for Space Force. And it's all kinds of extreme stress environment that otherwise you would be depressed. And I think the stress comes after as well to really what do you, what do your gut population do facing this kind of environment? Does it challenge you and make you over heal so that you're stronger or it dilapidates you and just make you rest and get depressed? So that I think is the difference between the top down solution that we want to employ for the kind of extreme environment and challenges versus trying to treat different symptoms with different solutions.

Are there actual bacteria or is this just postbiotics?

This is postbiotics. And yeah, it's only postbiotics. It's basically Hundreds more than 600 metabolites that are detected. And when you look at the metabolic pathway map, it appears in each cycle. So if you have issues in just one cycle, somehow it fulfill that missing box. Yes.

So guys, you've heard me talk about some postbiotics that are really important for anti aging. Spermidine is one where you couldn't buy it. So I imported a Japanese. Of course it's in there, right? A Japanese probiotic that you couldn't buy in the US And I kind of snuck it in and I was taking that before you could take spermidine. But the studies show you take spermidine and it causes your gut bacteria to make more spermidine. And the same thing is true of Urolithin A. If you have those formers in there, is there some of that in there? And 598 other metabolites that haven't yet been identified. So this is a broad spectrum thing. And ideally you take those, you've got bacteria like oh, this is present. I guess we should either grow some new bacteria, turn on some genes. How do they know to grow more of those?

Yeah, I think what's really interesting is because of this basic model from the co cultured different type of super bacteria that we collect, we have the constellation effects. It's not just one focus. You know, like if we take fumaric acid or butyric acid for like skin and liver. This is like the constellation of it. It's almost like when you take turmeric and black pepper together, it creates multiple feedback loop instead of just taking turmeric or black pepper. So imagine this is like hundreds of these metabolites doing constellation with the ones that you have already in your body. So the goal is in the long term you create the epigenetic shifts and really overwrite whatever potential diseases caused by inflammation or inherited by our parents, especially in the U.S. i'm so sorry, but the dietary.

Going back to our talk with ecos, right? Smear your house with things that kill everything. Maybe.

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There won't be a microbiome, right? So I have not had a chance to try this yet.

So I would love you to try. And it should be, how does it taste? Please try if you're okay.

We didn't plan this or script it. I'm just like, I'm intrigued by this. Would you consider adding probiotics too? Like genetically engineered ones maybe?

So what I hear is that once you take this, you can rely on your own system to absorb anything that you eat. Of course not donuts or. I mean they're probably good donuts, but I'm a graveltarian.

Okay.

Yeah. So this image for example, you know, we can only probably now cultivate microgreens for astronauts. But the goal is when you actually take just a little bit of food, it maximizes its nutrient and it goes really fast into your system because it's a postbiotic. So you skip all the other stages. And if you don't have a good microbiome, the first thing to do is to detox. Of course. And it helps if you take fiber and water a lot during that one week and then it becomes a lot more. You can feel it very, very quickly. How does it taste?

It's very Mild, it doesn't really taste like anything. It also mixes better than a lot of clumpy things I've seen.

Yeah. So for me, because when I was a kid I really loved the milk powder. We could only afford milk powder in Jakarta. So I like taking it just powder under the tongue. So it's transdermal.

It's very neutral now.

Thank you.

For the future that I'm envisioning, I could see this as a foundational thing. So you guys have all maybe listened to the human upgrade episode thousand where the world's first genetically introduced engineered prebiotic, one that gives you superpowers for 24 hours to metabolize alcohol so you don't get all the cancer causing effects of alcohol that's there. I had another guy here walk up and say we're working on a genetically engineered prebiotic that will lengthen your telomeres. So it's cool that this is happening at the biohacking conference. Right. But do you see a future where maybe you go in and you tweak your formula? So like okay, this is the radiation proof stuff and it's the ratio of these three things. Is that where we're going?

So the way we are designing it right now is really to empower you, not because we will be dependent on this. Right. So it really is coming from the inside. And whatever you do with it, yes, you can mix it with other beverage and food. Actually we're looking for partners to deliver that together. And I think it's going to be really important to prepare the human mission. And our climate is becoming more and more extreme. Right. So just the pandemic already killed a lot of us and the, the effect, long term effect of the pandemic has been devastating for people who are influencing as well. Like some of the military people have been taking this and they could see their performance on stage. Their way to focus their brain fog is gone since COVID but they perform better than before COVID So it was really satisfying to see the effect that way. So yeah, anti radiation, sure. And microgravity enhancer probably. So you know, NASA has a system to train the astronauts into microgravity through diving and also head down rest. You can't really do it too much, but it's really interesting to get the data for your bone density for example. And yeah, osteopenia, osteoporosis type of research that can use this. Definitely.

Vera, thanks for thinking differently about the gut and giving us enough superpowers to go to Mars. Totally appreciate the way you're approaching this, guys. Give it up for Vera.

Thank you so much, Dave. Thank you. Thank you so much, Vera. Thank you.

Yeah, just to be clear, I'm keeping this.

You can have some more if you need. And our booth is right there.

Beautiful. Thank you.

A Human Upgrade Formerly, Bulletproof Radio was created and is hosted by Dave Asprey. The information contained in this podcast is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended for the purposes of diagnosing, treating, curing, or preventing any disease. Before using any products referenced on the podcast, consult with your healthcare provider carefully, read all labels and heed all directions and cautions that accompany the products. Information found or received through the podcast should not be used in place of a consultation or advice from a healthcare provider. If you suspect you have a medical problem or should you have any healthcare questions, please promptly call or see your healthcare provider provider. This podcast, including Dave Asprey and the producers, disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information contained herein. Opinions of guests are their own and this podcast does not endorse or accept responsibility for statements made by guests. This podcast does not make any representations or warranties about guest qualifications or credibility. This podcast may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products or services. Individuals on this podcast may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to herein. This podcast is owned by Bulletproof Media.