Sexual Mastery with the World’s Top Experts: Unlocking Pleasure, Performance, and Intimacy : 1204

That's really what my work is trying to gear people toward is having these life changing, cataclysmic, therapeutic, deep, powerful, even psychedelic type experiences that really change your life. If it's not changing your life, you're doing it wrong. It's because this has the power to really rebirth. This is the procreative energy of the universe that we literally have at our fingertips, every single one of us.

You're listening to the human upgrade with Dave Asprey. If a woman was having orgasm six months ago and she's not having them now, is the first step to just try five different partners to see if one of them is better than the other?

No, I actually, I knew you were.

Going to say no. So what else do you change besides your murder?

Would that be if that was the case? Like, this is like a babe, Sorry, I gotta go sleep with five other people right now and get back to you. But sometimes for one person, it could be. So let's break it down for one woman. Perhaps she just hasn't, you know, she's kind of developed this point with her partner where they're not communicating anymore, which is one of the pillars that she actually has resentments that have built. Maybe she's even gotten to the point of contempt. They don't get along, resent, she's resentful, they haven't been able to communicate about their sex life. And so she just feels unseen and maybe even a little unsafe with a partner who hasn't been taking care of her emotional needs. And so she felt like once she started to have these conversations with her partner, maybe they went into therapy again, she started to feel safe, and then her orgasms were coming back. That could be one. For another woman, it could be because she went on an antidepressant or she's been on the birth control pill, she was on an SSRI or a birth control pill, and she realized that the confluence of those or the combination of those, she. She was no longer able to have an orgasm. Right. That's why. And she, and then this might seem to some people, they be like, well, of course, I can't tell you how many women are shocked that it's because of the birth control or because of a medication. Now, maybe when they first started taking the medication, their orgasms were fine, but six months to a year later, it's not. So again, we're all really, really different about how medications impact us.

Yeah.

So. And another thing could be because we're not moving our bodies, right. For another woman, it's like she stopped working out because it's blood flow. So arousal in our genitals comes from blood flow. It comes from moving our bodies, from exercising. And so same with erections. If I am not moving my body, I'm not eating healthy, I'm feeling just not, you know, and also to go to the other pillar of self, acceptance, I'm not accepting my body. I've gained weight. I feel really insecure about it. On top of me, not moving and exercising and having any cardiovascular health that could also build my ability for my clitoris and my vulva, my pelvic floor, to get aroused, turned on and engorged with blood enough to have an orgasm, I could keep going. That's some of them.

I've been compiling a list of all the evils of chemical hormonal birth control for women, and inability to orgasm wasn't on my list. We have increases in cancer, heart disease, inability to select a mate who's compatible with you, depression, other things like that. So what are the other reasons that women might want to choose a different form of birth control than the pill?

Oh, my God, that's so many. Those are some of the great reasons, too.

Yeah.

You're referring to the study that I talk about in my book about women who pick a different mate when they're on the birth control pill than when they're off the mate. I think that a lot of women who go on antidepressants also find that they're more prone to developing depression and anxiety soon after they go on it. After you're on a birth control for a while, it is going to impact your hormones. And for many, many women, when they go off of it, it takes a lot of work, time and efforts ever to learn to balance your hormones again in a way that works for you through nutrition, exercise, seeing experts, a lot of things that our health insurance does not cover. And I don't think there's enough experts out there yet or who you can find or that the experts that are accessible to people in different parts of the country or different parts of the world that could find that they could find a hormone specialist that could help them with their specific case, because we're all different, unfortunately. The birth control pill for many are going to wreak havoc on their hormones for the rest of their lives. But it's going to look different on everybody. So you really have to do some work. So I think that's part of it. And that would be their ability to get. Yeah. Turned on around to change their diet. Their hair can fall out Their nails, their hair, their skin. I mean, there's just. Because the other thing I find is that so many young women don't even question it. I know that I did it. When I went on the pill, I was like, this is what you do. It didn't even feel like it was a drug. It didn't feel like it was anything that mattered. It feel like it was sort of a. A. A inconsequential pill that I took every day that just, you know, even when someone say, are you on a medication? I would forget to say, oh, the pill. Right. We didn't realize there were so many consequences, but now we do. So absolutely, for women. And if they're telling themselves, oh, I won't remember, or no one wants to wear condoms, you know, I would look at that again. I think that a lot of men have gotten off saying that condoms are uncomfortable, or it feels like I'm wearing a raincoat, you know? Well, we're taking birth control pills and we, like, wanna, like. We feel anxious, depressed, and we can't choose an acceptable mate. If you are still gonna have an orgasm, but feels like you're wearing a raincoat for five minutes on your penis, like, that's really small price to pay. For women who are experiencing years of trauma after being on the pill, there's.

Another dark side to the pill that we don't talk about very much, and it has to do with evolutionary biology. When men are in a world where there are no ovulating women, our operating system picks up on that, and then there's no reason for living. So our motivation to go out and do stuff that matters goes down when all the women around us are on chemicals that interfere with their natural cycles. So there's a signal to make the world a better place that comes from women that men are very responsive to. And it's largely invisible to us, but it affects us. So if there's problems in a relationship and a woman's on a birth control pill, as opposed to another way of protecting herself from unwanted pregnancy, it can have effects on the guy too. They're just subtle effects. Right. And his arousal will be less than it would normally be because, well, you don't smell like a fertile woman. That's. That's just how we're wired.

It's so true. I love that we're talking about this because I'd love for men to get on board with this too and say, babe, maybe it's not the best choice for you to go on the pill right now. I'd Be willing to, you know, figure out other ways that we could work together on it because it should be a collaborative effort.

Oh yeah.

Women are just taking the brunt of it. Like to have a partner who's educated around this and saying like, maybe not the best choice. Let's find some other ways is such a better way to go.

It's one of the most loving things you can do as a man is like, hey, let's take care of your health and let's make sure that you don't get pregnant unless we both decide that's, you know, the right thing for us because it's not worth sacrificing your long term health for that. It just isn't. Okay, the other thing. And since you were last on the show, for the last almost couple years now, I've been single, I'm actively dating. And so I've noticed that many people are just programmed to not either not know what they want in bed or to secretly want it, but just not ask for it. Why is it that men and women, the answer may be different for each one. Why don't they feel comfortable asking for what they want?

Such a good question. Dave. I gotta tell you that I, when you started out this conversation about telling me what by asking me what's changed? And I. My list was pretty short. What stayed the same is women and men often do not know. They don't feel safe. They, it feels like it's. I can give you the overview and then break it down. There's still taboo around it. They don't feel safe. They haven't explored. They'd never actually been with a partner who really was invested in their pleasure and their own and didn't know the right questions to ask. We don't have a lot of experience being in healthy sexual relationships. Having conscious sexuality is a practice that I'm. Is what I'm kind of encour. What I encourage people to do in smart sex is to actually take a look at your own sexual history and understand who you are as a sexual being so you can communicate it. So to break that down, I think for women, I think there's different reasons, but we all don't share it. And I can tell you from my experience, when I started out, I remember that partners would say to me like in my 20s, they'd say, hey, does that feel good? Do you like what I'm doing right now? And I would just say, yeah, whatever you're doing feels great. Yes, it's great. Because I knew that number one, I'm not going to say it doesn't feel good. I guess it feels good. And number two, if they said, what else do you want? Like, if this doesn't feel good, I had no idea. Because we're not giving a menu. We're not given a menu of what. What's on the. Like what we could even ask for.

It would be a very long menu.

Yeah, exactly.

It's a lot of things people want.

It's a lot of things that people want. But we don't know sometime know that either we don't know it because we haven't had experience, or we know it and we don't know how to ask for it. So a lot of my book is giving scripts. Like the whole communication chapter is like, literally I break down how to ask for something you want, how to give difficult feedback, how you know, because people just. Again, it's so terrifying to bring up sex for a lot of reasons.

Shame.

Taboo. We don't have experience doing it. It's not normalized. We're afraid that someone's going to judge us or we're going to hurt our partner's feelings. So we just stay mute and silently suffer through bad sex. Or we learn and we say, okay, you know what, my pleasure is important and I'm going to figure out what feels good to me and I'm going to do it through masturbation. I'm going to do some research. I'm going to find partners who have a growth mindset around sex, who are actually really engaged and excited so we can figure it out together and then we can learn and explore and play. But to. To your point, we're not there yet. I mean, hopefully my listeners of all these years have gotten there and some people I've dated, but I found the same thing too. I was single for a long time and most people don't really know or they don't know how to ask for it again because it's not normalized. And a lot of women, and I was doing this myself too, just they fake their pleasure and they're more performative.

You were faking your pleasure? Seriously?

Yeah, I.

You're a very bad girl.

I know pleasure. I faked orgasms. That's why I got into this business. I was like, I do not want to fake orgasms anymore.

Yeah, just PSA for women. If you fake your orgasm, we'll keep doing whatever we were doing. So that's a really bad way to give us feedback.

It's a really bad way to give us feedback. But to go to your Question why you asked me why? Why aren't we talking about why aren't we telling you're out with Dave Aspie on a date. Like he wants to please you. Believe me, I know this guy.

Tell them.

But they're just in their head. They go, well, I actually don't know how to get the words out. What if he doesn't really want to please me? What if he judges me and thinks I'm a freak or what? Not you, any man. Right. But I think again, we have to have experience knowing that if someone's asking you, they give them the benefit of the doubt. They actually want to please you. But we don't see that in movies. We don't see that in porn. We don't. We really don't. So we don't have a lot of examples of it yet, even in 2023.

So I want you to criticize what I do. If a date's going in that direction. I literally say I'm open to doing all kinds of stuff. Like, what is your hottest fantasy that you've never asked for? I want to try that.

Love it.

All right, so pros and cons.

Okay, well, first, I think that's hot, but okay. How well do you know the person when you're asking them that?

Usually well enough. I'm probably not going to do that on a first date.

Okay.

It's not like the first. You're not like in the car picking them up, but you're like, okay, yeah.

I'm not the typical pick up a random person out of bar kind of guy. Like, I want someone who's okay.

I think it's a great question to ask. However, I think that there's. You're going from like zero to hottest fantasy. And I would maybe do. I would maybe scale it back a little and just start to talk about sex in general. So what has been some hot turn ons for you? What's the most memorable sex you've ever had? Or like, you don't have to say the partner's name or what? What's a. What's a fantasy that you once had that actually came to reality? And if you've been with them for a while, you could say, what's the most memorable time we had sex? Can you remember the moment that you were the most turned on with me? And then from there they're comfortable sharing with you already and then you share something with yourself, perhaps about your sexual journey that you've been on and what you've been learning about yourself. But I think Sometimes for the majority of women out there that I know, that I've experienced and that I see and date even people that you think would be way more experienced in this area, that saying that to someone and have her being like this is so personal. I've never told anyone. I know you say, dave, you're going to be down with it, but this makes me a freak or this makes me not normal. I think that they probably shut down and I mean, I don't know. What have you found?

I don't think anyone shut down. But there's something that guys can do to make a woman feel safe. And it's not an action, it's actually a, a physiological state. Like it's, it's a thing you do with your heart. I've actually been teaching this to a few people and I'm actually going to talk about this at the conference. But you can, you can create a feeling of safety that makes your partner feel like they can talk about it without being judged. And I don't think it's a verbal thing you do. I think it's like a way you hold yourself. It's, it's like a feeling in your chest.

Is it like a breath to do like eye contact, breath work?

I, I mean there's, there's grounding and like co breathing practices and you know, making a sound on your exhale and things like that. Like, I've taken courses on that, but I think it's actually something that you do to turn off as a, as a man, to turn off your own fight or flight response so you're actually physically relaxed when you ask it. Instead of like, oh my God, what's she gonna say? You're like, she can say whatever she wants to say and it's okay. And you have this, just this deep calmness and that's usually when they're like, wow, I've never talked about this before, but you know, that would be really spicy. Okay, maybe, maybe we can do that sometime. Yeah, but. And then to not be, not be judgmental with whatever they say and just say, well, that's either I've never done that or, you know, that is fun. Right?

Whatever.

Whatever it is. Right?

Well, I love that you're setting the right tone and setting in place to have these conversations, the right feeling that you're able to elicit that feeling. I think it's so important for us to feel safe and then also how we communicate it without judgment and with curiosity and compassion rather than, wow, you feel that thing or a look of horror on your face, whatever. Which obviously if you're asking that question, you're probably not leading with a look of horror on your face, but you'd be surprised. A lot of us are wired. Not you, Dave. You're doing a lot of work. I love that you're teaching how to be in a. How to be in a grounded, accepted, accepted space. And how to calm your nervous system I think is everything you know, especially like not especially, I think all the time, but definitely sexually. I think I talk a lot about that in the book too, about just whether it's a few minutes of eye gazing and 10 deep breaths together is a game changer for people who especially disassociate during sex can have orgasms going off into their mind. But to have more connective conscious sex, I think is, is what we're both talking about.

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I don't want it to be too graphic or anything, but I was with a person I dated for a little while and she would dissociate and every time I'd see her dissociate, I'd like pause and be like, hey, can you come back? Right? And it was remarkable because it felt like it was actually really healing to be able to like no, no, it's safe to be in your body right now. Like we'll slow down, we'll do whatever, but I think you have to be really attenuated to your partner's state to do that. What is the best way for men or women to be attenuated to their partner's state so they can stay present during sex?

There's nothing like that though to be with a partner where you actually feel seen and they see you leave the, the conversation or the room or whatever in any, in any case. But I, I think the best way to do it just like basic principles of like even tantra I think which can be very overwhelming to people because they think they have to have like an 18 hour orgasm or it takes a whole process. But the main principle is just really just being grounded with somebody starting with a few minutes of eye contact, maybe sitting facing each other in like that satsum position. Even if it's a, you know, they're, they're your partner's in the ground, the masculine sort of in the grounded space and wrapping your legs around them. And this could just be like a five, ten minute thing where you're looking to each other's eyes and the times you'll find that when you're doing that your breath can sort of sync up but if not, just start to bring your breath into it. Just some deep breathing where you're actually feeling each other's chests rise and fall and you know, you're looking, you're breathing without the expectation of anything, just connection. And for many you'll find that as is a practice and as you do that, that the disassociate or the worries that you're having or the concerns do fall away, and you feel much more not only connected to your partner, but then you'll start to feel the sexual energy and the connection circulating in your bodies. If you really spend some time cultivating this again, I don't know that it happens right away. I've been. I've studied this and been at a lot of different retreats with people I had never known. And then I get into this exercise with them, and I'm like, oh, I'm feeling your energy. Right. So I think it's available to all of us, which is so great that sexual energy is the creative life force. And learning to tap into that, I really do think is the. Is the. Is one of the keys to a lot of the sex that we're all craving, but we just don't know how. So that's what I recommend.

I love it that you talked about sinking breaths, and that's something that either partner can do. Just be aware of your other of your partner's breath and just kind of match your exhale and inhale with theirs. That really does line things up in a way. And where do they teach that? I've seen that in various courses I've taken and whatnot. But outside of some relatively esoteric stuff, you don't. You don't learn that in high school sex ed. They never tell you that, but it seems like that's table stakes if you want to connect with someone, especially if it's someone relatively new to you. But even if you've been with someone for a long time, syncing up like that seems to just magically open the gates, so to speak, and then things just progress a lot more easily.

Yeah, it's true. And it is kind of magic. And I want to just give everyone this little tip that. And this is something that I had to learn as well, that there's a lot of times that sex starts happening, right. And we're kind of like, it sounds like maybe someone you dated where they disassociate, not because of you. It's a habit to disassociate, but it's okay to stop sex. Like, I think that we get especially. I'm gonna speak for women sometimes too, that we get in this point if we're with a man, that if sex gets started, we can't stop it. They've got the erection, we gotta keep going. We gotta please them. It's more performative. But I love to encourage people to think of sex as not A linear activity where, like, we kiss, we make out, the penis goes in vagina, we explode. Like, it's so not what sex can be. So I want to give people permission to say, if sex gets going sometimes, I'll do this. I'll say to my partner, I'll say, like, you know, I. It's moving too fast or it's not what I went. Let's reset for a minute, and then we'll stop, and then we'll breathe in the middle of it, and then we'll just stop and breathe for 5 seconds or 10 seconds or a minute. And like you said, it immediately grounds us, resets us, and then we start again. Our sexuality didn't go anywhere. We're not leaving to go out to dinner. Like, it's still there. It's contained, but now it's controlled, and we're much more connected. So I don't be able to know that this is available to you now, the ability to connect to somebody and to reset and get out of a. A place in sex that doesn't feel as settling to you in a moment.

It also helps because if you do that, you'll probably have sex for a lot longer, which can be a really good thing.

That's true, too. So I think we rush through sex sometimes, oftentimes because the male orgasm, the female orgasm, is on different time clocks. So I think if you are a pleaser or a woman who's more performative when it comes to sex, which is more common than I like to, which is, again, one of my missions on the planet is to get to be less so. But it's going. It's going. His orgasm's escalating. He's about to go over. Like, I. There's no room for mine, for me to feel mine. So finding partners who understand this, learning to work together on both of your pleasure is key.

Well, I mean, I have a small sample size here, being a guy, but it feels like most of the time guys can get there. So, like, focusing on that is probably not where you want to focus first, because that's likely to happen.

Exactly, Dave. There's something called the orgasm gap, and I work tirelessly to close it. But the orgasm gap is twofold. All men are going to orgasm in most situations, like 99.9% they're going to orgasm. We don't need to worry about their orgasm. But for people with vulvas, it can take anywhere between 20 minutes to 40 minutes, and men can take between six and nine minutes. So there is the gap in time so you have to bridge that gap so we can all get there. But then there's also the gap in that men have them and women don't. Like, we don't need to worry about that. Right. But again, this is education. This is why I'm glad we're talking about this. Because a lot of people don't really know that. To us, we know this. But for other people, women just feel very inadequate and something's wrong with them because it's taking too long and are we going to get there? And since I didn't know how to ask my partner for what I wanted, he's not doing the thing that I need and you know, becomes messy.

About eight years ago, I published the Taoist equations for male ejaculation. And I tried to disprove them because I thought it sounded stupid. And so the Daoists are looking at longevity. They wanted to live forever. They were immortality seeking. And they looked at sexual energy as something that you can waste or you can cultivate. And they look at that as part of longevity. It's different than tantra, even though there's an overlap between the two. And the equation was age in years -7 divided by 4. So they said, figure out that number. It might be seven days or five days or 12 days. And you only ejaculate that often or less, but not more. And I thought, that's the biggest bunch of crap I've ever heard. So I'm going to disprove it. So for a year I tracked my orgasm and ejaculation and sex and masturbation frequency. And I plotted it against my daily happiness. Like, how much do I like my life? And I published that in, I think in Game Changers, the book. And it's kind of an embarrassing graph. It's like, well, here I was going to do the 30 day. They say if you want to live forever, just ejaculate once every 30 days. Keep your orgasm as a man to under an hour. Like impossible and stupid. But I'll give it a try. So going 30 days was a lot of work. And so there's on the graph, it's like, oh, you know, 22 days in, oops. Okay, let's start that experiment over again. But what I found was every time there's an ejaculation, the next day there's an, an ejaculation hangover because your testosterone drops precipitously. And this is why will you still respect me in the morning and all of that. And a lot of guys know what I'M talking about. So I've. Since that time, I don't ejaculate all the time when I have sex because it actually affects my physical performance and my well being and just how, how much I like my life. So there are women, like I warn them, I'm like, you know, the odds are I probably won't Dr. But don't worry, I'm still having orgasms like this. This is good. But it, it really makes some people feel insecure. By the way, I sound like I'm sleeping around a lot. I'm not, I'm just dating.

But yeah, people. But most people don't really understand the Taoist principles of circulating the energy that you can have an orgasm without ejaculation, that you can orgasm in your body. I think that that's. And for women who are measuring their, their success, successual performance on their man's pleasure, I get why that could be a little bit confusing. Women might go to a place of I didn't turn you on enough. What did I do wrong? You know what I mean? They might not really. I'm sure you explain it in a way that they can or they understand.

I do my best. I mean, so far I don't think I've, you know, created any trauma, lack of ejaculation. But hey, who knows, right?

Yeah, no, I think, But I love that practice that's definitely been around. I think we've actually talked about this before too. We did at dinner. Yeah. But I, I do think, and I have a little bit about it in the book because people are always curious about it, but I think that for men hearing this, they think I could never not ejaculate during sex. What would be the point? I don't really understand it. But what you're saying is you really did track your. What was it? Your happiness, as you used the word happy.

Your contentment every day. I just had a score from like 1 to 10. Like how much do I like my life? Like a combination of, you know, what I'm doing as an entrepreneur, as a father, as a husband, you know, basically just how much do I like my life? And it was really weird that it would go from, you know, a seven or an eight or nine down to like a three or four for a day or two. And what I found was, that's so weird. But I have a lot more sex when I don't ejaculate. It's like, oh, can we go again later today? But if you ejaculate, you're just not interested For a day or two. Right? So it turns out intimacy went up as ejaculations went down. And you're doubtlessly aware of all the research that orgasms for women do not follow these rules. It doesn't deplete women the way it depletes men, Right?

It's not a deplete. It is true. No, for women it can be. It can be regenerative, you know, for sure. Can be, you know, life enhancing, nourishing. And I think I always get this, what is it like, women can have like 326orgasms a day, like according to Taoist principles, or we can have in a week. There's a lot more that we can have. But for men, it is less so. So finding partners who can kind of work with you on this is. Is going to be. Is an interesting place. Place to be in the world.

I want to know the differences for tapping into sexual energy for men and women. And I want to go with how do women do it? But then how do men do it? And. Or is it the same?

All right, well, there's a few things to address there. I mean, look, in my own personal experiences, before I read anything about sex or really, you know, everything I had in my own experiences, these sense of sex being this portal for transformation, right? Like this idea, like there were other states of consciousness that would help to me. I would emerge out of my sexual encounters feeling really inspired and more of myself. I used to use the term self realization. That's how I felt. It's like these parts of me that have been superimposed culturally that weren't really me, that I'd adapted over the years fell away and I became more of my true self. And so I already had this instinctive sense that sex was much more powerful than we were being led to believe. And then when I read about Taoism and Tantra, those things just echoed the experiences that I'd already been having. And then years later, I was, yeah, definitely tickled to find that lone chapter 10 in Napoleon's what is it? Think and Grow Rich book about sex and transmutation. It's written in 1927, right? So he's interviewing all of these moguls about how they can become their. Their pat. Patterns of success to try to give a model to other people. And then he has this all important chapter about sex and using your sexual energy as a creative power source. And so all of these things have echoed the, as I said, what was opening up to me through my own personal experiences and then through my own Studies, especially in Taoist philosophy, using more techniques like, say, harnessing breath work. So look, the big barometric question that I ask people is, does sex leave you feeling energized, revitalized, transformed, and like it changed your life? And if the answer is no, then you're doing it wrong. And that's not a moral judgment as it is as much as it is to say that there's a way of having sex that gives you energy or takes away energy, right? That leaves you feeling like you want to go and run a marathon. And that's the big question I give to men, right? Is if you're practicing breathing techniques and recirculating your sexual energy after you have sex, whether you orgasm or not. Because I think there's still ways that men can have orgasms. But if they're recirculating that energy, they'll find a very minimal loss of energy that they want to go to the gym. They literally want to go for a run rather than passing out, which tends to be the default action that happens after a man has had an orgasm. And then, so in that whole tantra daoist philosophy, the concept is that men lose a lot of energy through ejaculation. And what I've seen and witnessed in my own relationships and with clients over the years is that if men are taught to breathe and recirculate that energy, then they can, even if they have an orgasm, they will lose a minimum of energy, right? So there would be a question about whether, if you're really deeply practicing this recirculation and breath work, whether you are truly losing energy. I suspect you still are, but much less than if you weren't practicing this conscious breathing. And then for women, there's a concept that women lose a lot of that energy, not so much through orgasms and unconscious sex, but through menstruation, through unconscious menstruation. And so there's techniques to have women recirculate that energy in the same way. So rather than just dumping out that energy the way, say, men do at orgasm, and many women do through their menstruation, and they feel the similar symptoms. They feel tired and low energy and even depressed and, like, immobilized, that's a symptom that we've lost energy, right? And so I'm all about this barometer. What's giving us energy or taking away energy. And then there's techniques for both men and women to revive themselves and become revitalized through these experiences. And even women, I would say, during sex, can practice the Same kinds of breathing techniques and gain more energy. And so people will say to me, or they have this assumption that, you know, my favorite thing about sex is, like, the pleasure and the orgasm. Like, well, that's great, but I'm really into the self realization, and I'm really into the creative power and flow that I get. Like, I'll have sex and run to my computer. You know, I noticed this early on, like, I would just be so inspired with all these ideas that I would run to my computer. Computer and start writing them all down. And that's, again, that's a barometer for me of whether we're taking this energy and then tapping into it, harvesting this energy as a power source. And then we have it available to channel into every other aspect of our lives. And that affects everything from our intimate relationship, our health, our body weight, our mental capacity, our creativity, our finances. I found that there's a direct correlation to how tapped in people are to their sexual energy and every other aspect of our lives. And yet most people don't make that connection because they've been taught there is no connection. Right. Your sex life kind of exists in isolation in some remote port part of your life.

I remember I was riding in the back of an Uber back when you could do that, when things were normal. And Guy's like, oh, you're Dave. And so he's like, tell me all the entrepreneur tricks. And he's like, I'm trying to, you know, got my side hustle. I'm doing all this stuff. Clearly, he was a Gary V. A Gary Vee follower as well, I think. And he's like, what would your one piece of advice be? And I just look at him. I'm like, stop looking at porn. And he goes, what? Like, how did you know? I'm like, I don't know. That was just, like, what seemed to be the right thing to say. And he's like, yeah, I noticed. I'm spending a lot of energy on that. And he's like, I know it's taken away from my business. And I've had other people who saw my talks about male ejaculation and how there's a hangover at least if you're doing it wrong. And they're like, okay. So I decided I wasn't gonna ejaculate for a while, and I started two companies and I got a $30,000 raise. And, like, all these stories would come out, which it's interesting because you go back to Napoleon, Neil. He interviewed dudes, and he was talking about it really from a male perspective and this, the, oh, you know, don't have an orgasm every time. It doesn't seem like that's the right rule for women, but for guys it's like, okay, maybe you have an energetic orgasm, but you don't actually ejaculate and things like that. So, so I'm wondering, okay, the Taoists say a woman walks away undiminished, but they don't say a guy does. So let's focus on women. What gives a woman the most energy after sex? Like what do you do to make that happen?

I'd say breathing is a huge piece of that. So we know we lose, we recirculate energy through the breath. Breath is a carrier of prana, of qi, of energy. And so that most people tend to breathe really shallow, hold the breath, tighten up when they're sexually intimate, right? And so they're curtailing the flow of that energy and then they usually just eject it out of themselves. And so that deep steady four count inhale, four count exhale really helps to move and recirculate the sexual energy in the body. And then it naturally goes to where it needs to go for healing and rejuvenation in our system. For women, I would say the breathing then is an important piece of that. And then I would also say seeking out vaginal orgasms versus clitoral orgasms. So the equivalent to a typical penile orgasm of build up, get to a peak, have these contractions and then decline and decline in energy is a typical clitoral orgasm as well. There's a build, there's a peak, there's contractions and then there's a decline of energy. Right. Where often women will use that type of orgasm in the same manner as stress relief or to help them go to sleep, right. Which to me is the lowest form of using that orgasm. Again, not from a moral judgment place, but what's giving us energy and what's removing energy. So for women, seeking out these deeper vaginal orgasms opens them up to much more cataclysmic, deep, powerful, transformative, cosmic places within themselves. And so these orgasms, I say are the life changing orgasms for women. This is what really helps them to self realize, tap into their true potential. These orgasms like at the cervix. In Taoist sexual reflexology, they mapped out reflexology points in the vagina and the vulva and in the penis. And the cervix is considered to be the heart point for women. And there's an association with the vagus nerve Going all the way up to the crown chakra. And so in achieving these orgasms, they are actually opening up in this very deep, cosmic, spiritual, rebirth level, right? La petite More the little death. The little death and rebirth. And this again really reflected my own experiences of what these orgasms were about. So my very first orgasm personally was a cervical orgasm. And then later on, a few years later, I had a clitoral orgasm. Again, these were all through my own exploration, not because I knew what I was looking for. It was just searching and exploring and finding them. And then in having clitoral orgasms, I was kind of like, well, that's fun, but like, whatever, that's nothing like what the vagina is all about, right? Like, let them eat clit is what I say, right? But the good stuff is all in the vagina. The clitoris is literally all the tip of the iceberg at 90% of the power of female sexuality is in the vagina. So I would say that the direction for women that I recommend is heading into the vagina and doing that exploration there because there's so much rich territory to be explored. And then I often say that women can save thousands of dollars and hours in therapy by having vaginal orgasms. Like once they have them, they don't go back. And then another thing to know is that every woman can. This is the anomaly guarantee and everything that we've talked about, men being able to, you know, have sex for eight hours without having an orgasm or learn how to separate orgasm from ejaculation, or women having G spot orgasms, cervical orgasms, ejaculating across the room. I guarantee that every single person can do these things. They just need to know that they can and then learn the steps to getting there and remove any kind of blockages that are impeding the natural fluid flow of that innate energy that we all have.

All right, guys and women. Kimanami.com Dave is where she teaches you how to do all that stuff. That's a pretty strong pitch. I, I have to say, where you're just saying it's a guarantee. So I appreciate the integrity in that. And I can't say that I've gone through the whole program, but I do know the things you are saying are true because, well, you know, I have experienced many of the things you're speaking of and I'm actually going to go through the whole program because how could I not after. After interviewing you? So I, I've also read a study, I think I even referenced it in a blog post once, that something like 20% of people have deep spiritual experiences during sex. But their partners may not know it because, you know, you, you just see them laying there twitching or moaning or doing whatever it is they do, right? And, but you know, in their inner, in their mind, you're there, they're meeting God, they're, you know, seeing past lives, they're doing all kinds of stuff. Do you believe that 20% number?

I would be thrilled to think that that was true, right? That 20% of people were actually having spiritual experiences through their sexual lives. I would love that to be true. And then of course, would love to see that number go up higher. Like for me, spirituality and sexuality are very similar. You know, this idea of opening and surrendering and trying to put the little self aside to open up to this divine channel and flow of energy. There's massive similarities. And then that's, that's really what I, my work is trying to gear people toward is having these life changing, cataclysmic, therapeutic, deep, powerful, even, you know, psychedelic type experiences that really change your life. Like I said, if it's not changing your life, you're doing it wrong. It's because this has the power to really rebirth, right? This is the procreative energy of the universe that we literally have at our fingertips. Every single one of us. We just have been, it's been obscured, it's been distorted. All of the censorship and the misinformation about sex has removed that knowledge from people and that even awareness from people. And the high amount of trauma that most people sustain in some way, right, obscures and dissociates them from that energy. So in the ideal world, yes, I think that these Twains do meet very beautifully and that in the highest level of those experiences, they are spiritual, they are transformative, they do make people feel like they've been reborn. And truthfully, like my early experiences, feeling like that have been why I do what I do today. Because I had that, that was the benchmark for me of this is what sex is. It's not about just blowing out or jerking off or, you know, having a brief moment of pleasure. It was like, no, I felt like I was being reborn as who I really am through my sex life, sex life experiences. And so that's really why I do. What I do is to show people what this is, what's actually possible, what you've experienced and what you've been told is myth and misinformation. And I think deliberate censorship, a deliberate obscuring of the power of sex. Here's what you really can do. Here's what's really possible.

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Who would deliberately do that and why?

Well, I mean I think one of the biggest places we've seen that happen is in religion is this distortion of sexual energy. Some, some paths have a positive viewpoint that within a high sacred marriage, sexuality is a very powerful tool and avenue and then other paths you know are more discouraging of that are distorted. But I think that, I guess if there's any kind of naive, nefarious powers that be that are interested in suppressing power and empowerment within a population, then targeting sexuality is a big place to do that. And if we think about historically, when people go in and they conquer other countries or, you know, areas, one of the big things that they do is they. They rape, they pillage, they abuse children. Like they're putting a deliberate taint and smear on the sexual expression of that culture. And I think that is deliberate. Like, yes, it's about whatever, taking over their genetic lineage. But I think there's a deeper purpose in annihilating that expression. Right. That life force, pure creative energy within people.

That's. That's pretty heavy. Do you think that the world's going to recover from, you know, hundreds of generations of that kind of behavior? Are you hopeful?

I am hopeful. I mean, really, like. And even in my time in doing this, right, which is several decades, but more publicly doing it, well, I guess probably when the Internet became more of a thing, right? And then watching what. Even the evolution since then, like. Like, I often say there's, you know, before 50 shades of gray and after 50 shades of gray, and I'm promoting that book as like, a great work of art or literature that people should run out and read. But it was this really important milestone in terms of sexuality and female sexuality being acknowledged as this massive probably marketplace, you know, which is what really brought it into the forefront, is how many million, hundreds of millions of copies that book sold. But the women who are clutching that book, you know, on the subway, getting wet, reading this book, coming home to their partners and being like, can you do these things? Things to me, like, this is what I really want. And I feel like that before that time, there was still a lot more restriction around female sexuality or sexuality in general. And then after that came out and made this, you know, massive explosion all over the world, there was a real shift in my view of, like, what was acceptable and open and acknowledging, you know, again, probably financially motivated, which was like the. The certain gatekeepers would open the gate to be like, well, there's a market here. But, you know, overall, perhaps even women just reclaiming and recognizing that in themselves, like, reading these things and being like, yeah, because for women, you know, the big block, I would say the big universal block is Madonna whore. You're either a virgin or you're a slut. And there isn't really this happy medium territory to exist in of a healthy Sexually voracious woman.

Right.

And so I think that book or gave women permission. Right. I mean, it had to be like that dynamic of dominant submissive, though, is sort of like, I'm telling you, you have to do this. Okay, well, if you tell me I have to do it, then maybe I won't feel so bad or so judged about doing it, but whatever, right? It gave them an opening to be able to claim some of those desires.

I always thought Secretary was a much better movie than 50 Shades of Fire.

Yes, I agree. I thought it was very beautifully done and captured that ethos much. To be honest, I never read the book. Any of the 50 Shades books or movies. I picked up a book and tried to read it, and I just couldn't. But I know, you know, the general tenor of the book, and I'm, you know, I'm glad that it's out there to communicate the things it does. But, yeah, as an art form and as. So we. Deeper concepts. I thought Secretary was really good too, as an author.

I'm still thinking about writing fifty Shades of Not Giving an F about Making the Bed. That would just be like, the best title on earth, combining all of the New York Times bestsellers into wine, right?

Yeah.

So. So you think that opened the door? What did the pandemic do in terms of what people are doing with sex and sexuality? Did that close the door? Did it open it further? Like, what happened?

Well, look, in my business, it's like, wide open. Like, people have been busier than ever signing up for my classes, perhaps because they're on lockdown, and it's something they can do together within their. The confines of their own home. So from me, my business perspective, it's been really positive, and I've seen more people than ever interested in these things. Like, I was surprised. I didn't know what this year, what the past year was going to look like, but people were very interested and took many leaps into these areas.

I saw a statistic sometime in the middle of last year in the US the things that increased in purchasing the most were guns and toilet paper. So I'm an American living in Canada for 10 years. In Canada, the two things that went up were sex toys and Netflix subscriptions. So.

Wow, sex toys, really?

Well, they're like, we're stuck at home. What else are we gonna do? And plus, it's dark all the time up here half the year. So.

Look, I agree, but I'm amazed that that many people, like I said, that reflects my own experience in my business. But I didn't know there was an actual statistic out there to back it up.

Yeah, it, I really laughed because it was just such a marked difference. You know, we're both on the, you know, the same continent and you know, very similar cultures, but there was that one little difference. Maybe it's because it's harder to buy guns.

Yeah.

Who knows?

I would think, yeah, if guns were available, they probably, if there was a gun culture in Canada, that might have been a different number.

Yeah, it definitely could have been. But still it just made me laugh. And speaking of sex toys, good, bad, it seems like a lot of them are focused on the clit, not the cervix. So what's your take on toys?

Well, look, I. Yes, like, I think that toys, especially for single women, women wanting to explore their bodies are fantastic. Right. And I think they can add another element of joy into couples. But yeah, I mean, I deliberately created my own line of hand blown Venetian Murano style glass couture dildos to focus on the G spot and the cervix. That's those, like I said, those are the orgasms that I give the most attention to and the most education around achieving for women. And so that I don't sell any vibrators or clitoral toys because I'm always like, put down the clitoris, go into the vagina, step away from the clitoris. I think that for women who've never had clitoral orgasms and are struggling, then a clitoral vibrator can be a good tool to just break into that territory. But then I would let it go because the vibrator is much stronger than a finger or a tongue. And we want to be able to cultivate organic experiences and not be reliant on an external device.

So.

And then the same thing with the dildos is that they're help. They're like, I've shaped them and designed them to specifically hit these areas. And so it's going to help people achieve that and get there. And if women are single, great, that's a companion for them. But then optimally they do that with their partners. Right. With their hands and their tongues and their other body parts are all exploring together. And the toys can be like an adjunct, you know, fun once in a while. But really their bodies are the primary source.

You've created a, I'm going to say a taxonomy for pleasure toys for men and women. And I want listeners to understand that. So these are things you can use by yourself or in with a partner. But the idea is just to know the categories. So you set that up kind of like you would looking at like, like phyla and all the other things that biologists would do and then the tech for regeneration, including just crazy successful stuff. You sent me a pump a while ago and I've talked about having stem cells injected in my male organs as well as shockwave therapy and things, but the pump that you sent me had a very noticeable and long term effect. Yeah, pretty surprising actually. So I want guys or partners of guys. There are things you can do, the things that if you saw an ad, that they would block the ad because it would be one of those things you're not allowed to talk about on the Internet, but things you can do for width and length and duration that are crazy. And they're not the shock wave or lasers or the real expensive stuff. These are, are relatively affordable and they take what, about 20 minutes every other day? Yeah, that was what you told me to do.

Yeah, that's right. So basically if you're listening to the audio, you won't be able to see that I have a whole bunch of cylinders here. But if you go to your YouTube.

Channel, this is the biggest one. That's one you sent me.

Right? That was his first. I'm just noting that was his first penis joke.

I had to do it. Had to do it. For the record. For the record, that wasn't the one I had.

Well, so penis pumps are given out by urologists all the time for guys. It's just that most people don't know about it. And when I started learning about the benefits of what are called vacuum erection devices, I realized that what they are best at is reversing atrophy. You look at old people and they're small, they atrophy, they shrink, they desiccate. Well, their genitals are shrinking too. So once we kind of hit the, the 40s time frame in our lifespan, our genitals begin atrophying, they begin aging. They women get vaginal laxity, we get loss of lubrication. We both male and females, have a diminishment of orgasmic capacity. We begin to struggle to achieve orgasm. Men say they have a lot of sensation loss and a guy's penis shrivels up and a woman's vulva gets smaller. All the tissue gets smaller.

Mother Nature is a harsh mistress, isn't she? She's like, we're done with you, get out of here.

Exactly.

I think we need to just completely own her.

That's why I still have my period.

Hacker does. Yeah.

At 62, it's planned obsolescence. So I feel like if I just keep having my period, I will stave off my obsolescence.

You know, there's so many reasons to believe that's true.

Yeah.

Have you heard about the experiments where they take a tiny piece of ovarian tissue when you're in your 20s and then implant them when you start menopause and then suddenly you stay younger for another 20 years?

I have been reading about that. I know, I was looking. I was eyeing my daughter the other day.

Yeah.

I don't know where to get that done yet. Research is in the uk, but if I had ovaries, I'd be banking them right now. Not all of them.

Yes.

A little tiny sliver is all it takes to stay young. Your body just has to believe you can have babies.

Babies. I know. Isn't that fascinating? I know. Very interesting. So this is one of the ways you can trick it.

And having orgasms is part of that whole system, right?

It is definitely. It's a use it or lose it proposition. And so the atrophy, you want to reverse atrophy, you want to begin to fend off the atrophy, essentially. And so what a penis pump does is it's a vacuum cylinder. You put it on your penis and you use a hand pump. I've got one right here. So we are showing these on the.

You send me the electric pump. I've got.

I did. I like the electric pump. Because you can just. Just rest the pump on your desk and you've got your keyboard and you can just do your work while you're pumping your penis. Because what you do is you pull the blood into the penis and you hold the vacuum pressure in the penis for 10 minutes and then you release, massage your penis, do it again, and then you can do it a third time. If you do that a couple times a week, it is unbelievable the change that a penis will have. The first thing that happens is it gets thicker. Girthier is the word that is used because it gets thicker faster than it gets longer. But the two cylinder system, the bigger cylinder and the small cylinder, the bigger cylinder is the one you put both the testicles and the penis in. And when you do that, it pulls on the suspensory ligament that is essentially allowing your penis to drop a little bit and elongate. And so you get length and girth within, what am I going to say, maybe about 10 weeks? You start. Start to see significant improvement in penis size. But what you also see is massive amounts of vascularization. I know you're trying to get that thing on your bicep. Your biceps are too hard now, Dave. It's not going to work.

Yeah, I was going to demo it, but I have no skin that I can reach that will. No, there we go. I got it on my arm. Look at that.

Yeah, it'll pull. It'll pull your skin right in there. And it doesn't hurt. It's actually pleasurable.

Too much muscle. It's not.

I know.

I got it a little bit.

Yeah. Good.

Anyhow, this is a relatively simple device. It's so simple, except it has a gauge on it. And I actually bought a penis pump like 10 years ago.

Right.

I saw some stuff online, actually, probably pre Reddit even. And so I bought one and it didn't really seem to do anything. You know, of course, if you have suction, lots of blood's going to flow in, but I didn't see any benefits. And when you first said, hey, Dave, you know, I'm working with doctors and I like, try that didn't work. And I tried some gold water bottles.

Get over a lot of skepticism with me. And then when they get it, they're like, oh, well, also, I think follow.

The protocol every day. And you have a protocol that you recommend, which is every other day.

Yeah, this is my pump guide. Isn't that cute?

That is cool. That is cute.

Is that you on the COVID No, I'm on the back.

There you are. You're on the back. What I did find was having the every other day. And I just do two 10 minute sessions because I'm too lazy to do three. And I didn't do it at my desk, though. I usually just did it while I was like reading in bed. It's not like sexy time unless you want it to be because you actually can't touch it because it's inside a cylinder. So it's sort of like, okay.

But it feels good.

Yeah, it feels good.

I'll tell you something. If you do it for 10, 12 weeks straight, and you're very consistent about it, you will see an unbelievable amount of vascularization in the penis. Like, you'll grow this network of veins and then they'll get. Get thicker and then your penis will be bigger, harder, firmer, veinier. It will feel better. Your orgasms will be better. You'll. You'll get out of the shower and you'll catch a glimpse and you'll be.

Like, oh, that looks good.

You know, you get, you get some confidence back. In all honesty, a A guy's penis is a big part of his personal confidence, and so when he can get it looking really good, he feels better about himself.

You do see changes where you get out of the shower and you're like, who's that in the. In the mirror?

Yeah, it's a nice feeling.

It's a nice feeling. It's also a little bit weird like that. Like, you don't recognize yourself quite as much for a little while until you just get used to it. And by now you're going, all right, what is this stuff? It's moredave.com is that Susan set up for this. And there's discounts and all the tech that we're talking about. This is quite affordable, and it doesn't take a lot of time. You can do other things while you're doing it. And I prefer biohacks that have a big impact in a small amount of time, that don't suck away from other activities.

I want to show you a couple more things that go with it, too, because we're going to talk about what this. This is called male enhancement. So you can go to just reversing atrophy, or you can actually make your penis bigger. And a lot everybody want. All women want to be richer and thinner. All men want a bigger penis. And, you know, we can't actually make our breasts much bigger, but the penis really responds to pumping. And guys that are small, they want to be bigger. Guys that are big want to be bigger. It's like all guys want to be bigger. And this is a red light wrap that goes on the cylinder. You got it. That helps with photobiomodulation on both recovery and repair. So you can wrap that right on the pump cylinder, or you can wrap it right on your penis.

And listeners all know about light therapy. Yeah. Because I've been talking about true light. And in fact, it was one of the first light therapy companies out there, one that I started. And we don't make anything like this because this is specifically designed to go around the penis pumps. And as you can see, it would fit, you know, really, really well.

Yeah, it'll fit for you. That's your second penis joke.

I was putting on my wrist.

He's trying to sneak him in now. You see it, don't you?

I am innocent. I was just saying that for any man out there, this would almost certainly work. Unless, guess you are bigger than my arm, in which case, hats off, brother.

So this is a traction device. It's called Deep. I named it.

It's called Deep and you have me sitting here holding a dildo. A life. A lifelike one.

It's a penis. It's a model of a penis.

But it's not just a model. It's got the, the cyber skins. This is like a pleasure one. This I have high quality. This isn't a model. This is a toy. Susan.

Well, it depends on what you want to do.

It's got a suction cup base.

It does, yeah. This is. It is a toy which I use to demonstrate a traction device. And if you want to accelerate length. So penis pumps work super well for girth, if you want to. Did you get it to stick?

I was trying to get the suction cup to stick to my hand. It didn't work.

Why? Why? I thought I could bring a table full of items for Dave and he wouldn't goof.

I want to be a unicorn. Okay.

That. It'll stick to your forehead. You might as well do it.

I'm not going to try.

That's a riddle.

It'll leave a red circle for the rest of the interview.

Anyway, this. You wear this half an hour before pumping and it accelerates the length. It basically does cellular growth so that you get even more length faster. And a lot of guys want more length too.

All right. There's a downside to more length that I discovered.

Yeah. You get too big for your girlfriend.

Yeah. It actually can happen and has happened where you start to get. Where you bump the back painfully. So I would say girth is more important than length. Unless you have a lower than average length, in which case, great, you want to get it up. I did try. What's this one called? Deeper.

Deep.

Deep. I did try this and it works. And guys, this is if you're watching or women who are your husband and.

Support him in making sure he doesn't atrophy.

It's a little spring loaded thing and it wraps around the head. It doesn't hurt. I've used it. I have used this during zoom calls. Because you just put it on.

Exactly. You can wear it on your pants. And no one knows.

Yeah, no one knows. And it's got a little spring loaded piston that just gently stretches.

It tugs.

And if you think about it, what do you do when you're stretching? Well, you're stretching and when you exercise, same thing. So all this is. Is telling the cells to grow.

Yeah.

And it actually works. And what's the amount of time to use this?

Use it half an hour before your pumping session.

For how long?

You could wear that Half an hour on Half an hour off or eight hours a day if you wanted to. I mean, you could wear that a lot.

But it should not be on for more than a half hour.

Not more than a half an hour.

Okay, so 30 minutes, then take a break. 30 minutes, take a break. I've only used it for 30 minutes twice a day. And again, you can do it with other things. So if this is an area where you're either sensitive or you just want to. Want to make a change, you do deep and then you do the pump again. This is all@moredave.com and then.

And the pump guide is there too, with the instructions.

The pump guide. And then you can put the photobiomodulation around it. And what you end up with is really, really, really noticeable changes. Even if you're happy with what you have, which is a situation that I'm in, I'm like, wow, what else can you biohack? Yeah. So I wanted to just be really, really straightforward and just raw with you guys so that this isn't something most people are going to talk about because there's all kinds of shame or judgment or whatever, but you get to pick the size and shape and you get to change it. And it's as easy to change that as it is to grow biceps by going to the gym. It's actually easier because there's more effort at the gym.

It's the plasticity of the penis, like the plasticity of the mind. We can apply the same principles.

I have to hand this dildo back to you. I don't want to stand here waving it around like a king staff.

I have these little bump bombs.

So I don't have one of these. What is this?

Those are called ona. And there's. You said, what if I get too big? Well, there's two things I want to say about that. The first is that you can put these little bump ons on so that you don't penetrate your partner too deeply. But I want to leave some space for women who have the mind that their partner is too big for them. Because one of the next things I want to talk to you about, but there's one thing I want to say before we do it, but I want to talk to you about what the vagina is really like and how being penetrated deeply, once you get used to it, is an incredibly pleasurable experience. And sometimes you just have to slow down and allow your body to open to the pleasure of deeper penetration. But we'll get there in just one second.

Cervical orgasm kind of stuff.

Beyond Cervical orgasm. So I want to get to the 20 kinds of orgasms and how you do orgasmic cross training. But I want to finish off with male and hand. And that is the. And you're welcome to open these up, Dave. These are the firm tech rings. This is called the tech ring. And this is that penis ring. We showed these at the biohacking conference. You can wear this penis ring at night, and it has a strain gauge on it and soon a pulse oximeter. And what it does is it tells you how many nighttime erections you have. Now, I have guys who are pumping and they'll text me and they'll say. Or they'll email me and they'll say, my erections are so strong, they're waking me up now. Like, I went from not having nocturnal erections. And when you lose nocturnal erections, you're on your way to a heart attack. I mean, it is the canary in the coal mine. So you want to count your nocturnal erections and you want to count the duration and the firmness of your erectile function. And you can map it over time with the app. And this penis ring goes under the testicles around the penis and allows you to measure your progress. So as you're pumping and you're getting. Here we go. This is the one with the readout on it. As you're pumping and you're getting more vascularization and you're getting more blood flow and you're reversing atrophy and you're generating new, new tissue in your penis, you can quantify it. I call this the aura. He's shooting it across the room.

I was trying to shoot it like a rubber band.

I call it the Oura ring for your ding a ling.

There you go. See you next time on the Human Upgrade Podcast.

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