The Anti-Aging Skincare Trends That Are DAMAGING Your Skin | Amitay Eshel : 1292

If you minimize oxidative stress in your skin, you're going to get better responses as far as like UV radiation.

Old skin equals old brain.

Old skin equals a brain that is being inflamed. Not only an older brain, but a brain that actually ages the body. I have artificial light on me. These lights actually lower the energy production of my skin cells so they lower ATP. I see like a lot of people now saying oh the sun is like 80% of why your skin is aging. That is not only not true. If you look at corre strictly correlated studies as far as like how we live our life, 60% of why you age is because of environmental factors that are non uv.

A lot of our allergic triggers are from leaky skin barrier. And using a good quality skin care seals the barrier. What are the things that I should be looking for in the topicals that I use? You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey Emitay. It's so fun to talk with you because you're also a biohacker and you have this, well, you know, I'm technical. And then I started working with lasers and light and radio frequency stuff and then you started working with longevity compounds on the skin. And most of the biohacking world they kind of missed how important the skin is as an organ and, and as a way to get substances into the body. And the stuff you're doing at Young Goose is really interesting because you have a different frame on beauty as we have your biohacking beauty show. I've heard you say that a lot of anti aging treatments actually age your skin. Why?

First of all, it really depends on who you are and how you, you know, how, how you show up to that treatment. So if you are the Tom Brady or the Dave Asprey of youthful function, you can get away with a lot of things. But 99.9% of people aren't. And most beauty treatments, anti aging treatments as far as like the skin is concerned are very rudimentary in the way that they provide results which is stimulation of repair through control damage. And the problem is that is injury that your body needs to hit deal with. If it deals with it like a 50 year old body, you're going to get a lot of anything from scar tissue formation to you know, before that we talked about adhesion between parts. That's one thing that happens. But you could think of collagen and elastin production which I think that's what a lot of people imagine to themselves Treatments are as a response for trauma that is based on scar tissue. For me. It's not, not based on some kind of access of our youthful function and rewinding of our, of our youthful state.

Okay, so people in their 40s or 50s don't heal from injuries very well. So you're saying the longevity treatments that are like sanding your skin, you're not going to heal because your body's not in a state to heal.

Sanding your skin is definitely. But that is, that is, I think the, the kind of, the imaginary situation because no one actually goes ahead and sands the skin. But things for example, like radio frequency, like ultrasound, high frequency ultrasound, these things go into a very, very deep tissue. Technically speaking, they actually try and target your fascia. Just a side discussion, but what they are trying to do is to create a reaction of a, of that, that a youthful skin would do, which is heal perfectly. But what you get really is basically scar tissue you're getting. And it's not even in the skin level, it's a much deeper level. Even things like your blood, vess, your fat do not react very well to those things.

So you're saying people who are doing these, these radio frequency aging treatments are actually creating deep scarring in the fascia.

That is, by the way, any plastic surgeon that is dealing with facial plastics is going to tell you this, that this is a harder patient to deal with. We can also talk about things that are more on a cellular level, which are things like, you know, shortening your telomeres or anything you, anything that we do that asks your tissue to regenerate faster than it is capable of. You're depleting, you're calling on future reservoirs, you're calling on what your body has kind of left for your future. So you're, you're borrowing reservoir reservoirs that you're not going to have later on, if that makes sense. By the way, even in skincare we can see, we can see the results of that because conventional medical grade skincare brands that still, we have some biohackers that are using because they kind of don't know better. They got the, they're drinking that Kool Aid still are really concentrating on the stimulatory aspect without any support of youthful function.

It's funny, I've been, I've been out there for a long time saying training harder isn't going to get you results unless you're replenished ahead of time and you recover as fast as the stimulation.

Yeah.

So you're kind of saying that people are just over stimulating and not recovering. Their skin. What does skin recovery look like?

Well, it depends first of all on your age, but mainly skin recovery. It starts with sleep, eat, continues with blood circulation. So these are the two tenants, really, you know, making sure that you like exercise, right? Making sure that there is. That there are building blocks that come with your blood supply and that you have enough time to recover, which happens at night. We can talk about, you know, further later. But basically, your body doesn't recover or respond very well when you're awake. It just tries to kind of survive until it's nighttime or until sleep. So these are the two tenants. If you're older and you cannot access the right epigenetic responses like collagen production, elastic production, hyaluronic acid production, but many other things like LUM as a cool gene, then you won't even respond well if you had all the sleep possible. So you really need to make sure youthful function is an issue if you. And then how do I support it through lifestyle?

Okay, so let's say someone's serious about their skin, and they say, all right, I'm going to make a commitment to go to sleep on time. And by the way, guys, go to sleepwithdave.com, best URL of my entire life. And it's free. And it's just all the stuff that I know about how to get better sleep. And I've been really focused on this for 17 years. I've been tracking my sleep, and you can really shift it. So go there and get some sleep. But I also admit this. I'm a dude. I don't really want to put a bunch of stuff on my face. And about eight, nine years ago, just studying skin barrier functions again, I'm realizing this is actually something that I want to do. So before I go to bed, I do put things on my face, including Young Goose, and it makes a really big difference. What are the things that I should be looking for in the topicals that I use? Like what. What's in there?

So I think most of the time, you're sold to panacea. Most of the time, there is this one ingredient that a company has at least built some kind of framework around, saying that they have this ingredient no one else has, and that would solve all your problems. So the truth to the matter is there is no panacea. But there are a few things that you want to pay attention to. The first is youthful energy. Or basically, we can think of nad as the molecule that kind of leads that. But youthful energy in general could be just good Mitochondrial function. So we need to.

Wow.

Yeah. Okay.

So I mean, like everything comes out of mitochondria. That's basically the whole, the whole central point of, of biohacking is make the mitochondria work and you can be more conscious, your skin works better, your liver, everything. So nad topically is part of what Young Goose is.

Yeah. And by the way, you could also a side side note from like just skin topicals within the mitochondrial discussion. I think that things that you ingest orally, like phosphatidylcholine, would help tremendously as well, like a side note. But youthful energy is one area. The second area is kind of removal of waste. So if you think of a city, obviously the city needs. Needs to run on energy to function well, but you also need someone to clear the trash every day.

The senescent cells.

Senescent cells are a type of trash, but you have many other types of trash, like, you know, cellular parts that are not functioning correctly or proteins that have been misfolded, for example. So we. The best way to do that, the most all encompassing way, is through autophagy. And there is a trick here because even though I referred to something that could work from the inside out within autophagy, it's an issue because in order to trigger autophagy, we are lowering our calorie count, basically, or we're minimizing the time that we ingest calories. Yeah.

So intermittent fasting is a major way to increase autophagy. And there are some natural compounds that do it as well, though.

Yes, correct. And so the natural compounds, especially if you apply them on the skin, they kind of bypass the fact that you might lose facial fat if you just lost weight, which I know is something you've spoken about recently, being a 6%.

Body fat is not good for your face.

Exactly. So, for example, spermidine, and especially sperm, like full spectrum spermidine. Spermidine and its pre and postcursors, permin and putresine are these amazing compounds that together don't only trigger autophagy. They're actually, they're needed in order for your genes to express autophagy. So even if you fasted like crazy, if you don't have enough spermidine, spermin and putresine, you're not going to have proper autophagy.

So you have all of those in Young Goose.

Yeah.

And this is kind of funny because if you look at ammonia formation, which is related to these things, if you eat way too much protein, or maybe you eat enough protein, but you can't digest it because your stomach, stomach acid doesn't work, then it kind of spoils in the gut. And putresine was discovered in spoiling meat. And I was like, oh, we don't want that. In fact, in the very, very early days of figuring out all this stuff in the bulletproof diet, like, well, we don't want these biogenic amines in our gut. But it turns out spermidine is when you want. And too much putrescine in the gut is not a good thing because it means basically your food's spoiling, which if it's spoiling, you have a problem with digestion. But when you have adequate amounts of this, it turns out that's another longevity compound, very similar to what spermidine does, but no one talk talks about it. You guys are actually using it in a supplement on the skin?

Yeah.

Does it affect me systemically if I put it on my skin?

Yes and no. Okay. So not in a way that you would think. Although we have discovered in a trial we're running now that because we're supplementing the skin with NAD precursors and allowing the skin to actually recycle its own nad, which is a different story. It does affect it systemically. But to answer your question, you're not going to get better autophagy throughout your body because you're triggering autophagy in the skin. But there is a really, really cool couple studies coming out of Portugal that shows that senescent cells in your skin can actually hijack your skin brain axis and age your brain through the. Really?

This is new info to me.

Yeah, I'll send you the study, but it's through the HPA axis. So you have an axis that is responsible for your kind of stress responses in the body, and it's directly linked to your skin.

So old skin equals old brain.

Old skin equals a brain that is being inflamed. Not only an older brain, but a brain that actually ages the body in return.

How old are you?

I'm almost 39.

Almost 39. Your skin looks ridiculous, especially under your eyes.

Yeah.

What do you do to it?

First of all, sleep. I think if you've talked about the eyes, the sleep is the number one issue. But I do very simple things. I wash my face only once a day, and that's at night. I don't wash it in the morning. I make sure that the sun that I am exposed to is kind of before zenith of the sun to the earth. So basically like until 10pm or after 4pm, I use zinc oxide as my sun block. That's a side note because if you look at real research and I see like a lot of people now saying oh, the sun is like 80% of why your skin is aging. That is not only not true. If you look at correctly correlated studies as far as like how we live our Life, you are 60% of why you age is because of environmental factors that are non UV, so non native EMFs, pollution, heavy metals, artificial blue light. So these are things that I try to avoid as much as possible, but I use compounds that mitigate those interactions with my skin. Ectoin is like a great example which, which is an ingredient that does that.

Ectoin.

Ectoin, yeah.

What's that from?

Ectoin is from a bacteria. It's from extremolites. So if anyone goes to like Yellowstone and they see beautiful colors around the ponds, that's from that, that's from that type of bacteria. And they all. They're also called space teddy bears because allegedly they can survive on the outside.

The tardigrades.

Yes, exactly.

Okay.

So tardigrades have this really, really cool protein that structures water around protein so it actually provides a structure that doesn't let proteins degrade as much.

Wow.

A really cool. I call it everything that hyaluronic acid wish it were.

I did not know you had tardigrade juice available. Okay. And the fact that it works by structuring water. Years ago I had this idea to put butter and MCT oil in water. Oh, and coffee. I mean, who would have imagined, right? And it drove me insane that I had to blend. It was called bulletproof coffee back then. Today I'm no longer with bulletproof. And I put butter and MC in my danger. Coffee that also has minerals and is mold tested, blah blah blah. But it drove me nuts. I couldn't eat butter and drink coffee. It does not work. And it should work, but. Well, the reason is that you have to blend it. And so I, I did some research, I paid for it at the University of Washington with Dr. Gerald Pollock. And he has proven that this kind of structured water we're talking about, this isn't like the woo woo quantum water. And that may be real. Actually, I have a wand that makes water taste different. There's something going on there. But structured water is something that happens when water normally comes in contact with fat. And the two kinds of fat that raise structure in water the most is, is butter oil and MCT oil. And we prove this in studies. You can see it on a microscope. This is not wishful thinking. Water. This is very real. And cells can't make ATP or fold proteins. And you have a magic protein that's better than MCT oil and butter oil at making structured water in the skin.

Actually, there is a. What? Yeah, there's actually better magic, by the way. Red light therapy.

Oh, yeah, I kind of know about that.

Yeah.

Maybe started a company a dozen years ago in that space.

Okay, so one of the more.

Woo.

Things that are less that the burden of evidence is still, you know, there. But something I truly believe in is that red light therapy can structure water.

Oh, that's. Well, infrared certainly structures it. Red may.

Yes. Well, when. Okay, let me preface when. When we say red light therapy, we mean like red and near infrared, which are wavelengths that are.

Gerald Pollock will tell you very specifically it does structure water and he knows exactly the frequencies. So I would say there's science behind that.

So I agree with you and with him. And one really cool thing that I'll give you, two cool things that it does. One thing is structures water in the mitochondria. And you have a little like a turbine in your mitochondria that spits out energy. And the more structured water you have in the mitochondria, the easier it is for that thing to spin. So that's one thing that's like the ease of energy production. And as we grow older, it's harder for us to create energy. It's like costs more energy to create energy.

Yeah, that's the Krebs cycle, if you guys read the books.

And the other thing is. And then specifically it's a ATPase pump. But. But the other thing is, is that when we grow older, our elastin, which is a protein similar to collagen, has a coating which normally has it glide on top of itself and other things. You can think of fascia as something that does that. And as we grow older, the. The coating flips as far as like hydrophilic and hydrophobic and it becomes sticky. And red light therapy can also, through structuring of that filament, can actually reverse that and have it glide again. So you got to help it. There are ingredients that can help it. But. But that's a really cool thing that red light therapy does that is yet to be explored deeply.

There are studies of red light and elastin formation that are positive. And what you're saying is it doesn't just increase elastin, it increases this glide capability of it.

Because. Because one thing that red light therapy doesn't do well is being its own stimulant. So, like, the hormetic aspect of red light isn't great. And one way to think about it is you really have to work extremely hard to overdose on red light. And you don't need to work very hard to overdose on, as you've mentioned, on exercise, for example. It's actually very easy to overdose on exercise. That is because the stimulatory aspect is quite, you know, predominant. But what it does do, it potentiates a lot of things and, and, and elast. So the fibroblasts, the cells that create collagen, elastin, hyaluronic acid, et cetera, they're, they can be improved, their function can be improved greatly with red light. So when you do other things to stimulate it or if these cells, you know, are older and don't function correctly, it is a great therapy, a standalone therapy. But if you kind of want to rewind time, I think a lot of people expect too much of red light therapy alone. So if you want to kind of rewind time, it should be a supportive treatment to some stimulation that you have done.

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Well over training age your skin 100%.

Yes, for for two reasons. The first reason is because overtraining just creates inflammation. And you know, inflammation is aging what we call inflammation. But the other thing is is that every type of tissue that you are damaging or not every type of tissue but a lot of tissues that you are damaging when you're training rely on collagen. So it's, it's almost like asking me if I overtrain, will my gut suffer? Yes, because gut needs collagen. And a lot of ultra marathon athletes or just long distance runners because they damage their collagen in their knees like wherever they get a lot of impact, they have ibs like a lot of them. It's a very common thing. And you can see people who have done extreme exercise formats have really, really aged the skin or their skin definitely is aged faster than it needs to be.

And some people say that's from sun, but you'll see it in indoor bodybuilders and things as well. So it's not just triathletes or something. And it's how much stress does your body take to put on muscle or change VO2 max and then how much recovery do you get? And the whole upgrade labs thing is let's do less but more effective training and then more recovery. And I think it shows in skin.

Not only that you are correct, you're also I think if we really break it down it is metabolism ages you in general, just like metabolism ages you. The a lot of the reason that we're talking about GLP1 agonists right now as being some sort of anti aging aside from supporting other things. Yes, no. Have side effects. Yes, no. Whatever. We obviously are getting a lot of questions. Do they again like do they support skin aging because they they you have like Something called ozempic phase, which makes you lose fast fat and stuff like that. But mainly the reason that they are supporting healthy aging is because they slow down metabolism. So when you are calling on energy creation in general in the body, you are getting more side effects. You're, you're paying for it with actual aging. So if you, if you, the more you train, technically speaking, the faster you age. Yeah.

Wow. Yeah. Now if you have proper recovery and proper nutrition, your body will increase the antioxidants made inside your cells. Yeah. So you can handle more training as long as everything is set up right and you're sleeping and all of that. Can you put those antioxidants directly into the skin?

You could to some extent. Some of them. We really like for them to be systemic. So I'll give you an example. For example, like glutathione. Glutathione is not the friendliest of molecules. When you're trying to introduce it to the body and you need to play tricks with it and to get it into the skin, a lot of times you need to use high levels of synthetic vitamin C. So vitamin C in nature is, is, is a complex that has a lot of minerals. For example, when we use vitamin C as a shuttle vehicle, it's only the outside layer of it. And that is actually at very low quantity. It's already pro inflammatory. Pro inflammatory aging, pro oxidation. Oxid like leads oxidation and actually causes death by something called fersus.

So so you just punch vitamin C in the face?

Not all vitamin C, just a synthetic version of vitamin C which is ascorbic acid or L ascorbic acid, which is the topical version of it. But using it as a shuttle vehicle is kind of very dangerous because I'm paying for oxid. Oxidative stress by trying to lower oxidative load. So it's just like one thing. But yeah, if vitamin C was here, it would have been punched in the face. Yes, that is correct.

It's really funny. Vitamin C is important, but the mega dosing protocols that became really popular in the 90s, there's a use case if you're really sick to do high dose vitamin C. But what it's doing then if you have a continuous glucose monitor, it'll show that your blood Sugar is like 500, which is not real. But vitamin C gets processed like sugar in the body above what you need, which is about 250 milligrams twice a day. I don't have a problem with ascorbic acid at low doses like that. But if you're trying to take a lot more than that. It also turns into oxalate, which will age your skin and age your joints and is a fundamental problem in aging that very few people are talking about.

Yeah.

So you're saying you could use a little vitamin C topically, but it's just a shuttle for other things. Or would you take it orally?

So I want. I want people to take it orally. They can also. You could also do a lot of. A lot of things that. With skin care, it would be an issue. So, for example, if I asked you to apply skin care even, like three times a day, I think you would start to hate me. Like, you know, that's what we started. The conversation is like, hey, let me try and get you to do most things like, once a day.

Right. So you only use Young Goose once a day?

No, I use a very minimal program in the morning. Just gets me out the door and makes sure that the environmental stressors don't age me more than I. Than they would. And in the evening, that is when I cue anything from repair, by the way, to my entire body. Anything that I do, from PEMF to red light therapy to skincare, if it's recovery inducing, I'll do it at night, as long as it doesn't obviously stimulate me. So in the morning, it's just basically, you know, put on a serum that has all of these active ingredients that we talked about, whether it is like copper peptides or spermidine, NAD precursors, et cetera, and a sunblock that we make, which actually you graciously spoke about before with Molly Malouf in a podcast. But that basically protects me against. It has ectoin, it has all of those things. And in the evening I'll do more. But, yeah, that's basically it.

That's cool. I just said, all right, fine. After I shave, I'm just gonna smear stuff on my face. I love the Young Goose products. Thank you. And to be clear, it's not the only thing I put on my face. I put some other stuff on, too. I'm kind of like, I got some new things smear a lot on. But I'm like, I'm willing to do it because I think, in fact, I see the difference. And then at night, I put it on again. Right.

I did want to say, I just remembered that you asked me about doses of vitamin C. So I think it's important for skincare, because in skincare, you. You won't. It's crazy. Like, I remember speaking to biohackers for the first time. And I had to shift the way that I speak from percentages to quantity.

Right. Or we'll take 50 pills if that's gonna make us feel better.

Correct. And in skincare, normally you talk about percentages. So no one's going to say, oh, I have 250 mgs of vitamin C in my product. They're going to say, I have, you know, 30% vitamin C. So if we're talking about ascorbic acid and not other forms that are significantly better for your skin like THDA or MAP, magnesium, Ascorby phosphate, it will be not more than 3%. And medical grade kind of older skincare products, they, they have 20 to 30. This is not great. And by the way there you mentioned like megadoses that was born out of like, you know, anti tumor, like tumor suppressant protocols, which the longevity community kind of inherited a lot of those protocols incorrectly, in my opinion. Including eating a high oxalotite, by the way. That's like one thing.

Yeah.

We inherited.

There's a fat soluble form of vitamin C called Ascorbyl palmitate.

Yeah.

Is that good for your skin or bad for your skin?

So fat soluble vitamin Cs are the best. If you're thinking about. First of all, they're the best. And the reason is, is that they absorb through your, your fatty layer that protects your skin, part of your skin barrier. Not to say that water soluble vitamin Cs are not good, but they do mainly mitigation of like uv, UV damage. Okay, why do we want vitamin C to absorb more? Because it's a cofactor for collagen production. So I have a friend that just had surgery, like explant surgery. I told her, hey, really take a lot of sodium. Sodium ascorbate or calcium ascorbate, which, which are supporting collagen production. To answer your question, the this is not like the best form of fat soluble vitamin C. Thda.

What does that stand for?

Thd. Ascorbate tetrahoxidexyl Ascorbate.

Okay.

Is the best version of hexal.

Do you take that orally? I've never seen it.

No.

Just topical.

Just topical. It's not great for your stomach if you took it orally, but, but topical it's actually three times more powerful than ascorbic acid. So we actually don't need that much.

And so. So you've studied this at Young Goose?

Yeah.

Okay. Wow. All right. That is a new ingredient for me and I kind of know most ingredients, so that's, that's super cool. T H D A. Yeah. Okay. Wow. All right.

You'll find this research, funny thing is we are this, you know, what we call small lab at big ideas. So we've. We've introduced to the market things like, you know, Ektoin. I think we're the first company to that. Ergothioneine is another one.

Love ergothioneine.

Yes.

That's a potent longevity molecule.

I.

It's like the next glutathione.

So I think we were the first ones to use it topically as well. And thda when we started using it, it was. No one wanted to touch it because they can't claim high, high concentration. And that, as you know, marketing is 90% of skincare. But now that there is a movement against ascorbic acid, rightfully so. You'll see more brands using it.

Okay, very cool. So you've kind of set the stage for that.

Yeah.

Okay.

And nad, obviously, we were the first ones, spermidine. So, like, you start seeing, you know, molecules that we've. We were the only ones touching, becoming mainstream. And it's kind of cool.

Young Goose is interesting because we've known each other for a long time and I've been tracking the biohacking movement kind of since I started it.

Right.

And we'll come up with these molecules, things will just appear like spermidine. I helped the first oral spermidine company come into the US and talked about it before you could buy it.

Yeah.

In my longevity book. And that is I want it, and I at least want to take it orally. And what you're doing at Young Goose is saying, well, most of the longevity molecules that there's research on internally, that you can make them enter the skin, and then you have a really big benefit from that. And very few companies are paying attention that way. They're kind of stuck in, like, let's put some soybean oil in your skin or something.

Yeah.

What does using seed oils and a formulation on your skin do, actually?

So seed oils as a rule, can be used for good in skincare. And that is because. So that's again, one of those things that we have a lot of leeway because it doesn't go systemically. So technically speaking, that's not what. I'm not saying that that's what you should do, but if you, if you put like a rancid oil on your face, you're not going to have the same damage, systemic damage that you're going to have if it were again, like in a In a, in an oral formulation. Having said that, that's not a good thing. Right. But we do need Omega 6s and 9 for skin barrier function. Actually that's a lot of what your skin barrier is. Even to the extent that you, for example, have vitamin D. Right. In order for vitamin A to be managed well by your skin and not have something called retinization, which your skin becomes red, flaky, irritated, etc. You kind of need omega 9s. So seed oils in general can be used responsibly with ingredients that make sure that they spoil the least amount as possible. And also, by the way, formulate not like 700 years in advance because most products you buy off, you know, the Sephora shelf, the proverbial Sephora shelf are 18 months old.

So they've had a chance to break down.

Yes. So just think of that. You want companies that formulate about three months in advance, let's say. And then it could be positive. The negative aspects is if they're rancid, statistically you could have some rancidity there. But if they're rancid, they're going to render your skin barrier permeable. More permeable. Well, you know, Kiran Krishnan and I call the leaky skin factor, which is different than leaky gut.

But yeah, leaky skin's a big deal. Years ago I had a Stanford researcher who wrote a book called the End of Food Allergies. And her point was a lot of our allergic triggers are from leaky skin barrier. And using a good quality skin care seals the barrier, right?

Yes. By the way, spermidine. One of the best benefits of spermidine in the skin is actually for skin barrier because it's not only a longevity molecules for you, it's also for your microorganisms that are important. But having said that, when we think of skin, leaky skin, we really want to think of leakage of information. So part of what I said about like the senescent burden in your skin and how it hijacks the skin brain axis, that's technically. You could also think of it as leaky skin. Right. Because it leaks like pro aging information to your body. So another thing would be any ingredient that cannot be cleared well by the skin. So resveratrol is actually a great polyphenol for the skin, but if it's not fermented it, your skin cannot break it down, doesn't have the enzyme to break it down and it becomes again pro aging. It actually stresses your skin, stresses your body in return. So again, it's, it's leakage of, of stressors rather than the actual molecules. And that, that applies also, by the way, to allergic reactions.

So. Interesting.

Yeah.

Okay. What about saturated fat in the skin?

So, so saturated fat is great. Great in the skin. Spoilage is still an issue. So you see, since there are a lot of companies using beef tallow in their formulation, it a little bit bothers me to speak negatively about that because we were a small company once and I would never want anyone to speak badly about myself. But here's like something that people should know. Such like, beef tallow has a shelf life of about six months.

Yep.

That is if you kept it in a cool place and didn't touch it with your dirty fingers every day. So if you did that, obviously that's not the case. So there is an issue of spoilage there. Especially if we're doing something called clean washing, which is like the clean skincare field likes to tout what they do not have.

It's like green washing.

Exactly.

Like, oh, it's gluten free. Like, yeah, it's still not good for you.

By the. Remember the first time we were in Equinox, so now we're kind of rolling out in Equinox. I remember the first time they had us like in a booth. They wanted to test us out and they tested us out and another skincare brand. And the entire thing that the other skincare brand could say is that they're vegan. Oh, it's good because it's vegan. It's vegan, it's vegan, it's vegan, it's vegan. And the funny thing was, is like, that's where I invented the idea of clean washing. Because you, you are in a race to the bottom. Everyone else can say the same thing. You are just eliminating the conversation around what, what is beneficial for fear mongering, etc. So because of that silo, because of that eco chamber within the clean skin care field, you're not getting people who are incentivized to keep things stable. And what happens when you have that is you have high spoilage. You have a lot of like, mold in skincare products. A lot, by the way. So saturated fats are great within the confines of good, truthful formulation.

Thanks for saying that. I, I think there's value for saturated fat. MCT oil is a saturated fat. You can put that on your skin. Steric acid is good for your skin.

Right. We use MCT in every product we make, I think.

Cool. And it's very true. I have made my own tallow. Right. And putting just straight tallow on your skin is a little bit shiny. Right. So a lot of companies will blend it with water. Right. You can emulsify it that way. And then like I said, there's going to be a spoilage issue because anytime there's water in an ingredient, you can have molded things. So then you put in things that are going to stop it from spoiling, but they have to also not ruin the bacteria on the skin. So I think that there's a role for tallow in skincare. But what you're saying is be cautious, has to be well formulated with a lot of science and probably not single ingredient.

Right, Exactly. And by the way, mct, I'm telling you, from playing with tallow for the last two years for sure, maybe more, it doesn't behave as well as mct. MCT is a significantly better molecule to deal with.

I'm kind of a fan of mct. Maybe turned into a billion dollar industry category. Exactly. And it does work very well topically. There are people in the longevity space who are going to carry an umbrella and say, I could never be in the sun or sun is bad for your skin. What's your take on that?

I think it's nuanced. First of all, they're wrong. Okay, let's just start. That they are incorrect. What? They are incorrect in their, their. You know what I love about biohacking? I mean, you have a great line around biohacking, which is like, you know, altering the environment around you, within you, in order to affect your biology. That's, I mean, that's how, you know, if my uncle asked me, what is biohacking? I'll, I'll tell him that. But I think another thing to say about biohacking is extracting good responses to bad environmental cues. So, you know, talking, like, talking about red light therapy, because we have, before we have talked about it, the sun as a whole can damage you. So your body has, if that has kind of evolved to respond to that with, with some regenerative processes. So we're kind of harvesting that and providing it separately and kind of tricking the body. Right. So that is, that is to say the sun has benefits that we should use, that we should interact with, but we can do it in a more biohacking way. So I'll give you one statistic. Blue light is as bad for your mitochondria as red and near infrared light are good for your mitochondria. So if you're in an office or in front of your phone or computer for eight hours and then you do your 10 minutes red light therapy, you're not doing much. And if you are exposed to pollution, heavy metals, EMFs and blue light and then go out to the sun, the areas that were exposed are really bad at dealing with sun damage. And there is research out of the Yonsei University, that's in Seoul, Korea, showing that exposure to red light therapy, which is obviously improving mitochondrial function, can help you deal, deal with the damage of the sun. What I want to say by that is if you're going up, so you've, you've had, you've taken some flack for like butt tanning, what's it called?

Butthole tan.

Butthole tanning, Butthole, butthole sunning. Why is that? You know, if you don't burn your butthole, why is that good? It's because this has not been exposed to a lot of bad things and it's very kind of reactive because it's white. Right. And that's gonna synthesize way more vitamin D than your arms, for example, in a T shirt, being exposed to artificial light for like eight hours. Meaning if you want to harvest the good effects of direct sunlight exposure, do it in areas that are not being bombarded with, with bad, bad cues all day. Mainly your solar panel of your, your torso and thighs.

There's skin there anyway.

Exactly. And it's also, there is some evidence that, you know, fat, which, that's where you kind of carry more fat, has some contributing factors as far as like dealing with damage. It actually contributes stem cells to your skin. You have more blood circulation there. Your, your muscles there are bigger. They, they, they pump more blood there. So all of those things are actually really good at synthesizing vitamin D. But in general dealing with that sun onslaught of UV radiation, your face and your, your arms or your feet are actually not really good at it. So that's just be more of a biohacker around it. Like just do a more thoughtful job as far as like getting the good without the negative. And yeah, protect your face.

I've noticed that if I, well, if I go to the trouble of minimizing omega 6 fat in my diet, which I've done for last 15 years very reliably. I don't get sunburned. It takes a lot of for me to get sunburned. I also minimize my exposure to LED lighting and blue lighting. Sorry for the studio lights. It's the only time they're on in here. And we know that melanoma which is supposed to be caused by the sun is way more highly correlated with fluorescent lights and LED lights. So it's your office lighting that causes melanoma, not sunshine. But sunburns are correlated with it. So.

Huh.

Well then what about wrinkles? What do you know about UV light and wrinkles?

Okay, so first of all, you know, the first aspect of it is just like oxidative stress. So obviously if you have Omega 6, you have higher oxidative load. And what really happens in with the sun is that it increases oxidative stress. We don't have like UV particles or photons are not traveling around our skin just destroying it. They kind of do that a little bit, which is the second part of what I'm going to say. But in general it all gets translated to oxidative stress. So if you minimize oxidative stress in your skin, you're going to get better responses as far as like UV radiation. And you can, by what you eat, modulate your natural SPF air quotes by about a factor of like seven plus and minus by the way. But as far as wrinkles, one of the things that UV does directly is damage your DNA and fuse parts. It's called primate and dimers. It fuses parts of your DNA together and that is not. That has been considered impossible to repair. And that leads to malfunction, malfunctioning epigenetic expression, especially around collagen genes, elastin genes, genes that are responsible, something called parps, which are enzymes that are responsible for repair of that damage. They're, they're really, really getting damaged there. But also that depletes a lot of nad. So you have like this monster of damaged DNA that can't do things correctly. You have these damaged enzymes that can't do things correctly. And you, the molecule that's responsible for fueling all of that goodness is also being depleted. So it's a three headed monster right now. I believe we are the only ones at the moment that have succeeded in rever or creating a topical product that you can right now because there's a lot of study around it that can reverse the UV induced DNA damage.

This is the young goose part. Which product is that?

It's called ladder, which is a H. You know, it's a joke on the ladder of your DNA. But it means light activated DNA repair. Wow. Yes.

Do you have to use red light with it?

Technically speaking, you need a light rich environment.

Okay.

So. And you need at least. So you need red light or amber. Amber is 5, 5 35, which is I know, I know 535 to about 900, which is like amber, red, near infrared. And a lot of the reasons that amber is good for your skin is because it activates those enzymes independently of any product.

Do you know why I laughed?

Yes. Because you were the first ones to say that amber is good for your skin.

And I think we're still the only light therapy. This is True Light a company. My friend Alan's running it now. I'm still a shareholder. We're the only light panel out there. It's still at the lower end of the price curve. And it's got both reds, infrared and amber. Because the studies in amber have been out for 10 plus years and you're the only person who's talked about that. I love it.

And actually to your. So if one wanted a crazy strong red light therapy device, they could definitely find more expensive devices than what you're offering. But the good news are as far as, like amber light, there is no one single note lit in the literature that shows that you actually need a lot. You need very little because you're only going to interact with the skin. That wavelength is not really great at kind of penetrating past the skin.

It's just for the skin. And the micro capillaries in the studies, correct?

Yes.

I've also seen studies of UVA and UVB showing actually really strong effects. Moderate to low doses reduce wrinkles and they reduce nearsightedness and they seem to be necessary. So it kind of drives me nuts when people are like, well, UV light is bad, therefore I'll have none. It's sort of like saying, well, I could drown in water, therefore I'll stop drinking it. So I'm a huge fan of that 20 minutes at the beginning of the day, end of the day outdoors. And I also recommend that people don't wear sunglasses because the eyes are seeing what color it is. And they're probably working via the central timing clock to tell the body what compounds to make in response to the sunlight. Most of the studies showing UVA and UVB harm to cells are done in cells that don't have red and infrared, all the stuff. So sunlight has a different effect. What is the minimum effective dose of sunlight that might be good for your skin and what is the point at which it definitely becomes bad?

This is a very nuanced answer because the darker you are, the more sun you need, but also the higher the UV index, the less you need. So if I can find it, I'll send it to you. I actually have an algorithm that you crunch in your. Was it what's called a Fitzpatrick skin type?

It's like, how dark are you?

How dark you are? And there is a funny way to find out nuances to that, which is looking at your areola, because it means, like, how your. What is kind of your other limit, because your. If your areola is very dark, it means that you're. You can produce a lot of pigment, basically. And the other thing is UV index, where you are in the world, and UV index, and you get some kind of blurb of how much sun you should get. But it. You know, funny enough, it's like seven to 12 minutes. That's the range that people are gonna get.

Okay. Seven to 12 minutes, depending on the intensity of the sun. So if it's morning or evening, it's probably longer.

Correct. So that's in either 10 or 4. That's the. Oh, and what time of day it is. So 10 and 4 are the times that I think you should aim at.

Or maybe a little bit before, depending on when sunrises.

Correct. Yes.

Got it. This is, like, really detailed information, but if you're a biohacker, you want to know, like, what's the best thing to do? And maybe you go out at 11 and you just get a little bit less. Like, it doesn't have to be perfect. It just wants to be in that.

Correct. And because there are. So why did we even evolve to react to red and near infrared? And that is because these wavelengths don't get absorbed in water very well. So when you're. I mean, anyone who looked at sunrises and sunsets, they know that they're more prominent, predominant there. And less blue light is less. Right, right. So your body absorbs a lot of red and near infrared. If you are exposing it early enough in the day to that light. And as we. As I quoted the study before, it can then deal with more sun, kind of if you are getting exposed to that 11 or even 12. But if you are working on your computer and then you're like, oh, yeah, I remember. I need to get some sunlight. And you're getting out there at 12, your body is completely shocked. And by the way, you mentioned the eyes. So every part of your body did not prepare for this today.

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One of the things that makes me really happy is when supplements kick pharmaceuticals ass. And I've got something for you. It's called C15 from a company called Fatty 15 and it's more effective than metformin or rapamycin. In fact, scientists are calling this newly discovered essential fat the longevity nutrient because it's the first essential fat to be discovered in the last 90 years. C15 is unlike anything else out there because it's a true geroprotector, meaning it actually slows biological aging in studies. How does that work? By strengthening your cell membranes by 80%, activating amp K and MTOR, which you've read about in my books. That means less inflammation and a reduction of oxidative stress by 45%. Scientists have found over 36 clinically relevant health benefits from fatty 15. Public estimates are that 1 in 3 people have low C15 levels in their bodies. And if you don't have enough C15, you have fragile cells and you age more quickly. Fatty 15 supports your cells better than omega 3s or fish oil with three times more benefits for your cells. I use both. In clinical studies, 72% of fatty 15 users report reported deeper sleep, better mood, healthier joints and better energy improvement in 16 weeks. It's a pretty incredible story and it's real. Better yet, they're giving you 15% off their 90 day subscription starter kit. Just go to fatty15.com Dave, you might notice in the studio there's red and amber lighting around because we're also exposed to the studio lights. That's not by accident. Those are actually true light products as well. And guys, I'm not trying to get you to buy true light stuff. Just saying there's a reason that things look the way they are in my environment because I believe in setting it up. Is that Enough to counteract these really bright studio lights? Probably not, but it's enough to at least help. I think it is, yeah.

100%. And I think you, you know, I'm sure you're. You are offsetting it as much as possible by being outside, by waking up early enough, you know, exposing your eyes first thing in the morning to sun. So there is a. It's not like, think the other side of what we're running the risk of is kind of overanalyzing, like over obsessing about things. So we're going to be here for an hour or two, then you go outside and you get some sunlight.

Okay. I've heard you say that you can double red light therapy results. How do you do it?

So one thing. So then we can ask ourselves, why are the results there? Or what's stopping us from just getting results by. By being in front of a panel for like, the whole day?

Right.

So two things. So what red light does basically increases the amount of oxygen your mitochondria can use and it spits out nitric oxide. So maybe I should start by saying when you create energy and your mitochondria, you have some mitochondrial dysfunction. You are creating nitric oxide in the mitochondria. Nitric oxide in the mitochondria is a negative. And that is because it kind of the oxygen molecule there docks on where oxygen would have been utilized, called cco, cytochrome C oxidase. What red light does predominantly, obviously we talked about other things, but predominantly it breaks the bond between nitric oxide and CCO and spits out the nitric oxide, which then you get the benefits of nitrous.

So you get blood flow, you get circulation in the cell, and too much nitric oxide makes peroxy nitrite, which is the worst free radical for metabolism.

Yeah.

Can we stop that?

Yes. So, so, so we can, we can mitigate some of that. And by, by the way, your body does it with sod, which is its kind of own. We, we talk about glutathione a little. But SOD is, as far as the skin is concerned, a much bigger player in, in antioxidant responses. Another thing that happens is relating to oxidative stress is you're releasing reactive oxygen species of or ROS from the mitochondria outwards. These are your two cues for your body to say, hey, I'm creating a lot of energy. It doesn't know you've provided red light. Right. I'm creating a lot of energy. And here are the waste materials that you could gauge the amount of energy like us guys gauging the amount of people in a party by clicking the clicker thingy.

Okay.

I always ask them, by the way, what's the. So your body has safe kind of stop gaps to stop reaction to red light because of that.

Okay.

What we can do is first of all kind of stop the reactive oxygen. So eliminate the reactive oxygen species. And you mentioned some of them, but we have like a few categories by using very specific antioxidants. One of them is ergothioneine, which is a specific mitochondrial antioxidant. EGCG is another one that people could do at home. They can literally brew green tea and spray it on their face after it's cooled down, by the way. That's another thing you could do. You could just drink a lot of green tea.

But you put EGCG in your stuff, right?

Yeah. But now, now we're using more advanced ones.

Okay.

EGCG limits you a lot in what you can put with it because it's so reactive.

Okay, got it.

And we're even working on putting SOD in products.

I, I love sod as a. As a compound on the skin. SOD is so potent at scavenging free radicals that I've taken it orally and it just wrecks me for days. Because you need enough free radicals for mitochondria to function. Because if you fully suppress oxidation, the ox redox reaction that makes life happen will be suppressed.

Yes. You also need it. So a lot of times we say the reactive oxygen species are bad. Their movement is good. So the movement of from mitochondria out outwards and different tissues in the body is actually a trigger to things like NF Kappa beta, which is kind of the master switch of inflammation or some other factors like enzymes that repair DNA. We actually want them to move around. And that is one of the hidden benefits of, of the keto diet, by the way, is what? Yeah, the movement of reactive oxygen species. Okay. But. So that's one aspect of how we can improve red light therapy because we stop the cue to stop reacting to red light therapy. The other thing is we use a principle that allows more photons to be created. So we use a derivative of an algae that's photoluminescent that can create photons, that creates amber light photons, by the way. 535.

What do you have to do to make it create the amber? Do you have to give it.

You have to expose. You have to kind of give it a photon and then it creates it Allows the photons to continue and creates another one.

So you have a compound in Young Goose that when you're exposed to light, it makes amber light directly on the skin.

Yeah. It's called Spirulina ap. And it's from Spirulina, but it's called Spirulina.

Cool.

Yeah. You can't just have spirulina applied on the face. It, by the way, makes your face sense. Sensitive. We need to, like, take this specific compound and, you know, purify. Yeah. Purified. And. And have it in enough dosage, like many other things, in order for it to be effective. Wow. And the third thing are those lysosomes, or DNA repair enzymes that are photoactivated. So these three things together do more than double the effects of red light therapy. But we say double in order not to. In order to have, like a. A conversation, something that people can understand, and it's conservative. Okay. Yeah.

So to do that, you put this combination. It's the latter product. You put that on your face, and then you do red light therapy, and.

Then you do red light therapy. And one of the cool things that it does is that it also helps you create more nad. Most of the discussion around nad, I know you like Qualia, for example.

Sure.

So Qualia does something really cool with their NAD supplements where we're saying, we're not going to only give you NAD precursors. We're going to help them kind of move along.

Yeah.

Another thing you can do, and topically, it's a little bit. You need to make sure that you're using ingredients that have really high impact at low percentages, at low concentrations. One thing you can do is use herbal extracts that stimulate NA amp, which is the recycling pathway, the salvage pathway of an idiot. That's another way to increase NAD in the body. So we give NAD precursors, but we also help the body make more nad, which is very important, especially when you use red light therapy, because you want the body to respond to it better.

So it's interesting, Qualia just published studies showing that the combination of stuff they're doing increases nad levels by 67% in your cells, which is way more than normal precursors do. But if you want to get it in your skin, you go from the outside in, and that's the Young Goose approach. So that's. That's pretty elegant.

Yeah. And we work. I mean, we ever. If you ask people who work for Qualia, they use Young Goose, we use Qualia, they recommend us a lot. We recommend them.

Okay.

I would also Say that what Qualia does. That is interesting. And it's not. I mean, shouting out my personal friends. What they're doing is interesting because a lot of the times when you just look at tests, like over the counter NAD tests, they test NAD circulating in.

Your body, which doesn't mean it got into cells.

Actually, one could argue that an ineffective NAD supplement would do a better job with that test because. Oh, it doesn't. You're. You're not getting it into your cell. That's one of the knocks on a lot of the spermidine naysayers, or they're saying, hey, we don't see a lot of. Or by the way, Nadiv naysayers, where they're saying, hey, we can see a lot of it in the blood. That's. You're not saying anything there, by the way.

It's kind of funny. In the early days of the keto movement, I notice once I'm used to it, my ketone levels are gonna be around 1, maybe 1.5, but not higher. And you get these new people go, I got my ketone levels up to four. Like, congratulations, you haven't learned how to metabolize ketones. Because people who have flexible metabolism, ketones will be sucked out of your blood into your mitochondria.

Yeah.

It's the same with blood sugar. Oh, my blood Sugar levels are 300. Great. You have diabetes. It means that you're not doing a good job energetically.

Exactly.

So the idea that if you put it in the body and it doesn't end up in the blood. Well, either went into your cells or you pooped it out.

Yes.

Okay. Yeah, got it. It's so fascinating. What is the single most powerful skin care ingredient that no one's talking about yet?

Spermidine. Definitely. Is that.

Okay, cool.

Unfortunately, we've built a company around nad, and it took us. I mean, I talked with you first about having spermidine in our skincare products in Orlando. 2021.

Yeah.

Right. So. But we started research 2014. So it took us seven years to realize that there is a stronger compound that would promote, you know, youthful function in the skin. The reason is, is because what we want to do in the end of the day, and we talked about mitochondrial function, for example, that is 1 out of 12 hallmarks of aging. Or, you know, if you ask, really ask me, I claim that there are about 24, but let's say 12.

Okay.

The better you, or the more profoundly and better you cover more of those hallmarks of aging, the better the compound, especially in skincare because at the end of the day, you are limited to how much things you can put in a product. So if I've only eliminated senescence, so, so we have a product called Procare. All it does is eliminate senescent cells most of the time. If you ask me what product I should use, that's not going to be the first product I recommend or even I don't recommend it to use it all the time, because you are focused on one factor that is a, your, you're, you're, you are trying to, you know, treat a fire that is one of many fires, and you, you're not even catching the person who started it.

Got it.

So climbing more upstream, trying to deal with things that are more effective in many levels of skin issues is where you want to go then if you want to look at specific genes and how they function. So we have a nick product, for example, that specifically has an ingredient called aquaxyl, which is a type of sugar complex that only acts on 10 different hydration genes.

Okay.

Upregulates them. You don't need this in any other products that you would use. I would argue not everyone even needs it at all. Okay.

Okay.

But what you would need definitely is spermidine or NAD precursors or a, a ferment of a bacteria that would protect your, your, your proteins from the onslaught of the environment, which we've talked about. Ectoin.

Now I get a little confused because there's a whole bunch of products. Right. So you have a senolytic, kind of like quality senolytic. You take it two days a month?

Yes.

How often with Young Goose for your topical senolytic? Is this like once a week? Once every couple days.

So I recommend going through a bottle just to make things easy on people and have a fresh product as well, which is important. I recommend going through a bottle. It's going to take you about a month or 45 days, and then not using again for six months.

Okay. You'd make more money if you said to use it all the time, but you're just being honest.

I would have made much more money if I didn't speak at all. How about that?

There you go. Telling people what works at the right doses. It's the only ethical thing to do.

Yeah.

And if they get results, I believe people are smart enough to come back. You know, even if Young Goose is not the cheapest product out there, you can get some whatever, oil of a layer or something, it doesn't work. So the difference is, is noticeable. So kind of Walk me through the stack. So if I'm all right, you've dropped tons of ingredients. What is the combination? Like, what do I put on when.

Okay, so I'll go with a very basic stack, and then I will go with the real biohacker kind of stack. So the basic stack is we have a cleanser that you, you need to tell me if, to, if, if I could just name the, the enzyme and if it would make a difference in people's ears. So it eliminates CD38.

Okay.

So.

So longtime listeners have heard me talk about CD38. If you take NAD, it increases CD38, which is pro inflammatory, so you have to block CD38. So your cleanser blocks this pro inflammat effect of high NAD.

Correct. And also, by the way, CD38, I call it NAD, PAC man. The reason to begin with, that it interacts with nad. It's. It has crazy high affinity to nad. So if you have a lot of it naturally, maybe, by the way, E. Coli from, you know, leafy greens or however you got E. Coli into your, maybe hummus, how you got it into your system raises significantly CD38. So if you have high CD38, it begets the fact that you have low NAD. So by eliminating CD38, we're doing two things. We're covering our behinds in two cases. First of all, we want to have more nad, so we want to eliminate that. On the other hand, because we're giving you more nad, we really want to make sure that you don't have enough. You don't have a lot of CD38.

Okay, so I use the cleanser first, cleanser second.

Then if you wanted specifically to. Well, let's talk about basic. Basic. You use a Youth Reset serum, which is a serum that drives extremely deeply all of those ingredients that we mentioned before, anything from ectoin to spermidine to NAD precursors, the ability to recycle nad, copper peptides, ergothioneine, thd.

A pretty broad spectrum.

Yes.

Okay, so I'm going to wash my face with the CD38 blocking thing.

Yeah.

And then I'm going to add the serum.

Yeah. Amplifying. Sorry. Our cleanser is called adaptogenic Cleanser. Then we're going to use the, the Youth Reset Serum. Youth Daily Moisturizer. As I mentioned before, a lot of those ingredients, you actually don't necessarily want them to completely bypass your skin barrier or to bypass the stratum corneum, which is like the topmost layer of your skin. So what a good moisturizer would do is not necessarily provide hydration to your skin, by the way, it is. Products don't really do that. You cannot provide hydration to the skin, period. That's not where hydration is being supplied to begin with. It's. That's from your bloodstream. But what you can do is block a lot of hydration exiting your skin.

So seal the barrier.

So trans epidermal water loss.

Okay.

So we want to do that, but we also want to provide those NAD precursors, spermidine, all of those things to top layers of the skin to make sure that you have a strong skin barrier, strong structure on top of your skin, which provides also a robust protection for your skin.

So now I've got cleanser, I've got serum, and then I've got moisturizer. And I do that in the morning.

You do, you do it in the morning? Yeah.

And what about this latter stuff you talked about?

Ladder is only when you do red light therapy.

Okay.

Or if someone is just, you know, I don't want to bother using red light therapy. You could use that as your serum because it's going to be activated to some extent by the, by the light of the sun. Okay. And then hopefully you use BioShield SPF 40, which is our sunblock that also protects against these other environmental factors, blue light, EMF, etc. That's in the morning. If you were very really in a rush. You know what, just use youth daily, the moisturizer and get out of the house. Or don't even wash your face in the morning like I do.

Is it okay to just mix all this, not the cleanser, but to just mix everything in my hand and smear it on? Because I find it really irritating to have to mix like six things one at a time.

Okay.

Yes.

So you mentioned before that you don't only use yungoos and I think it's really cool. Again, I can make more money if I don't speak, but I think when we designed our products, we designed them with the understanding that we want to allow you to use other products. There are other companies that say, hey, don't use products before you use my product, or wait 30 minutes before everyone's.

Going to say that if they're just acting commercially. My biohacker mind, it's like, you know what, there's a peptide and I'm actually going to say it like the one skin. Oh, it's one. It's a great peptide. It has clinical studies. I have no issues with putting that on and using Young goose. In fact, I think it's a really good idea.

Shout out to one skin. Yeah. By the way, since it's a moisturizer, you would want to maybe use it after 30 minutes after. No, no, no. It's a cream base. So you don't want to use it before serums because it's actually cream bases in general. In general are designed to be stay more on the top of the skin.

Yeah. They're going to stop the serum from penetrating. So serum first.

Yes. So but serums in general, because we have the senolytic serum, we have you three set serum. We have a serum for specifically to fix hydration or for pigmentation or things like that. Me, if I'm going through something because I have melasma. So if I was in jiu jitsu, I got cut in my face and now I look like a zebra. I'm going to mix a few serums in my hands, apply them together on my face, my moisturizer and the BioShield SPF 40, I mix them together. So yes, you could definitely do that. In the evening, I'll give you something cool to propagate. Because we talked about sleep and the importance of sleep. Your body is much better at creating collagen during sleep between 10 to to midnight. So if you are specifically interested in skin health, you should be asleep at that time.

Okay.

Beautiful. Yeah. So in the evening, this protocol is very similar, but instead of you could use more serums for one, you could use an essence before the serums. That's called amplifying essence. And that is a crazy hydration multiplier. So it actually helps your body create much more hydration. Express hyaluronic acid genes as an example, has much more ectoin because we don't have other actives there. So we can put more ecto in there. And at the end of your routine, the product that kind of made us famous to begin with, it's called the hyperbaric mask. It's a gel that you apply after your moisturizer. You leave it overnight and it activates the same pathways that would have been activated if you were in a red light, if you were in a hyperbaric chamber. It doesn't push, it doesn't push more oxygen to the skin. It doesn't. Which is a negative, by the way. You don't want a lot of oxygen applied to the skin. But what it does, it activates all of the pathways. Nrf2, Sirtuins, a few other ones. But it also helps your mitochondria metabolize oxygen better or utilize oxygen better because as we grow older, it costs more energy to create energy. So we lower the cost of energy to create energy emitay.

You guys are doing some incredibly high end things around skincare at Young Goose. And if you're listening to the show right now, this guy knows what he's talking about. Like the cutting edge longevity molecules that most listeners have heard about, because I've done deep podcasts, multiple ones on most of the compounds you've talked about, and you have some new ones I haven't heard of, which is pretty unusual. So there are people who are just masters of an area of biohacking who are going deep and making things you could have made 10 years ago because we didn't have the science, we didn't have the abilities. So this is something that I use. And you can tell when you talk to a founder of a company, are they real? And my job is to curate people who are real and who are studied and knowledgeable so you can learn what works and you can decide, look, this belongs in my stack or it doesn't, right? To the extent even of saying, hey, it's okay to use other stuff. With my product, my experience with you over the many years, you just want people to be healthy via any means necessary, yours or another, and I share that. And you never have to drink Danger coffee. You never have to buy a Young Goose, but if you do, you might like what happens and that's the bottom line and you should know why and you judge for yourself. You know, was there a lot of science that's valid and relevant and useful? There is. And I don't know of anything out there that I could put on my skin that has the broad spectrum number of ingredients you do as well as the science behind them. So like you said, this is kind of like the qualia of skin care. And Yungoos has improved so dramatically since that first stuff that I tried years ago, which did work. You could see it after a week, and it's just a whole nother level, a whole order of magnitude above. So thanks for making good stuff, continuously improving it, and talking about the science. I genuinely appreciate you coming out.

Thank you.

And I'll see you at the biohacking conference, sir. And as usual, guys, you know that people come on the show to talk about their creations, they offer you a discount. So go to young goose.com, use code DAVE10, and they'll give you 10% off and pick a product and try it, and there's a Full explanation on younggoose.com telling you what each one does or get the whole bundle with all the cool stuff that I use. See you next time on the Human Upgrade Podcast.

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