The Cheat Codes That Get You to Soul Force – Jamie Wheal, Part 4 with Dave Asprey : 849

When Jamie Wheal comes on Bulletproof Radio, we always get into some mind bending topics. And that's why our interview about hedonic engineering ended up being a multi episode miniseries for you. Because it was more than would fit in one episode or fit in your head all at one time. We pull apart his book, recapture the rethinking God's sex and death in a world that's lost its mind. So if you care about neuroscience and psychology, listen to these episodes. You're going to like what you hear.

Bulletproof Radio a state of high performance.

All right, so we reset our brain stem that way or. No, that was still getting out of beta. And what's the brain stem reset? Part of the recipe.

Well, that is just a seeming correlate. Right. Because if you look at the benefits when folks have been looking and there's been more and more research in the last few years on, on both ketamine, nitrous oxide, but also trans T, L, N S. So transling trans TDCs.

No, no, it's translingual.

Like the translingual neurostimulation.

Yeah, that is. Where can you do that? I've been wanting that for a long time.

In Vancouver, our buddy Ryan Darcy is one of Canada's top TBI neuroscientists and they are running the phase three clinical trials on the PONS device. And it is a tongue paddle and you, and you put it on your tongue because the tongue goes straight to your cranial nerves of which there's 10. And, and basically what they found, they started the trial is for als, so literally like neurodegenerative stuff. But then they also started using it for traumatic brain injuries. And then they started using it for performance enhancing. And what Darcy found was he's like, oh, that stimulation, even if you're like targeting the trigeminal nerve or something really specific for a very focused intervention, you get a global system reset of the brainstem. Just, you know, of, of all the things. And he said it's equivalent to a glitchy computer and you hitting the power off button and then it coming back neutral and, and reorganizing.

That's cool. We, we found some frequencies that we use to do something similar. I'm going with electricity on the head. If you play the right frequencies, you get a kind of a reboot thing. It's, it's pretty remarkable.

Yeah.

But I'm gonna start licking batteries at home.

There you go. It's a scattershot approach, but it's fun while it lasts.

But this is for like, okay, let's go to a Vancouver based tongue neuroscientist or a crazy place in Seattle. What do normal people do to reset the brainstem?

Well, I mean, the interesting thing is that both ketamine and nitrous oxide also do that.

Got it. So little bump of K is what you're saying?

Well, I mean, you, you know, working with a doctor, you can get intranasal oxytocin, ketamine spray, for instance. I mean, in fact, we can, we can back it all off. So I, I wrote these protocols stripped of an actual how to, because the actual how to is just scandalous. So, but, but we.

You're gonna have to tell it here, my friend.

I totally will. I totally will. I've been itching to. I, I, I feel like I'm like a leprechaun and someone just needs to ask me the appropriate question. But basically that idea of like, oh, we've got how do you get into delta? How do you reset your brainstem? And those two things often are paired, right? In a brainstem reset, you often have that experience of delta waves activity. And while you're at it, why don't we optimize the other neurochemistry that we've been talking about? Let's boost vagal nerve tone. And vagal nerve tone you can do with fancy subcutaneous little pacemaker devices on your clavicle and various other high tech things. So there's always those options. Or you can massage your throat, you can goggle, you can sing, you can even.

Tibetan throat singing.

Yeah, you can even engage in. I mean, this is why autoerotic asphyxiation, you know, is a thing.

You keep going back to that stuff, man.

I know what you're into. I know. No, I mean, I'm. I'm as vanilla as they come, but I'm. But I'm curious.

That's the biggest load of crap I've ever heard. My vanilla is made out of cayenne. You are right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I'm just, I'm just without filters and forever curious that that's.

There you go. Try anything once I hear you.

Yeah, so then, so let's just finish out the list and then we can talk about a practical.

Okay, Good deal. Okay, so you got reset your brain. Your brain said then pulse energy. What does that one mean?

Yeah, so basically anything that loads and stimulates the nervous system. So it could be neuro, it could be electricity, you know, DC or ac. It could be percussive vibration like a. Theragun or something like that.

It could be, except the theragun's noisy and hurts. That's like the lowest end of all the massage percussion devices out there that.

The first ice.

That thing kicks ass.

The first version of the theragun sucked and I told him, I was like, guys, this looks like, you know, like, like a, like a Salzall fucked a tennis ball. Like, are you guys kidding me? Like, this is the opposite of relaxing. But their new one is badass and it's super powerful and quiet.

I've not experience is the new one really. Mostly, mostly bruises and unpleasantness. My, my kids won't let me use that one on them, so I gave it away. But we have several other brands that we, that we've had good results with.

Yeah, yeah. So, so you know any, basically any of those things, you can throw in magnetic stimulation, you could throw in ultrasound and you can also throw in any form of sensory stimulation.

Maybe light therapy that pulses. What do you. What could that.

Yeah, I mean, quite possibly.

Well, that's one of my companies, Trulite, we do that. And yeah, you put that over your gut or your heart and you feel it. There is, there's definitely energy pulsing there when you do that whole body vibration. Certainly that's one of the things I've been doing for 10 years and probably just jumping up and down for a while. Like doing a bunch of squats is going to do something here, right?

Yep. And then, but. And then also pain and then also orgasm. So you're like, okay, so that's a wide spectrum of things to do to both load and then pulse signal through an attuned and prime nervous system, which tends to show up in two ways. At the bodily level. It shows up as, you know, it's sending signals back and forth. So there's a degree of kind of nerve communication and conductivity and potentially. And this is TBD on the. Confirming the research, but increased myelination, you're just signaling ping ak, you know, back and forth between more of yourself at higher voltage than you would typically. And that energy from a subjective perspective almost always includes information. It's not a, it's not a content neutral state. So you're, you're, you're loading that system. You're creating a peak experience that you send through your body and brain and it lights up your body and brain. And there is a narrative. There's. There's impressions, there's stories, there's characters, there's insights, there's. Whatever else would be the interior content that is Often profoundly valuable and meaningful and very different than our monophasic waking state. Tired, wired and stressed, stuck in my ego stories.

Okay, I, I like that. And pulsing energy. There's so many different ways to do it, so it's hard to say one thing, but that was a pretty good exhaustive list. I hope, actually there will be a transcript for people listening and yeah, we'll make sure there's notes for this. And then after that, you have engage in aligned spine, pelvis, limbs and soft tissue. So is this like functional movement? Is this massage? What does that mean?

Yeah, I mean, I mean, yes to all of those things. So anything from Thai massage where, you know, like, with partners, you're like leveraging your long bones and providing traction, opening up joint capsules. You could use foam rollers and props and supports. You could engage in static active passive stretching. You could, you know, any of those things that basically gets us out of desk bound, you know, hyper conditioned zoo animals. And one of our functional med docs who works deeply in, you know, fascia sliding surfaces of our body, all of that kind of stuff, she's been doing neurological stimulation of people's pelvic floors, men and women, and has found in six years, she has only found one person that had a properly integrated, aligned and firing pelvic floor. Yeah, but I mean, back to engage in a line, right? If we think of the fascia, arguably, I mean, some folks make the case that it is an actual entire bodily organ. So if anybody's ever had raw chicken and you see the little wibbly, wobbly bits and that kind of white filmy stuff, that's the fascia. And it is typically a sliding surface. But when we get injured, it fuses and knits together to protect that area. And then we heal, but the clump stays. So when you see cats and everybody, you know, and babies, you know, I mean, I, we were massaging our kids, I'm like, oh my God, you guys feel like veal. Like, like there's, there's no lumps. You're not, you know, you're not like jerky. And so by make, you know, increasing and, and breaking up clogged fascia and increasing the sliding surfaces, we literally get back into the present in our bodies. And if we take a look at our ligaments and tendons and those kind of things, we're effectively like banjos or suspension bridges. We're just cables and pulleys. And most of us are massively out of whack, predominantly from our sedentary and seated lives. So if we change and release and align those things. Wouldn't you know it, there's a psychosomatic component. We actually feel different and better and more balanced, grounded and aligned.

And if this sounds, you know, shocking or unusual, pretty much every, every one of the ancient traditions I've done work in, whether it's shamanism or yoga stuff at Tibetan monasteries, how you sit, alignment there, there is electrical stuff that flies up your spine and if it's off, a really good master is going to sit there and say, no, pull your ribs in a quarter inch and they're going to move you so you can have a certain experience. And as a Westerner growing up, I would have thought that was all complete garbage. It's just they all do it, even if they don't know each other. And they have for thousands of years, I think because it works okay. There's two more that run their breathe in deliberate patterns, which we've talked about, then play powerful music. And we've talked about that to a certain extent, like holotropic breathing, you know, movie soundtrack music, powerful evocative rave. Any kind of particular powerful music that's best?

Well, I mean obviously stuff you like to listen to, but I would say that polyrhythmic and syncopated is especially good. So think the same way. You talked about that Russian electrical stim, like distracting part of your brain. Brain with another part. So if you have jiggy beats, right, where you've got different musical parts doing different things together such that it occupies your conscious processing and drops you into trance state. There was a reason that the Grateful Dead had two drummers and a six string bass player for their rhythm section, right? Because then everything that happened on top it like it was all. It was so much going on that under the influence of psychedelics and dancing, right, People would. And then they would be primed and for lyrics. So you can go one or two ways on this. You can either go, you know, otherworldly EDM with hyper beats and syncopation and that definitely works as a psychotech and you've been to Burning man, so you've stood in front of some of those Function 1 sound systems and experienced quite a while, right? And on the other hand you can go with basically, you know, redemption songs like, like songs that work as living scripture, such that if, if you find yourself transported into a receptive non ordinary state and then comes through lyrics that just unlock like a living Cohen. I mean, it's that old Dylan tune Tangled up in Blue, you know, where he sings, he says every One of them words rang true. They glowed like burning coals, leaping off of every page like they were written in my soul. So those ones, right, you know, you want to. You want to have the songs that speak to the human condition as you experience it, or as a genius has phrased it, that works really well too.

So I. I would have sworn that bluegrass would be the opposite of all this. And. And I've always freaking hated bluegrass. Like, it just makes me want to punch people. My dad plays bluegrass, but he didn't when I was a kid. So it's not trauma based, but there's been a couple times when the music is really complex and maybe I was really tired or something and all of a sudden I'm like, wow, my brain's doing that thing where it can't keep track of all the rhythms. So I'm not recommending that. That should be like number 27 on your list of musics to try.

But there might be something there. I mean, I'm just gonna have to stand up and testify, right? I mean, the Telluride Bluegrass Festival, right, is a long standing tradition of that. And then when we went to grad school in Boulder and we lived up in the mountains above Boulder, and they would have these full moon polyethnic Cajun slamgrass throwdowns in these old stage tops, it was like all the Wookiees would come out of the mountains and it was. And it was literally like devil went down to Georgia level shit. And everybody's smoking tons of weed out of their trees on mushrooms. Like, it was very, very psychedelic. And then. And they would be playing this, these 19th century Celtic tunes, but with an absolute psychedelic bent. And that worked too. So. So it doesn't all have to be like trip hop, edm. It doesn't have to be space age. There's beautiful and brilliant. I mean, hell, man, Ghanaian, like West African polyrhythms, Babatunde, you know, Olatunji. Like, there's plenty of ripping jams in the world music tradition.

Anything North African is going to be cool. Anything from the Bedouin people does that pretty much by default.

Yeah. I mean, the ragas, the Hindu ragas are staggering, staggeringly potent. They're literally like sonic incantations of deities. And you're like, whoa, whoa, I didn't know music could do that. And you actually see them invoked and you learn the story behind that particular ragger and you're like, this is ridiculous. Psychotech. Like, I didn't even know that was possible.

I am. I'm also getting Some feedback from our upgrade collective people. They're saying the Afro Kelt sound system is what we should do. There you go. Gaelic and West African with electronic music. Exactly. I'm so looking this up.

That's exactly what I like. I'll save your research. So Peter Gabriel, this is a deep cut. Peter Gabriel did a beautiful tune with them with Africa sound system.

Of course he did.

Peter Gabriel's awesome called when you're falling and it's bad to the bone. So good.

Thanks, Joanna. Jim, that was an amazing find there. I'm going to do it. Oh, that was in his real world thing. Okay, I got it. Okay, so now we've got all of our nine points and we've talked. Basically, you should be having some kinky sex with electricity on your tongue, doing nitrous kids, getting a spanking, listening to music and aligning your spine while pulsing your energy and getting out of beta waves and taking a bong hit.

Yeah, I think I got it all pretty much. And.

All right.

And see, but here's the thing, right? What this amounts to is partner practice. Because you need a special friend. This is truly friends with or two or three, right? I mean, no, see, I think we're just not that good at it yet. Like maybe a couple of generations downstream, but I would say that most folks dabbling in poly right now are actually getting pulled off the path.

You're totally right. I 100% agree with you.

And more to the point, like, if you can't, like, all I know is this is, this is a full tilt project. So here's what it looks like. So here's what it looks like. What it looks like is you have a special friend, you engage in your practice, you create a bedroom space, candles, music, the normal vibey things, possibly some olfactory stimulation, clean incense, that kind of thing. So you've got a nice, rich sensorial chamber. You engage in the practice. You engage in. And by the way, the sexuality can be pulled completely out of it. You don't have to do it at all. It can be completely clothes on and just. You just back off 50% of the efficacy. But if you. If you're ready, like, we're just talking about the full Monty. We're talking about the full Monty. But if any part of this wigs you out, just don't do that part. And all you have to do is do the other parts longer or more intensely. So that's. That's this kind of sliding scale of, like, challenge by choice. But basically, yeah, you, you and then you. You could ingest an edible, do something that you know because it takes 30, 40 minutes to kick in. You can engage in sexual arousal, you can engage in soft tissue body work, all of these kind of things. You can get somebody to edging of orgasm. Then you do a 52.1 protocol where you hyperventilate for 50 breaths. You then take two inhalations of pure oxygen, and then you take one inhalation of nitrous oxide. And then you engage in static apnea, which would be maximum breath hold for the maximum time. And at that point you can engage in pleasure, pain, stimulation and potentially orgasmic priming while timing that with the peak of kick ass music. So the drop, right? The drop where the music just gets sideways and super funky.

I'm pretty sure we just hit the explicit lyrics thing on itunes.

Yeah, who knows? But here's what will happen, right? And we found this out via this anesiology study at mit, which is the. And you can, you can also do this with ketamine and oxytocin as well. But the nitrous oxide will put you into a double amplitude waking Delta State for three to 12 minutes. So basically you've done all of that loading, you've done all of the things, you've helped, you've helped move and open the body as it's needed and is intuitively felt and expressed. And you've, you've sent a peak of energy through that person's nervous system. So you take turns slingshotting each other into a period of weightlessness and thoughtlessness where you actually have access to what we've been loosely just calling as a placeholder, the information layer. Some people would have called that all sorts of metaphysical things, all sorts of religious things, all sorts of cultural things. But we're just like, it's just a super dense place of cognition and perception where you can think anything you want about anything you can think of with a 300 IQ for three to 12 minutes. And you're like, holy shit, why isn't this on the COVID of Time magazine? And at the other end of it, you're nervous, you've had that global system reboot, you're relaxed, you're aligned, you're often inspired and awestruck, and you're profoundly connected to your traveling partner. And then you take turns and return the favor. And so that is, effectively with a whole bunch of mashups and a whole bunch of liberties taken, is the distillation of death rebirth rituals from around the world from the. For the last 5,000 years. And you're like, holy shit. Like, you know, every society has had these death rebirth rituals. Why? Because when we're born the first time, we didn't choose it. We, you know, we. Unless you believe in some, you know, elaborate, you know, pre birth selection thing, most of us are just like, holy shit, how did I get here? We get spat out into the world and the world kind of sucks and it's harsh and it's not nearly as friendly as that womb was. And then I have to go to high school and graduate from college. I get kicked out of my house and. And the world's not nearly as friendly as my house was. And we're forever getting pushed into this thing. We didn't necessarily truly consent to showing up in this world. So many of us try and bypass it, we try and escape it. We get intoxicated, we seek distractions and diversions. We're forever trying to bargain of like, fuck this, I want out. I want better, I want different. And these death rebirth rituals, right, allow us to truly go to that place of dying. It's the closest thing like that delta wave signature is the closest we can get to a near death experience, an nde without rolling the dice on physical death, which would be a dumb, high risk move. And what it offers us is a chance to return to this life having truly stepped away from ourselves and our bodies and actually come back with choice, with a full fuck yes to say. And this is Dorothy and the wizard of Oz. This is Jimmy Stewart in A Wonderful Life. This is Ebenezer Scrooge on Christmas morning. We know all the stories. You have to go away. You have to have your mind blown to come back and go, you mean I get another crack? You mean I actually get to come back to this body of mine that I've been waging war on and hating and all these things and I get to show up for life and I and my senses is like that's the missing piece that we need to share and propagate is why I took a ridiculous crack at it in this book, which was if we want to try and become a Megans at the end of time, right? If we want a critical mass of humans who have become fearless, we're no longer just seeking pleasure and avoiding pain from our firstborn life, but we've actually shown up fearless, ballsy, courageous, creative, playful as twice born humans, right? By choice. That's where we have that. Like our ace in the hole is what Martin Luther King called soul Force, right? He's like, when we can meet, when we can meet, take, or rise to the majestic heights of soul force and defeat physical force. Right. Then we have a chance. So this is a super specific, but I think critical piece of our global collective challenge and crisis. Our culture wars, our meaning crisis, all of these things, which is, hey, we all need to heal ourselves and each other. And here is the most simple, most accessible, most powerful method that humans have ever developed. And here's the cheat codes to everybody. And let's get on this, because when we come back into this second try, we're already dead men walking. We know no one gets out of here alive.

I think you should have sold the cheat codes to maybe the next Catholic church or something, because they've got all the other cheat codes locked up in the Vatican library that we're not allowed to read. The ones they stole from cultures all over the planet. Exactly. I guess. I like it. They're open, sourcing the cheat codes. That's pretty cool. But there's one thing that comes with that. If you look at, say, Tibetan meditation practices, some of the stuff I learned in Nepal, in that part of the world, there's like the slow path and there's the medium path, and then there's the fast path. And they want. Yeah, you might get enlightened in one lifetime or you'll go batshead crazy. So even traditional meditation practices, a certain percentage of people who start meditating do not do well. They probably shouldn't meditate or they shouldn't meditate the way most people do.

Yes.

So what are the risks of, you know, getting a good spanking on nitrous and all? The entire list, you know, what if it goes wrong? What do you do? What does it look like when it goes wrong?

Yeah, well, I mean, you know, I think. I think Tony Hsieh, the founder of Zappos, who recently tragically died, is an example of that. You have folks that get, you know. Actually, I make a point of describing this after this, the reporting on the study with the couple. Because if you get really good at pushing all the buttons that evolution has encoded into us. The respiration, sexuality, embodiment, substances, music. At first you're like, gee whiz, does this work? You know, and you're like, oh, shit, it totally works. Just like Danny deck chair. You know, like that. That Australian who built. Put all the helium balloons on his. On his lawn chair. And it's like, Holy fuck, I'm 20,000ft off the ground. Right? There's definitely. That happens. And so physical addiction is one thing, psychological addiction is another. But the third, which I think is really important in relationship to like getting access to that information layer is ontological addiction, which is, holy shit, I've got the Galactic Magic 8 Ball, right? I have access. Or the palantir seeing stone in the Lord of the Rings, right? Like I am seeing things that are critically important. And one of the key wobblies that always gets people is. And I'm critically important and I need to keep coming back here to get the rest of the message. And that undoes a lot of intrepid travelers. So it feels essential to be done in community, in relationship and in connection to the rest of our lives and to what matters most. If it's just seeking, for instance, like, I never feel comfortable sharing this with untethered males. I don't. There are so many dudes who aren't grounded by a good woman or a good partner who are just seeking knowledge for knowledge sake. And I would say that's squarely in your category of the ones that come unglued. And the other is, you know, an ethic and a care and a concern which is in service of what? Because it's so easy, like the pretty lights are so stunning and so endlessly diverting that it's incredibly tempting to forget what we came for. It's sort of like, you know, it's like the party at the end of time is almost like, you know, and Burning Man's a good example, right? You could, you could make a case, right, that, that it's got all the things and it is the baddest ass throwdown possible. But actually that raucous ecstatic celebratory side of it is a, is a symptom. It's not the point. The point is opening up portals in non ordinary consciousness and awareness that allow us to remember what we forgot and allow us to heal and integrate and allow us to connect. And if you get sidetracked by the carnival, then you just spin off into the hell realms of sensation seeking and then we just become lizard brain fuck monkeys.

I'm happy you said that. There's just about everything that is on the list can be addictive in and of itself. And when the Internet first was at least, well, not first built at the very, very early days, but before there was a web browser, man, I was seriously addicted. Like I would go through withdrawal when email went down, which happened like every 20 minutes. And there was a time when I got really stressed because I didn't know everything on the Internet because there was a time when you couldn't Know every website. It was pretty amazing. And then all of a sudden, I was stressed for, like, two years. I'm like, oh, my God, there's so much. How will I ever keep up? Right? And that's that. That ring of power thing. And I understand that information addiction. Paulo Coelho, whose name I also always say wrong, but amazing Coelho, really amazing author. He wrote a book called 11 Minutes, which is about, basically, addiction to BDSM.

Oh, no way.

Yeah. Something like 30 books. But I think I have the name of it right. I read it years ago, but it's about a, like, a woman who goes off and, like, decides to have a bunch of sex and ends up, like, falling into bdsm. And a wise old master teaches her stuff about, you know, how addictive it is. So there are people who are fully into that. And, you know, certainly we know about drug addiction. I don't know about anyone who's addicted to breathing.

I think we all know it totally happens.

The breath work addiction.

Yeah, Pranayama and Kriya and all sorts of things as an addiction.

I've never seen that, dude.

And Holotropic Breath of a Cause was outlawed in France and at Esalen for a time period.

Really, I have had more intense holotropic experiences. And of course, I did an event with Stan Grof where we had 150 people doing his breathwork. But I've seen more weird stuff on that than I have on any plant medicine in my life. So it's very powerful. But I wouldn't describe it as addictive. It's like you're worked over when you're done. So I'm surprised, but okay, so just for listeners, upgrade Collective members, you know, tread gently is all I'm saying here. Well, yeah, all these things can be really attractive.

Make haste, make haste slowly. And also never forget in service of what? And so my sense, my advice, I mean, we have a whole program actually, on hedonic calendaring, which is, how do you layer these things in from mild, medium to spicy through your year so that you have guardrails? And you're not forever at war with your lizard brain impulses, because if you just go in freestyle, you're done for. And you can't even be like, oh, I've got my partner. Because your partner could be as into the pudding as you are. Like, are you good? Yeah, I'm good. You want to go back again? Yeah, let's go back again. So you don't even. You can't even trust.

You need a group of Friends who talks about it, a community, right?

And God rails, you need to. It's Ulysses, you know, lashing himself to the mosque and having his sailors and stick wax in their ears so he can hear the siren song. If he's like, no, I'm cool, I'm good. I'm going to be better than those other dumb bastards on the rocks. Then he ends up on the rocks. So you have to do the Ulysses effect and you have to constrain your most vulnerable tendencies ahead of time. So to your point, Dave, I mean, this is the left hand path unpacked with 21st century Western neuroscience and psychology with some anthropological backstory. It is volatile. And the only reason that I was, I don't know, I felt compelled to just take a crack at laying it out was because it feels like the hour is late and the stakes are high and there's all sorts of things and everything from alcohol to oxycontin to, you know, global crises where you're like, the stakes are high. So we actually do need to take responsibility for ourselves, our growth and our path. And these are just tools that people can hopefully skillfully, with each other's support, make use of.

One of the reasons it's called biohacking is that hackers are the ones who said, oh, we don't like not knowing what's inside Windows, let's make Linux. And so we need hackers to make stuff. And if you don't share the knowledge with people, it will be kept in certain places and then used against you. So knowing that something is possible means that you can defend against it and use it for your good versus having it used against you. And so that's part of the whole movement of saying, oh, it is possible to change someone's brain state with flashing lights and loud music. I wonder why they're doing that at the shopping department where they're trying to get me to buy crap like, and they do this stuff. Why are casinos. Why are the way they are? Because they've figured some of this out too. So now, just like with Cialdini's Influence book, if someone's using a technique you don't know exists, you can't defend against it. Once you know it exists, you can use it or you can block it. But that's why this open disclosure is really cool. And that's why Recapture the Rapture is a really fascinating book because you really did boil down a whole lot of stuff to the book. So congratulations. It was definitely a lot of work for you to. To do that. I Can tell.

Thanks man. No, and a wild ride. And a fascinating, fascinating adventure too.

Well, I appreciate you being back on Bulletproof Radio. Would you like to take a question or two from the audience?

Yeah, absolutely.

See, Brandon wants another Harry Potter reference.

I'll give you a Harry Potter reference on the addiction thing because I mentioned it in the book, which is Dumbledore says because Harry finds in the room of Requirement or something the mirror of Erised, which is desire spelled backwards. And, and of course he sees his parents that he's forever yearning for. And, and, and Dumbledore comes up and he's like, be careful Harry. Men have wasted away getting lost in that reflection and that, and that is comparable to getting lost in that information layer because it is so enticing, it is so entrancing and it is so elevating, you know, both of the access to that kind of information but also who am I to have access to that? So a sort of grandiosity. So it really is important to heed Dumbledore's caution about getting lost in the wishing well.

Very, very well put. I got a question for you now from Brandon. Brandon, here you go. No idea what he's going to say. What if there was something you could add to your water to make you perform better, have more energy and protect your cells from damage? Hydrogen is the smallest molecule in the universe and the only one that can get deep inside your cells, mitochondria and even your DNA. It fuels energy production, crushes oxidative stress and supports sharper brain function. Hydrogen's a gas so you can't take it as a pill. So you either have to breathe it in or infuse it into your water. But your tap, bottled or filtered water doesn't have it. That's why I use the Echo Flask. Echo Flask is a hydrogen generator that uses advanced electrolysis and a proprietary proton exchange membrane to infuse your water with pure hydrogen. No chemicals, no ph change, just therapeutic science backed hydrogen. I've noticed more, more energy, faster recovery, less inflammation and mental clarity that lasts all day. Go to ecowater.com dave and use code DAVE.10 for 10% off your Echo Flask. You'll feel the difference in days. Brandon, here you go. No idea what he's going to say. Yeah, well, first off, very interesting. I have your book in my cart. I'm going to order it. I like your work. I had a question about. In regard to implementing the information in your books and what you've been saying, how do you think or do you not think at all in regard to those sort of circumcision, like, ritual practices that different cultures have had. Like, do you think it. It's important at all, or it impacts things negatively or positively? I have my own thoughts, but I kind of want to know what you think about it in regard to if it could tamper with implementation of these things. So.

Meaning just whether or not you're circumcised.

Yeah. Like the act of it itself, if it could be an impediment in regard to employing your methods, employing the things that you've been talking about or what you think about in general, too, I guess, would be nice.

I mean, short answer is I. I don't know. I mean, I think it's fair to say that both the human. In fact, Wilder Penfield was one of the founders of neuroscience. He created that famous homunculus, which is this really weird little dude, but it's big lips, big hands, big feet, and. And I think actually undersized junk. But fundamentally, it was supposed to represent how many neurons are in different parts in our body. Right. So how much of our brain is wired up to different bits and pieces. And a female clitoris has 8,000 nerve endings. Male. The glands of a male penis has 7,000. So it's overwhelmingly the most concentrated place. Of course, we want to put our most electric bits together. And any efforts in childhood or puberty or anything else that surgically alter that are both going to have an impact of some kind and may also have some impact of trauma, depending on how lovingly it's held or how consciously it's processed. Beyond that, I don't know. And my sense is, regardless of where anybody is, personally, I'm sure your body is beautiful and perfect and functional exactly as it is. And we're all making the most of what we have.

Brandon, hopefully that was helpful. When you get into really historical stuff. I have no idea if this is going to mix in the final edits. This way. Being in the live audience is fun. If you look way back, like into the Egyptian stuff, Cult of Mithras. That came after that, because I never talk about the soul on the air because most people don't know about it.

Let's do Mithras.

Well, there's also. There were temples where you'd go where there were sacred prostitutes and you'd go to a temple full of women specifically to have sex, to go meet God. This is one of the different. There are many different types of temples to different gods. But, yeah, they've been doing that for a Very long time. And they've taken it out of polite society. But it seems like that's one of the ways that they were getting in touch with this, going back thousands of years ago. And you get into the Mithra stuff and what do you know about Mithras? I'm guessing you've probably looked into it quite a bit, given where your book ended up.

Yeah, I mean, just. Just overwhelming overlaps with the Nazarene. Right. I mean, solar cults, sacrificial gods, all of those things. I think even to the point of his birth, being in a manger and being attended by wise men who gave him gifts, you know, around December 25th. Right?

Yeah, it was pret much. Well, let's just say that Christianity pretty much knocked off mythos, as far as we can tell. If, if you guys don't believe me, M I T H R S, just Google it. It's overwhelmingly obvious. But it went away, like all, all religions do eventually, unless they become systematized.

Yeah. Brandon Goldstar, for the most tangential question I think I've ever received on a podcast. But I'm gold star.

All right. I just, I look at where ritual comes from and some of what I do and all that, and you've gone way deeper on that than I have. But you, you look at how we create cults, which is part of the book, and this is mostly for the upgrade collective listeners. We didn't get into that just because of time, but you talk about crazy cult building and things like that, so when you read the book, you'll figure that out too. And you can tell when people are trying to draw you into culture. I'll also tell you guys that I am not using any of those techniques with you. So who's our out community? Like, who are the people we're against? There aren't any. Right. Except for maybe vegans, just because they deserve it. I'm kidding. We're not even against those guys. We're actually going to help them. That's what's different. Because when you have a movement in a community, you don't have to have an enemy. But that's one of the things that bad cults will do. So you'll learn about this in the book and it's pretty cool stuff. So just kudos and thanks for writing a good one.

Yeah, my pleasure. And I'm super glad to get to kick it around with you because you know where all the Easter eggs connect.

At least I hope I do. And if there's someone I don't know Maybe you know, and you'll tell me. I do have one more thing, if you have time for it. You said that there were some things you wanted to ask me about.

Yeah.

Do you. Do you know what those were? I'm happy to. To go another 10, 15 minutes. I don't know how many people in the collective can hang out, but you guys can. Can go on that. Let's. Let's chat. Maybe we'll.

Oh, absolutely, dude. Because you buried the lead last time, which was we. We got into delta wave activity. You talked about 40 years of Zen, and then you said, no, we don't necessarily just teach that to anybody. So that is such a fun neck of the woods. So what is your understanding of delta wave activity? Whatever your experience has been both within your own work, but then also the backstory to MK Ultra and all the other places it bubbled up and. Talk to me, so I'd love to just hear your side of that.

So when we talk about brain states, it's really easy to simplify. Kind of like you say protein, right? Well, what kind of protein was it? Spider venom. That might do something a little bit different than some other kind of protein. So when you talk about delta waves, which of them are we talking about? Right? And when you get into the very, very, very ones, like one wave every 10 seconds, there's a bunch of foundational, fundamental work to be done there around slow cortical potential, which is technically delta, or you call it very, very, very slow delta. And we actually do some of that training at 40 years of Zen, which can probably permanently, at least for long periods of time, increase the voltage in your brain. Like your cortical potential goes up, which is really cool. That's part of the performance enhancement stage of 40 Years of Zen. And then when you look at delta, you look at where in the brain it's occurring. And not just hemispherical, but specific small areas in the brain using like a 24 channel system. And then you can also train it at certain frequencies that I'm not going to disclose here because frankly, they're dangerous, but they're. They're frequencies that give you probably way more, way more abilities than you should have. And the people I know who've done that kind of training, not including me, pretty much go in one of two directions. They're either like walking enlightened angel people, or they're Darth Vader's. And I've. I know one person who is probably already a sociopath who did it and is now absolutely definitely a Sociopath, like, man, it's that, you know, it'll make you more of what you are. That old. That old book that you might have seen, it was ever so much more. So spray. You ever see that book?

No, it's a.

It's a. It's a young kid's book about a traveling salesman who has this can of ever so much more. So spray and you spray it on anything and it makes it more of what it is. So you spray it on a hinge and either it becomes noisier or the door closes more quickly, depending on how you look at it. Right.

Okay. So, dude, so a. I mean, yes, I completely agree. Like, any of these experiences that offer that true kind of white light reset, if they don't crack you open with tears of gratitude and an expanded hub, you know, you're pretty much a sociopath. And so it's either like Bodhisattva or Sith Lord. Seem like the only forks in the road as you take it down to this level. And the techniques for brainwashing are indistinguishable from the techniques for alchemy. Right.

That's the problem here. Even some of the drugs, I'm not sure. So much ketamine, but LSD and mushrooms, all. They make you more suggestible. So who are you doing it with? That might matter greatly. Just saying.

No, no.

A little concerned about people who rely on those.

What skill sets were you. So keep the frequency specifics under wraps. But what were the skill sets? Because obviously in the MK Ultra era, they were talking about telekinesis, psy capacities, a bunch of different things. And that was always in the men who stare at goats bucket.

All of the yogic cities S I D H I s live down in that region in association with other branches, waves at higher frequencies. So it's about knowing the combinations. Right. And just. I've committed. I'm not training people on the low stuff because of that. But I can tell you, when I wire up someone who comes in and says, my life is like this, like, yep, that person has high delta in those ranges. And magically they do. I don't know why, but things just always work out for me. And they pull up on their private jet and you're like, and your parents didn't buy that for you? Oh, no, no. Those kind of people.

Yes. Yeah. I just went surfing at Kelly's latest surf ranch with one of those guys just forever bumbling through his life in the groove.

Yeah. And everything just lines up everywhere they go. There are people like that, and there are techniques to learn that.

Okay, so now let's get beyond the sort of reductionist, materialist description of we're just slinging delta wave frequencies in the conversation. Why? What is your working model as to what you think is happening in those states? Where are they accessing or what capacities are they bringing online or where are they smuggling in the juju from?

Hmm, I don't know that I know where. What I do know is that a lot of the brainwaves we have are riding on other brainwaves and there's, there's interactions, like field level interactions that we don't quite understand yet. So I would say that's, that's dealing into the realm of why is it there? I don't know. But just like you look at something like gamma, gamma isn't actually a brain frequency. This is a very fast frequency. It rides on lower frequencies. So you have to have a lower frequency and then it vibrates a little bit, right? And it's probably fractal and there's octaves of all these things going on. And, and I don't know that we have enough machine learning capacity to figure all that out, but people are working on it really quickly, like Brian, who you talked about from Kernel. And we may discover some really scary stuff when we do enough machine learning on brainwaves. And I'm actually concerned about that because, well, there's some stuff in there that normally takes a lifetime to tap into. And I don't know what I would do if I had a wizard's powers when I was 16 years old, but it probably wouldn't have been very nice. So there's that with great power comes great responsibility. And those are the brainwave states where there's great power. They're also the ones that are foundational in driving most of your body rhythms. So you trash someone's delta. It could really be disruptive and ungrounding and break a lot of stuff. So what you end up doing, you end up doing, if you're doing it right, is you kind of start at the top and you're like, oh, let's work on organizing and suppressing your beta, right? And putting it in the right places in your brain. Like, let's get you through the alpha, let's get rid of your traumas and you get someone who's actually not responding traumatically to the world, they'll naturally start organizing their delta. And when it's organizing, you look at area under the curve in the brain. It's about efficiency, right? It's not about power necessarily. So if you can more efficiently use things. What I'll usually see when someone has a big breakthrough at 40 years of Zen is the area underneath their delta drops dramatically. Because all the power the brain was kind of throwing into just floating around in delta, it's like, screw that noise. And it puts it into some other frequency range. You see these huge shifts. Delta usually drops, but when it drops, it changes its nature, it changes where it is. And that's when people usually have a profound spiritual transcendent experience. And something like 80, 90%, I forget the exact number from our surveys of people who are doing this cognitive enhancing neurofeedback. They're experiencing transcendent experiences during the process, usually at a moment of really heavy forgiveness and trauma release. Which is remarkable because how could trauma release be performance enhancing? Because you stop wasting energy on the trauma. Right. But will your delta go up? Maybe, maybe not. Will it go down? Maybe, maybe not. Will it change its nature and become more orderly? It probably will if you're doing it right. And the more orderly it is, it appears the more of those, those powers you mentioned, the yogic cities, the more of those come online.

So it's. Yeah, I mean, and that sort of leads us. And once we get comfortable enough that we have protocols that deliver, deliver some, you know, a subject and reliably into interesting places, then we can start, you know, we're no longer fixating on the protocols. We're like, okay, now let's start mapping and hypothesizing about the interesting places. And so whether it's Henri Bergson and, you know, and Aldous Huxley's reducing valve of consciousness and you're expanding more or even David Eagleman recently has talked about that dualist model of mind, which is not just that everything is synapses and neurons and complexity arising from our wetware, but. But maybe we're a receiver of some form to some non local information layer. And that puts you into Wheeler's physics. It's from bits information theory of the universe.

There totally is a non local information layer. And I'm just going to have to say it out there. It's been written about in all these. Every old tradition has it. Shamans go to the underworld and there's places you go there. There's the book of Knowledge in the Bible and probably more people who do asterisks have called the Akashic records. Those are a real place where human knowledge sits. And you can go there. And there are people who are very good at going There very quickly. I have friends who can go there in under 10 seconds and get knowledge that they didn't have. And I was a little skeptical of this. And years ago in some of the preparatory work for opening 40 years as in. And I met a woman who did that kind of stuff and I was a little skeptical and I said, what do you do for work? And she said, I work for Hewlett Packard's advanced R and D division. And I said, I know a lot about that kind of stuff. So what kind of scientist are you? And she goes, I'm not a scientist, I'm a psychic. What do you mean you work for their advanced R and D? And she said when they get stuck on a problem of advanced physics like how to move a single atom, they call me and I ask the Akashic records and I tell them the answer.

That's outstanding. That's like psychic.

She wasn't lying. Yeah, she was absolutely telling the truth. Because I watched her do it with, with me. I'm like, holy crap, this woman's speaking a different language. This is so cool. Can most people do that?

Maybe.

I don't really know, but we specialize in my work. The fourth F word around friend is really important. So it's okay if you don't see angels and talk to the Akashic records and hack your delta waves until you levitate. It doesn't freaking matter. Like do what you're here to do. And whatever you need to do comes online if you're doing the right work. And so yeah, I absolutely know that. And I have learned how to go there. It's not easy for me. It takes, I have to wire my brain up. But I'll tell you the outline for my very first book. Gee, I snapped right out of that specific brain state that puts you in the Akashic records. Wrote the entire outline for the, the book within 10 minutes after coming out of two hours of the 40 years of Zen training. So yeah, it's all in there.

Yeah, it's all in the pudding. In fact. Do you know Bruce Damer, the NASA researcher? He's, he's a, he's, he's a burner. He's, he lives down in Santa Cruz. He's, he was good buddies with Leary and McKenna, holds their libraries as well as a bunch of early Silicon Valley computer tech. But he was describing to me he's actually recently invented and I think was, it was published in Scientific American and a bunch of peer reviewed journals. A New theory of the Origins of Life. And it was fundamentally not that it was like thermal vents in the bottom of the ocean, but it was hot springs. And it was this constant up and down of like, you know, rising and sinking tides, of like heat proximity, space mutation. Heat proximity, space mutation. And it's been proven out and is now kind of completely revamping the whole, you know, paleobiology of origins of life on Earth that came to him in a high end state and he was basically shown the nature of reality and it was like this interactive experience with Socratic questions. So he got this full gestalt hit, comes back, speaks to his research partner and he's like hell, this seems like a ridiculous hypothesis. How will we ever find out? And then six months later an Australian team reaches out on professional bulletproof boards, like we've just discovered proof and evidence of the very thing that you just put out a bulletin on and said you were looking for. And then they looped back around, went to Australia and now they have, you know, conclusive evidence of the very thing that he, he apprehended in the, you know, quote unquote Akashic field. And you're like, that deserves further, further inquiry.

I think you know, the same thing, you know, Steve Jobs doing acid, Larry and Sergey doing acid. The found the founding of or the discovery of DNA. These are all altered states things and that people who are envisioning the future and doing what the aboriginals call dreaming the future, they're actually doing that. And you can tap into it in certain altered states, sometimes with drugs and medicine, sometimes with drumming, sometimes with breathing, probably with all the stuff we just talked about, certainly with, with certain precise states in the brain. Yep, it's doable and it's maybe not something everyone's ever going to do and maybe something everyone shouldn't always do. But the fact that it's possible deserves scientific inquiry free of shame and judgment, like it's mostly had for the last.

50 or 60 years. Yeah, well, I think that would be the next Copernican revolution, right? Is that, is that we realize we're not just our meat suits and our egoic identities and that we're forever, potentially. You know, this is all hypothetical, but you know, if we could come up with a functioning and interactive model that people could effectively upload as new software, that that would be comparable to hominins discovering language. You know, because before we had language we were still monkeys. We still had to get glucose to the brain, we still had to void sharp fangs and big drops. So our meat suits were unchanged. But then we discovered linguistics. And we had abstraction and time sense and awe and philosophy and technology and science, and all the things were built on linguistics. And then what would happen if we then uploaded whatever you want to call it, informatics, like, you know, like, how do we actually plug into the new sphere intentionally? And how do we harvest the information we gain from there? Not just the occasional genius who stumbled their way in or hacked their way in, but all of us, everywhere. What would that look like?

Probably something better than we have now. But then again, that's a low bar, right?

Well, I mean, the Kardashians is cancelled, right? So we've got to come up with something better.

All right. Maybe it'll be Fear Factor too. Can't wait. All right, thanks, Jamie. Thank you, Upgrade Collective, for being in this audience for a relatively long, but hopefully, hopefully engaging and fun edition of Bulletproof Radio. I'll see you all on one. Coming up here. Jamie will probably cut this into a couple pieces, too. You'll just be monopolizing the show for a while.

Look what you did, dude. I'm so glad we got that last lap in. That was. That was awesome.

That was fun.

Yeah.

All right. Thanks, Joanne. Thanks, Jim. Thanks, everybody.

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