Top 5 Dopamine Boosting Biohacks for Superhuman Energy : 1310

If I want to be good at public speaking and I want more confidence, it's very important to have high levels of dopamine because that's the confidence. Lucas Auan is Australia's best known biohacker and men's health expert. Breaking down cutting edge science into real world tools for energy focus and hormonal dominance. He's not just leading the game, he's changing it.

What is the single most powerful non psychedelic compound that you've used to hack your dopamine system?

It's a medication that they use in Russia to treat neurasthenia, which is just mental weakness, you know, not having good adaptability. When I tried that, it literally blew me away. My energy was hyper elevated and just was in an incredible mood and very, very confident.

Is this legal worldwide? You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. Lucas, one of the reasons I want to have you on the show is aside from being Australia's top biohacker, you are willing to say things that are maybe a little politically incorrect in the world of biohacking, as am I right? It's like what works is what works. It doesn't matter if it's cool or not. So I appreciate that about you and so I want to be able to go deep on some biohacking topics and just compare notes.

What do you think? Yeah, man, that's definitely right up my alley. I've always been really passionate about exploring, you know, novel compounds, just digging deep into the science and, and seeing the practical applications for different substances. Peptides, nootropics. I mean, I've, I've been obsessed with supplements for many, many years, like yourself.

So if you and Andrew Huberman were arm wrestling, who would win?

Oh, geez, that's a, that's a tough one. Andrew. Definitely. He'd roast me there. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. Okay, what if it was just like a mental match? Who would win?

Um, yeah, definitely. He's, he's, he's, his breadth of knowledge is, is far superior.

I, I'm just messing with you on him. Like no matter how you enter that, you're, you're screwed. So. Yeah, just kidding. And you've, you've both been on the show. It's all, it's all good. What is the single most powerful non psychedelic compound that you've used to hack your dopamine system?

Yeah. So when most people think of dopamine, they think of the amino acids, the precursors, l, tyrosine, phenylalanine, and, and they use them as substrates Right. Like they're just basically building blocks. But what I, when I was really obsessed with this topic, I wanted to understand what was the rate limiting enzymes in the brain that actually govern how much dopamine the brain actually synthesizes from these precursors like tyrosine and phenylalanine. And then I quickly realized that it was all coming down to like this one key enzyme, which is the tyrosine hydroxylase enzyme. And I was like, okay, how do I increase the genetic expression of this enzyme in my brain so that every time I consume protein I'm actually ramping up the synthesis of dopamine? And so I was researching what can we do to upregulate that. Cordyceps did it, but not very strongly. Forskolin, another nootropic, didn't really do it to a great, great extent. The one that really stood out to me was Bromantane, which also goes as under the name as Lodastin. And when I tried that, Dave, like it literally blew me away. First of all, I think I actually funnily enough entered into a state of like mild hypomania because I was like, wow. Yeah, I was actually like sleeping like five to six hours per night and my energy was hyper elevated in my mood. I just was in a incredible mood and very, very confident and positive. I am at baseline, but this was just amplified to another level. And, and then I was digging deep into the research behind Bromantane and if you look up how they prescribed it in Russia, it's a medication that they use in Russia to treat neurasthenia, which is just mental weakness, you know, not having good adaptability. It's basically considered a synthetic adaptogen. And you know, I only use like 10 milligrams, which is like a baby dosage to begin with. But I actually realized like looking back and understanding what happens in the brain when you actually micro dose amp stimulants and amphetamines, there's some crazy, crazy research where it actually massively upregulates dopamine production. It causes dopamine super sensitivity in the long run, which was, yeah, Bromantin was like a really powerful drug for me.

So Brumantine is, it's definitely working on the dopamine receptors and it has a cousin that works really, really well on your refractory period as well. Right?

Yeah, that's the adamantane or amantadine. Yeah. Which is also really powerful.

Adamantane. It is one of them that works very, very well. And strangely it's related to An Alzheimer's drug that's an interesting nootropic, which is memantine. So there's all these, like, cool little pharmaceutical drugs like that that we don't necessarily talk about that often. So you felt more from Bramontane than you did from Modafinil, which is also kind of helping on the dopamine system.

Modafinil, for me, yeah, like, modafinil is definitely dopaminergic, but I found it was like, so pronounced in terms of the wakefulness component. So, like, that, like, fatigue feeling just never really set in with Modafinil. So it just completely blunted the. The adenosines, like, sleepiness feeling. Whereas Bromantane. I felt like it was actually changing my behaviors in a way that made me, like, much more goal oriented, much more, like, confident, a bit more swagger, a bit more just like, if we had to do, like a social hierarchy contest, I think. I think those that have really, really high dopamine, they. They tend to back themselves. They're like, really. They feel like they can outperform anyone else. That was a sort of effect that I got from Bromantan, and that was. It literally set in after like two to three days. So it was really, really powerful in that regard.

It's interesting. I. I haven't used it in a long time. Russians make all the cool biohacking stuff, like the weird drugs. You haven't thought of the bioregulator peptides, which I know that you're into as well. It's interesting. I. I'm. I'm gonna have to experiment more because you said it. It took about three days to get the experience or.

Yeah, if you look at the half life. If you look at the half life of Bromantane, it's actually like 11. It's like 11, 11 to 12 hours in men. And funnily enough, it has a different half life in women, which I've never seen a drug. It's not often that you see a drug have such a differing effect in terms of half life in men and women, but if you combine it with, like, the precursors, which I know you've spoken about many times, tyrosine or phenylalanine and then the B vitamins, it really is just amplification of the dopamine axis.

All right, so this is a pretty cool. And we just got really nerdy on. In our first question on the podcast. And the reason that we'd want to increase dopamine in the brain is, Is. Well, because dopamine Motivates you to do things that matter. So it's like a motivation hormone. But doing it in different parts of the brain is also important. If you upregulate dopamine in your limbic system, what's going to happen?

Yeah, so the limbic system that's obviously regulating our emotional responses to things. And so if we're upregulating the production in that area, that could obviously impact our behaviors in other ways. Maybe exacerbate more of like a fear. A fear based response. Yeah, exactly. Exactly Right.

But the drug that you're bringing to our attention here, Brontane, it actually raises dopamine in the prefrontal cortex, but not in the limbic system, which is really, really unusual. I hadn't known that until we started talking about that. I was like, all right, I gotta look at my notes on this. So is this legal worldwide? Where does it come from? Where do we get it?

Well, I've actually, I use the second largest manufacturer of Nootropics Science Bio. You may have come across that company. Oh, yeah, yeah. I like to get it from them. They're really high quality and they're all third party tested. I don't really trust the bromantane from any other. Like any encapsulated bromantane, I just don't trust personally just because there's. I've tried them and they just don't have that effect.

Interesting. So I'm just looking it up. How expensive is this stuff? Not terribly. In fact, I think I have some from this vendor in my, like, big bag of stuff. It's 70 bucks. It's. It's not bad at all. Okay, so what are the bad things that could happen if a listener says, all right, I'm going to see if I can increase my genetic expression of dopamine and take over the world?

Oh, geez. Well, I'd say with dopamine you have to be careful that it's not over converting into norepinephrine or noradrenaline because the excess production of, you know, norepinephrine can lead to a bit more anxiety, restlessness, a bit more irritability. Personally, I don't really find that because I'm always taking things that boost gabber at the same time. So I'm loading up on heaps of taurine, you know, lots of magnesium, lots of things that act as like the inhibitory neurotransmitter. So I feel like the state of complete, total social dominance and productivity is high. Dopamine high, Gaba Moderately high acetylcholine, very low as very low serotonin. And that state for me creates this like, I want to just get things done. I want to build an empire. Basically.

I, I love it. Word of caution for our listeners. If something is good, it doesn't always mean that more is better. And you might want to get some adult supervision, as in a friend or partner who's going to tell you if you're acting a little bit wacky. Because if you really crank up dopamine too much, it reduces inhibitory control. That's sex addictions, stimulant abuse. You can reach like bipolar, like states of mania with racing thoughts. You're overconfident. And strangely, it can make it worse if you have adhd, especially when there's just too much noise in a chaotic environment. So tread cautiously when enhancing dopamine this dramatically. But we all need to know about the tools and this is a, a really under respected tool. So thank you, Lucas, for pointing that out. I, I really like this.

Yeah, no, it's definitely an interesting compound.

Do you think you can rewire someone's brain for masculinity? And what would it look like if you could?

Yeah, so when it comes to masculinity, I think there's a particular hormone that a lot of guys are confused about, and that is dht. Now, a lot of guys are under the assumption that DHT is something that we need to block. You know, we need to inhibit the production of DHT. We need to block the 5 alpha reductase enzyme. But we've seen in thousands of case studies and, and even on, you know, medical journals the ramifications, the implications of actually blocking 5 alpha reductase in men can lead to anxiety, low mood, it can lead to sexual dysfunction. So I've always been under the premise that most guys are already struggling with testosterone, right? Like we're in a testosterone epidemic. It's declining, it's not getting any better. So therefore, why would we want to then go ahead and block the hormone that testosterone gets converted into, which is DHT, which is three to 10 times more potent than testosterone itself.

We'd want to block it because we care about our hair. I mean, there's two reasons a guy's blocked dht, right? One is you want to lose your hair. And the other one is because of prostate enlargement. Right. So, so the, the thing a lot of guys do, and I've gone through phases, this is before I really understood what was going with my health. This is, you know, 15 years ago, where I would have to take salt palmetto. Right. I'd have to pee a lot. Right. Cause I had swelling in my prostate. Because probably oxalate was the most likely thing that was causing that. But it hasn't been an issue. But if you keep taking saw palmetto, it can drop your sex drive because it's dropping dht. And the idea is that your body makes testosterone and if it doesn't get sucked up by S, H, B, G, then what's left, some of it is active as it is, and some of it converts to estrogen, which you don't want, although you need some estrogen, not too much. And then some of it converts to dht. And if you get too much, it might be why you lost your hair, but it's probably your mitochondria anyway, not your dht. But if you don't have dht, you're saying less libido, less masculine traits.

Exactly. I've seen a number of guys who obviously taken finasteride or saw palmetto in high doses. You know, reishi mushroom is another one. At high doses can be problematic for, for some guys if they have low baseline DHT in the first place. So if they're, if they're already moderately low or just average for DHT and then they suppress it even further or. Well, if you're suppressing the 5 alpha reductase pathway, then testosterone is going to go down the estrogen pathway. So you're going to be hyperaccumulating more estradiol, which is. It's not a bad thing. But some guys that. That ratio really impacts them.

I did not know about reishi mushrooms having that side effect. They're generally good for the immune system, but I don't take that. I don't take them every day by a long shot. Okay, so you'd raise dht. I think you'd also want to raise dopamine in those same men. Right? Yeah.

So the other, the other compound that I'm. Well, it's not necessarily a compound. It's actually a herbal extract that I'm a huge fan of. It's actually one of Brazil's most famous aphrodisiacs. And this one's called Catwaba. Are you familiar with Catwaba?

Absolutely.

Yeah. So to Catawba was actually the. Is the very first product that I decided to release and we've trademarked the name Catwa Pure. We spent like over a year trying to find high quality catawaba extract. And I played around with this five or six Years ago because some of the research early on was suggesting that the catwabenes, which are the alkaloids found within catwaba, actually possess mild dopamine reuptake inhibitory effects. So you look online, if you go on all these like, crazy like shaman websites and shaman forums, you'll see that most guys are using catuaba as like a happy tea, as an aphrodisiac tonic. What was your experience like with Cat.

Va, I take it with rhodiola and tyrosine and others, I like to manage my dopamine systems as well. I think a lot of advanced biohackers are like, life is better when dopamine works. It was a subtle effect on top of the stack that I do, but I have a pretty comprehensive, pretty copy of stack you could say. Do you know about cabergoline?

Yeah, yeah, yep. The D2 Agonist.

Yeah. So that has an effect on dopamine as well. But I don't take that every day. That's like a micro dose every three days. And for guys listening, yeah, we're getting super nerdy here. Cabergoline suppresses prolactin. And if you heard me talk about frequency of male ejaculation and what it does to motivation, it drops testosterone and therefore dht. And it also raises prolactin, which makes you tired. So this is a pharmaceutical you can use that stops prolactin from falling. And It's a dopamine D2 agonist. So it increases libido. And the reason you want to have high libido is that that same stuff that gives you libido, it's called QI or life force energy, depending on your practice, is basically desire to do stuff. It's not about bedroom activity as it is about, like, I'm going to go change the world activity.

I'm really glad you mentioned that, Dave. I've heard you talk about that before. I really do believe that that pathway, that access is literally the same. Access for like. Yeah, like you said, life force beyond just bedroom performance. Like, if a guy's libido is good, generally speaking, that it can translate to, you know, life, motivation, achieving goals, getting after things. And also it helps with that. Like if. If a guy has anhedonia, which is a blunted pleasure response, I think that that can also. That ties in very closely with that libido motivation axis as well.

So you're a huge fan of Ashwagandha, right?

Yeah. So many people, if anyone's listening to this podcast and they haven't heard me talk about the dangers of Ashwagandha. This would be like podcast number 50 where I've mentioned it. So you've obviously heard about it, Dave.

I mean, I've been talking about it as well. Yeah, that stuff. Occasional use for sleep. Yes. Daily use. Like, if you want to not care about anything. It's a great one for you.

Yeah, yeah. The. The anhedonia response, like, basically, we'll just sum it up to the audience. A long story short is that we believe that Ashwagandha desensitizes a particular serotonin receptor that sort of gatekeeps how much serotonin your brain manufactures or produces, which is the 5ht1a receptor. And if you look. If you actually look really, really far back into some of the animal studies, you'll actually see that there's a rat study that shows that Ashwagandha can actually cause a brain change in a similar way to what SSRIs can, can do. And if anyone's ever used SSRIs, they'll know that most of them can make people feel numb, emotionally, you know, blunted, and their pleasure response is basically gone. So, yeah, it's a powerful anti stress herb, but again, there's so many other great anti stress compounds to be used in replacement of Ashwagandha without the side effects.

They just made it illegal. Was it in Denmark or Finland or something because of that?

Yeah, that. That was also due to the potential liver toxicity as well component. And, and. But I think, like, let's say we wanted to suppress cortisol. I mean, there's so many incredible ways to do so. Like, how many different.

Trivial.

Yeah, I know.

Yeah. Like, just take a bunch of theanine to suppress cortisol and honestly, suppressing cortisol is kind of dumb. Right?

I agree.

So can we talk about that? You want to. This is a very counterintuitive point, but.

I think you, you and I might have same wavelength. Same wavelength. Yeah. I think the suppression of cortisol is a problem if we're doing it all the time, because cortisol actually gives us a similar effect to what dopamine does. It actually gets, you know, like, it actually helps us get things done. And that's probably why a lot of people like coffee.

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I mean, not really for me. Nah, nah. Coffee's very mild in that regard.

And you want in the morning you have a dopamine increase, which sunlight helps a lot with that. So they're just waking up and you must have a cortisol response and an adrenal response before you get out of bed. And this is by design so you have enough blood pressure when you stand up, otherwise you pass out and then something eats you. So it's a survival thing. So morning cortisol increase is beneficial for Your immune function for your cognitive function, for getting up and caring about your life. So that's when you'd want to have coffee. And a cortisol rise then sets your circadian rhythm. Right. So you don't want to suppress that, but if it's elevated when it's time for bed, you might want to. And then you could use Astrodon if it's occasional, but if it's regular, then you can still set the cycle. But you don't want to use that same stuff. You want to pick something else. And like I mentioned, theanine. What other thing did you use in the evening to lower cortisol?

Oh, you've got so many great compounds. I mean, you've got glycine, three to five grams. You've got taurine, three, three to six grams. You've got a one that I've used sort sparingly, which is really, really powerful is micro dosing cyproheptadine, also known as periactin. It's a really powerful antihistamine. It's not natural, like it's a. It's a pharmaceutical drug, but it's at 1 milligram, which is a quarter of the tablet. Cyproheptadine can really powerfully lower, like not just cortisol, but also adrenaline and, and all the other fight or flight sort of related neurotransmitters. So that's one that I. I've used.

Yeah, that's an interesting thing. I have not played with that drug. I don't know if you can get it in the us it's called the cyproheptadine and a lot of people have had Benadryl. Right. Really, really common thing. It knocks you on your butt. And this is also an antihistamine, kind of like Benadryl. Benadryl is an H1 blocker. This is an H1 blocker. Problem with Benadryl is we've now proven that people who use Benadryl a lot, especially for sleep over time, are much more likely to get cognitive dementia as they age. It's not good for you. But I don't know if the same is true for this one. Do you.

A lot of the, like, the dirty effects of Benadryl do sort of cross over a little bit with cyproheptadine. Although if we're using 1 milligram as like a Sunday reset, what which is. It's a protocol that I've implemented for many, many years is like, on Sunday night, I need a super sleep. And a super sleep for me is just Like a boosted sleep. You've probably got delta sleep inducing peptide for that. You've probably played around with some other things. But yeah, cipreptidin at 1 milligram. Yes, it's anticholinergic. So then therefore when I wake up the next day, I. Okay, no problem. Just take some alpha GPC and some eggs. Eat some eggs. So the anticholinergic effect is basically eradicated. And then the. Remember that actually cyproeptadine is, was, is one of the world's first ways to actually counteract serotonin syndrome. So it's actually first line treatment against serotonin syndrome. So ciproheptadine is a really powerful way to actually suppress serotonin.

Oh. So that might be really useful if you were dumb enough to use some magical blue compounds that we all like, methylene blue with psychedelics that can cause serotonin syndrome, which can be really deadly. So if, if you're out there, maybe at Burning man in another few weeks here, and you're doing methylene glue or an SSRI and you kick some mushrooms and your blood pressure and heart rate goes through the roof, you can literally blow a gasket. So this would be one of the ways, along with bentodiazepines, to protect yourself.

Yeah, exactly. And, and the serotonin syndrome, I've actually had a few friends that have accidentally induced that and you're probably the same as well. And it's, it is actually a really serious issue. It can happen with 5 HTP as well. Tryptophan, not so much. But yeah, people need to be really careful with, with serotonin syndrome. Like you said at the start, too much of anything is, is not good.

And if you don't have the right medications, you literally, if your blood pressure and your heart rate's 180, blood pressure is going up, you've done psychedelics and some kind of serotonin thing. You go to the hospital and like give me IV benzodiazepines. Now I have serotonin syndrome. They'll know what to do. And if you're at a festival or something, they're very familiar with this because it's one of the risks of that kind of stuff. But there's another compound sort of related that might be useful for your super sleep deck and you might already use it. But let's talk about it because we're like going deep on cutting edge stuff. Have you played around with amanita strains of muffins?

That, that's one that's on my to do list. My. My massive to do list. It's a. Is a musk. Muskimol is the active constituent in amanita. Yes. Yeah. Where, where, where should I get it from? I don't know. I've never actually tried it.

You can buy extracts online. I'm not sure if the company that sells it would want me to, to share it. It's a company that has methylene blue and makes a really cool nasal spray with some nicotine stuff in it. So, you know, I'm talking about. But I'm not going to name them because of the Gaffia member. And this is actually not illegal. And so amanita are the famous red and white mushrooms. They are not psychedelic. Classically. I got interested because where I used to live on Vancouver island, the, the first nations people up there, indigenous people, they know how to deal with cold, dark, shitty winters, because that's how it is up there. So seasonal affective disorder is a thing and so is just blah, and so is cold. So they would take amanita and they would cook it down into like a, a gel, like a jelly, and they'd eat a tablespoon of that every day. And then they don't care about cold and they don't care about darkness, which is kind of a big deal. So I have like a 3x extract. You take a dropper full before bed and it works the muscarinic receptors, which is something that drug you talk about does. And you get really interesting dreams and just a different quality, but a good quality of sleep. So if you're trying to, like, figure out, okay, I want to increase, we'll say, masculinity, like I talked about before. So you're going to take your testosterone, you're going to take the other substance that you fight, and you're going to improve the quality of your sleep, quality of your dopamine. And so this might be a tool you put in there. Men and women can both use amanita. Of course.

I know there's a. There's another herb that's really famous. It's really renowned for increasing flying dreams. Have you heard of that?

Is this African dream root or something different?

That's. I know that one, but there's another one. I think it's asparagus root. It's. There's a particular type of asparagus that's known to create, like, flying dreams. I've never actually tried it, though.

That sounds kind of interesting. I, I'm up for that. And, you know, I, I imagine some people are going, what are these guys going on about? Well, what's happening here is the quality of. Your experience of reality is incredibly affected by your neurochemistry and your mitochondrial biology. And so, like, what are the obvious things? It's serotonin, it's dopamine, it's adrenaline, it's noradrenaline and their metabolites and their precursors. And if you get those right and you have enough electrical activity in your cells, because we took care of your mitochondria, your experience of sleep, your experience of wake, your experience of intimacy, they're completely like on a different planet, right?

Yeah. This is. This is a big reason why I'm a big advocate for an organic acid test. That's something that I recently did one. And my. I was actually really happy with where everything was at. Like, all of my neurotransmitters were exactly where I wanted them to be. And this is. This comes back to the principle of something that I've been trying to educate people about, which is cosmetic neurology, which is the ability to actually hack your neurotransmitters. I know you've spoken about that extensively, but it's like, hang on a second. If I want to be good at public speaking and I want more confidence, it's very important to have high levels of GABA and reduce glutamate. And it's also important to have high levels of dopamine because that's the confidence. So it's like, how do I actually manipulate my brain to actually create the state that is most likely to elicit the best possible outcome?

What would happen if you got to choose your state and you put yourself in the ideal state for the activity you were in. And it's really funny because let's say that you're about to go out on a hot date with someone new, okay? You're gonna brush your teeth, you're gonna hopefully shower. Unless you're a vegan, it doesn't matter then. Cause you're not gonna be able to get it up. But then there's all these things that. And if you're a woman, you're going through your hair and put on whatever the office is like. Like, we all know we prepare our state, right? And you're not gonna get shitty drunk ahead of time. And like, you're gonna do everything you can to make it. Like put on a good first impression. And if you're going to go to the gym, you take a pre workout. But if you're going to go on stage or you're going to focus on writing or creating nothing.

Right.

And shouldn't we apply the same standard to our morning or to whatever we're doing that matters? I believe that really deeply and it's changed my whole life. And I know you do too, because we've talked about stuff, which is something.

I really respect on the exact same wavelength. I foresee the body in the exact same way. It's like you have, like, toggles and you can either turn things up or turn things down. And you can program your body in a way that's best appropriate for a certain activity or task. Like, for example, you said on a first date, I actually formulated a protocol. Like, to impress on the first date. I just have to.

You're such a nerd, man. All right, tell me about.

Did it. Did. Well, actually, there was one time when I. I formulated a protocol and I was actually so witty and sarcastic to the point where she. She laughed so much that she spat her alcohol into the other. Into the other girl's glass. So I clearly think it was a. It was a good. A good stack for me because I was really, really disinhibited. For me, I personally find Dave, if I'm extremely disinhibited and I have this and I pull my guards down, shields off, like, that is the absolute best version of me that I want someone to see. Because when I'm inhibited, and I can be inhibited from taking things that boost glutamate, if I've had MSG, the following day, I'm terrible.

It ruins my brain and my day. MSG is absolutely neuroactive. Good. Yeah. So interesting. That makes it for worse of a date, in fact. Yeah. If I was to go on a date and you gave me msg, by the end of the day, I would just be like. Like literally my face falls down.

But then. But then that means that their experience of you was. You only get one shot. Your own. You only first impressions are made within zero point unless you.

You fix your refractory period in a circuit.

Yeah, well, you could. You can make up for it in that regard. I think the. The first impression idea is like, for me, there's certain herbs that can like, make me feel very disinhibited. The Catawba is one of them because it's like a outgoing. It's actually known as the tree of togetherness. In, in Brazil, they call it, like, interesting, the tree of togetherness. So for me, it actually had that effect.

What do you think is the most overhyped supplement stack in the biology world.

Right now, I, I would have to say number one, apple cider vinegar gummies. If you've seen those. Yeah, I had Glucose Goddess on and she was like, I tested them.

They're junk. Yeah.

And then there's. I mean, this is pretty controversial, but athletic greens.

Yeah, that's controversial.

I think just because the dosages, like the proprietary blends, people are confused whether or not it has.

All right, I, I didn't. I thought your opinion wasn't that controversial. I mean, they're, they spend a lot of money on advertising. But most of the, the top people I know are like, it's. It's a supplement. Like it. For the money. It's. It's a lot. But I don't like to, to pick on anyone unless it's like just a real obvious scam. And I don't think it's one of those. I just like, it's very expensive for what it is that way.

Well, well, because we're like extreme biohackers. We would rather formulate our own greens. Right. Like you. We. We diy. So like, for us, it's like we'll just do it ourselves and we'll just make. We'll do the chlorella spirulina and we'll. We'll leave out the ashwagandha and we'll just, we'll build it ourselves. But I mean, in terms of. Yes, overrated supplements at the moment, I mean, I think calcium. Calcium supplements are pretty overrated. Most people just need more vitamin K2 and vitamin D. Like you'd probably agree there, except for if it's calcium D glucarate. Calcium D glucarate is exceptional.

Yeah, I've, I've read about that, I think, in two of my books. Now. Although I will warn you, if you take too much calcium D glucarate, and guys, it. I have this section in. This is smarter, not harder. The book before, maybe most current one. I'm talking about these three special kinds of calcium. Calcium D glucarate is fantastic for getting rid of synthetic estrogens, xenoestrogens, but it also gets rid of your estrogen. So if you're a guy and you take a lot of it, you can have zero estrogen. You need some estrogen for libido and for cardiac cardiac protection. And if you're a woman, it's probably gonna be really helpful unless you're low on estrogen during sudden pro cycle, but it helps with microplastics. You probably should be taking calcium glucarate at least some of the time.

So.

But that's still. There's some text for that.

Yeah, I've also emphasized that as well. Guys that I've worked with, I put them on protocols and it's boosted their testosterone and that. But they don't want to use an aromatase inhibitor to lower estrogen. Well, then I always start with like calcium D glucarate, because I've seen it slash estradiol on blood tests. And if that doesn't work and that's not bringing it down enough, then I might consider doing a high dose zinc, because that obviously has aromatase inhibitory properties. And then there's some other sort of flavones that can grow as well.

This is a really good one for that. Yep. So all the guys in my family have mandarins. Universally, if I have my grandfather, we passed in 20 years ago, he, towards the end was like, you know what? These things hurt.

I can't.

Now I understand what happened.

He's like, I'm gonna get a bro.

And he actually, like, adds something that would hold his man boobs up. And I was really ashamed of mine when I was younger. And I understand now. I have genetics where my body consumes a lot of zinc, so I'm low on zinc, which would have been helpful. And I do aromatase quickly. So I figured out a while ago I've not had surgery to reduce those, and I don't have any mandus. Look at the COVID of of my latest book. I look like better than I've ever looked in life. I do calcium eglucarate. Not every day, but enough. And if I stop taking it for a long enough period of time and I have inflammation, I grow little nips. I'm like, oh, I should go back on calcium D glucarate or add a little bit of crisin. But if I take them all the time, libido goes down. So you can totally manage something that is a sign of excess estrogen. In my case, it was zinc plus calcium glucarate, like you're talking about, and occasionally a little bit of crisin. I don't think dim works E, I M, which is another thing that people try to eat.

I'm not a fan of dim as well. There's a saying, don't be a dimwit, because dim at high dosages can block the androgen receptor. So why would you want to take something that blocks the androgen receptor?

You kind of want your androgen receptors to work. So you can have testosterone. You take Testosterone?

No, I, I, I've, I'm hovering around 900 to 950 nanograms per deciliter. Total testosterone pretty much year round with my, my stack.

What's your free T look at?

It's hovering around 600 as well. So it's, it's pretty high.

Interesting. There's some other number at least. Maybe it's an American thing because, because there's, it's like 20 is the number that we're looking for. This is like a Ben Beekman number.

Oh, picograms per mil.

Yeah, that's gotta be what it is.

Yep. So, so total test. Yeah, my total test is like 29.

Oh, okay. I was say the 900 is not your total. Your total's 2900.

Oh, no, no, no. My total test is, is 900. 900 to 950.

Okay.

Nanograms per deciliter.

That's making some sense.

Okay, cool. If I was at two 900 GS, I would be a specimen. I'd be the whole.

Yeah, you'd be a specimen. And probably like, you know, looking at every doorknob like it was, I don't know, I don't think any one of us wanted to go on and go there. Got it. So. And your age was?

I'm 29. 29.

Okay, so you're still where you really should be making it. Around 35, it starts to go down. And it doesn't always, but you're doing fantastic. Like, if we were to draw a curve of 29 year olds on the planet, you're in the top 1% of successful testosterone producers. I would say.

Yeah, I would say, like, the reason why I was really obsessed with testosterone is because I saw the relationship between dopamine and testosterone. And when I went on the quest to, like, maximize dopamine, when I did blood tests, I was noticing that my testosterone kept creeping up as well. So I'm like, this is because it's suppressing prolactin and also because it's stimulating gnrh release as well.

There may be a another thing going on. And that's when you do stuff that matters in the world, your testosterone goes up. Like, look, I brought home carcass of animal to woman. Your testosterone goes up just by doing things that help your woman. We're wired that way. Mother Nature did that. So increasing dopamine may have direct effects. It may also just have like, I did it. And then the testosterone goes up. Like the, you know, the Victor Superman pose and all the other stuff. There's something to that. I don't know.

I think the, it's the accomplishment of effortful tasks releases testosterone. And it's like, because testosterone is the hormone that, like Huberman says, makes effort feel good. The like, if you are successful and you are doing something that achieves a goal that, that contributes to humanity, like in a meaningful or positive way. Yes. It makes sense for your testosterone to, to rise.

So we're talking about like supplements that are a scam. I have a controversial one. Collagen protein.

In terms of controversial, I made college.

Into a billion dollar business at bulletproof. Yeah, but there's a downside and the nuance always gets missed. So 15, 20 grams a day. This is good for you. I went on the doctor auto show talking about it. I remain a fan of collagen in general. Not endorsing any one brand that I used to work with or anything like that, but some people do this thing that biohackers always do some good, more better. So then they say, I'm gonna slam a hundred grams of collagen. It'll work. No Collagen above about 20 grams a day because of hydroxyproline converts into oxalate. It's not good for you. Wow. And oxalate is something I wrote about in the bulletproof diet, but it's, I think I under indexed somehow. Important. Important. It is direct in certain foods. So your body can remove 200 milligrams a day of this. But if you have toxic mold exposure or you eat anything that is considered a superfood, like almonds, raspberries, kale, of course, spinach, like all those things, then what you end up doing is you end up getting up to like a gram a day. And if you're taking a lot of excess collagen is not good for you. 20 grams a day is good, but no more. Because if you do that, you just add to the oxalate load. And when it comes to mitochondrial function, we have studies showing that microscopic razor sharp calcium crystals of calcium oxalate from your diet, they directly cut the mitochondrial membrane so you have less energy and they cause systemic calcification and inflammation. And one of the hallmarks of aging is cellular stiffening, which is caused by oxalates. I think you have oxalate poisoning from superfood zealotry. And like, I don't eat brown rice, I don't eat whole grains. If I'm going to eat some sort of white flour, only in Europe or Dubai, it's going to be white flour, not whole wheat. Because of oxalate. And changing that one thing has made a big difference. And I can feel a difference. If I do two scoops of collagen, it's stiffness in the morning. I do one scoop, it's just fine.

Why would the body convert hydroxyproline into oxalate? Like what is the evolutionary advantage of that? That's why I'm, that's what I'm thinking.

That is a really interesting question. I wonder if it's microbial. I don't think it is.

Like it doesn't make sense that why would the body have a pathway for that. It doesn't because hydroxyproline is good for cartilage and things like that. But why would the body do that? Is it because excess hydroxyproline?

Oh, it's because we need glyoxylate. It's a central metabolite for lots of amino acid processes thing. So we have to make it. And if you have extra, it goes to oxalate because that's the only way to get rid of it. So we prioritized acute survival over long term damage, which is what mother nature does in everything. That would make so much sense, wouldn't it?

How many people do you think, I mean, with the, with the oxalates. I know you've heard, I know you've spoken about it a lot and I've, I've liked all of your kale posts. Every single time you do it, I share it because I'm, I love those, I love it how you keep just bashing it into the vegans. But like how many people do you think are really suffering from oxalate issues and they're just not aware of them?

Wow, it is that big of a deal. And I did not, I did not know this when I wrote the Bulletproof Diet. And I keep referencing that because more than million people have read that book. And it's, it's changed a lot of the way that, that we talk about some more health things, including sicklebl ketosis in first chapter. I'm like, here's what to watch out for in plants, lectins. And Dr. Gundry's done a great job of talking even more about that. Look at histamine in food as something that matters and then look at mycotoxins and look at oxalates and look at omega 6 oils as these are, and they'll affect you differently. But since that time, Sally Fallon came out with a book that went really deep in science on the rate of oxalate excretion here's what's weird. We had abundant like thousands of papers on Oxalate before 1955. It was everywhere because we used it in bars to clean things. We use it in farming. You cure. You cure lambskins and leather with oxalate in old process. So you stick your hand in there and literally you would crystallize inside your body. It was pretty brutal. So we understood this and then it went away. And then we started eating all these weird fresh fruits that only. Or fresh vegetables that only came about because of refrigeration. Before that, you have to pickle it. And fermentation gets rid of a lot of oxalate. So our levels went up and up and up. But when you're young, you don't experience oxalate very much. And there's a reason for that. The reason is that when you're young, your tissues have not been saturated with these microscopic Gaussian crystals. So your ability to handle it is higher. Your kidneys work better. But oxalate, 70% of kidney stones are caused by oxalate, not by phosphate. So you just realize, oh, it's a thing that accumulates in the body over time. Slowly it's like, or I can eat a hemple of almonds. Doesn't cause any Trouble. But then 10 years later it does cause trouble because you kind of filled up. So it is reversible. And I know that I had way too much oxalate and I managed to reverse. It takes about 18 months, two years to get it out of your tissues. But when I do that, I had zero pain anywhere in my body. That used to just be chronic. It's also elevated in autism and adhd.

I wasn't aware of that statistic around was it. The body is capable of removing about 200 milligrams per day. And that's in a body that's. That's not compromised though, like in a normal.

Yeah, normal, healthy feeling rate of excretion. And we're talking one spinach kale almond milk smoothie as a gram. And there's a case report of a guy who died after 10 days of green smoothie cleanses of massive kidney failure. Like it's that big of a deal. And he probably had other issues, to be perfectly honest. But like, yikes. So a lot of people, they're waking up like, I have all these GI problems. I'm having problems with my, my poop. I'm having joint pain or having skin issues. I'm having crunchy stuff around my eyes. All the sympathetic depth it's directly correlated with oxalate. I've got it out of my body. I don't eat it. I have none of that.

Yeah, that's super. It makes sense why so many people respond so well to, like, the carnivore diet. Like, surely most of the benefit of the carnivore diet, Dan, is just the removal of oxalates.

I believe it's a major part of it, but it's. I can't say most because you're also removing about a hundred other plant toxins. So for some people, it's nightshades and oxalate. For some people it's primary oxalate. But if you go from high oxalate to zero oxalate, the body will start releasing, it starts to get worse. So people who go on carnivore and experience a really bad first week, that's probably also oxalate before it starts getting better. But it's, it's. You can use biohacking to make yourself better with that. And the answer there is lots of potassium citrate, tons of lemon juice. I did 2 ounces or more of lemon juice a day for two years and eventually you just get it out. But it takes a while. And man, I love not having anything hurt. The places where I've had three surgeries on my knee, I've had a joint rebuilt on my foot, zero pain at all. But if I go out there and I eat a big handful of walnuts, chocolate, raspberries, even sweet potatoes besides, been a fan of, they're very high. I don't eat that stuff. I am golden. And that's worth talking about, I think. And I, I feel like with the kind of biohacking that you do and that I do, there's probably some ways to block it and some ways to be able to do you think? But I just want people to know you get to choose your state, how much pain you have, coping levels, your testosterone levels. What do you know about biohacking for women specifically?

Well, when it comes to women's health, usually I'm like referring on to female, like female practitioners who are like, well, better, better versed than I am. But in terms of their. Let's just look at like the calorie intake side of things during their period. I think the most obvious one is like around when they're getting their. That when they're menstruating is. Is when they need to up their calories. Usually they get different types of cravings. And I mean, this is again, probably an adaptive response the body's wanting more nutrients during a period when it's losing nutrients. But in terms of balancing their hormones, I would say most women should focus on optimizing thyroid hormones before they try and optimize the sex steroid hormones because it's such a misunderstood sort of pathway and it most like T3 free T3 levels is so incredibly important for so many things.

Yeah, I feel like that's also true for men. I was 26 and I'd hit that £300 and my thyroid was almost undetectable and my testosterone were lower than my mom. And wow. When you get your energy back, energy is more important than sex hormones. It's a survival thing. Get your energy back. The body may start making sex hormones, but you probably want to supplement both when it comes to women and biohacking. I think the most important piece of information I have, and I've written a book on fertility, like I've gone really deep on female hormones and all that. It's at around 35 women, some they start to hit the wall like, like what is wrong with me? And it's because your body makes stress hormones, cortisol and adrenaline. These are necessary and useful.

Right.

But it also makes counter stress hormones. And these are things like progesterone, pregnenolone and DHEA. And at 35 and specifically between 35 and 45, your production of those goes out. So if cortisol and adrenaline are energizing, but aging and stressful and you make their counterbalance very well before you're 35, you can have resilience. But since you keep making your stress hormones but your counterbalance production goes away, you should know that about 35, if you're a woman, your job is to measure progesterone, pregnenolone and DHEA and c, start supplementing those. So you have your counter stress hormones the way you did when you were 25. And if you do this, you'll have much, much easier perimenopause, probably much later. And when you go into perimenopause, for God's sake, get on bioidentical hormone replacement therapy right away. So you reduce your risk of everything bad that happens when you age. And you'll probably have a much higher chance of staying married because perimenopause destroys. Enjoys a lot of relationships, it really does. And it's no one's fault. It's just a stressful time. And it's stressful because you don't have counter stress hormones there. That's my master class for women. In biohacking hormones.

What do you think? So it's so, so important the counter regulatory hormones, dhea, pregnenolone, progesterone, progesterone, strongly gabaergic as well. So it offsets the anxiety and the irritability that comes with like low, low progesterone. And so like there's if we look at ways to actually upregulate progesterone production, a lot of it actually does come from having high levels of T3. So that's why I think like T3 actually helps with the synthesis and production of. They work sort of hand in hand in the body. But yeah, you're spot on. Like completely fully agree with that.

What is one supplement you will never you to get?

Okay. So for me the one supplement that I would never use again would have to be Ashwagandha. I mean you've heard never even once. No, because like if I look at the what am I trying to achieve by using ashwagandha, I can achieve in other ways and without the side effects and the risks. So it would have to be yeah, Ashwagandha or reishi mushroom. Reishi. And I've. I've recommended reishi to, to guys a long, long time ago when I didn't actually realize how potent anti androgenic reishi mushroom was. The guys that I recommended to that they, they were not happy. They were not happy because they, they've reported feeling just, just really like not, not themselves.

I'm going to watch out for reishi. I, I'd use it Bernie and stuff. I don't use it very often. I and I've learned over the years. I started out with like spreadsheets. It's my, my early 20s. I'm gonna figure all this out. And I have everything laid out for morning, kind of middle of the day, evening. And I know in Suza that I read my body doesn't want that one. I was like I want that one that cares their name. Tuition animals do this all the time. Like I want that blade of grass, not that one. So I've learned to honor that and I just don't feel attracted to Raci. If I was to to think of the one supplement I would never use again. It's something called inosine. Do you know this one?

Iosine I N O S I N E Inosine. Yeah, I think I've tried it like once or twice. But isn't it a purine, purinergic sort of amino acid?

It is it, it's a hypoxanthine plus ribose. And it's powerful because it's neuroprotective and it supports mitochondria, but it raises uric acid. And I took this for three days and I got gout, and it took me a while. What is going on? There's this weird spiky feeling in my arm. My right knee swelled up in a way that felt really familiar. And I realized when I was like 19, I had gout. And I didn't know it because there's a weird autoimmune thing with gout. And it's entirely different than the kind of pain you get from oxalate. I know where oxalate deposits. And like, literally my. My knees doubled in size. Like, what happened? Because I went bioactive. I stopped inosine, and I don't need a high purine diet, but I do take about a glam of mixed organs. My company makes a thing like that because it's good for basically nutrients. But that was crazy. So I actually, because I have a fully stocked pharmacy at home, I'm like, oh, I have some olapurinol and I turned it around in a week, but it was brutal. So that's a supplement. I would not mess around with my brain levels. It's just not worth it to you. Vitamin C. So that would be out of. Out of my thing. It's taken a while to clear all the uric acid out of the joint.

It was.

It was pretty. Pretty gnarly.

Damn. Damn. I think I'd say, like, probably like less than 5% of your audience will even have heard of, honestly. And it's a very. It is a very rare one, isn't it? Like, not many people would even know it.

It is a rare one, but, like, if anything is going to increase mitochondrial function, I'm probably gonna try it. I'm not. That's just how. How my brain works.

Let's. I mean, I'm curious to hear about, like, in terms of mitochondrial supplements. I mean, you've spoken heavily about PQQ, coenzyme Q10D ribose. Like, which ones. Do you still take all of these today? I'm actually curious.

Oh, absolutely. I take all of those today. I still believe PQQ is mostly a scam because if you have stomach acid present, it crystallizes out. I wrote about this in one of my books, so I used to make a liposomal form that was awesome. But it's very hard to. To do that. So what you can do is either take it on an empty stomach or Take it with a little bit of baking soda just to keep the ph where it needs to so your cells can actually get use of it. There's also things like acetyl L. Carnitine is like a very well known mitochondrial fatty acid oxidation enhancer. So like that's something that I, I do on a regular basis.

There's actually, there's one that I really, I'm actually super excited to share with you Dave. It's, it's a type of inositol. I, I don't know if you've heard of it before, but it's called inositol trispy phosphate itpp. Oh, interesting.

You know, I know myoinos and inoctitol, but that's say it one more time.

Inositol tris pyrophosphate. So itpp, this one here, you're going to be, you're going to be blown away by what this one does. Basically what happens in the body is normally red blood cells only release about 25% of their stored oxygen during each circuit around the body. But ITPPLE actually increases this figure by about 35%. So the way I look at itpp, it is, it is used by, it's, it's used in horse racing because it's a massively improves endurance. ITPP basically feels like EPO in a capsule. Like that's my subjective experience with it.

It's a little known noble gas that has effects on perspiration. Know what I'm talking about?

Not chlorine dioxide, not nitric oxide.

Xenon.

Oh, xenon, yeah. Yep, yep, yep. I, I wrote about this in I.

Think my longevity book, but it's very hard to get. I just got a tank of xenon.

Nice.

And it's used as a surgical anesthetic. At high doses, which I wouldn't want to do, it also can make you trip balls. But very low dose, carefully controlled, it raises the amount of red blood cells like epo. In fact, some people just climbed Everest using that to precondition. So this is something, if you had a great anesthesiologist, they would give you that instead of propofol or something else. But it's one of those things that should be standard of care because there's no downside, only upside from a neurological perspective. But instead they give you bad drugs like propofol oxaloacetate.

You're a clear okay no, but I'm pretty sure HMB hydroxymethylbutyrate gets converted into oxaloacetate you wouldn't get the same benefits. But is oxaloacetate used interchangeably with like malic acid or some of these other things?

Okay, so in the Krebs cycle in our mitochondria when we're making energy, the very last step before we inject another bit of food with acetyl Coa, it's oxaloacetate. So if there's any mitochondrial loss along the way, then you're going to run out of the thing that primes the pump for the next trip around. So you take straight oxaloacetate and I used to make a product called keto prime when I was labour yeast, a product called Benadine and it's direct oxaloacetate and you put that under your tongue. I've seen it like reverse headaches. I've seen it just get rid of migraines. It works for athletic performance and it's an off label European treatment for glioblastoma. That's a mitochondrial brain cancer.

Wow.

So you use that and boost glioblastoma, which is hard to treat and shrink or even go away just by fixing mitochondria via oxaloacetate by just priming the pump to keep working. Junior mitochondria are getting shitty broken. Imagine a diesel vehicle and this smoke coming out all over the place. It's not converting fuel into motion very well. But with XLS state you're saying, well any of that smoke that comes out, don't worry about it, I can always put, put something in so the end to always turn over even if it would have failed. And that can resuscitate mitochondria. So that can be really helpful. But it will drop you out of stetosis. There's also Wifnim orotate I've written about yet and Beckhart seen write about that too. We talked about taurine and then the stuff I put in danger coffee Humic and fulvic acid are mitochondrial enhance. So like that's kind of my list of things I do almost every day.

Yeah, I can't wait for you to try the itpp, the inositol tris pyrophosphate. Once you see some research on it, you'll be, I, I can almost guarantee you you're going to want to release it to the market because it's, it's unbelievably effective. It's completely different to like myoinositol but it's, it's honestly like the endurance, the mental clarity. It's really, really good.

It's Going to work like intermittent hypoxic training. Yeah, it makes your hemoglobin let go of oxygen more easily. And I do intermittent hypoxic training at Upgrade labs. Okay. This is a cool supplement. I'm gonna play around with this.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. 250 milligrams sublingually is what I use three times a week. So I do 250 milligrams sublingually Monday, Wednesday, Friday. And I've also done it before jumping into my hyperbaric chamber as well. And gee, I just feel amazing. Amazing from that.

Wow. It seems like it would probably work when you're climbing Mount Everest or when you're at altitude or something like that as well.

They actually injected it into like mouse. So basically what happened is it increases maximal exercise capacity in normal mice as well as mice with severe heart failure failure as well. So literally improving endurance in severe heart failure.

So I'm looking here, it says not approved for human use, but I'm like, hold on a second. I don't seek approval from anyone for what I do for my body because I don't have a daddy out there anymore because I'm a grown ass adult. And I wish we'd just get over that idea. I do not seek or require approval to take care of my biology. I like knowledge and advice and recommendations. I'll even pay for them. But especially if it's a regulatory body with the history of the planet with an injection that was untested, I do not want their approval. It means it probably doesn't work and isn't in my interest until proven otherwise. That's just my take on things. What do you think?

Oh, man, I'm very, very, very similar mindset, Dave. You know, you know how I operate as well.

So that's how it is. But that said, if anyone's looking at using itpp, it looks really interesting. Risks potentially like hyper oxide.

It's actually literally used. There's a. There's another name that they use for itpp, it's called OXO111 and it's studied to treat tumor, like to reduce tumor growth in humans.

So it has been used medically?

Oh, it has been, yeah.

Cool. Wow, that's a cool find. Thanks, man. I'm gonna check that out. Lucas, where can people find your website and all that kind of stuff? Getting your big jerks on YouTube.

Just search, boost your biology. I've just uploaded over a thousand videos there. I'm just continuing to go there and then Instagram as well. They can just search my Name Lucas. L U C A S and the surname is A O U N and it's ergogenic Health. I was obsessed with the word ergogenic from like when I was 17, so I made that my brand name just stayed with it.

I got to ask you this. Your last name is missing some consonants. It's all vowel. A, O, U, N. How do you pronounce that properly?

It's a like but I just make it easy for people and just say Owen like O, W, E, N. So.

It'S like noun but without the first D. Yeah. And is it different if it's like an Australian.

Yeah. Or in the Middle East? In. In Lebanon. It's Yeah. Aun.

Oh, is it? It's a Lebanese name. Probably. Okay, got it. I was like, I know I'm going to say that like some nuance wrong, but. All right, Aun, I got it. All right, Lucas. Aun. Thanks man. You guys Ergon and health booth gear, biology and if you're looking for like an up and coming biohacker who's got that level of curiosity and self experimentation, you know, I see a lot of the stuff that motivated me motivating you, like I want to show up this. I don't feel good. You've be myself all the time. So keep doing it, man.

I appreciately awesome man. Looking forward to attending the the conference that you're hosting next year in Austin, Texas.

See you next time on the Human Upgrade Podcast. A Human Upgrade, formerly Bulletproof Radio, was created and is hosted by Dave Asprey. The information contained in this podcast is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended for the purposes of of diagnosing, treating, curing or preventing any disease. Before using any products referenced on the podcast, consult with your healthcare provider carefully read all labels and heed all directions and cautions that accompany the products. Information found or received through the podcast should not be used in place of a consultation or advice from a healthcare provider. If you suspect you have a medical problem or should you have any healthcare questions, please promptly call or see your healthcare provider. This podcast, including Dave Asprey and the producers, disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information contained herein. Opinions of guests are their own and this podcast does not endorse or accept responsibility for statements made by guests. This podcast does not make any representations or warranties about guest qualifications or credibility. This podcast may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products or services. Individuals on this podcast may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to herein. This podcast is owned by Bulletproof Media.