Upgrade Spotlight: Cook Faster, Easier & Better With Light – Brava : 964

You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey, formerly Bulletproof Radio. You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. Today is a special spotlight edition where I talk about something you probably haven't heard about, usually some kind of new tech or new something. And we're going to talk about a new way of cooking, and it's cooking with light. And the idea here is you're going to learn how to save yourself time, perform better, or just do something better than you did before. And I'm shockingly impressed, to put it real bluntly, with what I'm seeing from Cooking with Light and a bunch of other cool tech. So that's why I've asked the head executive from Braava, whose name is Travis Ray, to join us and talk about what? Cooking with Light. Is this the next microwave? The answer is no. It's way better than microwave. He's got a degree in culinary arts from California Culinary Academy, and he is a professional chef. And he led the culinary team who developed this pure light technology for cooking. So this is a real chef who developed this really high tech, digitally controlled. Like, as a fellow food hacker, I'm just having a blast with my Brava. So I wanted to talk with them about it. Travis, welcome.

Thanks for having me, Dave. It's a pleasure to be here.

All right, you're a chef. You've got like a white chef shirt and you probably have a chef hat somewhere in a drawer there that you're not wearing because it would look funny with headphones. But you're a well trained chef. I have a fully disclosed fetish for molecular gastronomy, or the idea of applying laboratory grade techniques to cooking so that you can make food do very precise things. The former CTO of Microsoft popularized this almost 20 years ago. His name is Nathan Mervold. I've had laboratory grade temperature controllers and stuff in my kitchen. And some of my own cookbook is based on precise temperature control, looking at how do I change the temperature of food so that I feel amazing when I eat it and it tastes good instead of just tastes good. So you had all those tools available to you already before you went out to create a technology of cooking with light. It almost seems like we didn't need that. Why did you take your professional chef thing and go in this direction?

It's funny, when I first heard about Brava Back in 2017, it came to me from a. From a friend of a friend who introduced me to the CEO of Braava. And what I had heard was that they've developed this technology that was cooking with light that could cook a steak in five minutes flat. And it sounded way too good to be true. And what I had heard was that they have developed this technology that was cooking with light that could cook a steak in five minutes flat. And it sounded way too good to be true. I mean, I live out in Silicon Valley, and I think we've seen a lot of products out here that people. That may be great products, but people don't necessarily need. And that's what I first thought about Bravo. Because coming from a professional cooking background, I know how to cook. And really, for me to cook good food at home, I just need a pan and a knife and some fire, and I'm pretty good to go. And I couldn't wrap my head around this idea of cooking with lamps. I kept thinking, like, that's what the Easy Bake Oven does. And that thing's not very advanced.

Wouldn't it ruin the food anyway? And that was. That would be my thought. Right. Like microwaving a steak. Like, who would ever do that? Right. But there's no microwaves in this.

Yeah. And they were telling me it could sear a steak. And I said, no, it's impossible. You can't put a steak in a box and have it come out perfectly seared in minutes. It just doesn't. These things don't add up to me. So I went and checked it out. At the time, the company was in a house in the East Bay, about 20 people all in standing desks. And when I walked through the house, they were building the prototypes in the garage with welding masks. And I thought, okay, that's kind of cool. But I still didn't believe it was going to work. And they cooked me a salmon, and they cooked me a steak with potatoes. And the steak and potatoes cooking at the same time, too. And we'll talk a little bit more about that later. But when they cooked the steak, it was done in about five minutes. And I could not believe my eyes with what I was seeing, because it came out perfectly seared. There was no interaction required. All the person who cooked it had to do was season the steak with salt, put it on the tray with a little bit of butter, and push a button, and it came out perfectly seared and cooked to the perfect temp faster than I've ever seen a steak be cooked before. And so I knew that they were onto something special here. And that was just the very early beginning days of Bravo. Right when they were proving that the technology could work. So I wanted to be a part of the company, and I was coming at it from the culinary angle. I joined Brava to help build the culinary team and learn how to cook with light. Had I known, I think, what. What we were getting into in the beginning, I probably would have. Probably would have run away because it sounded too complex once I got involved in it. But what was really amazing was the technology part of this. And that's really what's behind Brava is the pure light technology that we developed and optimized. And what that really means is that we're cooking with infrared, invisible light. But where I was talking about the Easy Bake Oven before, if you think of the Easy Bake Oven, cooking with light, it does. But the Easy Bake Oven I would equate to a golf cart. And Bravo is more like a Tesla in that it gets better over time. It's connected to the Internet, and we push new recipes to it every week. And we can also add new cooking functions to it over time. So we've added functions like air fry or dehydrate or even rice cook to people who, when they first bought Brava, they didn't have those functions on there at all. So it's a product that gets better with time. But back to the lamp technology. That's where the magic really happens. And it allows us to do a couple of things. One, it allows us to cook really, really fast. Two to four times faster than any other conventional oven. Another thing that it allows us to do is do multi zone cooking, because Brava is powered by six lamps. These are lamps that were originally designed to anneal, which is to remove the particles from melting metal. And this was for silicon wafers. Yeah. So Brava's lamps are actually designed to be able to melt metal in five seconds. So the key difference here between Brava and a regular oven or other cooking technology, I'll start with the other cooking technology. Regular ovens have not had much advancement in decades. They're all. They all use heater coil technology, which is perfectly fine for cooking, but it is not very precise, and it's slow to heat up and slow to turn off when we cook. With Bravo, we have six, essentially, spotlights, three of them on top and three of them on bottom. And those spotlights are instant on, off. And the true power of that is because they can go up to full power instantly, but they shut off just as quickly. And so the real trick to cooking so quickly is that we're able to bring the surface temperature of foods up very Fast to start developing the Maillard the browning reaction in the three hundreds. Right when that starts, though, we back off and move the lamp to a different section, or we use a different lamp and hit a different section of the tray. And by pulsing those lights in increments, that is what actually accelerates the rate of thermal transfer through the food in a way that you cannot do in a regular oven or even on a stove top, because we're hitting it with really powerful energy. It's actually 80 times the power of the sun. And really, if you think about Bravo's lamps, what we're doing is concentrating the energy from those lamps and using optics like mirrors to bounce and reflect it around the oven chamber and concentrating that light of the sun. If you think about, like, we can set a piece of paper on fire very quickly in Brava. And to illustrate this point, if you think about sticking a piece of paper out in the bright sun at. At noon, the hottest day that you can imagine, it's not going to catch on fire. If you put that sunlight through a magnifying glass, you can start a fire pretty quickly. And even though we're not using magnifying glasses, we're using mirrors to concentrate that energy from those lamps, Energy that's powerful enough to melt metal. But delivering it onto food and doing it in a very precise and choreographed way, that's what the chefs at Bravit do, is choreograph each lamp. So if you were to look at. If we were to open the oven door on Bravo, what you would see is kind of like a disco party light show going on there. We're usually only running one lamp at a time, but we're bringing surface temperatures up and then backing off and moving to a different section of the tray and synchronizing this whole thing so that you can actually cook steak and potatoes and asparagus all at the same time and have it all come out together at the same time.

How does the oven know, like, where the asparagus is versus where the steak is? Because the way it works, it kind of has the form factor of hermetically sealed toaster oven. And it's way better than air fryer, though it can air fry. It's like it's not really from the same planet, but for someone who's never seen it, by the way, it's over my shoulder. I keep it next to my espresso machine now. Um, but so how does it know? Like. Like there's a metal tray or a glass tray, I put it in there and I can put veggies and meat, and I can run a bunch of different programs, but I am a hacker, so I'm like, I'll just make my own. I want this temperature for this amount of time. But is this an AI vision thing? Because there's a camera, and it's the coolest thing. You just look at the camera, and you can watch the food brown right in front of you without opening the door. But what. What tells it that this is, you know, cabbage versus toast.

So Bravo is we like to say it's as easy as 1, 2, 3. All you have to do is select what you want to cook, load the tray, and press the button, and then watch it cook on the camera. It knows what you're cooking because you've told it what you want to cook. So let's say that you want to cook chicken legs and sweet potatoes and broccoli. You type those three things in there. We have over 7,000 combinations of ingredients, and that's a growing list, by the way. When we launched Brava, it was, I think, 200 recipe programs. Through AI and a few other developments over the years, we exponentially increased the number of combinations that we could do because we. We learned how ingredients perform under the lamps. So it's not using the camera to visually recognize the specific food, though that is a possibility in the future. We may in the future have the ability to do browning detection via the camera and other things. But right now, you're telling Bravo what you want to cook, and it's simply telling you, here's where we want you to place it on the tray.

Okay? And that's why it says, place it in the middle rack. But if it was steak and potatoes on the same rack, it's going to say, place this steak on the left.

Yes, got it.

And I will admit that I have used fewer of the recipes. They're all loaded in there. And for listeners, I don't really think I need a Bluetooth toaster, to be perfectly honest. In fact, I think it's probably the biggest waste of Bluetooth radios on the planet for something like that. So this, it connects via WI Fi, and I wish you guys had an Ethernet port, because I really don't like WI fi. It's turned off most of the time at my house, but it operates just fine. You can download the recipes, and you don't have to have it connected. So you can just disable the WI fi radio when you don't want to have it on, but you can download a ton of recipes, and it Has a bunch stored on it. So I feel like it makes good use of the Internet, but it doesn't have to have the Internet working if you have the app and all that stuff, like it's better, I think. But for me, I just go to the interface, which is a color interface, it has a camera on the inside and I tell it what I want to cook and it tells me what to do. I put it in there and it comes out really good in way less time. And I, you know, I only bring stuff on that I use and I like. It took me four months after you guys sent me one to be like, oh God, I gotta plug in this frickin toaster oven. This is just like full honesty, like how much better could it be? And oh, maybe a month ago I finally said my countertop stove thing broke. I'm just gonna try it. And I'm like, what did, what have I been missing? It's so much better than anything I've cooked with, even with recipe development things which I haven't done much of lately. But that's, you know, what I do? I'm, I'm blown away because I can say exactly this temperature and I can make my own recipes and all that. What's your, what's your marketer? Is this like professional chefs, like, like home snobs? Is this something that's meant to, you need, you don't need an oven if you have this if you're in a small apartment, like what, what's the point of the whole thing?

That's a great question and thank you for sharing that experience because yours pretty much mirrors mine. In fact, when I told you, when I heard about Bravo, I didn't believe it. I saw it work and so then I believed it, obviously. And I worked for Bravo for 18 months, learning how to cook with light and developing the purelight technology with the physicists and mathematicians that were all on staff here at Braava. I did not think I was going to use Braava at home. I didn't think it was for me because like I said, I didn't think I had a problem. I already know how to cook, trained. I know how to cook and I love, love cooking. And so I believed in the product, but I didn't think it was really for me. Fast forward 18 months after I started here and I got to take my first prototype home. And at the time, my wife and I had three young kids, the twins were four months old. And I took the toaster and I put it under the counter and I said you can't use this anymore. We've got to work with this at home. And she looked at me like she wanted to kill me. Within a week, she was using it every day. What shocked me was I was using it every day. And I think I had to get outside of that test kitchen environment and bring it into my own home. And what I started realizing, I mean, this was all pre Covid. So I was still staying at work late and coming home and going to the gym before I came home. And my wife and I would spend four hours every Sunday trying to kind of prep everything out and get situated so that cooking during the week wouldn't be as big of a chore. And we found very quickly that we got to get that four hours back and spend it with our kids instead of spending it in the kitchen. And instead of cooking six chicken breasts on Sunday and reheating them throughout the week, I was able to come home at 8:30 at night from the gym and just pop one in. Bravo. And have it be done in 10 minutes.

And there's no turning. You just turn it on and it. And it goes.

For most things, there are some recipes that we call them multi step recipes where you can interact with it. And certain foods do better with some kind of interaction. For example, a thin hamburger I think works a lot better when you hit it from the bottom and kind of think of our metal tray as a frying pan because it is. The lamps are so powerful. You can, you can put a cold piece of protein on there, turn it on full power, and within 20 seconds you start hearing sizzling, which is bananas.

No, I used the glass tray for the first time with some pork sausage from our own pigs on asprey farms here. And it took for freaking ever. And that's because of the glass tray. You just explained it. I was thinking this is three times longer than when I used the metal tray. And that's why. Okay, thanks.

The metal tray conducts and the glass tray is really good at really differentiating the zone. So when you have something like a salmon that you want to get super crispy skin and that's going to take a lot of energy to get that. The cool thing about the glass tray is that you can put something next to it like cherry tomatoes that we. If you put those on a metal tray next to the salmon, they're going to fry, they're going to burst and everything's going to be a big mess with that glass tray because it can uniquely separate out those zones. You can cook something that has a Very aggressive, hard cooking time next to something that's very gentle.

Oh, and you just turn up the lamps, you say, and put the salmon on the left. So it's going to get a lot more heat from the lights on the left. And then the cherry tomatoes. Get gentle warming. Whatever you do to cherry tomatoes, nasty little red things. Gross.

Exactly. Because they don't. That glass tray doesn't, doesn't conduct very well.

How important are all the different metal accessories? I mean, you sent me one of everything because I kind of go all in or go home on stuff like that. Like, I'm like, of course I want all the accessories. Let's give it a try. The egg pan. I mean, you do ridiculously good things for eggs. I feel like that one's super worth it. The metal trays and the glass tray, do they come with it? I think you get a metal tray and a glass tray. Right. Aren't those default?

Yes. There's three different sets and so the, the bra, the, the unit itself is the same in all three different sets. The only differences is in the number of accessories.

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You're listening to the human upgrade with Dave Asprey. I think you get a metal train of glass tray. Right. Aren't those defaults?

Yes, there's three different sets and so the Bravo, the unit itself is the same in all three different sets. The only difference is in the number of accessories you get. So the starter set comes with a glass tray and a metal tray and the temp sensor. When you do the bake and breakfast set, it adds the egg tray, a muffin tray, a square pan and a loaf pan. And then the chef's choice is all of that plus the chef's pan which is very similar to a Dutch oven or a Le Creuset style. It's a cast iron enameled cast iron braiser.

I mentioned earlier modernist cuisine or what used to be called molecular gastronomy. But the idea of really looking at what's happening between fats and proteins and meats so that we end up getting foods without too many advanced glycation end products or foods that have over denatured and basically destroyed proteins. So technically if you eat raw liver, it's better for you than deep fried liver for instance. So what do we know about the level of advanced glycation end products or ages or PAHs that are formed with lights versus grilling versus searing in a traditional oven?

We haven't done a lot of deep studies on those two things that you mentioned. Exactly. However, what I can say is we're using a technology that's really just a concentration of what people have been using using to cook since caveman times. It's the same spectrum of light as the sun or as a campfire. However, what we're not introducing, where you see this a lot on, particularly on grilling, is the carcinogens and the, the carbons that are going to be created because of the smoke from the fat that drips down and then comes back up and hits the protein. We don't have any of that because one, there's no smoke. We, we do smoke mitigation and that's part of the, part of the recipe design. So when we bring, there obviously will be some element of smoke anytime you're trying to sear a piece of meat. But what we do is right when it gets up to that point, we turn the lamp off and move it somewhere else or we, or we stop and we put a pause, step in there completely, where we just shut the lamps off for 10 seconds. Yeah, the food's still cooking, the heat is, the energy is still working its way through the protein. While we're doing that, all we're doing is shutting it off so that we don't create that smoke and that we don't create those same kind of carcinogens that you would see coming off of a grill.

The only smoke that I've seen is if I have like a particularly juicy piece of meat. And some of it gets onto the metal tray when it's still hot and you open the door right after that, you see a little bit. But what a lot of people don't know is that indoor air pollution from cooking is the number two source of lung cancer after smoking. It is a really big deal. If you don't turn that hood on over your stove when you cook. If you have an air quality monitor, it's going to go into the red zone within a few minutes. And if you use a traditional air fryer, you're also going to see massive, massive spikes in the, the small particles you're breathing. And funny enough, if you wear even like a hospital grade mask for those cooking particles, they're so small they go right through it. Unlike other equally small particles that magically can't go through a mask. But you know, from a, from a protective perspective, I think you ought to not allow cooking fumes into your environment. I do not smell a lot, but I do smell some food cooking when I use my Brava. But it's way less like 10% of what you smell from a typical air fryer, which I stopped using because it was, was polluting the air. You have to turn on like a huge vent hood if you're going to use an air fryer. So is it sealed? Is there an air filter in there? Like, what are you doing other than just not making smoke? Because you have really smart, you know, LED lights that do infrared. Is there any other thing that's protecting me?

Well, there's three fans in there. And in fact, when we're doing most cooking outside of baking, we're actually trying to keep the chamber as cool as possible. That helps keep the outside cool. And our chief technology officer, Thomas the One who really invented this technology or figured out a way to apply it, he would tell you that you can cook in the same amount of time with Brava's door open as you can with it closed.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, that's to kind of help illustrate the power of the energy that's being delivered. So we have the three fans that are constantly trying to keep everything cool inside, and we're venting out as much hot air as possible through, through the back. But you're right, it is contained and so you can cook things like salmon. And your whole house doesn't start smelling like fish because it, it really contains a lot of the. If it is a, like a greasy cook, for instance, bacon, or if you're cooking chicken thighs, there's going to be some grease popping off. And if you're cooking that on the stovetop, you're breathing that stuff. With Brava, it's going to all get trapped either in the fan or along the walls. And you can see that when you, when you cook a fattier piece of meat, that there will be some residue on the wall of Brava. The easiest thing to deal with it, though, is you just wipe it down with a paper towel and it's gone.

Yeah, I haven't had a hard time cleaning mine. I have cooked fatty sausage, ribeye, and from our cows on the farm here, we had some like Maui style ribs. And those are definitely going to be fatty. And they came out really, really well. And you just. I wiped it with a paper towel. It was done. So the cleanup is a lot better than in a typical oven. Now, question from the upgrade collective on the line. There's. It's an 1800 watt appliance, but I'm just guessing there shouldn't be a power surge because LEDs don't have a power surge. Incandescent lights and halogen lights have a power surge because when you turn them on, basically have to heat up so they suck as much power until they're at temperature. But LEDs just instantly flip on with an even thing. Or is there a spike?

You're going to see some spike, but we equalize the spike. That's one of the coolest things about the technology and one of the hardest, hardest problems that we had to solve. Because when you create a precision cooking tool, people are going to expect that it's going to work the same anywhere. But power, the amount of power delivered to your house may be different than the power that's delivered to my house or the power from somebody in a New York City Apartment might be very different from somebody in Ohio. If you're running a regular type oven, it's not really a big deal because you're just going to increase time. But a lot of our recipe programs are not based just on time. They're based on temperature and a bunch of other variables. So what's cool about Braava? And one of the hardest problems we solved was equalizing the current that was coming through the wall. And we, we equalize it thousands of times per second to make sure that that power that's being sent to your brava is the exact same in New York as it is in Ohio as it is in Vancouver, so that the results are the same everywhere else.

It, it's really interesting that you had to solve that. In the medical laser industry, there's low powered cold lasers that you use. And for them to be effective, same thing, you have to have a really high quality power supply that delivers exactly the right current because we're dealing with high end optics. And probably some of the most precise engineering on the planet is semiconductor wafer engineering. Because you have the tiniest little variants, it destroys a huge lot of really expensive silicon wafers. So you had to sort of generalize that so that you have power control in order to get the right temperatures. Because you can't just put a dimmer Switch on most LEDs unless there's special circuitry. So it's very precise. And I just realized that you've just done a crossover thing from tech that no one would ever think to cook with. That one crazy engineer said, let's take this thing that was never meant for cooking and let's see what can be done that's never been done before. I didn't really get that vibe when I first got my Braava. Like, oh, great. Just another kind of toy that I'm going to try and probably put in the garage. But it has really rapidly just been, oh, can I cook it in there? Because it's faster, it's less work, it's less cleanup and it comes out better. And it seems like you've done something that's actually transformational. And it uses the same amount of power as heating up the main oven, but the whole meal is done. What's the downside? What do you worry about? What keeps you up at night?

Honestly, I don't think there are downsides to it. I think that what Brahma does is give you options. And some people like me originally I thought, I'm not going to need this thing, I'm not going to use it, because I don't need it. I love cooking. What I found is that it gives me options in those times when I don't feel like cooking, which actually, which happens when I'm busy, I can do something and have it fully automated and not worry about it so that I can do other things. It gives me time to either work on something else on the stovetop or it gives me time to just relax and go hang out with my kids. So I don't think there's a lot of downsides. I mean, I guess one of the downsides you could say about Brava is if you don't have an oven, Thanksgiving might be difficult because you can't fit a whole turkey in Brava. So maybe that's one you could feed.

Probably four people with a Brava, would you say?

At least. And it depends on if, you know, if you get accessories like the chef's page, where you can do big braises and stews that can feed, you know, up to up to eight people. So. But yeah, I think in most applications for anywhere from one to four people. And it's really cool because a lot of the recipes give you the option of choosing how many servings you want to. You want to cook.

Yeah, Even there's, you know, rice cooking and things like that. You just throw it in, I think the chef's pan, and then it magically cooks your rice.

It does. I. I use that one every week.

I haven't tried that part yet, but I'm interested because again, it's just a major time saver. And guys, anytime there's an upgrade spotlight or just anytime that someone has something cool that they're selling, I always ask for a discount. So There you go. Brava.comB, r A V A use code Dave. Save 200 bucks before the end of the year. And I just, I gotta say, I never would have thought in a thousand years that I would do an upgrade spotlight on a new way of cooking. Because the last new way of cooking was pretty much microwaves and maybe a little bit air fryers, which are just convection ovens in a small form factor, let's put it that way. This is something different, and it works, and it works way faster than before. You do get your time back. The one downside, I could say they're still relatively expensive, especially compared to a cheaper toaster oven or something. They do a lot more, but they buy you time back. So you might not buy this if it's your first oven in college, but if you don't have an oven in the place where you live. This is the only thing you're ever going to buy because it's cheaper than buying an oven and it's going to do remarkable things that an oven can't do, other than a whole turkey, in which case, screw that noise, it's all hollow in the middle anyway. Just get the breasts, you'll be fine. So that's my take on it, and thanks for your own skepticism before you joined the company, saying, look, I'm a trained chef, I don't need this, and realizing actually I did, and I'm rapidly becoming someone where I put it next to my espresso machine, which I wouldn't have thought I would do. But I do not see myself cooking without that most of the time because it just works better and it's a big time savings. For anyone who listens, it's code davebrava.com what's the deal with kids in Brava?

Is it easy? I'm really glad that you asked. My 7 year old uses it to make grilled cheeses. We have so many stories from our community. One about kids. They're one of the One of our customers sent in a photo of her grandson. She takes care of her husband at home who has Parkinson's, and so it already helped her to help prepare food. She was busy taking care of her husband. Her grandson has autism. And she said it's been one of the best things for him because it actually enables him to cook and he's able to do it safely and he is able to just push the button. We've had stories from other people that have diabetes that have said that they've lost an amazing amount of weight in a short period of time and it's helped them take control over their diet. Even other people that are visually impaired that were not able to cook with a pan and fire are now able to cook a full meal in 10 or 15 minutes just by pressing a button. And there's a story after story from our community, other people. One gentleman named Christopher said, in the brief time I've owned Brava, I've cooked more vegetables than my prior 38 years on this planet. And we've heard about kids eating brussels sprouts that always hated brussels sprouts because they get involved and it's so easy. All you do is toss the brussels sprouts with a little bit of olive oil and some salt and put it in there and press a button. And so it's a really easy way and a fun way of getting kids excited and interested in cooking and in a way that's safe so that they, they can, you can feel confident that they're not going to get burned and that they're going to enjoy watching it cook on a camera. And they feel like they've had this agency because at the end of the day, if you don't season your food properly, like Bravo's going to cook it perfectly, but it's still not going to taste great if you don't season it right. And so it still gives you that sense of agency and control over your meal. And that's what I like about it is it puts you in the driver's seat. And I think I've heard so many people say that they think it's worth so much more money than it is that we sell it for because they end up saving money in the long run because they cook at home more often. They take control of their health and their nutrition and they order takeout and eat out way, way less.

I actually believe what you're saying, which is some pretty big claims just because of what I've seen. I already would cook at home anyway because I live in the middle of nowhere and I know how I feel when I cook the right stuff. For most people, the reason you go out is because of less mess, less time, it's just less work. This does reduce the time so that the equation, the amount of friction in your life to eat in versus going out, it shifts the amount of friction. And we are animals wired to do the lowest friction thing all the time. So that was what got me really interested in it. Two other questions here. One is about fan noise. The fans are very quiet compared to an air fryer. And I have a relatively high end air fryer that's not in the same universe. I probably could have it on right now and it would be the same sound as the remote air conditioner thing. You probably wouldn't pick it up on the microphone. And so I gotta say that it does it. And there's a question about EMFs. I'm guessing it's much lower EMFS than a microwave, but that's kind of a poor standard. Do you guys ever measure EMFs coming off of it? LEDs don't make a lot of EMFs compared to microwaves I have not.

But I'll talk to our CTO about it and they can get back to you on that.

It'd be interesting. And if you turn off the WI fi, it shouldn't be terribly high. It's a large metal grounded device, which helps so you shouldn't be getting much coming off of it. It just. As an engineer, you might see some weird spike on your power when you turn it on, but that's unlikely because of the power conditioning that they had to do there. And final question from the Upgrade Collective on the website, it says that you can't do a wall mount or a built in because of ventilation off the back. Are you guys looking at plumbing it in the way you would a normal oven so that there's some kind of ventilation? Because some people are really interested in just having this tech in a normal oven.

We're working on a few things. Yeah, I don't want to pull the curtain back too much, but I think.

Something like that, the answer was yes.

Yes. All right, cool.

So something will happen there. And guys, look, you may not need one of these, but if you want to save time on cooking, you want to simplify cooking and I love to cook. I'm not always going to use it, but this will do that and it'll buy you some time back every day with less mess and better food. Unless you really are good at cooking, then it's on par. And we have a certified trained chef here who says that. And I'm not certified, but I'm pretty knowledgeable to the point I could write a cookbook. And this does an admirable job on par with what I could do. But I don't have to think about it. So There you go, Bravo.com, code Dave. Save a couple hundred bucks worth considering. See y' all later.

Thank you so much.

You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey.

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