WOMEN’S HEALTH: How to Get the Right Care – A Top 10 Episode with Dr. Jolene Brighten

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You're listening to Bulletproof Radio with Dave Asprey. Today's guest is Dr. Jolene Brighton and she's an expert in hormone balance, thyroid, and a functional medicine leader. And, and what's interesting about Dr. Jolene is that she's trained in naturopathic medicine, but also in biochemistry. So she goes a little bit deeper than you're likely to find. And she wrote a book called Healing youg Body Naturally After Childbirth, the New Mom's Guide to Navigating the Fourth Trimester. And she's not on just to talk about that. We're going to talk about birth control. We're going to talk about the pill. And I've been an outspoken advocate of not using the pill on the Bulletproof blog since the very beginning of this. So Dr. Jolene is going to help us understand that. And on top of that, we're going to talk about just general hormone problems, differences between men and women nutritionally, and we'll get to some other cool stuff like traumatic brain injury. So it's going to be a fascinating interview today and I'm happy that you're here to listen to it. Dr. Jolene Brighton, thanks for coming on Bulletproof Radio.

Yeah, thanks so much for having me. I've been a big time fan for a long time. So this is really exciting to get to come on here and chat with you and to be chatting about all the biohacking stuff that you've been preaching about forever that the research is finally catching up with, I feel like, and how we can apply that to just modern day society and what we're seeing in people's health.

It's kind of funny. When I surveyed the bulletproof listener base, there are a lot of women who listen to the show and a surprising number of people, at least surprising if you don't have kids, are people who have kids like I do. Mine are around 10 and 7. So let's go in. Given that so many of us either have kids, are having kids or are going to have kids, whether you're a man or a woman, this is stuff you need to hear. We won't go too deep on that. We've only got an hour and we've got a couple other topics. But like what happens in a woman's body after the baby comes out.

Everyone's focus is on baby. So once baby's delivered, like mom gets the six week checkup. Hey, your vagina's looking okay. No signs of infection. Fantastic. Go upon your way. And when you're tired, you're exhausted. You start having symptoms come up. You're met with the diagnosis of being a mother. But for some reason, somewhere along the line, we got it in our head that, you know, women should be able to pop out a baby and then just go along their merry way. And at six weeks, everything's recovered and fine. Reality is, is it takes a whole year to really rebuild the nutrients and recover your body.

Now, when Lana, my wife, who's a medical doctor and co author of the fertility book, when she. When we had kids, I caught both of the kids at home. Afterwards, she described this mommy brain. And I like, actually, it pisses Lana off when I say this, but that means I can say it. She's not in the room.

It pisses every mom off. They hate that word.

She's actually smarter than I am. But once we had the kids, she's like, my brain doesn't work. She's like, I have mommy brain. What's going on here? And I have a good friend right now who's a CEO and she just had a baby, and she's trying to go back to work at six weeks, and she's like, I don't know how to do what I could do before. What's going on there?

Your brain does shrink during the third trimester, and it doesn't come back until about six months postpartum. This is evolution. Being super, super smart. What's the whole premise behind this? Get you hyper focused on baby. You cannot multitask. You can only focus on baby survival. Moms, actually, their brains come back, and if you tend to them, they actually come back stronger. So you're at multitasking your corpus callosum. So both sides, that both sides of the brain are actually connected and talking better. But there's, you know, another layer to all of this, and that is when you deliver your baby, what follows is a placenta. And when you deliver the placenta, your hormones instantly drop to the level of like a post menopausal woman. And we know postmenopausal women have lots of brain fog. Estrogen levels are off, progesterone levels are off. And couple that with the fact that mom is not usually sleeping. And so, you know, maybe it's only three months of not sleeping, maybe it's an entire year, but every time you're not sleeping and you're spiking your core, your cortisol levels at night. But what's really interesting is, so you know, and we'll talk about this with post birth control syndrome, Cause I clinically observed that, like, we can't get women's hormones in balance. We can't do it if the circadian rhythms disrupted. You know what I say is that when all your lights go out in your room, if you can still see anything, like, if you're not tripping over stuff and running into things, it's not dark enough.

So Lana and I actually think that the brain shrinkage for new moms is evolutionary because anyone who had their full brain would, a, probably not choose to have kids when they knew it was gonna be like that. And B, they'd be like, I'm so tired of holding this screaming thing that keeps waking me up. I'm going to leave it for the coyotes. Yeah, now we all love our babies. No one's really going to do that. But a thinking curses their whole brain.

We can be real with that.

There is a limit. And when your brain is smaller, you're like, okay, I can deal with this. And so, like I said, it's the hyper focus, the waking up all the time. Even if you didn't before, because now, like, the slightest sound, oh, it's the baby. And you're like, how could that wake you up? I want to shift gears a bit from the pregnancy side of things to talk about what happens before pregnancy. Let's talk birth control. What is your take on the pill?

So, you know, what is the pill doing at, like, big level? Like, let's just take, like a big overview. So it's definitely causing leaky gut. So that daily bolus of estrogen, it's inducing leaky gut. It's skewing your microbiome, it's causing estrogen dominance. Hello, your brain, your heart. Nobody's going to be happy about that. It's disrupting thyroid hormone on every level. And so when you think about women in their 30s are five to eight times more likely to be, you know, develop a thyroid condition. And then you compound the pill on top of it. Like, we're. We're really raising risk factors here. We know that it turns on certain autoimmune diseases. So there was actually a study, study several years ago that came out and said if a woman's on the pill, has a family history of Crohn's disease, then, you know, after five years, she has a 300% increased risk of turning on that autoimmunity. Those researchers then said, we should be at least asking about family history, if not genetically testing women before we start them on the pill. And, you know, as. As we all know, okay, that research study was about five years ago. It's going to be 12 years before conventional medicine even acknowledges this. And to me as a woman, you know, when I think about my sister, my mot, my friends, like, I'm not about to stand around for 12 years and allow countless numbers of women to be basically mishandled, mistreated and not to mention dismissed when their symptoms like, you know, depression and anxiety crop up and they're on the pill.

Let's also talk about the post birth control syndrome. So what happens when a woman goes off of the birth control pill? Like what should she expect?

Well, she should expect whatever symptoms she had that made her stop the pill. So ladies, if you had acne, if you had PMS symptoms, if you had heavy periods, lots of cramps, even mood symptoms that were cyclical, we can expect those things to come back full force. And this is how I explain it. It's not your body rebelling against you. If you think about, if you had something really important to say for like five years, 10 years, you know, however long you're on the pill, finally you get the opportunity to say it like your body's screaming, like, I wanted you to know about this all along. So that's one thing that we'll see. We'll also see what's called post pill amenorrhea. Now here's a big one that doctors don't tell women and this one is a huge disservice. So what's the number one non birth control related reason to prescribe the pill? Irregular menstrual cycle. So the doctor tells the story like this. You're not having your period. We can help you have your period naturally by using this pill. No, sorry doctor, you are flooding that woman's brain and overriding her pituitary and then withdrawing that drug so that her endometrium slough shot. They just bails. Endometrium bails. Now we have a period. There's nothing natural about this. But you know, with all of that being said with the PCOS piece, we know that, or excuse me, the irregular periods, we know that can often be due to pcos. And PCOS is a metabolic disorder. So now you put a woman on the pill, you mask the hormone symptoms, and then what do you do? You let her go for like 10 to 20 years with a heart disease and diabetes developing. And nobody's putting that together. But when a doctor prescribes a pill for irregular periods, the research tells us that about 30% of those women will be rendered infertile. When they stop that pill. So we're talking almost 40% of women will never see their pill come back.

All right, so now people have to be asking, okay, if I'm not going to start the pill or I'm going to go off the pill, what is the best, most biologically compatible form of birth control?

Yeah. So I am a huge fan of fertility awareness method. And it's actually like, I use this really cool piece of technology called Daisy. And it's just a thermometer that I put in my mouth, but it's super high tech. So every morning I wake up, I put this in. Green light go, you know, a red light. No, like, we've got all of these color codes and everything. So there's all these technologies. You know, in Sweden now they're like this. So in the US they're still like, no, no, no, that's not birth control in Sweden. They're like, yeah, these, like lady comp, which is what Daisy came from. These, these little technology pieces, they are considered birth control in other countries that, you know, don't have as much of a pharmaceutical interest. I'm guessing with that, the fertility awareness method is.

Is pretty profound because in addition to, if you're a woman, you start, you start tracking this, you realize that there are times of the month, not when you're necessarily ovulating or bleeding or anything like that, where your cognitive and mental performance and your emotions are not going to be where they are. You know the days when you're most powerful. You know the days when you are going to be most aroused. And just knowing that, like, wow, like, I wanted to run a marathon today and it was totally the wrong time and my score sucked or I had a really big board meeting today and I know that I'm completely not where I'm going to be. So I'm seriously taking some modafinil today. Otherwise I'm not going to, like, I'm not going to get the venture funding I wanted. You can, you can account for and you can counteract periods where you're not going to be. See what I just did there? Anyway, periods. Didn't mean to do that. But periods where you're going to be really either at your best or not at your best for what you want to be doing that day. And if you know it's coming and you know that it's normal, then you don't feel like you're weak or crazy and you're like, okay, or maybe I'm just going to have some extra coffee, like, whatever. It's going to take like, it's okay that today I should just get a massage and like chill and I'm going to schedule that if I can. Like that's precious knowledge about just controlling your biology and letting it do what it wants to do. So I value that and to give.

You permission, like I really appreciate that you just gave permission that it's okay if you have an extra cup of coffee today. Like, you know, I have women that the day before they start their period, they're like, I am flatline fatigued. And yeah, sure, we're working on this stuff. Can we just acknowledge for a second that natural therapies take months to. I mean, so Vitex is one for example. Every woman will come in and say, I tried Vitex for like a couple weeks. Eh, it's gotta take a Vitex. So chaste tree berry. It's something that's used, it stimulates the LH production in the brain to help stimulate the ovaries to make progesterone.

Years ago, Geez, almost 20 years ago, I had coffee in Mountain View with the guy who holds the first patent on 802.11 wi fi. The very first WI fi. And this is this kind of grizzled engineer beard, super Silicon Valley engineering type. And he goes, you know, I took the million dollar equipment we used for measuring our WI fi things and I turned it around and I aimed it at myself and oh my God, there's all this data coming off the body. And he turns his laptop around, he goes, look, here's the data that's coming off of my body at least when I was running these signals. And there's diagnostic information in here like this is amazing and like we've known in little pockets for a long time that it's not just about whether we're cooking ourselves or not. And that's why in head Strong, I'm like, here's the evidence that it destroys mitochondrial function. It doesn't kill you, it doesn't cook you. It just makes you able to make and use less power. So let's compare notes. I want you to tell me what you recommend someone do the first 24 hours after they're hit in the head. And I'll tell you what I did the first 24 hours after I got hit in the head. So you go first. What if there was something you could add to your water to make you perform better, have more energy and protect your cells from damage? Hydrogen is the smallest molecule in the universe and the only One that can get deep inside your cells, mitochondria, and even your DNA. It fuels energy production, crushes oxidative stress, and supports sharper brain function. Hydrogen's a gas, so you can't take it as a pill. So you either have to breathe it in or infuse it into your water. But your tap, bottled or filtered water doesn't have it. That's why I use the Echo flask. Echo flask is a hydrogen generator that uses advanced hydrogen electrolysis and a proprietary proton exchange membrane to infuse your water with pure hydrogen. No chemicals, no ph change, just therapeutic science backed hydrogen. I've noticed more energy, faster recovery, less inflammation and mental clarity that lasts all day. Go to ecowater.com dave and use code DAVE.10 for 10% off your Echo flask. You'll feel the difference in days.

Okay, so once brain bleed has been ruled out, we hit the ginkgo, we go high dose fish oil.

It's ruled out by X ray?

Yeah. Or imaging. Yeah. CT or MRI. What's interesting is that they start with MRI, but there's been some studies to show that like 30% of people who repeat with a CT, there's, there's actually, you know, issues in the brain that weren't caught the first time. So to me it's important that we should actually measure people more than once. But so fish oil, I went to 30 grams. I mean I choked down 30 grams as soon as I could. Of course you want to have like a doctor supervising this for me. I'm like, hey, if I start bruising, I want a little bit too high. But if you look at the research like it's, it's not very good in terms of the claims that fish oil will make you bleed out. So there's actually like the evidence isn't so good that that'll happen. So that gpc. So doing the phosphatidylcholine, phosphatidylserine, that, that I definitely got into play right away. Turmeric. Oh my gosh. And then I went keto right away and I'm like, that was so smart. So fasting is definitely like non negotiable. I like would want to see a 24 hour fast, but I really say like give yourself two to three days. I think there's a wisdom that I'm nauseous and about every other week I can't eat for two to three days. I can drink coffee. So drink my bulletproof coffee. Oh my. Your brain octane is gangbusters by the way.

I was like, thank you.

If you're feeling fine and you take that, you don't. You're like, I know. Notice a little bit of difference. If you're not feeling fine, that's really the profound effect. So that was like, once I experienced that of like, I do what's called upgraded golden milk, where I'm doing the, you know, brain octane in that. I'm doing ghee, doing all of that with turmeric. But I definitely am in a fan. You know, coffee is actually going to. So if you're some. So, you know, I came from a nutrition background, and we were like, never, never have coffee on an empty stomach. And keto's bad. I laugh about what I was taught 20 years ago. So coffee, actually, it's interesting because I went through. Now I fast two to three days every couple of weeks, and my body actually craves coffee first thing in the morning.

There's a study that says caffeine in the morning about as much as in two small cups of coffee doubles ketone production. Okay, so you hit ketones, you hit fish oil, and you hit progesterone for your brain injury.

Progesterone, all the amino acids, ginkgo, turmeric, high antioxidants. So I also did HBOT therapy, hyperbaric oxygen therapy. And then I had this whole cocktail of, like, antioxidants and mitochondrial. I use a mitochondrial product, so I was like, big time, like, mitochondrial support, glutathione. I mean, just. I mean, everything for that. And then I would go do that, you know, about an hour and a half, two hours before the hbot, and then I would do it again afterwards. And I did that twice a day for several months. And I also made the goal. And people think I'm crazy for this, but I meditated for about four hours every day, and I really committed to that. All right, so your turn. First 24 hours.

So I took a titanium knee to the head, flying through the air.

Is that a Burning man? Was that JJ's knee?

I'm not really sure whose knee it was. My memory is impaired. And so it was a big arena. Anyway, it was in the Thunderdome at Burning Man.

Okay. So you should probably have expected to walk out with at least a mild concussion. You're in the Thunderdome.

You're using foam bats. It's all good funny. It was actually hilarious. And it was just an accidental thing. And it was within a minute of this. I'm like, okay, I can't handle the blinky bright lights that are all over the place. I'm nauseous. I need to lay down. You guys need to take me back to the rv. Thankfully, we had the art car, which is a giant stick of butter with a cup of coffee spinning around on top. So I'm like laying on the hood of it and they're using it as an ambulance. And I went back and because I was camping with masses of health people, I'm like, everyone give me all of your fish oil. And I didn't know if I was bleeding or not, but I'm like, I don't really care. I'm just gonna do this.

Yeah, you know where you were at? If you had a brain breathe, it.

Was a risk, Right? I Also, I took 10 keto primes, which is the bulletproof thing. And this is a mitochondrial support. Whenever your mitochondria have problems, they run out of this rare ketone. It's different than the ketones that we talked about. They run out of that. So I just took 10 of those. I kept taking them. I don't know how many. I took a lot because I just wanted to have maximum energy sufficiency. Because the first thing that happens in the first 24 to 72 hours is you get this swelling and you get mitochondrial death. And I'm like, you guys don't need to die. So, like, hang out here. I took a lot of brain octane, as much as I could take in the form of bulletproof coffee. I used a metal filter when I brewed the coffee. And the reason is that there's two studies that show coffee oils are anti inflammatory in the brain. That's why I still to this day say, use a metal filter, not a paper filter. If you're drinking coffee that doesn't have mold in it, Snap.

I've got a chemex. I'm like, I gotta get that information from you.

Oh, just get a. Get an able filter. They're ab, I think a B, E, L or a B L E they use. It's a metal filter that fits in your Chemex. It makes better tasting coffee and it gets you the oils from the coffee. Coffee in some people, they raise cholesterol, but they turn off inflammation while raising cholesterol. Oh, you live longer with higher cholesterol than inflammation. And so I did that just to finish that for listeners who are like, what do I do? So ketosis from brain octane oil. Really important because ketones. You listen to the interview with Dr. Veech on Bulletproof Radio. We talk a lot about inflammation and why that's Important. And then I started on progesterone right away, because fortunately, Lana's on progesterone. I'm like, give me some cream, give me some pills. I'm just gonna do this. And let's see. I didn't use testosterone, which I normally use testosterone. I've been really open about that for years. I've gone on and off of it, but I take a biological identical dose so that I just have, like, medium, like, around 70th percentile where I want to be. And so I stopped doing that because that actually is contraindicated with a brain injury like that. And I still was pretty rocked by this. And about three weeks later, I went and I did. I looked at my brain, and I actually, I'll publish this because I have my 24 channel EEG stuff from 40 years of Zen, and I have a Zen brain. Like, I've done four months of intense neurofeedback with personal development where, like, my symmetry is. You look at a map of asymmetry and my brain, there's nothing there because everything is symmetrical and it runs well and it looks like spaghetti. Like, there's all these lines everywhere on a representation of the brain. Because I was no longer symmetrical, I wasn't in synchrony. So it took about two days of really focused feedback to get my brain back to where it had been before. And I think without that, it would have taken many hours of meditation per day. And I'm fortunate. Okay. This isn't what we do at 40 years, and it's a personal development process. But I happen to have neuroscientists who I work with on a regular basis. So we took the clinical grade gear and we used it clinically instead of for personal development. But without that, there were definitely some personality sort of changes. I was more angry. Like, I sent a few angry emails to people where I, like, had perceived that they had offended me or something. Like, there was one guy, another health influencer, who had, like, kind of done something that at the time, I perceived as underhanded. Where it's like, look, I've helped you a lot. Like, why are you trying to throw myself under the bus here? Like, that's not cool.

Yeah.

But so basically, I was much quicker to anger than I normally would be and more likely to be like, you know what? Here's my middle finger.

Yeah.

And I. In my normal. I'm not like that in my normal life. I don't swear. And I swore quite a lot for a little while, and I'm just like, I'M even and I'm kind and I was just a little bit more aggressive.

Oh, totally.

Certainly my kids and wife knows that.

Yeah. Inflammation on the brain does that.

Yeah. The other thing though, that I think is really important is noise canceling headphones. I use those a lot, just the first couple days, just to allow the noise in the brain to come down. And this is. I showed those glasses earlier in the interview, the truedark glasses. Like they're noise canceling headphones for your eyes, basically. And that was ridiculous. Like, what happens when you, instead of using blue blockers, you use like the full on like dark block? Everything that affects mitochondria. The mitochondria talk to each other with light. When you block all the light, all the spectrum of light that interferes with their ability to talk via light, I think that there's really good use for that. And during brain recovery, they'll use different colored lenses. So I'm like, hey, I'm just going to try this. And certainly I felt calmer because it was like I was in a dark room, even though I wasn't. So that seemed to matter for me.

Yeah, well. And that was. I mean, I had to just walk around with amber glasses, like all the time. And then definitely in a dark room or in the dark HBOt like as often as possible for those reasons, you know, something you brought up. So in the first 24 hours, inflammation goes up in the brain. We also develop leaky gut. And we actually see in the animal studies, so because they can't dissect humans, that when there is brain trauma, that not only is there intestinal hyperpermeability, but you also start breaking off cells. So the microvilli start just sloughing off. So your gut is like giving up. Yes. And so you cannot like just L glutamine your way out of that. Plus L glutamine can be a little too excitatory around the brain. Yeah.

You shouldn't take L glutamine right after brain injury.

Yeah. Not advised. But it's something that it's, you know, it's really important. If we sit back and we. And I'm doing a lot of reframe since this has happened of like, like people who are not recovering their gut. So like I treat a lot of small intestinal bacterial overgrowth. I'm always doing vagal nerve stimulation with these people because the crux of this is that we've got a nervous system dysregulation. Like there's issues with how the gut's actually Moving the bacteria in the wrong place. We've got to corral them, put them in the right place and kill some of them. But, you know, all things being said, there's a motility issue there. So it's really getting me a reframe and asking people like, have you been hit in the head? Even, even mildly, and looking at if you don't heal your brain, if you're not actively healing your brain after that, then we can't expect that your gut can be healed. And what's really interesting is that you're so, you know, you got to wear the glasses, you've got to wear the noise canceling, definitely. I couldn't listen to music for four months because you don't even realize what's going on in the background. As babies, we are developing just how to put everything on autopilot. Like, you are just processing so much stuff. But if you don't actively heal that brain, your brain actually loses the ability to know where your gut is in space. So your brain won't even know how to communicate to your gut correctly because it's not sure where it's at. So, you know, I just want to add in that piece because, I mean, this is another way where keto can help so much because, you know, you are delivering, you know, the high fat that's going to help the brain. It's going to help inflammation. It's what, you know, the bacteria in your small intestine would prefer instead of like high boluses or carbohydrates. But there's a lot of things to heal the brain that if you, you have to do those, if you're going to heal your gut, it's not going to be, you know, just L glutamine and doing, you know, autoimmune paleo diet or something like that. No, there's neurological component to all of this.

I also pounded like 10 unfair advantages a day. It's another mitochondrial stimulant. It's an activated form of highly absorbable PQQ, bound to Coq 10. And so I feel that normally I take, I'm like, whoa, things are working again. So I took a lot of that on a daily basis, but right after the injury, I'm just opening ampules and swallowing as many as I had on me. Then I used facial ice baths or cryotherapy for the vagal nerve thing. And I used a cold laser on my head over the side of the injury, which is incredibly powerful to do that. So those are things like, oh, and hyperbaric I also have my own hyperbaric chamber. You're at bulletproof labs, which is convenient. So I'm like, oh, I'll get home and hop in.

Hyperbaric.

So, yeah, you and I are unusual because you're in functional medicine, because I'm a biohacker. But if you're as bad as you were, where you can't talk and all that stuff, you want the stuff that JJ has written about, stuff that you've written about and things like that, and just anything on earth that will support your mitochondria. And I think ketosis is well supported. I also would say, and this will annoy people. If using brain octane, you can get some ketones, it automatically converts. It's exogenous ketones. There is an argument for a small amount of sugar after the brain injury. Just because you want to get the energy in the mitochondria, they're dying, literally dying for energy. I don't have any problem with having ketones and sugar at the same time. Post brain injury. I'm not saying drink a coke. I'm saying a little bit of sugar could go a long way just towards keeping you from getting hypoglycemia, which is not a good thing at the time. Awesome. Well, we are on a pretty long episode of Bulletproof Radio here, which is cool because we're talking about basically three different topics, like, what about mommy brain, what about birth control, and what about hitting yourself in the head? But we fit it all in. But you haven't answered the final question.

Ooh, the final question for a bulletproof.

Radio, which is if someone came to you tomorrow, and based on everything you've lived through and been through and done and all that. So not just your medical stuff. If someone came and said, look, I want to perform better at everything I do, better at being a human being, what are the three most important pieces of advice you have for me? What would you tell them?

Oh, my gosh. So definitely, if you want to be a better human being, then you need to be very present. You need to practice mindfulness. And when things get uncomfortable, you need to explore that, go deep down and understand why. I think that would be my very first thing. All animals want to avoid pain, but as humans, we have pills now, and I think we've over medicated an entire society from being able to, like, have their wherewithal about that. So I think if you want to be a better person, you first need to get a really clean mirror and start taking a look at all of that. I Definitely think you've got to love your microbiome because like, you were, you know, you were introducing. If you don't have the right gut bacteria, I mean, we've known for a long time not only can gut bacteria influence your mood, but there's viruses that can get into your brain and they can control your mood.

They.

So if you're not taking care of your microbiome and your inflammation, forget it. And the third thing is, I would say you can't go wrong. I mean, everything we talked about, you can't go wrong with loving your mitochondria. Right? Because if you've got the energy to show up, so if you've got energy at the cellular level, then you've got the energy to show up as a whole person and fully yourself every single day and to do that big work, like whatever you were put here for and what you're doing to take care of your mitochondria and just so happens to be all of the things that send the body that the signals safe. So back full circle to what we were talking about. If the body feels safe now we can do that higher level work. Now we can start to transcend into the mind, body aspect and even the spiritual aspect. And right back to, is this mine? Is this someone else's? Do I need to heal my family lineage? That would be my three. Those would be my three big ones.

Beautiful. Well, thanks, Dr. Jolene Brighton. Where can people find out more info about you?

Yeah, you can find me@doctorbrighton.com that's D R B R I G H T E N. So a little tricky like Brighton, like the sun. If you are listening to this and you're like, I need help with post birth control syndrome right away, go to my website. I got you there. We'll get you into a detox. If you feel better from that, you might not need a doctor. If you don't, that information is really helpful to take to a doctor as well. And then of course, I'm on Facebook. You can always catch me there.

Beautiful. Well, thanks, Jolene. It's always a pleasure to get a chance to chat and I'm sure we'll chat again soon at one of JJ's events. Have a beautiful day.

You too. Thank you again.

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