You Control Your Own Karma – Sadhguru : 873

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You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. And today's guest is Sad Guru, who.

Is.

A mystic, a yogi, visionary, spiritual master who's reached a huge number of people around the Globe. Just only 27 million in social media alone. And 30 years ago, he founded the Isha foundation, which has made him one of the 50 most influential people in India and has transformed countless lives. He's on the show today to talk about karma, which you might think isn't something having to do with biohacking and human performance. But I think you'll find that the yogic mysteries are a part of this and that that is something that is going to be very educational for you on the show today. Sadhguru, welcome.

Thank you, Dave. Morning to you and your audience.

We have the Upgrade collective in our live studio audience with us today, which is going to be great. There may be time for questions from the audience at the end. In the meantime, I would really, really like to know something that's been bothering me for a while. I believe that consciousness emerges inside ourselves, each one of them, and eventually it comes up into our brain. There may be more to it than that, but you wrote some things in your book about karma and how karma is inside the cells and moves up. So where does consciousness start? Does it start inside our cells and eventually make it to our brains, or does it start in our brains and eventually make us to Ourselves. I'm so confused.

Well, it is in the womb of this consciousness that all of us, all life, these planets, these stars and everything exists. So consciousness is not something. It is the basis of everything. So it doesn't start anywhere. It has something which is not physical in nature. So that which is not in physical in nature cannot start or end somewhere. So it has neither beginning nor end. So consciousness, or what we are referring to as consciousness, is that which is the source of life itself. So does it start in my cells? Well, it starts everywhere at once. It doesn't start in one place and go to another place. It is not a physical thing to move because only physical things have need to move, because physical things have distances to travel. Consciousness has no such thing to travel. We exist in consciousness. Whether we allow it or we will overwhelm it with our own thoughts and emotions, or we will allow it to happen to us is only the question when it comes to human beings.

One of the things that's interesting about your path is that you call yourself or you've named yourself Sadhguru, which means uneducated Guru. Can you explain that to me? Oh, you've named yourself Sadhguru, which means uneducated Guru. Can you explain that to me when.

I say uneducated Guru? See, the moment you're born, from the time you're born, your parents are trying to educate you. Every adult around you is trying to educate you. Teachers are trying to educate you, priests and pundits are trying to educate you. Just about everybody is trying to teach you something that's not worked in their life. So to. To remain uneducated is not easy. Education is not so ardorous. You can pick up something and call yourself educated. But to remain uneducated, to remain untouched by all these influences around you, your parentage, your family, your society, your religions, your social and national atmospheres, not to be influenced by anything and just to remain as you were, that is being totally uneducated. In that sense, I am fully uneducated. I just remain as I am.

How did you pull that off? Did you arrive after multiple lifetimes and have special skills or how did you remain uneducated?

Definitely it takes some striving and certain amount of daily bath, you know, daily baths, not just water baths. You need to wash yourself clean with everything that stuck to you on that day from morning to evening. So many impressions are sticking to you every day. Cleaning yourself up so that you're once again as you started. So that takes some work, but it is doable. Everybody can do this being like this essentially means that you don't become a personality. You don't become this or that. You just remain as life, which is what is intended, actually. You are supposed to be here as life, but you become too much of a man or too much of a woman, too much of an American, too much of an Indian, too much of this or that. All kinds of things. In all this, you fundamentally forget you are alive and the life sense is gone. And though you are alive, people are walking around like they are half dead. It looks like when I look at the expressions on most people's faces on the streets, not in any one place, just about anywhere. It looks like they are practicing for their last pose, how they should look when they are in their undertaker's place. But I wish to tell them that will come naturally. You don't have to practice it all your life anyway. That stiff face will come as a natural consequence of death. This is the time to be alive, because this is about life. This is not a mission. This is not something that you believe or disbelieve. This is not about heaven. This is not about hell. This is about life. Because life is the greatest phenomena that's happening here. Do you want to know it? Do you want to experience it in as profound a manner as you can, or do you want to philosophize about it, you want to create ideologies and belief systems about it, or do you want to experience it? If you wish to experience it, you must remain as life, not become identified as something or the other. So in that sense, education means just this, a constant process of identifying yourself with newer and newer things or more and more things that at the end of the game, you don't know who the hell you are. You are a heap of things.

So I'm guessing you don't spend a lot of time on Instagram.

No, others spend a lot of time on my Instagram, but I don't.

Well said.

I love that.

Tell me about the COVID of Karma, your new book. It's got interesting art on it, and I was trying to figure it out. Why did you pick the imagery specifically that's on the COVID of the book?

This imagery is actually in one of our meditation halls here in Yoga center in India. Isha Yoga center in Southern India. We have a very large mural right across the hall. And some people say this is the largest mural in the world. I don't know about that. But anyway, it's a large mural. This mural is made with, you know, with vegetable dyes and natural pains. And this is depicting the journey of a yogi. When I say journey of a yogi, the entire yogic system evolves out of a fundamental process called bhuta shuddhi. This means the five elements in nature, Earth, water, fire, air and space. These five elements are the basis of life. This is how the yogic signs looks at the life and creation. These five elements play in everything from a single atom, to a human being, to the whole planet and to the cosmos. These five elements, we say this is an elemental mischief. With five such a massive complexity of creation has been made. So the most important aspect of yoga is to cleanse these five elements in the system, in our own system, and then to have mastery over these five elements. Having mastery over these five elements means you have mastery over your body, your mind, and even the situations around you in a way that other people will think is miraculous. There's nothing miraculous about it. Right now you're in Vancouver, I'm in southern India. We are talking to each other. If we had done this hundred years ago, we could have claimed this is a miracle. You could have claimed you are God himself. And I'm sure in Canada they would have believed it at that time. You just got, you got the technology a bit late. If you got it hundred years ago, before anybody else got it, you could have claimed whatever you wanted. So similarly, having a little mastery over your five elements gives you certain capabilities. So yoga starts from there. Because of cleansing these five elements, this, this sense of individuality can be dissolved, the walls of individuality can be dissolved and you experience a union. In fact, the word yoga means a union that as you sit here, you're breathing, you're one with the atmosphere, but you don't experience that. If you experience the atmosphere itself as your larger lungs, then this is yoga. Not intellectually, but experientially. As you experience the five fingers of your hand as yourself, you experience the entire cosmos as yourself. This is yoga. So in this direction, cleansing of the elements is most important and having little mastery over that. So what you see in the Karma book is where a yogi is striving to master the air or the moving aspect of the existence. So here he is hanging upside down from a tree that is supposed to depict breeze or wind and essentially air. We see air or vayu as movement. Everything that moves is vayu.

So you're capturing all five of the elements there. That, that's wonderful. It as a Westerner, I look at all of these different paths I could walk down and five elements is common in Many of the different teachings out of India. And there's also a whole set of Chinese knowledge around five elements, acupuncture and things like that. And you go to South America, there's more. How is a Westerner who maybe is over educated and wants to be uneducated, how do we go about picking the right lineage for us? How do you know I want to spend 5 or 10 or 50 years studying Sadhguru's work versus all of the other things that are out there?

Now you're making me a very inefficient teacher that you think I'll take 50 years to get you. I just need a few weeks to turn you around. I don't need 50 years.

Those are the words of a master. I very much appreciate that answer. Okay, few weeks.

So the thing is, five elements is not from the east or West. So the thing is, five elements is not from the east or West. Anyway, Vancouver is almost East. All right? If you go little further, you're in Asia. So this idea that this, let's say, fundamentals of our existence come from any part of geography is a wrong idea. This is not an Eastern idea or a Western idea. This is the basis of our life. Our body is just the soil and water that we. But we see everywhere. The soil that you walk upon and the water that you consume or don't. That's what this body is about. So the very. So the very body that we have is the soil that we walk upon. This is not an Eastern idea. This is a reality. Whether it was real realized by people in the east or west, that is a question of chance and cultural, you know, orientations. But I feel everywhere people realize this in different capacities. But in Western cultures there is a, a culture of dogmatism which leads to persecution. If somebody said something that they realized normally they got killed. In the east, when somebody said something totally crazy that nobody understood, they were valued and everybody tried to understand, everybody listened to them. There was no such thing as persecution because there were no dogmatic belief systems as such. Life is seen as a search. Life is seen as a seeking for something beyond. In that fundamental attitude, people always listen to new things that are being told by different sages and saints who came across. But in the west, normally they got killed. West means we call, what you call as Middle East. We call, as you know, West Asia. In India, we always refer to Middle east as West Asia. From there on, the west started. From there on, the persecution also started. Anything new that is sad, which is not in the current belief system. Or of the society. Normally they got killed probably. Now in 21st century, much more relaxation of that is happening in the West. And definitely it is time to look at life for what it is. Not to believe whatever we please or whatever we been taught to believe. It's time. Because scientific approach to life means just this. We seek what is not in our perception right now. We seek to touch dimensions which are not yet in our life. This is what leads to looking at these things. So five elements is not made up by the east or West. It is the basis of our existence anyway.

Well, I can be a little bit more blunt with you because I know you're comfortable with any kind of question. If you and Sri Sri Ravi Shankar were arm wrestling, who would win?

I don't muscle with anybody like that. So.

You'Re both kind gurus, right? And you have some.

I'm not very kind. I'm pretty rough.

You're very straightforward, but it's not with a mean intent behind it. At least if your book on karma is accurate, your intent is good. Even if you're direct, true statement.

No, the intent is to make people understand. The intent is not to be nice to them. Because being nice at the cost of somebody's life is not good. The most important thing is human beings should rise to the highest possible thing that they can be in their lives. That is most important because it's a brief life. There is no time for namby pamby stuff. Saying sweet things to each other forever. You are special. I am special. You are wonderful. I am wonderful. Yes, it is all true. But that is not the point. The point is from where you are, can you rise to a higher level of elevation? This is the important thing. So my concern is that. That people should not go, should not be done with this life without seeing all dimensions of who they are, what their existence is, how profound their life can be without that. They should not leave this.

Can you become fully enlightened in one lifetime?

You think I'm wasting my life doing something that doesn't work? Do I look like somebody will invest my life in something that doesn't work? It works. That's why I'm here.

So people who practice your teachings, you regularly see this or people are getting fully in line. That's a very powerful statement.

People are bursting into different levels of ecstasy. Different levels of profoundness, different levels of perception. Always happening in a few weeks. Yes, few weeks at a time.

Few weeks at a time. That is beautiful. And in your book, which is really profound, your book on karma, you Talk about how intent behind inaction is very important for karma. Can you walk into the difference between intent versus outcome? And then I have a few specific examples where I'd like to go deeper on understanding Karma and teaching that to our listeners.

Let us handle the three aspect. Intent, content, and outcome. See, outcome is a consequence of many things, not just what you do. If you exert a certain amount of force upon something, depending on what that is, sometimes it will move to a higher place, sometimes it'll break, sometimes it'll fall down. Many things. Outcome is a consequence of many factors. Not entirely yours, but intent is 100% yours. The content of our activity, again, is not fully ours because in a given situation there could be 10 different forces or hundred different forces in that you are also exerting your force to see whatever. So the only thing that you have control over is your intent. The content and the outcome is never hundred percent in your hands. To some extent it is in our hands. We aspire to make it happen the way we want. But actually, in reality, only our intent is is in our control. Rest is not really in our control.

But does it affect your karma? If your intent is good, but you do great evil, which side of that is the karmic impact?

See if your intent is inclusive when I say intent is good. People have done terrible things with good intention because of wrong identifications. Now, in the name of being two different nations, we have done terrible things to each other. In terms of being two different races, we have done terrible things to each other. In terms of being two different religions, we have done terrible things to each other. In terms of being two individuals, we have done terrible things to each other. All right, so in this, somebody is fighting for his nation or his race or religion. He thinks he is doing a great thing, but he is doing terrible things. So this is why the most important thing is, before you do any action in the world, before you even generate a thought in your mind, the most important thing is to set your identity. In the yogic culture, this is the most important thing, that you must set your identity first, because your identity is what is determining the nature of your thought and your emotion. See, right now, for example, let's say you belong to a certain country. Your flag flutters, tears will come in your eyes. It's just a piece of cloth. All right.

I love what you're saying.

Keep going. So you're willing to live and die for that piece of cloth. This is because you're identified with that. If you're identified with another piece of Cloth, you would be willing to do the same thing with that. So identity rules our mind and emotion, thought and emotion is entirely deci decided by what we are identified with it. Nationality, race, religion, caste, creed, you know, all kinds of things and individuality. So the most important thing is to set a cosmic identity to yourself. That first of all you have an inclusive identity. That smaller identities that you have are just to play the game, but essentially you have a cosmic identity. We say this before we start a child on education in India. For, you know, for millennia we have done this. We always taught them, aham brahmasmi. This means my identity is with the cosmos, not with my parentage, not with my family, not with my caste or creed or religion. But my identity is with the very cosmos we. I do not know where my identity begins, where it ends. All I can see is it's an endless possibility. Once you set your identity in an inclusive nature, your intent will evolve in a certain way. With that intent, the chances of you causing harm is only accidental in nature. Now let's say a surgeon is trying to fix a patient with the best intent. But it could so happen that the knife slipped and he could kill the patient. It's happened any number of times, but the intent is clear. He was only trying to save the life. But maybe it went wrong for whatever reasons. So it is the only thing that is in our control is our intent. We should bring this into our hands because in our lives, if we do not do what we cannot do, there is no issue. But if we do not do what we can do, we are a disaster. So to avoid this disaster, the best thing is you have an inclusive identity and you fix your intent. Who knows how effective our actions will be? Who knows whether the world will allow our actions to be successful or not? Because our actions, how they, how successful they are, is a consequence of time. It is not all about ourselves. Whatever we are doing today. If you and me were here a thousand years ago on this planet, would you and me doing podcast with each other? I'm saying this, this activity is a consequence of the times in which we exist. We should not aggrandize our actions too much because most of the things that we are doing is a consequence of the times in which we exist. That is for many generations of people, the foundations that they have created upon that we are doing a little drama.

People definitely have karma, but do all, all people have karma? Are there people who have gone beyond karma?

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Are there people who have gone beyond karma?

See, if there is no karma, there is no way. Karma is the glue which sticks you to your body. If there is no karma, you cannot be with your physical self. Karma is not a bad thing as people thinking it is. Karma is just a body of content. Or let's say it's your memory. Whether you suffer your memory or you enjoy your memory. Whether you use your memory in a positive productive way or do you allow it to overwhelm you and create negativity within you is a question of choice. This is why intent is important. That if you fix the intent, whatever kind of karma you have, you can use it. Suppose let us say you have a criminal background. I'm not saying this to you, Dave.

I'm just saying no one knows.

It's okay if you have a criminal background. Suddenly if your intent see you, somebody becomes a criminal simply because he is thinking about his well being versus others well being. All right, you call somebody a criminal, not because he does something different. See, an ordinary, like a law abiding citizen is trying to earn money. He works for 30 days of the month and gets his money. The man whom you call as a criminal is far more vigorously seeking his happiness than an ordinary person. So he grabs that 30 days of money in one, in two minutes and runs away. So you call him a criminal. He also wants money. You also want money. Why does he become a criminal? Simply because he is. His intent is such that what happens to you is not his concern. He wants what he wants. So essentially it is an exclusive intent. That's all it is that makes you a criminal. So the more exclusive you become, knowingly or unknowingly, the more criminal you're becoming. Criminality is not just a question of law in a nation. It is how much you have turned against other lives. This has happened in a massive scale with modern societies. We have turned against every life on this planet. In the last 50 years, 66% of vertebrate population has disappeared. 80% of the biomass insects are gone in the last 30 years. Now it is coming home to us because it's affecting our lives. But this is simply because our identities became more and more individualistic. And our intent, though we may think we are doing the good thing, we are doing the bad things, on the whole, we are committing a heinous crime against all life in, in a belief that we are doing good things simply because our identity became very small.

Self deception is, is a major issue. I've seen this in people that I've hired in my companies where they will tell themselves I can't fail, so they can't see themselves fail, and all of a sudden they'll steer some part of what I'm doing off a cliff.

No, jumping off a cliff is a successful leap because it ends all problems.

Okay, fair point. But not if they're taking me with them and all the other people who I support.

That is the only problem. There are a lot of people who want to go to heaven, but they want to take you with them. That is the whole problem.

How do we help people who are in a state of self deception realize that they're doing that?

You just have to send them to me. I know how to knock them on their head, being very nice to them.

All right, so send them straight to Isha and then they'll be all set. Okay, I'm going to be sending you a lot of people. How do I know if I am deceiving myself?

The simple litmus test is this. Is your peacefulness and joyfulness dependent on something or it is just by its own nature? This is a litmus test for you, because if it is dependent on something, this means that your identities are in a place where you cannot be inclusive. You may think you are inclusive, but it will not work if you're inclusive. One thing that happens is your Joyfulness, your peacefulness, your ability to be loving is entirely upon yourself. It does not depend on anybody or anything. This one thing. If you ensure, then the chances of you deceiving yourself are extremely low. Beyond that, because of some pathological or deep rooted karmics structures, if one is going through that process, that can be handled in a different way, but that percentage is minimal. The large percentage is essentially because they're deeply identified with their race, religion, caste, creed, gender, all kinds of things. Because of that they become prejudiced and self deceptive.

I'm wondering if, if companies, maybe pharmaceutical companies, have karma.

Company has no karma. But people have. There is no company, there are just people. Somebody calls himself a company, somebody calls himself a country, somebody calls himself a community. It's a bunch of people. So individual people have.

So same with countries. So a country that's been around for 500 years, which is always. There's always people joining a country being born and people leaving a country either expatriating or dying. But the country itself doesn't accumulate a karmic burden or a karmic debt or anything like that.

See, karma is a consequence of life process. Country is just an idea. It doesn't exist anywhere except in the human mind. So karma works only in life, not in concepts and ideas.

Have you seen the movie the Matrix?

I don't think so.

There's a famous scene, okay, where the main character, Neo, achieves Hollywood enlightenment and suddenly when he looks at the world, instead of seeing people walking around and cars and walls, he sees ones and zeros. He sees the code underlying reality. When you look at the world from the Sadhguru perspective, do you see the same world that everyone sees or do you see a person and around them there's, you know, arrows and lines saying bad karma, good karma, suffering, not suffering. How do you see the world?

When I see people, if I have work to do with them, if I see people just casually, I see them as people. If I have work to do, I definitely see them as bags of karma. So some bags are paper bags. You can lift it with your little finger. Some are potato sacks. You have to haul them in a certain way. So the content of what they are is different from what they seem to be on the surface most of the time. And above all, when you see the world as such, if I tell you what I see, you will burst out of your skin in laughter. So let's not do that to you right now, okay? I'm quite curious, but people are asking me, sadhguru, whatever kind of situation you face. Why are you laughing like this? Doesn't it affect you? So many serious situations around you? I say if I see what you see, you will also burst out in laughter. The problem is you are seeing the skin of life.

The skin of life. I like that. It feels like there's a lot of suffering in the world right now, maybe more than there was a couple years ago. There's a lot of loneliness, a lot of financial distress. And you've just talked about equanimity, about saying you can be happy regardless of what's going on. But it feels to me like the net happiness quotient might have dropped a little bit in the last couple years globally. What's your take on that?

See, it's unfortunate some 4 to 5 million people have lost their lives and many people have lost dear ones in their life. But the rest of it is only loss of lifestyle. Don't crib so much about your lifestyle. Lifestyle is just of the times. If you were here hundred years ago, what would be your lifestyle today? What is your lifestyle? It is a question of consequence, of times. Don't make too much out of it. For those of us who are alive, who didn't, who did not become part of those 5, 6 million people who died, you shouldn't complain about anything because you're alive. Because that's all life is about. Life is about life, not about lifestyle. Lifestyle is just something that we do. But anyway, our lifestyles have become so destructive anyway it would end in a disaster. The kind of lifestyle that we are developing in the sense right now, living Earth statistics says that if every citizen on the planet, nearly 8 billion people must have what an average American citizen has, it will take four and a half planets. But we want, we have, we don't have four and a half planets. We only have half a planet. Half, we have eaten it up. So anyway, our lifestyle is lot sustainable. So this is a good time to really look at this. What does lifestyle mean to us and how we can make our lifestyles truly sustainable and truly sensible? Instead of calling it sustainable, I would say sensible because right now we are learning the world in such a way. There is an Indian parable. It is about a man who is sitting on the wrong side of the branch and hacking at the branch. When he succeeds, he will fall. This is the kind of economy, this is the kind of world we are running. When we succeed, we will fall. So viruses given us a breather to look at life fresh rather than seeing how to get it back to the old normal. We Must see how to get it to a new sensible equation in which all of us can exist.

If that identity that we have is what's causing us to make poor karmic choices that would include killing 80% of insects on the planet with chemicals and things like that, all of the harmful things we're doing to the planet, what is the fastest way for the world to have an identity that is more inclusive?

I think if we, for example, in our schools, instead of singing too much national anthem, if we sing a global anthem, it would do wonders for the next generation. It's not just about a song. It is just about the identity that if you can't think of a cosmic identity, at least a global identity we must nurture in the generations to come. Because the previous generation and our generation may be too deeply invested in these divisions. This cake cutting of the planet in the name of nations is a silly idea. This has happened simply because the economic disparity that's happened. This economic disparity happened simply because of two centuries of imperialism where everything that was there, everything in the world was stolen and brought to one or two cultures. And from there things evolved. And suddenly this disparity is so much that we have to wall our countries from others. But economic equality, if reasonably it comes, we can definitely down the borders. It's. It may sound like an utopian idea, but I want people to look at Europe. Just 75, 80 years ago, they fought bitterly. Did anybody think France and Germany could be in one union? Italy and Germany could be in one union, but they had the wisdom to drop that nonsense and make it a European Union? Unfortunately, now the UK has come out of it. But actually this is a phenomenal thing in a way. This is a display of human consciousness. It's not just a union of political identities. There is a certain consciousness attached to it because people looked. Because that generation who fought World War II, many of them are still alive. When they're alive, this happened. This is a fantastic example. I think we should at least unite the continents. When we unite the continents, we should disarm them. Otherwise, continental instead of national wars, continental wars may happen. So disarming at a steady rate, disarming all the nations and. And unifying them in terms of economic parity with each other would definitely bring a better world. Better distribution of investments, better distribution of every. All resources would definitely bring more humanity. Well, that may. People may think this is a dream idea, but only if we work on a dream, it becomes a reality.

What is the karmic burden of censorship right now there are certain things that cannot be discussed online or offline. We have cancel culture where you're saying if someone else's reality and your reality aren't the same, one of them will be shamed and publicly pilloried, for lack of a better word.

Unfortunately, all sorts of people functioning on the social media, they have become, they have developed some absolutism. Something is right, something is wrong, something is black, something is white. This is it. That is not it. I think this is going back to caveman's, you know, going back in civilization. The most important thing is we are different kinds of people of many kinds of colors, hues, and, you know, various things. It's important that we understand it takes all kinds of creatures to make this planet. At least we understand. We thought we don't need insects, we can just wipe them out. Now we are understanding without insects, we cannot live. Without worms, we cannot live. Without bacteria, we cannot live. At least it's coming home. So we need to understand it takes every kind of life to make this world. It's very important that there is no sense of absolutism. Life is not about absolutism. For this essential shift that needs to happen is we must move from belief systems to seeking. If seeking has to happen. The fundamental quality in you is you have paid attention to life enough to realize that you don't really know anything as such. If you pay sufficient attention attention to life, you will realize you don't know a damn thing about anything. When you see I do not know, I do not know is a tremendous possibility in that there is possibility of realization, there is possibility of knowing. If we assume everything that we believe is hundred percent, then it's a disaster. Because the conflict in the world is not between good and bad. The conflict in the world is not is always about my belief versus your belief. Why do we believe? Simply because we are not even sincere enough to admit we do not know.

It makes a lot of sense. And I like to learn from people who believe things other than I do. So I believe that they should be allowed to speak about it. When you talk about a solution to the problem being a government in the world, so we have less wars, 100% aligned. How do we make sure that the people running such a government are benevolent and will allow people to be wrong and to continue learning. I'm seeing problems even with the size of governments we have today.

Oh, that is why a democracy so that you can change them every four years or five years. We are not exercising that responsibility properly for that we are paying a price.

We have time for one more question and I appreciate you taking your taking your time today. How does a guru stop spiritual ego? The look, I'm a big guru from taking over because you don't appear to have done that and it's a known phenomenon. How do you protect yourself from thinking you're bigger than you are?

I have no such issues because I don't think much of myself, so I don't have such issues. I am not. I am not somebody who is out to change this world. I am on a mission. I am doing this and that. No, I am alive. So I am just fooling around with whatever I think is good to do right now. That's about it.

That is beautiful. Sadhguru. Thank you for your new book, Karma. Thank you for your work in the world. I appreciate you.

Thank you Namaskaram. Dave, all the best to you.

You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey.

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