You Have A 25% Chance to Lose All Your Memory (Longevity Secrets) : 1319

If your light environment isn't dialed in, your biology isn't either. And if you're not using light as a performance tool, you're leaving results on the table every single day. The right light wavelengths unlock recovery energy and clarity in ways most people never tap into. EMR Tech's Krypton UV line puts that power in your hands. With red near infrared, uva and UVB all in one system. They have something for everyone. From the compact Krypton Micro and Mini to the modular 606 watt and 1612 watt. Each device lets you choose your wavelengths, your timers, and how deep you want to go with your setup. I personally use the Ultron. It's a beast. Full body coverage, built in timers, and high output light from premium components. Whether you're syncing your circadian rhythm or designing a pro level light environment, Emrtech lets you scale it your way with precise control. Go to emr-tek.com Dave and use code Dave for 40% off.

The US spends over $300 billion per year on Alzheimer's disease. If we do nothing, 45 million of the currently living Americans will die of Alzheimer's. You could find a 20 year old and know that this person is already beginning to go down the biochemical path that will ultimately have a diagnosis of Alzheimer's. Dr. Dale Bredesen is a leading neurologist and pioneering Alzheimer's researcher whose groundbreaking work is changing the way we prevent and reverse cognitive decline. He's not just treating memory loss, he's rewriting the future of brain health.

That explains why there are people who push back against you. Because if you could take someone in their twenties and stop them from getting Alzheimer's, think of the profit loss for the pharmaceutical industry. There was a drug in the last few years for Alzheimer's approved by the FDA that in studies didn't help Alzheimer's, but they just felt we needed to say we had a drug for it. Tell me about that. You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. Hey guys, quick reminder. If you're listening to this on your favorite audio podcast app and you haven't been over to my YouTube channel, check it out. Just search for the Human Upgrade or find me under Dave Asprey bpr. I post full video versions of every episode and a bunch of other cool content outside the pod. It's a great way to go deeper into the content and connect with other biohackers like you. So leave a comment for me. Yeah, I'm actually going to read them and poke around while you're there. There is a lot of stuff specifically for you. It really helps, and it means a lot to me. The topic of this episode is near and dear to me. My grandmother was a Ph.D. nuclear engineer, and she didn't get Alzheimer's till late in life. But when she was a hundred, if I gave her stuff that activated mitochondria gave her, some things that increased ketones, the other things that we know help with Alzheimer's, she would talk about, you know, capturing particles in wax long, long ago in the nuclear energy program. And if I didn't give this to her, she would watch infomercials. And the difference was profound. And I've seen so many people get Alzheimer's and so many people with family members who have it. And I even wrote a New York Times bestselling book once about cognitive enhancement. And most of the research there came from Alzheimer's research, because understanding what makes brains weak also teaches us what makes brains strong. And then I had a guest on the show, and it blew my mind, because I've been saying for years, you can avoid Alzheimer's. It's part of longevity. And this is the first very well credentialed doctor, researcher, neurologist, who straight up said, you can cure Alzheimer's disease, who unpacked the code and said, there's multiple types, and here's the cause. And now, almost a decade later, he's got the data to prove that what he said was true. Third time on the show, my friend, Dr. Dale Bredesen, top Alzheimer's expert in the world. Welcome.

Thanks so much, Dave. Always great to talk to you. And you brought up something really important, which is that we tend to think of Alzheimer's as a disease and normal cognition as something that's unrelated. And in fact, these two are intimately related, just as you pointed out. So when you are doing the things that. That help people who are developing Alzheimer's, whether they are far along, whether they're early in the course, you're actually those same things help us have better cognition. You mentioned, for example, ketones, mitochondrial support, things like that.

Wow.

So these are intimately related.

So good. And what that means is that when we study brain illness, we're studying brain performance.

Absolutely. Performance is the key.

After all this time, working with many, many different Alzheimer's patients and doing core clinical research. Is Alzheimer's optional today?

Absolutely. And I know that people keep pushing back and saying, you know, how can you say that? Well, because we understand the earlier and earlier stages now.

Wow.

So the reality Is if we do nothing, 45 million of the currently living Americans will die of Alzheimer's. So it dwarfs the pandemic where we have over 1 million. But if people would start early because there are, as you know, there are four stages and we've talked about these before, you don't get Alzheimer's overnight. You go from a pre symptomatic stage. So you can pick up in the 20s. And by the way, there have been some publications in the last year, year and a half showing people in their 20s you can already pick up changes. Really surprising.

So you could find a 20 year old and know they're going to get Alzheimer's if you don't do something?

Yes, you could find a 20 year old and know that this person is already begin to go down the biochemical path that will ultimately have a diagnosis of Alzheimer's, typically in their 50s, 60s, 70s, that sort of thing. So the disease that we used to think of as old timers disease that people get in their 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s is really a disease that gets diagnosed years later, but that can start in your 20s.

That explains why there are people who push back against you. Because if you could take someone in their twenties and stop them from getting Alzheimer's, think of the profit loss for the pharmaceutical industry.

Huge.

Wow.

Many, many billions.

Well, I think that we should tell the pharmaceutical industry to stick to what they're supposed to do, which is make drugs at an affordable cost with truth behind them and get out of all the other stuff they're doing. Because drugs can be so powerful. But when they're manipulating researchers and trying to suppress what people are talking about so that they can keep people sick, that's when we have racketeering behavior and it's blatantly illegal. So I'm continuously impressed when you. And when people in similar situations as you are just not. We're just going to have the data. And you put out so much data and you're just relentless about it. Dr. Amen is another example where you say this is a thing and no matter how many dollars you spend on advertising, you cannot cancel reality.

Exactly.

So thank you for being relentless about it. There was a piece in the New York Times that was not complimentary and I know you personally and I've followed your research for a decade, wrote a major book on the field. What you are saying is real and I would put my entire reputation on that. You might have a mistake somewhere. Another. But directionally you are so on it. So how is it that something like the New York Times could, could write a piece that says that there's no evidence for what you're doing. It doesn't even make sense.

It was really surprising to me to see how much you can actually have an opinion rather than actual data. We have data, as you mentioned, we've published a day, we've published 240 papers now. So these are peer reviewed publications. So we have a lot of data. And so when I was called, it was called eight months before the article appeared, I was contacted by a report who said I want to do a story on Alzheimer's disease. And I said, look, I'm not interested in talking if it's just going to be a hit piece. But if you're interested, if you would consider talking to about a dozen different patients, doctors and others who have firsthand knowledge have seen these things happen, have reviewed our data, all these things. I also sent her data from our ongoing randomized controlled trial, interim data of which are already highly statistically significant. So there's just no question. So she talked all these people who'd improved. She left out all of that and found on her own, found one person who started, who'd already been rejected from a drug study because she was too far along, started very late and actually did get a little improvement for about six months, but then gave up and, and focused. The whole article is about that one person and the idea that I'm some sort of charlatan who's, who's pushing this. Look, we've, as you know, it's always been outcome first. And you mentioned, you know, pharma, there are actually new drug targets. That's what's incredible. We have a really exciting new candidate based on a new target that negates the effect of APOE4. There are 75 million Americans with APOE4.

Let's talk about that increase. What is APOE4 for listeners?

Yeah, great point. So when you look at risk for Alzheimer's and of course it's some of the things you were referring to, things like mitochondrial function and ongoing inflammation. But the micro most common genetic risk, which is present about 25% of the population is APOE 4. So this is apolipoprotein E, which is a fat carrying protein. So you think about it like your butcher, it's the guy who carries the fat. What we discovered in the lab and published years ago was that this thing also binds to specific receptors and enters the nucleus of the cell and changes the programming toward a pro inflammatory state. So it is a pro inflammatory protectant in that sense. But as part of that, it increases the phosphorylation of tau. So you're going down that Alzheimer pathway, it increases the production of A beta and reduces the egress of the A beta. So you're changing toward a more protective state. One of the big things that we found in the last five years is that you have literally just the way you go from sleep to wakefulness, you have connection mode and protection mode. And so what's happening is when you are in connection mode, you've got your ketones are good, your, you know, your metabolism is good, you don't have a lot of, you know, of insulin resistance, you don't have a lot of inflammation. Things are good. Then you are in connection mode and you can see it. What's amazing, Dave, you can see it at every level. It changes your likelihood of thrombosis, it changes your app signaling, it changes whether the Apoe 4 is interacting with DNA or not and changing these programs. But APOE 4 interacts with 1700 gene promoters and literally changes the state of the cell toward more of a protection, less of connection. And this is why you can see changes in people in their 20s, 30s, 40s, things like that. So we looked at why is that, what is actually doing that. And what we found is that there's a specific molecular pathway. We then developed a drug candidate, very exciting, orally, bioavailable, highly brain penetrant, highly potent, non toxic. And this thing causes your APOE 4 to act like APOE 3.

Is this going to be affordable?

Really striking. It will be affordable, yes. As soon as we can get it. We want to get it to the point of compassionate use because it's the sort of thing that could help millions and millions of people. So things are changing. And yes, if you now that we know what to look for, Alzheimer's is optional.

So good. I got a lot of flack when I said I spent $2 million to reverse my age by 20 years and I'm planning to live to at least 180 and that was in 2016. I did that. In fact, there was probably some angry stuff in the New York Times about it. Whatever. The, the important thing is that what you just said there would meaningfully drop by probably a trillion dollars the cost of healthcare in the US over the course of a decade if we just stopped all the Apoe4bad stuff. And that's just one of hundreds of longevity and, and health things that are happening right now.

Well, the statistics are very clear. The US spends over $300 billion per year on Alzheimer's disease. So a trillion. You're talking about three years. Three. Three. And have a dramatic change. And that's the hope. We really do want to see a reduction in the global burden of dementia.

Can we get a little bit conspiracy theory for a minute?

Sure.

All right.

Now, I believe in emergent behaviors from complex systems where you make millions of micro decisions and they stack up and then they look like something intentional. And so a big portion of the things we do come from emergent behavior from just perverse incentives. And then a bunch of other stuff comes from the presence of stupid people. And this isn't an insult at all. This is a Berkeley economics professor who defined what a stupid person is and says when they're out there, because we have random non rational behaviors that don't benefit anybody, that that pulls the system down. Okay, so interesting.

Yeah.

And then sometimes we have just asshole, evil sociopathic people running companies. And if there's 300 billion a year spent on Alzheimer's care, are there people pushing back against you because they're evil versus just because they're dumb?

There's some of both. So what happens is when you have something that is potentially going to bring your company $100 billion, of course your incentive is to. The incentive is to focus more on the incomes than the outcomes. We've got to focus on the outcomes because that's in the long run, that's going to be the key. The incomes will come, you know, it will have better targets, we'll have better outcomes. But the thing is that the who did. The reporter who did the New York Times article turned out had been paid by a group that is supported by pharma. So what a surprise. So let's push back on things that are different now. The fact of the matter is there will be some fantastic pharma around as we understand this disease better and better. But what has happened, unfortunately is pharma has taken an idea from the 1990s which was let's get rid of the amyloid, which doesn't work. Which exactly work. And it doesn't work. And it doesn't work. But they keep coming out with. But if we get the key opinion leaders, we pay them to say this is a breakthrough, people will just be stupid enough to continue to do this. And unfortunately that's what's going on. Here's the thing that blows me away, Dave. We know already that with these antibodies, if you just take the APOE4 four people, that's about 10% of the Alzheimer's patients. And there are about 7 million Americans who are APOE4.4 with about a 90% lifetime risk of Alzheimer and other cardiac stuff. These people are in trouble.

Yeah. Yeah.

And so. But okay, we can, we can do something about it. Get in early. Lots you can do. There's a wonderful group, as you know, apoe4.info. Well, it turns out that if you just look at that group, the antibodies actually make them worse than nothing. So in other words, instead of slowing the decline, which is what these antibodies are supposed to do, modestly, they don't make you better. They slow the decline a little bit. If you look at the Apoe 4.4s, they accelerate the decline.

I bet you that's mast cells doing that. What do you think?

It may well be. It's. It's something likely that is pro inflammatory, whether it's mast cells, cytokines, microglial activation, whatever it is. But what's happening today at the major university centers, if you go in as an APOE 44 and you have Alzheimer's, guess what? They recommend something that makes you worse. The am Something that, I mean, that is directly against the Hippocratic oath. And yet it's going on, done every day. It's hard to believe.

I'm really feeling safer now that there are a bunch of politicians removing our ability to sue big companies for the harm they cause, like chemical companies and big pharma companies who make certain things they can't be sued. Even if they do things that they know harm you. Does that make you feel good about the US Government and the way it's regulating the drug industry?

It makes me double down on. We just have to focus on, let's get the data, let's change the world. Because the thing that's amazing, when there are so many people sticking with stuff that clearly doesn't make sense, it really gives an opportunity for more rational approaches to make huge leaps forward. And I think that's what's going on. That's what's going on with biohacking. That's what's going on with the drug I mentioned. And you know, other current drugs that are amazing. One drug for all cancers. That is a remarkable new approach taken by Dr. Vishu Lingapa, MD, PhD, brilliant guy, has understood new mechanisms in cellular Funct has one has a drug candidate that eradicates all respiratory viruses. Doesn't matter if you have RSV Covid, because it gets at what is required by the cell to construct these viruses. So it's a new era. There are all these exciting things that are going to take us in new directions.

The trick is to be so innovative in the world that Big Pharma cannot buy those companies and shut them down fast enough. Because we both know that there are really effective drugs and techniques and technologies that have been acquired by Big Pharma so they could shelve them and sell other things. And this is something I learned when I had my war against being fat for myself. You know, trying to lose that a hundred pounds.

Yeah.

I was actually very angry for a while because I realized that when you're plotting economics, there's the maximum profitability strategy is sell someone something that makes them fat and tell them it makes them thin.

Right.

Because now you're causing the problem and they're spending money to solve a problem you caused. This is diet soda. This is low calorie junk foods that cause cravings. And whether someone did that on purpose or whether it was an emergency paper, I don't care. That's where you make the most money. And then when I put butter in your coffee, you make a lot less money putting butter in your coffee because you don't want to eat any food for the next four hours. But it's what's good for humans. And it feels like there's enough profit for all of us if we actually make people healthier, because healthier people will buy other stuff like IQ enhancing drugs, like longevity enhancing drugs and all the other cool stuff that we can do.

Right?

Yeah.

So you can see why people would push back against that. Wait a minute, you're taking away our profit margin here.

Yes.

So there are two fantastic books on this area. One is called Doctored and this by Charles Piller, of course. And he just goes into the fraud, all by the horrible, the subterfuge that is going on in the Alzheimer's field. Lying, cheating, stealing, again in the name of profit and in the name of prestige in the name. So it's a remarkably revealing book. The one thing is, it stops short of saying, but wait a minute, there's already something you can do. You don't have to deal with all this crap because there's a lot we can all do. So I was hoping he would get into that area, which he did. He didn't, but I'm hoping at some point he'll follow up. And the other book is of course Metabolical by Robert Lustig.

Oh yeah, he's been on the show.

Exactly. And just what you're talking about, you know, big food, big pharma, big health care. Just you just go around you get sick, you know, you get. You pay money. It's a. It's a horrible situation. And one way or another, there has to be a change in these things.

Something happens when people get Alzheimer's. And I watched this because I ran a longevity nonprofit in the Bay Area. I was the only guy under. Well, under 60, and I was under 30. And most of my board members, 70s, 80s, even 90s, and one former president who's since passed, started getting Alzheimer's and getting some of the cognitive dementia and became paranoid. And I watched the decline. When you're. When you start to lose your mind, and having been through the chronic fatigue and just insane brain fog, it's like you don't want to admit it to yourself. So then you'll do anything you can to not show it to the people around you. So you start acting erratic, but you're unconsciously trying to just not show this. But it's a deeply frightening thing when you call on your brain and it doesn't respond.

Yes.

And I feel like that fear is something that makes people easy to program around Alzheimer's. What's your message for someone who thinks they might have Alzheimer's? Do they need to be afraid, given what you know?

No, but they need to be active. That's the key. So, you know, you bring up a really good point, because there's been this idea that there's nothing you can do. Everybody delays and the doctors delay. We see this all the time. You know, I went to my neurologist and he said, ah, you're not that bad yet. Come back next year. That's the last thing you want to do. So, as I mentioned that you have these four stages. Presymptomatic, where you can already see changes in biomarkers, sci, subjective cognitive impairment, mci, mild cognitive impairment. And by definition, the difference between those two is sci. You can still score. Normally on testing. Mci, you can't, but you're still. You've got your activities of daily living. When those start to go, that's the final phase. That is dementia by definition. So we can pick this up early now. There are some great blood tests, as you know, looking at P Tau217, looking at GFAP, looking at NFL. By the way, I just had mine done a couple of months ago. I was like, okay, I want to know these things to see. Am I. I'm now 73, been around for a long time, so. And of course, for the vast majority of my life, I did everything wrong. Brownie pizza. I didn't know you know, yeah, pizza, Great. You know, so. So I wanted to know where my brain stands. And so great. I was happy to see these are all okay. If you're under 60, you want to check them about every five years, easy. So if you start noticing some changes, and of course, we'd like everyone who's 35 or over to be on active prevention. But if you don't do that, and you start now noticing just what you're saying, the biochemistry and the symptoms fit perfectly. The biochemistry tells us, and the synaptic biochemistry tells us. This is, if you step back, a network insufficiency. And you know a lot about networks, obviously, so. So you've got this beautiful 500 trillion node network, 500 trillion synapses in your brain. And as you have too much demand from mast cells, from inflammation, from cytokines, from all these things, or too little support, too little blood flow, mitochondrial function, oxygenation, which is why people with sleep apnea are at increased risk. Toxicity associated with, you know, mycotoxins and things like that, you end up with a mismatch. Your supply is too low, your demand is too high. Not a surprise. And again, as I mentioned, you know, you go into. You go from this connection mode to protection mode, you're now pulling back and you're making that amyloid and tau that we have vilified over the years because they are antimicrobial, and that has been beautifully documented. And by the way, Dave, taking this, all these diseases now are network insufficiencies, different networks that have been selected evolutionarily to have tremendous performance. And so we've now seen recently reversal of symptoms of PCA, Posterior Cortical Atrophy, ALS, CBS, Corticobasal Syndrome, a remarkable patient of Dr. Craig Tanio, PSP, Progressive Supranuclear Palsy. So again and again and again, understand even Parkinson's, right?

Because Parkinson's, the dopamine neurons that are energy intensive, they run out of energy, right? Similar effects, right?

If you just simply shut down someone's complex one with rotenone or MPP or any of many other things, you end up with Parkinson's. So there's some ongoing wonderful work by Dr. Dorsey and his colleagues looking at what's driving Parkinson's. Why is it that this is on a huge increase in Parkinson's over the last several years? And they believe that this is because of increased exposure to specific organic toxins like TCE and PCE and dieldron and things like that. These are interesting. These are. Some of. These are Degreasing agents. But the other thing that we've run into recently, of course, people who have been exposed to burn pits overseas and in Dr. Thomas. You mean all of California.

Yeah.

Really, really. Well, and the California fires aren't helping, right?

No, they're not.

But the. But people who have been in the Middle east and have been exposed to these burn pits, and Dr. Tanio's patient actually had been a marine and had come back and had already been diagnosed with corticobasal syndrome. No cases in history of improvement of that. It's a hundred percent fatal. And he tracked it down to multiple organic toxins she had been exposed to in these burn pits and treated her. And she's improved. So, you know, we're seeing these in a different light now.

One of the biohacking strategies that I. I've recommended for a long time is reduce exposure to toxins. Increase your body's ability to excrete toxins.

Yes.

And these techniques make young people perform better cognitively, emotionally. And they make old people young again.

Exactly.

And then you, of course, upregulate power production with mitochondria, downregulated inflammation and neuroplasticity. And there's all these different steps. And I remember in Headstrong, my. My brain book, I said it's very likely that toxic mold, which directly lowers mitochondrial function, is a cause of Alzheimer's. And you came out with research. You're probably already working on it at the time, but you published it shortly after. And we talked about that in the last show where you said it's one of the seven major causes of Alzheimer's, but it's not the only one. What are the other major causes of Alzheimer's?

Yeah, so great point. So anything that increases inflammation. Yeah. Increases toxicity.

So. French fries.

So, yep, French fries. But again, we have to quit thinking this is. I'm fine. I have Alzheimer's. It doesn't work that way. It's. As you said, there's the. This amazing dynamic. I mean, everybody even knows days when they're sharper and days when they're not as sharp, you've got this dynamic change going on. And Alzheimer's is simply the situation in which you've gotten to the downsizing enough, you've gotten off the supply and demand enough, that you have pulled back and pulled back and pulled back. And again, you can pick it up with P. Tau. So the big causes are. Are the common ones are things that impact inflammation, toxicity, and energetics. So it's sleep apnea. It's Changes in the oral microbiome. Mycotoxins are one of the most common, and it's amazing because they've not even been blessed by the Alzheimer's association yet. It says, well, we don't buy that yet. It's one of the most common causes. We see it all the time. Of course. Course gut health. So people who've got leaky gut, that's another common one, maybe the most common is metabolic syndrome. So people who've got insulin resistance. And of course, when we used to grow neurons in dishes in the lab, you always have to include some insulin there. It is a trophic support for neurons. And so when you become insulin resistant, you are not supporting those neurons the way you should.

Well, that's one of the reasons that one of the cognitive enhancers and treatments for Alzheimer's is a nasal spray, where you literally crack open a vial of insulin, put it in a nasal spray and take a hit of it, and your brain clears like that. But if you do it all the time, you're going to get insulin resistant.

Exactly.

Yeah.

So, you know, we want to be insulin sensitive. And that's part of the treatment, part of the optimal treatment.

Wow. One of the things that makes me really happy is when supplements kick pharmaceuticals ass. And I've got something for you. It's called C15 from a company called Fatty 15. And it's more effective than metformin or rapamycin. In fact, scientists are calling this newly discovered essential fat the longevity nutrient because it's the first essential fat to be discovered in the last 90 years. C15 is unlike anything else out there because it's a true geroprotector, meaning it actually slows biological aging. Aging in studies. How does that work? By strengthening your cell membranes by 80%, activating AMPK and MTOR, which you've read about in my books. That means less inflammation and a reduction of oxidative stress by 45%. Scientists have found over 36 clinically relevant health benefits from fatty 15. Public estimates are that one in three people have low C15 levels in their bodies. And if you don't have enough C15, you have fragile stuff cells and you age more quickly. Fatty 15 supports your cells better than omega 3s or fish oil, with three times more benefits for your cells. I use both. In clinical studies, 72% of fatty 15 users reported deeper sleep, better mood, healthier joints, and better energy improvement in 16 weeks. It's a pretty incredible story, and it's real. Better yet, they're giving you 15% off their 90 day subscription starter kit. Just go to fatty15.com Dave have you looked in the mirror and noticed your hair isn't as full as it used to be? It's because your scalp ages just like your skin. But instead of fine lines and wrinkles, aging can affect your hair follicles and how your hair actually grows senescent cells or what you know as zombie cells, if you read my books, are major causes of age related hair loss, even thinning. And they can start to build starting in your 20s. And when those cells accumulate, they contribute to having thinner hair, a shorter hair growth cycle, and they're linked to male pattern hair loss and stress induced hair loss. So what do you do about it? One Skin, the company that makes amazing skincare things that I use, just came out with a peptide scalp serum called os1 hair and it's incredible. It contains the powerful os1 peptide. The scientists at once again formulated the serum to, to target the cellular senescence that's a primary cause of age related hair loss and thinning. Two months after I started using it, people started commenting, wow, your hair looks a lot thicker than it did before. And I'm really genuinely impressed with how quickly it works. And the science is very strong backing it up. In fact, the studies show 40% improvement in thickness and density of new hair. That's a big number your hair, it's just not about looking good, good. It's a sign of overall health and longevity. So if you want to make your hair better than it is today, give it a try. Get to the root of hair loss and thinning with One Skin's peptide scalp serum. It's called OS one Hair and it is on my list of I must have this because I like my hair. Go to Oneskin Co Dave, they'll give you 15% off. This stuff really works. For years I've looked at the American Diabetes Association. I said, oh, that's a trade union to increase diabetes and God, the American Cancer association. Those guys, don't they just cause cancer? It feels like they have actively resisted everything that stops cancer. Is the American Alzheimer's association just a trade group to cause Alzheimer's to get bigger so their funding can go up?

I don't think the goal is to make more Alzheimer's, but I do think the goal is to raise money and, and to control, control the narrative, which is unfortunate. So when you look at the source of the money, you know there's a lot of money coming from pharma and so of course the group is then going to say, oh, these drugs are good, when objectively they are not. And so many people have said that. But when you pay enough key opinion leaders to say what you want them to say, you're going to change the narrative, which is. Which is unfortunate.

There was a drug in the last few years for Alzheimer's approved by the fda that, that in studies didn't help Alzheimer's, but they just felt we needed to say we had a drug for it. Tell me about that.

Yeah, I assume you're talking about Adakanamab Adu Helm. It's so interesting because it was just as you say, they say, well, we had to have something. So can you imagine? They're like, okay, let's see, you've got tuberculosis. This doesn't help your tuberculosis at all. But we gotta say something. I mean, this is the source of chicanery that's been going on in this field because there hasn't been an understanding of what's going on, which is why we were so interested in the research. Now the research makes so much sense. We see what's going on. We see how it relates to normal cognition. We see how early you can intervene. We see how positive the outcomes. We've had people go from MOCA scores of 18, which is in that fourth stage, to perfect 30. Now, we've never had anyone go from zero to 30. That's the goal. But. But we've had people go from significant Alzheimer's to perfect scores on their mocas, and others, of course, with less improvement. So it varies depending on how compliant. What are their genetics? This is why I think so many of us should know where we stand. You mentioned detox. You can look at your detox genetics as you know, with 3x4, with intellect, DNA with DNA, life with a number.

Of Sharon from Intellix, DNA on the show.

Great.

I'm going to get my results. Results. In fact, I got a text about my results, and as I predicted, my very first book, I have a problem with folic acid. But folinic acid, not methylfolate, is the one that everyone can metabolize even if methylfolate doesn't work. And that's the one I need. How did I know? I don't know. I guess just relentless pain.

Yeah.

So she confirmed something. So that's a great thing that you brought that up. And one thing that's fascinated me about you, you. Most researchers, though, they kind of zoom in naturally on one thing. Yeah, right. And not Alzheimer's, I'm saying, but like one pathway.

Right.

Like I'M a Tao guy and you're just going to go all in on it and then the blinders come on. But you just listed an enormous set of possibilities that come from different systems in the body. What makes your brain, your research brain, so spread out compared to what we often see.

So, you know, I started as a reductionist like everybody else, looking at how can we do this? And as you mentioned, there used to be the Baptists from beta AP Beta amyloid peptide and the Taoists from the. From P. Tau and, you know, the Baptist. It was a joke. You know, it's a great joke. And yeah, but they, but nobody had any results. You know, nobody could make people better. This has been part of the problem. You could be an expert without making a single person better. Now that's changed. So when we kept going at what is happening here and kept looking, we wanted to ask, what is the fundamental nature of this disease? So I used to go to these meetings with my fellow scientists and say, we want to know what Alzheimer's actually is. And they look like, what are you talking about? It's Alzheimer's. Well, but wait, how does this work? And so when we started looking at all these things and, well, is this pathway involved? We started to realize, well, wait a minute, all these different. You know, There are over 200,000 papers published on Alzheimer's disease. And so you can exclude the vast majority of theories just by looking at the papers. Right. So of course, with the AI being able to look up all these things so quickly, it's even easier than before. But what is. So we wanted to get an idea of something that actually tells you and predicts what's getting better. And so we realized this is a network insufficiency. What's happening is your brain is getting exposed to these various insults, which it's happening all the time. Your oral microbiome, when you look at the normal brain microbiome, and who knew there was going to be one then? What you see in there is mostly oral and rhinocyanal organisms. So there is this connection, unfortunately, in some ways. So what we want to do is ask, okay, what's the brain doing? And we realize your brain is dealing with these things. We all the time. And in fact, you can. You make these prions, which. Another thing which has been vilified proteinaceous infectious agents discovered they killed a lot.

Of cows for economic reasons. Blaming prions. Yeah, yep.

And. And this, of course, was discovered by My mentor, Dr. Stanley Pruzner, won the Nobel Prize in 1997 for this brilliant Work that he did over the years. But these are not just proteinaceous infectious agents, they are anti infectious. They, they're antimicrobials.

Oh, so they're being formed for a reason.

Exactly. So you have these insults, your brain responds by making amyloid, by making tau. Now here's the interesting piece. You can go for years as long as you don't have the inflammatory component. These things just sequester. They're a little bit like your skin or cerumen. They are antimicrobial pre inflammatory. So they are before the activation of the innate immune system, which, which of course precedes the adaptive immune system. So this is a third and initial piece that is responding to these things. As long as you can sequester herpes simplex, P. Gingivalis, T. Denticola, all these various things, your brain can live with these for decades. But when they exit this, if you aren't good enough or you have APOE 4, you're pro inflammatory, you start getting the cytokines, the mast cell activation, the, the microglial activation, all this stuff. Now you have a function compromising situation instead of a function supporting situation.

I've had a lifetime of mast cell activation, toxic mold exposure, bartonella, heavy metals, some genetic stuff involved, antibiotics for 15 years every month because of gut things. I got a lipid polysaccharide rides. Let's just say that I'm the least likely person to live to 180 and even the least likely person to be 6% body fat.

Yeah.

And to have the longevity markers that I have. But I still wonder, am I still at high risk of Alzheimer's or is this something that through lifestyle that I can absolutely reverse? I don't have APOE 4. I'm not a 3 3, but I'm a 34 like most people.

Yeah.

Okay, so. So you're saying you have one copy of four and one copy of three.

Yeah.

Okay. So first of all, as far as can it be reversed? You can always optimize, you can always improve. You know, Professor Mike Merzenich pointed who's, who's the, the father of, of brain training showed that you have plasticity till your dying days. So that's what's fantastic. You have this plasticity that goes. And if you make it to 180 and I hope you do, you, you will have plasticity. Until then, well, you're going to be.

Like 203 at the time or something. So let's hang out.

I'm not. I already know. I did so many things during my life, you know, and I found out all this stuff later than you did, so I, I don't think I'm going to make there. But it's okay. I mean, I'm happy with where things are going here. We're, we're discovering a lot. I'm hoping I live long enough that we can really see a reduction in the global burden of dementia. That would be, be so cool. So the idea, though is that as long as you haven't lost too many neurons and you've got, as you know, you've got stem cells, you've got neural stem cells, and there are going to be things coming along that will increase. Your neural stem cells.

Yes. And you'll be able to get treated with them today.

Right, Exactly. So I think you're going to be able to rebuild. So one of the things that we always face is we want to remove the problem from the, Remove people from their mycotoxins, remove people from their metabolic problems, et cetera. Secondly, we want to optimize everything thing, just as you were saying, want to get their gut so that it's not leaky, so that it's got the right microbiome. Same for their oral microbiome. Make sure you, they don't have sleep apnea, all that stuff. The third piece is the hardest. We want to rebuild what's already been lost.

Yes.

And so that's where things like stem cells come in. But optimizing hormones, that can be helpful. Look at the intranasal trophic factors that are coming along. There's a lot going on. And as you know, as you get older, there's more to be more and more available to rebuild. Plus, you can already see by your function and your markers, you haven't lost much anything. So you should be in great shape.

I'm kicking ass. I have an 87th percentile hippocampal volume.

There you go.

And I just went down to RMI and I had focused ultrasound to open up my blood brain barrier with exosomes and stem cells to go into the hippocampus and also into the hypothalamus.

Wow.

Which is, you know, pretty cutting edge stuff, by the way, guys. Daveasprey.com RMI and there's a link to the episode about that because, I mean, this is something very few people get to do. It's expensive, it'll become more effective. And so I'm working on rebuilding anything I lost when I was young. And I can tell, like when does my brain work and when does it not work. And that's become a reliable signal because I used to be a 95%. It doesn't work today. And I'm just like, I have the accelerator all the way down and I'm not going any faster. I'm slowing down.

Yeah.

And that's really gone from my life, except maybe one day every six months when I earned it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, I might have stayed up for two days or something.

Yeah.

Pretend I'm 19.

Okay.

And you're gonna tell me three things to do to not get Alzheimer's, given your entire lifetime of wisdom. But I'm 19. I got a lot of things to do. I want to go on a date or whatever. So I have other priorities. Three things. Things, easy. They're gonna lower my risk the most.

Okay. Number one, put in your diary. That or put on your iPhone, whatever. That when you hit 35, you will start getting your biomarkers checked every five years so you'll be able to see it coming. And it will never. That's the thing. If everybody looks, sees it coming ahead of time, you can prevent the problem, which is why we talk about it being optional. Second thing, optimize your diet. Get rid of the junk food, get rid of the processed food, get rid of the gluten. You want to have what we, we call a plant rich, mildly ketogenic diet. And so we call this Ketoflex 12. 3. But it's similar to what everyone's doing. It's a plant rich, not plant only, plant rich, mildly ketogenic diet. Appropriate organics so that you don't have all these, you know, paraquat and these pesticides, by the way. Paraquat, big risk factor for Parkinson's. So that would be the second thing.

Okay, tell me the third one. Let's talk about paraquat a little bit. So what's the third thing?

Gotcha. So the third thing is gonna be. It's gonna be a close, close race between exercising appropriately and detoxifying those two. I would say 3A and 3B. Just to make sure you're in good shape. And you're a 19 year old. You do those things, you're gonna see things coming and you're never gonna have a problem. And that's what's so crazy. We are in the dark ages where doctors are telling patients with full confidence there's nothing you can do about this. It just happens. You had a protein that misfolded and you're going to die and we can't help. I mean, that is A dark age stuff.

One of the things I learned from my elders, when I'm in my 20s and I'm looking at people in their 80s and 90s reversing their age, who mentored me, is that it takes a lot of money and time and work. Work to reverse something, and it takes almost no effort to prevent something.

Exactly.

And so the. The pennies you'll spend of effort and money when you're in your late teens, early 20s, just on basic prevention.

Yes.

They pay off thousands of times better. It's like getting on Bitcoin in 2012. In terms of your health stuff. You don't have to be anywhere near perfect. You just have to be directionally better. And then your odds of. Of bad things like Alzheimer's happening later in life, those are much less. But in the meantime, before Alzheimer's, your brain's gonna work better.

Yeah.

Like, everybody wins on this one.

Exactly. And, you know, they used to say, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. That's gonna have to be changed. An ounce of prevention is worth a ton of cure because there is this huge change, as you said. You're right. Now what's happening is there are million dollars and multimillion dollar solutions. Right. When you get to, you know, when you get to the later stages. But you want to avoid that. There are very simple things that everyone can do to save life, to save their telomeres, to save their epigenetics, to save their longevity, to say, and to save their cerebrum.

It's one of the reasons that I have so many followers in their mid-20s like, that the top 10, 20% of people who want to do something with their life, like, oh, my gosh, this is so, like, I'm into it because I felt it now. Now.

Yeah.

And they're getting this lifetime benefits. And so all of the stuff that I produce, I'm like, if only I'd have known when I was 19, like, the amount of money, the millions of dollars and all of the suffering, it was optional. I just didn't know.

Yeah.

You ever go to the zoo and see elephants behind this little fence?

Yeah.

You know, they get them to do that. No, it's called learned helplessness.

Yeah.

So what they do is they put them in an enclosure with really, really heavy timber, and they try to bang it down. It doesn't work. After a while, they learn they can't do it, so they put a slightly weaker one, and eventually they're fully convinced there's nothing they can do, and they can just walk right through the fence.

Right.

This has happened in medicine around Alzheimer's, and it is absolutely tragic. And for every health condition that exists, there is something you can do. And it may not not reverse the condition, but it can at least make you feel better. It can give you less symptoms, you give you more time. And I taught my kids very early on, you're not allowed to say something's impossible. You're allowed to say, I don't know how to do that, or I don't have the resources to do that. And how do we get medicine to get us? We don't know how to do that, but let's try instead of, we're helpless, what is the switch? Because you're not helpless.

Right, right. There's so much that can be done. And I think that the way is through training. There are more and more physicians training through functional medicine, through precision medicine, through 21st century medicine, integrative medicine, all of these things. And the patients know that that's where they want to go because they get the results and say, wait a minute. Oh, my gosh. So at some point there's going to be be this changeover. But you're absolutely right. The standard right now is to say, yeah, you have cognitive decline. There's nothing you can do about it. Oh, there's a breakthrough drug that will slow it up a little bit. For $50,000 a year, it might make your brain bleed a little bit, make it swell. Rarely it'll cause death, but it's a breakthrough.

Wow.

So you're right. There is that learned helplessness. And it's been, you know, it's been so, so easy. It just rolls off the tongue for people to say, nothing can be done, nothing can be done. The standard for years was there is nothing that will prevent, delay, or reverse cognitive decline. And yet we've been publishing it and seeing it and in trials since 2014.

That's also learned blindness because there is something that reduces cognitive decline. It's called coffee.

Yeah.

I mean, I. Yes, I've run a coffee company. I have a bias. Whatever danger coffee. Who knows what you might do? But you look at the studies of dementia and coffee and you go, oh, my God, there is something. But it's not a drug, therefore it doesn't exist.

Right. Yeah.

Right. So it drives me nuts. All right, let's talk about paraquat.

Yeah.

I just did a post online, probably on Instagram, I probably on all the platforms at this point about recent legal changes is paraquat is illegal to spray in China and a large Chinese company manufactures it that is controlled by the Chinese government. And I have no issues with China. Nobody in any country controls what their government does. Governments do bad everywhere. They're sending this thing to the US where it's legal to use and they just pass legislation that it's illegal to sue the manufacturer of this compound 4 or it's causing Parkinson's, which we already know it does.

Yeah.

So talk to me about the mechanisms of paraquat and our brains, whether it also would affect Alzheimer's and what's going on legally with us.

Yeah.

So as we were talking about earlier, you know, through evolution, what's happened is you're optimizing performance over protection and longevity so that you've got these amazing neural sub networks. So you have one for neuroplasticity. You can remember more than over 2,2000 home computers. It's incredible what you can remember. You've got another one which is there for motor modulation. That's the one that goes awry in Parkinson's. You've got one there for power amplification. And by the way, when you go from a thought, which is about a millionth of a calorie per second to the maximum muscle contraction, which is about a half a calorie per second, you get more of an amplification than you do when you stomp down on your accelerator in your car.

Wow.

It's incredible. But all these amazing things. And of course, your macula is another one where you can distinguish over a million different colors and shades. So these things are high energy requirement systems that have allowed you to survive and to beat out your competition at the expense of durability. And so what happens is different ones, each one has its own Achilles heel. And in Alzheimer's we've already talked about, it's things like mycotoxins and it's things like. It's basically the supply and demand for that system. In Parkinson's, it's even more clear that it is mitochondrial complex 1.

Yes.

So if you give rotenone, paraquat, TCE, MPP, just go right down the list. Anything that will inhibit complex 1 increases your risk for Parkinson's. So I don't expect to see a lot of Alzheimer's because it's a different system.

Because it's complex one.

Yeah.

And we know how to increase complex one mitochondrial function. There's lots of nutritional and biohacking ways to do it.

There are lots. And we also know how to circumvent it with methylene blue and actually get some circumvention of this. Which is why I think methylene blue has a real future in Parkinson's, maybe more so than in Alzheimer's disease. So more work needs to be done on this. But you're absolutely.

Can we pause for a second there? Every researcher I know always says more work needs to be done. I'm sorry, if you have Parkinson's, take some freaking methylene blue because it's probably not going to hurt you. You're going to die of Parkinson's anyway if you don't do something about it.

It.

Methylene blue's been in use for longevity for 25 years plus. The risk is low, potential benefits are high. Does more work need to be done or should we just take action now and do more work?

Well, yeah, so what I'm. When I say more work needs to be done, I'm talking about enhancing it.

Oh, okay.

I'm with you.

Get it earlier and keep on. And by the way, to me, the most promising thing in Parkinson's is mitochondrial transfusions.

Oh, we just did an episode on that.

So did you talk to Mitrix about that whole gap?

You know, everything.

Dale, tell me more. The brain is important. Yeah. There's so much going on, I think, because what happens when you look at someone with Parkinson's? The mitochondria are not functioning optimally. So it looks like a pretty good candidate for an approach where you are increasing mitochondrial function without having to do a hell of a lot else. Now, there are things, as you know, ubiquitin mediated degradation of proteins. There's pink one and all these sorts of things. Parkin, there are the other genes involved. But again, you look at the big picture. This is a network insufficiency related to the motor modulation system that has been optimized over the years that is heavily dependent on mitochondrial complex 1 and its associated functions. And so there's a pretty clear path. And as you know, there's a lot of work going on with mitochondrial transfusions. But you can't walk into your doctor today and say, give me an effective mitochondrial transfusion. It's coming and the sooner the better.

And I know that Mytrix is raising some funding now and they're about to do. A 90 year old will be their first recipient.

Yeah.

And this is something since 1998 I've wanted to do is mitochondrial transfusion because I think my mitochondrial networks are pretty fucked up for whatever reason. Just all these problems I've had.

Join the club. I think many of us.

Yeah. Why wouldn't I introduce a new population because they are individual bacteria at a certain level. They talk to our nuclear DNA and all that, but they have their own network. That's not our brain. So let's introduce some diversity to that network with maybe some more superpowers. Years.

Absolutely.

If you could get a mitochondrial transfusion for longevity, would you consider it?

Absolutely.

Okay, me too. Yeah, I think that'll be the next stem cells, but it might take. Man, I've been a futurist pretty accurately in the direction, but I'm always aggressive on timing. I think it'll be five years before wealthy people get it and maybe 10 to 12 years before it becomes more commonplace like stem cells are today.

Yeah.

Does that seem accurate?

That would. Is it funny? Because I was going to say five years. Yeah, five years is the number I would put on it because you're still going to have to, you know, you've got to have enough experimentation, you have enough people, enough anecdotes. I do believe that this compassionate use is something that has been underutilized. So when you go through phase one, phase two, phase three, that takes, you know, tens or hundreds of millions of dollars.

Yeah.

And we've got things where there is nothing. And so compassionate use was meant for that. And in fact TB006, which is an anti inflammatory and anti GAL3 has gone through compassionate use without ever doing a phase three and the FDA has approved that. I believe that this Apoe 4 negating drug should be compassionately used before we spend, you know, try to spend many, many years trying to get a phase three trial. Let's show that it's safe, let's show that it's effective and then let's have compassionate use for these things because these are things that are needed.

This kind of feels like a learned helplessness situation to me. So I'm a computer hacker. My brain is trained to go around systems that are put in place to stop me from doing what I want to do. It's built into my very view of reality, for better or worse.

Yeah, right.

And I'm like, oh, so in the US where healthcare costs three times more than anywhere else and has very poor outcomes, they want hundreds of millions of dollars. Well, them. So go to a place that will change regulations to Elijah, go to Abu Dhabi, go to Costa Rica, go to Roatan, where for probably 5% of the cost of doing a drug in the US you can create a drug, you can start treating people and then, then the people who wouldn't be able to buy it in the US will fly to you and bring home a supply. And the FDA isn't even allowed to stop that. You can bring any drug in that's not directly illegal with a 90 day supply as long as any doctor on the planet says you can. So like why, why are we spending all this money like someone who's doing investing and I do invest in, in the field, not as much on pharma, but sometimes invest in the companies who say, I am going to bring this drug out for $25 million with real clinical trials. And I don't care about the FDA gateways. The US is not allowed to have this drug until they change their laws. And we get a bunch of old, sick, fat, unhappy people who go on a medical $400 vacation to go pick up their drugs, they will change the laws. Am I crazy for thinking about that? Am I still too hopeful?

No, I think, I think it's a good point. And I think that there are two key points here. Number one is a lot of these laws have come because they want to make sure to protect people. So I get it.

To protect people or profits?

Both. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, that's the problem. You're right. So a piece of this is we don't want first do no harm and that's Hippocrates. That's why it just is so sad to me that people are recommending drugs that we already know are going to accelerate your decline. And then I think the other piece of this is that you've got to have access for people. And people, unfortunately they'll say, look, the US market is so much bigger than the others that we want to sell within the US and so we don't care about developing stuff. So I do think it's going to take biohackers and it's going to take people to say, yeah, but we do care about everybody. We want to make so that you can, can get it in Abu Dhabi or in Riyadh or some other place. And I do think there is a lot of innovation. Innovation is being exported. That's what's surprising.

It's crazy. It's all because of regulation. And Trump is working on bringing all this industrial stuff back in. We gotta bring medical research back in.

Yes.

And I'm not proposing that we don't serve Americans, I'm just proposing that we serve them last because it's 10 times more expensive to make a drug here. So making it work in India for a billion people make it work all over the planet. And when that happens, Then it becomes affordable to do a clinical trial because you already have a multi billion dollar company. So I just don't want to have to raise $500 million, 400 million of which goes to like FDA regulatory and only 100 million goes into science. Let's put the 100 million into science and have a fully shipping product, even if it's expensive. And I will fly there and buy it and so will millions of people. And it feels like innovations like mobile phones happen that way. The first mobile phones, you go to LA and there's some fat studio executive in a Mercedes 300D with a $40,000 cell phone, drops calls and costs $20aminute. And we're all like, look at that bad man driving with his phone. Who does he think he is? He's the guy who funded the dollar cell phones in Africa today. And it feels like for longevity and for the drugs you're talking about, make them available somewhere on the surface of the earth and the people who need it most will get it and they'll tell everyone. And I feel like this change is going to happen and it's going to just blow up. This the type of regulatory stuff that isn't really about safety, that is about protectionism. But I hope we can keep the safety in place.

Yeah.

And I think again, this is where innovation is going to be increasingly happening outside the US because of these anti innovation rules. And one of the problems is if you are running a drug company, you want the bar to be set high, you don't want to have it to be easy for people to come, hey, we've got something better. So this is, you've got to get around that. And as you said, it shouldn't cost. You know, the current cost for developing a drug is around a billion dollars by the time you get through the research and phase threes and marketing, all this sort of stuff. And of course the vast majority aren't going to work. So to get this so that you can democratize this so that you can develop them outside and develop them and show look, these are things that are really needed and then bring, bring them back in makes a lot more sense.

It does. And, and this is a pattern. That's one of those economic things we've talked about. Disincentives for Alzheimer's.

Yeah.

In order to braid hair, you need a two year expensive training program to get a license to braid hair. Now this is not for people's safety. This is protectionism of the job. That's all it is. Yeah, right. And I think Some of this is happening in the world of pharmaceutical and I want things to be safe. And so we've got to move faster. We've got to blow up these things by just going around them and saying, look, you can have this system, but the people who are most desperate are going to do this. And it's already to the point where I can go to Costa Rica or I can go to Thailand and I can have access to technologies that are still not accessible in the US that work better and they cost 10% as much and there's a team of five people around you who you couldn't do this in the US So it just feels like at a certain point systems collapse under their own weight. And our regulatory frameworks for innovation, for longevity and for chronic diseases, they're about to collapse in the US and we're paying the cost because we live here.

Yeah.

So you know, when I met you about a decade ago, we were sitting in a restaurant in Westwood and you pulled out your phone and you said, I have an Uber coming. And at the time that was a pretty new thing. And so, you know, look what happened to the taxi industry. I mean this is what's going to happen to the pharmaceutical industry.

Oh yes.

Yeah, we need the Uber of pharma to have more innovation, to bring on things earlier, as you pointed out, they're snatching up things before they get that far. But to be able to develop things more quickly, greater innovation, yes, of course there has to be safety. But a lot of this stuff, these hunters, hundred million dollar drug trials, I mean we don't need for most of these things. The need is too great to wait for $100 million to be available.

The idea that somewhere in the constitution it says that the government has a right to stop me from being healthy. Really, really isn't. It's not real.

Yeah.

And the right to experiment is something that a few health freedom people are working on right now. And I, I Remember back in 2008, my former wife and I started a company that could detect non antibody responses to implants. And a surgeon reached out to us and this is an unknown technology and he reached out and he said, I've been up late for nights and nights because I have a 10 or 12 year old who's dying and I put chest expander in. He had that medical condition where your ribs grow in and crush your lungs. I forget what it's called. And I put a titanium thing in and he just started dying and, and I, I'm desperate and I don't Want to lose this patient. And we ran the test and this poor kid had massive and or massive white blood cell response to the specific implant materials. So instead of saying let's take it out and put in a zirconium one the they said well it's not approved here. Right. So his parents going to have to spend huge amounts of money to fly to Europe to do it. So we did all the paperwork to get a compassionate exemption and the FDA did. Grant was wrong that that surgeon had to do anything other than order the thing he wanted because he's the doctor. And I want to put power back in doctors pockets, not in regulators, not in insurance companies. What else can we do in the system today to give you the power to make people healthy faster?

It's a great point and it's, it's going to be, you know, as I've said in the past, when you're dealing with politics, truth is one of the weakest arguments you have.

You're so right.

You know, this is as we all know, I mean politics is not about data, it's not about truth. And we need to find a way to, to recognize that there are better outcomes to be had. And so I do think there's kind of a, it's a two prong. One is what you talked about earlier, which is innovation outside the US and then creating, if you remember what happened with the day after pill that was outside the US and people said, hey wait, we want this. And then there's this desire. I mean the same sort of thing happened in early days of Uber. The taxi guys were like, you can't do this, this doesn't work. And so then there was pressure put on. But don't people want it? Yes, people want this. And so it survived. And I think that the other piece of this then will be the inside the US piece which will be, you know, interacting with the politicians or showing that hey, we've got something that people want and if people want it, then they're going to support it.

I would encourage you to go to whatever AI you like and say, hey, help me find every member of government at any level that has a loved one with Alzheimer's. And when you heal someone's mom, it's really hard even for evil politicians to not pay attention. And not all politicians are evil, but some of them are. So it may be just that, oh my gosh, I saw this. I cannot let my constituents do this. So I hope there's a way. And if you're a politician listening to this going, this Guy is so bad as an. I'm so bad. Dale's great. You look, if someone. Your family has Alzheimer's. It's optional. It actually is optional. And I want everyone listening to know that. Oh, and women get it twice as much as men. Which is why I said your mom, not your dad. Now let's switch gears a bit. You're 73.

Yeah.

And it would be very easy for you to be angry and bitter over the fact that you have this abundance of evidence. 250 papers. You know what's going on. You're a top expert in the world. And I can feel people's energy states. I do all the shamanics of like, you are actually genuinely peaceful and happy inside. Like this is not an act. This is just how you show up. And you've been consistent for 10 years. What do you do to just wake up and have this kind of energy?

Yeah, great point that you, you mentioned that. And for sure I'm not a good role model. I spent of the time, most, most of my career in sympathetic drive. Eating pizza, eating brownies, you know, driving. You know, when I was, when I was training in medicine, would stay up all night all the time.

Totally.

I get huge anger issues and like, how come they didn't publish this paper? And how this is an innovation and how dare they? How dare they. And then one day I. This was now about five years ago, actually a little longer. So this was just pre pandemic. I was supposed to. I had a whole bunch of things at once. I was really angry. I was really up late at night. I was supposed to go on TV the next day. And I woke up with atrial fibrillation.

Oh.

At about 3:30. And I'm like, what is this all about? I had never had any sort of heart problem or any of that sucks.

It's really a bad feeling.

It is a horrible feeling. And you're wondering like, well, wait a minute. I mean, am I gonna just, am I going to have a heart attack? Because I just can't. I can't continue to have my ventricular response rate so high. And so when I chased down all the things and I talked to an excellent cardiologist who is a functional medicine cardiologist, Dr. Mimi Guarneri. She's fantastic. And so what it turned out was these things have to do with. Just like everything else, there's a beautiful network. And it has to do with your mineral status, it has to do with your potassium, your taurine, your magnesium. It has to do with your adrenaline and here's the interesting thing. It has to do with the fact that the left atrium is a couple of millimeters away from your esophagus. So anything that's causing gerd. Anything that's causing anything like that, or erosive esophagitis, if you're drinking things that are erosive to your esophagus.

Like alcohol.

Exactly. All of these things can contribute. And I realized, okay, if I keep going the way I am, you know, as the old Chinese proverb says, if you don't quit what you're doing, you're going to end up where you're going. And so I realize I can't do this anymore. I need to be more chill. And so I check my heart rate variability. And I realize, look, there's another great saying. This was actually from a rabbi who said, you are not expected to complete your life's work during your lifetime. Neither are you excused from it. W. And I thought, wow, that's a really good way to do it. So, look, we're just going to continue to get the data for as long as we can. We're not going to worry about it. We're going to continue to look at innovation, which is why I actually emailed you a couple days ago and said there are these holy grail changes coming that we really need to push through.

I will help you.

Thank you. This is an incredible time, and I'm not going to be here to see a lot of it, but I want to be here to get it started, and I want to be here to draw on. On the 50 years of neuroscience that I've been doing. There's so much excitement going on. I Wish I were 32, but I'm not. I'm 73, so I don't have that many more years. But however many I have, I want to continue to do this, and I feel much more positive about it than I did 10 years ago. Well, look, we're seeing people get better like never before in history. We're seeing, as I mentioned earlier, diseases that have been considered completely untreatable. We're seeing people get better. This is. This makes my day. You know, when I. When I hear these positive outcomes. And we've had now over 10,000 people go through the program now. Not everyone's gotten better. And I should hasten to add, when I say optional, I mean for people who start for prevention or early treatment. I'm not talking about people who are in dementia phase. Yeah, it's normal.

You can make them last longer and get better. Yes, but not, not all the way optional.

Exactly. So optional means you got to start early. Optional. Just like having a colonoscopy, that sort of thing.

Are you open to an observation?

Sure.

Eric Candel, Nobel Prize winner for discovering neuroplasticity. You're probably friends with him. Wouldn't surprise me. Came on the show when he was 94 and he's sitting in his lab in New York City overlook in Central park, absolutely fired up about the research he's doing. And, and he's 21 years older than you and he's not stopping anytime soon.

No, he's an amazing guy. Yeah, I was on a review session with him. Just an amazing guy and the stuff he's discovered about learning and memory mechanisms. Absolutely fascinating.

Well, if he can do it at 94, you are kicking ass for a 73 year old. Your face, your skin, your hair, your cognition, the brightness of your eyes, the way you move. You have at least another 20 years of focus, just hoping, active things. But you've accumulated 50 years of wisdom and you'll have 70 years and your mitochondria are still youthful.

That's the hope.

So I like, don't, don't be the elephant with a little fence there. I think you might have more time than you think and everything is speeding up because of a high and all the other things. So you might see the results of your work in the world sooner and bigger than you think when you're still here.

Here's hoping.

I, I wish that for you.

Thank you. Thank you, Dave. I really appreciate that. I know I've definitely hurt, you know, my, my lipids, you know, my hemoglobin, A1C, things like that because of, you know, a lifetime of not knowing this. There are definitely improvements to be made and, you know, I'm working on them now.

Well, do all of the advanced longevity things that support your brain. And I think, I think there's great hope for people who have done the basics already and are willing to just keep doing the work. And you clearly are, so thank you. It's remarkable. We talked about afib or atrial fibrillation.

Yeah.

So there's some interesting research about high melatonin levels. Now, melatonin is in all of your cells, your mitochondria. Do they make it or do they just make the energy and then use it? No, that's glutathione. Yeah. They do make melatonin directly.

Right.

So mitochondria make melatonin.

I was not aware of that. Okay.

I could be wrong. I'M pretty sure they do. But it's present in all the cells in your body.

Yeah.

You're secreting it.

Yeah, I just don't remember where it's manufactured. So for sleep, we know that, but it, it's an electrically important thing throughout the entire body.

Sure.

So some of the anti inflammatory stuff involves 50 milligrams, which is way more. You make 0.3 milligrams, 0.9 in the body. So I was ramping myself up just to try this. I try all this stuff and I started waking up with gaps in my aura ring. And your aura ring, when it's measured heart rate, if you have afib, there's gaps. And then I woke up one day really feeling that anxiety, stress thing. And it helps that I lived with an emergency room doctor who was another of my children at the time.

Time.

And I also have a little mobile device that measures your EKG called cardiac. So I measured. Oh, look, I do have afib. So she's. My wife's like, hey, let's, you should, you should drive to the hospital. And I'm like, are you going to come with me? And she's like, no, I'm busy. ER doctors are like that. So I went to the hospital and really horrible feeling of doom is what I would describe from that. And it passed within a little while. And I did some research and it turns out very large doses of melatonin can cause that. They don't always, but there's a substantial number of case reports of that. So for anyone listening, if you're doing melatonin suppositories and your aura ring is turning off at night and weird stuff's happening, maybe back off on the melatonin a bit. That's why I talk.

Yeah, great point. And this gets back to something you, you and I started to talk about earlier, which is performance and protection. And actually I wrote a book about this called the Ageless Brain. And the point of this is that.

Was after the end of Alzheimer's, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The age brainless came out this year.

Yeah.

Okay, cool.

And the whole point of this is, as we were talking about earlier, the intimate relationship between performance and longevity, that, you know, the things that improve your Alzheimer's also improve your cognition. And so the bottom line is everybody's pushing performance, but sometimes they're doing it at the expense of protection. Cocaine's a great example. You can get, look, you can get better performance and take some cocaine, but protection's not there. On the other hand, when you're Optimizing your lipid status, and when you're optimizing your ketone levels and all these things, you're getting both. You're getting performance and protection. And that is a critical piece to understand for longevity and for brain span.

My friend Mike Hoban, who's been on the show a long time ago, who's at the very first biohacking conference as sports trainer. Trainer, he said, you know, Dave, it's very early days of backing. He goes, I've figured out that, you know, everyone goes until they hit the wall. Right. With biohacking, you can move the wall out really far. Yeah, but that just means if you hit the wall, you're gonna be going really fast.

Yeah.

And so that's one of those things where recovery is more important than adding stress. And even some of the. The older thinking longevity doctors, like, if you just actually exercise 20 hours a week, you can have a health span and still die at 87. Like, that's not how it works. It's enough exercise stimulation or cognitive stimulation or even oxidative stress stimulation followed by recovery. And if we can stimulate harder, we can also recover harder. And that's why I'm opening a network of places around the country that allow you to recover faster. Upgrade labs. 80% of our tech is not put on muscle, or VO2 max will stimulate it. But then we put the body in a state of recovery so you can improve more quickly.

Interesting.

Like the ratio of stimulation to recovery to cause adaptation. It's not what people think. It's not all effort and a little recovery. It's mostly recovery and the right effort.

Yes.

What's the right effort to stimulate a brain to regrow or to become stronger and healthier.

That's a great point. And you know, this gets into hormesis. So what you're trying to do is you have to remember the system is meant to function in a certain way. You don't want to have, for example, square waves. This is not the way biology works. So what you want to do is you take it to the limit that it currently has, don't give yourself a heart attack, and then you go slightly beyond that. And that's why hiit has been so helpful. Hiit is the exercise most associated with reduction in in risk for Alzheimer's disease is hit because you're going beyond, but then you're giving plenty of time for recovery. And you're absolutely right. That has been an issue. So getting those neural stem cells supported, getting them pushed, what happens is people tend to push too hard now you're actually getting some damage that now you've got a more and you've got inflammation now, so you're hurting yourself. So you're absolutely right. So one of the things that comes up a lot when people do brain training, and we typically like to use brain HQ simply because there's more data behind brain hq. Again, it's about the data that actually works very well. Some people like others, that's fine. But when you do that, don't take it to the point that you're totally stressed out because then you're hurting your brain. So we had a number of people when I was a professor at UCLA that would come in for their. They were supposed to be followed longitudinally and they would say, no, I'm stopping the study because you guys are stressing me out too much. Because they would have four to six hours of neuropsych testing. You don't need to do that much.

That cooks you.

Exactly. So the key is to get a small amount of stress and then to allow, just as you said, the recovery.

It's funny, when it comes to brain training, I have 40 years of Zen, has been running for 10 years, which is a really intense neurofeedback personal development experience. My most recent book I published after 10 years of data on this, you know what, what's really working for permanently turning off sympathetic trauma responses for people. And in order to do that for five days, where they're doing not just testing, but they're doing feedback sessions equivalent to heavy meditation, I have to change their supplements, I have to change their diet, change their sleep, and they only do it for five days, followed by a lot of recovery. But if I don't feed them the right stuff, which includes ketones, then they can only do about a third of the training. So when we optimize the energy input status, they can do decades of meditation in five days. But if I don't feed them right, I don't support the mitochondria. They can't do it.

Yeah.

And we of course use recovery technologies and all this stuff.

Stuff.

And the results of that work after 10 years are just a theory of mitochondrial connections to our ego. And it became the number one bestselling philosophy and the number one bestselling meditation book in the country for a little while with Buddhist scholars saying, oh my gosh, this actually, this is why the science behind what we see. And I'm blown away because it was mitochondria. But I never would have known this if I wasn't pushing my own Brain beyond what it should do. And what would you suggest for say, young people during finals? Or maybe someone in their 40s or 50s who's flying around the planet with circadian stress and getting on a stage? What do we do to protect our brain in those situations?

Yeah, this is such a good point because many of us, most of the time, and when I was an intern and resident in medicine and then neurology, you know, you're doing horrible things to your brain, staying up all night repeatedly, and that is just not good for your brain. So again, it's small challenges. So, you know, get on there, see if you can remember longer lists, see if you can do, you know, whatever. There's lots of things to do. We pick up a new instrument, pick up a new language, challenge yourself. But when you get to the point that you're feeling, oh, this is stressful, you can even check your cortisol if you want, check your hrv. That's one thing that I find very helpful. And you can see, as, you know, you see huge differences just between, you know, before and after a minute of some square breathing, just basics, you can see improvements. So I would say, number one, try not to push it to the point of damage. Now, when you're young, it's easy to do that and you're not realizing that that is impacting you in the long term, long run. At the same time, don't under push it. So in other words, you want to have some stress to allow you to adapt to that. That's the way things work. Obviously, that's what working out your muscles is all about. But then also, you have to remember, if you're going to be a weightlifter, for example, you can't do that and be malnourished. It doesn't make sense. And so this is what's happening in the brain, brains with a lot of people, they say, well, look, I'm going to do a lot of brain training. Well, but wait a minute. Your BDNF is low, your NGF is low, your testosterone is low, your cortisol is high. So you know, your HSCRP is high. You're a mess. You shouldn't be trying to push that brain. So the idea is to get that supply optimized and then tweak it, get that hormesis going in there. And then, you know, people, there are all sorts of things as you know, photobiology, modulation, microcurrent, there are all sorts of things you can do to enhance that.

It reminds me of so many people, you know, I'm. I've got 40 extra pounds, I'm metabolically resistant. I think I'll run a marathon.

Yes. Yeah.

Like just make yourself old all at once, why don't you? Yeah, right. The other thing is, even with hit, which I've been recommending since my very first post, like this is superior to just going for a run.

Yeah.

Lately, especially with the advent of AI at upgrade labs, we use a, an AI bike with an algorithm that's personalized for each person called REHIT. And three studies now support the idea that reduced exertion hit. We're talking 20 seconds of effort twice over five minutes, and that's. It outperforms HIIT for VO2 max.

Really?

To the point that 15 minutes a week, week of REHT training and that's 15 minutes including the rest period. So literally 40 minutes, three times a day. We brush our teeth longer than that. Yeah, that, that will cause a 12% V2 max improvement in two months. But an hour a day of cardio will only cause a 2% improvement.

Wow, that is striking.

And what does VO2max do for Alzheimer's?

Yeah, so, so V2max is, is very important because it does show. Because again, a big piece of Alzheimer's is energetic support. Because if you don't have the support or if you've got too much drag, either one of those, you have to reduce your network size. So you're trying to support a large network and to do that you've got to have. It's just like if you've got a big company, you've got to have enough money to pay the paychecks.

Yeah. And you got to pay the electric bill too.

Exactly.

Right.

And so no surprise, in fact. So there was a very interesting study. They just looked at the mean spo2 during the night. So how saturated was your oxygen while you were sleeping? On average, that correlates beautifully with the size of your hippocampus and the size of other key nuclei within your brain. So you bring that down, you're bringing down those nuclei sizes, you know, you're bringing down your hippocampus. You bring that up, you're going to give yourself a better chance. So in fact, having that optimal is really, really important for your brain.

For men in particular. One of the biggest ways of knowing whether your brain is getting enough oxygen at night is the strength of your morning kickstand.

Interesting, right?

Because if you have enough nitric oxide, you have enough microcirculation, you're going to wake up like you did when you were 18. And if you wake up and there's nothing going on, you probably should do something biologically.

Yeah.

Or in your behavior set.

Yeah.

To restore microcirculation. And usually it's around nitric oxide. I've had a few different episodes. The guys who make arterosil make a really cool thing called Vascanox. And there's N101. And if you track your SBO2, you and you dial in your nitric oxide levels, you wake up and your brain's like, yes, like I had really vivid dreams. Your heart rate variability is higher and your morning kickstand is there. And women have the equivalent called a morning bean that no one talks about. I don't know if there's a better name for that, but so for listeners, if you're just saying, how do I know if my brain has enough? Well, your fitness Tracker might have SpO2. It's not great from fingers, to be honest, but it's better than, better than nothing. But if you wake up and the blood is where it should be be, you know, your hormones are halfway decent and you know your blood flow is good.

Yeah.

And for me that's like the, the free indicator that you're probably doing something right. Yeah, that seemed like good advice.

Absolutely. And, and so as you mentioned, nitric oxide is becoming a critical thing that so many people are thinking about. And we do see a lot of people in which the rate limiting step in their cognitive decline is vascular support.

Yeah.

And so as you mentioned, arteriosilic hp, one of the things that's very helpful in nitric oxide support and then also nattokinase, let's go deep on that.

Yes.

You know, basically there you are reducing the fibrin clots. And of course, especially for people who've had Covid and post Covid, one of the big problems with COVID is that it creates these micro thrombi throughout your heart, throughout your brain, throughout your other organs. And it's turned, it turned out that Covid was almost made to give. You don't know if it was made or not, but it might have been kind of obvious made to give you Alzheimer's. It triggers the inflammation, it triggers the reduction in blood flow, it triggers the long term immune activation. I mean, it's horrible. And in fact, there have already been publications showing that people who've had it are at increased risk for or a diagnosis of Alzheimer's within the subsequent year or so. So, so having these improvements, things like nattokinase, arterosil, nitric oxide can be Very, very helpful.

I feel fortunate that I was mentored by people much older than me. In my 20s. I have been taking serrapeptase, a million units, very high dose, every night for 25 years.

Yeah.

And serrapeptase is a silkworm enzyme.

Yeah.

It's not made from silkworms anymore, but it breaks up extra protein like scarring and all in the body. And it breaks up fibrinogen and thrombin. Not as strongly as nano kinase, but it does it. Especially those high doses.

Yeah.

And the research is now so good with Nano Kinase that 4,000 units a day will very likely break up all those clots that you would be getting with if you had Covid. Covid. And emerging research around it. Removing soft plaque, which is a dangerous plaque, as long as you get a big enough dose on an empty stomach. I did a clearly scan, which is one of. It's probably the only way to really visualize soft plaque throughout the body. Right. And what we found is after 15 years of eating very large amounts of butter and, and steak, grass fed steak. So most of my fat is saturated and monounsaturated with low doses of omega 6s. And that's by design. And I'm not saying everyone should do that. We know olive oil is good for you. I don't think only olive oil is good for you. I had no plaque accumulation except two spots in my heart had a small amount. And when I worked with a physician on that, she said, oh yeah, you had Covid twice. That's where the spike protein caused damage and that's a healing response. But, but the important thing is I didn't have systemic plaque after that. And I'm probably on the extreme of consumption of saturated fats.

Interesting.

And I, I do it because, well, there's some pathways and some membrane things and because I've experimented on my own biology and many different things and that pattern works really well for me. And I take my fish oil and I take all the fatty 50. I take all the stuff. Right?

Yeah.

And I just want people listening to understand nattokinase or maybe serrapeptase. But certainly nattokinase at higher doses is because it's thinning the blood but not increasing your risk of bleeding out. Thinner blood can get into smaller capillaries and your brain needs it. So is this one of those things that you would predict, I mean, I have studies would reduce the likelihood of Alzheimer's.

Yes, I would. We want to be as physiologically relevant as possible. That gives you the best long term outcome so it's eating the right food and doing their exercise and, and getting the right sleep and all that. But when we are in a situation where many people are on one side of the curve, then things that to bring them back to where the optimal is can be very helpful. And there was a wonderful study out of Korea a few years ago where they showed that 10,000 units a day did not increase risk of bleeding. And actually they could show beautifully disappearance of the plaque.

It really does go away day.

Yeah.

And it's cheap and you don't need a prescription.

Yeah.

So you can just order nattokinase. And if I had diffused plaque throughout my body and those two small spots are nowhere near blocking, they will go away over time with nattokinase as my, my vessels heal. But I would probably out of an abundance of caution and liking multiple pathways, I would mix serrapeptase, nattokinase and lumbrokinase.

Yeah.

And.

And what do you think about that for people into long term longevity and just having better vascular. Is there a reason to only use natto versus just take all three enzymes that clean up the system?

I don't know of any reason to just do one as opposed to three. You want to make sure again this is where knowing your genetics and you mentioned Intellix DNA and Sharon Hausman Cohn that you talk with her knowing what your status is. Where do you stand with respect to thrombosis? What is your factor V lighted and all the other clotting factors. One of the people in our first trial we published a few years ago which we showed clear reversal of cognitive decline. This was a guy that interestingly wasn't responding at the beginning and turned out that he would get on planes and get off in Europe and be confused. And it turned out out this guy had multiple genes for increased thrombosis and he responded beautifully to this triad that I just mentioned.

Interesting. I will find out from Sharon because I haven't had my full review of my intelligence DNA results.

Yeah.

But I do know that I've had low blood pressure for most of my life. Which. Okay, I'm not going to blow my kidneys out, which is good. Actually my kidney, I only have one, but born that way.

Way.

So low blood pressure though is a risk factor for Alzheimer's. In fact, it's a big one. Right.

But hypertension is the bigger risk for Alzheimer's.

But it needs to be in the middle.

Yeah. So again the key is you want to supply what is needed. So again finding out when you're high or low, finding out why. When we see people who have new increasing autonomic dysfunction, that typically is a tip off that they have some degree of MSA multi system. That's another synucleinopathy. So we now think in terms of what was your prion response? Was it a beta TAU? Was it TDP 43? Was it Alpha synuclein? There aren't that many that will tell you what are the things that were likely to be the insults. But it sounds like this has been your whole life.

Yeah.

In general, that's usually helping you unless you are passing out.

I have passed out many times. Times.

Okay, well, it's too low.

Yeah, yeah.

It's a. It's a form of pots.

And so you're treating the pots?

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And it's. It was life changing because brain fog goes away when you have enough blood pressure. In my case, it's not autonomic regulation. The unlimited life high end longevity program I'm doing with a medical doctor and another personal development leader we were meeting in Toronto yesterday actually, and we just measured my autonomic function using one of the electrical screening things and it was 79.

Wow.

And all the other four things. I was 99. So things are good. But my body doesn't make cortisol. My liver doesn't know how to do it because of the 17 progesterone dehydroxase or something.

Okay.

And so I just take cortisol the way most people take thyroid hormone.

So that's essentially genetic Addison's.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

And so I have had so many weird health problems that I'm the least likely person to live to 180. And I've managed the crap out of this stuff. So my markers are so good. We looked at my pulse wave velocity, which is another marker of arterials. I'm 31 years old on that scale.

Wow.

And like, this stuff works. But for 25 years I've taken the enzymes that keep my blood from doing bad stuff.

Yeah.

And it feels like we're right on the cusp with AI of being able to take all of your knowledge, those 250 papers and plug it into oh, Dale D A I L E Predison and just say, all right, based on all this stuff, what are the top three things that I could do right now at this age with these labs and to really be good at that? And I'm building that system based on my work in many of the episodes of the show as a part of the upgrade Labs thing, but fantastic. Are you feeling like your protocol, which has now been tested rigorously and 10,000 people can be turned into an AI?

Absolutely. And let me mention one other thing which is really critical. We have six sites where we're doing this and we found that four of them are getting. So now we look at each site separately. Four of them are getting spectacular results. Pretty much everybody. Everybody's getting better with more sun. So for the sites that just are doing it better, getting better outcomes with their cognitive trackers, the other two sites are not. And interestingly, we found one of the sites, it turned out that a person who was not trained, didn't have formal training in this protocol, was trying to do it and just clearly didn't know what they were doing.

Okay, yeah.

So that was kind of of. We were not made aware of that at the beginning, unfortunately. But the point is that there is a big difference as, you know, Dave doing it right and then following up. And I think this is where AI is going to be huge because we really understand the fundamental nature of these neurodegenerative conditions like never before. So now we can plug this in and say, okay, what went wrong in each of these sub networks and what are the things here are 10,000 people. Some of them got better, some of them didn't. Let's take these and let's find out what is driving this. It's not going to be simple. Likely there are going to be things to pick up, but this is exactly where AI is going to be so sensitive. It's going to pick up things that others will not.

Right now at Upgrade Labs, we get 187 million data points per year per member who comes in the normal amount of time.

Time, wow.

Including, you know, the power levels in different parts of the brain, including hemoglobin, binding and strength network, and just unimaginable amounts of data and have no idea what all things we're going to learn. But my whole goal is I would like people to spend less time improving themselves and get better results. And another data point 1 I wanted to ask you about. You mentioned oral health and the implications with Alzheimer's and with cardiacs stuff. You didn't mention that, but it's a risk factor huge. I've been working with VIOME for eight or so years. Jane's a friend, he's a board member at Upgrade Labs and he announced at my biohacking conference that they are at the very last stages of getting approval for VIOME to predict stage one pancreatic cancer. Wow. And they already can do oral and, and throat cancer. This is from mitochondria, from blood and oral bacteria and poop bacteria, like into the system and exit from the system that it's so predictive.

Wow.

And I'm wondering if you've ever talked to them, because I think with the amount they have a million people's data of like, what's going on, all these different networks, I'm wondering if you've ever talked to them about doing an Alzheimer's prediction model based on that.

You know, it's been years, so I talked to him, him many years ago. But, you know, things happen. Yeah, they're doing their stuff, we're doing our stuff. And so we kind of lost track. So it's time to reinitiate, reintroduce you.

Because it's the biggest data set that I know of. And when you mention oral bacteria, I know they can predict your blood sugar response to different foods, predict diabetes before it happens. I don't think that's clinically, like, that's not a study that they'll sell, but I know they can do it. So there's all this data stuff and I feel like, like I'm already excited. I have 250 papers and you know, you've cracked the code on Alzheimer's and I don't care like what lobbying group for the existence of Alzheimer's says or not. You've done this and it's abundantly clear and you've done it for 10,000 people. So we actually know that it's really like it's predictive. There's a mechanistic model, it works and you can repeat it. So this, this is mana from heaven. Yeah, that's the slow way of doing it. AI is going to make it so much faster. So I'm, I'm intrigued. And so I'll make that reintroduction, if it's helpful, so there's more data that can support your work and.

Absolutely.

I, I think this is some of the most important because Dale, I'm a longevity and a consciousness guy.

Really.

Biohacking gets people onto those two paths. And in the longevity world and in my book, I'm like, okay, what are the four things that are going to kill you? Number one is diabetes, AKA mitochondrial dysfunction and metabolic resistance. All that which is a precursor to cancer, cardiovascular disease and Alzheimer's. If you can just avoid those four things, you're probably going to live a very long time and be conscious and happy the entire time. And if you don't avoid those things, you won't live as long and you'll feel like crap for 20 or 30 years before the end of your life. And that's not okay.

Yeah.

Right. So your work in Alzheimer's, it stands out, I mean, in a incredible way, as someone has tracked these things for a long time. I know anyone who's just so relentlessly pursued it over the course of a decade, to the point that anyone who looks at this amount of research and says, that cannot be, therefore it isn't, we know who they're working for.

Yeah.

And, you know, isn't it interesting that people have continued to look at what one thing. Oh, a protein misfolded. Oh, you have reactive oxygen, oxygen species, you know, oh, it's diabetes of the brain. It's all of these things. But you have to understand the model. Once you kind of get, ah, this is what this is all about. Now you can write your program. Now you can say, oh, these are the things. So we now want to capture these things. Before, the problem was you didn't know what to capture.

Yes.

So people would say, can you make a better antioxidant? That's not good enough. It's not just that, or as you mentioned earlier, insulin in your nose, it doesn't work that well. There's a trial on it called the sniff trial. It failed. Oh, it failed. It failed.

It does increase cognition for short periods of time.

Yes. But in terms of actually helping Alzheimer's, it didn't give you much because it's just part of the story. There's a really interesting drug, duvunatide, that was tried. This is a fragment of adnp, which is a very potent neurotrophic factor. It makes a lot of sense. I love that drug. But what did they do?

Can I take some?

Well, I don't know. Today you probably could. It's one of the peptides. But they tried it as a monotherapy with nothing else. Okay. It's just like bringing in every car and saying, we're going to fill up every car with gas. Yeah. Some of them it's going to help when they've stopped running, but a lot of them, it's going to be something else. It's not always the same thing. So now that we have a better understanding of this whole process, as you said, we've got a predictive model. Now the AI can really go crazy.

One of the untested assumptions behind a lot of science, even in universities and certainly at big pharma companies, is the unproven assumption that one variable is the cause of something.

Yes.

And I like to say if Pfizer was out there doing some research on bread.

Yeah.

They would say, well, we baked the yeast, we baked the flour, we bake the salt. There is no bread.

Yeah. Yeah.

Right. And you're like, well, what makes you think there's only one ingredient in the bread? And it turns out it's the right set of ingredients over the right period of time, mixed the right way and with the right pauses and then the right temperature, and then you get crusty sourdough.

Yes. Right.

We've got to break that paradigm. Nothing in biology is one variable other than maybe physics.

Yeah.

Like, if you go through your windshield, I think we can predict that one pretty well. But almost even then, you know, what angle did you hit the windshield at? Like, there's so much. And so in my world, I don't even care about single variables.

Yeah, right.

I only care about sets of variables that are going to move a network. It's like herding sheep. Like, what's the one thing that herd sheep? There isn't. There's all kinds of. Kinds of things.

Yeah.

And. And so you and I, even though we're pretty knowledgeable, we're not going to see everything, but with the amount of data that we can collect and the real time data and then the lab data and the performance data, I've never been more excited about our ability to change our state.

Yeah.

So that when you're old, you're like, no, I'm. I'm just wise, but I'm still full energy and now I can really do something.

Yeah.

And it'll allow you to. To collect much more data for sure. So last week, first. I've seen thousands of patients with cognitive change now, but I've never seen one who had only one contributor. There's always some metabolic dysfunction, some toxicity, there's some inflammation, there's some gut problems. There's all this stuff I finally saw last week. Very interesting guy, really smart guy who has beautiful mri, classic mci. There's no question he's got abnormal electrophysiology. Something is wrong. But you go after test after test after test, and I was like, this guy must be following Dave Asprey. He looks pretty good. You know, all these things. And then guess what? Finally his mycotoxin study.

Oh, yeah.

And they are off the charts. So he may be the first person I've ever seen who just has one thing that is really driving his cognitive. We'll see. See, we're still waiting for the rest of his test. But he's had a lot of it done, and he's in great shape in many, many ways.

I've come across a few people that way, where we can say it's a primary cause. And even then, which of the 200 different mycotoxins is it and which part of the brain is it? And then do we have to clear it or can we just upregulate the mitochondria and all of it the variable to fix it? Even so, I really think there's an implication to what you're saying that that is so important, especially for listeners of this show. If a lack of performance or an accelerated aging or your brain going the wrong way, if it's caused by lots of things, you don't have to fix them all.

Yes.

Right. This is the gift.

Right.

It means you need to fix enough of them to move the network in the right direction. So perfection. Infection is not required. Because I see so many people, they're like, okay, I'm tired because my mitochondria are cooked, or I have brain fog. I can't remember anything because I got mold toxins or Alzheimer's or dementia, whatever. It's too much. And then we just go away. Pick three, fix those, and then you get 20% energy back, and then you pick another fourth and fifth. So don't. You don't have to do everything to fix a multivariate problem. You just have to do enough.

Exactly.

Yeah. So this can create, like, a sense of. Of peace and relaxation and just. I can do this.

Yeah.

Which sometimes is lacking.

And you are changing the network function. And everybody knows you don't go in to fix a network and take a hammer and smash one thing. It doesn't work that way. You're tweaking this, you're tweaking that, You're. You're improving all these things. And then the network starts to function much better.

It's a fascinating time to be a brain person.

It is.

And I. I am so appreciative of your work in the field.

Field.

All the tens of thousands of Alzheimer's researchers out there, as far as I've been able to see, and pretty active in the field. I don't know anyone that has reversed the number of people that you have. Is that accurate?

We were the first to do it. And we were the first, by the way, to publish over 10 years of sustained improvement that's freely available online as well. That was another big issue. If you reverse it for nine months and then it goes even other way, that's not good. We've had people now over basically the first ones that I tried, I mentioned earlier before we started Judy, you can see her on judywalks.org Love it. The very first patient I treated, April of 2012, she is still doing well. She reversed her cognitive Decline. She's now 81, and she is walking from the Pacific Ocean to the Atlantic Ocean. Ocean. And she just passed the halfway point. And she was in Austin yesterday, met with the mayor. And it is Dr. Judy Benjamin Day in Austin yesterday.

Wow.

Very cool.

You know, if I was not in Toronto for Unlimited life, I would have met with her as well. And this was your first patient?

Very first one and patient zero.

And how bad was her Alzheimer's?

At the beginning, she was in. In the kind of mid MCI stage, scared to death. And of course, we had just been turned down to do our first trial because it was too complicated. You just have to do one thing. And we were saying, but that's not the way the disease works. Look at the biology of this disease. And so she had been a CIA agent and was sent to me because her doctor had told her that she had the same thing her mother did. Her mother had passed away. And it was as, you know, it's horrible. You're in a nursing home and you can't remember your family. It's horrible. And she had watched this. And so she said, I'm not going the way my mother did. So she was saving pills to commit suicide. And she was on the East Coast. Her doctor had already told her, forget it. And at that time, she was having problems with things, like she would get lost driving, stuff like that. So she wasn't dementia phase, but she was the third of four. And so a friend called me up and said, would you see this person? I said, look, we're dealing with transgenic mice and cells. We do basic research. I don't see patients anymore. But look, as a favor, I'm happy to talk to her. So we spent two and a half hours going through. I said, look, this is weird. And she's like taking notes because she couldn't remember anything. I said, take this back to your doctor on the east coast and just see. I frankly thought I would never hear from her again. But because she was. She was diligent, she had attention to detail, she actually did these things. She went back three months later. She called me at my home on a Saturday morning and said, I can't believe it. My memory's better than it's been in 20 years. I'm doing Great. I'm back at work full time. Everything's great. And she has stayed now 13 years and doing great. So it's so great to see people who improve. And at the same time, it really kills me when someone does.

Well, I'm gonna do something now. New York Times has covered my work lots of times, usually positively. I've been a New York Times bestseller. But guys, at the New York Times, even if you never write about me again because I do this, that's okay. Could you just double check the piece you just did on Dale's work? Because if you listen to this episode and you look at his research, what you did was a mistake and it wasn't fair there. So I'm asking listeners now in the comments, just tag at NY Times so that they can pay attention to it. And this isn't saying the New York Times is bad. It's a great newspaper. What I'm saying is you guys made a mistake and I understand you have financial incentives to talk about some things versus others. This is a time where for the greater good and for truthfulness in journalism, even though we have corporate parents, we all do. Do another piece on Dale. Like let's get this right. So guys, tag the New York Times, tell them to make it right. And Dale, appreciate it. Got your back. I am so appreciative of your work and the 10,000 people who don't have Alzheimer's or have much less of it because of you are just the very beginning. There will be hundreds of millions because of your work.

I hope so.

Yeah.

Thanks so much, Dave. I really appreciate the invitation. Always enjoy talking to you. You these are great times of great progress.

If you like today's episode, you know what to do. Should leave a review or pick up some danger coffee or maybe just don't get Alzheimer's. See you next time on the Human Upgrade Podcast.

The Human Upgrade, formerly Bulletproof Radio, was created and is hosted by Dave Asprey. The information contained in this podcast is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended intended for the purposes of diagnosing, treating, curing or preventing any disease. Before using any products referenced on the podcast, consult with your healthcare provider carefully read all labels and heed all directions and cautions that accompany the products. Information found or received through the podcast should not be used in place of a consultation or advice from a healthcare provider. If you suspect you have a medical problem or should you have any healthcare questions, please promptly call or see your healthcare provider. This podcast, including Dave Asprey and the producers, disclaim response for any possible adverse effects from the use of information contained herein. Opinions of guests are their own and this podcast does not endorse or accept responsibility for statements made by guests. This podcast does not make any representations or warranties about guest qualifications or credibility. This podcast may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products or services. Individuals on this podcast may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to herein. This podcast is owned by Bulletproof Media.