"How Do You Know If You're Focused On The Right Priorities" | Ask Dave Kashen

How do you know if you're focused on the right priorities? Um, suppose this question could be coming from a place of doubt. Yeah, for sure, for sure. I was thinking through the answer. Um, so first and foremost, I was thinking about that like scene from Alice in Wonderland where she's like, which way do I go? And it's something like, well, where are you trying to get to? And she's like, I don't know. Well, then any road will do. So that's poorly paraphrased. So it starts with like having a clear vision for where you're trying to get to, because it's hard to align your priorities with your vision if you don't have a clear vision. So that, that's the first thought I have is, yeah, the clearer you are about where you're trying to end up, And one of the challenges I see with clients on that is it's a little bit in the way you worded your question, like trying to come up with the right vision or even the right priorities, as opposed to like, like I've been using this distinction a lot with clients of like the right answer versus the answer that feels right. And to me, feels right is actually more useful because like the right answer, first of all, is generally unknowable. And generally the— it's more coming from, you know, like it's coming from below lines, coming from ego, it's coming from fear. It's like, oh, what's— yeah, as if life is like a quiz and you got to get it right. Um, and generally when we're sort of below the line, I'll just say, we are more concerned with being right than being kind of open and curious and experimenting and finding the path. So sometimes that question comes from this place of like, I need to know the right answer. And, you know, there's this funny dynamic where founders often think they should know something that they don't know. So inherent in that question is often like, I should know with certainty what are the right things to focus on. I don't feel a sense of certainty. So now I doubt my own intuition and discernment around what I think would be best to focus on or even what I want to focus on given my goals. And this is a big— Joe Hudson makes this distinction of like should versus want. It's a big distinction that I see a lot of founders struggle with, where the whole thing is like, okay, what should my vision be? Like, you know, what's like the right thing? Maybe because they're overrelying on their intellect or they're overly looking for external validation. So it's like, what's the right thing to build? And therefore, what's the right priorities to go build that? All of that is like sort of like playing someone else's game versus like, what's the vision that you're most inspired, that feels like most authentic for you to create through your company? And then given that vision, like, what, what priorities— I'd say maybe it's a Venn diagram intersect of like, feel aligned with that vision and light you up, you're excited to focus on, and That's probably the most counterintuitive one. Like, why should I care whether I'm excited about it or not, or whether, like, I authentically want it or not? From my experience, a couple things happen. One, one is the obvious of the more in, you know, enlivened and excited you are about a particular thing, the more likely you are to do it and to do it well, because you're bringing your full energy, right? If you have, like, two possible paths and one you're excited about and one feels like the thing you should do, you're probably going to do the one you're excited about with more, you know, you'll be more motivated, you'll do it better. And there's this even less intuitive phenomenon which I see a lot, which is there's some way that our, our, I don't know, our systems have wisdom that our intellect hasn't yet caught up with. So that like, if we follow it, like we can then see in hindsight, you know, why that served us. Like I'm thinking of an example where, you know, a company that really let, well, I think it was Valve. So this is an interesting example. You know, they let the, they let their employees kind of vote with their chair. So basically as a team member, you could go work on whatever you most wanted to work on and you could change at any moment, right? It's very different than the way most companies operate. So literally if you're like, ah, I'm kind of starting to get bored of this project, or it was a game company, game, you know, game development. So like this game isn't interesting. And what they found was there was a really high correlation between the games people were excited to work on and the ones that were successful. So like the, the, I think a similar phenomenon happens that the reason you're excited about it often is like there's something we sense about its likelihood of success. And also just authenticity, right? Like if you're excited about it, it's probably 'cause it feels right to you, right? It feels like your authentic thing to do. So even if another thing makes more sense intellectually, strategically, if you're not excited about it, it's probably not authentic for you. And the good news as a leader is that that doesn't mean it can't happen, right? If you think it's really important for the business, but you get to delegate it, right? And it may, you know, I have a lot of my clients, you know, I really encourage them to think about their part of their hiring strategy is what are the things that you're spending time on or you think the business needs that you actually don't wanna do. And I think that's a totally valid way to think about hiring is, well, I want to spend my time on this stuff, literally just want to, I'm excited to, I'm lit up by this stuff. This other stuff I think is important and needs to happen. Great, well then apparently you need to go hire someone who's great at that and for whom that's their zone of genius. So, and by the way, zone of genius is a part of this discussion. I think we've talked before about the four zones and a lot of people get stuck in their zone of excellence where they're doing things that they are— you have learned to be really great at, but they're not lit up by, they're not energized by. And, I really challenge my clients to spend the vast majority of 70% or more of their time in their zone of genius. And, a lot of people don't believe that's possible. So, there's this limiting belief that like, well, The stuff that's really valuable is the stuff that feels hard, as opposed to like, well, I, I love talking to clients, I could do that all day, but, you know, driving the product development, like, that feels hard, so therefore that must be more valuable. Like, that's bullshit, you know? Like, if you love talking to clients, you can design your role. And in particular, CEO role is amorphous enough that you can kind of design it to your strengths. So you could design your particular CEO role around, in this example, you know, outward facing, talking to clients, you know, obviously you're gonna focus on the biggest, highest, you know, highest leverage, highest value clients. You'll learn a lot, et cetera. And then you maybe hire a COO to handle the operations or an amazing head of product, you know, to drive product, et cetera. So instead of like with your intellect thinking what's the right priorities, I think of like what are the things you really want to work on that are in alignment with the vision of the company And then part of your priorities becomes if there are gaps then in the company where the things you've been working on that need to happen, you no longer want to work on, well then spend some time on hiring. And by the way, I mean post— especially post-product market fit, which is most of the clients I work with— really your primary job is about other people. It's about building the team. Recruiting, aligning the team, making sure their direction is clear. So that's also, you know, often the highest and best use of your time as the leader as you're scaling is ensuring other people are spending their time in the, you know, most aligned way, which by the way, includes that they're spending time in their zone of genius on things that light them up, that you have the right people in the right roles. That are like excited and loving what they're doing, not just that they're doing the things that matter for the company. So, you know, past a certain point, that becomes— that generally becomes the highest priority thing to be doing. Um, but again, the CEO role is, is fairly, uh, malleable. So if you're like, I really don't like recruiting or even managing people. Like I've seen CEOs then, okay, well then you need to hire people who are extraordinary at those things and then just carve and design your role slightly differently. But generally the CEO at least needs to lead their leadership team. And that becomes kind of what's primary is making sure your leadership team that's running the company is, You know, that you're creating the conditions for them to, to do their best work in collaboration with each other. I had once heard a CEO say he tells his team, like, use my head as the battering ram and my body as a shield, which I thought was funny. But, you know, it's really about unlocking your team versus kind of your own individual contribution.

Nice.

So it's almost like instead of— it's almost like the priority, instead of you choosing it, it's like it chooses you in terms of excitement, uh, I guess for the like direction of the company. And I see what you're saying in terms of the like— it's like a pithy way of saying it. I don't know if that's how I'd say it, but, um, I guess the way I would say it is you're, is you're choosing it from your whole body, I guess, not just like intellectually what you think is the right thing to do, but what, you know, when you like feel your intuition, your heart, like, uh, yeah, I guess you're letting your own, your energy guide you as much as your intellect. So like, do you feel energized when you think about doing that? So it's like, maybe that's a way to say it's like not just your intellect, but like follow your energy. Um, like, it's so much— I trust my energy more than my intellect. I'm like, I don't know why, but when I think about doing that, I feel really energized. So like, it's like follow flow, right? Um, a little like, where's the river trying to take you? Maybe that's what you mean by it chooses you, versus, you know, you're just trying to like get get it to go. There's a metaphor another coach, Brian Franklin, told me of being a sailboat captain versus a motorboat captain. Like, motorboat captain is like, "I'm going here. I don't care, you know, smelly, loud engine. I'm just gonna get it to here." And like, you can do that, but like, it has this toxic residue. You run outta gas. Whereas like sailboat captain, you know, You gotta kind of feel where the wind's trying to, you know, where the wind's blowing, and then, and then you can kind of tweak things a little bit to make, to, you know, harness the wind, but, and the, and the currents, right? Um, but you're, it's much more like you're, um, leading in harmony with where things are going rather than just trying to like force your will onto it entirely. And some of that like in this case, the wind, the current is more your internal like current of like, I don't know, for whatever reason I feel really excited about this thing. And maybe you don't realize until you like connect the dots in hindsight afterwards, oh, that's why I was so excited about that. Like, I don't know, this example keeps coming to mind of like company where like the developers really wanted to play with this new cutting edge, I forget what it was, you know, programming language. And, you know, the leader just like, okay, like, just let him. And then that turned, you know, it ended up being that was like skating to where the puck was going because, you know, mobile became a big thing and they, all these developers had got up to speed ahead of others on like how to code for mobile. And so they were ahead of the curve on mobile. So like, can you trust that like, ah, people have energy for this thing, they must be sensing something that's unfolding.

Can I ask you a question on that? Can you hear me? Um, when you, when you're saying these things, I feel more energized. I'm just thinking about things that I'm excited about, but the thought comes in my head, maybe it's just John Whiting in my head, he goes, yeah, but that's the girl in the red dress, Matrix. It's like the shiny object syndrome.

Yeah.

Um, so how do you discern between girl in the red dress versus kind of this, you know.

Yeah, the, the, um, yeah, people ask this question around like, like whole body, you know, whole body yes. How do you follow your whole body yes? And right, if you're, if you're, or I guess a better way to ask, if you're pursuing your wants, what's the distinction between like hedonistic, you know, or like, um, distraction versus, uh, yeah, exactly. Authentic wants, um, as I'm defining it, I guess. So authentic wants come from your authentic self. Um, the woman in the red dress, that kind of want tends to come more from ego. So, so let's unpack that distinction. Um, your ego self believes that there's there's like a void, like there's something missing. And so it's trying to fill that void with external things, whether that's validation, right? Okay, if I, if I get this girl, that means that I'm hot shit, or that means that I'm attractive. And so I can feel better about myself, feel more valued, right? So there's a, there's like a something missing, like I'm not valuable enough, but I need If I can sleep with this girl, then I'll feel more valuable. Or if I could get this prize, I'll feel more valuable. So, those are more like the ego wants is their compensatory ego fixations like I need to get this money in order to feel whole, to feel valued, to feel safe, to feel free. So, that's a good way. If there's some sense you have that there's a lack and you're trying to fill the lack, with something, um, that's probably not an authentic want the way I mean it. Um, and, um, one thing that's just, just practically is, is just to ask, like, is this an authentic one or is this like a strategy? Where this is a little bit off of the leader prioritizing, so we can come back to that, but just to, um, but they may intersect. Um, but I like distinguishing between like, is this a strategy for how to meet an authentic want, or is this an authentic want, right? So like, okay, I want the woman in the red dress. Okay, that's probably a strategy. What's the strategy for? It's a strategy for feeling valuable and attractive. Okay, so what I really want is to feel valuable and attractive. And what will that give me? Okay, if I feel valuable, yeah, I'll just have that like, I don't know, warm feeling inside and I'll feel like, you know, confident or something. And then you can start to— the only way you can know that you want that is because you can feel it. So, you know, practically all clients, just could you feel that now, that sense of confidence, that sense of like magnetism, right? Where in your body do you feel it? Notice it's already here. So the, the wanting always has the seed of the wanting in it. Um, this is another thread. There's this Tara Brach, um, process she calls RAIN. It's like recognize, allow, investigate, nurture. So like, I did this recently around money. I'm like, okay, I noticed this, I keep having this sense of like I need more money. If I just had more money, then I, then I would feel more free. Free, mostly free to be authentic, free. Like, I don't have to do things I don't want to do. And I was like, okay, so, okay, I can recognize that one. And then I even, I can recognize some judgment, self-judgment around that one. Like, what the fuck, Dave? You should be more enlightened than that, you know? Money still? Like, what, that's still an issue? So I, so I allow First the want, and then I allow the shame and judgment around the want. And then she's like, now you do a U-turn and investigate and like trace it back to its source. So it's like, okay, what— so freedom, like I really want that feeling of freedom. How do I know? What even is that feeling? Like, ah yeah, it feels like really expansive in my body. Feel the sense of like unconstricted. And it's like, oh shit, I can feel that now already. It's already here. So like, how much is the wanting for the thing actually what's getting in the way of just recognizing that it's already here? Um, so woman in red dress, you know, same thing, right? You just kind of trace that back to like, oh, I want that, that feeling of aliveness, you know, that I think I would feel. Okay, I have that. Already? And then, can you just nurture that feeling? So then, from a place of wholeness, and the question is, "Now, what do you want?" And then, it becomes a much lighter just like, "I don't know. I don't know why. I just want to do this thing. It seems like a fun thing to do. I want to go, I don't know, impact a million lives." And how? "I want to write a book." It's not because that's the right way to do it.

It's just like, "I don't know.

I just want to. I feel excitement around that." Mm-hmm. So, and there were times where I run and wanted to write a book that was more like, because that I need to do this so that I— people will know who I am. And, you know, so it's really subtle, like when you're coming from like your authentic self versus when it's more of like a, like a filling a void or a lack.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Whenever it comes from that place as well, the void or lack is tends to just bring more lack and more void as well.

Well, yeah, especially because it's, it's the whole— it's an illusion, right? Like, it's like a hungry ghost. And more, more precisely, um, if you really believe that, like, once I have this, then I'll feel that, and then you get the thing and you don't feel it, what we tend to do is go, oh, I— maybe my bar was too low. I need more money to feel that, you know. And then, fuck no, that's still not enough, right? That's how the— that we get into those spirals and like addiction spirals of like, I guess this wasn't enough of that, I must need even more of it, right? Until you see through the illusion that it's not already here, you're going to keep playing that external game.