A Man's Guide to Staying Faithful | Male/Female Hour

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On today's episode of Timeless Wisdom.

Guys, how can you control your sexual natures?

I live in Colorado Springs. I'm often up in grad school in Boulder where women proliferate, proliferate. And, uh, every chance I get, I talk about my wife. I brag about her. I tell That's great.

That's great. That is a terrific, terrific idea.

That's coming up on Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager.

Life can be messy, but you don't have to figure it out alone.

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Welcome to Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Hear thousands of hours of Dennis's lectures, courses, and classic radio programs. And to purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles, go to dennisprager.com.

I'm old-fashioned. I like 2 sexes. Then another thing, all of a sudden I don't like being married to what is known as a new woman. I want a wife, not a competitor. Competitor!

Competitor!

Talk about it a bit, this crying in the morning thing, this depression, you know? Let's get that fixed.

That's what men think, isn't it?

What?

Unless you've got the answer, unless you can say, oh, I know this bloke in the Essex Road who could fix that, then there's no point bothering. How do you write women so well?

I think of a man, and I take away reason and accountability.

I love him. I love him, and I don't care what you think. I love him for the, for the man he wants to be, and I love him for the man that he almost is. What do people have rows about today?

Money, sex, sex, money.

He wants, she doesn't want. She wants, he doesn't want? Women have always been a big problem to me, Dr. Fussbender. Are you listening, Doctor?

Yes, yes, yes, go on, go on.

I smile through each I listen to the opening of the Male-Female Hour as if it's the first time I've heard it. That's how good it is. You're listening to the Dennis Prager Show, the Male-Female Hour, which takes place every week at this time, this hour of the program, the second hour of the show on Wednesdays. Hi everybody, I'm Dennis Prager. Thank you for being with me. And I am about to embark on another risky venture. You know, it's so interesting. We think we're in it, we're in an open age. Everything, you know, everything hangs out, you know. No, there are no taboos. It's baloney. Baloney. Truth is the biggest taboo. It continues to be, and especially about male sexual nature. Uh, it is, it is. There's— I actually believe they were more open about male sexual nature in the, in the so-called puritanical 1950s than today. I, I just look at the reactions to things that I have written on the internet and the websites that have just skewered me and called me every— and really called me horrible names and questioned my own sexuality and my— not to mention, forget my integrity. I mean, you know, I'm surprised I haven't been accused of being really a female. Oh no, they wouldn't do that because I had to be a male chauvinist, but that they didn't use. Anyway, to embark on the journey of telling the truth about male nature is, or even just male-female nature being different, is a hazardous task today. It doesn't bother me. I'm just telling you what is the case. This will be another example this show, and I'm debating whether or not it matters. Well, I guess if your kid is under 10, This wouldn't be appropriate. But certainly, early teenage on, I think it is appropriate. It is something that every man grapples with. And I want to talk to you today about the very, very, very touchy, complex question of men controlling their sexual natures and advice to men on this matter. Men may want to call in, women may want to call in too, on giving advice. Don't call in until I say a few words. And then please feel free to, because your input here will be very important to me. And certainly as I write my book on male sexuality, which we took a vote among, among my, my peers, and it was unanimous. Write the bloody book, Dennis. With no smiles, just adamance. And that's, that's what I'm working on. Okay. In order to set the stage for what I want to address, I have to begin with certain premises. If you reject these premises, then clearly this will be meaningless. But if you reject these premises, you are rejecting reality. The vast majority of men— and the proof that this is true and not societally induced is homosexuals. Gay men have the exact same problem as straight men.

Okay.

And that is, we are— we men Our sexual nature is variety-oriented. It has nothing to do with love of the women in our lives. It's nothing to do with our values. Values are values. Nature is nature. We'll talk about values momentarily. But right now, the fact is male nature is variety-oriented. Another body. It, no matter how much he is in love, it has nothing to do with whether he loves his wife. And therefore women should never take it personally because it's, it's, it's, it's as objectivizing as exists. Males, uh, gay men, uh, want another male body and straight men want another female body. And that's, that's it. That's, that's the given. That is the way men are made. That I have to even assert this gives you an idea of how alienated from reality much of college education is. When I wrote in my, in my 2-part column, I wrote in passing that men have a battle with fidelity most days of their lives. And you— oh God, the anger, the vitriol that was poured on me on the internet. And you could certainly look it up. It's very easy to see. It was just astonishing because I asserted a truth. That is denied at universities when kids are brainwashed into an imaginary world as opposed to taught about the real world. In the real world as opposed to the imaginary world, that is what males are made like. If your man denies this to you, he is either different from nearly all other males or lying. There is no, there's no third possibility. Why would he lie? Because he is afraid to say to you, because he feels it might hurt you. It shouldn't hurt you. It's, it's, it's, it's just part of what he is, any more than, uh, than, than other parts of our nature that both men and women have to grapple with should hurt anybody. Nature is nature, but behavior is behavior. And then I get the argument, well, you're justifying men Uh, men having extramarital affairs? No, I'm not. In fact, the whole point of this hour will be how not to have an extramarital affair. That's the whole point of this hour, guys. How can you control your sexual natures? Now, having set up the premise number one, that male sexual nature is variety-oriented and it has nothing to do with love, Let me also set another premise here, that I'm talking about the average good marriage, or the average marriage that is good. I am not talking about utterly dysfunctional marriages where sexual relations have essentially died, where there is great animosity, where the only reason people are staying together is quote unquote for the kids, Or out of inertia or out of fear for their economic future. I'm talking about a basically functional marriage, and I'm talking about married men. Obviously, why non-married men would control their nature enters solely into the realm of values, and I'm not talking just values here. I'm talking about keeping a marriage together and about the guys working on their nature. By the way, even a single guy should work on his nature because otherwise you become Hugh Hefner. and lead a life which is a joke. I mean, it is. I know that Hugh Hefner is adored in parts of our culture. He is by all reckoning a sweet guy. I don't believe he's a mean guy or anything like that, but I, as a man, I regard his life as lampooning becoming a man. His latest is with 2 19-year-old sisters I mean, folks, it becomes after a while a sick joke. It is not cute, it is not sexy, it is not funny, it is pathetic. That's the way most men look at it. Some men are envious, but most men think the guy looks pathetic. Be that as it may, every man has to therefore grapple with the question of of how does he control his variety-oriented sexual nature. And I'm addressing this to married men in a decent— not necessarily great, just decent— marriage. Okay, let's have a drum roll as we begin with suggestion number 1. Suggestion number 1: On a guy controlling— married man controlling his sexual nature. And there are a number of suggestions, and they're not even necessarily in order of importance. The first one sounds so trivial and so simple as some of you will scratch your heads. This, this is what I tuned in for? This simple piece of advice? Folks, this simple piece of advice Saves lives. And this is probably one of the best pieces of advice in general to keep out of trouble. I can't think of a better piece of advice. Stay busy. Kids are not raised any longer with aphorisms. They used to be, right? We were told things all the time when we were kids. Here was one: idle hands are the devil's workshop, or the devil's playground. That's considered corny. The '60s rejected all wisdom and therefore produced the dumbest generation in American history. But this is a truism, guys. Busier you are, whether it's fixing cars or what have you. I'll explain and give you more recommendations when we come back.

This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

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Now, back to more of Dennis Prager's timeless wisdom.

Hi everybody, Dennis Prager here. This is the Male-Female Hour. Each week, second hour of my show is devoted to honest talk about men and women. And today it is some heartfelt advice to guys on how to work on their sexual nature, which is variety-oriented, and therefore stay faithful when they are married. And obviously I'm not talking about values. Of course one has the values. I'm, I'm talking about, I'm talking about how even when you have the values, You can help yourself in this arena. Just common sense suggestions. These are never given, of course. You'll never get a course in college on this. Rather, in college they will teach you that men and women have the same exact natures and same, therefore, tendencies to stray. It is pathetic. It's pathetic, the non-wisdom at the universities. And we are reaping what we have sown with a very confused generation, namely the baby boomers and the ones that they teach. So number one, guys, as trivial as it sounds, and now I welcome calls, by the way, is 1-800-PRAGER-776. 1-800-PRAGER-776. Number one, stay busy. Develop hobbies, for example. Every minute that you're spending fixing a car engine, if you love cars, is a minute that you are not out there looking at the women. It's very simple. Every minute that you're devoted to a musical instrument or to, I don't know, to anything, woodwork, volunteering, whatever it is, you've kept busy. And the more busy, the less time you have to fool around, or even for that matter, imagine fooling around. Busy is critical. I weep when I think about the hours that the average American spends in front of the television set, which almost by definition means doing nothing. It is bad for so many reasons. And this is only one of them. After all, the TV is so filled with sexual stimuli in any event. It's the opposite of fixing a car engine. If your husband's out in the garage working on a car, you're pretty guaranteed that at that time he's not getting into trouble. Number 2 recommendation. to a married man is to be with your wife as much as possible. Now, I'm assuming that you like being with your wife. If you don't like being with your wife, you have other issues, and a lot of people don't like being with their husband or being with their wife. I fully acknowledge that, and I'm well aware of the divorce rates. But if you— I'm talking here about the basically compatible couple. Not about a highly dysfunctional one. And so within that limitation, the more time that you spend with your spouse, the better. And addressing this specifically to men, the more time you are with your wife, the better. And that just, that's, it's true for the marriage. It is true for the mind wandering to infidelity. As a proof of that, guys can vouch for this. When a guy takes a business trip, that is when he is far from home, that's when he is most susceptible to having an affair. It is truly out of sight, out of mind, not in the sense that he no longer loves his wife or his family life. I mean, of course he does. But simply given the power of the circumstance, The power of the visual in a man's life, being far away from home makes the temptation that much greater. If your wife can travel with you, I mean, think guys, I mean, when are you more likely to imagine having an affair? I mean, I'm just talking about a sexual affair. I don't mean a love affair. Is it when your wife is with you on your business trip or when you go alone? I mean, it's— It's pretty much a rhetorical question. And number 3, think in terms of stage 2 thinking. I was talking to Thomas Sowell, whose great notion of the terrible world of stage 1 thinking, where you only think of what works this moment as opposed to what are the consequences. Think about the consequences of a sexual affair. And that'll be a sobering moment for a guy. I mean, how much is at stake for a momentary thrill? And the truth is, folks, it is— guys, it is a momentary thrill. The moment may be 10 minutes and the moment may be 2 hours, but it's still momentary. I mean, look at what you are endangering. And even if you can get away with it, and a lot of guys do get away with it, a lot of women get away with it. There's not every affair has been known by the spouse. I understand that, but you know it, and then you have to live a life that is essentially one of a lot of lies. To cover up something, you have to do, as Churchill put it in World War II, a body of lies. You just have to create a whole world of phony things. That That causes its own distancing from your partner. Because closeness, I define closeness as saying everything. That is my definition of closeness, whether it's a same-sex friend or your opposite-sex spouse or partner. That is my working definition of closeness. The ability to say— to say anything, not to hide. Every time something is hidden, less intimacy is involved between 2 people. That's just the way it is. That's why I don't want men to hide what their sexual nature is from their wives. I not only don't want you to get into the position of hiding an affair, I don't want you to even hide who you are. That's where women have to help by, in their ways, and I have talked about that a great deal, in allowing her husband— to open up about his sexual nature. Men are afraid, for good reason, in many cases, to open up about what they really are sexually. I mean, I'm talking verbally here, because their wife will think they're a pervert or, or sicko or different from all other men or, or whatever. And, and so it's a It's— but what it does is it alienates. It puts distance between 2 people when you hide part of yourself. So guys, my 3rd recommendation is to understand how your life will change most likely if you do stray. All right, I'm going to take your calls here. Some words to women, how you can help your guy with his sexual nature. But I wanted to address the first words to men. I will take calls from you on this matter, just common-sense advice that you can give to guys on dealing with their— married men dealing with their sexual nature and its proclivity to variety. 1-800-PRAGER-776, the Male-Female Hour on The Dennis Prager Show.

This episode of Timeless Wisdom We'll continue right after this.

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Now back to more of Dennis Prager's timeless wisdom.

Dennis Prager here, the Male-Female Hour. Given the variety-oriented nature of male sexual nature, some advice this Male-Female Hour to men, to married men, on how to work on their sexual nature and stay faithful, sexually faithful to their wives. That's the, uh, it's common sense, uh, suggestions. I'll give you a 4th, by the way. Wear a wedding band. And, uh, I, I admit that there's nothing I'm offering here that is magic, nothing that is foolproof, uh, but, uh, it helps. It's, it's an announcement. I'm married. I, I, I did a show, by the way, which we should replay one day. It was just fascinating. I did a show asking guys who were married who don't wear a wedding band, why don't you? And fascinating how many emails I got from guys listening to the show who said they're going to wear one after hearing it. Because the truth is nobody had a good reason. Nobody. I mean, I have no, you know, I'll be attacked for this. Oh, Prager's telling men what to do, folks. Well, you know, it's so interesting how any advice that you give people is now telling people what to do, as if I have any coercion. Do I have any coercive ability? Am I mandating a law that if you marry, you have to wear a wedding band? Of course not. I would be against such a law, needless to say. But you have to be a little naive and denying of the obvious to say that it has no impact. Most women will not start up with a guy wearing one. I mean, that's just the way it is. Not all women won't. Nothing pertains to all. And there are men who want an affair, they just take it off. I am aware of all of these factors. But the fact is, when it's worn, it helps. And it helps him seeing it. It not only helps ward off the potential woman, but it also is a statement to himself. God, I remember the only argument I could not counter on that show was men who called in to say they were allergic. Remember that? How many guys? Astonishing. I've heard of allergy to dust. Milk. But the number of men allergic to wedding bands, they break out in hives. First of all, there are answers to that because today you can get wedding bands in all— so many different— made out of so many different metals. Palladium, for example, is completely different from gold and in fact is probably better than gold because it doesn't varnish nearly as well, nearly as quickly. Or it doesn't tarnish, not varnish. It doesn't tarnish. You don't need varnish for the tarnish. You don't need varnish for that tarnish. Anything to wake Sean up. You know, sometimes he just snoozes there at the engineering thing, and then— but then I— when I make a mistake here, he has the biggest smile on his face. What a strange person. Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. It's just a little schadenfreude on your part. How do you like that, folks? How many talk show hosts use the word schadenfreude and stay employed? See, some use it, but They're removed immediately. It means joy in others' suffering. Okay, let's go to— let's go to some of your thoughts on this extremely important subject of how men, married men, can deal with their sexual natures. Jeff in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Dennis Prager, thanks for calling.

Good morning, Dennis. Thanks for your advice, and I've got another one.

Yes, sir.

Uh, I live in Colorado Springs. I'm often up in grad school in Boulder where women—

Proliferate.

Proliferate. And, uh, every chance I get, I talk about my wife. I brag about her. I tell—

That's great. That's great.

I include her in everything I can.

That is a terrific, terrific idea. I agree with you entirely. And it sort of— it's, it's almost like an insect repellent.

And it, yeah, and it emphasizes how committed I am to her.

That's right. As it does to you. It not only affects the listener, it affects the speaker.

Yeah.

You're good, man. You're good. I appreciate that. Talk about your wife. That is very true. We shall return momentarily. Advice to men. I'll give some advice to the wife also on The Dennis Prager Show, the Male-Female Hour.

Hi, Dennis. My name is Nick. I live in Westwood, New Jersey, and I just wanna wish you well. I know you've had an ordeal to deal with the last year, year plus now, with what happened to you with your fall. I, like many people, have had their life changed by you and your show and your columns and your videos and your books. I've read everything you've ever written, and you just changed my life. You convinced me to get a PhD in American religion, I went from atheist to, uh, back to Catholic. I went from liberal to conservative. I have successfully converted God knows how many people in my family over to our cause. And, um, I just really appreciate everything you've done for me. And there are, there are millions, if not tens of millions of people like me, most of whom will not call. Um, but just know how much good you've done.

Thank you.

in this world. So I wish you well, and I look forward to continuing to indulge in your timeless wisdom. Thank you so much from the bottom of my heart.

Are you enjoying Timeless Wisdom? We'd love to hear from you. Call 877-243-7776 and leave a review, share your thoughts, or just even an encouraging word for Dennis. Your voicemail might just make it on the show. That's 877-243-7776. That's 877-243-7776. Thanks for listening and for your support.

This is the Dennis Prager Show, the Male-Female Hour, a truly honest look at male-female relations. I have many, many, many, many emails of people saying it has truly— my, my CDs on male sexual nature and the show have been very, very helpful. Some— many women have written to say it saved their marriage. They understand their husband better. I'm delighted. I'm delighted. That's the only reason I do it. That and to offer just clarity on, on a very difficult issue to face honestly, because you're taught not to face it honestly at college. There was an article in the Australian, I think it was in the Australian, which is one of the biggest newspapers in Australia, by a woman saying what nonsense it is that men and women have different sexual natures. I mean, it's still being offered. The only question that I would ask that woman is what graduate school did she go to? That's all. I'd just be curious because I have to assume you had to believe such nonsense. You had to have learned it. My argument today, not argument, it's just an advice, common sense. You're free to reject it, by the way. I'm not imposing this on anyone. You know, people react as if I have somehow coerced them into agreeing with me. There's no coercion. Either what I say makes sense or it doesn't. End of issue. But it won't make sense if you don't accept the premise that men are variety-oriented. No matter how much they love their spouse, they are variety-oriented in their sexual nature. So how does a guy deal with this? And women, please know that whatever your guy says— and this drove my critics crazy, just crazy when I wrote about this— please know that he is doing something quite, quite noble and good in staying faithful because he is fighting his nature on a nearly daily basis, maybe hourly. You know, this sounds awful. It's not awful. It's a battle. Men battle— good men battle their sexual natures. Good women battle their emotional natures.

Okay?

Good people battle their natures all the time. And we're not taught that. We're taught that our nature starts out beautifully, and that's part of the reason for the various crises that we have with regard to human behavior today. I said I would offer women some advice. Obviously, The more loving, and I mean that in every aspect of the word loving that you are, and the more the nest beckons the man, the less he will wish, if he's obviously, I'm assuming, a psychologically fairly healthy man with intact values, the more loving the nest, and I mean physically loving, and I mean emotionally loving, Verbally loving, then the less he will want to leave it. I mean, talk about common sense. That's about as commonsensical as you can get. But I've given 4 for the men, and I will review it one more time before the end of the show, which reminds me to tell you that all my shows are available to you at immediate downloading, commercial-free, and in high, high quality at PragerTopia.com.

PragerTopia.com.

At any of my websites at a, at a $7 a month charge, which is, which is puny. I mean, and you can get it anytime and have this. I mean, this is an example of something I assume that a wife might want to play. I mean, a guy saying this is a lot more helpful than a woman saying this.

Okay.

You're listening to the Dennis Prager Show and the Male-Female Hour, and we go to Rightwood, California.

Bill.

Hi, Bill. Dennis Prager.

Hi, Dennis. I love your show.

Thank you.

I just wanted to make a— probably sounds a little lame, but from a practicality standpoint, I'm a fireman, and I'm just commenting about your point about wearing a wedding ring. And it's actually recommended that we don't wear wedding rings because they can get caught and you can rip your finger off.

Okay, I will now, from now on, say all men who are fighting fires are absolved from wearing a wedding band.

Well, that being said, Dennis, I still wear mine.

That is pretty funny. Okay, all men except Bill are hereby— thank you, Bill, I appreciate it. Look, folks, there are exceptions to everything, and I'm sure that there are men who wear a wedding band, develop hives, which leads to some sort of, uh, cancerous tumor, which ultimately leads to a lymphoma response and death. I appreciate that fact. But for the other 99.999999999% of men, I don't see a good reason not to wear a wedding band. That's all. Simple as that. Simple as that. And let's go to Newport Beach, California, and Chris. Hi, Chris. Dennis Prager.

Hi, Dennis.

Hi. Thank you.

My contribution to this is the realization that a moment of an affair happens at the end of a very long journey, a journey into the dark side, a journey of which a lot of men don't even know where— they're not even aware they're on. But I think that what makes the affair so enticing isn't just the sexual reward, it's the use of all the manly tools of adventure and Of ingenuity.

That's why I want men to use their love of adventure and ingenuity and all, and conquering the world in other areas. Why my first suggestion was stay busy. Conquer a mountain, guys. Whatever your mountain is, literal mountain, climb them, or some other mountain. And physical exercise and a whole host of things. Absolutely. Let's go to Phoenix, Arizona. Susan. Hi, Susan. Dennis Prager.

Hi, Dennis. Nice to talk with you.

Thank you.

I'm often put in the position of watching dads who are divorced or never married when they're visiting with their young children, and it's because the mothers of the children assert the dad is unfit to be alone with the children on the basis that he views or is addicted to pornography. My question is—

Wait a minute, you're telling me that there are men who are being accused of not being allowed to be with their kids because they've looked at Playboy or Penthouse?

Well, this is internet pornography.

All right, so internet pornography. I don't understand.

Well, in the courts, the mothers say the father might be molesting the children or something like that.

Okay, well, if the courts are accept this. Well, I want to hear about that. We'll be back in a moment.

This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

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Now back to more of Dennis Prager's timeless wisdom.

You say goodbye and I say hello. Hello.

Hello.

I don't know why you say goodbye, I say hello.

Hello, hello.

I don't know why you say goodbye. Hey everybody, welcome to the Dennis Prager Show. I just want to comment. This is the male-female hour. I'll summarize. Don't, don't hang up. I want to summarize some of your calls. This last call though is very disturbing. Men who are not allowed to see their children after divorce because they have viewed porn on, on the internet. They might molest their children? All right, look, uh, folks, this is not a defense of porn. This is defense of men, uh, and children. Uh, it is, it is, I, I, it shows the ignorance and of course the anger and what can go on in a courtroom today. I mean, I, this is the first I've heard this and I, I just, I recoil in, in pain at the ignorance of, uh, of men and the ignorance of what children need.

Whew.

All right. Anyway, that's, that's for another time. I've been giving some common sense advice to guys who were in a basically decent marriage on how to stay faithful. And where, where are my, where are my notes here? Actually, on a rare, rare occasion, did I just hand them to anybody? Oh, here we go. All right. One, think through the consequences. 2, keep busy. 3, be with your wife as much as possible. 4, wear a wedding band. 5, talk about your wife when she's not around. These are big deals, believe it or not, and you can help him tremendously by the type of home and love that you offer him. Both are true, but it is a battle. Battling your nature is what makes you a great man. Battling your nature is what makes you a great woman. but the battles are different. That's the point that is lost on a generation raised and in college where you are taught to be stupid. I say it with pain. I have no vested interest in that statement. The first suggestion is not trivial, keeping busy. King David got in trouble Because he was not fighting the war as kings should be. It's an interesting variant on that. He sends a general out to die and takes his wife. I mean, it was a combination of homicide and adultery. The fact is, when a rooster is left with 1 chicken, he will do it 1 time, and when left with 12 chickens, he would do it 12 times. This is the same for a man. You don't know the anger that I got for comparing men to roosters. Uh, but, uh, yes, uh, you know, it's funny that the people get— take that as an attack on men. I'm talking about our nature. Uh, let's see, man, husband wants more sex, he should do some of the housework. Well, the question is, uh, all right, that's a, that's a good one for an hour. That men and men and housework is a very complex question. We should raise that. Alcohol consumption really adds to this problem. Alcohol consumption adds to every problem. This is one of them. You are right. All right, my friends, it's been the Male-Female Hour. Don't go away.

Tomorrow on Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager.

I am astounded that there are people who say they don't care or who just dismiss the idea as wishful thinking. On the part of religious people. I don't think you have to be religious, and I don't think that you have to be a philosopher to understand how significant it is. I mean, if there is no afterlife, if nothing happens, if this is it, all there is, then life ultimately is a total crapshoot. Whether you suffer totally or you prosper is just a matter of—

Luck.

fortune, and there is no ultimate justice. The, the torturer and his victim have the same fates. I, even as a kid, I realized that there, there has to be something beyond this. So when a, a scientist writes that there is something beyond this because of his own experience, it seems to make headlines. In this case, I believe it was a front page, uh, cover story in Newsweek magazine. And the man who was responsible for this is an academic neurosurgeon in Boston, Dr. Eben Alexander. The book is Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife. Dr. Alexander, welcome to the Dennis Prager Show.

Well, thank you, Dennis. It's great to be here.

Thank you. Let me ask you first, what When did you have this experience, which obviously we'll delineate in a moment? When did you have it?

I had it 4 years ago right now. I just wanted to clarify, I'm not at the Brigham and Women's and Harvard Medical School in the Brigham now, but I was there from 1988 to 2001.

Okay, thank you.

The—

because the— oh yeah, you're right. The bio on your book says has-been, right? But you're not a has-been. I just want to make that clear.

That's what this is all about.

You're a will-be.

I'm an am, like we all are.

That's right. All right, let me— let me— so the reason I asked when this happened is if I'd have had you on my show 10 years ago, not, not in the last 4, and asked you, Doctor, I'm just curious, uh, do you believe in an afterlife? What would you have said?

Well, I would have said that, uh, that there is no way that any form of consciousness could exist after the death of the brain and the body.

Right, exactly. Okay, that's what I assumed you would have said. What happened that changed your mind?

I went through this beautiful, extraordinary journey, spiritual journey, deep in coma, that included meeting the divine and And having lessons about all of how this is put together and constructed and the purpose for all of this in higher dimensional space, and, and then came back to this realm.

Join us tomorrow to hear more on Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Visit DennisPrager.com for thousands of hours of Dennis's lectures, courses, and classic radio programs, and to We want to take just a second to thank the team at Life Audio for their partnership with us on the podcast. Go to lifeaudio.com to find dozens of other faith-centered podcasts in their network, including shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and more.

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