Believe Anything

Dennis Prager here. Thanks for listening to the Daily Dennis Prager Podcast. To hear the entire 3 hours of my radio show commercial-free every single day, become a member of Prager Utopia. You'll also get access to 15 years' worth of archives as well as the daily show prep. Subscribe at pragertopia.com. Well, everybody, welcome to the Monday show. As usual, I I hope you had a good weekend. A rare thing happened in the elevator coming up to my broadcast floor. Oh, it's Tuesday. Yes, you see that? The mind works logically but not accurately, in this case anyway. The logic was it's my first day back at work, so therefore the brain says it's a Monday. That's what happened. I still have you. I still hope you had a good weekend. I hope you have a good extended weekend. Usually I initiate speaking with strangers, but to this woman's credit, middle-aged woman, she looked at me and she said, perfect, a tall purple shirt. How's that? Had I been given eternity to anticipate or to predict what this woman would have come out with, eternity would not be long enough. Hi everybody, I am going to open your eyes with one fascinating insight that I picked up reading over the course of this weekend. This will help you understand a great deal. A, a woman aged 107 just died. She was a lifelong communist. And she married a lifelong communist, and they lived in China and were one of the few Westerners allowed access to the higher echelons of the Chinese Communist Party. So let's be clear, to have been in China during the Cultural Revolution and the Great Leap Forward When approximately 60 million Chinese were starved to death and otherwise murdered. And the Cultural Revolution, where people were denounced and humiliated en masse and sent away to rural areas if they were an intellectual, at a time when intellectuals fought for liberty. And still remain a communist means you're a real sick, morally sick person. So I want you to hear how sick this woman was, morally sick, named Isabel Crook. This is from the New York Times obituary. The Crooks became true believers in Chinese communism. Their faith remained unshaken even after David, the husband, David Crook, was charged with espionage and imprisoned between 1967 and 1973 at the height of the Cultural Revolution. Mrs. Crook insisted he was innocent, but her defense backfired and she was kept under house arrest for several years. Now please understand, their communist beliefs were so deep, their, their support for evil was so religious in its implementation, in its genesis, in its etiology, that even when her husband was imprisoned for 6 years, more than 6 years, but 6 years is enough, and imprisoned in China in the late 1960s was a very, very bad thing. They remained true believers. I have often said the truth is not a left-wing value. More than often, I say it every day. It isn't. It's a liberal value and it's a conservative value. It's not a left-wing value. But it's That's not its biggest problem. Its biggest problem is that— well, it's related, but it's not the same. They believe what they say. They believe that kids under 10 can decide that they are the opposite sex. They believe it. It's very hard for those of us who live in both moral and factual reality to appreciate that. But many of them, many of them don't. Many of them are just destroyers because they have nothing better to do with their bored, secular, affluent lives. But for many, this is as communism, which is indistinguishable morally from leftism— again, it's distinguishable from liberalism but not from leftism— that is a religious belief. The people who gave secrets to the atom bomb to Joseph Stalin, the second greatest mass murderer in history, Mao one, Stalin two, in terms of numbers, then followed by Hitler, who would have caught up but didn't have the time that Stalin and Mao had. They believe. These are true believers. The people who believe America is systemically racist, they may not have in the beginning, but they have convinced themselves of it. That a woman can become a man, they believe this. Not all, but many. The woman's husband was arrested for no reason and put away for 6 years in China, and she continued to support the Chinese Communist Party. It's like the communists, the early Bolsheviks, who were thrown into prison under Stalin's regime and then said to the people torturing them, 'If Comrade Stalin only knew what you were doing to me.' They thought Comrade Stalin would object. Comrade Stalin was the reason these people were being tortured. There is not much you can do. Clearly, logic is irrelevant, reason is irrelevant, morality is irrelevant when you have engaged What Erich Hoffer, the great philosopher of the mid-20th century, who was a longshoreman, by the way— I'm not sure he went to college— called the true believer. When you encounter the true believer, you have to be very afraid. If a woman is okay with her husband being sent away for 6 years to some awful Chinese prison, then you know you have encountered true believers. As many of you know, every year— this will be the, I think, the 17th year— I conduct the, the most high holy day services, the high— known as the high holy day services in Judaism, for 300 to 400 people. If you're interested in attending, people fly in from all over to do so. I, I explain everything, and it's a beautiful, beautiful service of music as well. Go to pragerhighholidays.net for information. You can also watch it through the Salem Network. Go to pragerhighholidays.net. So I was thinking, what would I speak on this year aside from my constant explaining of the prayers? I'm thinking about Something I said many years ago, the most heretical thing I can come out with is that God most wants us to be good. Goodness doesn't have a good name. People have other preoccupations, and then they wonder why the world is filled with non-goodness. A.K.A. evil. Because many religious and many secular people are not preoccupied with it. 1-800-PRAGER-776. I'm Dennis Prager. The Dennis Prager Show. Gold dealers are a dime a dozen. They're everywhere. What sets these companies apart and whom can you really trust? This is Dennis Prager for AmFed Coin and Bullion, my choice for buying precious metals. When you buy precious metals, it's imperative that you buy from a trustworthy and transparent dealer that protects your best interests. So many companies use gimmicks to take advantage of inexperienced gold and silver buyers. Be cautious of brokers offering free gold and silver, or brokers that want to sell you overpriced collectible coins claiming they appreciate more than gold and silver. What about hidden commissions and huge markups? Nick Grovich and his team at AMFED always have your back. I trust this man, that's why I mentioned him by name. Nick's been in this industry over 42 years, and he's proud of providing transparency and fair pricing to build trusted relationships. If you're interested in buying or selling, call Nick Grovich and his team at AmFed Coin and Bullion, 800-221-7694, AmericanFederal.com, AmericanFederal.com. And Coulter has a piece up, Why Have Americans Lost Faith in Higher Education? So she gives some examples of some of the course offerings at Harvard, the nation's most prestigious university. Womgen 1210. I don't know what womgen is. Do you? Does anybody know what that means? Is that a new spelling for women? And I'm not being cute. I don't know what it is. See? Oh, it's an image. I don't know. Wamjen. All right, anyway, Wamjen 1210, Black Feminist Theory. Wamjen 1217, Psychology of the Gendered Body. See, can we figure out all this? No, I try to click on these things but nothing happens. I wanted to see who the professor was. Let's see what else. Oh yes, you don't want to miss this. So on, if your kid gets into Harvard, Wamjen 1280, Queer Lives in the Global South. Hmm, I wonder if the students taking Queer Lives in the Global South have any general knowledge of things of substance. These are Harvard students after all. Can they name the four gospels? Can they cite 5 of the Ten Commandments? How many Shakespeare plays have they read? In fact, for that matter, how many can they name? Do they know what the Gulag Archipelago was? I don't know. I, I tend to be pessimistic on these matters, especially the students taking queer lives in the global south. Not done. Wamgen 1315, transgenres. Sean, did you— you majored in transgenres, if I'm not mistaken. That was impressive. And finally, Wamgen 1400, queer ethnographies. Okay, so wait, that's just in that arena. Introduction to African American Studies, that's a legit course. Black Humor, Performance Art and Literature, Black Art and the Refounding of America. Art, Race, and U.S. Law. African-American Theater: A Black History of Electronic Dance Music. Contemporary African-American Theater. Black Classicisms: Adaptations of Ancient Greek and Roman Classics in Africa, the Caribbean, and the U.S. Freedom Writers: Race and Literary Form. Jim Crow: Histories and Revivals. African American Lives in the Law. Well, certainly got Black Studies covered there. I, I, generally speaking, when I hear the word studies at universities, I think that it is more indoctrination than education. Women's studies, queer studies, black studies, just in general the word studies does conjure that up for me. You know what I'm curious about in terms of the future, really curious, If you say you went to Yale 10 years from now, will it carry the cachet that it has for hundreds of years? See, my assumption now, if you went to an Ivy League college, is you're probably quite foolish. You might have a fine brain. But you're probably very, very foolish. Yale has become a wasteland. The president who made it such has just retired. He started as a psychology major, became head of the psych department, then dean of the college, then president of the university. Salavar. Salavar or Salavar. I think Salavar. And he's really overseen its deterioration. People are still trying to get into Yale or Princeton or U of P. Columbia voted the least free college in the country, by the way. It really is something— what, what is left that now— what is remaining, not what is left, is in terms of left-right— what is remaining that has moral and intellectual prestige? I can't think, I can't think of what. The left has destroyed everything. I would say that when I was a child, a third grade teacher was regarded with greater respect than a college professor is today. Half of America, including me, thinks if you're a college professor, you're a dummy. Or worse, like at Arizona State. I've offered to debate 37 professors. Back in a moment. You're listening to The Dennis Prager Show. The Dennis Prager Show. Mike Lindell has a passion to help you get the best sleep of your life. He didn't stop at the pillow. Mike also created the Giza Dream bedsheets. These sheets look and feel great, which means an even better night's sleep, which is crucial for overall health. Mike found the world's best cotton called Giza. It's ultra soft and breathable, but extremely durable. Mike's latest deal is the sale of the year. For a limited time, you'll receive 50% off the Giza Dream Sheets, marking prices down as low as $29.98 depending on the size. Go to mypillow.com, click on the radio podcast square, and use the promo code PRAGER. There you'll find not only this amazing offer but also deep discounts on all MyPillow products, including the MyPillow 2.0 mattress topper, MyPillow kitchen towel sets, and so much more. Call 800-761-6302 or go to mypillow.com and use the promo code Prager. I don't talk to you much about Ukraine. I have been completely supportive of, of aiding Ukraine. I am, I am now completely supportive of pursuing peace while aiding Ukraine. And if there has to be some territorial compromise, uh, I don't want to live in a make-believe world. China is a greater threat than Russia, in my opinion, number one. Number two, because the Democrats have so weakened our defense spending. We are not quite exhausting, but certainly reducing the amount of armaments that we have in case we need it, for example, to protect Taiwan. It's a bad world out there. Liberals as well as leftists are naive about the world, and I know why people are naive about the world, because it's much easier to live in the make-believe world. People are basically good, and if we just, you know, just work with them— the real enemy is climate change, not evil human beings. Climate change, that's the real issue. I'll have a lot to say. I've had a lot to say about climate change, the— and what they are doing to disrupt your life. But first, the great Victor Davis Hanson has a piece up at American Greatness, which in the best sense of the word— I mean, he's unique, so I'm not taking anything away. I'm just saying I could have written, because I am so sympathetic to what, what he is saying, what the left did to our country. Will their upheaval succeed? And he, uh, it's very interesting, uh, he, he starts the, the viciousness with the Barack Obama. Between 2009 and '17, Barack Obama was empowered to transform the Democratic Party from its middle-class roots and class concerns into the party— sorry— of the bicoastal rich and subsidized poor. That's right, that's good. The party of the bicoastal rich and the subsidized poor. That's right. Obsessions with big money, race, a new intolerant green religion. And dividing the country into a binary of oppressors and oppressed. He writes really well, Victor Davis Hanson. He will be at the next PragerU gala. Spending some time with him. Here's a sober view of the, the human race. A professor of ancient history of Greek and Roman I don't know if it's history or literature, maybe both. The Obamas entered the presidency— notice the Obamas, that was good— entered the presidency spouting the usual left-wing boilerplate: spread the wealth, just downright mean country, get in the face, first time I've been proud of my country. Remember her line? I would say that the Reverend Wright and her line, the first time I've been proud of my country, summarize the Obamas really well. See, it's very wrong to take a line out of context. Everybody misspeaks. So the question is, do you believe they misspoke, or do you believe that this reflected how they feel? When a man attends 10 years a church, his best friend is an America-hating black racist. I know the left has taught me, even when I was at Columbia in the '70s, that a black cannot be a racist. That was one of the indications to me that I was not a leftist. The biggest was that they didn't hate communism. My favorite line in the Bible, book I take seriously, is those of you who love God must hate evil. Must, it's a command. We don't have a command form in English, so we say must. You know, you don't hate evil, you don't love God. And if you don't hate communism, you don't hate evil. That's about— that's about as morally clear as it gets on this planet. So that was an indication to me very early on in my life that I could not be a leftist. I thought of myself as liberal, and in some ways I still am. Though liberal, I don't identify with liberals as much as classic liberalism. We'll be back. Hi everybody, Dennis Prager here, and it is a great great piece in American Greatness by Victor Davis Hanson. He connects the, the left-wing destruction of everything beautiful in this country with the Obamas. After getting elected through temporarily pivoting to racial ecumenicalism and pseudo-calls for unity, they— that is, the Obamas— reverted to form and govern by dividing the country. That's right, that's what they did. I was actually ambivalent in the sense that I, I didn't vote for Barack Obama, but there was a joy in me that a Black had been elected president. But he's not a good man, and he, he hurt the country, and 8 years of damage allow enabling the woke left to take its place in the Democratic Party. Then the two left the White House as soon as soon-to-be mansion-living mega-rich elites, cashing in on the fears they had inculcated over the prior 8 years. God, he writes well. Cashing in on the fears they had inculcated To push through the accompanying unpopular agendas of an open border, mandatory wind and solar energy, racial essentialism, and the weaponization of the state, Obama had begun demonizing his opponents and the country in general. America was an unexceptional place. Cops were racist. Clingers of the Midwest—remember, they cling to their guns and Bibles. Were hopelessly ignorant and prejudiced. Only fundamental socialist transformation could salvage a historically oppressive, immoral, and racist nation. That's right. The smearing of America has, has been very effective. Look at the women's soccer team. First time in my life I rooted against an American team. I was thrilled when Sweden defeated them. It can— it really tells you almost all you need to know about the left, watching the women of the Dutch soccer team sing their national anthem and the women of the American soccer team, either silent or mumbling. Who's done more good for the world, Holland or the United States? It's not an anti-Dutch statement. It's merely a question that's legitimate. If they can sing their national anthem Why can't our team? I was thrilled they lost. Megan Rapinoe is one of the more awful human beings in public life. The people finally rebelled at such preposterousness. Obama lost his party some 1400 local and state offices during his tenure. That's a lot. Along with both houses of Congress, his presidency was characterized by his own polarizing mediocrity. What a term. Excuse me, let me bask in its beauty. I feel warm waves of a jacuzzi washing over my body. Polarizing mediocrity. A new, a new definition of PM. Yeah, I have to remember that term. Nothing describes Obama better than polarizing mediocrity. His one legacy was Obamacare. The veritable destruction of the entire system of a once workable health insurance. That's right, squeezed it through, through some gimmick. Have you tried to buy insurance since Obamacare came in? Of the hallowed doctor-patient relationship and of former easy access to competent specialists. Yet Obama's unfulfilled ambitions set the stage for the Biden administration, staffed heavily with Obama veterans, to complete the revolutionary transformation of the Democratic Party and the country. It was ironic that while Obama was acknowledged as young and charismatic, nonetheless A cognitively challenged, past plagiarist, fabulist, and utterly corrupt Joe Biden was far more effective in ramming through a socialist woke agenda and altering the very way Americans vote and conduct their legal system. Another gem of a sentence. Stranger still, Biden accomplished this subversion of traditional America while debilitated and often mentally inert, along with being mired in a bribery and influence-peddling scandal that may ultimately confirm— and now he's going to say what I have been saying for a while— that he easily was the most corrupt president to hold office in U.S. history. That's right, the current president. The preoccupation of the left with Trump is in part to deflect from the vile nature of this man who is this president, Joe Biden. How is this all possible? COVID had allowed the unwell Biden to run a surrogate campaign from his basement as he outsourced his politicking to a corrupt media. That's right, he— I'm telling you the gems of these sentences— he outsourced his politicking to a corrupt media. We'll put this piece up at DennisPrager.com, and we'll return. Hi everybody, Dennis Dennis Prager here. Nobody has done better work than Julie Kelly in analyzing what is happening to our country by using the government to persecute Americans. I can't believe I'm actually saying these words. I'm old enough to remember Andrei Sakharov, the great, great, great human being. Who was a dissident in the Soviet Union. And it never occurred to me that we would have political prisoners in the United States. But I was naive because the left is the left. It's irrelevant if the left speaks Russian or English. Julie Kelly has her own Substack page. It's called Declassified. How do people get to you? Hi, Dennis.

So yes, my Substack is called Declassified with Julie Kelly. So if people just put that in their computer, they should be able to find me. I'm also at Twitter quite a bit, Julie_Kelly2, where I post breaking news. There was some interesting news today about the January 6th investigation, but I post court motions and breaking news a lot on Twitter and Truth Social.

Am I right in saying that this, to the best of your knowledge, is the first time America has political prisoners?

I believe so. And you know what, Dennis, it was 2 and a half years ago, I think you were the first major influencer on the right to have me on, and we talked about the case of Kui Griffin. The Cowboys for Trump leader who had been denied release based on his participation, nonviolent, didn't even go in the building participation for January 6th. And that article was entitled America's Political Prisoners. I published it in February of 2021, and you were the first person to have me on to discuss that. And never did I think we would be here more than 2 and a half years later talking about the continued roundup, arrest, armed raids, prosecution, and detention, incarceration of January 6th protesters. Let me talk to you.

By the way, if you're right that I was the first, I must say I'm very proud of that.

I really— You should be.

I don't think you are. Yes, good. All right. I'm happy to hear that. Okay, tell me about the Proud Boys. Whatever one's views of the Proud Boys, uh, and I'm not even inclined to lump them in with, let alone terrorists, or even with necessarily racists. I, I don't know that much about them. I know what I read on both sides, but I don't understand how they could be declared terrorists and given 17 years in prison. Can you explain that?

I will to the best of my ability. Um, the Proud Boys, uh, were started in like 2016, and what happened is over the years, and especially during the BLM Antifa riots of 2020, the Proud Boys kind of assembled as really sort of a way to help law enforcement, or in some cases, Dennis, as you know, replace law enforcement who is busy bending the knee to BLM rioters. So they were protecting businesses. They were confronting BLM in places like Portland, and they had in Seattle the year before, and in Washington, D.C. They were there to protect Trump supporters who were demonstrating, protesting the election. At separate rallies in November and December of 2020. Now, you will recall, Dennis, and I know your listeners know this too, Trump supporters, Republican lawmakers, Donald Trump and his family themselves were under constant assault by BLM, Antifa rioters throughout the second half of 2020. Police basically were doing nothing, and they were being attacked by these people as well. So a lot of Proud Boys assembled, planned to march in to be in Washington, D.C. on January 5th and 6th to protect Trump supporters, to protect officials, because they felt that they were not receiving adequate protection from law enforcement, which of course they were not. Fast forward to January 6th. The Proud Boys basically just made plans to travel to Washington, D.C., were in a lot of group chats that were embedded, by the way, with FBI informants and other law enforcement officials. Using a lot of inflammatory language that you and I would not necessarily approve of, but nonetheless protected speech. They met at the Washington Monument at 10 o'clock. Some of them marched, a big group of them marched to the Capitol. Some were involved in the first exterior breach on the west side of the Capitol. There was, you know, not physical confrontations with police, but they were on the west side near the building. And then four— in one of them, Dominic Pezzolla infamously used a riot shield to smash one of the windows. The other four men who were charged in this particular case, the seditious conspiracy case, were not involved in any violence. They were not accused of assaulting police or directly vandalizing property. Nonetheless, the government first charged them with conspiracy and obstruction of an official proceeding, and then DOJ added the seditious conspiracy. Counts after a 4-month trial in Washington, D.C. Um, 4 of the 5 were convicted of seditious conspiracy, and that's where these harsh prison sentences, uh, stem from.

I'm quiet because I, I'm, I'm so angry. Seditious conspiracy.

I, I—

wait, let me understand that. To the best of your knowledge, can you give an example of any American prior to the Proud Boys convicted of that?

There is none.

So it's a new charge. It's a Civil War charge.

But, but Dennis, only—

wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Explain that. A Civil War charge, right?

It was a statute stemming from the Civil War for those who were loyal to the Confederacy. Wanted to continue to overthrow the American government.

It hasn't been used since the Civil War?

Oh, it has been used, but it's been used against legitimate foreign terrorists like the Blind Sheikh and his associates for attempting to blow up a World Trade Center.

Has it been used against Americans since the Civil War?

I think there have been a few attempted charges, but The last time DOJ tried to use it against Americans, a federal judge in Michigan threw it out of court. But never has an American been convicted of seditious conspiracy since the Civil War.

Correct. Civil War was, let's see, 170 years ago, right? Yes. Seditious conspiracy. I don't know if you can answer this. This is a curiosity question because I want to know whom I should despise the most. Is this— and I mean that sincerely.

I know it's hard to take.

Trust me. Yeah. Well, I am a religious man and my favorite biblical verse is that those who love God must hate evil. So I am bound by the Bible to hate evil. So I, I want to understand, do you think that Joe Biden, Merrick Garland, somebody else is behind this?

Well, the person most responsible for bringing those charges is a man named Matthew Graves. He is the U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia, and he is the one who, after he was confirmed, a Biden appointee, a Biden campaign advisor, hardened Democrat, so is his wife, um, he was the one who then started bringing suspicious conspiracy charges against members of the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers. So this investigation had gone on for about a year until he took over, whether he was taking his marching orders from Joe Biden or Merrick Garland or just doing it on his own because he's a very vengeful man. Um, that's when he started bringing this very unique, rare, ancient charge accusing these men. Basically, the only crime it's tantamount to is treason. and an attempt— this specific language is to but use force to prevent, hinder, or delay a government proceeding. That's how vague this language is. And so it's been exploited like a lot of language in other statutes has been, to turn these otherwise nonviolent protesters into today's version of domestic terrorists.

Who came up with the term terrorist for the Proud Boys leaders?

[Speaker] I believe it dates back to Christopher Wray's testimony in March of 2021 when he designated January 6th an act of domestic terror. And when he was asked specifically about the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers, he said, "Well, I can't designate a whole group as a group of terrorists, but yes, there are certainly terrorists in those groups." Would he say that there were terrorists in Antifa? Remember, he said Antifa was just an idea. He said that? He did. Christopher Wray? Yes, he did.

You can find Julie Kelly now at Substack. It's called Declassified. It's a good name you chose. We'll be back in a moment. Hello everybody, Dennis Prager here discussing the descent of America, certainly moving toward police state with Julie Kelly. The inimitable Julie Kelly is on with me. You can get her on Substack. She has a page, and her page is called Declassified. I can't let this go. 17 years given to— what is it, 2 of the leaders of Proud Boys? Is that correct?

Yes. So 17 years for Joseph Biggs, 18 years for Ethan Nordin. Were they both—

forgive me, don't forget what you're about to say. I just want to understand this and want everybody to understand. Were both of them at the Capitol that day? Yes. And one of them smashed a window?

One of them, but not either— not Joe Biggs nor Ethan Nordean. Another man did who was tied to the group, but they did not.

Wait, so the two that were given 17 years did not even smash a window? They did not. So they engaged in no violence, even in the charges against them? None. No violence? No. So they were given 17 years in prison, which is about what the average murderer in America gets. Certainly no carjacker gets that, and few rapists get that. So what did they do? They— you said incendiary speech. Give me an example.

Just, you know, big talking, braggadocious talking about what they wanted to do. A lot of inflammatory language about the 2020 election, which prosecutors think is evidence of a crime of attempting to overthrow your government because they doubted the outcome of the 2020 election. They also done, is more importantly in this case, tied the Proud Boys to Donald Trump. What this government did, this Department of Justice did, is say that Trump's offhanded remark in the September 2020 debate with Joe Biden, when he was forced by Joe Biden, by the way, to denounce the Proud Boys, said Proud Boys stand back and stand by. This Department of Justice claimed that that was a call to arms, call to action, for the Proud Boys to bolster their forces to defend whatever happened after the 2020 election. They also cited Trump's tweet about going to January 6th, his tweet on December 19th, 2020, when he said, "Will be wild. Come to January 6th." That, they said, was the start of the Proud Boys' alleged seditious conspiracy. To try to overthrow the government without weapons, without assaulting anyone. And at one point, Ethan Nordin walking through an open Capitol door with several Capitol Police officers standing right there. Because of course, when you're going to overthrow the government, you make sure to go through an open door with cops standing right there. And no weapons. No weapons, right? Not one. But what the government did, Dennis— and this is very important, and it's my latest article on my Substack— is what these judges are doing, Ahmed Maida and Obama appointee, and Timothy Kelly, a Trump-appointed judge, an alleged conservative, who oversaw, mishandled, egregiously mishandled this Proud Boys trial from beginning to end, allowed, consented to DOJ's request to add a terrorism enhancement in the Proud Boys case. And you know what the terrorism enhancement was based on? Joe Biggs and Ethan Nordine allegedly shaking part of a temporary metal fence on Capitol grounds that day. That was the act of terror. That is the sort of thing that these DC judges— who, when you say evil, who the bad guys are, it's actually the judges. DOJ can't get away with any of this without consent. Who are the judges?

Timothy Kelly and who? Amit Mehta.

Nick Mehta? Amit. A-M-I-T. Amit Mehta. M-E-T-A. Yes, sir. M-E-H-T-A. Oh, as in Zubin Mehta. Okay. So they are turning low-level petty offenses like shaking a fence, petty vandalism charges, or things like seditious conspiracy.

So let me understand this too. Was this trial in front of a jury? It was a D.C.

jury.

I am curious how Democrats would react If a, if a trial of a leftist took place in front of an all-conservative, all-Republican, all-white jury?

Yes, there would be outrage instead of the silence that we're getting from—

were the lawyers, were the lawyers effective? They had excellent lawyers.

Most of these, they had excellent, devoted lawyers who worked on their defense for two.

Is somebody going to write a book about how these trials manifested themselves? What happened?

Well, I should write a follow-up to my January 6th book.

Probably be twice as long as the first book.

I think literally just just those trials. Yes. I see. I don't know if you know, and there would be no reason you should, but my field of study was the Soviet Union and communism. And when I, when I read about Soviet judges doing what the regime wanted with no even facade of justice, it never occurred to me me that this would take place in my beloved America. And it is.

And it is. It absolutely is. I've sat in the courtrooms, I've seen it. I saw Judge Amata designate a 61-year-old grandmother of 3 from Florida last week as a domestic terrorist, added terrorism enhancement to her sentence, um, because she was convicted by a DC jury of obstructing kind of an official proceeding, a post-Enron law, by the way, that has nothing to do with political protest.

Okay, we'll move on now. I guess the only hope for these Proud Boy leaders is a Republican administration, is that right?

I believe so. And I mean, I do think there's only one man who would be elected who would be courageous enough to pardon that. His first name is Donald. Yes, it— yes, yeah.

We'll be back in a moment. Julie Kelly can be found at Substack. The column is Declassified. I tell you, uh, Julie Kelly, one of your next books should be How not to shoot yourself, because you are involved in the most depressing aspect of modern American life on a daily basis. I have to assume you have a happy private life.

I do, thank God. I've got a great husband, awesome daughter, a lot of friends, and, uh, yes, activities outside of this. But I'll tell you, Dennis, Last week was rough. That was, um, personally extremely difficult to see what this DOJ and Judge Mehta did to Connie Mags, the 61-year-old grandmother, to see what they did to the Proud Boys, who are absolutely broken, um, and have already been in prison, by the way, for 2 and a half years awaiting trial, awaiting the sentence. Their lives are destroyed, their families are destroyed, their future destroyed. Um, it's very difficult to see people, whether you agree with their specific conduct or language, but to see them targeted so viciously and hear these lying prosecutors accuse them of being terrorists and have judges such as Tim Kelly, an alleged conservative Trump-appointed judge, go along with that, uh, it's pretty gut-wrenching to see on many levels. Yes, but especially long-term consequences, right?

Well, so it's like, I, I have asked for much of my life, do bad people go to the left or does the left make bad people? The answer is both. And certainly in the case of Timothy Kelly, can you explain him at all?

You know, I wish I could. Um, I'll tell you two things. He's a former prosecutor for the DC U.S. Attorney's Office, which is the same office prosecuting every January 6th case. So these are his former colleagues, his buddies, you know, like-minded, allegedly tough on crime, but that's not what this is at all. And in fact, Dennis, outrageously, Tim Kelly, aside from acting as a rubber stamp for DOJ for 2.5 years, holding nonviolent offenders, these men, denying their release for more than 2 years, refusing to change this trial outside of DC, even Dennis, as the January 6th Committee was holding televised hearings, specifically naming these defendants, Enrique Tarrio, Joseph Biggs, Ethan Nordin, showing videos of them as jury selection is going underway in DC for their trial, insisting that he would be able to pick a fair jury, which he did not because at least 8 admitted leftist Democrat activists were seated on that jury. And of course, they came back with nearly all convictions on every count except for a few. Um, he allowed the cover-up of FBI evidence, the involvement of FBI informants. Get this, he told the defense team you have to pre-clear questions with prosecutors related to FBI informants and the FBI's involvement in this case. You have to pre-clear your cross-examination questions with the government. Like, you talk about Soviet style trials. I mean, one defense attorney said it's like having a prosecutor on the government's team. That's how Judge Tim Kelly acted, uh, and he did it straight through sentencing. And last week actually publicly denounced any comparison between January 6th, how January 6th defendants were being treated, and BLM Antifa rioters, saying it's different because January 6th was a fraught constitutional crisis or moment, some gobbledygook like that. That's, that's who he is, and he's just not very bright. I'm at me as a very smart judge. Tim Kelly is not, so he's easy to manipulate.

I, I wonder who suggested— because no president knows all the people they appoint, they can't— I wonder who suggested Timothy Kelly to President Trump?

My guess is Charles Grassley, because before he became a judge, Tim Kelly was one of the general counsels for Charles Grassley's, um, for Senate Judiciary Committee. Now, I doubt Charles Grassley knew that Tim Kelly would be— would morph into an activist leftist judge after January 6th. I'm sure he never saw that coming. But Judge Tim Kelly also happens to be married to, uh, one of the top deputies for DC Mayor Muriel Bowser. So there's another little wrinkle.

No kidding. Somebody, somebody a few years ago made a list of all the marital links between the left-wing media and the government and, and things, judges like you're mentioning now. It's a very incestuous place, Washington.

Yes. And Matthew Graves, the DC US Attorney, is married to a woman who runs one of the most radical left-wing pro-abortion nonprofits called the National Women's Law Center. She is part of, and she runs this, it's a $100 million nonprofit getting money from all the usual sources. Her organization is taking a lead role in discrediting the Supreme Court, including trying to get Clarence Thomas to resign. Matthew Graves is like—

All right, all right, more coming up with Julie Kelly. Back in a moment. Looking at Julie Kelly's Substack page titled Declassified, I'm telling you folks, the moral rot and the perversion of justice is so analogous to the Soviet Union. Here is an example that I just saw on your page Judge Tanya Chutkan compared January 6th to 9/11 and to the Boston Marathon bombing. You want to expound on that for a moment?

Um, yes. So she did this in a hearing last Monday. She is the judge, Obama-appointed judge, overseeing Jack Smith's indictment of Donald Trump for January 6th. So this was her hearing to set the trial date and in the process commended herself for, or tried to compare, her fast-track trial date, 7 months between indictment and trial, to other terror cases. And in it said, well, you know, it took 2 years for the Boston Marathon bomber to go to trial, and it took 4 years for Zacharias Moussaoui, the alleged 20th hijacker from 9/11, to go to trial. "So, you know, here I am fast-tracking this," and that's what she said. So she's basically comparing Donald Trump to Zacharias Moussaoui and the Tsarnaev brothers, of course responsible for murdering, both of them, thousands of people, and in the Boston Marathon murdering 3 people including an 8-year-old boy, injuring hundreds of others. This is the sort of sick mentality that is exhibited by nearly every judge in the D.C. District Court. So, um, yeah, people should check it. I posted the entire transcript, Dennis, so people can read for themselves. That was just one of many insane things that Tanya Chudkin said in the hearing last week.

What sort of prison are the Proud Boys going to spend theoretically 17 years in?

I mean, it will be a federal prison. They've already been in jail, as I said, for 2 and a half years. Yeah. Yeah, at this point now, 30 months. So they've been in the DC gulag during trial, so they've been in the DC jail since December, and then now they'll be transferred to permanent federal prisons, probably, I'm assuming, in their home states. So Florida, Pennsylvania, where they're— in Washington State, where they're from.

I hate to even ask this, but my heart breaks for them. You say it's destroyed their families. What did you mean?

I mean, their families are broken. I sat with one father last week who's in his late 60s and started sobbing in front of me, saying he didn't want to die with his son in jail. Um, so, you know, they're bankrupted, destroyed. Their names now are associated with an act of terror. Outcasts. You know, some of these men have been abandoned by their own family members. What shocked me, Dennis, is how little support these men had, either family members, friends. And how can we support them? I, I don't know. I mean, I know some of them have GiveSendGo accounts. Um, that's basically it.

They They could not have a GoFundMe page.

GoFundMe is quite political. Yes, as soon as J6ers started posting GoFundMe accounts, GoFundMe deplatformed all of them. People should know that.

I mean, I give frequently to GoFundMe, uh, but I, uh, I, I never check off the box, add this to, to contribute to GoFundMe. I put on zero. I send it to the poor people that like the funeral of a murdered boy, let's say. But, uh, it's, it's another, uh, place that the left has destroyed, the GoFundMe page. So what, what page do they have for people to contribute?

Um, well, most of the J6 defense, um, accounts, funds are on GiveSendGo. That's the only— it's a Christian platform, and that's the only place that will host these, these funds.

GiveSendGo.

GiveSendGo. G-I-V-E. GiveSendGo. Oh, GiveSendGo. Yeah, it sounded like gifts and go.

GiveSendGo. That's why I always have people—

3 different words. I'm sorry, 3 different words. But Dennis, can I offer one more thing? Is people need to pressure their Republican members of Congress. They are silent on the selective abuse of political prosecution and imprisonment of their own supporters. And I will point people to Representative Ken Buck, and I just posted his letter defending this Department of Justice, claiming the J6ers are getting fair trials, are being treated fairly by this Department of Justice, that they are not subjected to selective prosecution. When you have Republican like that. Where is he from? Colorado. And I just posted his letter on my Twitter, Julie_Kelly2. He said they got a fair trial. He is defending this process. Yes. Saying that judges are very careful.

It is truly sickening. Are there any good Republicans out there?

There are.

I mean, name them. Name them.

Well, I mean, people have been out front on this from the beginning. Marjorie Taylor Greene. Andy Biggs, Matt Gaetz has been very vocal about this. Louie Gohmert was. Unfortunately, he is not in Congress anymore. So there's— I know I'm leaving off a few, but what about senators? No.

So what do you think it is? I'm sure that there are senators who know that this has been a Soviet-like trial. Are they afraid?

I believe they are afraid. Of whom? Of this Department of Justice or FBI, you know, turning the tables on them. But I also think that they, they don't want to be associated with these people, Dennis Prager. Right. When I, when I report on them, people say, how can you defend these lowlifes? How can you defend— they're, they're gross people. You know, they're not smart. They're not educated.

We're defending justice. It has nothing to do with whether we like these people. Why? Why is that a complex idea?

Apparently it is in the minds of most Americans.

Well, courage is the rarest of the human values, of the human traits. And it's very sad. Well, you're doing major work for this embattled democracy. To, to read Julie Kelly, and you should every day. Just go to Substack and her— what would you call it, column? What do you call it, her page? What is that? What's the official word?

I think page is the right word. Her page, which is called Declassified.

Thank you, Julie. Sleep well when you go to bed.

I will, Dennis. And thank you, as I said, for helping cover this, help me cover it from the very beginning. It's an honor.

Hi everybody, Dennis Prager here. The Ultimate Issues Hour, the third hour every Tuesday. This is a tough subject that I'm going to address today. Tough for religious people. I am one of them. But if we don't confront it, then we're not honest. And we certainly don't do God or religion a service. It is certainly confronted by the anti-religious. How do you explain religious people who are demonstrably not good people? Now I know we get into the debate, well, are there any good people? I never understood why that is a debate. Of course there are good people. Are there bad people? Well, if there are bad people, and everybody would acknowledge that, then there are good people. And how do you know who's good? Very simple— by how they behave. I've dealt with this on a few occasions. I will deal again with the issue of sinful thoughts versus sinful behavior. I believe that we judge people by their behavior and not their thoughts. The number of people with good thoughts and horrible behavior has been in the hundreds of millions. Supporters of communism often thought that they were doing good, and they were supporting the most vicious, bloodthirsty, enslaving doctrine in modern history. Yep. So I, I don't give much credence to what you think. There are people with bad thoughts who do a great deal of good, and there are people with good thoughts who do a great deal of bad. But that's just different, another subject, one that I think is extremely important, but for another time. And we have done it, we'll do it again. So I am asking you a question. How do you explain, especially if you're religious, but you don't have to be religious to answer this, to call in on this, how do you explain bad religious people? So the standard answer of religious people has been they're not really religious. So it's an interesting answer, and it's a tough— it's, it's, it, it, there's truth to it, but it's not the whole truth. So I'm going to tell you something from within Judaism that'll blow your mind, absolutely blow your mind. One of the leading Orthodox Jewish commentators— I mentioned he's Orthodox because you might think, well, it's some modern liberal. Actually, he was an early middle-aged— I'll get you the dates in a moment. His name is Nachmanides, or Ramban in Hebrew. Nachmanides, let's see, when did he live? I have it, I should have it here. He died in 1270, Born, born in Spain in 1194, died in Acre, Israel in 1270. So he's— he was the 13th century, uh, major Jewish thinker. Major. And he had a very fascinating comment on a verse in the Bible. One very famous verse, Leviticus 19:19-2. God said, you shall be holy to the Israelite people. You shall be holy, for I, the Lord your God, am holy. So in classic Jewish fashion, he asks a question and then provides an answer. And as I said, this will blow your mind. What if you're irreligious? It'll blow your mind. And if you are religious, it will. He asked the question, why is there a law to be holy? Isn't someone who fulfills the laws of the Torah, where all the laws are, the first 5 books, 613 of them, isn't that person going to be holy or good? Why is there a law to be holy? Just keep the laws. And then he came up with a statement which I learned in yeshiva, Jewish religious school, which I attended till 19, that is extremely well known to anyone who has studied Judaism. It's 3 words in Hebrew: minuval 'You can be disgusting with the permission of the Torah.' Wow, for a religious Jew to say that in the 12th century, no less. I commend him, and I commend Judaism for honoring statement. In fact, I will go so far as to say you can be disgusting with the full permission of any religion. That's— there's no guarantee that following your religion will lead you to do good. There's no guarantee. There is a greater likelihood in some cases, not in all, that following your religion will make you a better person. That's why I judge religions by what they produce, not by their theologies, just as an aside. So how is it possible that you could observe all the laws— love your neighbor as yourself, love God, do not place an obstacle before the, the blind, do not curse the deaf. If you— the— if the donkey of your, of your enemy is overladen with goods, take off his burden. I mean, this— it doesn't make sense. How, how could you follow that and, and still be disgusting? That's what minuval is, that Hebrew word. So I'll give you an example from driving. Is it possible to observe all driving rules and be a disgusting driver? Yes, it is possible. I see it all the time. I don't know if you are violating the law I don't think you are by going slowly in the diamond lane or the high occupancy vehicle lane, whatever your state calls it, or going slowly in the left lane. I don't believe it is a violation of a law. I don't think you can get ticketed for, for doing so, but it's disgusting. Taking your time to, to turn when the signal turns green for a left turn, and everybody's been sitting there and you're taking your sweet time. That's, uh, I don't think that that is illegal, but it's disgusting. It is not enough to follow laws. It's, it's an essential but it's not enough. It is necessary but not sufficient to making a good person. So for example, since I've acknowledged that, I gave the Jewish example of an observant Jew could be an awful human being. I'll give an example. Can you be Christian? And be an awful human being. Of course you can. The argument, well, that the person really isn't Christian, then the Jew ought to make the argument that a person really isn't following Judaism. And that happens to be true. But it doesn't deny the fact that there were people who deeply believe in Christ who are bad people. And there are people who deeply believed in Judaism who were bad people. Religion is the— or at least the Judeo-Christian religions, I think, are the best vehicle to being a good person, but they're not guarantees. Do you agree? 1-800-PRAEGER, 776-877-243. 7776. The Dennis Prager Show. I'm Dennis Prager. This is the Ultimate Issues Hour. How do you explain religious people who do bad? I gave you a quote which is just awesome. It is one of the many reasons I have a great reverence for Judaism, is that one of its greatest thinkers from the 12th century In the commentary on Leviticus 19:2, you shall be holy, he said, why is there a law to be holy? Isn't following all the laws of the Torah enough to make you holy? And then he said, no, actually you can be disgusting with the permission of the Torah. And this is with the Torah-observant Jew. You can be disgusting with belief in Christ. Every religion needs to say this, otherwise it's not ethically serious. You have to want to be good. It is not— there's no automatic goodness maker in religion. It doesn't come automatically. That's what he's saying. I'll give you another one, one of the greatest Jewish Orthodox thinkers, I think— well, what century would he have been in? Let's see. Let me look this one up because I won't— I have to get everything accurately. Let's see here. Uh, well, I'll get it for you during the break. I don't want to take your time, but I'll tell you what the statement was. I think it was the great rabbi that go into Vilna, but I'm not certain. It'd be about the 18th century or 19th century. And he said the Torah— also deeply Orthodox man— the Torah is like rain. When it pours, it brings up beautiful flowers and poisonous weeds. That is true for all religions. If you can't say that about your religion, if you think that your religion automatically produces good people, you are fooling yourself. And that's, that's my message on this Ultimate Issues Hour. Okay, so let's see how you folks deal with this. Okay, let's see. Hmm, fascinating. George, Columbus, Ohio. Hello.

Hi Dennis. Hi. Uh, you asked, um, before the break if I did agree or disagree on Judeo-Christian values. Being the only ones that teach.

Oh, I know. I didn't ask that, actually. I asked, do you agree or disagree that it is possible in any religion to be religious and be awful? I don't, I don't only believe that Judeo-Christian religions can produce good people. There are good Hindus. There are good everybody.

Oh, absolutely. But yeah, you are correct then. I don't disagree with you then. Yes, there could be horrible Christians, there could be horrible Muslims, there could be horrible any religion. I think it just has to do with the person themselves. I don't think it has to do with the religion at all.

Okay, there I differ with you. I know that the, the preaching that I got in all of my years at religious school had, had an effect on, on me. I don't think I would be a bad person had I not had this, but I— there's no doubt in my mind I'm better. I'll, I'll give you, I'll give you an example. All of you will find this fascinating. I've written about it actually. It's called the storekeeper law. So there's a law in— there's a Jewish law, there are many Jewish laws, thousands probably, that if you enter a store, you are not allowed to ask the storekeeper the price of an item if you know you won't buy it, because you're not allowed to raise the hopes of the storekeeper for no reason. And I wrote about this and there were stores that told me they put the article up for people to read because so many people did it. I remember going to a camera store, oh, it's in like, so at least 30 years ago. I was at a camera store in Los Angeles and a woman took about 20 minutes of the storekeeper's time to to see what camera she wanted, and then she said, can you tell me where I can get it cheaper on the internet? So not only did she rob the guy of 20 minutes, but she had the chutzpah, the audacity, to say, hey, can you tell me where I can get it cheaper? So I had been taught as a kid, if you know you won't buy an item, you don't have to think— you don't have to know you will buy an item. But if you know you won't, you cannot ask its price. I got that from my religion. I would not have come up with that on my own, I don't think. People do it all the time. They go to a store, they check out all the giant screen TVs, and then they get it on the internet. They know they won't buy it there, but they have taken up the time of somebody at the store to do it. There's no question that there are people who are better because of their religion. I wish it were all people. That's the point though of my talk. So I thank you. I thank you. for my, for that call. Appreciate it. Okay, uh, let's see here. Thomas in Dallas, Texas. Hi.

Hey Dennis, how are you? Well, thank you. Thank you. Thanks for talking with me. You know, I've listened to you for years but, uh, never bothered to call until now. Glad you did. So, uh, yeah, me too. So the reason that, uh evil people can be religious is because religion in and of itself is not good. Only the religion that proceeds from God is good. Unless you follow that, you're going to be doing evil.

Well, how do you know what to follow if there's no religion? Is it— you mean, do you mean Bible alone without religion, or you mean no Bible either?

Well, you have to believe that God exists. If you believe he exists, he can speak right to your heart.

I don't agree with you, and I'll tell you why I don't agree. Uh, there are the number of awful people who thought they believe in God is very large. Back in a moment. Dennis Prager here. Thanks for listening to the Daily Dennis Prager Podcast. To hear the entire 3 hours of my radio show commercial-free every single day, become a member of Prager Utopia. You'll also get access to 15 years' worth of archives. As well as the Daily Show prep. Subscribe at prageropia.com.