Cosmic Significance

I like it.

I like it too. I really like it.

From what I can hear. That's true. I hear it. I'm the one with the earphones. The one with the earphones is Dennis Prager, and the non-earphoned human, the female human, since we do believe that sex is binary, is Julie Hartman. The Dennis and Julie Show. So almost every week I give a tiny introduction to what this is about.

And you mean on this show or on—

about this show, about Dennis and Julie.

On your radio show?

No, no.

Oh, here?

Even here, absolutely. So I get a lot of feedback, and that way you really know how people perceive what you're doing. It's great. Everybody should get feedback about their lives. If everybody had that, it would be a better world. Anyway, I don't want to get into philosophy right now. This is truly unique, which I've said. It's really an exploration of life. That's true, but it's an exploration of us in a very— it's, you know, in a non-narcissistic sense. But we're both very open and we're both interested in ourselves and in the other one.

That does sound narcissistic.

I know. Well, no, you should be interested in yourself.

Yes.

Yeah. Although my motto has been, and you know it's true, I take my ideas much more seriously than I take— I don't take me that seriously. And you're good about that too. You— I see you all the time interacting with people. Anyway, it really is. So for those who know me, and obviously more people know me than you, it'll change. That's my goal. And my hope and my trust. But in any event, you, you the listener, or you the watcher, will, will, will see me in a, in a deeper light. There, there is more to me, and I'm open on my shows and my speeches and so on. But anyway, I just wanted to say this is an exploration of the human condition.

That's what Dennis and Julie is, and we're interested in ourselves, but In the sense that we're interested in our moral and intellectual development and building good lives for ourselves.

And only insofar as it matters to anybody else.

Right, right. As long as it's a relevant life conversation.

By the way, this is number 40, which is biblical.

Wow, yes. And it's—

so let me know, you've been reading the Rational Bible.

Oh gosh.

What is 40 in the Bible?

40 days of the flood.

Right.

They were the Jews had to wander in the desert for 40 years, right? I'm forgetting the other—

yes, what is the other?

Hey, that's pretty good.

No, no, there's one— there's another 40.

What is it?

As soon as I tell you, you will, uh, so to speak, kick yourself. Moses was on Sinai for 40 days and 40 nights, which proves that 40 is, is not meant to be the number after 39. It means It's of cosmic significance.

And you just celebrated 40 years on the radio.

I did. And I didn't even think of it the whole time when I announced, oh, it's 40 years. But I think of it now with our 40th Dennis and Julie.

So do you think that, you know, when God has this number pop up many times in the Bible, obviously I agree with you, he's trying to signal that there's something significant about the number. Do you think it's that when you hit 40 of anything in life, there's some kind of wisdom that comes along with, with that? Like, what do you—

I don't know.

I mean, yeah, how could you know? But what do you speculate?

The reason, by the way, it's important that I said I don't know, because when I write my Bible commentary, I never make up stuff. If I explain something, it's because I believe this is the explanation. And if I can't, I can't. I, I don't know why 40 was chosen, but it is interesting what you're pointing out. 40 years of life does signify at that point you should have attained some wisdom. That's true. Uh, it's, it's less and less, I think, apt. More, uh, more— I, I don't know what age signifies anymore.

I love also that you just said that you don't know, because whenever I talk to people about why they don't believe in God, or, you know, mostly it's people in my age group, why they won't read the Bible, oftentimes they say to me, well, I don't know if it's true. How can you prove that? Why would I waste my time going through all of this if I don't know that it's true? Which, A, is a bad response in my opinion, because even if it isn't true, and I highly doubt that, but let's say God isn't real. Still, reading the Bible and gleaning the wisdom that you can from that book is worth the endeavor. But also, I like the fact that I don't know for certain whether God exists or not. I like that there's, you know, the number 40, we can tell that it's important, but we don't know why. That adds to the richness of our lives to have a bit of ambiguity. If everything was just laid out in front of us, this is what all of this means, there wouldn't be any magic.

You have just witnessed reason number 806 why I love this girl. That, that is truly, truly important. I have said over and over, if God wanted us to be certain of his existence, he'd have built it in, right? By the way, miracles wouldn't work. That's another one of my repeated points in my Bible commentary. That is the genius of the stories. How many— the Israelites witnessed more miracles than any humans in history. I mean, according to Jews and Christians, let's put it that way. And they constantly doubted. God could— if you said, God, if you exist, I want all the furniture in my house to jump up and down and sing Happy Birthday. I mean, is that effective? I'm not being cute. Is that— would that be effective? Would there be any explanation? No, it wouldn't work for more than a week. People would start saying somebody played a trick on me, or I had too much to drink. I don't know what they would say. There is no way, the way we are created, that God could offer conclusive proof unless he were with you 24/7.

So that anecdote that you just said made me think of a story. When I was in 9th grade, I was thinking one day, you know, is God real? And I was— I asked for a sign, and I said, if I trip tomorrow, I will know that God was real. And I totally forgot about it.

Really?

Yes. It was just sort of like a fleeting thought I had on the bus ride home. Is God real? If he is, if I trip tomorrow, I'll know he is. Again, I totally let it go, went back home, did my 7 hours of homework, went to sleep. That next day at school, our lunch hour finished, and I remember I was kind of running upstairs to make my class in time, and I tripped over a lunchbox. And it was so funny. I was with my friend.

And did it trigger the remembrance?

And it triggered, yes, it triggered it. And so I was with my friend and I tripped over it, and she was like, oh gosh, are you okay? I didn't fall, but I just tripped. And I just stopped and I turned to her and I went, God is real!

She must have thought you're nuts.

She thought I was nuts. And then I was like, I was on the bus yesterday and I thought if God is real, he's gonna have me trip tomorrow and it's true. And she just looked at me like, okay, yeah.

But obviously that stuff doesn't work.

No, it doesn't.

I just want to note though that there was a rabbi, an Orthodox rabbi, and I quote him in one of my books. Emmanuel Rachmaninoff. I knew him somewhat, and he was a great man. And he wrote— again, he's an Orthodox rabbi, big believer, totally observant Jew— and said, God created doubt. I thought it was a brilliant line.

Well, God created everything, right?

Well, but he specifically—

yes.

When we are absolutely certain, it doesn't seem to work to our benefit. So there was another answer though to your friends saying, oh, I want to read the Bible, I don't believe it's true. It's a non-sequitur. The reason to read the Bible is not, is not for historical truth, although it's there. It's for wisdom. And then ask them this: what do you read for wisdom? They won't have an answer.

They will actually. They would say literature.

Yeah, I'm sure they're reading literature. Give me a break. I know when they're not in school— oh really, they're picking up Tolstoy? Uh, I, I— it's, it's— I know you're right. I know it's not true.

Well, they would say that we read it in school.

Yeah, I— right. Okay, good. So give me an example of, of a wisdom lesson you got from What, what, Dickens? I'm— and they could. Dickens is great. I just like to know what it is. By the way, you can get a BA in English at UCLA without reading Shakespeare. Oh God, there's a worse example. There's actually a worse— oh yes, you can now get a BA in Classics. Oh, without, without knowing Greek or Latin?

Yes. See, I think that I mean, I love that line that God created doubt because I think that having the doubt makes us into stronger people. And one of the things about religion that I like is that it forces you to reconcile contradictions in your mind or be okay with contradictions. What that statement of my friend's reveals is that they don't want to have to wrestle with uncertainty. They don't want to have to wrestle with contradictions. Religious people have to do that all the time. Look at the essence of Christianity. It's that God came into human form and suffered in order to save us from our sins. That's a contradiction. Wait, so God is, as you like to say, doesn't— what's the word? Incorporeal?

Incorporeal.

Yeah, that's what I said. You just heard me wrong. I pronounced it right. Sean, edit it out. Edit it out.

She is messing with me and I'm totally okay with it.

Edit it out. Oh, he's not going to edit it out. Okay, that word, yes. So the contradiction is God doesn't assume human form.

Right, the non-physical form became physical.

Became physical. Or also, why is God a good God, but yet he allows suffering? Even in the Bible, you see there's contradiction in the first 2 or 3 stories. Noah is a righteous man, and yet he has that terrible son Lot. And I like that religion forces you to understand that two things can be true at once.

Lot was not his son.

Yeah, I didn't say Lot. I said the real name of his son, which is what? I'm messing with you again. I did say Lot. Isn't his son Lot?

I don't think so.

Sean, can you Google it?

His sons are Shem, Shem, Ham, and Japheth. I can't do it in English.

So is Lot not one of the sons?

No, Lot is not one of his sons.

Oh God. Okay, well, clearly I'm hitting a home run today.

Let me say, well, the incorporeal was more embarrassing. Now, that's a joke. I'm ribbing you, which is a very great credit to you because most men don't rib women. The fact that you don't know who the sons of Noah are, it's not important.

Fair enough. By name, by name. I know the stories, obviously.

And you know the lessons, which is everything. By the way, another thing, when they say to you, well, I don't, I don't know if it's true, uh, I— you wouldn't say this because it's insulting, but what I would think is, oh, you really, you are that committed to truth? So let me ask you, is sex binary or non-binary?

Well, yes.

I mean, obviously they're being No, no, no, they don't because it's not even hypocritical. They don't think it's true.

It doesn't register. That's the point. Yes, but what I like, the point that I was trying to make and clearly I stumbled on two things, but is that religion teaches you that two things can be true at once. God can both be good and allow evil. God can both be incorporeal and assume human form. And that just in life, allows you to be okay with uncertainty or okay when things are vague or not fully explainable. My peers don't have the ability to think that way. They need everything to be proven by science and rationality and—

No, and 100% true.

Yes. And that is sad.

It's worse than sad, it's calamitous. Because how do they determine what is true? By consensus, a consensus of scientists say that we have to stop all carbon emissions by X year. It's a consensus. Not all scientists say it. So they sort of take a vote on what is true. The consensus was that masks had to go on 2-year-olds. Now that is regarded as child abuse, which is how I regarded it during the time. Just for the record, you did. I was right on virtually every— I don't care if this sounds like a brag, I have been right on virtually every issue that I have differed with the majority on in my life, especially ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine, which back when you were saying it was— and lockdowns, I said, you know, the greatest international mistake in history. And it's— it— all you need to do is think. All you need to do is read. But they— they— consensus Like science is based on consensus, right? Truth is based on consensus.

Well, that's— I mean, that's why they—

they're committed to truth. Ask them how many blacks, unarmed blacks, a year are killed by police. That, that's a giveaway. They'll all probably say 1,000, and the number is like 23.

But my, my peers, what they do— and again, I, by the way, I'm I'm trying to be more aware of the fact that I say my peers a lot, and that when I'm talking about—

Is your age group.

Yes, but I don't know, I don't wanna come off as if I'm picking on all of them. I have many friends in that cohort. Oh, you already know that. And I'm also not trying to sound like I somehow know better, or like I'm smarter. Anyway, I'm aware that I say that a lot, and I'm trying to not. But even though I just said I'm trying to work on not saying it, let me say that My peers do have this allegiance to certainty, and you're right that it's calamitous, but it also makes their lives really bleak because, and I've said this before, they become psychic amputees. They eliminate parts of their psyche that they would otherwise explore because they want such certainty about things. And one of the biggest examples is religion, and what a tragedy A, for humanity, but B, for themselves and their own life enrichment, that they are not going to read the Bible or even pursue religious studies because they think, oh, well, what if it's just all false? It's sad.

You nailed it.

It's very sad. And you're absolutely right to say that's why they fully trust scientists because—

No, no, consensus of scientists.

Right.

And experts. And as I said, this idea of experts to this generation, experts said, is the same as two generations ago, the thus spake the Lord. This is thus spake the experts.

You're right.

And look, here's another, another one for you. So all these revelations are coming out about Twitter suppressing conservatives. So my favorite insight of this past year, and we're nearing the end of the year, my favorite Dennis insight—

oh, I know what you're gonna say, the fireside chat.

Yes, when the guy asked, how do I know who's telling the truth, left or right? And I, I just came up with the answer I should have had 40 years ago. Use 40 again. And that is If whoever is suppressing speech is lying, we don't suppress speech. Conservatives don't give a damn. I am for allowing people I consider pure evil— I think, and I wrote my column on, they're going to hell— Holocaust deniers. They're truly, they're, they're among the evil of the evil. But I am not for suppressing their free speech. We, we don't suppress speech. The left does. Because if truth is allowed out, there is no left. The left—

it's a brilliant point.

Oh, it's everything. And, and Twitter proved it. Yeah, if a scientist— that's why it's not true. They don't believe in scientists. They believe in the scientists who they want to agree with because the left told them to agree with them. All the scientists— you know about the Great Barrington Declaration?

No.

Wow. You know what's going to happen? Let me look at you, ladies and gentlemen. Is that my camera? Yeah. Julie is going to go right after this and Google it. Not only— no, no, not just Google it. She will memorize it.

Oh yes.

She will tell you how many scientists signed it.

Oh yes.

Where Great Barrington is. Vermont. And— or is it New Hampshire? It's either Vermont or New Hampshire. And Anyway, they, in the middle of the crisis, these brave thousands of people in the sciences said, this is all, you're just being fed nonsense about, about everything, and masks and, and lockdowns. And it was completely ignored by the mainstream media. That's why you don't know about it. Oh, Great Barrington is in Massachusetts. Oh, okay. Well, I got New England right.

Yeah, you did. Uh, anyway, you're so right. I'm going to go home, become an expert on this now.

But isn't it interesting that you even don't know about it?

Yes, it is.

The blanketing of the, the scientists, the, the— all these people who say believe in science, it's not true. They believe in science as reported by the mainstream media. They don't believe in science, right? Science has no justification for masks on toddlers.

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Especially in young people.

Especially in young people. And also this Pfizer executive testified before the European Parliament a few months ago and said that Pfizer had no evidence when the vaccines were rolling out that their vaccine prevented transmissibility. And that was the whole left-wing argument that you have to take the vaccine because if you don't, then you're putting someone else at risk. So anyway, I said to her, I would really urge you to reconsider given how young you are, given that you're a female, And to her credit, she said, okay, I will, you know, I'll hear what you have to say. Could you send me some articles? So one of the things that I sent her was that Denmark is no longer offering vaccines to people under 50. And I said, and by the way, I sent her these other studies from Naomi Wolf on Substack that your investigator wife Sue sent to me. You know, I just, I had a lot of other pieces of evidence, but I just said, Putting that aside, even the fact that Denmark is no longer offering the vaccine to people under 50, doesn't that tell you something? And her response was so interesting to me. She said, oh, well, Denmark's not rolling back their vaccines for people who are young because the vaccine is bad. They're just trying to give it to the older population. They would tell us, my friend said. They would tell us if it's because the vaccine was harmful.

That's what they did say. They didn't say it was in order to preserve it for old people.

Really?

What? Wait, you read that the only reason that the Danish government gave was to—

No, I didn't read that that was the only reason, but I, but I read that is the principal reason. And they did not read anything that said that the vaccine was harmful.

I'll have to send that to you. That's fascinating.

Oh, really? So they came out and said it was harmful?

To the best of my knowledge. I don't even remember the old people argument. Anyway, that's bizarre. It's the only country in the Western world that didn't have enough vaccine for old people.

Look, I could be wrong. I don't think that they said that they— that the vaccine was harmful.

No, you may be right, but it doesn't make sense the other way.

No, it doesn't.

Why would it be the— it's a rich country. Why would it be the only country in the Western world that didn't have enough? It's a tiny country, too. They just buy more.

But the point is, my friend couldn't see what was really happening. She just bought whatever excuse the Danish government was saying. And I just thought, like, isn't this obvious to, like, a government isn't going to admit, hey, I just forced this vaccine on you citizens, and now I feel bad about it because it was actually harmful. So I'm gonna admit to you that I made a mistake. No, that's not how governments work. And the US government does it.

Does your friend know that all the scientists who are now speaking of myocarditis in young people?

No. No.

Are you familiar with that?

I am, because of your wife, but I wouldn't be if not for your wife, who literally spends all day researching and investigating this stuff. But I just, I looked at my friend and I thought, you're such a smart girl, why are you succumbing to this?

It's very, the whole thing, it's painful.

Well, it goes back to me.

Forgive me, I just want—

No, go on, please.

I know the importance of repetition for people especially listening to anything that has any continuity, like any broadcast. You forget what you heard that was important. People who suppress speech are lying. Just remember that. That's what the left does. It's what they did with Twitter. That's what they do on Google. That's what they do on YouTube. That's what they do on CBS, NBC— CBS, NBC, I said NBC— PBS, NPR, New York Times, Washington Post, LA Times. They suppress the news that doesn't agree with them. End of issue. Do you know that? You know, I think, I think we mentioned this on a DNJ broadcast that the New York Times fired its long, long-term editor of the opinion page because he published a Republican senator. Did you know that?

I didn't.

Oh, wow. You got to look that up. That happened last year. He published the view of a Republican senator, and that is verboten at the New York Times.

Not shocking. You know, the New York Times business section this past weekend, I was leafing through it. I subscribe to the New York Times because I think it's just— it's good to read.

And we do too. Right.

And see what sludge they are trying to throw at us. But so I looked at the New York Times business section and they did this whole spread on Twitter. And I thought, oh, they're going to acknowledge the Twitter Files. I mean, I wasn't expecting them to be honest about it, but I thought at least, I mean, they're a national newspaper, they're going to acknowledge it. No, the entire New York Times business section article about Twitter that this past weekend was about how there's a rise in hate speech. And they had this like graphic and they said, anti-Semitic hate comments gone up by 300%. 'Anti-Black comments gone up by 400%.' I'm like, 'You're not even going to acknowledge the Twitter Files?

Really?' That's right.

But the reason why I brought up my friend and the believing the Danish government is that I do think it fits into what you said about the people who are suppressing speech are the ones that are trying to hide the truth. We've just become far too gullible. And we've lost our ability to have skepticism. Obviously, my friend who believes the lies of the Danish government is one example. But another example is I talk to people a lot about, even before these Twitter Files came out, about the suppression of free speech on Twitter. The New York Post, we all knew that Twitter suppressed the New York Post's account after they published the Hunter Biden story. And again, the response that I would get from people was, oh, well, they must be doing it for a reason. I mean, they wouldn't, you know, they say that they like free speech. They have to just be suppressing it because it must be Russian disinformation. I'm like, what? How have we become so gullible? How have we lost our ability to see when people are BSing us?

So what you do if you believe something is Russian disinformation, this is what a liberal would have done 30 years ago. A liberal, you publish what the New York Post published, and you publish 10 articles or whatever many you want showing why you think it's Russian disinformation.

You—

if you think something is a lie, it's a great point, you counter it with truth. They have no truth to counter it with, so they suppress us.

You're so right about that.

You can't defend or believe the left because of all the suppression of dissent that they do. I, it I put the onus on you, the American who believes anything the left says, given their record of suppressing all dissent.

You're right.

Yeah, you are. You are doing something immoral. And lies kill countries.

And also, to your point, if it really is a lie or if it really is Russian disinformation, you want to put it out there and you want to let people know this is right.

Give your evidence and give your evidence.

That's right.

That's what— that's, uh, lies are defeated by truths, not by suppression. That's the reason the greatest lie, uh, Holocaust denial— I, I— in Russia— in Russia— in Europe, it's banned. You go to prison if you deny the Holocaust in Europe. Did you know that?

No.

Yes.

Wow, there's a lot I'm learning on this show today.

That's right. That's funny. By the way, that's going to become increasingly difficult Given your mastery of quick mastery of events. But anyway, that is the case in Europe. And I, as a Jew and as a lover of truth and as one who hates Holocaust deniers, they're the scum of the earth. I still want to allow them to say what the vile that they want. By the way, I have a great question which I wrote about this in my article on they're going to hell in my opinion, Holocaust deniers. Not any other genocide is denied.

Hmm.

This— and there's more— there's more evidence for the Holocaust than for the 60 million Chinese, for the 40 million in the Soviet Union, than for the 5 million Ukrainians.

Right.

There's way more evidence. But nobody goes around saying, oh, the Soviets, they never— Stalin never starved 5 million Ukrainians.

So I have a question about that. Before I ask, Do you agree with the rule in Europe about arresting Holocaust deniers? Because I know you say—

No, I don't.

Right.

That's my point. Yeah.

Well, I know you were saying that you still want them to be able to speak, but I was wondering also about the arrest component. I would agree with you.

Well, that means you're not allowing them to speak.

Right.

Well, you can say anything except fire in a crowded theater. That's basically the way free speech works.

So I've asked you this before. Different iteration of the question, but why do you think it is that the Holocaust is denied?

Because people hate Jews, and I just gave the proof. Nobody hates Ukrainians. Nobody hates the Cambodians. Nobody's denying the Cambodian genocide or the Chinese genocide. Jew hatred is the unique hatred, to make up a word, in the world. That's why I wrote a book, Why the Jews, and it explains its uniqueness and why it's unique. And it's because the Jews bug people. Sometimes, by the way, some Jews really do. But George Soros is a piece of crap. But George Soros is Jewish as, as you are, uh, a, an antelope. He has no Jewish identity. He does nothing Jewish. He doesn't even— he doesn't support Israel. But he was born to Jewish parents, so Jews are stuck with this disgusting human being. But aside from that, whether or not they're— of course they're going to be individual disgusting Jews. Of course, it's the way the world works.

There's individual disgusting everyone.

No kidding. Exactly. But ultimately, it's a hatred of the people that changed the world and that introduced Ernest van den Haag. Oh, you got to read this.

Another thing I'm learning.

Oh, you got to read this. He was one of the clearest thinkers of my early years.

Oh, wow.

Ernest van den Haag. It means from The Hague, Van Den Haag. A-A-H-A-A-G. He wrote for National Review. The guy, I love the guy. He was so clear. He's a non-Jew. He wrote the clearest book on Jews I've ever read, The Jewish Mystique. And you could read it in a night. It's a very, very short book.

But I will.

Oh, you are sure you will. I'm sure a lot of people are listening or watching will. And he, he pointed out the Jews bugged the world. They brought in an invisible moral judge, and nobody likes that. And, and said they were the chosen people. That really drove—

right. Well, we, we spoke about that a few episodes ago. I thought it was fascinating that you stipulate that a lot of people do believe in Jewish chosenness, and that's what bugs them so much.

Yes, right. Yes, the, the anti-Semite believes in it and hates the Jews for it.

You know, you were just talking about how that author speaks with such clarity. As an aside, it's one of the million exit ramps that we go off on the show, but one of the million what? Exit ramps that we go off on this show.

I thought you said exoram.

You thought I was going to teach you a word today?

Yes, I did.

Maybe I still can.

Maybe.

But I Speaking of clarity, I've been going back and rereading some of the philosophy books that I was assigned in my senior year of college in my modern philosophy class. So I reread Machiavelli's The Prince. I was rereading Rousseau's Discourses because I just like to refresh my memory and I enjoy reading these people. And I was also rereading Beyond Good and Evil by Nietzsche. And I had this idea that people from many centuries ago spoke in archaic, excuse me, convoluted language because that's the only way that they knew how to speak. And to some extent, that's true. But then I had this realization last night. Machiavelli's The Prince is a very clear book. He honestly writes like you. He's very to the point. He's concise. It's palatable, understandable. He wrote that book in the early 1500s. Rousseau and Nietzsche, on the other hand, are the dead opposite of Machiavelli or you. They are the most convoluted writers. You read one sentence, it takes you 40 minutes to understand just what they're saying. It's beyond awful. And they wrote their books in the either the 1700s or the 1800s. So Machiavelli, even though he was older, wrote with more clarity than these other two philosophers who wrote later, and it shows that people could write with clarity back then. Yes, of course, in some ways they used different diction than we do now, but they could write with clarity. So I am convinced, and I'm interested to hear what your thoughts are on this, I am convinced that people like Rousseau and Nietzsche would write that way to purposely confuse you and/or to purposely sound smart. I'd like to introduce you to Monorail, America's investment app that takes you from where you are to where you want to be. Monorail is an investment and savings app that is made for patriots by patriots. It doesn't matter whether you're an Apple fan or if you prefer Android. Monorail is available in both environments. And online at monorail.com. Monorail is safer for users with bank-level encryption and biometrics. Your money is protected with Monorail through Securities Investor Protection Corporation and the FDIC. No matter how you engage with Monorail, you're getting the security and safety that you need, whether you're adding funds to your investment account, looking to buy a stock, or putting money aside for future purchases. With Monorail, you can put your money where it matters and utilize the economic power that built this country. Don't go somewhere else to trade stocks. Monorail gives you the freedom to purchase whole or fractional shares in companies that you believe in. It only takes 5 minutes to download the app and set it up. Join the pro-America money movement. Join Monorail. Well, it was a bit of an affect. Yes, I'm the philosopher.

Nietzsche has an excuse.

Really?

Yes, he wrote in German.

Oh, okay.

All Nietzsche's like a German philosopher.

You need like a bottle of tequila after you read Nietzsche.

You have no idea. Oh my God, German philosophy is the densest. Uh, there was a— I forgot— it's a German Jewish thinker who's highly respected from the 19th century, and his name eludes me right now. And I was told by everyone, because obviously I'm so interested in writing about Judaism, you got to read his book. And I didn't get through it. I think I'm bright and I didn't understand what he was saying.

I know. Well, I would have that where I would go, I think I'm pretty smart.

You are. Well, Nietzsche is ultimately understandable in many ways, but you're right. I didn't realize that about Rousseau. I have not read Rousseau. I've read about Rousseau.

You're not missing much. I'm not a Rousseau fan.

Oh, do you know about Rousseau the person?

You mean him as a person as opposed to his— no.

Okay, so I got another book you will thank me beyond words, Intellectuals.

Oh, of course, by Paul Johnson. Yes, I'm a huge Paul Johnson fan. But I haven't read that book of his. I'm finishing a history of Christianity now.

It was a highlight in my life to have gone to Paul Johnson's home in England. What?

So is he still with us?

I'm not sure.

So what was he like? Tell me.

He was exactly as you would imagine him. Cordial.

That is true of every conservative public figure I've met, by the way, as an aside. They are exactly—

Oh, as what you would imagine.

As what I would imagine, or how I see them in your case on—

That's a very—

On the radio or TV.

That's right.

Doesn't shock me anyway. I'm sorry. Go on.

No, no, don't be sorry. There's a very important little point you made. So Sue and I were at his home, his wonderful wife. He, uh, his hobby is painting, like Churchill, and he—

and, and President Bush.

So did you see in my house the painting by Paul Johnson?

You—

so, and it's dedicated to Sue and me. It's really beautiful.

I'm sure I— is it in your dining room?

No, it's, it's in the entryway, but it doesn't matter. I'll show it to you next time.

Yeah.

'Cause you have to hear my audio system. It's twice as good as what you heard and you cried. This time you will weep.

Really?

Yeah.

You can't tell me how much it costs.

With a piano, man. I will only tell you this.

You deserve it, by the way. You don't spend money on other things superfluously.

That's what I say to people. That's my yacht.

It is your yacht.

Yes.

And see, by the way, you were talking about intellectuals and Rousseau. I don't want—

Thank you. I just want you to know.

But still, audio equipment.

Don't start me because I could—

that's why I reminded you about an electric wheelchair—

you could go to the ladies' room and change clothes and I will not have finished.

5 times over.

Right. I will just tell you that for the handful of people interested in this issue, and everybody should be because everyone loves music, they just don't know how great it could sound. Now you know. Uh, the electronics are more important than the speakers.

By the way, I'm just thinking, this is such a you thing, but it's also such a male thing. Like, women would never— men love equipment and gadgets and stuff. Like, why is that so cool to you guys?

Uh, we— when I—

don't they give you a headache and confuse all the buttons?

Like, when I see a picture of a preamplifier I get excited.

What in the name of God is preamplifiers?

When my wife brings in the mail and hands me Stereophile, my joke is, oh, I assume you read the issue already.

I have to tell you, when I worked for you—

It is to me what women's shoes are.

That's fair. That's fair. When I worked for you, I was— I mean, I felt like we could talk about so many things and we had so many interests, but then you would get so excited about— and I know what magazines you're talking about because they are all over your— no offense— disaster of a desk.

But, um, yes, I am proud of my desk.

But I would just go, why does he care so much about this? But, but in fairness, then I heard it and I get it.

That's important.

Yes, but I brought you to tears. No, hearing it was great.

You said that— was it Neil Diamond?

No, it was Billy Joel.

Billy Joel. You said you had been to a concert.

Yeah.

I just want to say for the record, it brought you to tears.

It did.

And it really was incredible that it sounded better than when you were there live.

Yes.

Okay. Okay. Just want people to know. Now it's twice as good as what you heard then. Anyway, back to Rousseau. Rousseau was a despicable human being. This is the guy who argued in the French Enlightenment people are basically good.

Civilization corrupts you.

He abandoned all his children.

Doesn't shock me. Doesn't shock me. I mean, we see that today where, you know, people proclaim certain things and then in their own lives they don't practice them. Hello, John Kerry flying on a private plane and caring to care about climate change.

I don't understand, how do they justify that? They don't want us to fly on commercial jets and then they fly on private jets.

Well, I don't know. I mean, I don't like saying that they don't have a lack of awareness because I think that gives them a pass that I don't intend to give them. But I think they are so wrapped up in themselves, in their own world, which reinforces their shabby ways of thought, that they get to a certain point where they don't realize it.

Demand that restaurants close and that we must wear masks and then goes maskless into a restaurant. See, I don't call that hypocrisy.

That's just fraudulence. It's right.

That's right. It is. It means they don't believe their lies, right? If he believed that, that maskless will kill you, he wouldn't have gone maskless.

One of the most unique parts of my life, in my view, is that I feel like I've really kind of straddled extremes. Where I grew up in Los Angeles, going to private schools, in an ultra-liberal group. The people I went to school with, their parents would have Obama fundraisers or Biden, just I was in that world. And then of course now I'm in the completely opposite world, the conservative world. But let me just say, and again, I am not at all saying this as an excuse, it is just an explanation. I know from being in the Democrat liberal world that their ways of thinking are so reinforced by everyone around them that it becomes this—

That's why they can't tolerate dissent.

Right. But they literally, like, again, I'm not trying to give them a pass. I think it is fraudulent. But I really think that many of them get to a point where they just, they live in this cocoon. They don't even realize how overtly fraudulent. I mean, Harry and Meghan is another example. So they just released this Netflix documentary documentary last night. By the way, I'm sure you are as interested in this as I am with gadgets and stuff. You probably don't care, but I'll—

I follow it though, and I have comments. Go ahead.

And you know, they, they said when they were leaving the royal family, all we want is privacy. We just want to live by ourselves and have this life with our kids. Then they not only do the Oprah interview, but they have this Netflix documentary. And Dennis, for the entire hour of the first episode, they're showing intimate photographs of them when they were dating. You know, they're, they're, they're pictures of their first date. They show pictures of their young children with their faces, or they're in diapers, or they're— and they— there's even pictures of, of them snuggling with their children in bed. And I'm like, I— how can you in good faith say that you want privacy and you are literally peeling back the curtain and showing us the most intimate moments of your family life? But again, I don't think that it registers with them because they just surround themselves with people who will fawn over them and praise them. So it's this self-perpetuating cycle.

I'm debating whether to say this because it's insulting and I—

Oh, say it. Whenever you're debating whether or not to say something on the Dennis and Julie Podcast, we always go for it.

They, they are— I'll put it this way— they are superficial to my, in my estimation, as, as any of the real-life dramas on TV.

Oh, totally.

They are truly superficial human beings. The narcissism is so deep that it's painful to watch, but in our age It's reinforced. Whereas the, the, the brother who has dignity and his wife. Yes, they have dignity.

They do.

I love dignity. And that's why I have such contempt for Meghan and Harry.

And Harry, I'm proud of you that you got one of the two names.

I'm proud of me too. I always have to figure out which is Harry, which is William, because, you know, they're both—

Harry's the redhead.

Yeah, yeah, no, I know that when I really push it.

So this discussion of Harry and Meghan makes me think of something else that we talked about off air that I want to bring here. Obviously, as I was saying, growing up— well, I shouldn't say obviously, but it's obvious to me that growing up in the LA liberal woke environment that I did, I encountered a lot of celebrities. And obviously the vast majority of Hollywood celebrities are Democrats. And I was telling Dennis this over the phone the other day and I said, you know, it's paradoxical to me because I have to say that most, at least the ones that I met, most of them were really nice. I would see them be nice to their fans, take selfies, be nice to waiters or staff people, be nice to the people if they had a child at my school. And I would look at them and I'd go, wow, I really admire your graciousness and your kindness. Again, this isn't true of all celebrities, but The handful that I'm thinking of were very nice. But then, you know, I open up the magazines and I see that they're going to the Biden White House or they're giving money to Karen Bass, who's Los Angeles's new horrible mayor who supported defunding the police and she supports all these DEI initiatives. And I just, what I raised with Dennis is, how is it possible for people to be so nice and so decent on one level, and then on another level, they support these candidates and these policies that are killing our country. And you said something to me that I thought was really interesting. You said there's a difference between micro and macro morality, that those celebrities that I'm referencing may have an allegiance to morality on a micro level, but they're not morally deep. Did I characterize it fairly?

Well, it works in both directions. There are micro not nice, macro awesome.

Yes, yes, and I've seen that too.

Well, I think Donald Trump was an example.

Yes, yeah, he is the example.

Well, he's the best known example today, but he would not be the only one. There There are people who have done great good who were personally not that impressive. They didn't— they probably didn't— or not probably— there are people who didn't treat people necessarily great in their lives. We really are morally two different people, macro and micro, and the, the number of nice people who damage society is very large.

So, and you kind of asked an iteration of this question a few minutes ago, but to me it's so antithetical to my macro morality to be immoral on a micro level, and vice versa. It's antithetical to my— I see those as linked.

That's right.

So explain to me, but they're obviously not. But how to someone who values one so much, how can they not see—

well, what they do is they say, look, I'm a nice person, so I'm just going to apply to public policy my niceness. So let's be nice to everybody and let's open up the prisons because society is at fault more than the people in prisons are at fault. So they apply their niceness in arenas where it shouldn't be applied. That's why there are so many homeless. We used to say you can't live on the street. And they didn't.

I mean, obviously though, it's not nice to have homeless people on the street. I know they probably think that they're pursuing the nice policy.

Yes, they do, that's right.

But it's not, the outcome is not nice.

Well, when you have no wisdom, all you do is ask what's nice.

See, this, I think you actually may have said this on a broadcast, but I have been saying this for years, and my family can tell you, it's like my Julie quote. People's best qualities also are their worst qualities. So in the example you just gave, the best quality is that they're nice on a micro level, but their worst quality is that they extend that niceness to where, as I just mentioned, Machiavelli would say, to where it becomes cruelty.

Yeah, that's exactly what they do. And that way they don't have to think through any issue. They only have to ask, how, how can I be nice? So how does it work Minimum wage will raise the minimum wage because the person can't feed a family on the minimum wage. So what— that is why people got out of minimum wage jobs, minimum wage jobs very quickly. It was a way to start out life and learn and learn hard work habits.

But don't they see at the end of the rainbow that it doesn't end up the way that they think they do?

Okay.

Or think it will.

The moment you ask the end of the rainbow, you become a conservative.

Yes, you're right. So how does it work on the other end? So you mentioned someone like Trump who's good on a macro level, but not so much on a micro. Right. What do you think their justification is in his mind? Yes. I—

if Donald Trump thought about micro versus macro morality, he wouldn't be Donald Trump for one minute. I'll shine his shoes for the rest of his life.

That's funny.

It's a, it's a non-issue. People don't think through almost any issue. That, that's been a, a reason for the popularity of my work. I think through and then explain, and then people go, wow, I didn't think of that, I didn't think of that, I didn't think of that. That, that's, that's what I've tried to do for people. I, I get paid to think things through.

You say you're an explainer.

I'm an explainer.

An interpreter.

That's exactly right.

But I find it increasingly hard to surround myself with people who are good on one end or not good on the other.

I couldn't agree with you.

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So, Jules, I got a question for you.

Dating?

Uh, no. Who are you?

Whenever you say you have a question for me—

Yeah, no, I've never asked you this. Okay, certainly not publicly, but given what I said at the beginning about your openness and mine—

Mm-hmm.

So you're very, very successful at a very young age. It's just a fact. It's not a compliment, it's a fact. It's like saying you're a female, it's just a— it's a fact. So I think a lot of people are wondering what that's done to you, and I, I would be interested to hear you formulate. The obvious question is, has it made you more arrogant, even a teeny beanie eeny teeny teensy weeny bit. But it hasn't, by the way, from my perspective. But, and if it did, if it hasn't, that's the more interesting question. I don't think it has. Why hasn't it?

Well, I will answer in a way that may seem to be arrogant or self-aggrandizing, and I certainly don't mean it to be. But for my whole life, I have achieved at a very high level. When I was young, and I mean really young, I was one of the top swimmers in Los Angeles. I also played soccer. Our team, when I was 12 years old, was the third best team in the state. So I was just constantly traveling, playing sports at a really high level. Then in high school, I was always working, getting straight A's, on student council. Obviously, I got into Harvard. For my whole life, I've kind of achieved, achieved, achieved. And I've been thinking a lot about, you know, is that— I mean, you know Dennis from off the air probably as well as on the air that I've gotten— I've tried to shed that mentality of obsession with achievement. But what I have not shed is the intense self-criticism that comes alongside it. So to answer your question as far as arrogance, I don't think I've gotten more arrogant. I certainly hope not. A, because you know I detest that quality in people. If I sniff out one iota of arrogance in someone, I immediately don't like them. So I hate that quality. But also, just for my entire life, the way that I have been able to achieve the way that I have, again, I'm sorry if that sounds self-aggrandizing, but it's true, is by relentlessly criticizing myself and expecting perfection out of myself. So that's what's pushed me forward. And I'm trying to get rid of that intense self-criticism alongside the obsession with achievement because neither one is healthy.

So I think it answered my question. So I'll inject me now, please, because it's, it's the two of us. So I was in my way as successful as you at your age, which was— and there, there was no media that, that allowed for it. I was just traveling around the country already giving lectures. At 21, I was sent by Israel to the Soviet Union, which started everything. I mean, even that was an amazing— can you imagine that? Height of Cold War, the Israeli government sending you in for a month.

That's pretty cool to be anointed by a government.

Yes, at 21.

Especially with a task as consequential as that one.

So, and even that was preceded with achievement because I was the one sophomore at my college to get this award to study abroad for no money. And that enabled me to then go to Israel, and then they sent me to— so anyway, everything followed. So if someone would have asked me at your age, 23, you know, you're really successful, abnormally so, are you arrogant? And I would have had the same answer you did. And you know me, so I feel I could totally say this, and I don't think just about anyone who listens to me thinks that I am, and I'm not. I mean, it's as simple as that. It— I don't even understand the trait. I understand selfishness. I understand laziness. I understand non-self-discipline. I understand a lot.

Agree with you.

I don't, I don't get it right. All—

don't you know that you look like a I don't want to curse. Don't you know that you look like an a-hole when you're arrogant? And also, it's just, why do you think so highly of yourself, right? I mean, you're not that great.

All I, all I, I thought— so I thought one thing I thought was I'm incredibly lucky.

Yes, I think that too.

Yes. Now, I worked hard and all of that stuff, and you, you worked even harder, uh, but That was a very big part of it. But here is the other part, which will sound to people— and this is why Dennis and Julie is such an open, rare thing. So I know I would have never said this on the radio. Not that I hide it, it just doesn't arise as it does in a dialogue. So I knew I was given gifts. I knew it very early. My diary is this. I have mentioned on a number of occasions I wrote it in my junior year in high school. I'm going to devote my life to influencing people to the good. So forgetting that the moral sentiment that I thought that I could influence people as a junior in high school gives you an idea of my self-image. And so when all these things happened, I thought Well, that makes sense. That's what I'm here for. I'm here to touch people. So every, every abnormal achievement— that's the— those are the words I used in my— it makes sense. I'm here on Earth to do something, and, and by golly, at this age, I'm being allowed to do it. Makes sense?

Oh, of course. I mean, it resonates hugely. I think of myself as one of the luckiest people on the planet. And lucky, A, because I've had such great opportunities, but also lucky because I've been given such great gifts. But I think what— and this is why I was bringing up the self-criticism component— I think my self-criticism component keeps me from becoming arrogant. I don't think it would be within me to be arrogant anyway, but I know how lucky I am and I'm constantly asking myself, are you taking advantage of your opportunities? Are you taking advantage of each of your gifts? What could you be doing more? Are you doing enough? How could you— I'm constantly like, you're so lucky, you need to maximize it, take advantage of it to the fullest extent that you can. And so that's what I think arrogant people don't— it's, it's an interesting question. Do arrogant people recognize that they're lucky for whatever accomplishments or whatever circumstances they have? I don't know.

Well, on the other hand, we identify it instantly, or you at least, people like us, we identify it in others. So I'll tell you, I don't have the same thing you have.

The, the self-criticism. I know, I envy you.

I envy me too. It's, it's a gift. I mean, obviously I, I work to be really, really good at what I do, but I, I don't excoriate myself like you do. What keeps me in check, my equivalent has been religiosity, because when I meet a human being, I was taught in yeshiva, you know, all intense religious education, over and over and over, every human being is created in God's image, and that's how you're to treat them. So at a speech, if I meet somebody who, who is, you know, awful looking, which is rare, but you know, just the— and a lost soul, obviously a lost soul. And anyway, all sorts of sad things about the person. All I think of, this person is in God's image just like I am. And that has had a very big impact. So we have come to the non-arrogance, as it were, through different— well, you weren't raised religious, so, so you couldn't have come through this vehicle.

Well, I think I actually did, but I didn't— I've, I've realized, especially really through this podcast, that I always had religious instincts, but I didn't know that they were religious. For instance, from the time that I was young, I always thought that it was important for, for me to I don't know if the language in my head was specifically the, the word honor as it is in the Ten Commandments, but, but I always thought it was important to honor my parents. MyPillow is excited to bring you their biggest bedding sale ever, and just in time for Christmas. For a limited time, get the Giza Dream bed sheets for as low as $29.98, a set of pillowcases for only $9.98, and rejuvenate your bed with a MyPillow mattress topper for as low as $99.99. They also have blankets in a variety of sizes, colors, and styles. They have blankets for your pets too. Get duvets, quilts, down comforters, body pillows, bolster pillows, and so much more. All with the biggest discounts of the year are happening now. They are also extending their money-back guarantee for Christmas until March 1st, 2023, making them the perfect gifts for your friends, your family, and everyone you know. So go to mypillow.com and use the promo code Hartman, or call 1-800-566-6745, and you'll get huge discounts on all MyPillow bedding products, including the Giza Dream bed sheets, for as low as $29.98. And get all your shopping done now while quantities last. Just from a very young age, I thought, these are my parents, you know. And by the way, it's easy to honor my parents because they're such great people. But even in times when I'm annoyed with them or they're driving me crazy, I just always thought I have to be polite to them. I have to be decent to them. What?

Awesome moment.

When I said they drive me crazy?

Right after they're awesome people. And yet they drive me crazy.

But see that's—

No, that's fine.

No, but actually I'm glad you highlighted that because this is proving my point. I feel like I have to say that they're awesome before I can say that sometimes they drive me crazy, because that's the way—

that was beautiful.

It's actually proving my point.

It does.

I'm like, I never want to speak ill of my parents. I mean, especially in— I mean, this is a separate topic, but especially in the public forum, that—

right.

I will never— I have a rule.

You don't relate to, uh, Meghan Markle?

No. And, and that's why I'm so disgusted with them. It's like, you know, my number one rule of broadcasting, I think I said this at the Shabbat dinner the other night, is I will always protect my family. I mean, if one of my family members kills someone, I'm not gonna like deny that they killed someone. You know what I mean by it. I will never publicly talk about them in a mean way. Anyway, I had, well, certainly conservative, but also religious instincts. From a very young age, I just knew I must honor my parents. From a young age, I also had that view of I, I, you know, it's interesting. I think I did kind of think of it in a God way, like God created all of us and we're the same. And my sister, my sister Gina, the— my, my sister who has autism, she I think gave me that religious outlook without—

and a sense of the tragic.

Yes, the sense of the tragic.

And right there, but for the grace of God, or there but for the grace of luck, go I. So I have proof, by the way, as an example It happened. I talked about this with Jordan Peterson, and I'll tell you why I did in a moment. So here I am, 21 years old, and I'm being sent to places to give lectures. I mean, it's amazing, obviously. And I remember very early on, so generally it's, it's, uh, lecture and Q&A. Everyone assumes the lecturer goes home after the Q&A, questions and answers. So I remember confronting this issue very early on. People would line up to ask me more questions. This was— there were no selfies. That's not— they didn't take pictures. They, they, uh, what, what else do people do? Yeah, I guess, I guess. Oh yeah, nobody— I had no book to autograph. So it was just people lining up to ask questions. Everyone assumed I'm leaving, and I said to myself, wait a minute, who the hell am I?

Totally to leave. Yes.

First of all, I thought I'm younger than all of these people, and I'm gonna say bye-bye, I got to get home. Who the hell am I?

And they're supporting you.

Yes, by the way, and I did it I've done it the rest of my life. I mean, if there were 1,000 people, I can't stay. I can't stay. Obviously, there are times where it's just not feasible. But overwhelmingly, that is what I have done. And that's, that's how I met Sue. She was the last one.

I know, I was about to say, that was God's reward to you.

That's why I've always looked at it that way. Yes, she was the last one.

Doing that for hours and hours and hours, not just in that one speech, but just your whole lifetime of That's right.

Yes. No, no, I mean a reward for a lifetime of doing that. But that, that's really how I do feel. Who the hell am I to just walk away? And it's very deep in me. I know my worth. I'm not— I don't walk around thinking, oh, I'm a nothing. Anyway, if you think you're nothing, it's probably arrogant. Who are you to think you're enough?

You know, this goes back to the thing that you raise often, and it's always profound and interesting, is this question of natures. Because intellectually, I've always told myself not to be arrogant or to honor my parents or to see everyone as the same. But also, that was just— I can't describe it, but it didn't take intellectual effort. It was just always in me to treat people like that. It just was never an option for me to be rude to someone.

Right. So let's say it was. This is my question. Let's say it was your nature. Can you conquer it? Can one conquer it? Not can you, Julie.

I think so.

Okay, that's the question. Where, where your, your instinct is self-centered and arrogant, and you say, I, I can't, I just can't act that way. Who the hell am I?

Well, Sean and I were talking about this off air yesterday, and he— I hope you don't mind, Sean, but too late, I'm saying it. He said something. I thought it was a great line. He said, you know, God gave us a brain to use it. God gave us the ability to conquer. I don't know if we were talking— I forget what context it was, but it was basically about struggles that you have in life. And God gave you the ability to to conquer them. And so I agree with him. I really believe that obviously it can be harder for some people, those who were born with a proclivity to be, you know, have a family history of alcoholism and have that genetic predisposition. It's harder for them to conquer their impulses. But that doesn't mean that they can't. That just means it's harder.

Yes, that's right. Well, that, that's, that's The great dividing line between people, those who fight their natures and those who don't. You know what, uh, this, the putz, I don't know if you know it. Did you ever hear the term putz?

Of course, yes.

That is interesting. I thought it was a New York Jewish term.

Well, I learned it in college from one of my New York Jewish friends.

Okay, fair enough. It's Yiddish for, uh, basically for— okay, we'll leave it at that.

It's a great word. Maybe I'll—

It is a great word.

Maybe I will use that word as a substitute for the other words that I've used.

Because you can get away with it. It's in another language. So I consider him a putz. And fascinatingly—

I'm sorry, wait, who's a putz?

William. Harry. Harry. I knew I'd get that mixed up. Oh my gosh. Harry. I really like William.

Harry's a putz.

Okay. William is not a putz. William is a dignified gentleman. So, Harry, this was awesome. I gotta, I gotta find it. I don't know why I didn't extract it. So I'm reading an article about him last night.

And you— yes, about them.

Oh yes, I believe it or not, I— it's like watching a car crash. You can't—

so true, you can't avert it. Yeah.

Anyway, he said 'Oh, I'm like my mum.' M-U-M, you know. 'I, I, I, I follow my heart.' And I thought, 'That's right, that's exactly what you do. You follow your heart, and that's why you're a putz.' I know what you're referring to in the documentary.

He said, 'I'm my mother's son,' and how Diana made decisions with her heart.

Oh, oh, really? Oh, it's in the documentary.

I could literally verbatim quote to you.

I'm sure you can. I know.

Yes.

You're a living recording machine.

You know, but I'll—

isn't that amazing? I mean, he brags about it. A grown man brags about being led by his heart.

Well, in fairness to him, and again, this is because I literally can recite this by heart, he said that when he was falling in love with Meghan, he made the decision with his heart to marry her. But then he said it was within the context of marrying Meghan.

Okay, fair enough.

But then he said also, my head told me that she was good for the—

No, no, no.

But by the way, you're right. I think he does generally in his life.

I didn't see the documentary. I only saw that line.

Yeah, no, it's understandable. But you're—

If I— Then look, that is what he does. But I have to be honest, that's number one. If he said it only in the context of whom he chose to marry, I understand that, right? Even then, by the way, it's not a great idea. He did say you should not be led only by your heart and who you choose to to marry. You know, you'll love my theory. I know you never heard this.

Oh, do tell.

3 parts of you should decide whom you marry.

Oh, let me guess. Yeah, your toes, your butt, and your hair.

Excellent. Uh, I'll give you a different 3. Your brain. Yes. Your heart. And what's below. The sexual part of you.

Oh, okay. Okay. I didn't know if you meant it that way or if you meant like what's below the surface.

Yeah, no, no, that's fair. So that's very important. It doesn't have to be 33, 33, 33, but all 3 have to be there. It could well be 50, 30, uh, 20, but all 3 have to make the decision.

Okay, so it was what's below the heart and the brain.

The genitalia.

Yes.

Okay, you can't say this is a fantastic human being. And I love this person for the terrific person he or she is. But I'm just not sexually interested. It's not going to work. So it could work over time. In other words, you, you could so love the person that they do become sexually attractive to you. And that happens a lot. It doesn't—

but I think that happens a lot with women.

Yes, it happens a lot with women. That's very intelligent of you to note. That is correct. It happens all the time with women. In fact, it's very rare that a woman sees a man and go, whoa, my libido is really racing. Yes, that's correct. Uh, but, but for both, my, my three-part, my tripartite decision is accurate. At the time of the wedding, both, both have to contribute to the decision. Not equally, as I said, but they both have to contribute to the decision.

So when you say, when you say that sexual attraction has to be a part of it, do you mean sexual attraction, or do you mean like you need to have sex with the person and see if they're straight?

Oh, no. Okay, so I have a position on that. I think the ideal is to wait with intercourse. Course. I actually do. It is so quaint, it almost sounds laughable to young people. But I even have non-religious reasons to make that argument, and we should discuss that one time. That'll be a heavy-duty discussion.

Can you give me a synopsis? Because I'm curious.

Oh, it's so deep and special, and it is so not necessary prior to marriage because you could do so much else. I don't agree with the religious people who say do nothing. How do you know the person isn't frigid? And then what are you gonna do, just postpone that problem to the day after marriage? Oh no, no, no, you have to know that there's a response. You have to do something. I do, I really do believe in that, at least in the day and age in which we live. You should, you need to do something, but you don't have to have intercourse. That's my position.

You know what I was thinking? So Dennis and Julie, how the hell did we start off with arrogance and success at a young age and get to intercourse?

Because it takes a certain degree of arrogance to tell people not to have intercourse.

Oh my God, we should like draw a map sometime of where we go.

Well, I think it's the appeal.

Straight, don't. No, I agree.

This is about all of life.

There's nothing like it.

There's no taboo. And, and it's all of life and it's honest. And that's right, there, there is nothing like it, that I do believe. And I hope it helps people. That's the reason I do any of this. People, people are afraid to talk about these things or to say it.

And that, that's what I want to be as a host. And I've been thinking about— there are so many things I want to accomplish as a host, but I want to be one of the people who others go to, and they know that I will discuss— I will go to places that no one else will go. I will discuss things that other people may not have the maturity or the bravery to talk about. And I'm not just talking about political stuff, I mean this real life stuff.

Yes, that's great.

Because I just want to help people live real life better.

Yeah. I think you can do it.

From your lips to God's ears. You know, I'm constantly telling myself how, you know, how I could improve or do better.

I'm well aware.

Yes, you are of all people.

Basically, your question after anything you've done—

anything—

how bad was it?

No, that's what I—

that's literally what I say. Was it good? And you will go, how bad?

I say, just tell me how bad. Just, just get it out. I do the same thing to Sean, as he knows.

And then he gives you this big list.

I know, yeah, exactly. And then I start crying and leave. No, I'm kidding.

Correct.

But you know, I actually feel bad when I do that because I can imagine it's annoying. Like, I— there are so many girls who I know who like constantly when they're getting ready, is this good? Is this good? Does my spray tan look good? And it bothers me beyond belief. I'm like, you look great, shut up. I don't want to be that person when I say how bad is it. I don't want to be like the, oh my God, I have to tell this person again that it's not as bad as they think it is. But you know, with me, it's— I'm not saying it to get a compliment. I genuinely worry that I bombed.

That's right. Okay, you didn't bomb today. Well, is that— is that a compliment?

It's reassuring. You know, actually, I'll say with these podcasts, I don't have the I don't have the same self-criticism about them that I once did. I'm thrilled we're doing this. I know this sounds so trite to say, it feels so homey. It feels— I mean, you're my homie, but it feels homey in the sense of like natural and—

Right, it is.

It is. So thank you all for listening. I mean, it's just, it's a joy to do this.

Know about to contact you.

Yes, please contact me at julie@julie-hartman.com. I know I say this every time, but I really mean it. It pains me that I cannot respond to each of you, but I read every single email that I get, so please know how much I appreciate them. It's probably the highlight of my job hearing from you, so please write in to me, and please follow us @DennisJuliePod on Twitter and Instagram and Dennis and Julie Podcast on Facebook, and we'll see you next time for number 41.

Correct.