Dennis and Julie Free Will

Hello there, everybody. Dennis Prager and Julie Hartman. Therefore, it is the Dennis and Julie Podcast, not show. Show is talk radio.

I disagree, actually. It is a show because it airs on the Salem News Channel on the weekends, so he's wrong.

I'm happy to be corrected. We talk about everything in life, and those of you who have followed us know how true that is. This really is as honest an exploration of life as I think any two people are doing in the American media. There are a lot of fine shows. I'm not claiming we're the best. I'm just claiming it's unique.

We're the best.

Okay, that's fair. I, I, so I told Julie that I have an opening question. It's not going to take a long time. It's probably not even going to get us into other rich areas. But I'm truly curious. This is not just for the sake of an interesting question, which may not even interest everybody. I don't know your answer, and I don't know—

I don't know his question.

You certainly don't. So what determines whether you wear your hair up or down when we do a broadcast?

Whether or not I'm having a good or bad hair day. Right, today I wasn't having a great hair day, so I decided to put it up. Also, what determines it is when I'm wearing good earrings, and I like these earrings, so I want to show them. And third, see, this is very methodical, I have worn my hair down far more on this show than I've worn it up, so I'm trying to spice it up. For the viewers.

You see, and I'm sure they noticed, one of the many reasons I adore you is that you think through and answer clearly. I love that. You gave me 3 valid responses.

Yep.

Just out of curiosity, since this is not clear to me as a male, and it's a totally serious question, what constitutes a bad hair day?

Okay, well, I will actually expose myself here. So I don't know if it was the last show or two shows ago. I think it was when I was wearing the orange dress. I was having a horrific hair day. Actually, I would like to take it up with you and the people in the control room because you should not have let me sit in this chair and do this broadcast. You should have sent me home to figure something out, shower again. By the way, I shower before the broadcast, both Timeless and this one, and I have this whole thing where I conditioner, I let the conditioner sit, and then I comb my hair, and then when I dry it, I'm brushing it, so it's very methodical, but sometimes it comes out great, sometimes it doesn't. The other day when we were doing the show, they film me sometimes from the back, I guess it's that camera right here, hello, camera 1, It's the angle at which the audience sees you, but you see the back of my head. I had a bump in my hair the size of a massive speed bump. I don't know a good analogy. It was like my hair was straight and then it went boop and then it went down. And it was because I had put my hair in a ponytail earlier that day and then it caused some kind of like stenching in the hair. Does that make sense? You're— what? Okay, I know it's not the most—

no, no, no, I'm ribbing you, I'm ribbing you. Uh, okay, does it make sense? Yes, it does.

It was really, really bad. And so you know what, today I think I'm a little traumatized and I'm just putting my hair up.

So I knew there would be an answer.

Oh God, do you know what I'm talking about, Sean?

Now I will get into Yeah, you know, the bump in the hair. Nobody heard what he said.

There's some disadvantages to working only with men.

Yes, but it's mostly advantageous. You admit that?

Oh, I admitted it on the last show. Totally. You guys aren't moody. I will, I will do you know what that means, to someone?

Please. I added at the other guy, the, at the gas station.

He You probably did.

Yeah, yeah.

It's when you call someone out for doing something. So I just added you guys. I called you out for not telling me. No, at, like the at sign.

Oh, I see.

It's a reference to social media when someone calls someone out.

Here, actually, there is even a deeper element to my original question, which I said would go nowhere, but it is going to go somewhere for a moment. You don't know this, but I realized this relatively recently because of my relationship with you and how close we've become. So I, I don't have a daughter, and so my dad had two. I don't have a sister, so my dad had two sons. I have two sons. My son has two sons. I, I've just been always surrounded by males.

Sue has two sons.

Sue has two sons, exactly correct. Which, by the way, is its own interesting subject, because if you are a girl and had brothers, you know men better than girls who don't.

Oh yeah.

And guys know women much better if they had sisters. So I had no sisters, and again, sons. And you, you are sort of an education in, in a young woman. I mean, obviously I'm very close to Sue, as you, as you well know, but Sue looks young but isn't young. And I'm— I— so I learn things. And it, it's— I'll tell you one of the things that this— well, it could end up a big part of the show, but I don't intend it to. I have another subject in my brain. But the, the insecurity of women with regard to their looks is somewhat educational to me. I think the average man sees an attractive woman— I don't mean a model gorgeous Hollywood attractive woman. And thinks she, she must know that she's attractive. And I think I could say, thanks to my wife and thanks to you in particular, that's not true. I, I may do that. I should do this on my male-female hour.

I'd be very curious to hear what responses you get because I don't know if we're just two sick people. Or if—

No, I think you— I think— Because I think you typify women.

Well, there's a large cohort, to use my favorite word, which by the way, I never thought was my favorite word until you pointed it out to me. There's a large cohort of females, I think, who think highly of themselves with regard to their looks.

Oh, are you sure?

Yes. They're not the types of females that I hang out with.

No, no, that's irrelevant.

The ones that broadcast their stuff on Instagram constantly.

Okay, but is that a large cohort, to use your term? Well, okay, so that is interesting. Oh, I hadn't thought of that. That, that would theoretically negate my generalization.

Also, what women do is sometimes they won't acknowledge that they look good on a certain day because they think that that's hyping themselves up or being immodest. Like, it seems cocky.

Well, of course, obviously, yes.

But I think they take it to an extreme where they will say, oh no, I look so bad, instead of just accepting the compliment.

Right. But I know from you and my wife, and I'm not saying it because I'm her husband at all, she's a very good-looking woman. And, and you're a very good-looking woman. Okay, but you see, when I say that to you ever—

oh my God, I just wanted to crawl under the table.

Right, okay, so you want to crawl under the table, or you're usually—

I look awful today.

Of course, today, right? I know yesterday you didn't think you looked awful. But, uh, her— your comment and my, my wife's comment will be, that's very kind. So it's interesting. So I want to analyze that for a moment because life is— an unanalyzed life is not a fun life. So Pete, what people— if a person says to me, uh, that was a really good speech, which is a common thing after a speech, so I know it was a good speech. But I will still say that's very kind of you. And it's a sincerely meant comment. It is kind of them. But I know it's true. By the way, I always tell people, if I didn't think I speak well, what kind of arrogance is it for me to speak publicly?

Right. I mean, that's a good point. It is a good point.

Yes, exactly. Oh, me? I don't know why the hell you're listening to me. I mean, right, then why am I talking? It's like telling the pilot, 'It's a good flight,' and he thinks, 'Really? I don't think it was that good a flight.' Well, then don't fly if you don't think you're a good pilot. I don't want you as my pilot. So when you say, 'Oh, that's kind,' you're not thinking, 'Well, I know what he says is true, but I would like to thank him for his kindness.' I think they're just Just being kind. That's what my wife thinks.

By the way—

So wait, so you don't think you and Sue are typical?

No, I don't.

Oh, that's interesting. So here I am learning all these things about women in this regard.

Because we both, if you look at the two of us, we're hard on ourselves about our looks. By the way, I just want to clarify because there are a lot of women who are hard on themselves about their looks and they go to really drastic measures to try to change themselves. I consider myself to be really lucky because though sometimes I look in the mirror and I'm like, oh my God, the bump in your hair or the, you know, your nose or, you know, I critique myself. I never ever ever had an eating disorder. I've never desired to get drastic plastic surgery or do things that some women, including at my age, do. I know people at my age who are getting Botox and filler and nose jobs. I mean, of course, I'm in a rarefied, excuse me, environment being in Los Angeles, but still, it's become a lot more common. But I just wanted to clarify that because I feel really lucky. And I do think a lot of it is luck that I have never, ever struggled with an eating disorder. But with— now I'm thinking, is it Sue and me or Sue and I always struggle with— Sue and me.

Well, I have to hear the sentence.

But with Sue and me, we are not just hard on ourselves.

By the way, do you know how to figure out—

Yes, you get rid of the other person's name.

So with me, you don't say with I.

With me and with Sue, we are not just hard on ourselves about our appearance, we're hard on ourselves about everything. Like when we talk to Sue about how well-researched and smart she is, and by the way, audience members, this woman, I swear to God, I have never met a more well-researched human being than Sue Prager.

Correct.

She is, you get her on any subject, whether it's assassinations, vaccines, American history, anything. I mean, dog food, everything.

Even the science of the vaccine.

Oh, totally.

The science, not just the epidemiological facts.

She knows everything. She knows all the relevant, I mean, it's astounding because she spends most of her day researching and we're all the beneficiaries of it because she sends us these emails with article links. Anyway, she's amazing. But when we were having dinner recently and we were talking about the JFK assassination, I said, "God, Sue, you know so much." And she's like, "No, I really don't." I really don't. I just, I know.

So you think it's across the board and you do the same thing?

I do the same thing.

Well, I can't— now I'm really aching to do this male-female hour because I will say it's interesting that you think that in this sense you and Sue are outliers, that most, most women who us men would consider attractive don't, don't think they are. May be wrong, that the generalization from the two of you may not be accurate, because I know on the Male/Female Hour, when the subject has arisen, not of self-image, but has arisen, I know that women have said to me, look, you know, I know I'm an attractive woman, and you know, da da da da da da. So there are women, And they were not boasting. They were just like answering, how is the dating scene? And when they, they might say, you know, it's very hard to find a man even though I'm attractive, which would be a perfectly good thing, rational thing to say. So I, I don't, I don't know the answer. I, I, I will say one other thing, and I, I'm, I know that I am going to be committing a sin because I'm opening up a subject that I won't pursue now, but we will on another occasion, which will fascinate you. So you said to me off, off air— I don't remember. Oh yeah, I do remember— the busyness of the female mind, which I know, as I've said, if men got a woman's mind for a day, they would— there would be mass suicide. And I'm only half joking. So you said it's difficult to be a woman. So I have two responses to that, which is also a very interesting subject, obviously. One is, it is difficult to be. Just put a period. It's difficult to be a woman, it is difficult to be a man, it's difficult to be a human being. The other response was, it's difficult to be a man, but women don't know it. And we should do that. I know I said I'm committing a sin because I'm really piquing the curiosity.

You've so intrigued me. Well, before we move on from the subject, I would like to ask you, and I've been meaning to bring it up to you off air because it's a subject that really interests me. I think you said it on our broadcast last time, or maybe again just off air recently to me, but you remarked that men commit more suicide than women, which is true. Why do you think that is?

I don't— well, well, so there's a part two to that, and then I'll answer your question. Women attempt suicide more than men.

Oh, really?

Yes, but, but it's, it's more a cry for help. I was about to say that when men try it, they mean to do it, right? So It's not, it's not, I don't have a definitive answer, but whatever the answer is, it should end the speculation. It's tougher to be a woman. Okay. I mean, if it were tougher to be a woman, more women would end their lives than men, but more men end their lives than women.

So I never understood when, when people say that it's tougher to be a woman, and by the way, this is putting aside, I mean, obviously we live in an equal society now, but this is putting aside, obviously it was tougher to be a woman 100 or 150 years ago when we didn't have the right to vote or when we couldn't work, that is true. But now in American society when people say women have it harder, I never understood that because I'm like, how do you know? You're not in the minds of men.

Right.

How can you, again, if you're talking about external things you can make a judgment.

Well, it's sort of leftist arrogance because that's a feminist line. And, you know, it's just not true. I don't claim it's harder to be a man, but I don't believe it's harder to be a woman.

I do believe, though, and this is what we were discussing, I think that women agonize more and are more tormented mentally on a day-to-day basis than men.

That's why I said if we had your brain, we'd shoot ourselves.

Yes. And obviously I'm going off of anecdotal evidence, but if I look at you, if I look at the, the fellow men we look— work with, excuse me, if I look at my dad, you guys have an ability to just Tune out. Tune out. And right, you're not, you know, you're not as hard on yourself as I am on myself.

That's interesting. Yes, that's probably true. So what is it? I have a line in my— whenever I speak, I give a whole full speech on men and women. So ladies, please understand something. When you ask your husband, honey, so what's— what are you thinking about? What's on your mind? And he says nothing.

It's true.

He's not lying to you.

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because your mind is filled with stuff.

Yeah.

That's what brought my wife to talk radio. She's told you this, right?

Oh, this is what— this is the thing that has revolutionized my sleep. Sue told me that to play talk radio or listen to a podcast or something to fall asleep. And as horrible as this may sound, I'm not saying it at all to, to discount or undermine or shrug off the tragedy of this day. But I am more relaxed falling asleep listening to a 9/11 podcast than I am lying down and being in my own thoughts.

I will totally, because it's distracting.

It's— yes.

Yeah, I, I am the radical opposite. I am even more than men. I, I actually enjoy silence because my mind entertains me. I, I come up with ideas. I'm an idea factory. That, that's my brain. It's just, it's a gift. I don't take much credit for it, but That is what it is. And so I find it fascinating. I'm listening to my mind. Oh, good point. That's, that's a good one.

Oh my gosh, that must be so nice.

Oh, it is nice.

I'm only— when I'm thinking in, in my mind, as opposed to in my stomach, when I'm thinking, when I come up with an argument, I'm not thinking, oh, Julie, that's, that's a good argument, you know, you should develop that. I'm thinking, why didn't you think of this sooner?

Oh, and what is this revelatory?

And what are you not developing? What are you, what are you failing to see?

Oh God, it really is the opposite.

And you know what?

My mind goes, what a great point, Dennis Prager.

Oh my God, I'm just thinking, you fool, people have probably thought of this before. You're such an idiot. And by the way, you know, what book do you need to order to develop this more? It's just— and I've really tried because— and I'm opening up to the audience here— I've struggled in the past few months slash really years of my life with my energy levels. As a kid, I used to be like extraordinarily energetic. Actually, my parents thought I may have had like ADHD or something because I was constantly running around. I never slept. I wanted to be active constantly, and it was just that I had this, this great amount of energy. But in the past few years, especially as I, as um, uh, what's the word I'm looking for, as self-aggrandizing as it may sound, as I achieved more, I became more hard on myself to keep the achievement going, and my energy levels have fallen as a result because it's very difficult to be in my brain most of the time because I am constantly just asking myself what more I could be doing, what I could have done better, etc. And I was reflecting recently on this, and I thought it's so interesting because The easier thing to do is just tell your mind to shut up, go watch an episode of something that you like. Why? It's so weird that I choose mentally the harder thing instead of the easier thing. But then what I realized, and I don't know if this will make sense, but it makes sense to me. It's the easier thing to continue with the mindset that you've had. It's the harder thing to change it, even if changing it is leading to easier thoughts. Does that make sense?

Yep.

So I'm trying to— again, maybe this is another instance of me being hard on myself, but I keep telling myself it's lazy for me to continue being so hard on myself, because I'm continuing down the track that I've been on.

Wow, I admire you for that. You're so reflective.

Well, that's my problem.

I'm very reflective, but it's not my problem. I think your problem is that you're too self-critical, right? Not that you're too reflective. They're not the same thing. I'm very reflective. I look at myself from outside myself much more than I do from inside myself. I That's why one of the reasons for my calm is that I, I have worked on inner peace, and one of the contributors has been that I don't take me all that seriously. I take my ideas seriously. I take other people seriously, but I I knew from such an early age that as special as I may ever be in life, I'm, I'm another human being. I'm here for a finite period of time. I will leave like everybody else will leave, and it doesn't bother me. It just is. So this actually does lead perfectly amazing to what I wanted to raise with you, my biggie for today, which for all I know may end up not a biggie. So here's another big issue that I have been— I won't say grappling with, but meditating on a lot in the, in the recent past. And I don't know what's triggered it, and it doesn't even matter. So there are two human natures. One is human nature everybody has, just about everybody. We all share a human nature. Everybody shares, oh, some element, let's say, or nearly everybody, of jealousy or envy. Okay, that's, that's part of temptation, part of the temptations. Exactly. It's, it's part of the human condition. You have to battle human nature. But I have been thinking much more that my whole life. I've been thinking about the battle against your nature. That's the subtitle of my happiness book, A Human Nature Repair Manual. So here's the one though that I've really come, and I mentioned this to Alan before the show today, before my show. And that is that we all have our own nature aside from the universal human nature. And I said to him, again looking at me from outside of me, I said, you know, I'm very— I'm a very lucky man. I pretty much wake up happy every day. Now, that's a very interesting thing, to wake up happy every day, wake up in a good mood every day. A lot of people don't, and they really have a battle. Some people wake up in a bad mood every day, the other extreme. And I I have to ask, what is me, my attitudes, etc., and what is just built in? And he said, to a degree, it has to be built in. He said, I don't have that nature. He's saying about himself.

Meaning he doesn't wake up happy.

Yes, but it doesn't mean he wakes up unhappy every day. Just doesn't wake up ebullient as I do. So this question of what nature were you born with, or it got so early you don't know if it was born or developed very early, but it's really been haunting me of late. Because the question is, if it's true, and of course it's true, if you have kids, you, you see it, how different they are. Same genes, same environment, and, and they might as well be opposites. They could have been one in Mongolia and one in Bolivia. So the question, one of the great questions in life is what do you do with the, the hand you're dealt, to use a cards analogy? Have you— so I'll, I'll reflect on it in a moment, but do you know your nature?

Oh yes, I've known it since the time that I was little. I mean, as, as corny as it sounds, I always knew I wanted to be a talk show host. Do you know this about me?

Yeah, from— which is very rare.

I— there are videos, I should show them on, on Timeless or on here even. There are videos of me when I'm like 5, and I'm getting in front of the camera and going, hello everyone, it's the Julie Hartman Show, I'm Julie Hartman.

No kidding.

Yes, and you know what's so funny? In one of the videos, I actually think I called the show Funny Funny Julie, which is just like, oh my God, so cringy, but I had a globe in my room and I played this game on the air, i.e., on my video, where I would spin the globe and then put my finger on a place and then I'd go, today we're gonna be talking about this place. The history of that. I mean, it just shows I was so young.

All right, that proves— I mean, that's a great proof. I agree. Okay, cool.

A, now I have a show, and B, for anyone who watches my show, they know that I, I'm always in— in almost every episode, I, I find my way back to history. I've always adored history. I think history answers so many questions. I think it's endlessly riveting. And it just, again, it proves this, this was always in me.

Okay, so, so yeah, this is— I'll tell you why this question is so big. I mean, there's an obvious reason just to better know ourselves. So I— but it raises a lot of very tough issues. The most obvious is free will. So I, I've always used this example. It sounds crazy to a lot of people, but I don't know why. It's a completely legitimate way of expressing this. When I hear of guys who molest children—

prepubescent children—

yes, but I'm repeating it because people cringe that I even use the example. But it's precisely because it's cringe-making, it is a good example. I don't battle that. I get no credit for not molesting children. Okay, none. Most men don't get any credit for it. You might as well molest a banana. I mean, it is that sexually remote for me, a child. But this guy, obviously, it haunted this man who did it. I'm not excusing him, but I am asking about the free will question. Or is it free will that I get up every day, virtually every day, in a good mood?

Well, I'd like to ask you, because you're better equipped to answer this question simply because you've lived longer than I, but have you seen— think about people who you have known for a long time, not someone like me who you just met 3 years ago, but who you've known for decades. Have they mostly stayed the same?

Yes.

Slash, second question, I would like to ask you to think about the people who you have known for a long time and who you have seen change. If, if those people exist in your life.

Yes, that too.

Has there been some element of their nature that has remained and continued through the change, or have you witnessed some people really be able to turn their lives around for the, for the good or for the bad?

I asked that on the Happiness Hour. I should ask it again. If you have changed, call me up. And tell me, tell me what the change was and how you did it. Well, I'll give you an example. The most, perhaps the best known example is addicts who become sober, right?

Well, I was going to bring them up, but, but well, actually it's a, it's a good segue because certainly addicts have changed in the fact that they have overcome or at least found a way to manage their addiction. But has their nature As human beings changed, have their personalities, their moral fiber changed?

Okay. The, the reason I don't ask that question is the only thing that matters to me about anyone is their behavior.

Right. But for the sake of this conversation, how would I know?

How would I know?

Well, for, for people.

Okay. So I have asked, okay, these psychiatrists, I'll get, I'll get to that in a moment. But so I have asked our psychiatrist friend, Dr. Stephen Maurer, who's been on the Happiness Hour and he's a friend of mine for decades. So he's a psychiatrist, and I said, talk— getting back to men who molest children, I said, did you ever have a patient who wanted to molest a child? I, to be honest, I don't recall the answer. But, uh, he probably did, because then I would ask, are these people capable of controlling themselves? And he, he says it's very, very rare. And he, he thinks that the— a child molester will never change that nature. It's very depressing what he, what he, what he believes.

Well, it raises the question, is it their nature to be child molesters, or what Or was there something that happened to them as children? Often child molesters were molested themselves.

Right, okay, that's right.

So how can we—

Okay, so you're asking, this is another question, were these people born this way?

Right.

Or were they made this way at an early age? It doesn't really matter because we spend most of our life as an adult. So whether I was shaped in the womb or when I was 3 is academically interesting, but I don't know if it's all that important. And anyway, how do you even know what's your nature? Let's say you were left in a cave upon birth, but with sufficient food. Then do we know your nature? Of course not, because you would be shaped by being alone in a cave.

By the way, that question has fascinated me, and specifically with, uh, when I matriculated to Harvard, I thought about this a lot. I thought, if no one could brag about the fact that they went to Harvard, if no one could put it on a resume, how many people in this class would still apply and attend this college?

What a great question.

Seriously, it was, it was something that I—

that's right.

It, it, and it's— and by the way, I'm not just trying to pick on Harvard. It just was the first time I sort of thought of a question like that because I was I was a freshman and it was, it was something that I was—

Well, you have articulated, to your great credit, and I had never thought of it, the price paid by most people who get into a Harvard. Oh yeah. I had never thought of that.

There is a great, great price.

But I— It's funny, I knew it in high school when I saw these, the kids who were in the top of the class, how much they studied. And I thought, what a crappy life.

I will, I will say, though, because I talk a lot about the price, but there is a big reward too. I mean, the experience— there's a reason why people go specifically to Harvard.

Yes, I think there is a reward at Harvard. And I'm not sure— I don't know if it's comparable at any other American university.

And I made amazing, amazing friends there, too. Not just opportunities and all that, but that— but back to my, my question that I contemplated during my freshman year and I think about in a lot of other situations. What would people be like if you could put them on a desert island for a few years and they didn't have the influences around them? I, Julie Hartman, try every day to be as close to who I would be if I were on that desert island.

How do you do that?

In other words, well, let me clarify a little bit. I try to improve myself, and as I always say, I try to put myself on a good track. So in that way, I am trying to sort of mold myself. But what I mean when I say that is I try not to get caught up, and honestly, it's a part of my nature to not get caught up in these things. They never interested me. I try not to get caught up in popularity or in social media or in vanity. That's what I mean when I say I try to be the desert island Julie. But in college, I would encounter these people who I could, as corny as it may sound, I saw like a seed of hope in them. I saw something in them that was really exceptional or something that I gravitated towards. And then I would see those same people go out to parties and try so hard to be in the in-crowd of the Harvard elite. Or I would see those people, I'm sorry to be this blunt, sell their souls by going to finance and consulting symposiums, recruitment symposiums. And I would go, wait a minute, you're a really interesting person. I know this isn't what you're interested in. Why are you doing that? Or why are you trying to be this different person around a certain elite group of students?

And it would bother me so much. I now understand you. So here's what I take from this. So tell me if I followed you.

Yes.

So at a very, very early age, and I could almost tell you 14, I knew I could not act. I could only be who I am, and that's all I will ever be. And that's why I, I did no homework for 4 years of high school, because I said it doesn't interest me to get good grades. It interests me to learn about the world, which is all I did. Shortwave radio, teach myself Russian, and teach myself how to conduct symphony orchestras by following scores at the New York Philharmonic Library, which is a completely bizarre childhood. I knew, I knew I was different. I was not unhappy about it, I just was. But to this day, I can't do anything that isn't me. Is that what you're saying?

Oh, of course.

'Cause you can't either.

No, I also recognized from a very young age that I was different in that way. I couldn't be someone that I'm not. What I'm talking about—

well, wait, but forgive me. So when you paid prices that you have said to get into Harvard of, of extraordinary amounts of work and homework and studying and extracurricular athletics, you weren't being fully true to your nature. Well, it's not a criticism.

I think I was. I think I didn't know exactly what I was interested in at that point. You seem to, at a very young age, have some very profound—

Right, which again goes to the nature question. I didn't do anything for it.

I think also, from such a young age, I was sort of put on this track of sports and rigorous schooling that it was— and by the way, I know that sounds sort of like a criticism of my parents or, you know, the environment that I was in that put me on that track. And in many ways, I'm grateful for it. In many ways, it yielded great results and shaped my character and my work ethic. But nevertheless, I was put on that track so young that I didn't really explore very much. And I kind of didn't know any other world besides going to school, going to practice, repeating it 5 days a week, on the weekends going and playing sports. It was just It was kind of all I knew. But I think I was being true to my nature because I've always been a hard worker and I've always had this sense that I have to fulfill whatever obligation is in front of me even if I don't like it. Like at school, there were times that I didn't want to do school, but I thought, I'm here, I have to do this.

By the way, I don't mean that as a negative. We should all think that way. I do a lot of things I don't want to do. We, you know, there were 3 volumes of a Bible commentary sitting behind you. That was a lot of work. I mean, incredible.

No blank Sherlock.

Yeah, no blank Sherlock.

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So the— I thought that I only do what I wanted to do is absurd.

And I want to clarify that I wasn't trying to imply that.

You're not.

But it was in accordance with my nature.

Let me get to the bigger. The bigger one, the macro question: free will. What do you think?

I, I really do believe that all of us have a certain amount of free will, and that if we set ourselves on a good course, we can overcome elements of our nature, and we can, as I I say at the end of my show, sort of shape ourselves like a sculptor starting with a block of clay. I really do believe that. I think it's the foundation of my worldview and certainly of my conservatism. That being said, I do think that people struggle with free will more than others. For instance, someone who was born with a proclivity to become addicted to alcohol has less free will in that category than I do as someone who was not born with that impediment. So it's not— I don't think it's an all-or-nothing question. Just as you say, and I love when you talk about this, that there are gradations of sin. It's not that murder can be put in the same category as stealing a pencil. I think that's the same with free will. We all have it, just as we all sin, but there are different gradations or levels.

I would only add this. For as a— to help people listening. To a certain extent, you, you have as much free will as you want. That, that's one of my more recent realizations. So there are— anytime that you follow reason, you have garnered more free will. In other words, I think we attain free will more than we start out with it. And here is the way to be a person with free will. Don't follow your heart. The heart deprives you of free will. The brain, or the mind really, not the brain— the brain is the animal part, the mind is the human part— that— so here's a classic example. So I, I had lunch yesterday with Alan, my producer, before I did a preview video. And I had the sugar-free cheesecake at a Cheesecake Factory, which is the most delicious cheesecake, I think, on this planet, at least sold in a retail way. I, I really, really wanted the regular cheesecake, but it's got a lot of sugar, obviously. So I had the, the Splenda cheesecake. They have one which is good. It's not as good as the other.

Wait, the Splenda cheesecake?

Yes, it's made with Splenda. That, that, I think that's the sugar-free substitute.

Oh, okay.

Yeah. And, and it, it said it was satisfying, though not as delicious as a regular cheesecake. Why do I use the example? If I had had a regular piece I would have not been exercising free will. Or let's put it this way, you could say I was exercising free will, but I exercised it in the wrong way.

Yeah, that's what I think. That's what I would say.

Well, yeah, well, all right, so then you— free will is a very interesting question because if you listen to your emotions Have you made a free will decision to listen to your emotions? Maybe. But I would argue that the more non-rational your decisions in life, the less you have allowed yourself free will, because it is not you making the decision, it is your emotional state. Does that make sense?

Totally. I, I would agree with you.

That's what I mean. I think that When I— that's what I mean when I say, and this is, as I say, very relatively recent in my thinking, you work toward free will.

I love this. I love that you are saying this because it is so important. And, and people— if there's something that, that I've realized, especially in the last few years as I have entered adulthood, is that everything in life, in order to become good at it, requires practice and refinement. And I know that sounds like a duh, no-blank-Sherlock statement, but there are certain things in life that I didn't, as weird as it sounds, I didn't realize that I needed to work on and get better at. For instance, I'll give two examples that again seem sort of pointless, but there is a greater point. Finances. I just thought, okay, every time, you know, it approaches April 15th, I have to log on to some kind of tax portal and do my taxes. And as I've done them in the past few years, I've realized, whoa, I've really got to kind of understand this more, understand the process, understand refunds, because I could, I could, A, A, not be doing it correctly, and B, I could be taken advantage of. And again, I know that sounds stupid, but I just thought, okay, there's a methodology that you have to follow and you do it. But no, you have to educate yourself and learn more than just following that methodology. A second example that I think will resonate with you is dating. I have gone out on more dates in recent months and years. And I think because I am— I've always been really good at friendships. You know I have many, many, many amazing friends from high school and college.

All girls.

All girls except for one who's actually visiting this week. But yes, almost all of them are girls. I've never struggled with making friends, with keeping friends, and frankly, I've never struggled with finding good people. And so I thought in the realm of dating, I would know how to kind of behave on dates because it— although I recognize that dating is not a friendship, It's sort of an offshoot of a friendship-like relationship. And now that I have gone on more dates, I realize that that is an area that I— unto its own— that you need to practice. Because a dynamic of being on a date is totally different than a dynamic of being on a friend date, you know, going out to dinner with a girlfriend. It is just so different. And I've realized there's sort of a dance to it. There's a there's an exchange of vibes, if you will, and you have to know how to maneuver.

I'll put it in even a more dramatic way. What you're learning, which no woman knows until she learns it— not a woman since Eve has known this innately— we are not women.

Right. Well, trust me, I have learned that more and more.

Yes. But I've gone out— oh, you didn't have a brother?

No, and I went to an all-girls high school.

And went to an all-girls high school. How on earth will you know men? I didn't know women. I didn't have a sister, as I said. And now, I never thought girls were boys. Boys know girls are different. Girls don't know boys are different.

It's so true. And again, I've really come to see it.

Isn't that fascinating?

Yes. But I've just learned— I just always thought, you know, when it comes to the right guy everything will be kind of easy and seamless and it will fall into place. And perhaps that is true. I hope it is true. But I— what I have— what I've realized is there's still like, you gotta practice dating, you gotta practice setting boundaries, you gotta practice flirting, you've got to practice saying no. Yeah. Yes. Like, just, just a lot of— even just knowing how to converse on a date, it's totally different than a friendship. Anyway, I digress, but that's That's been kind of one of the bigger things that I've learned. Everything in life, everything requires practice and nothing just comes naturally, in other words, and I think this is such an important point with regard to free will. Exercising free will also requires practice. The way that you said it a few minutes ago was so much better than I'm saying it now, but you have to— Practice self-control.

And that's even true if it's in your nature. So I naturally spoke well at an early age, but if I had relied only on my gifts, I never would have developed as far as I did. Uh, it's like I realized— and this is really, uh, shows how open we are with each other on, on, on our podcast our show, our show. Fair. So at a, at a very young age, I'd say late teens, early 20s, I realized— this will sound— I'm even, I'm self-conscious now. I realized I had charm. I could be very charming. And I realized, and I said to myself, Dennis, you can charm your way through life. But you will get nowhere.

That's a very mature thing.

Oh well, I was— that was a gift, maturity.

I'm not sure that you're entirely right that you would get nowhere. There are a lot of people who charm their way through life and they do get somewhere.

Somewhere, but not, but not forever. And they pay the price. First of all, the charm may leave them. Secondly, people start to see through you. Uh, you still have to, you still have to have results.

And you're just a hollow person.

That's right, exactly. But I do remember consciously thinking, you can't rely on this. By the way, that is true for a woman who is beautiful. She can get through life very successfully on beauty alone, but it doesn't work. I love it.

I'm so kidding.

I'm so sorry. I know.

Please know how much I am kidding.

We all know. We all know.

I actually do know because I, I have some friends that are just like supermodels, total supermodels, and I see how they could get by, right? So unjustly.

So even, even what your nature gives you, you have to be aware you need more stuff than just your nature, right?

With those people at— in college who fascinated me, those who I saw in them great gifts and great potential to be fully authentic human beings, but then I would see them succumbing to external societal forces that would undo that authenticity. I would look at them and I would think a different iteration of the same argument that we're making here, that you have to practice being an authentic person. People think that authenticity is just something that you have and that you can exhibit whenever you want. But the more that you— the more that those individuals hang out with the wrong crowd or attend certain parties and pretend to be someone that they're not, the more that they unravel that authenticity. It's no longer just a part of their nature or their being. And so I think in that, that's a good example of how you have to practice. You have to practice your free will.

That's right. Well, that's part of the reason that I said earlier, like, even without the external suffering of war and famine and disease, which is bad enough and has been ubiquitous in human history, just the battles that you have to wage on a daily basis. Listen, if no war, no famine, no disease were the sources of happiness, Americans should have been the happiest people since World War II. And it has turned out that there's more depression among American young people than almost any other in the Western world, which is worthy of its own broadcast, by the way.

The sad thing is we really don't have good examples anymore of people who are happy, who are authentic, who exercise self-control. If I think about cultural figures, I mean, I'd like to ask you, who are some people in your youth, like American icons, who you really admired and you sought to emulate their character? Were those people Were there those people? I should say, well, I don't know if those people exist anymore. I mean, Rihanna is a great singer, but I don't really try to emulate her character.

It's worse today. There were figures in movies, for example, Steve Marmer, whom I cited earlier, tells a great story. I don't think you've heard this. He had a patient whose father came home on weekends because he was a traveling salesman. He didn't see his father during the week. His father came home weekends, but he didn't see his father on the weekend because the father spent the weekend with the mother. You know, they hadn't been together all week and he wanted time with her. So he tells the story that this guy basically was raised in terms of men, grown men, by actors in films. While his parents were doing whatever they were doing, he went to the movies. And at that time, let's say it was the 1950s, there were so many admirable characters. I don't know if they were admirable privately, but it didn't matter. Steve says— this is a psychiatrist— said this guy's father's were Spencer Tracy or whoever. I mean, names that would mean nothing to you. Well, no, that's Harrison Ford. Would have been too young then.

Okay.

So, yeah.

God, this really was a long time ago.

Oh, yeah, it is a long time ago. By the way, I said to somebody just the other day, Humphrey Bogart. And he goes, what?

Yeah, I don't know who that is.

You don't either? Yeah. To anybody even close to my age, that is so not depressing. But it is so sobering about fame. People should understand Humphrey Bogart. There wasn't a living American who did not know that name in his day as an actor. Not a living American.

Never heard of him.

Well, watch Casablanca. It's one of my two favorite movies.

My mom's favorite movie is Casablanca.

Well, he's in it, so it's worth watching.

By the way, you raise that really good point about fame. That's, that's really, really important.

I have so much important stuff to tell. Young people about fame. I— this is a particular affliction in America. I don't think the average Dutch or Danish or German kid wants to be as famous as the average American kid wants to be. And that is guaranteed misery. Guaranteed. The more importance you place on fame, you know, in our line of work— I just want to get back. So you asked the question about who to look up to. So this guy had— these were admirable men in, in acting. John Wayne was a masculine figure who took care of life, who was in charge, who, who was strong. Uh, it's irrelevant to me what he was in his private life because that's not what people saw. People saw the movie figure. And do you know that figure, John Wayne?

Yes, I do, I do. I think he has my birthday.

Really?

Yes.

All right, well, there you go. Well, these are things you should watch just to be aware of what the male figures of two generations ago were like for young men.

God, this is so depressing, but sometimes when I watch old movies, I get really bored easily because the movies draw— the older movies, I should say, draw out the storyline a little bit more. More recent movies have—

they're quicker.

They're quicker. They're—

that's correct.

And I notice, as someone who is used to the quicker movies, that I can't really sit and watch— like, I'll give you an example, and this will either— I have a feeling you'll either get it or you'll be very disappointed in me. I don't know. I don't know which, but it's going to be either or. I watched with my dear roommate the other day The Godfather Part One. Yeah, what a snooze. Oh my God, what a snooze. By the way, my father loves The Godfather. Like, all—

when I was growing up, the acting was much slower in those days. The plot development was—

that wedding at the—

in the first—

the first, like, hour of the movie was the wedding. I'm like, when's the wedding gonna end?

Well, that is a very interesting insight in light of the fact that you read a lot. And reading is not fast.

Yeah, that's very true. I love reading.

Yes.

Is The Godfather a book?

Yes, it was first a book. Yes.

I have to tell you, I have never seen a more boring movie in my life than The Godfather. We stopped after an hour and a half. We couldn't take it. And by the way, that could be a female thing because most men adore The Godfather. Women don't really seem to care. But I think it's more that we just are not used to slower pace movies.

Well, I would be very curious for you to see, uh, Casablanca.

I saw it when I was young, but I can't remember.

Yeah. Okay. I'll rewatch it anyway.

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The— so I want to go back to your question about the old, older people. And I don't mean old, even just older people as models. How important that is. I didn't realize how important it was until I started getting so many comments on, on the radio from men, overwhelmingly from men. And, you know, Dennis, you're, you're a father figure to me. And then I'd look on the board at what the age of the guy was, and it was like 10 years younger than me. I How do you— how are you a father figure to a guy 10 years younger than you? But you can be. It does— it doesn't matter. You don't have to be literally of the father's generation. But the reason I'm mentioning this to you is there— I filled a void in so many younger men's lives. And by the way, I'm proud to do so. I think every man should seek to be a father figure to younger men. It would be a much better world. But the yearning for that— what I, again, typical, I would always ask questions. Do women need maternal figures like men need paternal figures?

I was just about to respond by saying I don't think that's true of women.

I don't think it is either.

For instance, I don't know if a 42-year-old woman would say of a 52-year-old woman, you're like a mother.

Perhaps. No, no, no, it would be far less common. It would be odd even. Well, what do you mean? It would be the obvious. Nobody asks, what do you mean, if a man says that?

Because why is that? Why?

Well, that is— well, all right, so we live in the age of stupidity. I called this this 25, 30 years ago. I wrote this.

Oh God.

And, and one, one of them— yes. Oh, it was abysmal. Yes, it is abysmal. And one of the stupidities was that men and women are basically the same. Not even just basically are the same with the, the only difference being, as we used to say, the plumbing. But even now the plumbing doesn't matter. So they're really not different.

Theoretically, does plumbing mean your— Yes, your parts?

Yes, it does. Yes, exactly. You're, you're indistinguishable female or male parts. So this, this therefore is what makes my answer to you problematic to people who believe that both sexes need male models. Women without a bond to a father— this is— even liberals have come out with these studies. Are far more likely to be depressed and to be promiscuous. I mean, it's like across the board. I've never seen a refutation of it. Girls who have a strong bond to a good man, usually the father, maybe an uncle, but almost always a father, are developed far more healthfully. And of course, a boy who has a good— by the way, that is so powerful that I, I have come to the conclusion boys need a good model in a father more than they need his love.

You would know better than I would, but it certainly seems to be true. And if you look at the results of fatherlessness in this country, it is just stunning.

Yes, that's right.

People don't acknowledge— and that, that is, now that I think of it, it's one of the biggest arguments for the fact that men and women are different.

That's right.

Because, of course, because motherless households do not yield the same—

that's correct—

dismal results as fatherless households.

That is exactly correct. And, you know, saying this is a sin in, in our age of foolishness By the way, that is my essay in Genesis about why God is depicted as a male in the Bible.

I was just about to say it. I think that's one of your best.

Oh, it is, it is. I worked very hard on it. And, uh, the, the morons, which is almost co-equal to college graduates, who, uh, now dominate in religious life, are now having Bibles without God as a he, gender neutral. Uh, the, uh, the Anglican Church in England just came out with this, the Church of England.

I just want to say to them, why do you care what gender God is if God is going to produce good results?

And they don't ask—

I don't care if God is a goat.

The moment it does, the moment you ask what are the, what are the results you're a conservative.

These people are deranged. By the way, because you brought up your Genesis commentary, we started off the show by talking about how women in particular, Sue and me— I— Sue and I are— see, I know the trick, but I still struggle with it— how Sue and I are hard on ourselves. And sometimes when I am too hard on myself, as I like to call it, I I mentally, corporally mortificate myself, because that's one of the old-time Opus Dei Catholic things where they engage in corporal mortification. I do that to my mind on a daily basis. I think about your Genesis commentary, the first chapter, when you analyze why God says after he created something that it was good. You say that it is a good lesson in showing that if you do do something good, it's okay to call it good. As long as, of course, it is good, right? It's not that you're bragging.

Now, of course, God's a good model.

Yes. And I thought that's— you, you wrote people think that it's immodest or it's, you know, cocky to say that something they did is good. Certainly if you go overboard, it may be those things, but acknowledging something that you did is good is good. Is good.

By the way, I, I want to develop that for a moment. So this—

you always have someone calling you.

The irony of ironies, I'm about to talk about him. Oh, he is calling, and I was just about to talk about—

oh, you should tell him after.

I will. Oh my God. So Joel Alperson is really the godfather of my Bible project. He has worked feverishly to make it possible. It's a massive undertaking to do this commentary in the 5 first books. So his idea I followed. He said it can't be some abstract scholarly commentary, because he knows I could do that, because I know biblical Hebrew well and so on. And by the way, it is scholarly, but that's not its purpose. Its purpose is to touch the reader's life. And that was his idea. He said, Dennis, you have to show why every verse matters to the reader. And what you're giving me is an example. And it made me think differently. Why does it say, except for the second day, every day of creation and God saw it was good. There's got to be a lesson there. And I developed this idea. If God could say of his work, it is good, so can we. If it's good work.

I'm brought back to the Alan Dershowitz quote that you cite in the Torah commentary where you say that, yeah, if the— if there's an instance where you disagree with the Torah, you think the Torah is right and you're wrong. And Alan Dershowitz thinks that he's right and the Torah is wrong.

Right.

This here, when you look at a passage and you don't understand what it's about, it's great that instead of going, "Ah, well, it was written 3,000 years ago, it must be BS," you go, "No, there must be a reason." That's right. And that's what I wish people today did more with most things in American life. There must be a reason why we have this law. There must be a reason that things have been taught this way. It doesn't mean that you just blindly adhere to them. But people don't— people are so quick to immediately dismiss something as anti-hitting.

Yeah, yeah. Well, okay, perfect example. I was just reading— I, I was— I don't know, it was the New York Times or some, some newspaper. Uh, why, why should men propose to women? Oh God, right? Why isn't that—

what are we gonna buy them a diamond ring? No, there's a reason why this was done this way. We get the diamond.

But, but damn it, the article did acknowledge that when asked, just as many women wanted the man to propose as men did.

I—

it's the— I knew from the outset we were going down a suicidal path by saying men and women are basically the same. I knew it from Betty Friedan's Feminine Mystique on. This is social suicide. And that's exactly what it's been.

Well, you got a great compliment from Betty Friedan. And by the way, I'm not being facetious. She called you a chauvinistic pig, right?

Piglet. Yes.

I would take that as an honor.

Well, I was in my 20s when I had a public dialogue with Betty Friedan. Wow. And at one point which is so fascinating. No man that I ever debated did this. She gets up and leaves the stage because she's so annoyed with me. And I'm polite. I didn't insult her. I'm polite to people I differ with. But, and I was half her, half her age. But she, she stormed off because of things that I said, I guess. Not I guess, because of things that I said. And said, you're a male chauvinist piglet, and these things never bother me. And all I did was continue talking. She left the stage and I said, either she'll come back or she won't come back. I did nothing wrong. And she came back.

That, by the way, I knew the end of that story, that she came back. That is so funny when people do that. They have this like dramatic storming off, but then they come back. Yeah, it's so pathetic. By the way, because I'm thinking about men and women and free will and our natures and all of this great stuff, you brought up your speeches. Which sex, in your experience, is more likely to get contentious and loud and angry? Men or women? And I'm not just— I'm talking about the people with whom you debate. I'm also talking about people who ask you questions in the audience. Do you find that women are more likely to, to call you names and hurl insults at you and your opinions, or men, or is it kind of 50/50?

So I'm thinking, oh, I don't want to give a glib answer. I see more, it's not fully fair to use my speeches cuz they're not random samples of, of of the population. So I don't have a male-female big distinction in the, uh, that, that I can think of offhand. However, if you watch what's going on in campuses or, or in, in society generally, the screaming and ranting is more likely to be the female, but it is also much more likely to be the left, which I think— I don't think, I know appeals more to women than to men. You can date the movement of America leftward overwhelmingly with women getting the vote, which I am not against women voting, just for the record, and those monitoring this. However, to argue that it has had no political effect on the country is absurd. I mean, the most reliable group, or among the most reliable groups of voters on the left today, are educated women, white women.

By the way, the same thing with gay marriage. I mean, whether or not you agree or disagree with the decision, I happen to think that giving gay couples the right to marry was a good thing. I also acknowledge that a lot of bad has come in the wake of that. This transgender movement is an offshoot of the Obergefell versus Hodges decision in 2015, because it has given rise to this idea that there is no difference between men and women. And I think also it's led to this kind of celebration and proselytizing of homosexuality and of differing gender preferences, if you will.

The big argument— I can't believe I haven't said this on one of our broadcasts, podcasts, shows— the, the big argument for same-sex marriage was love matters, gender doesn't matter. That was the argument. Sounds perfectly reasonable. And I said at the time, gender doesn't matter is going to take us into a very dark area, which is exactly what we now inhabit. Gender does matter.

Well, what's also really hard, and I've been thinking about this a lot with gay marriage, because I really try to, as you know, to probably to a fault, examine if my opinions and arguments are sound. And I have said often, actually, probably not on this show, but on other shows, certainly when we were on the radio, that I support the passage of gay marriage. And I do, but I will also be honest that if you're thinking about this from a purely rational point of view, once you allow marriage to be between men and men or women and women, what then is the argument against polygamy?

There is no—

there's none. And I have to be rationally honest about that, right?

I posed that at the time. And by the way, the same thing I asked this in the New York Times, uh, lied about me. I asked, what is the argument against consensual adult incest? A brother and sister love each other, they're both over 21 or over 18, whatever the age of consent is, who are you to say they can't get married? They give it— they give a nonsense answer. Well, it's unhealthy because the offspring might be mentally defective in some way. First of all, it takes generations for that to happen. So it's a dishonest answer because you don't want to confront the question. The moment you went from male-female, everything goes. If the only issue is love, and that's what we were told, the issue— you could— the President of the United States just said this again recently: I support people marrying whom they love. I don't know if he did whom or who, but who they love. That's it. That's it. If that's the answer, why not your brother?

Or why not 3 people?

By the way, why not 2 brothers for that matter? Then you really don't have the issue of offspring.

In other words, there do need to be guardrails and rules pertaining to marriage. You just can't let the floodgates open. But it's very difficult. But again, I've been really trying to examine each of my arguments.

Well, if people asked rational questions, the world would be a lot better. The power of the emotions seems to be too great. If I were to challenge God, I would say, why did you make emotions so powerful?

Also, what I dislike about the left is that they fail to ever acknowledge that some of their positions may have some downsides. Like, certainly with gay marriage, to acknowledge that there may be a slippery slope argument with regard to legalizing gay marriage is to be a chauvinistic piglet, terrible person. To acknowledge that there are some very serious moral questions with regard to abortion, and that it is very, it is almost morally inconceivable that we in the United States have allowed 65 million babies to be killed. I mean, again, to even acknowledge anything like that, they will not allow it. Same thing with the border. They say there are no downsides to letting in countless numbers of illegal immigrants. There's no COVID concerns, there's no crime concerns, there's no voting concerns, nothing. And that just shows— it shows that their arguments aren't all that good. Because if you, if you are an honest, good arguer, you will acknowledge your argument. Like, every argument on the face of the earth has some, some downsides to it.

That's right. What was it? What was his book? Uh, The Great Tom Sowell. He wrote a book.

Oh, are you talking about his quote where he says there are no solutions, just trade-offs?

No, that's a perfectly fine example. Uh, he wrote a book, or at least an essay. I think it's a book. Uh, Oh, it's, it's, it's about not thinking about consequences. Stage 1 thinking. That's it.

Thank you.

Stage 1 thinking. That's all it is. And, and that would— that's true for every position. It's stage 1 thinking. Oh, the, the only— the pregnant woman can determine the worth of the creature she's carrying. Is there any other arena in life where that exists? That one person determines the morality of a gigantic act? There is no— there's no comparison.

They are the ones that determine the morality of acts for people who—

Right. I mean, well, because it saves one thinking. Yes, and it's, it's true for economics. It's true for everything. Well, what are we gonna do? We are— I want to talk to you in future broadcasts about the— this new study of the CDC about how many women your age are depressed and even suicidal. It's a record number.

I spoke about it on my show.

You did? I'm very curious to know.

I gave 3 3 reasons.

Oh yeah, good. Don't, don't do it now.

I won't.

That, that maybe— we never do a trailer for the next week's show, but that's— that sounds like a good one.

This is our trailer. Next week's show, I'll give—

well, something may well arise, like what you thought of Casablanca.

Oh yes, I need to— I also need to watch Groundhog Day. You recommended that to me.

That is the only movie I have watched more than twice. And I probably have watched it about 10 times. I would watch it tomorrow and laugh again. It is profound and funny.

You should watch an episode of Real Housewives. Just—

I did. I tried it in my hotel room out of curiosity. It's the only time I watch TV is in hotel room. So I, I found it boring. What you had with The Godfather, I had with Real Housewives. I was totally prepared to be riveted, but I think it's truly a girl's show, a women's show, right? Isn't it? You love it. Yeah. No, no, I think it's great that you love it. It shows how much—

and by the way, a lot of our listeners like it.

Oh, how could they not?

They write in to me and I have great email discussions with some of you about, about the show.

Is that right?

Yes. Very, very highbrow content that we discuss. How do people write me? Very interesting question, Sean. I'm going to kick that one over to Dennis because there's a guy who memes us who loves seeing the way that you flounder when I ask you to write to Julie. Yes.

You write to Julie Hartman in care of Dennis Prager at Dennis Prager at Dennis at DennisPrager.com. However, there's a risk I may never see it. But if you want a direct answer from Julie, Julie will tell you.

Julie at Julie Hartman dot com, or as Dennis would say last week, Julie Hartman at Julie Hartman dot com. Isn't that what he said?

Is that what I said?

Yes. I know you don't drink, but it sounded like you hit the bottle.

Julie at Julie Hartman dot com.

And then, dear God, we've had so many practice rounds. How— what is our Instagram? Yes, that's our Instagram. Yes.

No, this is like Who's on First. @DennisJuliePod. Yes. By the way, do you know the, uh, routine of Abbott and Costello, Who's on First?

Who?

Uh, who?

English?

No, no, you must watch that. There were things that preceded your birth that are really worth knowing.

You know, by the way, I would like to ask you and ask our listeners, send me no more than 3 because my little mind can't handle it. Send me in an email 3 things before my time, so before 1999, that you think I should watch, listen to, or read. I really, really could benefit from that. Okay, I'll watch Casablanca, I'll watch Groundhog Day, but I, I want to know what I should know.

And Who's on First?

What do you mean? And who's on?

Yes, the routine by the— this was a comedy couple that, that was even before my time, but called Abbott and Costello.

No kidding.

It's okay. No, no, I'm— for— it might be a guy's thing. I don't know how you like The Godfather.

I don't want to know.

It's just a routine. It's 5 minutes long.

Okay, I'll watch. I'll watch.

Okay.

Shalom, everyone.

Thank you for watching.