Epic Fails

And hello everybody! I'm in a feisty mood today, and I'm not sure it'll even come out. It usually does. Dennis and Julie. I'm Dennis, as in Dennis Prager. She is Julie, as in Julie— oh, don't tell me, don't tell me, don't tell me.

H. H. Julie H. It would be accurate for you.

I know, that's the— that's true. You're not— you weren't sure I was kidding around, Hartman. It's Dennis and Julie. It's absolutely unique. This is not a compliment, it's a statement of fact, what we, what we do here each week. Is unique. And I, I will tell you, I love it.

I love it too. It's the highlight of my— No, I don't like it at all.

Okay, you see, I got the truth out of her.

Duh, it's a highlight of my week.

Yeah, it's a big, it's a big deal.

It is. All right, I'll put this away.

You know what, on a very serious note, I think about this more often than I should probably, but I— but it's not depressing. When I think about your future, and you will have all of these videos.

I know, it's really great.

It is.

It's really great. I said it either to you off air or on air that when I'm 40, to be able to look back and see myself on air learning or remember things that I was going through.

Our interactions.

Yes. Oh yeah, that. Okay.

Right.

To hear your.

Well, let's see. When you're 40, 27. Is it. So it is possible I'll still be around when you're 40?

It better be definitive, not just possible.

Wait, you'll be 40? No, no. You'll be 40 in 17 years. Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, no. There's a very good chance.

That's a little scary to see. 40 and 17 years.

Isn't that. Isn't that. Age is really. That hurt a little bit. Yeah. Well, Okay, in 17 years, if I could say I'll be 40, I'd be, I'd be okay. Anyway, I have a very serious subject. I told you I didn't tell you what it was, and it emanates from my radio show. So here, let me give you the background. There's a school in Virginia, the Thomas Jefferson School for Science and Technology. So it's a ritzy, ritzy school. So you know what the National Merit Awards are, correct? Of course you do.

Yes.

By the way, did you receive one?

No.

I'm shocked.

I didn't.

That's fascinating. Okay. Anyway, so this school did not announce who won it. Oh, because they did not want to hurt the feelings of the kids who didn't win one. And I thought this— by the way, this is worthy of its own discussion, and maybe we'll have it. I call it the feminization of society, and I'll explain why. But, but that's a separate issue to the one I want to raise with you because it's a personal issue. So I then, as a result of talking about that, I actually devoted my whole happiness hour to the subject of When you protect kids from dealing with failure, you're ruining their lives. Truly, it's a form of child abuse. You have to learn how to deal with failure. And I even said, you'll get a kick out of this, I mean an intellectual kick, I don't know, it's not gonna make you laugh. When my boys, both of my boys play baseball in organized baseball leagues. When I would be at their games, I actually— and I'm sure for some parents this almost sounds like I'm horrible, I was a horrible parent— I was ambivalent about whether I was going to root for them to win or not.

Wow.

Now, I, of course, I acted like I, I was rooting for them to win, and part of me was. I want my kids to be on a winning team, obviously. But, but at least as much of me did not want them to win. I wanted them to learn how to deal with losing at as early an age as possible. So I dealt with that on the Happiness Hour, the whole issue of if you, if you have not been trained to deal with failure, you cannot be— you cannot lead a happy life. That's the way life is. So all of a sudden, at about the 3/4 mark of my show, I thought, holy crow, I got a very interesting topic for Dennis and Julie, which you don't know. This is— you're hearing it as anybody watching or listening hears it for the first time. So just to review, you You excelled in high school. You were a statewide class champion swimmer, and you got into Harvard, and you graduated from Harvard, and now virtually unique among anyone your age, have a national podcast and, and appear on a national syndicated level regularly. I mean, incredible amount of success in your life. So I thought, I want to raise it with you. Did you— A, did you ever experience failure? B, if you experienced a minimal amount, are you prepared for life? And by the way, I even— not only did I think about this to pose this to you, but I also thought that you have an answer. And, and, and that is, you know, life's rough because of your sister. Was that what— did that occur to you?

Oh, as you were speaking, I was thinking, okay, go ahead. I'll be honest that I haven't experienced a lot of failure in my life, but I've experienced a lot of disappointment and deep sadness as a result of the situation with my sister. So I've— I know how to deal with disappointment and setbacks because of that situation. Now, as far as failure, as I just said, yes, it's true, I haven't experienced a lot of it, but I actually did have a pretty big failure in college, at least through my eyes. I don't even think that you know this about me, which is really saying something because you know almost everything about me. I joined an improv group in college, and for almost my entire time at Harvard, I was in an improv group. Did you know that? So I— when I got to Harvard, I was so excited to be done with the sports part of my life, and I really wanted to explore something different. I remember being there on campus, and when 3 o'clock would roll around, I would go, oh my gosh, I don't have to dive into a pool!

I could always— that interest—

I could go walk into a bakery and get a croissant and sit outside and watch the birds. Like, it was It felt like I had been, I'm sorry to say it, released from prison. But anyway, you know I'm a very regimented, disciplined person and I wanted to try something new and I knew that college would be the time to do that. So the first week of freshman year, I decided to try out for the improv team and miraculously, I made it on without any improv experience. About 100 freshmen tried out for 3 freshman spots on a 12-person improv team and I was one of the 3 freshmen who got it.

Right. Does not sound like we're ramping up for failure here.

Well, you trust me, we are.

Okay.

And it's actually something I think a lot about now within the context of this work that I'm doing, because when I was in the tryout process for the improv group, even though I had no experience, I'm going to compliment myself here, I was so good because I really thought I wasn't going to get on the team. So I just went into the tryouts with a, don't worry, I'm not gonna say the full word, but with an eff it attitude. My mom is super theatrical and hilarious and I just played her in every single scene. I just tried to channel her and I got on. But then once I got on, I realized that everyone on the team had 4 or 5 years of improv, like that was their extracurricular to get them into Harvard. And when I joined the improv team, it was just my, I'm now at Harvard and going to try something new. So I really started to doubt myself. And I became awful. And we would have shows and I would get up in front of hundreds of people who would come to the shows and I would be dreadful. Like, I know, you know, I'm hard on myself. I was bad. I was not good. And there were times that I was good.

Did you sense from your colleagues?

Oh, yes. It was, it was so odd because it was like the first time in my life I experienced this. I could feel the cringe coming from my teammates, where they so badly wanted me to do well, but every time I would walk on stage, there would be other teammates that would walk on to be your scene partner, and everyone would kind of hold back because they didn't want to be my scene partner. And it was just a palpable energy.

So did you quit?

I did my senior year only because of COVID I desperately wanted to quit after my freshman year, but I made myself stick with it with it because I thought it was a really good exercise for me.

Did you get better?

Yes, I did, but it was a— it was an uphill.

Why didn't they throw you off?

Because they— that's not really— once you're in, you're in. But I had teammates talk to me about it. I even had— there was one.

So you felt— is the word overstated, or did you really feel a failure?

Oh, I felt a failure to go up on— because my, my teammates would go on and they would do these scenes and they were so funny and everyone would laugh, and then I would go on and—

well, if there's pressure to be funny, it's even harder.

But you know what it was, Dennis? It wasn't— I'm sure I actually would have been semi-competent at it if I had just let myself be. But I had, I had such a critical voice in my head, which in improv— improv is improv. You're literally up there and you have to, right, you have to be loose. You have to be loose and you have to grab little things. Or— and so Again, in tryouts, I was good at it because I didn't care. But then when I was up there, I'm like, you have to be funny. How are you going to do this? And I overthought it and I many times fell on my face. This new year, we've all got fitness and diet goals, and Factor 75 is here to help each of us achieve them. Save time and have the energy that you need to tackle everything on your to-do list with Factor's ready-to-eat meals delivered straight to your door. Get Factor and not only skip the trip to the grocery store, but skip the chopping, prepping, and cleaning up up to. Factor's fresh, never frozen meals are ready in just 2 minutes, so all you have to do is heat and enjoy. No matter what your lifestyle is, Factor has the meals to help you live it to the fullest with a keto diet, calorie smart, vegan and veggie, and protein plus meals on the menu each week. They are prepared by chefs and approved by dietitians, and each meal has all of the ingredients that you need to feel satisfied all day long. With 34 chef-prepared, dietitian-approved weekly options, there's always something new to try. Plus, you can round out your meal and replenish your snack supply with an assortment of 36+ quick bites, smoothies, juices, and more satisfying add-ons. Looking to cut back on takeout? Get Factor instead. Not only is Factor the cheaper option compared to takeout, but meals are ready quicker than restaurant delivery. They're ready in just 2 minutes. Eating vegan or veggie is a snap with Factor because each meal is prepared by chefs and approved by dietitians. You know that your Factor meal has all of the ingredients that you want and nothing that you don't. And if you're looking to mix it up, you can add a protein to select vegan plus veggie meals each week. Get Factor and enjoy clean eating without the hassle. Simply choose your meals and enjoy fresh, flavor-packed meals delivered to your door, ready in just 2 minutes. There's really no easier way to get well. Achieve and maintain your fitness and diet goals this year with Factor. Get America's number one ready-to-eat meal kit and start saving time, start eating well, and living your best year yet. Head to factor75.com/julie60 and use the code JULIE60 to get 60% off of your first Factor box. That's the code JULIE60 at factor75.com. Go to factor75.com/julie60 to get 60% off of your first box.

So let me amplify on this subject because it's so, so incredibly important to me, and, and using you again. So when I spoke about the need for a kid to work through failure, otherwise they can't be a happy or competent adult, what I meant And I didn't say this, but I'm thinking now, I, I also meant not just failure, but an awareness that life is not fair, that you've had through your sister.

No doubt.

So that's, so that's really important. And I know, knowing you, as you pointed out, and I do know you By the way, I know you, and I think people should know this, in large measure because you, you're not opaque, and I'm not opaque. And, and that's, that is such a delight. I could not be close to anyone who was opaque, who you, you can't, or transparent, as one caller called me once. I am transparent, and I want to be. Anyway, you know life is tough. And that, when I think about it, it's not— it's a bigger issue than experiencing failure. It's knowing life is tough. And a— if maybe the major reason for the success of the woke, the progressive, the left, whatever term you want to use, is they were raised in such a cocoon that they don't know life is rough. And my proof— there were many proofs— is their use of the term microaggression. So wait a minute, so there's no macroaggression? So in other words, I mean, the examples are sick. If you speak, say to somebody who has an accent in speaking English, oh, where are you from? You're not supposed to ask that. That's a microaggression. You have to be out of— I've been to so many countries and I speak a few languages. Of course they ask me, where are you from? I don't, I don't, I don't speak any of those languages like they do. So if they don't ask me where I'm from, I think, you're not curious? I'm speaking Russian like a non-Russian and you're not curious where I'm from? Of course they ask. That's the first question they would ask. That means I'm interested in you. It's not a microaggression, but it proves the ease with which these people are hurt shows you that they expect to live in a painless universe.

I call wokeism spoiled brat syndrome. If your biggest problem is that someone is offending you by asking you where you're from, you have it pretty damn good in life.

If it— forget even biggest problem. If it's a problem at all.

Period. Well, it really is an interesting subject because it seems that with the United States, the more prosperous that we've gotten and the more privileged that we've gotten, that's contributed to our demise and the situation that we see now. And on the flip side, people who have endured the most seem to be oftentimes the healthiest or the— Right. If I could, I mean, there are many questions I would ask God, but I would say, why did you create it that way? Even with Gina, throughout my entire life, the question has haunted me. Why was she born the Hartman child with autism, but I wasn't born the Hartman child with autism?

By the way, it's severe autism. I mean, I have an autistic stepson, and they're night and day difference. You know, obviously, Brandon, There's no comparison.

Yes.

I mean, he's the easiest person in the world to live with. He lives with my wife and me.

He's so funny.

Oh, and he's funny. Oh, I love what— I love that you got him a Harvard sweatshirt.

I did.

Yeah. By the way, you know what I told him yesterday? You'll love this. I commented on the sweatshirt and I said— and I said to someone who was visiting the house, I said, Brandon is clearer about the world than most students who attend Harvard. And, and he's autistic, and, and not everything that comes out is coherent, but he, he is on occasion, half the time, coherent. And he understands what threatens liberty.

He does. Brandon— we have to tell the audience, Brandon is probably more politically engaged than the two of us combined. He knows everything, and it doesn't come from you.

No, you're not feeding it. No, it's all on his own.

He's very right-wing.

He's to the right of me. That's the— or, and to— and of you. But anyway, I just wanted to point out, I don't want to lose track here. Gina is not at all—

oh, Gina's in a category.

Well, she doesn't speak coherently or anything.

No.

And, and she, she has to be professionally taken care of. So you have known from a very early age life isn't fair. That's really what I was talking about. Not just did you personally experience failure?

Well, also I learned from a young age that life is, in addition to not being fair, and I saw that literally every day with my sister, A, in that she was the one born with autism and not me, and B, that she has been the victim of negligence and abuse because she is nonverbal and she can't tell when and if her caretakers are being mean to her. But also growing up, It was really powerful to see how you can have such conflicting feelings about a person. My oldest sister conflicted. Did I say conflicting? Yeah.

Oh no, that is right. This is one— this is the only person in the world on air I correct.

What did I say recently? It was annoyance. That one, that was, that was, that was pretty bad.

Well, that was a new word. Conflicting at least exists.

Yes, sorry.

All right, I listen, I'm I'm gradually saying graduated from.

Yes, I noticed you did it a few minutes ago.

Thank you.

Major kudos.

Thank you.

I realize that you can have complicated— I think actually is the better word— complicated feelings about a person. My oldest sister— Gina's in the middle— my oldest sister is very loving to Gina, but growing up she had more resentment and anger towards Gina in the the burden that Gina presents for our family. I, from a very young age, always— I didn't have that, luckily. But as Gina got older and as she became more violent and had more outbursts, I did start to really resent her. And there was one instance that happened a few years ago. It was like one of the worst days of my life. It was— my parents and I took Gina out of her group home, and we took her about a mile in the car to get frozen yogurt. And this was one of the group homes that my parents were desperately trying to get her out of, going to court, trying to prove that these government-run homes were so awful, and they were trying to get Gina out, but they were not prevailing at the time, so she was still in the group home. But anyway, we took her out to get yogurt, and we were sitting in the parking lot, and she was eating her yogurt, And all of a sudden, she starts freaking out in a way that we have never— she used to have behaviors, but this was like—

how old was she?

This was, this was just about 4 years ago.

Oh, recently.

I was, I was a freshman in college. I was home for break.

All right, go on.

And she was 26. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, she started freaking out, threw her yogurt all over the car, started Hitting me, hitting my dad. She was in the backseat, my dad was in the driver's seat. Grabbing my dad's head, clawing at my dad, turns to me, starts biting me. She's never done this before, never. Biting me, she leans back, she starts kicking, and I'm yelling to my mom, 'cause my mom is so tiny. My mom is like 5'3" and she's super skinny, and I was afraid she was going to seriously hurt my mom. So I'm yelling to my mom, "Get out of the car, get out of the car." And then my dad tries to get out and we try to hold her down. But she's a big strong girl. And again, you could not imagine how severe this behavior was. Crying, kicking, blood-curdling screams, clawing, elbowing, punching. It was awful. And the thing that was so hard about it, in addition to truly fearing, I mean, for myself and for my family, was I hated her at that moment because she terrified me. She put me in danger. And also, not to mention, it was embarrassing. People around us are like, is this— what's going on in this car? I hated her so much, but I also could have cried because I knew why she was doing that. And it was because she was being abused in her home and she was so miserable. And I have never seen her behave that way. She's a very loving person despite her difficulties. And for her to get to the level where she is hating us shows that she was really suffering. So the point why I bring it up, I'm sorry if it's too heavy, I don't mean to depress you or the listeners.

No, no, no, it's real life. We talk about it.

It's real life. But the reason why I bring it up is to show it's a very powerful thing from a young age to realize that two things can be true at once. You can hate a person in a moment, like Gina, and go, why are you doing this to us? And also have heart-shattering sympathy for her and sadness. And people on the left don't know how to reconcile contradictions. They need to have everything make sense perfectly all at once. They, they don't see that life can be complicated and two things can be true at once.

Boy, is that ever true. It's like, uh, this wonderful psychiatrist you, we, you know as well as I, Dr. Stephen Marmer, He taught me the term from Freud. I think it's from Freud— splitting.

Oh yeah, you said this.

Kids do that with parents. They're either perfect or, or hideous. And, and humans split a lot. So the, the left's view of America is, is so unnuanced, it's just hideous.

Mm-hmm.

We've had slavery, so we're hideous.

Yes, exactly.

It's truly— they are children. If I had to use only one term to describe the left, I would say they're children. They reduce everything to absolutes, and life is not that way, which is what children do.

Yes.

If your parent says you shouldn't curse, then a driver cuts them off and they go, Oh, S-word. And the kid thinks, oh, what a phony my father is. All of a sudden, from a hero to a phony. That's what children do. And that's what they do about America and about everything else. But I just want to return then to the original theme. So the truth, you have experienced life is unfair and pain. But not failure.

Well, the improv thing, going back to that.

All right, most people— no, no, I, I hear you. Most people listening are thinking, she didn't do well in her improv group in Harvard, we're not really weeping for Julia.

I totally get it, and I'm not asking you—

no, you're not asking you to weep for me. We know that. I know you're not.

What I am saying though is I have felt Look, in, in the, like, grand scheme of life, have I failed? Meaning I've been fine.

Well, not even grand scheme. I mean, okay. All right. So you had that.

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which So, so I'll ask you this. I'll generalize it. Anybody who got into Harvard has succeeded maximally in terms of most people's thinking about what you could succeed at at 18 years of age. They got into the most prestigious school in the Western world. Maybe Oxford is tied. Okay, so if I were to ask this or discuss this with your with your classmates. So I'm just curious, have you experienced failure? What do you think the average one would have answered? And do you think it's played a role in shaping them if they haven't experienced much failure?

I don't think most of us have. If they're honest, they would answer no, right?

So, okay, so here's my— this is the reason I'm asking. Do you think it has shaped them in any way?

Oh yes.

Go ahead.

I think that we're all rigid. I think that we come to expect success and feel entitled to success. And failure and disappointment and sadness makes you a nuanced, deep person. Having constant—

And much more empathetic.

Much more empathetic. And just more authentic and real.

So, you know, this brings me back. You have no idea how much it affected me saying to you, as a result of things you said in our interaction on the last Dennis and Julie, was my recommendation, which I am going to go public with. I'm going to write a column on it and I'm going to do a broadcast on it. When you graduate high school, and certainly if you— when you graduate college be a waiter or a waitress and outside of your comfort zone of New York, Boston, LA, go to the Midwest and be a waiter or waitress for a year. I think parents should say, I will, I will pay your expenses. It is so important to me that you lead a real life for one year And I think it would be transformative.

What happens too, that when you achieve, achieve, achieve and have so much success in life, is that you're— when you have another achievement, you come to see it as the bare minimum instead of an achievement. Because it's what you've done for your whole life. So it's like, of course I have to continue doing this. and I feel like I'm making everything about me, but I will just quickly tell this personal story. When I got into Harvard, I was expecting to have this crazy big jumping up and down, crying, energetic reaction. My heartbeat was the same at 3:59 as it was at 4:01. The decisions came out at 4 o'clock. In other words, when I opened the letter that said congratulations, Was I grateful? Yes. Was I excited? Yes. But was I overjoyed?

So you assumed it would happen to you?

No, well, this is—

By the way, don't feel funny about saying that.

Well, I do. And there's a reason why I haven't told that story, because it comes off as a bit odd.

Okay, I will make you feel better when I talk about me at your age. Go ahead.

It's not that I actually genuinely thought that I was going to get deferred, if I'm being very honest. I did not think I was going to get rejected.

[Speaker:ZUBIN] You mean on the waiting list?

[Speaker:CRISTINE] Yes, I thought I was going to get on the waiting list. I did not expect to get in that day. But I think it's— I think, again, I just sort of saw getting into Harvard as awful. I know I sound so awful, but I saw it as the bare minimum.

[Speaker:ZUBIN] Right.

[Speaker:CRISTINE] Because I was like, well, I'm on this treadmill, and this is what I've got to achieve to stay on it. And I've noticed that among my classmates too. We are all such high-achieving people. And by the way, you know I've really done the work. I hate saying that term, 'cause the left says that about racism. But I have done the work to try to divorce myself of that worldview, the accomplishment-oriented worldview, I mean. But a lot of my classmates, like when we would do well on tests or if my classmates would get awards for writing or something like that, we wouldn't really celebrate because it was just, yeah, that's what we have to do. And that's what we've always done. Box checked. Move on.

So I'm sitting here conflicted again. I know that I've never said what I'm about to say.

It's Dennis and Julie.

It is. It's, it's really a unique thing. And I know it does not come from a bad or arrogant place. I had that at your age. So at— just very briefly, at the age of 20, the Israeli government found me and sent me to the Soviet Union for a month to smuggle in religious items, to smuggle out names of Jews who wanted to leave. I was barely 20 years old. I had just turned 20. And I knew Russian and Hebrew, so I was the perfect candidate for doing this. Do you know how I felt on the plane going into the Soviet Union? That the Israeli government is paying for this trip and sending me for an extremely important mission, and I'm— and all I kept saying is, Dennis Prager from Brooklyn. Dennis Prager from Brooklyn. However, I, I have your— and this may— I hope it doesn't lower me in the esteem of viewers. It's not a bad thing, and I'll explain me, and you'll find this fascinating. I knew they would choose me when they interviewed me at the Israeli Foreign Office. I knew I would win the one award Brooklyn College gave to 2,500 students. To have a full year abroad paid for. I knew I would win it. It wasn't arrogant. It was just— I just, like, I know I wouldn't win a physics prize. It's not— I didn't think I'm omnipotent, but that was my— that was what I was best at: being interviewed, speaking, making a good impression, having deep ideas. So I won that, and that's what made the Russian trip possible. And, and, and, and then everything flowed from that. I was sent to the United Nations the next year.

That's so cool.

They had the— did I— you don't know this one?

No, I didn't know that.

In 1970, the 25th anniversary of the UN, they had the World Youth Assembly, the only time they ever had it. And I was chosen as one of the delegates to the United Nations. We were in the Security Council. We were in the General Assembly. Yes, unbelievable. I'll tell you one great story. I've— I— this was— this was— this is quintessential me. We're sitting in the Security Council, and it was already run by the world's left. The chairman of the Security Council was a Palestinian delegate. Okay, so I'm sitting there, and then the Russian delegate— and this is not make-believe, this is real Palestinians, real Russians. Oh, and by the way, the Soviet delegation were all over 40. These people had been going to youth assemblies for like 20 years. It was a joke. They're professional youths. So he got up and he was annoyed about something and he says, I smell a conspiracy, and it's coming through simultaneous translation. Everything was the same as is at the UN itself. Who was the UN? And I raised my hand. Point of order. Point of order. And they have to be called. Yes, said to the Soviet delegate who said he smells a conspiracy. I can only say there's a very famous American saying. He who smelt it dealt it.

OMG. Well, first of all, that is witty and that is ballsy.

Correct on both. That's me at 21 years of age.

I love it.

So there was— so there's a gallery at the Security Council. They burst out laughing. The guy cleared out the gallery because they couldn't stop laughing after my comments.

Oh my God, I can imagine them being translated.

Oh, I know you well. Obviously it was done for English-speaking people. I'm sure they— in some way, yeah. So I'm just telling you, all of these things happen by, by the age of 22. Let's see, at 1970, I wasn't yet 22. I turned 22 in the summer. This, this was right before that. So my view of myself, to get to a very serious point, was it makes sense that this is happening to me. I was immensely grateful. I, I just— the— but I knew what I believed God had given me. And the reason I didn't get arrogant or anything like that, uh, is that I believed I am just— this, this is new. All of this is new to you. I have viewed my life from that age I am a vessel for these ideas. That's all I am. I'm like a telephone. I'm like a radio. I'm like a podcast, which didn't exist then, obviously. But that's all I am. And I— and therefore it wasn't, oh, I'm terrific. It was, oh yes, I have these abilities to do good with them.

Yes, totally. I echo that. I always felt that I was given what Gina was supposed to have. Huh. God didn't give it to her, but he gave the rest of it to me. And I'm also very aware I'm not supposed to be here. I was born from a surrogate mother. And there were several— I mean, my parents tried to have me after Gina was born, and my mom couldn't carry, and so then they pursued the surrogacy route, and two gestational surrogates failed. and then my surrogate was the third. That's why there's such an enormous age difference between my two older sisters and me. So I'm aware, oh my gosh, I'm not even supposed to be on this earth. It's— it's— or I shouldn't say I'm not supposed to, it's a miracle that I am here. Also, I have this sister and I felt like I always had to compensate for her. I had to, you know, I wasn't born with this disability, so the, the bare minimum that I can do is make use of all of my abilities. So It's the same thing. When I got into Harvard, I was grateful. I was acutely aware that it was a privilege and something that most people don't get to have, and I was determined to make the most of it, but I thought, you know what, Julie, this is just, again, this is the bare minimum. You used all your abilities to get here and check.

Right, but my fear is all your colleagues at Harvard who think that way.

Oh, well, totally.

I don't think they think it in the way you do.

No, they don't, but also many of them— look, in order to have the— I'm just gonna be honest— in order to have the discipline and the talent to get to a place like Harvard, I do think that you need something in your life that motivates you and kicks it over the top. For me, it was my sister. I know other people at Harvard and they had parents die.

Why did your sister make you kick it over the top, as you say?

Because I felt such a responsibility to make use of my abilities and to compensate for her. I felt like I had to— for my parents, yes. I felt like I had to achieve, achieve, achieve, and my parents always told me that I didn't need to do this, but still I saw their pain and I thought I have to be the distraction. And I will say a lot of people at Harvard, not everyone, but a lot of people at Harvard have something like that in their lives, in their families. That give them that push.

Well, you— are you prepared for failures?

I ask myself that a lot. I do. I do think I am because of what the situation with Gina has taught me. And also, I talk to myself a lot about how I'm aware that I haven't failed in the grand scheme of life, and I'm aware that it's inevitable that I will at some point in my life fail. And as I said on our last show, I'm trying to right now build the infrastructure to know how to deal with that.

I think you would. I think you would.

And the thing about failure is that in the little doses that I've experienced it, it turns you back to yourself. Where when I was failing at improv and I knew that everyone in there, it is the worst feeling standing up in front of people and you know that they know that you suck and they're waiting for you to get off the stage. I mean, trust me, it is like.

[Speaker] That's true.

[Speaker] You feel like a clown and you're trying to be funny and failing.

[Speaker] An unfunny clown.

[Speaker] Yes, it's awful. But I had to go back inside myself and when I would feel so bad, I mean, there were times I didn't wanna leave my dorm room because I didn't wanna walk on campus and show my face. 'cause I was so ashamed of myself. And I had to, I just had to look inside myself and go, Julie, is this how you're going to judge yourself? Are you going to judge your self-worth off of whether or not you performed well in that improv show? It brought me back to me. And it brought me back to the need to build an infrastructure to deal with it. And that's a really good thing. And I don't think many of my peers or people my age have that. Myself included. I'd like to introduce you to Monorail, America's investment app that takes you from where you are to where you want to be. Monorail is an investment and savings app that is made for patriots by patriots. It doesn't matter whether you're an Apple fan or if you prefer Android, Monorail is available in both environments and online at monorail.com. Monorail is safer for users with bank-level encryption and biometrics. Your money is protected with Monorail through the Securities Investor Protection Corporation and the FDIC. No matter how you engage with Monorail, you're getting the security and safety that you need, whether you're adding funds to your investment account, looking to buy a stock, or putting money aside for future purchases. With Monorail, you can put your money where it matters and utilize the economic power that built this country. Don't go somewhere else to trade stocks. Monorail gives you the freedom to purchase whole or fractional shares in companies that you believe in. It only takes 5 minutes to download the app and to set it up. Join the pro-America money movement. Join Monorail.

Well, among other things, it does reinforce my belief the world would be a better place if every Harvard graduate took a waiting job for a year in Omaha.

So let me ask you, have you failed?

So you tell me. Okay, here's an example. So I've had a radio talk show, a syndicated one. I've been on radio for 40 years, but it's syndicated for 24 years. That entire time, or virtually— either virtually the entire time or the entire time, I was on national radio at the exact same time Rush Limbaugh was. Rush Limbaugh, for future generations, was the most successful talk show host in America for a good quarter of a century. And it was my luck or non-luck to be up against him at the hours, which were noon to 3 Eastern Time, 9 to 12 Pacific Time. And he had way more income, way more stations. I had hundreds, but he had 3 times as many. And, and income-wise, I would say he earned 20 times, 30 times more than I did. Interestingly, It never bothered me. In the eyes of those who, who check off these things, I wasn't a failure. I mean, how very few people have a national radio show. There may have been 3 of us at that hour in all of America. So if you're 1 out of 100 million people doing something, you're not a failure, right? And by the way, that's what I would explain to myself. I wish I had his audience. I never thought, oh, I wish I had his income. I was never driven, ever driven by money. I probably should have been more so, but I wasn't. But I wish I— I always want to talk to more people because I have very good things to say, and I wanted— I want people to hear them. But, uh, so you tell me, was in my profession— not in my life, that's— I wasn't a failure. Was I somewhat of a failure No. Oh, it seems odd to you even to ask it?

Well, look at what you said a few minutes ago when you said most people would not consider your—

Right. You know, failing at improv. Right. But compared to him, I wasn't a success.

Right. Well, compared to my other people on the team, I mean, I wasn't a success, but I was still at Harvard and you're still on national radio. I mean, I don't view that as a failure.

Okay. So, okay.

Idita is your number 2.

They're there, which is okay.

Maybe in our eyes is a failure.

Yeah. No, no, it wasn't. Right. But I understand your funny, your funny line. So did I ever experience failure? Let's go back to that. Well, yes, I'll tell you my— I can't believe I didn't answer this. I was thinking professionally. Well, yes. I mean, I was divorced twice and anyone, everyone who divorces, I think, thinks they're a failure, even if it's not— if not, it's not your fault. And the first one was mutual. The second one, they were both mutual, but the second one, I know I worked my tail off to make it work for a long time. It was 17 years. I mean, and I was up against an insoluble dilemma because she's passed away and she's the mother of my second child and And, uh, she, she had been sexually abused by a relative as a child. And the, the, the amazing thing—

it seems to have issues in her previous marriage, if you don't mind me asking.

Oh, you could ask, but I don't know the answer because I, I, I, I never posed the question to the ex, her ex-husband.

But did you pose her?

No, not about, not about the G. It's blossom is a bad word, but it came to fruition. Awesome is a bad word, but it came to fruition. The bad, but it came to fruition. The bad, the bad things. Anyway, that's not here or there. I'm just saying anyone who divorces thinks that, that they have failed. Obviously, I will say even having some, obviously. I, I will say, even having said that, I, I did this on the radio. I do most things, I believe, on the radio to get feedback from people, that it is better to marry and divorce than never to marry. I, I profoundly believe that you become a better person, but it, it involves failure and it involves suffering, so that, that's a big deal.

It is. It is. I'll tell you another— I don't want to characterize this as failure because I am very much aware that it's not, but it evokes a similar emotion that failure does. So I'm in the beginning stages of the launch of my show. Do I have a big audience? I know that it's going to. I know that it's going to. I will have a big audience. Priority is, and I talked to you off air about this, priority is, and I talked to you off air about this, getting better. And I talked to you off air about this, getting better. As opposed to garnering a large amount of people watching me. I just wanna become really, really sh— That's my priority. That's my priority. But it was a bit discouraging the first week or week and a half on the show.

Humbling.

Yeah, humbling.

That's the better way of putting it.

To go, okay, you know what?

Not discouraging, yeah, humbling and right.

This is gonna be a slow crawl.

That's right. —Right, you were not the center of the world.

—No, and by the way, I wasn't expecting to launch and have 100,000 listeners. I don't have, what's the term? —Grandiosity. —Grandiosity, yes. Visions of grandiosity. I knew that it was going to be a slow climb, but then when you get in it and you realize how hard it is and you see the numbers, all the more realize that it's going to be a slow climb. So I had to really have some talks with myself where I went, Julie, you're— you know, I just said that thing about how I want to get good at my craft as if that was a given mindset that I had, but it wasn't. I had to really tell myself in the first or second week when I was getting a bit discouraged, Julie, you got to reorient your thinking. It's not about numbers at this stage. It's about getting good. And I had to, again, I had to turn back inside myself and I would go, are you really going to judge yourself based on numbers? That's not who you are. That's not who you wanna be. Don't do that.

So what's the lesson here? So I want everybody to be able to apply this to themselves because they may be saying, oh, this is ridiculous. Julie Hartman at 23 has this big show. She's on with Dennis Prager every week. And she's talking about frustration and failure. Or using my life. Oh yeah, he was second to Rush Limbaugh. Poor thing. Okay, we're not— first of all, none of this is about being a poor thing. None of this is any— it's only an honest assessment. Look, everything in terms of success and failure is relative anyway. That is the way the whole term is relative. If you're the 400th guy on the Forbes 400 Most Wealthy Americans list that comes out every year, You're, you're, you're still one of the richest human beings on the face of the earth. At the same time, you're 400th, and, and both are true. So it's— and people need to understand that, the relativity of all of these terms. That's why my doing that subject on my Happiness Hour, this last Happiness Hour, has prompted me to— I— it raised another issue that I will do on another Happiness Hour. What does being successful mean?

I was just about to bring this up because, yes, you know, perhaps some people can't relate to the quote-unquote failures that we're talking about, but what our discussion, I hope imparts is that whatever your circumstance or whatever, you know, whatever your profession is or whatever your personal life is, you have to figure out— I think the through line here is you have to figure out what you think of as success and what you think of as failure. So we are too hard on ourselves about, or at least I am too hard on myself about things that I no longer want to put in the category of success. What's more important to me, how I define success now is that I want to have a rich spiritual life. I want to have a rich social life. I want to get married. I want to have kids. I want to meet more people in LA. And I want to be above all else a dutiful person. I want to be good to my family, good to my friends, and good to my country. That's the way that I've shifted my worldview away from the Harvard, show, numbers, accomplishment, da da da da. I've shifted it away from that and towards a different image of success that's not the societal messages that we get. So I think what you just said is spot on. You have to figure out what it means.

Well, first of all, the way you described success, you're, uh, It's very admirable.

I, I swear, I know it sounds so corny. No, I swear to God, that's how I view it now.

I said it was admirable. I know it's true. So I will meet— I meet a lot of people, and I have a line, and I— and it's a totally sincere line. I'll meet a person who doesn't have a particularly big income is certainly not have any fame, uh, has done okay in his job, let's say, but has 3 terrific kids. And I will say to them, which even in, in their very middle-class home, and I will say, you are very rich. You are— you are a rich man. That's it. You are a really rich man. And they never ever have said, what do you mean? Yep, I believe they knew exactly what I meant, and it had nothing to do with money or professional success. To think of the, the massive professional successes who have sadness from their children You know, who's the rich guy? And I'm not blaming these wealthy people who have— I know terrific wealthy people who just had bad luck with regard to their child. But who is the rich man? Who is the rich woman? Who is the— you know, you're essentially— every marriage is, you know, its own world, but you're essentially happy with your spouse. Your kids are respectful and happy in their own lives, you know how well you're doing? You should be on the Forbes 400 success list, not, not money list. That's why, by the way— oh, this is such a great topic too. I, I will say I'm, I'm quiet because I'm debating whether to say it, but What this show brings out of me is really mind-blowing. So my friends can attest to this. When God gave me flaws, and he did, that I've had to overcome and hopefully will or do or have, one of them, one of them was not jealousy. I have never been envious of another human being in my life. It's— and that's why whenever I would meet Rush, and we met on a few occasions, it was pure fun and pleasure to meet him. I was thrilled for his success because he was such a powerful conservative voice in America. It would— if it was good for the society, his success, I was happy with it. It never occurred to me, oh my God, I envy his wealth, his his— the number of stations and listeners. Uh, and by the way, one of the reasons is this. You'll love this. You will love this. Joseph Telushkin's mother was a philosopher. Yeah, Helen Telushkin. She was a homemaker philosopher. I was in high school visiting his, his home, his parents' home. We're sitting in the kitchen. His mother is listening to our conversation about— I think it was something about who do we think is happy, who were the happy kids in our class in high school. She closes the refrigerator door, looks at us, and says, boys, the only happy people I know are people I don't know well.

And I remember such a great statement. That is such a great statement.

Oh yeah, it is. It's such a brilliant— it is so Helen Taluschkin, that line. She had this wit about her, so wise. But I, I knew that so early. Yes, the person you envy, you don't have a clue what's going on in his or her life. Then you wouldn't be so envious.

I felt that way because I, I saw my own family and how a lot of us could look on the outside and have things to envy about us. And by the way, a lot of things True. I didn't have like a horrible childhood. I had a great childhood, great parents, you know, all of it was just in many ways great. But they would, you know, I think a lot of people look at my family and they go, oh, you know, everything is great but they have that one disabled child. They have no flippin' idea how bad it is, that one disabled child, and what that is called. They have— right, because even scratch the surface, they're quantifying tragedy.

Oh, it's only one of the children.

Right, well, and they also don't know about the care or the, you know, anyway, but the point is— Or the pain. The pain, and that's exactly right. Everyone has a cross to bear, everyone.

Yes, and when you know that, it should end jealousy.

I also was born with, like you, unsurprisingly, a natural inclination to not be jealous, but I also recall having a talk with myself about this when I was in 7th grade at my high school. Which was 7th through 12th. That's why I said high school, even though 7th grade is technically middle school. And we all, from a very early grade, knew that we were on the path to get into college, and we were all obsessed with getting in, even at that, again, that young age. And you started to kind of look left and right and go, oh, that girl's a good athlete, she may be recruited, or that girl's really smart, or da da da da. And I remember having those thoughts And then I was 12 years old. I remember I was sitting on the school bus and I said, Julie, you are not going to entertain those thoughts starting right now because you are going to be utterly miserable if you go down this path. I said, it's your journey. It's your life. Let's say that girl gets into Harvard. Who do you care if that girl gets into Harvard as long as you get into Harvard? That girl shouldn't matter. It's your life. And I knew I had to knock any semblance of that feeling out of my head or I was going to just hate my life.

By the way, and yet this is example number 10,000. No, I'm exaggerating. Example number 55. When you say something and I think I'm speaking to me many years ago.

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That you talked to yourself and said Julie, this is not going to lead to a happy life. I had the exact same experience in high school. I even remember the circumstance. I used to go— I lived in Brooklyn, parents lived in Brooklyn, I lived with them. So I would go into Manhattan Monday night, Tuesday night, Wednesday night, Thursday night to— I love the culture of Manhattan, the bookstores, the concerts, the museums, everything. I used it. And I'm coming back one night, and I was seated, uh, they, they had seats along the sides. I guess they still do. It's along the sides of the train. I was basically alone. I put my arms, you know, like this on the chair, as it were, on the lawn chair. And I said to myself, junior year in high school, I was talking about whether I'm happy or not. And I said to myself, you know, Dennis, any a-hole can be unhappy. That's the easy way out. And, and I was permanently changed saying that to myself. Being unhappy is the easy way out, and it shaped my life. But I said it to me, just like you said that to you. That's what struck me.

If only people understood what you so eloquently say all the time and say— have said in your happiness book. Happiness is very hard to achieve. It's an art. We think of it as like—

it's like playing the violin. Yes, it's very hard. It is.

And it takes a lot of— I— this word is not a particularly articulate way of saying it, but it takes a lot of grinding. To get to the point of happiness. That's right. People, people just think it, it comes to—

they think the happy are happy because they had an easy life.

One of the things that you and I seem to have naturally understood, but you really helped me fully adopt this into my life, is that your worldview is everything. And I specifically got that from your Rational Bible Commentary. And I just remember reading that and I'm like, you know, if you, Julie, have a rich internal spiritual life, you can hover above all the rest of this stuff. You know, you can get— I mean, obviously, life can hit you with tragedy and I'm not saying it can deeply affect you and throw you off course. But I think what your Rational Bible above all else made me understand, and again, I always knew this but you kicked it over the edge, is that if I make myself internally rock solid, All this other crap can come and go, but I stay firm. I can have 7 viewers on my show and go to sleep at night happy as a clam because I see the bigger picture. Or I can get fired from my job, or I can stand up there in front of 100 Harvard students and make a damn fool of myself, but if I'm good on the inside, it's okay. That's correct.

You got it. So thank you.

You got it. Well, you got it. And so that's what I love about conservatives, 'cause conservatives get that. A lot of, I shouldn't say with one broad brush. As opposed to non-conservatives. As opposed to the non-conservatives that, the non-conservatives that I grew up with thought that the external was everything. Everything, what college you get into, the size of your house, the, you know, the purported success of your children. And what I appreciate about your IQ— your IQ— what I appreciate about the conservatives I've met— I'm not saying everyone— because they're religious, they have that understanding of what you said about that man who has a rich life.

So I have an interesting proof for you. You'll love it. You will love this. So you know that Dr. Marmor, whom we spoke of Alan Estrin, my producer and the guy who came up with PragerU, and I, the three of us founded a synagogue in Los Angeles. And I have said to people, even this, it had a previous incarnation as part of a different synagogue. Now it's independent. So I said this then, I said Do you know the only place— because the left talks about, uh, you know, the, the working class and all people are— should be involved in equity and, and nobody's better than anyone, and all of that is fine— but there is really only one place I know of where your income, prestige, success financially, professionally doesn't mean anything at my synagogue. I would say, and these people spend a lot of time together, they're there from 9 to 2 on Saturday. 9 is study with Dr. Marmor, then an hour of prayer, then they have me giving a talk and Alan giving a briefer talk, and then they have lunch, and at lunch I I, I, I, I run the, the Grace After Meals, and then I interview somebody. I interviewed you once. They're with each other a lot. I would say that the vast majority of people seeing each other every single week for years don't know what they do for a living. Isn't that—

isn't that equity? Yeah, that's the ultimate.

And it's the only place you— it's only in a religious setting that that could happen.

That's what people don't get. They don't get—

look, I know I'm not foolish. They look— I'm a public figure, of course they all know what I do and they know my life, okay? But still in all, more than anything else, I'm Dennis Prager. I'm, you know, I, I lead the grace after meals. I mean, it's not exactly a prestigious act. To lead the 7-minute Hebrew prayer. Anybody, literally anybody who knows Hebrew can do it. But everybody is like that. Do you know that one of the most respected members of the synagogue, when he speaks, everybody pays attention because the guy is truly brilliant? He runs a pipe fitting company. And I'll bet you 90% of the people at the service don't even know that. If I said to them, oh, you all, you know Boris, that's his name, he's a guy who came from Russia. I go, you know Boris, he's a professor of philosophy at UCLA. I think, oh, it makes perfect sense. No, no, Boris runs a pipe company.

[Speaker:JESSICA] You know, when I realized my conservative instincts, when I would hear people talk about those conservatives in the South or blue-collar work or, you know, the way that people on the left and specifically privileged people on the left paint conservative blue-collar people as primitive or not smart or hicks. I would think you have no idea. Oh, they have no idea. You have no idea how much smarter 99% of those people are than you. Right. And how much more textured and interesting.

Last night, Sue and I, my wife and I, had dinner with a Mormon electrician. He's our electrician. This guy runs rings in clarity about life. Around every professor I had at Columbia. He's an electrician. And by the way, the Mormons do a good job at this because he— every position there is lay. So there's no ordained clergy in, in the Mormon LDS Church. So this guy was a bishop. He served as bishop, which is a big title in, in your community, and he's an electrician. Who? I don't care. They don't care. He doesn't care. And it's only available within religion. That's where truly we're all God's children. Have a nice day. And I love that fact. There's a couple there. I won't say more than this, that if there are more than one couple, but not many, whom We, we, we help financially, let me put it that way. We meaning Pragers? Yes, the Pragers, not the synagogue. The Pragers, and so do the Estrins and so on. Nobody knows it. Nobody has a clue, and there's no reason for them to have a clue. But I'm just saying, it goes from people who need help to people in my, in my, in my capacity I don't, thank God, need financial help from anyone. And nobody cares. Oh, by the way, there are people way wealthier than me. Just for the record. There's a— in fact, he's a Christian guy who comes every week. You would never know. He wears a yarmulke and a prayer shawl. I love the guy. Oh, you met— he's not the one you met. Oh, yes. Yes, I know who you met. No, no, no. There are a few Christians who come to the service. We love them. And there's no way to know because, as I noted, when you put a yarmulke on a dog, the dog looks Jewish. It's truly transformative. And this guy is very successful and far, far wealthier than I. He's— in fact, he's— he told me last week, he said, I won't see you for 4 weeks. I go, why? Because I'll be in my home in Idaho. I don't have a home in Idaho. I have one house. He has, he has, I don't know how many. And but nobody would know it. That's my point. If I didn't know it till he happened to mention it to me. And that's— nobody talks about that when they talk about religion. And that's something that theoretically progressives value more than anything: equality. The only equality I have ever experienced is in my synagogue.

It's so important. I want to take a bullhorn and just shout it.

Yes, I know you know it's important. That's right. I didn't realize that. You see it at our Shabbat dinner. You don't know who's successful or not. No, no, I don't. And it means nothing to anybody.

We don't, we don't talk about that.

No, no, of course not.

We talk about our careers as, you know, an individual talks about a funny, you know, experience they had at work. That's all.

It's not even mentioned generally. We talk about big ideas.

Maybe this sounds like a colossally stupid statement. I didn't realize how close you are with members of your congregation.

It's the biggest reason that I stay in LA.

I know you have your core besties, right? If you will.

But, but, but wow. Even if the besties moved with me, I feel a moral obligation and a personal obligation. I love a lot of these people. I mean, I could tell you, there are guys— there's a guy, there's a guy there, he was born in Moldavia. Yeah, I mean, I would say at least a third of the people were born in some other country. And this guy, he's married to a terrific American woman. This couple, they are so special. I got to introduce you to introduce you to them when, when you come next time. Uh, and I couldn't even say his name. Shlomo. He, he's, he's just a special man. So he walks around, he's like in charge of drinks. He walks around with a flask like he's an alcoholic and pours drinks for everybody.

Wait, alcoholic drinks?

Yes, alcoholic drinks.

Oh my God, I gotta go make buddies with Shlomo.

Oh, I assure you he'll make buddies with you before you make buddies Oh, I have. And I'm not even a drinker. I— he says, Dennis, you have to drink. I go, okay, bring me a liqueur. So he now brings me this, I don't know, apricot or whatever liqueur, which is yummy. And then we, we do a toast to each other every week.

I have been to your shul maybe not, not often, but 3 or 4 times, right? I have never been poured a drink by this man.

Okay, I don't know why. The audacity. Yeah, he'll— he, he will do penitence on Yom Kippur for that. There's no question. But anyway, there, there are truly, truly wonderful people there. Look, there are. And you know what? I, I often say this to, uh, the guys I, you know, my intimates who founded it at our Shabbat lunch together, and I will say it is amazing how rare it is that anyone at— there are like 150 people come every week. It's not small. And there were no a-holes. How do you get 150 people randomly without one jerk?

Because good people attract good people.

Well, that seems to be the case.

And also, there's a large percentage of good people who won't put up with a-holes. And a-holes are repelled By the goodness of good people.

Oh, that is so true. That's, that's, you have, that's the winner winner chicken dinner. That's, that's the statement that I'm sorry, it's the what?

The winner winner chicken dinner.

Sean, did you ever hear of winner winner chicken dinner?

Of course he has. I'm not even looking at him. He's nodding.

Yeah. What does it mean, Sean? What does it mean? Explain it to me. It's a good thing. It means it's a good thing. By the way, you said happy as a clam. I can't tell you how funny that is. I said happy as a clam on my radio show, and I then said, what the hell does that mean?

Yeah, it's— it's— does anybody know?

Do you know? So anyway, I, I, uh, the beauty of doing anything public is somebody is going to know an answer to something.

Yes, boy.

So the original statement was happy as a clam at high tide. Because at high tide they're less vulnerable to being picked off by predator birds. How do you like that? It emanates from the early 19th century in the U.S. Happy as a clam at high tide. And then it got the— as in high tide got dropped.

We should start saying that. We should start bringing back—

Oh, of course.

Otherwise it doesn't mean anything. It doesn't make sense. Yep.

But it's funny that people use a phrase and it means nothing to them. I would say happy as a clam and think, what did I just say? Anyway, it's—

I'm trying to think of others that we use colloquially that—

Yeah, that I would like to think of it too.

Nothing comes to mind right now. What did you say? Well, we did something on sayings in our early episodes. What? I'll be a monkey's uncle or something?

Oh yeah, I'll be a monkey's uncle. That's right. Which you never heard of, correct?

I had never heard of it. Oh, you never heard of it? You told me, I can't remember what it means though. I don't know what it means. What does it mean again?

I know what the intention is, just like I know the intention of Happy is a Clam, but I don't know why.

What's the intention of Monkey's Uncle?

Oh man, uh, well, let's see. If you tell me something outlandish, unbelievable, I'll go, well, I'll be— in other words, that I'll be as unbelievable as what you just told me, because I'm not going to be a monkey's uncle.

So we do know sort of the origins of the— well, we can surmise, we can surmise, you know.

Why, why, why isn't it I'll be a German Shepherd's uncle or a dinosaur's niece? I may use that. I could see that. I'll be a dinosaur's niece.

Well, you should say nephew. How do you know? You're right, I make, I make assumptions.

You might be misgendering me. Don't start me on the subject. I knew this would be intense if people really listen to this one. There were life-changing elements to it, and I'm glad about that.

I'm sorry that I feel like I talked and nauseated you about myself.

Oh, no. Okay, let me— so let me just put your mind to rest. I asked you about you. If you didn't answer by telling me about you, you wouldn't have answered the question.

See, it's hard because, you know, you said last episode that you— that people who are listening have to feel like they know you to keep coming back. And by the way, this is not— and you know, and I know, it's not an act. We're not like just— you know, everybody knows, everyone knows that. Everyone knows that we are genuinely open. But, but I do strive on my own. I'll just end with this by telling you, I do struggle a little bit because I want people to know me, but I also don't want to talk about myself because people know you do that constantly.

They can know you without your talking about yourself, right? They're not the same thing. There are people who talk about themselves and we don't know anything. So it's— but it doesn't hurt for you to do so, but you have to be judicious. That's true.

Yes, I try to stay away from it.

Yeah, well, just judicious. I mean, there are— I know people know me, and it's not because I'm telling them my autobiography all the time. It is because I'm telling them how I think, how I feel, what matters to me, and it just comes through. I can't fully explain it. You could, because you're a listener. The outsider will explain better. Why do you think— why do you, the listener, think you know Dennis Prager? And I know you do, and I can't answer it fully except that I know I don't hide anything, and people pick up on that. People are not stupid. I'll end with a very— I think I told you this in the beginning, but I'm not sure. When you started. That is your beginning. I realized very early on the following, or it was a piece of advice to myself, and that was that I needed to understand that— I forgot how I phrased it, but essentially this— virtually everyone I'm I'm talking to on the radio, I— oh yes, this is the way I put it: never underestimate their intelligence and never overestimate their knowledge. That's the way I've conducted my radio all of my life. I know I'm speaking to intelligent people, and I also know that a lot of them don't know that much, which is not often their fault. Sometimes it is. They should pursue knowledge. But it's the educational system is a grand, grand failure.

You also communicate it through your tone of voice, which may sound low on the totem pole because obviously the content of what you're saying is more important. But I can tell a genuine person through the way that they— Right.

I think, I think most people can.

And so when I first listened to you, I could literally hear that you were a genuine person. That's what Sue says.

I said, so, uh, when you first met me, Sue, how long did it take to fall in love with me? Said, I was in love with you before I met you. Oh, she always says that from the radio. And, and not in a silly way, just she, she knew me. I didn't have to prove who I was when we first met because I— she— and which really struck me I wasn't, I wasn't expecting that answer. You felt you knew me that well?

I knew we would be besties. Really? If I had the opportunity to meet you, yes. I knew that we would get along.

Oh, that's amazing.

Oh, I would listen. Age difference notwithstanding. Yes. Wow. Oh, I knew we would get along. That's— I just didn't think I would ever be able to meet you, but shows how wrong I was about that. Thank God. Thank God.

I duplicate that. Nice note to end on.

Yes. You can reach me at julie@julie-hartman.com. I've been better about responding to my mail and I love hearing from you, so please keep them coming and let us know what you thought of today. We were really— we're always open, but this was a biggie, as you would say. I say bestie and winner chicken dinner and you say biggie. Correct. See you next time. Shalom.