Have You Stopped Winning Your Spouse?

Life Audio. On today's episode of Timeless Wisdom, folks, when you were dating the person that you married, did you do everything possible? If you wanted that person, obviously, did you do everything possible to win their love? Question number 2: Why did you stop doing that?

Well, I think the answer is, I think most people are lazy and selfish. And, you know, people just want to do what they want to do. Marriage is extremely hard work. When my wife and I first were married, we were both extremely selfish, spoiled people, and we went to marriage counseling on and off for 8 years, sometimes twice a month, sometimes once a month. And then it became more of like a maintenance thing after, you know, 5 or 6 years. But we've We've learned how to resolve conflict in a respectful way, and we've become great partners out of it and great friends out of it. We both take care of ourselves, and we do— we, you know, we keep the romance up there. And if, you know, if you're just going to be lazy and just— that's right, you're going to be divorced.

That's coming up on Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager.

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Welcome to Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Hear thousands of hours of Dennis's lectures, courses, and classic radio programs. And to purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles, Go to DennisPrager.com.

I'm old-fashioned. I like two sexes. And another thing, all of a sudden I don't like being married to what is known as a new woman. I want a wife, not a competitor.

Competitor. Competitor.

Talk about a bit of this crying in the morning thing, this depression, you know.

Let's get that fixed.

That's what men think, isn't it? What?

Unless you've got the answer. Unless you can say 'Oh, I know this bloke in the Essex Road who could fix that,' then there's no point bothering. How do you write women so well? I think of a man and I take away reason and accountability.

I love him. I love him and I don't care what you think. I love him for the man he wants to be and I love him for the man that he almost is.

What do people have rows about today? Money, sex, sex, money, he wants, she doesn't want. She wants, he doesn't want. Women have always been a big problem to me, Dr. Fassbender. Are you listening, Doctor?

Yes, yes, yes.

Go on, go on. Every week I enjoy that opening as much as the previous week. I salute my producer. Welcome to the Male-Female Hour on the Dennis Prager Show. An hour each week. Unimpeded by politics and world events about the most important relationship for most people, the relationship with the other sex. And today is one of these hopefully life-changing subjects for men and women. There are times, by the way, that I say to you that the following is not for little kids. This is fine. The topic today is fine. In fact, I'd like little kids to hear this. It'd be— let them record in their minds what I am saying and hopefully apply it in their lives. And this may trouble some of you. And, and by the way, I don't think I've had a male-female topic that has not troubled some people. And of course, that's not my design, but it is inevitable. Because it's a very painful and sensitive area of life. And if you have something important to say, it's going to, it's going to be the sort of thing like when we apply certain antiseptics to, to an infection, to a wound, it burns, but it's— that's what helps. Folks, when you were dating the person that you married, did you do everything possible If you wanted that person, obviously, did you do everything possible to win their love? It's a rhetorical question. The answer is yes. You acted nicely, you were kind, you looked your best, just to give 3 examples.

Why?

Because you knew if you didn't work on all those things plus more, then you wouldn't win that person whom you wanted to be your husband or your wife. Question, question number 2, rhetorical question number 2 for that matter: why did you stop doing that once you were married? Letting you think about it. That's the reason for the silence. Why do people stop trying to win over the affection of the person they married? It's, it's almost as if a team scores a touchdown and then stops playing. It was all in order to or, or they win one game and then they decide not to try hard because they only needed to win that one game. But a team has to try hard continually. There's no end to its attempts. Even if you win in football, let's say you win the Super Bowl, you still have to come back next year and try again. You have to do everything and probably a little better. Why is it that people stop trying to win the affection of the person that they marry once they married? Well, there are many answers to that, and that's the subject of today's Male-Female Hour. Why do people stop trying to win the affection? Well, the biggest single reason is they're foolish. It's a foolish decision. Very smart people could make foolish decisions. That, that's true for all of us, including myself. It doesn't mean you're a fool. It means that that decision is foolish. That's the, that's the primary reason people aren't aware of the fact that winning the person's affection doesn't end at the wedding. But that is true for vast numbers of men and women. Okay, I won the person I wanted. Now I can rest. Because it's effortful. It's effortful to try to win over another human being's affection. It's effortful to smell right, look right, dress right, talk right, act kind, act attentive, act caring. Boy, that's a lot of effort. And I would argue to you that if every husband and every wife continued with that effort, uh, throughout their marriage, uh, that we would have so many more happy marriages that we wouldn't know what to do with ourselves. But there is in people, and I don't know if it's more men or more women, I have no clue frankly, and I would have no hesitation in saying that it's a problem that afflicts more men or more women. I just don't know. It may really be 50/50. I suspect it's 50/50, but, but I don't know. 1-800-PRAGER-776 is the number here. Why do people stop? Well, they make a foolish decision. But why do they make— why do smart people make foolish decisions? That's the real question. To say that it's a foolish decision and that's the reason is true but hardly illuminating. So let's try to illuminate. Why do smart people, men and women, make a foolish decision? Well, for one thing, there is this romantic notion that once you— we are married, I have you, and we, we offer each other— and I don't want to get onto the subject of unconditional love, even though that's related here— But it's unconditional. Now, I have him now, and I don't have to work on myself nearly as hard. I have her now, I don't have to be nearly as attentive as I was when we were dating. I would argue to you folks that you should date your spouse for the rest of your life. And if it sounds effortful, yes. I hope it isn't that effortful. I hope it's more natural. By the way, over the course of time it becomes more natural. People let themselves go after they're married. Could be after a year, after 5 years, after 10, after 15, after 20. They let themselves go. In other words, inertia sets in. But it's interesting because if they had to date again, if let's say their spouse died and they had to date again, assuming they wanted to remarry, they wouldn't act the same way they did when they were married.

Not—

I'm not talking about everybody, but those who did in fact take their spouse for granted. That's what I'm talking about. Never for a moment take your spouse's affection for a grant— for granted. That's, by the way, I mean, this is a, this is a talk we should have, you and I, on another male-female hour. That's one of the reasons I do believe that divorce should sometimes take place, or at least be on the books, because the thought is not a good thing. We have it nowhere else in life. No matter how poorly you behave, you can't be fired. There's nowhere else in life where, where that would apply. Why would we apply that to marriage? No matter how poorly you behave, you can't get fired. Well, why is that? And isn't that in many cases an invitation to poor behavior? 1-800-PRAGER-776. That's the issue here. People who get married should be told this. It's permanent dating. Think of it like that. I mean, and I'd like you to give me examples because it would help sustain this, the validity of what I'm saying for people who may not be clear. Give an example of where you or your spouse have quote unquote let themselves go, just stopped monitoring how they look or behave or whatever. In, and you know, I mean, the one obvious example is where women try to look so good to win a man over. They know the importance of the physical in men's lives. It's unfair, it's not unfair. I'm not talking about what's fair, I'm talking about what's real. And then it doesn't matter. He's got me, or I should say I got him, Now I don't have to look so good anymore. He's stuck. He's in for life. Or the guy who was attentive and then all of a sudden spends his life in front of a television set. Well, wait, wait, wait, what happened to me? 1-800-PRAGER-776, the male-female hour. I will take your calls when we come back.

This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

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Now back to more of Dennis Prager's timeless wisdom.

Hi everybody, Dennis Prager, and this is the Male-Female Hour. Every week talking about male-female relations. Today's topic is Why did you stop, if you did? I'm not saying you did, but those of you who did, why did you stop trying to win the affection of your spouse when he or she became your spouse? The way people want to look and act and talk and treat the other before they're married to win the person over, why does it stop? That's the, uh, that's my argument here. It shouldn't stop because you should never take the person for granted. And as a sidebar, that is exactly why I think that at least divorce be an option utilized as only a last, last, last resort when things are hopeless. Not when things are bad, but when things are hopeless. We should talk about that too, by the way, the very sensitive issue of divorce. But I think it should be on the books because it's, it's a statement that we should never assume that we have tenure. One of the problems at our universities is that professors can't be fired after a certain period of time. Well, most people, if they know they can't be fired, aren't going to try to do as great a job and impress people with their qualities quite as much, right? All right, let's go to New York City and Jimmy. Hello, Jimmy. Dennis Prager, thank you for calling.

Hi, Dennis. Thanks for taking my call. Mm-hmm. I listen to your show quite regularly, and I don't always agree with you. Uh, today you're spot on with a lot of things you're saying.

Good.

Um, I'm speaking from someone who is, uh, approaching a divorce at this point in time. I'm sorry, a couple of the things that I think you left out that are very important. And, and the, the adherence to the fact that you, you were mentioning there is really, really very important. I don't know if it's as important to females as it is to males, as you, you kind of alluded to. And for some reason or other, I think females find it difficult to understand. I think that their theory is not only that they've caught the man, but that if the man truly loves them, he'll accept them for whoever they are, even though they did their best, as you said, to attract them by looking their best initially.

Mm-hmm.

But the two things that I wanted to say that you left out in a marriage per se, one is, number one, you get to know a person more than you did when you were dating, so sometimes you see things there that are not pleasing to you, and oftentimes it's tough to broach that subject with the opposite What are you—

what are you thinking of?

What am I thinking?

I know you're thinking of something, so let's hear it.

Oh, I've too many things to waste your time.

No, they're not a waste of my time. Give me an example.

All right, I do all the shopping in my family and have for almost 11 years now, since my wife was pregnant with my most recent child. And I say, could you please write down when you use the last whatever it is, whether it be toilet paper or anything else, or the next to last, write it down just on the list which we have on the refrigerator and I'll be glad to buy it when I go. At least I'll know. Can't happen. It's at the point now where she'll say, I just may never be able to do that. I might not be able to do that, you know. And to me it's a problem because I go shopping every week and then invariably there'll be things that weren't on the list.

So this is— all right, and you're offering this as an example of something you only learn after marriage?

Yeah, you learn that.

All right, so, so in other words, she, she has a policy. Um, of course I haven't heard her side, but, uh, just listening to your side, she has a policy of not telling you all the things that are necessary when you go shopping, right? Did she do this? Is this a new development or was this done from the outset? Would she— how long are you married?

How long?

How long are you married?

23 years.

20 years ago, would she have written down what all that was needed?

Well, it wasn't a problem at that point because I wasn't shopping.

Yeah, because she did the shopping. Yes.

Yeah.

All right, so the bottom line is what? That people learn things, problematic aspects of another human, and therefore what though? Of course that's going to be true. You learn far more. That's why marriage is, is, is a growth industry.

Not a—

or not a growth industry, but a growth for a maturing thing for the human being. You have to deal with real people, not images.

Yes, that's true, but I mean, it takes two to tango, as they say, and sometimes those kind of things, the problems that arise when you are married, uh, the marriage, uh, and there's one other thing I wanted to say.

All right, well, you know what, do me a favor, send me that one in an email because we have to leave it to one thing. Thank you for calling. Look, this is very true, and it's probably something I ought to, uh, I ought to deal with on another, another male-female hour. This, you learn more about the other. I have a, a dear friend, I'll even say who it is, Joseph Telushkin, the great Jewish writer, and we know each other since high school, and he has a very interesting line about marriage. He said, you not only learn about, far more about the other's issues, you learn far more about your own issues. And he gives the example of, he says, when you live alone, when you're single as a bachelor, talking about guys at any rate, You, you have no idea if you're moody. How do you know if you're moody? You only know if you're moody if, if, if he bounces off somebody else. So that, by the way, which is why I recommend so strongly— one of the many reasons I so recommend marriage is because then you learn yourself. You never— there's no mirror in your life if you don't get married. There just isn't. Let's be honest. There, there doesn't mean that, that everybody who stays single is, is X or Y or Z, but I mean, if the, the notion that you don't grow by having to commit to someone and live with them daily is no— is, is nonsense. Of course you do. Now, now that's true, you learn about those, those things. Now here, that's, that's a, that's something we might want— we might talk about on another show. Because there— I have the belief that it's— you should only be disturbed by the— by that which is disturbing. There are things in marriage and with friends, because friendships are like marriages, they're, they're like, they're like marriage without sex. And in, in— if you do not let the unimportant roll off your back, you will never have a happy relationship. Maybe that's a subject for the Happiness Hour, Alan, more than even for this specifically. Sometimes they, you know, they obviously cross-fertilize. But I just want to say that for a moment, we should be bothered. Yeah, this is a happiness topic. We should be bothered by things far more by our intellect than by our emotions. Your mind has to say, is that really worth getting bothered by? So that, you know, the proverbial, he, he, uh, he always leaves the toilet seat up. You have to decide whether you allow that to really bother you. And guys, if she wants it down, what does it cost you to put it down after you do your thing? It's a message for both of you. Back in a moment on the Male-Female Hour. I'm Dennis Prager.

This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

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Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.

Why does it always seem to be me looking at you and you looking at me? It's always the same.

It's just a show.

This is the Male-Female Hour, each week at this time on this day, specifically the second hour of my show on Wednesdays. This is the Dennis Prager Show. Hi, I'm Dennis. Thank you for being with me. And the subject today is just as you tried to win the affection of the person you wanted to marry you before you married, you should want to win their affection every day after you're married. Never take their affection for granted, okay? Never do that with friends, by the way. This isn't just spouses. I, I regard friendship the way I regard marriage. That, that's how important I regard friends and friendship. And you, you have to devote time to cultivating friendship, and you have to act in, in good ways, or you lose your friends. And you have to think that you can lose your spouse. You may not lose them through divorce, you may just lose them through attrition, a war of attrition. 1-800-PRAGER-776. Let's go to some of your calls here, and let's go to Lisa in Brentwood, California. Lisa, thank you for calling. Dennis Prager.

Hi, Dennis. Happy New Year.

Thank you.

Um, my comment is I think it's unrealistic to expect a couple to maintain the level of intensity that they have while dating, mostly because during dating it's really fueled by a lustful excitement to discover the unknown. And that I think in any case, be it an athlete, be it any, it's unrealistic to expect somebody to maintain a level of, that level of intensity all the time.

Well, the level of intensity maybe, but why the level of attempt and commitment? I'm not talking about intensity, that's a word that you introduced. I'm talking about working at winning the other's affection after marriage as you did before. I'm not saying you'll have the same level of intensity or excitement at all times.

Well, I could just speak for myself after being married 25 years and being in better shape than I was when I got married. But I think with greater knowledge of the person, there's a greater sense of authenticity. Both partners have to be more authentic, and that could be for the good or for the bad. You know, right?

Yes, I— well, I don't know about more authentic. Uh, if you faked— if you faked— I'm gonna— forgive me, I'm gonna let you go because of the terrible, uh, interference. If you faked who you were, then you were not authentic. I see. Interesting, is it, Lisa? I think she introduced items here that I was not talking about. I didn't talk about authenticity. I didn't talk about intensity. I said that just as you worked to win the affection of your— of the person you dated in order to marry the person, you should— you should work at winning the affection of the person after you marry the person. That's all. I didn't say that you will have equally intense times, and I didn't— and had nothing to do with authenticity. If you faked who you were to win the person, then you were inauthentic, and then you're both— am I allowed to say— screwed. Yeah, I mean, that, that's bad news. I want you to be authentic before marriage and authentic after marriage, but authentic doesn't mean body odor. Are you inauthentic by showering every day? Are you inauthentic by, by, by keeping yourself clean and, and, and is, and as good-looking as you can? Is that inauthentic? Is it inauthentic to, to call the person and ask how they are? Why is that inauthentic? So it's inauthentic, I guess, if the guy at dinner, he tips the waiter more before they were married than after they're married. He wanted to impress, he wanted to impress the woman that he's a generous guy. Well, now that I have her, I can go back to giving 6% tips. I don't know, I guess that would be perhaps an example. We continue on the male-female hour, and everything I said applies to friends too, incidentally. You're listening to the Dennis Prager Show.

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Dennis Prager here, the male-female hour. Thank you for being with me every week at this time. We do talk about this. It's 45, 45 past the hour on the Dennis Prager Show and the male-female hour. And that is this: you worked hard to win the affection of the person you wanted to marry. Why do people stop working hard to keep that affection after they're married? That's the theme of this hour. Never take your spouse's affection for granted. At a given point, it could be lost by anybody. Vince in Orange Beach, Alabama. Dennis Prager, thank you for calling.

Hi, Dennis, how are you?

I'm well, thank you.

Well, I think the answer is, I think most people are lazy and selfish. And, you know, people just want to do what they want to do. Marriage is extremely hard work. When my wife and I first were married, we were both extremely selfish, spoiled people, and we went to marriage counseling on and off for 8 years, sometimes twice a month, sometimes once a month. And then it became more of like a maintenance thing after, you know, 5 or 6 years. But we've We've learned how to resolve conflict in a respectful way, and we've become great partners out of it and great friends out of it. We both take care of ourselves, and we do, uh, we, you know, we keep the romance up there. And if, you know, if you're just going to be lazy and just— that's right, you're going to be divorced and you're going to be lonely.

Vince, well said. I thank you. Well said. That's right, lazy Lazy is a big thing. That's right. If you want to be lazy, don't get married. That's a very good rule. Don't get married because it's—

it—

there's a vigilance that is necessary. I would like, though, it'd be an interesting discussion to have. I don't know if we'll do it on a male-female hour, but it's an interesting discussion. The, the general statement which most people say is, you know, what, what Vince just said, marriage is hard work. Should it be? Work, yes. Hard work, I don't know. I don't know if that's— I don't want people who are not married to think that that get married and all they're going to do is work. That's not true. It, it, if it takes that much hard work, there are real problems. And, and some of you have made that hard work and made a good marriage, and, and that's terrific. Uh, you are to be just saluted and congratulated. But I don't want people to think with two mature people Work, yes, hard work. I, I don't know if that's, uh, it's like parenting. Is parenting hard work? Well, it depends a lot on, on you, and it depends a lot on your children. For some people, parenting is very hard work. With a hard child, it's hard work. With an easy child, it's not hard work at all. And I would say the same thing about marriage. If you have an easygoing person that you're married to who's mature and does work just at maintaining your affection, then it's not that hard. So there are a lot of it depends in these matters. So let's go to Eden Prairie, Minnesota. —And Suzanne. Hi Suzanne, Dennis Prager, thanks for calling.

Hi Dennis, um, I had a clarifying moment about marriage on the tennis court. Um, I played mixed doubles tennis. I was invited to play as, um, with a neighborhood gentleman as my partner, and I noticed that as soon as the opponent walked on the tennis court, I could tell if they were married or not by how they treated each other on the tennis court.

And most of that is a great insight. Keep going. And most of the time— go on.

Most of the time, if they were married, they treated each other horrible. And I learned a great lesson that helped me in my marriage, to always remember to treat the person I love more than anyone else in the whole world with respect as much as I can. That's not to say I was I am perfect. We've been married 35 years, but that moment on those tennis courts watching married couples—

it's a terrific call, Suzanne. Uh, here is the way to— I guess one could put it: why don't you treat your spouse as well as you treat strangers? That, that's it. You are good. That is so— I love that. You see it because it's— she gives a specific example for a general rule. That's, that's my general way of presenting things on, on any subject, and it's a good rule to follow. She looks on a tennis court, so there's a man and a woman— mixed doubles means that man and woman versus man and woman— and she looks, and so this man and woman come on, they're her adversaries coming out, their opponents in the game, and she immediately knows if they're married because if they treat each other respectfully, they're probably not married. Well, that's it. By the way, this notion of familiarity breeds contempt, I find that a repugnant notion. If you, if you want it to breed contempt, then it does. Or if the other person acts contemptibly, then it does. But it doesn't necessarily. How about familiarity breeds respect? The more familiar I am with my friends, the more I respect them, not the less. I certainly hope that the more familiar you are with me, the more I breed your respect. I mean, what is this notion familiarity breeds contempt? Maybe among the contemptible or the contemptuous, but not necessarily among everybody else. Yeah, by the way, that is also true for your kids. I don't think parents should allow kids to mistreat their siblings. Well, it's typical sibling rivalry, you know, all the, the older boy always picks on the younger boy or the younger girl. I'm sorry, if they can't treat their siblings nice, if you can't love your brother, I'm not sure you'll be able to love other people. That's where you start. It's not where you stop being a decent person. It's where you start, is in the family. Final segment of this Male-Female Hour coming up on The Dennis Prager Show.

This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

If you're eating less, staying disciplined, and the weight still isn't coming off, the problem may not be your effort. It may be your metabolism. After years of stress, dieting, and lack of sleep, the body adapts. It slows down and holds on to fat. That's why PhD Weight Loss focuses on your metabolism first, so your body stops working against you. Mention Prager today and receive 2 free weeks plus free food, a $1,500 value. Call 864-644-1900. That's 864-644-1900.

Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.

Hello, hello, hello, hello, hello, everybody. Dennis Prager here at 55 Minutes Past the hour, final segment of this edition of the Male-Female Hour. A reminder, by the way, that all of my broadcasts are available to you, uh, commercial-free and in very high fidelity at the staggering rate of $7 a month. Do you know, and we still get periodic complaints I, I, I must tell you, I am surprised. I mean, we should talk about this another time. Obviously not, not a male-female subject, but I have to talk to people about money. We— that's what we should do. It's not a happiness hour, just an hour devoted to money and what you spend money on and what should be charged for. Anyway, in any event, just know that, that much is available to you., with the highest fidelity and commercial-free, you go to DennisPrager.com where it says Pragertopia. I have two websites, PragerRadio.com and DennisPrager.com, and that's at DennisPrager.com. All right, let's go to New Baltimore, Michigan. Mike, hello Mike, Dennis Prager.

Hello Dennis, it's an honor to talk to you. Thank you.

I just wanted to say that I lost my best friend about a little over 2 years ago, my wife of 23-plus years.

Oh, and very young. Yes, well, at 52. Anyway, our first 20-plus years of marriage were fantastic. She liked dressing sexy, being sexy and all that, and the last couple of years as her body was ravaged by disease, everything broke down. I never saw her as a burden, and all those memories stayed fresh with me even to this day. And so when a person— like that one man said about being selfish— if you're selfish like that and these things happen in life, both the husband and wife will miss out if they are not thinking about taking care of the other one.

She— you know why that worked, Mike? Because she built up what I call a moral bank account with you over the course of all of that time. She worked on herself to be your sexy woman this— the same way she worked to be your sexy date before you married. That's exactly my point. God bless you. God, I'm so sorry about what happened. It just— it's heartbreaking. I have talked about the moral bank account idea. It's true in politics, it's true in our relations with our friends. We will all screw up one day, or some tragedy will happen, but you earn a great bank account if you keep making deposits. That's correct. And yes, to address the real issue, yes, guys want their, their wife to try to be sexy. That's correct. And women know this when they're dating. Why should it stop once you stop dating and get married? And guys, whatever you did, likewise, And that was the theme of this Male-Female Hour. I'm Dennis Prager.

Tomorrow on Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager.

I've got you under my skin. I have got you deep in the heart. Well, this is one of the songs that I will hear every day prior to the show, and I gotta tell you It puts me in a good mood. It does. It has a wonderful effect on me. And I just can't tell you how impressed I have been with listening to this guy sing.

Yeah, I'm 16 years old and I was in Tower Records, I think, one time.

And you know the little listening station things that they have in there?

I put on the headphones and there was a Frank Sinatra CD playing and I just just listened, and it kind of drew me in because it really sounded cool.

He smoked 2 unfiltered packs a day, uh, over long periods.

Although depending who you talk to, he stopped the heavy drinking, or the heaviest of the drinking, and cut back on the cigarettes in the weeks before an important concert or before a recording, even more so.

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