Julie Hartman Discusses College Admissions Scams Often Practiced by Affluent High Schoolers

So Julie, uh, what is on your mind today?

Well, what's on my mind today is I want to talk about something that has been on my mind for a very long time. And there is an epidemic I've noticed among high school students, both at elite, uh, private schools and elite public schools, where students— it's a huge scam— where students students fake that they have a learning disability or they pay off a doctor to get extra time on their exams. Usually, they use it to get extra time on the SAT or the ACT, although now it's gotten to the point where these students can get extra time just on their everyday exams, their math class, their English class. And I really want to talk about it because I think it, I think it touches on an issue that we talk, or you talk about a lot on this show, And it's the huge disparity between the affluent and the non-affluent in this country, not just in terms of the material things that they have, but in the way that they behave. And I don't think there's a greater example of that than what we're seeing at these high schools. I was actually reading a Wall Street Journal article about it, and they cited the fact that at certain public schools in Scarsdale and Weston, Connecticut, in affluent parts of Massachusetts, over a third of the student body at some of these schools get extra time on exams. Now, how does that work? Do all of these students have learning disabilities? Of course not. But they're doing it to game the system. And I am by no means saying that this is just a liberal thing. But the, the point that I do want to make is that What I've noticed is that a lot of these liberals, they'll wag their fingers and they'll preach about social justice, but then they don't practice it in their own lives. How is, how is this equality of opportunity? It's not.

It's fine. I did not know this, so this is a revelation to me. Uh, I'm not surprised in the least.

Well, I think the real issue— look, I have an older sister with very severe autism. I am incredibly sympathetic to people who genuinely have learning disabilities and they need extra time. But what bothers me is—and this is the biggest part of the scandal—in high school, when students get extra time on the SAT, they are not obligated to report it to colleges, because apparently it is a HIPAA violation. So that is what gives fuel to the scam, that people know that college admissions officers won't know that they got extra time, so now everyone is just pulling any card they have to get extra time. And the thing that, that is very absurd to me is, look, I applied to college 3 years ago. On that application, there is nothing they don't ask you. They ask you how much money your parents make, what religion you are, your gender identification, religion. You know, you have to pour your heart out on these essays about these intimate things, but they don't ask about if you get extra time on a test. I mean, that matters. All right. All right.

We're going to continue. Julie Hartman. Is it juliehartman.com, right? Julie—

Julie Dash Hartman. Oh, Julie Dash. Yes.

Okay. You can get in touch with her. So, so go on.

Well, I think there are two solutions to this, or two ways of going about it. And what I was saying before the break is that what fuels the scam is that people who get extra time on exams are not obligated to notify the colleges because it's a HIPAA violation. And I was saying that is absurd because on every single part of your application to college, they ask you the most personal personal details about your background.

Why is it a HIPAA violation to ask if you've been vaccinated?

Well, it's a good point. I agree with you. I agree. So they ask everything else about you, but they don't want to know if you got extra time. And so my point in bringing that up is to say, I believe, I strongly believe that if, if you had to report that you got extra time on an exam, we would weed out a lot of these people who are faking it because, because that's great. They would go, well, wait a minute, you know, you for your whole life didn't need extra time, then suddenly, poof, in 10th grade you need extra time. So that's the first thing. The second thing, Dennis, to your point, is perhaps what we do is we completely eliminate extra time, and, and those people who have a documented learning disability are judged based on that disability. So if they get a lower SAT score, the colleges will know that it's because of of that disadvantage. But the fact that they don't have to report it to colleges, that is the biggest fraud of all, because that's right, they can do it in secret. That's mind-blowing, isn't it? And the other thing, you have a great solution.

That, that's exactly right. Okay, go ahead.

I was, I was gonna say, and the other thing that I also wanted to talk about, and it's very related to the extra time scam, is that also in the, in these elite environments at these affluent public or private schools, I've noticed that a lot of people are, are starting their own charities. And it honestly is a bit comical. In 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th— or not 12th grade, but in those 3 grades— in order to get into college, and suddenly in 9th grade, people realize that they have a passion for something, and they start a charity, like opening an orphanage in a third world country, or a climate change charity, and they declare themselves themselves, I'm not kidding, the CEO of their own charity. You're 16 years old and you're the CEO of your own organization. And then, poof, the second they get into college, it's miraculous. The charity all of a sudden goes away. It ceases to exist. I mean, and obviously, it's incredibly dishonest because a lot of the motivation is to get into college. You are using someone else's lack of privilege to further your own. But also, I think, why, why are colleges rewarding this? Why are high school college counselors or teachers rewarding this? There are people a mile from my high school on Skid Row who need help. There are people in our own communities who need help. Why are, why are we allowing these high school students to start charities in third world countries? Let's take care of our own people first.

Well, I wonder if they were CEO of helping the homeless in their own community, why would that be looked at by the colleges less impressive?

Well, I mean, I'm very much in favor of it.

No, I know, but they assume that the college will value an orphanage in Guatemala more than a skid row in their neighborhood.

Because they want to go big. Homelessness in LA is not big. It's not— not that, you know, an affliction in the third world is glitzy per se, but it makes It makes you seem even more important that you're going across the world. That's the scope of your organization. Did you know kids who did this? Oh my God, did I know kids who did this?

Everyone. So many people did it. Really? That— it's actually funny. I would love to hear the names of these. What, what, what they came up with? Well, is it like, is it named after them? Like, you know, the Judd Taylor Orphanage in Honduras.

It— no, they have absurd, absurd names. The Worldwide— it's like Love for Lullabies, singing lullabies to, you know, underprivileged dogs who are out on the street in Guatemala. It's just, it's totally absurd.

It's beyond belief. Your solution— I love that you have to Just tell the college I took extra time.

Oh, completely. That would, that would eliminate so much of it. That's correct.

What does that have to do with the HIPAA violation? It's ridiculous. Not something you told your doctor. It's something you told the school in order to get more time. So I agree with you. Let's see. All right, we'll take calls when we get back. Anyway, Julie Hartman is at julie-hartman.com. She now has a way for you to contact her. I think the world of her, which is why she's on each week. I've not done this before.

Thank you. You're welcome.

So she's talking about the, uh, the number of people who take extra time because they say they have a disability, but they don't tell the college, and she thinks they should. And then there is the issue of founding a charity in high school to make it sound impressive. All right, Westchester County, New York. Sue. Hello, Sue.

Hi, Dennis. Hi, Julie. I'm finding this conversation fascinating because I'm living it. In Westchester County. It's worse, it's way worse than Julie is even saying. I've had, I have a couple of kids that have had, you know, they received disability accommodations early on, first and third grade, and were denied extra time when it came to the SAT. But their classmates who were all of a sudden diagnosed as sophomores and juniors got accommodations and extra time. Who were diagnosed as what?

As, as sophomores and juniors, I believe she said. So late in their career.

I thought that was a diagnosis. No, no, no, no, no, no.

Timing. No. So wait, yeah, no, time-wise, why, why were they given this time? Well, they, they claim they have all of a sudden, um, testing anxiety, or yes, I don't know, they go to a psychologist, they pay $5,000 to $10,000, they pay thousands of dollars and they get the diagnosis and it's going through. Whereas my child, who was diagnosed in third grade with auditory processing and, um, different forms of dyslexia, was denied by the ACT since third grade.

It's inevitable. It's inevitable once you start the issue. I'm very glad you called. I'm sorry about your kid. Testing anxiety. Well, I must admit I never had it because I didn't give a hoot about my grades. One of the reasons I'm a happy man. Julie-Hartman.com.