Knowles, Shapiro, and Hannity: A Conservative Power Hour

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On today's episode of Timeless Wisdom.

The West Side of LA has a lot more influence over the country than the West Side of Toledo. I mean, that's— and by the way, I don't— I'm not saying that's bad. I'm just saying if you have more influence over how other people live, you ought to consider yourself a steward of the country and you ought to make wise decisions.

Is that Gladiator, the music behind you?

Yes.

You know, it's very—

I can literally quote the whole movie. Maximus, will you not accept this great honor? Sire, with all my heart, no. That is why it must be you, Maximus. There you go. That's my best imitation. I love that movie. Every human being is sinned and fallen short of greatness. And by the way, I probably have a much longer list than you in life. I doubt it, but, uh, I know I—

we'll get together and compare.

Are we gonna get together over a cigar? For a big part of my life, which I guess made me a talk show host, right?

Yeah.

Nobody stereotypes more based on race, ethnicity, religion than people on the left. And so when they saw that my last name was Shapiro and then I went to Harvard Law School, that's great. And in Hollywood, there's really, you know, usually that's like a 98% bet. Well, unfortunately, they didn't even bother Googling.

I just need to tell you, that is what one of the funniest responses in 28 years of radio and of interviewing people.

That's coming up on Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager.

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Welcome to Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Hear thousands of hours of Dennis's lectures, courses, and classic radio programs. And to purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles, go to DennisPrager.com.

Hi everybody, welcome to The Dennis Prager Show, coming to you from Texas today. And I'm going to go straight to my guest. He's one of these people in the United States for whom the introduction is perfect. He needs no introduction. I, I can't imagine that there are 11 people listening who do not know who Tucker Carlson is. By the way, Tucker, I gotta ask you a question. How does that feel?

Well, I don't have any experience of it at all. I mean, I, you know, I have such a tiny life that I don't, you know, I don't really get a sense that people are watching my show, to be totally honest with you. You know, I live with my wife down the street from my brother and my dad and my college roommate, and I see the same people every day. So my life is not that different. But thank you.

Well, that—

no, I— you know what, it's a beautiful answer, and I'm not surprised it came from you. I— you radiate a decency and an integrity that is not common in your profession. I have absolutely nothing to gain by saying it. I'm not looking for a job, so I'm just—

I may be, so please keep a space for me.

Anyway, folks, Tucker Carlson, of course, of Fox News, the Tucker Carlson Tonight show. And I didn't even know it had a name. As far as I know, it's just Tucker Carlson. Anyway, he has a book out because he is thoughtful. That's the reason that I'm having him on with regard to this. I mean, a lot of people in television write books, God bless them, but Tucker Carlson is worth reading. And the book is Ship of Fools. It is a great, great title. How a Selfish Ruling Class Is Bringing America to the Brink of Revolution. So what does it mean, a ruling class? Who, who is in that class?

Well, the people that I grew up with.

Um, so just to be totally clear, I'm not much of a populist, and I'm certainly not a representative from coal country. I mean, I grew up in La Jolla and Georgetown, so it's basically people who have thrived under our current economic system. If you want to know, it's So, if you look around and you and the people you know are richer than they were before the financial crisis of 2008, you know, you're probably in that group. And it's not a slur, it's just, you know, every society is hierarchical because people are hierarchical. I mean, dogs are hierarchical, mammals are. So you're always going to have a relatively small number of people who make a disproportionate number of decisions. The question is not, are you going to have a ruling class, the question is, are they up to the task of ruling? And my argument is that the people currently in charge are not, and that's why we got Trump.

Okay, so, so this—

that's a—

there's a very heavy stuff there. Let me, let me dissect this for a second. Ruling class for you is an economic criterion, not a political or prestige criterion?

Well, it is both. It is both. It's the— it's the— look, So if you look around a country of 335 million, there are almost an infinite number of decisions to be made about how those people live, what they can say, what they do for a living. And a relatively small number of people make a disproportionate number of those decisions. So the economic decisions are made disproportionately in New York on Wall Street, in Washington by the Federal Reserve. The political decisions are made almost exclusively in Washington. Decisions about what your kids watch on TV or see on the internet are made almost exclusively in California, New York, and Los Angeles. And so, you know, the West Side of LA has a lot more influence over the country than the West Side of Toledo. I mean, that's— and by the way, I don't—

I'm not saying that's bad.

I'm just saying if you have more influence over how other people live, you ought to consider yourself a steward of the country, and you ought to make wise decisions, not just decisions that benefit you. And our leadership hasn't, and that's okay.

What—

what, in your mind, was there a time when the elite was steering the ship in a good direction?

Well, I mean, you know, in a democracy, you need to start from first principles. So in a democracy, you must have— it's prerequisite for a functioning democracy— that you have an independent, self-supporting, growing middle class. You have to have a middle class. Democracy only works in middle class countries. It doesn't work in, say, Venezuela, where you have this dramatic wealth divide, because if you give every person the vote, but not an economic franchise, they punish you by electing people like Hugo Chávez or Nicolás Maduro. So you need a middle class. You can judge the efficacy and the wisdom of the ruling class by how well the middle class, the people beneath them, are doing. And our middle class is shrinking in absolute terms, our life expectancy is in decline. And so that's like the most simple measure there is. That's all you need to know, is that our middle class is no longer a majority as of 2015, and the people in charge ought to be worried about that. They're not.

Alright, so there it's— are they identical issues, the decline of the middle class and, and tell me if this is a fair summary of your view, a corrupted elite?

Well, I think it's probably slightly more complicated and I think there are factors that I don't understand very precisely. I mean, you know, nothing is the result of one cause, of course. That's always— oversimplification is always the problem when you're writing about this stuff. So, I mean, I'm sure there's a lot going on. Our economy has changed in ways because of automation and the rise of finance that are the product of no one person's decision. I mean, this is not a conspiracy, I wouldn't say, but it's a confluence of a bunch of different factors that have converged to hurt the middle class, to devalue labor so that the labor of the individual is worth much less than it was in 1970. Because of automation and technology. And all of that has made the average person less powerful, less affluent, and less likely to believe that his kids will do better than he will— has, which is of course the American dream. All of that makes our society more volatile. And our ruling class, whose job it is to think about stuff like this and to steer the ship in the right direction, has ignored all of it, has refused to take responsibility for their decisions, refused to admit they're even a ruling class or even in charge. And that's why we're seeing the volatility. I mean, one of the big changes, which is so striking to me as someone who's interested in the progressive movement and Teddy Roosevelt and the era of the robber barons, was that Carnegie and Rockefeller and Phipps and, you know, the people who we think of as, you know, the fat cats of 1915, they understood themselves to be the ruling class. They knew they were the richest, most privileged people in the society, and they understood that came with responsibilities as well as benefits. Our current ruling class, Jeff Bezos and Mark Zuckerberg and the Twitter guys and, you know, Travis over at Uber. I mean, these are kids who have a billion dollars or several, but they dress in t-shirts and act as if they're just like you and me. They refuse to shoulder the responsibilities that come with the power they wield, and that's part of the problem.

What would they do differently if they were responsible?

Well, the first thing you would do if you're an employer, if you're running a large corporation, is think about the welfare of your own employees. So it's always a tell, and this is universal on the left, when people start talking about abstract ideas rather than concrete solutions. So in other words, if I run Uber, for example, I've got one of the largest workforces in the world. I think the second largest workforce in the world. So before I started lecturing you about climate change or Black Lives Matter, I would— the first thing I would do is make certain that every one of my employees was treated as well as I could possibly treat them. I would, I don't know, give them health insurance, pay them minimum wage. I would do those things because they're my employees, and like my own children, I'm responsible for them to some extent. I believe that. And earlier generations of leaders believed that. They were motivated by, in part, the guilt they felt from their religious convictions. They felt they had a duty to other people. Our current leaders, for example at Uber, don't even claim them as employees. The Uber drivers don't have health insurance. They're not Uber employees, they are contractors. They're part of this gig economy. And so we're letting the most powerful off the hook for their obligations to their fellow man, and at the same time we're allowing them to lecture the rest of us as if they're our moral superiors. It's a very odd arrangement. So Travis from Uber is totally confident he's a much better person than you. Even as one-third of Uber drivers lose money driving for Uber. So how does that work exactly? I'm baffled.

I'm speaking with Tucker Carlson of Fox News. His book just out is Ship of Fools. The subtitle is How a Selfish Ruling Class Is Bringing America to the Brink of Revolution. This is not at all a criticism, it is only an observation, and I'd like you to react to it. Your critique is a critique that would resonate 100% with folks on the left. Is that fair to say?

Not anymore. My critique is one that would have been common among liberals in 1975, when liberals worried about, or said they worried about, things like concentration of power and free speech and due process. And the, you know, these were the liberal obsessions of my childhood because they instinctively sided with the powerless against the powerful. 40 years later, liberals wield the power. Every one of our institutions, our biggest institutions— academic, business, political— they're all run by cultural liberals, all of them. And so now the left has power and they identify with the powerful.

Fascinating.

All right, hold on there, Tucker. We got to take a break. Tucker Carlson of Fox News, Ship of Fools. This is a thoughtful man. It's a concise book. By the way, apropos of that, what you just heard, we're honored that Tucker Carlson is giving a PragerU video that will come out in about 2 weeks on immigration, and it's terrific. Tucker Carlson is my guest. He has written just now, it has come out, Ship of Fools, and it's about how the elites are hurting the United States, and, and that goes just across the board. Uh, let me, let me give you a headline from today, and I would like you to tell me if that, if that is related to your thesis. Okay, uh, and here it is. Okay, so here it is: half of U.S. births are out of wedlock now. For— it's up over 40%, up from 10% in 1970. Does this have anything to do with the elites?

Well, it's at the core of it.

I mean, by the way, that's a disaster, not simply on a moral level, though I think it is, but on a practical one. There are reams of social science that make the indisputable point that children, particularly boys, raised in single-parent homes by their mothers are much more likely to fail in school and to fail in life, to develop addictions, to wind up in prison, they make less, they're more likely to be divorced or have out-of-wedlock children themselves. I mean, there's no upside to that. This at all. And so if you're running the country and you have an actual interest in its long-term success, you're very concerned about this and you're going to do whatever you can to make it better. Our elites, the Republican Party, is so focused on marginal tax rates, they don't feel— that's sort of the province of icky evangelicals, they can't get involved. You know, you don't want to sound like Jerry Falwell, so don't say anything about it. And on the Democratic side, single mothers are the core of their base. Single mothers are much more dependent on government, of course, They tend to be overwhelmingly Democrat. And so the last thing you want to do, and the last thing they do do, is suggest that single motherhood is less preferable than raising children in a two-parent biological household. So both sides are kind of allied unintentionally in downplaying or ignoring this problem. Meanwhile, it guts the country. And can I just say one other thing? There is no single parenthood in my neighborhood. I live in an affluent neighborhood, maybe you do too, maybe some of your listeners do, and you know that it's like 1955 in our neighborhoods. Nobody gets divorced. There are no single moms on my street. Of course not, because the ruling class understands that marriage is the key to prosperity and happiness, and so they don't practice this themselves, their children don't practice it. So really, like, divorce rates among rich people are very low. It's the middle of the country. It's the former middle class that is in, in social disarray. And this is a huge problem. I'm not attacking anybody. I'm saying that if you really cared about the middle class, you would be doing whatever you could to make it easier for people to stay married and raise children intact.

So, okay, there was a vice president, Dan Quayle, you may recall, and he spoke out about Murphy Brown, the TV character who had a child out of wedlock, and he was buried. By the national media, by academia, etc. So I think that Republicans— and incorrectly— but I think Republicans got burned and they realized, 'Hey, if we talk about social issues, we're doomed.' But then you wake up one morning—

you're exactly right, that is what happened. I've lived in D.C. from that moment until now, so I can confirm what you just said, that that's the conclusion they drew. But then you wake up one morning and you realize, you know, tax rates are actually— and I'm for lower taxes, by the way, I'm not arguing for higher taxes, but they're relatively easy to change. You just need a majority vote in the Congress and a president willing to sign it. What's very hard to change is the culture and the structure of the family. And if that's destroyed, you know, it takes, you know, generations to fix it, if it can be fixed. Like, your civilization will collapse. So Republicans kind of missed the actual story, which is social issues are the issues. Your economy and your civil society grow out of the kind of life you are living. That's what they should have been focused on, and because they're dumb and cowardly and they listened to the advice of a couple of overpaid and unwise consultants, they didn't do that. And I think the smart ones regret it now.

The smart ones are what?

They regret it now.

Oh, really? They know that. What leads you to think that?

Well, because, I mean, you look around Washington and, you know, most conservatives in D.C. work at nonprofit think tanks. And there are a lot of really great people and nice people who work at these think tanks, but they've consumed billions of dollars in contributions over the past 40 years, and America has not become more conservative. And the smart ones are asking, well, where did we go wrong? And it's not that they're not smart, or they didn't try hard, or they didn't have the best intentions. They did have the best intentions, but they were focused on the wrong thing. What you should care about is the way people live. The family is the very center. It's the atom in matter. It's the core building block of everything. And when that collapses, there's no hope of doing anything positive. So, and they ignored that, and I think they know that now.

This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

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Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.

There's a new book out, Prime Time Propaganda: The True Hollywood Story of How the Left Took Over Your TV. I can't think— I could think of equally important subjects, but I can't think of a more important domestic subject than what has happened with Hollywood because of its influence through film, through theater, through television. And, uh, Ben Shapiro, the author— and many of you are familiar with him, uh, he started writing columns at the age of 3. It's— it says here 17, but that, that's only when he became syndicated. I know for a fact that he was writing columns at 3 and started charging at 4. Ben Shapiro has his own radio show in Orlando, and it's a pleasure to have you back on the show, Ben Shapiro. How's married life, Ben?

Oh, terrific. Couldn't— can't beat it. I couldn't be happier, and I encourage everyone who's single out there, please do it. It's fantastic.

You won't regret it.

I'm glad I asked. You see, I am. Now, this is really— in all seriousness, this is an important book —because they opened up, people in Hollywood opened up to Ben Shapiro, which leads me to ask the obvious question: why did they open up to you?

See, this is the beautiful thing about the left, Dennis. They stereotype on a regular basis. I mean, I know you talk about this a lot. Nobody stereotypes more based on race, ethnicity, religion than people on the left. And so when they saw that my last name was Shapiro and then I went to Harvard Law School— Ah, that's great! They immediately assumed that I must be one of them. And in Hollywood, usually that's like a 98% bet. Well, unfortunately for them, they didn't even bother Googling. The other reason is because when I first approached them, Dennis, I wrote in the email to them that I was doing a book about—

Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait, wait, Ben.

Ben, hold on. And the progress thereof from Dick Van Dyke Show to Sex and the City, which is exactly what the book is about. I think they probably stopped reading at biggest names in the television industry because it's such an ego-driven town that everybody wants to be in a book published by HarperCollins discussing the biggest names in the industry. All these people like to think of themselves that way, so it's kind of flattering.

I, I, I, I was yelling, hold on for a moment, but I know you were, you're in the midst of a thought, but I just need to tell you, that is one of the funniest responses in 28 years of radio and of interviewing people. I, why did they open— I am so happy I asked you that question, folks. I want to put this in context, how funny It's funny because it's so true. And then your line, "They didn't even bother Googling," I thought I'd fall off my chair. I don't think you realize how funny this is. Why did they open up to you in Hollywood? Ben Shapiro is a respected conservative, a talker and writer and so on, but they didn't know that. And the reason they don't know that, number one, then I'll tell you his answer. This is very important. The reason they don't know it is they don't read. Anything they don't agree with. So it wouldn't— it doesn't matter if he said, "If you were Tom Sowell," they wouldn't— they would have done the same because he's black and they would have assumed that he's liberal. But your answer was great. Shapiro, Harvard Law, of course the guy's one of us. It's awesome. So okay, so you're going to write a book, they're going to be in a book published by HarperCollins, which is my publisher too, and fine. So they open up to you and you ask them what?

And I ask them, you know, is it true that you're mostly interested in the money in the industry, or is there an element of social messaging to what you do as well? Do you— I kind of speak their language a little bit. You know, are you interested in pursuing social justice with your programming? And since I'm using code words like social justice, the answer, of course, is yes. Now, I also ask them, do they discriminate against conservatives in Hollywood? Does discrimination against conservatives happen on a regular basis? And they also answered yes, and some of them actually said, yeah, and we're happy about it. Now, what's so funny about this is one of the people who said that, a guy named Vin DiBona, who's a producer for America's Funniest Home Videos and MacGyver, he's, you know, a very well-respected name in town. Vin said that I had been deceitful in obtaining the interview. And Variety asked me about this, and what I said to Variety is, look, the content of the question is what he should be answering. He shouldn't be answering based on who I am. So what he was really saying when he said I was being deceitful is if he had known I was a conservative, he would have lied.

That's exactly, exactly— that's where your law background came into play. That, that's exactly right. What's the difference? If somebody came to me and asked, do you molest children? I'm not going to answer them based on their politics. I mean, I'm not comparing what they do to molesting children. I'm just saying though, I will give the same answer to anybody who asks me a question.

Right, exactly. And I'll tell you something, it's been fascinating to watch as they kind of try and spin their way out of this. One of the people I interviewed for Prime Time Propaganda was Mara Kaufman, who's one of the— she was the co-creator of Friends, which is of course one of the most successful sitcoms in television history. And I asked her about, you know, does— did she message the program? And she said, look, we're a bunch of liberals in the writers' room, and not only are we a bunch of liberals— yeah, you know, in the first season there's a lesbian wedding on the first season of Friends. And this is very early in the kind of lesbian wedding storytelling in television. This is like the early '90s. It only really started becoming a big phenomenon mid to late '90s. And she said, when we did that episode, we made sure that we cast Candace Gingrich, who is Newt's half-sister and happens to be a lesbian, as the pastor at the lesbian wedding, as a quote-unquote "FU to the right." Right? So I catch her on tape saying this, and I release the tape, and she starts getting calls from The Hollywood Reporter and Variety, and she says, "You know what? You know, when Shapiro talks about discrimination in Hollywood and messaging of programming, I think that's all silly." She says, "I don't know a single conservative who'd want to write for Friends." That was her answer. It might have been right. I bet she doesn't know a single conservative.

Well, that's exactly right. But what— it's unbelievable that she would have said that. But in any event, it's a non sequitur. Right. It doesn't answer the question, is this your policy? Right, exactly.

And here's the thing about discrimination in Hollywood, and it's becoming a big issue. By the way, Norman Lear is supposed to call me on Monday to have a discussion about this. I've called on Norman Lear, who is kind of the dean of Hollywood writers. To come out front and center, and he's supposed to be the First Amendment advocate, well, come out front and center and stand up against political discrimination in the industry. Well, Norman, his people called me yesterday, 'cause I've been openly calling for him to do something. They said he's going to call me on Monday, so hopefully he'll stand up for his principles. I mean, I think principled people on the left should be able to agree that everybody should be able to work in Hollywood regardless of political orientation, but I can tell you for a fact, if you voted for Prop 8, if you contributed money to Prop 8, you will not work in Hollywood, period, end of story.

What happened? Here's my question. Uh, I'm a generation before you, and I grew up with very, very wholesome television. When did it change?

The real shift in TV occurs in the late 1960s, early 1970s. And what's amazing about the shift in TV, it occurred as a consequence of two things. One is that the executives up till the late 1960s were generally numbers-focused. They were mostly interested in making money. By the time you hit the late '60s, a lot of the executives become kind of gut-focused, right? They start making green-lighting decisions based on what I like. These are the Fred Silvermans of the world. And so that shift means that all of a sudden the executives who had been kind of in tension with liberal creators up till then, suddenly they're all pulling in the same direction. So that's one factor. The other factor is that it's a combination of business and politics. In the late 1960s, there are only three networks: NBC, ABC, CBS. CBS is killing everyone in the ratings with shows like Beverly Hillbillies, Green Acres and Petticoat Junction, right? Those are rural shows. Those are shows that tend to lean conservative, if anything. And CBS is just destroying everyone. ABC is getting really kicked around. And ABC is getting kicked around largely because they only have affiliates in the major urban areas. They only have affiliates in Chicago, New York, LA. So if they're getting kicked around, how do they make the case to advertisers that advertisers should spend their money with them if they have less numbers? Well, what they do is they go out and they create some kind of phony social science. And they say, well, you know what, even though we have less viewers, they're the right viewers. They're aged 18 to 49. They're liberal, young, and urban. And that's the group that we should be targeting. Now, ad agency executives in New York tend to be liberal, young, and urban, so they buy right into that. And they start spending their ad dollars there. In 1970-'71, CBS dumps all of its top 10 programming, all of it, in favor of M*A*S*H, Mary Tyler Moore, and All in the Family. Because all of a sudden, this becomes the chief demographic. And by the way, this is still the demographic that we use today. Day, this 18 to 49 crowd. The only problem is it makes no sense whatsoever. People with disposable income in this country are people aged 50 and above, people who have savings, people who have worked their entire lives. People who are 18 to 29, people who are 18 to 34, that demographic which is supposed to be so coveted, those people are living in mom and dad's basement. They're unemployed right now. So why in the world would the TV industry keep targeting them? Excellent, excellent.

Hello, my friends, I'm Dennis Dennis Prager, and I'm speaking with Ben Shapiro, and it's a real smoking gun book. And it just— it's their own words. He interviewed leading folks in Hollywood, and they openly say, we discriminate in favor of folks on the left, and we produce programming that is on the left, and that is our task. And they're proud of it. They thought they were speaking— he didn't mislead them, they just thought because he has a Jewish name and went to Harvard Law School and he's writing for HarperCollins, writing a book for HarperCollins, then he must be a liberal, and they just opened up. And I find that to be hilariously accurate. I asked you how it changed. Let me take a couple of calls for you, Ben Shapiro. The book again is up at DennisPrager.com, "Prime Time Propaganda." Good title, that's exactly what it is. Steven in Los Angeles, California. You're on with Ben Shapiro and Dennis Prager. Hi. Hi.

Uh, yeah, I'm a, uh, I'm a closeted Hollywood Republican because out here, uh, Republican is the new gay, so you don't really want to tell anybody.

Um, everything Ben is saying is absolutely true.

It's, it's—

I mean, I've been in a lot of writers' rooms.

Everything is absolutely true. And one of the things that I wanted to ask Ben about is if anyone discussed the diversity hire, which is a thing in the—

basically in the television for writing staff where studios will pay for the lowest level writer on staff, a staff writer, if they're a minority. And it's not open to white people.

It's only open to minorities.

And I know a lot of people— well, particularly very left writers that have gotten— that have missed out on jobs because they can't get them.

It's not available, you know, it's only available to minorities.

You mean a white left-wing writer? Yes. Yes, okay, fine. Not even— not right, white. Ben Shapiro?

Yeah, I mean, they do have affirmative action programs in place in most of Hollywood to try and get black and Hispanic writers through the door. There's There's certainly no such thing with regard to conservatives, and nor should there be. There shouldn't be for blacks and Hispanics, and there shouldn't be for conservatives. It should be, if you're qualified, you get to write. Unfortunately, that really is not the way it works. I mean, it's so funny. When I started writing this book, I had no intention whatsoever of actually writing for TV, right? This was not my goal. I was contracted to write a book, I was writing a book. One of the people I interviewed was Leonard Goldberg, who happens to be a political independent, and he produces CBS's Blue Bloods. Well, Leonard, we kind of hit it off, and he asked me, why don't you write me a pilot based on Harvard Law School? So I said, "Sure." You know, big producer asks you to write a pilot, you do it. So I wrote him a pilot. Then I went and I got an agent in town, major agent in town. Everything was going swimmingly. About 3 weeks later, the agent calls me up. I knew this was coming. The agent calls me up and he says, "You know, Ben, I'm not sure we can represent you." And I said, "Oh, really? Why is that?" He said, "Well, you know, we started getting your stuff around to people in the industry and one of the producers was interested and he Googled you and he found you and he called up one of our agents. Our agent Googled you, found your website." We don't think that you can get work in this town with your politics.

Wow. Just point—

not like I'm a career writer. This is me just dipping my toe in, so I can't even imagine what it's like for people like you.

Let me, let me put it this way, and if I'm in any way— and I, and you know I mean this because, you know, you've heard me, and I'm thrilled that you have, for many years. So, you know, absolutely, if you feel that I have overstated this, please say so. I believe that you have a better chance to write in Hollywood if you are— if you were a convicted felon for armed robbery but on the left, then if you have a squeaky clean life but you're on the right.

That is 100% true, Dennis, and you're 100% right. I mean, that's— unfortunately, if you are openly on the right, then the chances of work— it's so funny, the left likes to point to, you know, Patricia Heaton and Kelsey Grammer. Look, they're right-wingers. Yeah, well, they weren't right-wing when they started, or at least openly right-wing. I mean, it's the equivalent of a black guy who wants to get into a racist condominium HOA, right? So he paints himself white, he goes in, 20 years later he tells them, "Hey, guess what, I'm black." At that point everyone's like, "OK, you know, he's a nice guy." That doesn't mean they're not a bunch of racists.

The same thing— No, that's right.

—in regard to bigotry in the Hollywood community. I mean, the fact is that even people like Patricia Heaton, who is very out, you know, in terms of being anti-abortion, and who works a lot, Right? Even Patricia Heaton has said she's felt discrimination. And more than that, I think what's really telling is that Patty came out about 3 weeks ago and she said that she was pro-gay marriage. Now, I, you know, I'll take her at her word, she's pro-gay marriage, but I do have to say that if she had said that she was anti-gay marriage, there would have been career ramifications. That right now is the bright-line test. If you are anti-gay marriage in Hollywood, there is no way you'll work.

That is. I know that. Right before you were on, I spoke about that. That is the issue. That's the third rail of politics today, more so even than abortion.

Absolutely.

You can be anti-abortion in Hollywood at this point because the left has come around to the safe, legal, and rare position, the most oxymoronic position on abortion ever taken. But, um, it's— but, but they've come around on that one. They realize it's not a popular point of view to point out that, that— to say that abortion is an affirmative good. But you are by nature a bigot, a discriminatory person, just somebody who is the root of all, of all moral evil. If you oppose gay marriage. And by the way, I think this is an important point, and the reason I think it's important is because it really sheds light on how Hollywood goes about convincing people of their views. When it comes to gay marriage, what they do is— the left likes to make the argument with gay marriage— you've talked about it a lot on the program— the left loves to make the argument that you cannot be anti-gay marriage if you have a gay friend, right? This is their argument. The problem is there's no logic to that argument. Of course you can have a gay friend and be anti-gay marriage. You know, I'm anti a lot of the things my friends do. Dennis Prager. But it's an emotional appeal, and it works very well. What the left does on television is they create a set of friends for you, people who you want to hang out with, people who you spend more time with in many cases than your own family, who are charming, who are witty. And then they have those characters act in such a way that you don't agree with what they're doing, but you still want to spend time with them. And then they basically make the same emotional appeal that they've made with regard to gay marriage. Well, how can you possibly be against single motherhood if you like Rachel on Friends? Right? How can you possibly be against gay marriage if you enjoy Will Grace?

That is extremely well stated. The notion is if you have compassion for X, therefore your position is X. And, and, and it— they're not related. Exactly, exactly right. Ben, you wrote a very important book, and I don't say that often, Primetime Propaganda. It's a pleasure to talk to you. I've known you many years. Keep up the good work.

Well, thanks so much, and keep up the fantastic bumper music. I love the eclecticism. Really?

Well, I get no credit for it. If it were up to me, it would be all Haydn all day.

Well, you know, you do have to get people to listen in and not tune out in the first place.

We know. I've been told that. That's why I don't choose the bumper music. Thanks, Ben. Take care.

This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

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Now back to more of Dennis Prager's timeless wisdom.

Sean Hannity Sean Hannity is one of those who was in the realm. Yes, sir.

First of all, happy birthday. Can you hear me? I hear you, Craig. Thank you very much. Number 2, is that Gladiator, the music behind you?

Yes. You know, I can literally quote the whole movie.

Maximus, will you not accept this great honor? Sire, with all my heart, no. That is why it must be you, Maximus. There you go. That's my— that's my best imitation. I love that movie. Love it. How are you, my friend? Happy birthday. Thank you.

I need to tell you, this is the most auspicious opening of an interview in my 35 years in radio. You know, by the way, to your credit, a lot of people think that that is from, I think, Pirates of the Caribbean. So really? Yes. Uh, I think they're both Hans Zimmer. And right, so they confuse that and they get very adamant, but you hit it right on the nose. I feel, by the way, with this theme, I have sort of ruined the movie for a lot of people.

No, I don't think you did at all.

And by the way, then the line goes on, he goes, well, what about Commodus? Commodus is not a moral man. You have known this since your youth. Okay, now how crazy is that, that I can quote every part of it? Same with Braveheart. Uh, two of my favorite movies, Passion of the Christ, uh, makes me cry every time I watch it. There's— I just love— I, I love watching brave gladiators. We need more of them in life and in the world. I love MMA. I love, uh, and I love football because it's so hard and tough. And it's also the danger element of both is real. But, you know, if you're going to live life, I think the way God wants us to live, you got to be a gladiator. You got to be willing to go out into the arena and, you know, win the fight and then throw your sword up and say, are you not entertained? Um, we need Americans fighting for liberty, my friend.

Wow, that was a great beginning. Well, everybody, this is Sean Hannity. Let me ask you a question that I am, uh, just deeply troubled by. My kids obviously are grown, and one of them has kids of his own, But where would you tell a couple to send their children today?

You know, let me tell you where you are so far ahead of the curve. Now, what did we learn during the pandemic? I learned that 90% of the people that work on my radio or TV show not only can work from home, they're happier from home, and they're more productive from home. Because they're not wasting an hour, 2 hours every day, you know, trugging into work, and they, they enjoy it. We can actually monitor exactly how much time they spend on their computer. So, well, I'm not for spying in any way, shape, matter, or form, but we hold people accountable. And what did we learn? Telemedicine is going to be the future, where you will have access to a doctor 24 hours a day. My kids would always get the crook, Dennis and it was the same routine. They'd say, you know, I'd go to the emergency room, I'd be holding steam in front of their face, falling asleep at 3 or 4 in the morning. And then in the end they'd say, oh, here's the medicine. The, the steam never works. So finally I said, can you just give me the medicine so I have it standing by next time? After like 5 times of going through that. Telemedicine is the future. Um, I think teleworking is the future. I think what you're talking about and what you have created is probably— you were way ahead of the curve, and that's tele-education. Think about this. You know, I always talk about law and order, safety and security as the most fundamental obligation of any elected politician. We see all these cities that have one thing in common, and that is governors that are Democratic that have been running those cities into the ground for decades. People aren't safe, they aren't secure. Usually the same cities have the worst educational system. As a nation, we pay more per capita per student per education than any country in the industrialized world, and we come in like 37th, 38th, or 40th. There is in Baltimore— it's the third highest per capita per student spending on education in Baltimore— 13 Baltimore public high schools You probably know the answer. What percentage do you think are proficient in math? You don't— it's not a test. The answer is there's not one single child, Dennis Prager. Now I'll give you more Latin. Latin from the education derivative of education from the Latin is educere, to bring forth from within. Well, that fits in with our founding document, our Declaration, that we're endowed by not the thing, you know, the thing— oh, what is the thing? But we're endowed by a Creator who created everything, and with, you know, certain inalienable rights: life, liberty, pursuit of happiness. If you're not safe and secure, Dennis Prager, you cannot pursue happiness. If you don't get a quality education— and we are failing our children spectacularly— you will be shut out of opportunity in this country because your politicians didn't, didn't fulfill their fundamental role. So tying this back to PragerU, I'll say this: why not put online K-12 education? I don't even care if it's preschool through 12 education. So if any parent in America is, is, is in a failing public school system, that if they choose, they will be able to go online for free and work with their children or their grandchildren or a neighborhood, uh, kid that somebody needs some love and attention, and go through the curriculum, which will guarantee they know how to read, write, do math, and actually learn history. Now, that's the new— that, that is the new age. That's the future shock that Alvin Poplar talked about so long ago, and Newt often discussed. So what you're doing with PragerU, we could do for every child in this country and guarantee them a quality education. You want to keep politics out of it? Uh, do reading, writing, and math.

Exactly. Wow. This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

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Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.

Dennis, I have been enjoying the timeless wisdom again. I listened for years. You have impacted my life positively with your humility, intellect, ability to communicate, your sense of humor, fascinating subjects. But I am a physician who would, with sleepless nights, do jigsaw puzzles listening to your recordings. I have done no jigsaw puzzles since your injury, but now maybe I can resume that I have found timeless wisdom again. I've Mod Podged those jigsaw puzzles and plastered them on the wall of our grandchildren's playroom, but I want you to know that we pray for you here in Utah, and I'm grateful to know that You still have your intellect despite the other tragedy. We've all experienced tragedies, but we love you and want you to know of your importance to us.

Thank you. Are you enjoying Timeless Wisdom? We'd love to hear from you. Call 877-243-7776 and leave a review, share your thoughts, or just even an encouraging word for Dennis Prager. Your voicemail might just make it on the show. That's 877-243-7776. That's 877-243-7776. Thanks for listening and for your support.

A kindred spirit here in Sean Hannity and his book. So it's so accurate, Live Free or Die. Uh, you know, I just want to bounce a theory of mine off you, Sean. Uh, freedom is a value, not an instinct. People's instincts are to be taken care of. Liberty is a value, not an instinct. So when you lose that value, it's, it's over.

Wow. You know, you're saying what Thomas Paine said. I, I mentioned earlier, whether guides and dictates of human conscience— that means God irresistibly obeyed. There'd be no need for any other lawgiver. But it— but what I didn't— what I didn't say, I'll add now: government in its best state is but a necessary evil, in its worst state an intolerable one.

You see, I actually—

I believe the American people, we are a fundamentally good people. We share, you know, on our medical breakthroughs and discoveries. Um, you think about how whatever— remember back in the last century, they were arguing whether they should close the Patent Office because everything that could be created was created.

Remember that? Yep.

And, you know, look at how— look, that was before we even had an airplane. Yep. You know, look at travel today. Look at, you know, we— I guess we had the, uh, the Musk, um, uh, you know, partner public— public-private partnership, uh, land. I didn't see it yet. And I'm just thinking, we are the greatest country and it's all because of freedom and liberty. That has, you know, everybody thinks, I think there's a psychological appeal to people that, and again, we believe in natural rights. Our rights come from God, not government, endowed by our creator. And which is the opposite of statism. And if that's true, that that's where our rights come from, okay, then that means we have to find that within ourselves that God put there to bring forth from within. And then in a free society like the United States, then you get to go out and share what you learn with the world and make the world a better place, to make the country a more, a more perfect union. We're not perfect, and yes, we, we are flawed. Every country is flawed. Because every human is flawed.

Countries are made of humans.

Every human being is sinned and fallen short. Yeah, exactly. And by the way, I probably have a much longer list than you in life. I doubt it, but, uh, I know I—

we'll get together and compare.

Are we going to get together over a cigar? For a big part of my life, which I guess made me a talk show host, right?

Yeah.

Oh my God, but where does all this innovation come from? Where do all these breakthroughs come from?

How do we, you know, think about—

imagine with life without a washer and a dryer and a microwave and a stove and electricity. You know, all of these things, we're always advancing the human condition. You know, the beauty of our founders and framers— and I do, this was the hardest chapter for me to write, it just was hard Um, is the first chapter. In other words, what made America great? What are the principles, the guiding principles, the Judeo-Christian principles? You know, while everybody— it might be a great appeal to say everything in your life is going to be free, free government healthcare, free education, guaranteed job, guaranteed wage, guaranteed salary, guaranteed retirement, guaranteed this. Here's the question I have: when has government gotten it right that you're going to buy into that total BS? How did Obamacare work out? Millions lost their doctors, millions lost their plans, and we're all paying 200% more. That's right. How did— how's our educational system? We talk about it, it's a disaster. Why would we trust them with anything else? That would be the dumbest decision we could ever make as a country.

God, is that true. Well, your book is one of the antidotes, as is your show. Sean, I just gotta tell you, uh, I have a saying every one of my listeners knows. Good people are divided into 3 groups: the fighters, those who help the fighters, and those who do nothing. You, sir, are one of the fighters. You know what?

I, I, I'm, I'm honored you would even suggest that. It's my honor. I've been blessed beyond anything I ever deserve in life, and I want every American child to have the education, have the security and safety of where they live, and to find what God put in their hearts for them in their lives.

So we can become a more perfect union and a better people, always striving to be better. We will.

Thank you, my friend. Amen.

From your lips. All right, my friend, God bless you. Thank you so much. I appreciate you having me on.

It's a delight. Truly, it was a the light.

Tomorrow on Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager.

Woman just came over to me at my speech, and this was very, very moving. Dennis, and I almost in tears, I want you to know your Happiness Book changed my life. I want to read to you the paragraph that Dennis Prager did it. Not having received appropriate love from a parent is a real hole in a child's life. It is a missing tile. When there is a missing tile in your life, while nothing will precisely replace the missing love of a parent, life gives many of us a chance to fill the emotional holes of our childhood. You can greatly compensate for the missing love of your parent by loving your child. Becoming a loving parent gives many of us a second chance to have a home filled with love. You can also bask in the love of your husband or wife, in the love of friends, or in the love of relatives other than your parents. We need parental love, but that is not the only love available to us or the only love that can fill our heart.

This has been Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Visit DennisPrager.com for thousands of hours of Dennis's lectures, courses, and classic radio programs, and to purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles. We want to take just a second to thank the team at Life Audio for their partnership with us on the podcast. Go to LifeAudio.com to find dozens of other faith-centered podcasts in their network, including shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and more.

If you're eating less, staying disciplined, and the weight still isn't coming off, the problem may not be your effort. It may be your metabolism. After years of stress, dieting, and lack of sleep, the body adapts. It slows down and holds on to fat. That's why PhD Weight Loss focuses on your metabolism first, so your body stops working against you. Mention Prager today and receive 2 free weeks plus free food, a $1,500 value. Call 864-644-1900. That's 864-644-1900.