In this interview, Dennis Prager and policy analyst Phil Kerpen discuss how media coverage and epidemiological modeling contributed to the United States' severe COVID‑19 outcomes. Kerpen argues that media pressure forced politicians into overly restrictive lockdowns, especially in states like New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Massachusetts, leading to higher nursing‑home death rates. He contrasts this with Sweden’s low‑stringency approach, noting Sweden’s relatively low death toll and reduced economic and social damage despite early nursing‑home issues. The conversation then turns to mask mandates: Kerpen claims the scientific evidence for masks is weak, citing CDC and WHO reviews that suggest only a minimal effect, and he questions the rationale for masking children and outdoor mask requirements. He also critiques the public display of vaccinated leaders wearing masks as irrational modeling. The interview concludes with Kerpen promoting his free daily newsletter from the Committee to Unleash Prosperity, which covers COVID‑19 policy, taxes, spending, and energy.
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So in effect, it's the media that has destroyed the economies and the well-being of societies. Is that fair to say?
Uh, yes, I think the coverage has been disgraceful. I think the media has bullied politicians essentially into making a lot of very bad decisions. That said, you know, ultimately the political leaders still make the decisions, and so the media can create the incentive structure for them to make bad decisions, but let's not let them off the hook.
Okay, I'm with you. And let's not let off the hook the, the modelers in the science community.
Yeah, the models have been horrendously wrong. And as I mentioned there before the break, with tragic results, with Governor Cuomo and several other governors basically sacrificing seniors in large numbers because they thought they needed the hospital beds for this big influx of non-seniors that never came. And we have steeply higher in my judgment, nursing home COVID deaths in the states that did that— New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Massachusetts— than we otherwise would. And that's why the overall COVID deaths in those places are some of the highest in the world.
Have you studied Sweden?
I have looked at Sweden, and they did have a nursing home problem very early on there. It was a little bit different than the one in those states here. It was, it was more related to staffing issues, and they have a lot of low-paid staff that basically walked off the job early in the epidemic. But other than early problems in the nursing homes, they have very little COVID deaths compared to other countries in Europe. And I think the low stringency approach has generally been vindicated. And of course, they've got much less economic damage and much less sort of social, emotional, and societal damage because of the approach.
That's right. And kids stayed in school the whole time. Kids, kids. What's your take on mask wearing?
I think there is very little evidence that there's any benefit from it. And, you know, if it were— you know, it's interesting because you look at sort of the CDC studies that they've put out, and they claim, they claim a very small benefit. And yet it gets sort of distorted through this media lens and into sort of peer pressure to be this sort of, you know, massive high-impact thing that can stop the virus cold. And there If that were true, we would not have had anywhere near the results that we've had in places with very, very high mask compliance, and the virus just continues to spread anyway. So I think that there may be a very, very slight benefit, but it's not— you know, there's a— you look at sort of the literature review from the World Health Organization, for instance, which has done a much better job than our own CDC, which says a lot because the World Health Organization is not particularly competent itself, but they've generally done a much better job than our CDC, and they basically conclude that there's a— they have a low confidence in a small effect from masks. I tend to think that it's essentially no effect because it's a highly infectious virus that's spread by aerosol transmission. Do you wear one outdoors? Outdoors? There's very little transmission outdoors because you can't have high concentrations of the virus. Right. The aerosols get dissipated very quickly.
So do you wear one outdoors?
I follow the local rule and custom such that I won't get ticketed and so forth. So, but I don't really wear it outdoors because if you read the mayor's mask order here where I live, it says wear it outdoors if you are likely to be within 6 feet of someone for more than a fleeting time. So I just make sure my time interacting with people stays fleeting and I do not wear it.
Well, you're a better citizen than I. I refuse to wear a mask outdoors and I'm looking forward to being arrested. I announced that a year ago. I did.
The outdoors is very strange, as is the masking of children, which—
oh, that's beyond belief. That is beyond belief. I'll tell you, I have to put up as one of the 10, aside from horrible pictures of murder, the most— one of the 10 most depressing photos I've ever seen was of the President of the United States and the Vice President of the United States Is it correct both had COVID? Or I know the president— they're both fully vaccinated. I'm sorry, yes, both vaccinated and both wearing masks.
It's bizarre. You know, they say we're doing it to model for people, but what are you modeling for them? You're modeling stupidity.
They're modeling fear and irrationality.
Yeah, it's, uh, it's very strange. You know, I'm hoping that when we get to the end of his 100-day mask challenge, he'll declare victory and move on rather than try to extend it.
Well, hope. I can't— I never speak out against hope. As I heard once in a great line, there's always hope, there's no chance. That's— but that's a separate story. So how do people read your stuff?
Well, I do a, uh, I do a free daily newsletter, uh, with Steve Moore and John Fund at committee.
Oh wow. That's a high-powered team, the three of you. Where do you do that? Wait, wait, wait, where do you do that?
People like it, it's pretty good. It's committeetounleashprosperity.com. And you can sign up for that, it's free. We send it every day, sort of in the lunch hour, basically. And it's not just COVID, we also cover kind of tax and spending and energy and other sorts of things. But it's kind of started out, we started it about a year ago now. It started out being all COVID and it still has a pretty good amount of that mixed in.
Yup. Well, thank you so much. I hope you get a lot of my listeners to read your stuff.
That would be terrific, and thanks for having me.
You're welcome. Did you see that photo, my dear, dear listener? Two people vaccinated against COVID wearing a mask. To be models. But why are they not modeling pure non-scientific irrationality?
