In this interview, host Carl Jackson talks with Christopher Hart, author of The American Adversaries, about the core concepts of his book that explain how modern American politics is staged like a wrestling show. Hart defines the “hook” as the emotional good‑versus‑evil grab that Democrats use to vilify opponents—exemplified by Donald Trump’s mean‑tweet strategy and the recent campaign to paint Elon Musk as a villain. He then explains the “angle,” the scripted narrative or storyline the media constructs (e.g., claims about Musk at the Pentagon) to reinforce the hook. Hart calls the media the “barkers,” the promoters who pull audiences into the drama. The conversation shows how Trump has co‑opted the Democratic hook, turning the vilification back on them, and how perseverance by figures like Trump and Musk can ultimately defeat the narrative. References to George Orwell’s quote, biblical persecution themes, and wrestling analogies illustrate the moral framing of truth‑tellers versus the fabricated villains. The interview ends with a warning that the constant conflict between good and evil drives policy, and that recognizing these tactics is crucial for the public.
Chapters
So, so Chris, let's, let's, let's get right to, uh, the book. I want to have you explain, uh, some of these issues. In the first chapter, you talk about the hook. What is the hook, Chris?
That's the emotional grab, and it's once again based on good versus evil, good guys versus bad guys. This is why Donald Trump does the mean tweets and calls his opponents names, because that's what they do. That's how they win elections. They turn Republicans into villains. Look what they're doing to Elon Musk right now. He was their hero. You know, he made EV cars. He was a billionaire. He made it himself. And now he's an evil villain because he has sided with Donald Trump. And of course, everything that they've done over the last 9 years is to vilify Donald Trump. But he has turned the message on them. And he has made himself not necessarily the good guy, but not as bad as they are. Because he has made them the bad guy. And take for instance Chuck Schumer yesterday. He was on one of the talking head shows, and he's trying to reclaim his position atop the Democrat Party, and he was calling Donald Trump, you know, evil. He's a crook. He's this, he's that. Democracy is at stake again. And all of this is simply to leapfrog Donald Trump and make himself the good guy in that battle again. Because they know that if enough people believe that Donald Trump is a bad man, an evil man, they will oppose him and his policies. But once again, Donald Trump is able to flip that on the Democrats. And by the way, many of your listeners may not know that Donald Trump is a member of the WWE Hall of Fame. He instinctively knows what I'm talking about. He instinctively knows that politics, you can reduce it to good versus evil arguments. And the Democrats have known that for decades. That's how they spank Republicans. Republicans come in, I've got great ideas, I've got great policies, and the Democrats are going over there going, that guy's evil, he's bad, he beats his wife, he starves his kids, he wants to run grandma off the cliff. You remember that?
Yeah. Or he wants to, you know, he keeps his dog on top of his—
Correct. Yes, exactly. It works. Yeah, it works. And this is why Democrat has I'm sorry, this is why Donald Trump has co-opted the Democrat technique. He is beating them at their own game and they can't stand it and they don't know what to do about it because no Republican has ever done it, at least not nearly as effectively as Donald Trump.
Okay, so Chris, let me ask you this. I gave some absolutely, I mean, just brilliant analysis a short while ago.
You always do, says Carl Jackson.
All right, but anyway, I really do believe that this going after Elon Musk it's going to backfire on Democrats. And I think you're right. Democrats are doing what they always do. They're painting Elon Musk as the bad guy. But the more people understand, wait a minute, the guy that's exposing the fraud is the bad guy. And I'm starting to see more conservatives online. And I think this helps on social media, standing up for Elon Musk, thanking him for doing what he's doing. So I know he's going through a rough time now, but I suspect Things are going to change. What say you?
I think you're right. I think Donald Trump is the example that as long as he can take their abuse and smile and keep coming back and fighting them, he will come out the victor at the end. And this is what Donald Trump has done. He never went away. He never backed down. He took all of the abuse, being indicted, going to court, being threatened with jail. He took it all. And even people who didn't like him came to respect him because he just kept fighting. This is the American tradition. We don't back down. We don't give up.
Yeah. And they just went too far. They literally went too far. They went to a place where even Democrats— and I'll get into this, the 4 ways and how to destroy the Democrat Party. I went over one of them, but I'll go over it a little more in depth after this interview with Christopher Hart of the American Adversaries. But they simply went too far. All right, Chris, Let's tackle another issue in your book, the angle. What is the angle?
That is commonly referred to as the narrative. These are the scripted storylines that the media is feeding us all of the time. For instance, the New York Times last week, Elon Musk was at the Pentagon, they're planning a war against China. That is an angle, that is a narrative, that is a scripted storyline. Oftentimes they're based on quote unquote anonymous sources. These are concocted stories. They maybe have a grain of truth in them, but for the most part, they're lies. Those are angles. In professional wrestling, the angles are the feuds between wrestlers, the storyline. This is why you should like this wrestler and not that wrestler. And the storylines are delivered by the media. They concoct them and they deliver them. And once again, it's all with the goal of making someone the bad guy and someone the good guy. That's what— that's the drama. That's the hook. That's what makes it all work.
Chris, there's a quote in your book in the prologue from George Orwell: "The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it." Frankly, that's actually— that quote is actually— there's two verses in the Bible that comes to mind, and now they've escaped me. Uh, but Jesus talks about persecution of the people that follow him, basically. And this quote reminds me of that. But I think that's such a relevant quote. I'm glad you placed it in, uh, in your book, because I also think it's important for people to understand, especially those of us on the right, even if you're a voice crying in the wilderness, it does not mean that you're wrong. And you have to persevere. I think that's what we saw, frankly, in Donald Trump's campaign.
I think you're absolutely right. He persevered. He never gave up. And as long as Elon Musk does the same thing, he will come out victorious in the end as well. They are hating on Elon Musk because the media is making him the bad guy. He's the guy that's going to take away your Social Security. He's the guy that's going to take away your Medicaid and Medicare. He's the guy that's not feeding poor, hungry children overseas or something. This is all to vilify him. But if he perseveres, he will come out ahead in the end. But he's going to be hated along the way. And by the way, I got that quote that was given to me by Roger Franklin Williams, one of our other colleagues.
Great.
And, and it's so appropriate because that's exactly what we're seeing now. And this is why Teslas are getting keyed and dealerships are getting torched. And the like. People are acting on their hate based on the fact that Elon Musk is exposing things that they didn't want exposed.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's absolutely amazing. Who are, who are the barkers? 2 minutes left in this block.
The barkers are the media. They're the ones who call you in and say, hey, come watch, look at this story, right? It's like, uh, you know, 2 kids killed in a car crash, live at 5. Or Donald Trump has done this or that, you know, story at 7. The barkers are the people that pull you in and then give you the scripted storylines that basically the media plays the role of the barkers.
I want to, I want to reiterate a point going back to chapter 1 in your book, The Hook. One line that I love, I think it's just so important. The force that drives policy and politics is the constant conflict between good and evil. I don't— I almost don't think you can you can mention this point enough, Chris, because I do believe that if people understand, oh, I see what they're doing, they're trying to pit this guy as the bad guy. This is so crucial because again, all we have to do is look at Elon Musk. This guy is volunteering his time to save the country and
