Resolving Couple Conflicts with Alison Armstrong

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On today's episode of Timeless Wisdom, it has been a major, major honor and delight to have the most regular guest in Prager Show history, Alison Armstrong.

Hi.

In fact, Alison was in high school when we first met It sort of feels that way.

That's coming up on Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager.

Rising interest rates, stock volatility, out-of-control inflation. People are concerned about what the future holds financially. This is Dennis Prager for AmFed Coin and Bullion. There's no better time than the present to move a portion of your IRA into precious metals. You should know there's a right and a wrong way to set up your precious metals IRA. Mistakes could cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars in IRS fines. Call AmFed Coin and Bullion, 800- 800-221-7694, americanfederal.com.

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Welcome to Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Hear thousands of hours of Dennis's lectures, courses, and classic radio programs. And to purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles, go to dennisprager.com.

Hi everybody, welcome to the male-female hour on the Dennis Prager Show. Every Wednesday, the second hour. I think it's the most honest talk about men and women in the media. And as I always remind people, one of the reasons is I am happy and prepared to talk about just about anything, and because I am neither a male fan nor a female fan. The number of wonderful men and wonderful women is about equal, and the number of bad seeds in both sexes are also about equal. They each have to fight their natures, etc., etc. For so many years now— she will remember the number of years, I don't— uh, it has been, uh, it has been It has been a major, major honor and delight to have the most regular guest in Prager Show history, Alison Armstrong.

Hi.

In fact, Alison was in high school when we first met. It sort of feels that way.

It kind of, it kind of does. We, um, this is, this is our 20th year.

Is that right?

January of 2004 is when I was first on with you.

So in a nutshell, let me just say about Allison Armstrong, her story is very powerful. She wanted to understand men. The number of women who want to understand men is equal to the number— I'm trying to think of a truly absurd analogy— to the number of submarines that also fly. That, that's a little overstating it. I know, but by the— you know, we actually— we— I'm going to explore, as always, what you want to talk about. You have, you have free rein on my show. We— Allison comes on every season, so 4 times a year. But it's, it's that— I'd like to do that with you once. How many women really want to understand men? And vice versa, how many men want to understand women? But I, I I think that it's not completely symmetric because I think it's tougher for women to understand men than it is for men to understand women. Not because men are brighter, but because we are more foreign to women than women are foreign to us. But anyway, okay, you have a topic in mind and take it away, Alison Armstrong.

Oh, well, thank you for having me here. I'm really excited, and I apologize, it was on me, I missed the first season ever in as long as we've been doing seasons. So I'm sorry, people are like, where's the winter season? That was me and about 400 inches of snow.

Wow.

Yeah, I'm still getting used to living here in Steamboat Springs, and we had one of the— it's like second in you know, the last 30 years, record snow. I was buried. But I'm glad to be here. And what I want to talk about is conflict. And people have asked me about fighting and arguments, and so I'm just calling it conflict. And there's a certain kind of conflict that is most likely to have a fighting thing going on with it. And so it's one of the kinds I want to talk about. And there's ones that we need to resolve early and well, or deep trouble for decades. And then there's things that we could— it'd be good if we honored or let go, one or the other, not just let it—

So, all right, so let me summarize where we're at. There are 3 types of conflicts you're saying?

Well, at least that I want to talk about.

Yeah, right. Okay. So one is the one that takes place but can be, you know, gotten rid of, so to speak. The one that is deep-seated and needs to be confronted. And what was the third one again?

It's the one that causes fighting and it needs to be transformed, actually.

Wait, so how does that differ from 1 or 2? Numbers 1 or 2?

Okay, so look, look at it this way. Values, and we'll talk about that. Values is the big one you got to confront early because it doesn't go away. That's a good one. The second one is expectations. Which if they're not transformed, you will have the nastiest, you should have, you should have kind of fights. And the third is preferences. Just what it's like to having things the way we like it to be. So honor them or let go of them. Those would be the three.

Okay, take it away.

Oh, wow. Well, which one do you want me to start with?

Your choice.

Okay, well, let's start with preferences because that's the— it's the lightest one, but it also can create such amazing moments. So the definition of like is to prefer. So our preferences are the ways that we like it, right? It's the kind of ice cream we like. It's how tidy our homes are. It's how we season our food. And is it hot, hot, or just off hot, or who cares what temperature it is, right? There's these things that just are preferences, but when push comes to shove, you live with what you have to live with. And when someone has a strong preference, if we can honor it without sacrificing ourselves, then it just creates a kind of sweetness. It just, it just can be really, really sweet If it's appreciated. People who take their preferences being catered to for granted, it doesn't create sweetness. It can create resentment.

So let me, so let me give you— I love this because I love systematic thought, which you're great at. So I just, in a nutshell, I have said this on a number of occasions. My take on preferences with my wife is I— let's say the, the classic one, or a classic, which restaurant to have dinner at. My, so my view on that, or in fact just about anything, leaving values aside obviously, is the one who is more passionate about it should win.

Yeah, that's pretty much— we're saying the same thing.

I thought we might be.

And not win at the other person's self-sacrifice, because I am—

yeah, no, no, exactly. Look, if she wants Restaurant X and I want Restaurant Y, I will go to Restaurant X because it matters more to her. I'm okay with X.

Yes. And one of the things that women don't understand, a lot of them think are like, they have said, "Why do I always have to pick the restaurant?" And I said, "Well, because he wants you to be happy. So he wants you to pick the restaurant that you'll be happy at." And then as women, we talk about, "But we can't be happy if you're not happy. So when we pick a restaurant, it's from the list of restaurants that are acceptable to you." By the way, I just want to say, this is what drives men crazy.

So the guy— this is awesome, this is really a great moment. So she is annoyed that he is saying, you know what, let's go to the one you want, right? Right. So, so he's thinking, wait a minute, why isn't that nice of me? Why isn't that even chivalrous?

I can tell you why. Because she can't actually enjoy even her favorite restaurant if the man she's with seems at all irritated. Like my husband, which it's almost been 4 years, Dennis, since Greg died, which is crazy.

I know, I know, I know.

But Greg had such strong opinions about how fast you get seated, how fast you get served. Like, I mean, he had such intensity about restaurants that I couldn't go to my favorite places. I would go there without him because he didn't like one of those things so much that I couldn't enjoy being there.

'Cause you knew how he felt.

Not just knew it, I can feel it.

Right.

We can feel the agitation in each other's, I mean, shoot, HeartMath says we can hear people's thoughts.

So you know what? So here's another Prager rule. Yeah, minimize the number of things that agitate you.

Oh yes, please. Exactly.

It takes a lot to agitate me.

Yay!

I know.

I—

all right, we'll be back in a moment. This is, this is more fun than almost anything in life. Maybe a roller coaster is better, but not much. Alison Armstrong, and I'll tell you, uh, I'm— how to get in touch with her.

This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

Rising interest rates, stock volatility, out-of-control inflation. People are concerned about what the future holds financially. This is Dennis Prager for AmFed Coin and Bullion. There's no better time than the present to move a portion of your IRA into precious metals. You should know there's a right and a wrong way to set up your precious metals IRA. Mistakes This could cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars in IRS fines. Call AmFed Coin and Bullion, 800-221-7694, AmericanFederal.com.

That's AmericanFederal.com.

Now back to more of Dennis Prager's timeless wisdom.

There you are, there you are.

Hey, my dear friends. I am with the inimitable but not inscrutable. That is important. Alison Armstrong, with whom, as you can tell, I have what is known as chemistry. It's a very— and right, isn't that fair to say? We have, we have chemistry.

I would say we have resonance as opposed to chemistry, or in addition Well, chemistry literally is chemical. It's, it's a cocktail of testosterone and epinephrine. I would say resonance, it's a spiritual connection. Fair enough. It's a recognition. It's a— and it's even an amplification. I'm amplifying.

Well, I'll put it in really vernacular terms because you will like this. I think you will like this. I shouldn't say you will. I think you will. So we enjoy each other.

Yes, that's the word I was thinking.

Yes. So you— this is what you, you will like, I think. I, when I meet young couples, I don't ask them, do you love each other? It's a useless question. I ask them, do you enjoy each other?

Oh, very good. Yes. Yeah, and do you like each other?

Like? Oh, like. I have— I'm writing a piece, my 3 favorite verbs, and like is one of them.

Yes, I like you, and what I like about you is important. And there's 3: respect, admiration, and affinity. Liking. Those 3: respect, admiration, and like. Love is so easy.

That's right. And the best example in that, in my opinion, is a lot of parents— almost every parent loves their child, but a lot of parents don't like their child.

Yeah, and the child knows it, and they just want to be adored by their mom and dad.

Oh yeah, well, you're thinking of little kids. I'm thinking of grown children.

I would say that it's the same.

Oh, it is? Yeah. Well, a lot of kids— a lot of people— I, I support the parents. I thank God it's not my situation. I like and love my sons, but, but I, I'm telling you, it's a tough— anyway, let's go back to your great theme here. So, so we're talking about 3 types of conflicts that could arise. One, the first one is over preferences. Yeah, okay. So do you want to move on or do you want to continue on preferences?

Okay, I'm going to be doing like a 2-hour version of this in a couple of weeks. So, but I want to get people started. Okay. And so the other one, let's talk about expectations because that's, it's wicked. So you can tell something is an expectation because the word should will be involved. There's a sense of entitlement. Like I've already done everything I should have had to do in order to get this from you, and it should already happen. I've already earned it. What the heck? Everybody knows this. It's obvious. So there's a lot of intensity about it. There's often anywhere from disappointment to fury at expectations not being met. And they're usually not communicated ahead of time. You find out someone had an expectation when you fail to meet it, or when you exceed it and they gush. And one of the worst things about expectations is that they're compound. So not only do I have expectations of you, but I actually have expectations of you that I think you're expecting of me, and I'm trying to live up to your expectations without even finding out what they are. And then the other thing is they're like bunny rabbits. Expectations breed more expectations, whether it's met or betrayed. Yeah, whether it's met or betrayed, it'll create—

That's fascinating.

Yeah, like one expectation, one thing that happens with women is if you, if we're disappointed, you failed to meet my expectation, We think if I make sure you know how terribly upset I am about it, then you will double down and work extra hard to meet that expectation. And a woman thinks a man will do that because that's what a woman will do. Because we don't want you to be upset when we don't meet your expectations. There's a lot of fear in it. But men only work harder to not upset someone that they feel dependent upon. If they don't feel dependent upon that person, the person being upset is like, eh, how annoying. No, I'm not going to work harder. And why would I spend more energy on something that I didn't get any points for even trying? So, but they're the things that people, if people are—

So what is your recommendation, that people minimize their expectations of the other?

Well, what we do, we have to examine them. So the first thing is we have to notice we have a should going on.

Right.

And then check it out. Is this something that I expect that I actually really truly need, like there's a huge benefit to me getting it and a huge cost to not getting it? Because that changes entirely. And it's actually the fourth thing that I wasn't planning on talking about. So conflicts over needs. And so examine it. Is it a need or not? If it's not a need and you have this expectation, then what can be amazing, you can transform it by talking to the person about it, find out if they're willing to provide what it is that you wish they would. And is there anything they need from you for them to be willing to provide it? And is there anything even that they would need? Would they willing— be willing to be count— Honnible for it. So if you transform an expectation into an accountability, account on ability, I'm willing to be held to account for that. It can be amazing. Like these are the—

All right. Can you give an example?

Yes, I can. So I'm highly scheduled when I'm working. And I'm very punctual, right? I was trained by the radio show at KRLA. I can do anything in 30 seconds. And when Dan and I were long distance seeing each other, he was really punctual. And then when I moved to Steamboat, he stopped being punctual. And my interpretation of it was, oh, now that I live in your city, you're just going to take me for granted.

Okay. Okay. That's good. We'll be back in a moment. AllisonArmstrong.com, correct? One L and one S. Alison Armstrong.

This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

Rising interest rates, stock volatility, out-of-control inflation. People are concerned about what the future holds financially. This is Dennis Prager for AmFed Coin and Bullion. There's no better time than the present to move a portion of your IRA into precious metals. You should know there's a right and a wrong way to set up your precious metals IRA. Mistakes could cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars in IRS fines, call AmFed Coin and Bullion, 800-221-7694, AmericanFederal.com.

That's AmericanFederal.com.

Now back to more of Dennis Prager's timeless wisdom.

Hi everybody, I'm Dennis Prager. With the terrific Allison Armstrong. And Allison Armstrong is contactable at allisonarmstrong.com, one L, one S, talking about the sources of conflict between men and women. And we went from preferences to expectations.

Yes, and I was in the middle of giving you an example, right? And Okay, about Dan and being punctual. And one of the things that's important is that one of the ways that expectations can get created is by behavior. So we never talked about being on time. He just was punctual. So I developed this expectation that he could be count on for being punctual. And then when he changed, right, I took it very personally. And of course it was because of how he felt about me, which is what women always think.

Uh-huh, uh-huh, right.

You can just say, "It's how you feel about me, all your behavior will follow." And what was so funny, Dennis, was when I finally talked to him about it, because both men and women will avoid conflict. One, because men have an innate sense of how it can escalate very badly, and women because we're afraid of being displeasing or ruin a moment and a precious connection. And when I finally talked to him about it, he introduced "ish." So, "3-ish." And okay, I can do that.

He introduced "ish." Oh, that's a riot.

Ish! Yes!

Yes.

And then, but then what was so funny is I poked around some more and I figured out my, if I tell you I'll be there 3-ish, at 3:08 I will apologize for being late. For him, this shocked me, his ish is within 30 minutes after or before.

30 minutes before, right?

Do not show up for a woman early.

Oh my God, that's right. Well, I don't think you should show up early for anybody, actually. Yeah, no, no, that, that's wrong. Yeah, you should. I, I'm with you. I— you should show up Basically on the time you said you'd come. I—

it's—

or, or call. Yes. Yeah. If you call, you're showing respect for the fact that, you know, you've taken their time. Being late is a form of theft because you're stealing a person's time.

Well, I learned to not be late because of all the things that makes another human being think and wonder and worry about. Am I in the right place? Did I get the time wrong? Were they in a car accident? Right. So I just come on time so that doesn't have to happen in their head. Okay, so those are—

you know what you need to, you know what you need to do among your many, many things? Okay, I would sort of like to take this, uh, on, on my own as well. What— since I believe deeply in minimizing expectations, I have a chapter on not having expectations in my happiness book. Yes, but I think that one should, uh, make a list of expectations that they have of their spouse or their partner. Not even to give to the other necessarily, just for themselves. And if it's a very long list Long is obviously subjective. I understand that, but it should be a short list. My immediate reaction or thought on that is there's one overriding expectation I think is legitimate to not be taken for granted. That, in my opinion, that kills relationships even more. And, and I'm certainly anti-infidelity, but I think even more than an infidelity, taking your spouse for granted is the killer.

Yeah, I wish it was the only one, but there's so many, so many killers. There's so many killers, and then we're wondering, we think we're bad at relationships instead of— no, human instincts doom relationships.

That's, that's the reason we resonate to one another. Yeah, that's right. I met the enemy and it is my nature. AllisonArmstrong.com, one L and one S. Hi everybody, I'm Dennis Prager. This is the Male-Female Hour, second hour every Wednesday. And my guest every season, for it is 4 times a year, in case you didn't know there were 4 seasons, uh, is Allison Armstrong at allisonarmstrong.com, one L, one S, on the sources of conflicts of which there are many in relationships. So we talked about preferences, and then we're talking about expectations. So I— before we move on, because time flies when I'm with you, uh, I just want to ask you, do you agree with me— and you know it's fine if you don't— that the smaller the list of expectations, the better?

Well, yeah, that's why all about either transform them into agreements or let them go. And I use the Sedona Method to let things go. And like, literally just, it's gone. I don't care anymore. And which is something that men are really good at. They're so much better at not being willing to care about certain things. Whereas women, we tend to care about everything and we don't even realize how much it's compelling us to do things way more than our bodies can handle. Um, so yeah, I would agree. Minimize expectations, question them.

And then what did you think of the one that I think people should have? Don't take me for granted.

Don't take me for granted. I think that that should be a requirement.

Well, okay, so that's a requirement and an expectation.

Yeah, even bigger. Human beings, human beings need appreciation to thrive, right? We fade away without it. Most things stop being worth doing. And I tell women all the time, whatever you appreciate, a man will keep doing. If he used to do something and he doesn't anymore, you didn't appreciate it, or you may have thought you were, but it wasn't in his currency.

That's brilliant.

You get filled up.

Yeah, that's what— that's how I began before you came on. You, you made a decision to understand men, and it's, it's a— you understand men better than many men understand men, which is most of them actually.

They're shocked what they learn from me.

That's a great way of putting it. Yes, that is really funny. All right, another next source, preferences, expectations, next.

Yeah, and then the big one, values. And values is such a strong word for men. You guys relate to it very well. One of the things that we need to look for, and then there's a, uh-oh. One way to see someone's real values is whether they spend significant amounts of time and energy and money on, even when those things are tight. They still do it. That's going to be a reflection of their values and what's really, really, really, really, really, really, really important and tied to their sense of self. And one of the things that I've seen is that, like, in a dating situation, a man will assume that what a woman has, she values. But it's a little dangerous because that's what she spent time and money and energy on in the past. It may not be a reflection of her current values. And many men, like, if they can't afford her car, like they couldn't buy her another one, they figure they couldn't afford her. If they couldn't afford all the travel she's already done to do again in the future, they can't afford her. So it's really important to question what time and money and energy was spent on in the past that isn't what someone's spending it on now or plans to in the future. This is why I always encourage single people, quit trying to connect over the the past. It's safe, but it should be the least significant thing if you're going to have a relationship together. You should be connecting over the present and the future. So values, I encourage people— I mean, I mostly don't coach couples because they didn't set it up right in the first place. They got married thinking the other person's values were going to change. Change, or that the other person's values would never change. And it causes so many problems. So it's— the vetting needs to start early and keep going on. Is this still important to you? Is this still who you are? Is this still what you care the most about? So important to do because it—

so when you said values originally, I was thinking moral, political, social, religious, etc. You, you mean life values? Like, what do I consider important for my life, whether it's travel or, or, or a house?

It's like, for people who travel, it's finding out what is the point of them traveling. Some people travel because they have a value of learning or discovering or connecting with people around the world, right? If they have What the behavior is, travel. I'm so glad you asked. So that there's the behavior. Well, then what's the behavior an expression of? And like your morals, for example, as you would speak of it, they're an expression of who you are at your very core. And one of the things women don't know about men is that as a man gets older, his sense of success, it has to do with that his internal values are now expressed in all the external parts of his life. That his romantic relationship reflects it, his community reflects it, his work reflects it, his family reflects it. That is what gives a man ultimately his sense of a successful life, that who he is has been manifested. And when women don't pay enough attention to who is this man, and that, that's what he's going to keep striving for, and if she's an obstacle to that, or she denigrates it. Oh geez, I mean, the disconnect is massive.

Yep. Wow. You know, when I speak to you about issues like this, it's amazing that any couples really do work out.

Oh yeah, I don't think they should take it personally.

All right, once again, allisonarmstrong.com. One L, one S in Allison. Final segment coming up on the Male-Female Hour of the Dennis Prager Show.

This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

Rising interest rates, stock volatility, out-of-control inflation— people are concerned about what the future holds financially. This is Dennis Prager for AmFed Coin and Bullion. There's no better time than the present to move a portion of your IRA into precious metals. You should know there's a right and a wrong way to set up your precious metals IRA. Mistakes could cost you hundreds of thousands of $1,000 in IRS fines, call AmFed Coin and Bullion, 800-221-7694, AmericanFederal.com.

That's AmericanFederal.com.

Now back to more of Dennis Prager's timeless wisdom.

All right, everybody, final segment with Allison Armstrong on this Male-Female Hour. She's on 4 times a year. So we have 3 sources of conflict in relationships that she has analyzed: preferences and expectations and values. Was there a 4th?

Oh yeah, there's more. The biggest category being what do we actually need to be the kind of human beings that we want to be.

So need is different from expectation.

Absolutely. There are things we expect we don't need and things we need we don't expect and things we need and we don't.

Oh, so what we really need, not what we just think we need.

Really need. Yeah.

This is why I love Alison. That is such a great— what a distinction. What do I really need versus what do I think I need?

Yeah, can I say more?

Oh, please.

I want to say about the values thing, which also applies to me, so it'll work. So if you want to test to see if this is something you really need, which in the dictionary need means an urgent requirement of something, and so it's, it's not in a vacuum, it's require in order to. So I pay attention to what do I require in order to be the human being I'm committed to being. So for example, patient. As a mom, that was my highest value, was to be patient for my children. And so I paid attention to how did I get it? And mostly I got patience through sleep and alone time. So that meant in order to be patient for my children, that's what was at stake. Because when I didn't get that, I was not patient, right? So I needed it in order to be the mom I was committed to being. And so I had boundaries around sleep and around alone time. And I had deals with Greg to support me in getting enough sleep and support me in getting enough alone time. So, and that word enough is what's important here with needs and with values. What is enough? Right? What is it? That's right. Yeah, Dan and I share about adventure, adventure and exploration. Well, what's enough of that? We share a value of family. What's enough of that? We share a value of service and contribution. What's enough of that? We have a value of support.

What's enough of that? Let's do, let's do, let's do a session of the Male-Female Hour on the difference between what we need and think we need.

Oh, it's so important.

Yes, you're terrific. This was special. AllisonArmstrong.com. I send you my love. Thank you as always.

So good to see you.

Tomorrow on Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager.

Okay, basically I'm, you know, I'm the single mom type person right now, and I work a very good job. I'm— I love my job. I do x-rays for a living. I do them on the road. I love them. I love my two children. They're 4 and 5. But I often find that going to work is not only a relief, but I take so much happiness from it. And I've heard so many people say, oh, I can't wait to be a stay-at-home mom, and oh, it's great being a stay-at-home mom. And I feel guilty because I don't want to do it. I want to work.

Join us tomorrow to hear more on Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Are you enjoying Timeless Wisdom? We'd love to hear from you. Call 877-243-7776 and leave a review. Share your thoughts. Comments, or just even an encouraging word for Dennis. Your voicemail might just make it on the show. That's 877-243-7776. That's 877-243-7776. Thanks for listening and for your support. This has been Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Visit DennisPrager.com for thousands of hours of Dennis's lectures, courses, and classic radio programs, and to purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles. We want to take just a second to thank the team at Life Audio for their partnership with us on the podcast. Go to lifeaudio.com to find dozens of other faith-centered podcasts in their network, including shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and more.

Rising interest rates, stock volatility, out-of-control inflation— people are concerned about what the future holds financially. This is Dennis Prager for AMFED Fed Coin and Bullion. There's no better time than the present to move a portion of your IRA into precious metals. You should know there's a right and a wrong way to set up your precious metals IRA. Mistakes could cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars in IRS fines. Call AM Fed Coin and Bullion, 800-221-7694, americanfederal.com.

That's americanfederal.com.