Sunday Fireside Chat - Dennis Talks With Charlie Kirk

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Hi everybody, I'm Dennis Prager and this is my home. As you probably know by now, unless this is your first time watching, this is completely unscripted. It's called my fireside chat. Very, very rarely I have a guest. So if I have a guest, it's pretty, pretty special. And he is pretty special. Charlie Kirk, who is known to many of you, but not to all of you, but you will know him as a result of today, is my guest. Charlie, it is a joy, a privilege, and all the good things like honor to have you.

Well, it's an honor to be here, Dennis. I listen to you almost daily and have for years.

Thank you.

Had a big impact on my life.

That means a lot to me, actually. Let me, let me tell you, let me give my way of introducing Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk founded Turning Point USA. Turning Point USA is enormous. It is actually one of the handful of reasons for optimism about America. I'm known for not engaging in hyperbole, so you'll have to take me for my word. He has out of nothing created this thing called Turning Point USA, TPUSA. Thousands and thousands— we'll find out the specific numbers in a moment— of young people. It's a college, correct? It doesn't start in high school. Oh, you do? So like Prager Force, you also—

yeah.

So they organize events. He organizes events For example, I just spoke in Florida for his group to 4,000 people. 3,000 of them were college and high school students. And it's, it's very moving because we're worried about the next generation of Americans. Look, the truth is you should be worried about my generation of Americans. So this is not new, worrying about the young generation. I was worried about my generation when I was 20 years old. That's another story. I had to talk about that one time. Anyway, so he is combating this terrible nihilism, this destructive force that is permeating our society, not of liberalism, which we could all live with, but of leftism, which is truly nihilistic. And these kids, you know what I love, which verifies what I believe in? This is, when I go to your conferences, I meet a lot of these kids, obviously not all 3,000, but I meet so many of them and they radiate good cheer. They're simply happy kids.

Yes.

I would love for an honest— this is asking a lot— an honest Washington Post, New York Times reporter to go to a left-wing conference of thousands of kids and a conservative conference of thousands of kids and just compare the happiness.

Well, so I think I know why that is, and it's perfectly consistent with what you talk about. Our students are thankful to live in America. When you come from a position of gratitude, it's great, you're happier. The left is angry they live in America. They're unthankful, they're unsettled. And so you're right, they're of good cheer because they wake up and they say, my existence in this country is a blessing.

Well, that's— I think you hit it on the nose. Anyway, look, there are other issues. Like, I believe happy people don't gravitate to the left.

No.

So it— and then it feeds on it. You're unhappy. And the reason you're unhappy is because of sexism and homophobia and transphobia and xenophobia, etc. Whereas you're right, our side, oh, am I lucky to be here.

Yes, and that comes from typically a belief that God is sovereign, that there's a sovereign God, that you must have some form of a fear of God, that he is almighty, omniscient, omnipotent, all-powerful, and that thank goodness I'm even able to live another day.

Right.

And then from there, the other—

but I want to say, I'll bet I don't believe all those 3,000 are religious kids.

No, but not necessarily religious. I'd find very few that are atheist.

Oh, that's a good point. That's fair. That— I agree with that. But I don't want people to think that TPUSA is like a church.

No, no, not, not at all.

No, I just want— I'm on your behalf. I want to make it clear, not that there would be anything wrong with it.

Sure.

But you, you get a very varied group of people.

Oh, totally.

Yes.

And we had many Orthodox Jews there and Evangelical Christians and people that are more secular.

Different colors and everything. So I want people to know you since they get plenty, you get plenty of philosophy from me every week. So I wanted people to know you because you're simply, you represent to me something that I realize is not explicable but for which I'm very thankful. Every generation seems to produce unique types that just lead. And this is not meant as a compliment, so you don't, you know, you don't have to be embarrassed, but it's true. Look, how old are you?

25.

Okay, 25. When did you start Turning Point?

When I was 18.

18. Okay, so what are most 18-year-olds doing? It's a rhetorical question. They're not founding organizations to celebrate America and, and being wildly successful. You created this from nothing, is that correct?

Relatively, yes. Out of my parents' garage. Yeah, when I was—

Yes, well, everything comes from parents' garages.

No money, no connection, and no idea what I was doing.

Right. And then you made it. Where did it begin?

Well, I first want to say the story that you're asking about, only in America is this possible. And what gives me joy is I get to fight for that which I have benefited from. That's a beautiful way to put it. You could not start Turning Point Italy. Maybe as a branch eventually.

No, no, no, it's true.

There's something so special about this country.

Or France, or Germany. This was not an anti-Italian comment for the sensitive. Yeah, or Indonesia.

We can go to the whole United Nations or the world.

Exactly, the United States.

So look, as far back as I can remember, I've always enjoyed debate and discussion. I've always tried to be a contrarian in my way of thinking. Um, I initially, when I was in kindergarten, first and second grade, my parents put me into what— I hate this term, but it's the term used— a gifted school. And that laid a foundation of rigorous academic, you know, try to be in the pursuit of academic excellence. Then my parents made a decision to put me into Christian Bible-based school when I was in 3rd, 4th, and 5th grade, which was really where I learned a lot about the Bible. By 5th grade, I knew more about the Bible than most self-professed adult Christians would. And then my parents made the decision to put me into public school. In 6th grade. And as soon as I hit 6th grade, this was in the fall of 2005, in the spring of 2006, I was immediately hit with ideology from my 6th grade teachers that was not consistent with the values I was brought up in. Some of it very subtle that I caught up with, some not so subtle, such as this country is not a good place. If you work hard and play by the rules, you don't really— you won't really be successful. The American dream is a lie. Now, most of that will go over the heads of 6th graders. For me, just because for whatever reason I had, I was more in tune with what they were saying. I found myself challenging some of my teachers in 6th grade and 7th grade. And I remember going home and I asked my parents, are we Republicans or are we Democrats? And my parents said, well, we're pretty much Republicans because we believe in God and we work hard. That's how they explain politics to me. And by the way, that's the way a lot of Americans look at politics. It's that simple. And then I always was entrepreneurial and thought of— I wanted to be very successful, and I just couldn't ever find myself believing that bigger government, less freedom would ever allow my own personal ambitions to be fulfilled. And therefore, my own dreams were consistent with political ideology and philosophy. And I grew— I then started to read Milton Friedman and, you know, the great books that were really built Western society, and I became— I loved politics from a very, very young age.

So you went then to a regular high school after that?

Public high school, yes.

So did you, did you have any close friends?

Oh yes, yes.

People— so, but I don't only mean, you know, buddies to hang out with. I'm sure you had, but were there any who agreed with your outlook on life?

Very few, if any.

That's what I would think.

I'll tell you I have— when I think about before I say this— almost none now that I still talk to. In fact, I'm mislabeled and disowned by every quote-unquote friend I had from high school, with a couple exceptions, maybe one or two that will still talk to me. But these people you consider yourself to be very close with in high school, all of a sudden, you know, aren't quite friends. But never did I have much commonality around.

So one day you had an idea, listen, this, this, my, my generation is in trouble. What, what happened? I mean, what sport?

Well, I wanted to West Point. That was my lifelong ambition since I was 12 years old. I always try to do difficult things in my life, and so I remember asking my teacher, what's the hardest school to get into? And they said, well, besides Harvard, it's West Point. So, well, that's interesting. And I always loved the idea of military service and patriotism and just trying to be part of something bigger than yourself. And so then I wanted to go to West Point and became an Eagle Scout, did very well in school, football captain, basketball captain, and got my congressional nomination, but I did not get appointed. It's a two-step process. And at first I was crushed, but it ended up being the best thing that ever happened to me.

And to America.

Well, God had a plan for me, if you will. And it was—

All right, but I want to understand, because I have no idea what the answer is. What did you do on day one? I mean, how do you organize people when you don't have access to people?

It's very— well, so this is— this was starting something from nothing, from zero to one. It teaches a lot about yourself, first and foremost. It teaches you a lot about yourself, of how hard are you willing to push yourself and for how long, and how much grit do you actually have, how much perseverance do you have. So on June 5th, 2012, when I started the organization, I said, well, you know, it's one member turning, and I had the name Turning Point USA. And so I remember being on Facebook and on Twitter hearing and seeing other young conservatives across the country that were discontented with Obama. I said, well, what if I create a Facebook group, which they were kind of new back in 2012. For those people watching these videos, you probably laugh at how many Facebook groups you're now members of, but it was almost a new concept where this essentially, Dennis, it's almost like a blog post page you can have within Facebook where you can network. And I created one called the Young Conservatives and I just added young conservatives from across the country of thousands of students where there could be a forum almost. And that was the basis of Turning Point USA.

And then you went to donors, obviously.

Correct, and I said, look at this enthusiasm. 'Look, there's Marta from Seattle, there's Matthew from Miami. If we only had $600, we could get a website going.' Is that what you started with, $600? That— the first big check we got was for $10,000. 'Cause I went down and I borrowed money to go to the Republican National Convention in August of 2012. And I met a guy named Foster Friese in a stairwell. And I gave him a stairwell pitch, but not an elevator pitch, and he wrote us our first $10,000 check. And from there I was able to have a website, network people together, build a very small team.

By the way, there's a saying, this is a, how does the saying go? Success has innumerable fathers and failure is an orphan.

That's correct.

So you have no idea how many people have said to me, I was the first one to fund Charlie Kirk.

But, you know, someone else gave me a wise piece of advice: never disagree with them.

Oh, totally. I'm saying it with a smile. I certainly have no basis to disagree with them. I go, that's very impressive.

No, meaning me. I should never disagree.

No, I know that. And I'm saying, but I certainly— if there's someone— the 7 people who've said that to me, I said, you know, 6 other people told me that. I don't do that. I'm with you. And anyway, they mean well, and they were one of the There were people who were in the beginning.

That's right.

Yes, there's no question. Obviously they get the credit. So then it began. Now how many— so what is it, one joins Turning Point if one is in college? If you graduate college, you are no longer in Turning Point?

That's not necessarily true. And we're developing an alumni network of extension outside of the high school and campus university infrastructure we've built. But we have chapters on these campuses. We have activism events. I go and speak at over 45 colleges a year, just as part of what I do. And you actually spoke at some of our Turning Point USA groups at Colorado State University and University of Wyoming. Two excellent speeches you gave. And we love the partnership between Prager and Turning Point USA. I just don't compliment other groups, if you follow what I do, because most of them don't deserve it. But Prager University legitimately is helping change and save a country. Well, that's how we feel.

No, no, no. You have a very— was it your line or Alan Estrin's line about about the Air Force and the Army.

I think I said first—

I think it's yours, yes. So tell everybody.

Well, the analogy is if, to use a military analogy, is Prager University is the Air Force and Turning Point USA is the Army or the infantry.

Right. I like that, exactly.

But you need both, and you need the air reconnaissance.

Yes.

And you need the Marines, you know.

That's correct. So now we have to find a Navy.

Sure, yes.

We're lacking a Navy.

And a Coast Guard.

Out of Coast Guard, right? I mean, it could go on forever. Border Patrol, Highway Patrol.

All of it.

Exactly. How many members?

Well, we have hundreds of thousands of members that have— let's just put it this way— that have been recruited on campus. Now, whether all of them are active or not, we go through them.

Well, you're here in LA in part to make a video, two videos for Prager University. In, in your, uh, in the script you noted, unfortunately correctly, whatever our numbers, let's remember how many millions. Yes, we haven't touched.

That's right.

So I'm going to ask you a question, and I'm asked this all the time, and I don't think I ever give the answer people want to hear. I'll explain that in a moment, but I'm more interested in you Are you optimistic for America?

I have to be or else I would be crazy doing what I'm doing. So if I traveled 340 days a year, which I do, and I dedicated my life to this, and I take many red-eye flights, you know, a month, and you know, which red-eyes to me—

That's dedication.

—throw off my body clock. Of course, they're terrible. But if I did all of this and I keep pushing myself, and I was pessimistic about the future, that's a very twisted existence, in my opinion. Right. Because I— and if I was putting my credibility and my vision and my ambition behind all of this. All right.

So other than your psychological desire, which I totally relate to and understand, to be optimistic, give me two reasons to be optimistic.

Sure. Prager University's view count would be one of them. If these ideas had no resonance the Electoral College video would not have had 31 million views in 48 hours or less. If there was no reason to be optimistic, we wouldn't have had 3,000 students in Palm Beach right before Christmas from all 50 states and 6 member countries. It just wouldn't be happening. That stuff is unique. That stuff did not happen in 1996. You know, that stuff did not happen in 2006. This is a new twist. In American political culture. And the second thing for optimism— and Dennis, I can say this from my travels— students are not opposed to our ideas, they're just not exposed to them at all in the first place. Exactly correct. I would be so pessimistic if I came on a college campus— so I went to Stanford, UC Berkeley, and UCLA last spring, and I know you did UCLA and UC Berkeley— I would be pessimistic if they went up to the question line and they had a thoughtful, well-researched response of why I was wrong. Instead, they are curious and flummoxed my ideas exist in the first place. Therefore, they have not— they've never gone through the rational or critical thinking process of what do these ideas actually mean. Therefore, we just have to go to more territory. We just have to bring our message to more universities and more colleges and more young people. And I know that's also the charter mission.

So let me say this to you folks who are watching. The reason that the left uses 6 Herbs sexist, intolerant, xenophobic, homophobic, Islamophobic, racist, bigoted. To label all, not some, all those they differ with is that they don't have arguments. This is critical. I tell people all the time, the reason we win debates is not necessarily because we're better debaters. It's that we know all their arguments and they know none of ours. That's right. We read them, study under them, know them, hear them, watch them, but they don't know anything we stand for. Why read a racist? Why read a bigot? That's right. That's exactly correct. So that's the inoculation against taking us seriously.

Right. And so we say at Turning Point USA, if our ideas were so bad, then the left should allow us to come on campus and nobody would show up. Or just, we would be refuted. That's exactly right.

I suspect you do this, I know I do this, and I'm sure you do this. If you differ with me, come first. Front of the line. Yes, go to the front, to the microphone.

It's policy at every one of my speeches. I want the disagreement. Yes. I pursue it. Yes. And it gives us credibility. It gives us credibility, but this is why I do what I do. I do it because maybe I'll learn something, or maybe they'll learn something, or maybe millions of other people will learn something new. And the collision of ideas is what made Western society. When you have a monolithic train of thought, it deteriorates an individual's ability to think and to process information.

So you mentioned hundreds of thousands of students been in TPUSA. For every one of those, I suspect there are 5 who are afraid to join.

No doubt. Without a doubt. Or are not as aware as they should be.

That certainly. But I—

The fear part is what I want to focus on. Yes. And the left makes it so culturally impermissible to be a conservative. Yes. And being anti-American is more fashionable than being patriotic.

You saw Ami Horowitz wave the American flag at the— was it Berkeley or Stanford? Was it Berkeley? So he— did you ever see this video?

I'm familiar with the one where he went to UC Davis, not the Berkeley one.

Okay, where he waved the American flag for a half hour and he waved the ISIS flag for a half hour and he got all the hate for waving the US flag.

Oh, I mean, look, it— I wish it surprised me, but here's the other piece of optimism, Dennis, is that— you agree with this, and your solution at Prager University is so brilliant because the cancer is being inputted into the next generation in very specific places, colleges, universities. So we know where this is happening. It's not like it would be— I would be pessimistic if it was a mystery. Oh, I wonder where all this stuff is coming from. No, no, no. We know exactly where it's coming from. It's coming at the Gender Studies Department at the University of Texas. Okay, so if you map out a simple map of how you solve problems in business, or in life, or in family, you identify where the cancer is metastasizing, you cut it off, neutralize the problem, and offer solutions and alternatives like you have at PragerU. So I'm optimistic because we know where the problem is.

Well, and as you pointed out, when they hear it, if they have at all an open mind, and many do, they go, wow, that makes sense. To which I always respond, conservatism is common sense. You don't have to believe anything. Just ask what, what is logical? Is it, is it that, is a minimum wage going to suppress employment or increase employment? That's all the issue is. It isn't ideological. It's a common sense, empirically based question. The— this— I'm going to ask you something very sensitive here because I don't have an answer, but I have a suspicion. Otherwise I wouldn't ask this. Do you— you mentioned gender studies. Would you say that the vast majority of the professors and the students are female?

I, I, because I, I'll, I'll answer it in a different way. A mass majority are feminine.

Okay, that was a good one. Uh, well, well, no, I wish that were true because a lot of the females who are in it are not particularly feminine. This is not to insult them.

The answer is I don't have enough data.

Okay, fine, fair enough. So that's why I asked. I don't— I never check the data, but it's so rare that I come across a male professor of gender studies. The reason that I asked it is I think that there are a lot of young women who have who have been made sad. I know the depression rates on college— with college girls is very high, and there's got to be a reason. This was not true in my parents' generation in college. Uh, something has happened. Something certainly happened with males. Everybody knows there's a big male issue, but I think something has happened with females. Yes. Have you ever thought on that? Sure, and I'm gonna—

yes, so the myth of the patriarchy is just that. It's one of the great lies of our time that somehow we live in a patriarchal society where a vast majority of incoming college freshmen are women, almost 56%. Vast majority of college graduates, master's degree recipients, doctorate degree recipients, Women live much longer. Women are far less likely to have heart disease, die of depression, suicide, all these sorts of things. But you are seeing a problem in the college university amongst depression rates amongst young women, and the solution of the feminists and the gender studies professors are, it's because of men this is happening, right? So that, that's their conclusion, which is incorrect. The, the, the, my observation is that some women, not all women, are being forced into very linear— a very linear focus on a career pursuit when that's not what they always want. It's almost as if they're forcing themselves into it.

It just occurred to me now, and I may do a radio show on this, it just occurred to me I would like to see statistics, if they're available, what percentage of depressed women in college have a significant other in their life.

Yes. And I think that's exactly correct. And so the things that built Western society to function and to grow— monogamous relationships, committing yourself to another person, not overdrinking, you know, not participating in binge drinking culture— all those things are frowned upon in college. In fact, the opposite is glorified. Where it's hookup culture, where it is binge drinking, you know, drink till you're drunk, where it's almost unlimited amount— I hate this word— but unlimited amount of freedom but no responsibility. And that, that will only create unhappy people and unproductive people.

That's that, that, look, that, and you and I resonate to this, that and secularism. Without— no, that, that's the number one thing. I, I mean, look, every poll by totally secular organizations— Pew, Gallup— religious people are happier than secular people. Sure. And so when you combine the complete lack of religious foundation, a godless life, and told career is everything, uh, you— the last thing you need is a man in your life It's no wonder that I think a lot of young women are unhappy.

Sure. And the secular side of it is put forth by people that first, they themselves are unhappy, and they almost proselytize the secularization more than religious people put forth their religious beliefs.

Oh God, is that ever true! When they say this mantra, it is so wrong, and I'm saying this as a Jew. Oh, it's so wrong if Christians try to proselytize. I'm a Jew, I don't care. Why is it wrong? Why is it okay for the left to proselytize, but Christians shouldn't proselytize?

Well, the atheists proselytize.

Everybody proselytizes. If you believe in something, you proselytize. That's right. You can do it obnoxiously, or you can do it nicely, but what is wrong? This is what I believe. I'd like you to hear about it. I would love to hear about it.

And I joke around with the atheists, why does it matter to you? I mean, that's right. I mean, why are you wasting your limited amount of time on this planet? Because You got 42 years left and 17 days. Yes. You know, for me, there's a whole afterlife. For us, we're good. I mean, so if you want to have this conversation, I actually see some benefit in getting you to do it.

No, but I apply this to everything. I remember if, you know, on the rare occasion, say a Mormon would come to my door, I would invite them in. Of course.

Well, you gotta also, you know, appreciate the commitment they have too. Yeah, I totally do.

Look, I'm a big fan of Mormons.

And so this was one of the— and I've done so much thinking about this when I When I was younger, what were some of the themes that was taught to me and just beat like a drum? And one of them is the world is a worse place because of Jews and Christians. That was one of the things that I was taught so regularly.

And it would be much better if we were in a post-religious age.

That's right. So it was the lies about the Crusades and the evils of Christianity.

Well, you know what I say, because in this sense I can say it more easily than you because I'm not Christian. So I say, well, so wait a minute. And I wrote a book on antisemitism which has a big chapter on Christian antisemitism. I know all about it. I've taught courses on Jewish history at college on the college level. Nevertheless, the fact that you have to go back to the 15th century, you know, hello, that's a long time ago. That's correct. Oh, the Spanish Inquisition, that was in 1492. Okay, so the Christian record since 1500 isn't so bad if you have to go back to 1492. And wait a minute, who abolished slavery?

Atheists? Well, who formed America? Yes. Religious refugees from Europe that wanted to form their own colonies around specific forms of Christianity. That is correct. And so here's the question that I ask about Israel, about America, about religion. Is the world a better place because of America? Is the world a better place because of Israel?

I asked Howard Zinn that question. Howard Zinn is the— he's now passed away.

He's the most committed anti-American author.

Well, he wrote the standard— tragically, the standard history text.

The Untold History or something like that.

No, the Popular History, I think it's, of the United States. And what I call it is it's a proctologist's view of America. That's what I— that's how I describe his book. But I had him on my show and I never, I never dump on guests no matter how much I can't stand their views. And I treated him perfectly kindly. All I wanted was to get his— I asked him that question, would the world have been better had there never been a United States? And he was agnostic. He— that's stunning.

It's stunning. It is stunning. And but it's also— it takes effort. To come to that conclusion. And it takes an unsettled soul to come to that conclusion. In order to say that—

I don't think so.

And I don't want to virtue signal to him, but he must have been in a very unhappy place in his life.

When you go to college campuses, are you almost always greeted by protesters?

Initially, yes, but I'm seeing a change, Dennis. You are? Yes. That's great. More curiosity and open-mindedness. Look, there's still the protesters that sit up. Right.

But you know what? I believe you because I think a lot A lot of students are thinking, what's so bad about these people? Let me find out.

That's right. That's correct. Let me see it for myself. And there's a hilarious video of one of these street journalists that did— we spoke at Cal State Long Beach. And if you want to lose hope for America, spend time in California universities. Let me just put it that way. You want to gain hope for America, spend time anywhere else. So Candace Owens and I— and Candace is a total superstar, as you well know. We were speaking at Cal State Long Beach, and we had a sold-out crowd, and the university refused to give us a bigger auditorium, of course. We had 400 people inside, and they had this protest outside, and saying that, you know, the white supremacists are inside. And one of these street journalists went around, and they said, "Hey, so you think Candace Owens is a white supremacist?" Absolutely, 100%.

Candace Owens is black, just for the record.

But then they said, "And Charlie Kirk's a white supremacist." Yes. What does he say that's rooted in white supremacy? Just all of it, you know. And they— well, to show— you'll love this.

I don't know if you know this one. When I was— and I think it was, uh, was it University of Wyoming?

That's correct. Yes, that was, that was a Turning Point USA event. So, why Socialism Makes People Selfish. Yes.

And there were 1,200 people and, and 400 in another room. It was, it was a great success. And by the way, you could— folks should watch.

It's a great— it's a wonderful speech. Thank you.

So The usual. Every campus I go to, there are attacks on me prior to my coming from left-wing professors or students. So this one included the usual. How could we spend student funds or whatever it is? Oh, that was Colorado State. Why are we bringing in Dennis Prager, you know, who is a homophobic, Islamophobic, all the phobias. Okay. And anti-Semitic. Well, that one's— that one. Did you see that one?

Of course.

Yes. That was worth everything.

You wrote a book that's been published multiple times in Anti-Semitic.

Not only that, you are Jewish. Yes. And I'm pro-Jewish Jewish, which is not always the case. I'm a practicing Jew. I fought anti-Semitism my whole life. And so why? So then why did this woman write anti-Semitic? Because they get away with it. Yes. And because they just have a list. Then I am as homophobic and Islamophobic and racist and that all that as I am anti-Semitic. All of it is a lie. The whole thing is a lie. That's right. But it doesn't matter. If you throw it out enough, the assumption it will stick.

Without a doubt. And it's corrosive. And the university teaches students and they weaponize them to become activists that attack people's character, not challenge ideas. Yes. And so the academy was originally built to actually culture people away from the more tribal type thinking. The academy was built originally, first of all, to teach religion. That's actually the original charter of the American college. But secondly, it was— if you actually look at the reason why Harvard and Princeton and Yale, the original universities of America's founding, John Hopkins, were formed and advanced, it was people need to learn deeper ways to think and to be able to communicate. Now it's done the exact opposite. That's correct. Isn't that the— it's gone absolutely full circle back to tribalism.

And the assumption was that you are here to learn truth irrespective of where the, the chips may fall. Yes. You are here to learn the best music, the best ideas, the best literature. But not now.

I love, I love what you say about Bach and the Tokyo Philharmonic and the Indonesian music. And for the people that know, they're talking about the New York Times music critic. And this is— someone should write a book on this, and Jordan Peterson talked about it a little bit— but is the left hates anyone could be better at anything than anyone else, and if anyone is, it's because they exploited themselves to get there. How is Bach— who did he exploit by becoming the best composer of all time? Like, well, I mean, as you well know, I mean, the Look, it's all backwards.

I'm reading Steven Pinker because I always like to read people I differ with. He's the psychologist at Harvard who's an atheist, but he's a good— he also attacks the left. He's rare because he's a liberal, he's not a leftist. But of course, he— so he has a whole chapter on don't be pessimistic, things are getting better. And then he has a list of all of the diseases that we've conquered. In the last 100 years. And when he went through the list, I realized every single one is a European or American name. Every single disease that has been conquered has been in Europe. Now, does that mean white supremacy? That's idiotic. Hitler was white, and he was the garbage of humanity. Stalin was white, he was garbage. It has nothing to do with white. It has to do with values. Values produced Bach, Values produced insulin and a Salk vaccine, and that's what matters.

Well, and values created the peanut by George Washington Carver. I mean, it had nothing to do with race. It has everything to do with ideas and values and character.

So we're attacked for saying what we're saying now. Of course. That is what is so amazing. It's the anti-intellectual center, the university.

Oh, without a doubt, yes. And they've become a place, and I say this commonly, where they want everyone to look different but think the same.

Yes, that's right. Diversity is only looks. Only racial diversity.

Yes, like it matters. That's right. And that should be a point of optimism. You asked me earlier, why are you optimistic? Yeah. That brings me optimism. If the left trying to stop us from talking shows us that when we do talk, we win. So all we have to do is just talk more to talk to more people.

Well, that's what TPUSA—

And that gives me optimism.

Okay, that's good. I'm happy to hear this. By the way, how's our timing here? Because this is too much fun. 36 minutes. Sorry? 36. Oh, we've already gone over.

You're fun. We can keep going.

I know we can't, but we could. I know what you mean. Why not? Well, because it's better that they should want more. If you want more Charlie Kirk, tell everybody, I was blown away and that's a reason for optimism. You're the third most tweeted thinker type in the country. How, what is the order? The president?

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

Well, hold on. That's a little tough to hear, I have to say.

And then me. But, um, so, but if so, the president— so here's the optimism is that you got Ocasio-Cortez, who's a sitting member of Congress with unlimited amount of positive media coverage, and then me, just a couple varial points within her with nothing but negative media coverage and not a sitting member of Congress and 5 years younger. Um, that should give you optimism. Um, I mean, she has received billions of dollars of earned media. Of course. And I'm still within a couple margin points of Twitter engagement. So Axios did an objective analysis of who has the most engaged Twitter in American politics. And so the president was way up there, then Ocasio-Cortez and I was right there, even above the New York Times and people like even Don Jr. and Sean Hannity were mentioned there were much, much bigger. And so I'm happy to hear it shows that Ocasio-Cortez and your success is America's success. Same to you and Prager University. God bless you. Thank you, Dennis. Charlie Kirk.

He's special. Every generation throws out these special people. He's one of them. I'm Dennis Prager. This is a special edition, as it were, of my fireside chat. I'll see you next week. Thank you for watching. If you'd like to keep these fireside chats free, please do by donating to PragerU.