The Best of Jordan Peterson and Dennis Prager

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On today's episode of Timeless Wisdom.

If you're number one on Amazon, that don't— that, that means you're number one against all fiction and nonfiction, all children's book, all self-help books and coloring books. Yes. Everything. His book is titled 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos. Jordan Peterson, welcome to the Dennis Prager Show.

Hi, Dennis. Thanks a lot. Yeah, it's a great thing to be beating out all the coloring books.

That's coming up on Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager.

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Welcome to Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Hear thousands of hours of Dennis' lectures, courses, and classic radio programs. And to purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles, go to DennisPrager.com.

Hi everybody, I'm Dennis Prager, and it's a pleasure to welcome to the show Jordan Peterson. Professor of Psychology at the University of Toronto, whose recent appearance on the BBC went viral, as it should. And he is the author of the number one best-selling book on Amazon. That is a much bigger achievement. That's a real life achievement. Nobody knows how the New York Times gets to its bestseller list. It's— It's It's part voodoo and part Wiccan theology. Nobody really knows, but the Amazon numbers are for real. So if you're number 1 on Amazon, that means you're number 1 against all fiction and nonfiction, all children's books, all self-help books, and coloring books. Yes, everything.

Wow. Yes.

And he is Jordan Peterson, who is a fighter for the good fight, and who, by unbelievably fortuitous coincidence, is this week's presenter of a Prager University video. Fix yourself. It's titled Fix Yourself, and his book is titled 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos. Jordan Peterson, welcome to the Dennis Prager Show.

Hi, Dennis. Thanks a lot. Yeah, it's a great thing to be beating out all the coloring books.

No, no, I knew, I knew. You know what? So now I'm going to let you in on a secret. I say something ridiculous in most of my introductions of authors. Sometimes they go completely unnoted. So it is a credit to you. It means you are really real that you gave that reaction.

It's always good to be looking for the surreal and comical.

Isn't it? There is no— otherwise we're doomed. Otherwise we— I had a feeling we're kindred spirits. And, uh, this is verifying my suspicion.

Well, that's so much, so much the worse for you, I would say. But that's okay.

That's a good one. Where are you right now? Are you in Toronto?

No, I'm in LA. I'm out here to talk to— I'm out here with a friend of mine, Greg Hurwitz, who's an author of a book. He's got a book coming out this week too called Hellbent, and in that book, it's a part of the Orphan X series, and his, his characters follow my rules for life, which is quite fun.

Oh, that's nice.

And there's been that little interweaving of that into his books. Yeah, it's been pretty fun.

By the way, I just wanna know, were you impressed that I said Toronto and not Toronto?

I'm impressed, but I'm easily impressed. I'm Canadian, eh, we're easily impressed.

Oh, by the way, you will love this, talking about your being Canadian. So I asked Charles Krauthammer, the famous American analyst of news and life, So he is Canadian, he grew up in Montreal, and I asked him once, and it was in public, what is the biggest difference between Canada and the United States? You will love his response. So let me, you have, he said, I'll tell you that, Dennis, it was amazing that he came up with this immediately. Here's the biggest difference, Dennis. The motto of Canada is peace, order and good government. The motto of the United States is life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. What do you think of that?

Yeah, well, that's, that's exactly it. That, well, that peace, order, and good government, that's built right into our Constitution.

Yeah.

Yeah, so it's definitely— it's a funny thing because in some ways Canadians are more conservative than Americans, or they're less libertarian, I would say, you know. And, and, but but in other ways they're more liberal. So Canada is sort of like the US if you chopped off the extremes.

Right, although to be honest—

Middle of the road.

Correct, that's the way the Canadian person is. I agree with you. I've been to every province except Prince, what is it? Prince Edward Island, yeah.

Prince Edward Island?

Yeah, the only one I missed.

It's nice, Prince Edward Island. It's worth going to. Yeah, I know.

But somebody has to invite me to lecture. That's how I get there. And so I'm waiting.

Right, right.

Anyway, this is fascinating, but I want to get to your book, obviously. So this is, first of all, I love the title, "12 Rules for Life." Obviously, these things always work. But an antidote to chaos. What do you mean by that?

Well, I think that part of the modern condition, let's say, especially after the 19th century, part of the modern condition has been that people are unmoored in their beliefs. You know, Christianity is rocking, let's say, and in peril, and people are not well situated with regards to what they think is right and wrong and how they should act in the world. There's an epidemic of nihilism and depression and cynicism and resentment, all of that, and that comes from being unmoored from your archetypal foundations, I would say. And so, part of 12 Rules for Life is, although each of the rules is a principle or a maxim and some of them are tongue-in-cheek and some of them are satirical and some of them are dead serious, they're all— I chase all of them down into the depths, I would say, to help people reunite with what's the best, with the best of their tradition so that they can bring it forward. And that is the antidote to chaos. It's always been the antidote to chaos. It's an old, old story, and I'm telling it in a new way, you know, and I've been fortunate because I've read all the great clinicians of the 20th century, and they were very wise people, and I've learned a very, I learned a lot, both abstractly and practically, and was able to synthesize it for 12 Rules for Life. And what's fun about it— this is what's really fun in my life right now— is that wherever I go— it's happened in London, it happened in Amsterdam, it happens in random airports and in restaurants— is young people, mostly men, come up to me and say, "Look, I've been watching your videos for the last year. I was in a pretty dark place. I didn't know what I was doing with my life. I started paying attention to some of the things that you've been saying, trying to tell the truth, trying to adopt more responsibility. And like, I'm engaged to my girlfriend, I've got 2 promotions at work, I'm doing all these things that I wanted to do but was afraid to do. And like, thanks very much. So, well, that's the antidote to chaos, man, as far as I'm concerned. Make a vision, make a plan, detail it out, articulate it properly, have some damn courage, and get out there in the world because the world needs you, needs your light, so to speak. So, and it works. So that's really— it couldn't be better, right? How could that be? How could anything be better than that? So hooray, as far as I'm concerned. Hey, I watched the animation today. I liked it. You know, I thought it was straightforward, and I think the animation really helped with the message. So that was good. And I know last time I looked, about 100,000 people had watched it. So that's pretty good. It was only launched yesterday. No, today.

So no, it launched— no, it launched today. You'll have— you'll have a million. You'll have a million within 2 days. We had 600 million views last night. No, you— you won't complain, I promise. No, uh, I don't know that. I really— I know we're kindred spirits, and even our experiences Do you know that— my listeners know this, you would not know this— I do not hide from my listeners. Not only do I not hide what I think, I do not hide what I feel. And they knew that I was pessimistic with regard to America and Western civilization generally. I have been profoundly heartened by two things. One, the election in the United States. And the other is what you just pointed out about young people. We had 600 million views at Prager University last year, and 65% of them are 35 years of age or younger.

Yeah.

And just as you described the young people coming over to you at Amsterdam and London, I got in the last 6 months invitations to speak to young people in Romania, in Georgia and Brazil, all because of the internet and all young people making these invitations. I have optimism. If we can get a constructive message like yours and mine and many others to young people, there is hope.

Yep, that's what it looks like to me. I think, you know, I think it would be a nice time to see us this, that the new generation of young people could top the achievements of the great generation. You know, that would be something, to take on the responsibility to sort things out.

They have to awaken to— I love your word— the chaos that they have been given, that they are told in America, and it's probably true in Canada, but I can— I know it's true in the United States— teachers Was he disconnected? Yeah, clearly that was— that answered that question. I always wonder how these things happen. Uh, but anyway, we'll get him back, obviously. But what I was— what I was about to say— what was I about to say? Because the hangup just disconnected my— I think— oh yes, that's right, the kids are told they're not boys or girls anymore. I know that's a big issue for Jordan Peterson. We're going to discuss that. His book, the number one Amazon bestseller right now, and his course is up at prageruniversity.com, By Sheer Coincidence: 12 Rules for Life, an Antidote to Chaos. Jordan Peterson. We'll be back in a moment.

This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

If you're eating less, staying disciplined, and the weight still isn't coming off, the problem may not be your effort. It may be your metabolism. After years of stress, dieting, and lack of sleep, the body adapts. It slows down and holds on to fat. That's why PhD Weight Loss focuses on your metabolism first, so your body stops working against you. Mention Prager today and receive 2 free weeks plus free food, a $1,500 value. Call 864-644-1900. That's 864-644-1900.

Now, back to more of Dennis Prager's timeless wisdom.

And I have him on the line. Why, he's really ubiquitous. The best-selling book in the country, at PragerU, and now on the show. That's a trifecta for you. Jordan Peterson's book is "12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos." It is up at DennisPrager.com. When you were disconnected by Russian collusion, just—

Those Russians, they're real pesky.

Yeah, that's right. The Russkies are peskies.

Yeah.

And I was saying, 'cause we were talking about, I love your choice of the word chaos, what is being bequeathed to the current generation in the United States. And on this particular notion, I would assume Canada is there because Canada is at least as politically correct, but, uh, the teachers are told in the United States in elementary schools, do not refer to your students as boys and girls lest you impose a gender identity.

Yeah, yeah, we had in Alberta, one of Canada's provinces, there was a suggestion that the boys and girls refer to each other as comrades. That came from the Alberta Teachers Association, but they decided after a fair bit of negative publicity that perhaps that wasn't the wisest choice of words. Well, that was a bit— a demonstration of learning.

Yeah, well, that's a bad choice for Alberta. I'm not sure that that wouldn't fly in Quebec or Ontario.

Well, you know, hopefully we're not that far down the road, although I know that in Ontario, the Elementary Teachers Federation of Ontario has already put out a curriculum that's explicitly designed to turn children from kindergarten to grade 8 into social justice activists. I mean, that's even what it's called. And we have social justice tribunals in Ontario now. So, and the Law Society in Ontario has made it mandatory for its members, for the lawyers in Ontario, to come out with a pro-social justice statement or risk losing their license. But the lawyers are, there is a number of lawyers who are organizing to fight that off. So, I don't know which of our countries is going to go to hell in a handbasket faster. It's kind of a neck-and-neck race as far as I can tell.

Well, we were faster. We swapped. You— we were faster to hell in a handbasket, and then we elected Donald Trump. You were slower, uh, and then you elected Trudeau. So we've swapped the first place in that race.

Yeah, Trudeau, he's the guy who thought the best way to pick a cabinet was by gender. Brilliant. Why bother screening people for competence when you can screen them for genitals?

Yeah, exactly right. What is your story— well, how do you react to this, the current movement of calling students who want "zee" as opposed to "he" or "she"?

Well, the thing that— I don't really care what people want to be called. It's up to them, more or less, and if they're reasonable to me in their discussion of it, I might be willing to acquiesce if I felt it was in their best interest, but for me, That wasn't the issue. The issue was that the government made it illegal not to do it. It's like, no, sorry, that's the law as far as I'm concerned.

Right, exactly. I'm with you on that. That is exactly it.

Yeah, well, in the US, you guys took care of that back in about 1942 because there was a Supreme Court ruling that stated explicitly that the government was not to mandate compelled speech. And we have the same legal tradition, and that should have been obvious, like the necessity of that. Or the ill-advisedness of that should have been obvious to the politicians who were putting this forward, but they don't give a damn about niceties like jurisprudential precedent or freedom of speech. Those are all part of the tyrannical patriarchy.

Let me read to—

It needs to be obliterated.

I'm gonna read to my listeners just a few of your rules in the 12 Rules for Life, which incidentally I intend on reading. Rule number 1, stand up straight with your shoulders back. What do you mean by that?

Have dignity? Well, it's that. It's face the world with courage.

Good, courage.

Like, the world's a harsh place, you know?

Yes.

There's no doubt about that.

That's right.

And the book Rules for Life makes that very clear. It's— the world is a tragic place and it's touched by malevolence and people's lives are difficult and it's a hell of a burden to be alive. But the best way to deal with that is to confront it straightforwardly and That chapter does two things. It describes the fact that hierarchical structures are deeply embedded in nature, and so the idea that hierarchical structures are in some sense a side effect of patriarchal capitalism is— it's nonsense of the highest order. Hierarchies have been around for 350 million years, which is a lot longer than capitalism has been around. And the chapter is a description of why it's necessary to confront the world forthrightly and courageously, why that works better for you, why it works better for your family, why it works better for society. So it's a deep discussion of why your grandmother was right when she told you to stand up straight and stop slouching.

It's terrific. It's really heartening to hear you.

It's a comical chapter too.

No, no, no, I know. You have dark humor. I love it.

I talk a lot about lobsters in that chapter, and you'd think, "Well, what the hell do they have to do with anything?" But it turns out that they have— lobsters are more like people than you might think, and so I make a very comical case for that, I think, in the chapter. It's comical and serious at the same time.

Do you have any allies at the University of Toronto?

Oh yeah, look, I mean, the University of Toronto is a fairly conservative institution. I mean, first of all, most of the students there are children of first-generation immigrants. And all they care about is getting good grades and seeing if they can situate themselves in the workplace. The activists are a tiny, tiny, noisy, obnoxious minority. And I would say that it's the same with the faculty members. Most of them are diligently pursuing their research interests, you know, in kind of narrow-focused isolation, which is really what they should be doing. But there's about 200 people there, maybe a couple hundred more, who are of the social justice activist types, especially at the Ontario Institute for the Studies of Education, which I have a propensity to refer to as "rats' nest central," so that hasn't exactly endeared me to them.

Mm-hmm.

But it's not like I'm under attack at the University of Toronto. The administration there has really decided to leave me be ever since last January, and there are people who come out now and then, like they did in September, with 200-person petitions trying to get me fired, and It just, it's just a no-starter. So, and the university, I would say, 'cause I've heard, I have some sources, let's say, in the administration who are informing me about what's going on behind the scenes, and the university has redoubled its commitment to free speech in the aftermath of what's happened over the last year. So, you know, I think they made some errors when what the videos I was making critiquing the federal legislation went viral. I think they made some errors, but people make mistakes. The question is, what do they do in the aftermath of those mistakes? And I would say that the University of Toronto has sorted itself out quite, quite intelligently. There's still trouble, and it isn't perfect, and there's still an—

One final question, Jordan Peterson. Do you regard yourself as essentially secular or religious?

Oh, I would say I regard myself as essentially religious, but I'll make a secular case. I'll make a secular case whenever that's possible.

Well, you'll do it again. All right, we'll have you on again if you're up for it. It's a joy to talk to you.

Hey, well, thanks for everything you've done.

You're welcome. Thank you, sir. Jordan Peterson. And I'll tell you why I asked that question. I did not know the answer.

I'll tell you why I asked This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

If you're eating less, staying disciplined, and the weight still isn't coming off, the problem may not be your effort. It may be your metabolism. After years of stress, dieting, and lack of sleep, the body adapts. It slows down and holds on to fat. That's why PhD Weight Loss focuses on your metabolism first, so your body stops working against you. Mention Prager today and receive 2 free weeks plus free food, a $1,500 value. Call 864-644-1900. That's 864-644-1900.

Are you enjoying Timeless Wisdom? We'd love to hear from you. Call 877-243-7776 and leave a review, share your thoughts, or just even an encouraging word for Dennis. Your voicemail might just make it on the show. That's 877-243-7776. 7776. That's 877-243-7776. Thanks for listening and for your support. Now back to more of Dennis Prager's timeless wisdom.

I promised you I would explain the question, my last question to Jordan Peterson, who clearly exudes wisdom. My theory is that there is no wisdom outside of the God-centered world of the Judeo-Christian system. There is a lot of knowledge, but there is no wisdom, and that's why there's no wisdom at our universities. It's a pack of foolishness. And here was a man who was so obviously wise. I had no idea if he was an atheist, a religious man, a secular man. I had no idea. I gambled. I And I said, "Are you essentially a secular or religious person?" Thought for a moment and said, "Religious." That's the reason I asked it. 'Cause if I hear wisdom, I just assume there is an essence of religiosity there. Jordan Peterson, welcome back to the Dennis Prager Show.

Hey, thanks very much. I'm looking forward to the conversation.

Thank you. Where are you located right now?

I'm in Louisville, Kentucky.

I was just reading a piece about you. We, as you— I'm sure you know, we share a lot of not only views but reactions to us. So I— my latest attacker is the Southern Poverty Law Center.

Oh, they're a fun group.

Yes, have they gone after you yet?

Only tangentially. They've mentioned me in a couple of articles, but nothing— I'm not on their list yet.

Right, right. Well, they just did a huge thing on Prager University. You will enjoy this. In a nutshell, we've had Dave Rubin on. Dave Rubin is a gay Jewish liberal, and we have had him on doing a Prager University video, "Why I Left the Left." He himself has had people who have had somewhat racist-based, or so it's claimed, views on his show, because he likes to talk to everybody. So because we had somebody who had guests on his show doing our video, we are engaged in hate.

Yeah, well, you know, the Southern Poverty Law Center is one of the most appalling organizations I've I've ever encountered. So, um, right, and I, I think they've pretty much run their course as far as I'm concerned. Yeah. So any, any group that targets Ayaan Hirsi Ali is, is—

That's right, my man. Yes, you're, you're, you're a good man. But I— this one is mind-blowing. Why don't you tell my listeners? I just read this on The Daily Caller. There is this— where is Bloomsburg University? Pennsylvania. Okay.— oh no, wait, it says Bloomsburg University of Pennsylvania philosophy professor. What does that mean, Bloomsburg? Are you aware of this?

I believe so. I think it's Wendy Lynn Lee. Yes, correct, correct. Yes, yeah, she's been, you know, being careless with her words, let's say. But that's par for the course for the activist types. There's another professor of philosophy a feminist professor of philosophy at Cornell University who did the same thing this week. You know, they're making capital out of the New York Times piece that claimed that I was in favor of some— or claimed that I was in favor of something approximating state-enforced monogamy, which of course is an absolutely absurd claim. I don't know of anyone who ever has ever made that claim. So, you know, to be put in a group whose membership is zero is quite, or let's say one.

You know, you know, you made me think. You're right. It was, I can't think of a society that had state-enforced monogamy. I mean, unless, wait, do they mean state, meaning that you want the state to enforce that people marry or that we not have polygamy?

Oh no, no, no. The claim, essentially the implicit claim in the New York Times article, was something approximating me wanting the state to intervene on the behalf of men who are sexually celibate not by choice, so to make sure that they have partners. Incels. Yes, and so it's so preposterous that it barely— You're right, no, no, it— It requires a rejoicing.

Right, well, here's the best. You now, I am giving you the Dennis Prager Award for absurd attack. You were, you a married man with a child or children, you are called by this professor an incel, involuntarily celibate.

Yeah, well, she's, she has her, like I said, she could be a bit more cautious with her words.

I love your understated reactions. We'll continue with Jordan Peterson. In a moment. Pleasure of talking with Jordan Peterson, professor of psychology, University of Toronto. Notice I did not say Toronto, Toronto. And he teaches the newest PragerU video, and he's truly now up there. I said he was— I don't know, did you hear me call you an intellectual rock star?

I think I did overhear that, yeah.

And I have a sense that you— I have a feeling I know you somewhat. I clearly don't know you very well, but I have some sense that you hear the words and think, uh, this is a very funny phrase from a nice guy named Prager, and let's just move on.

Well, it's an interesting comparison. I mean, um, The thing is, I don't really think that the people I'm talking to are fans in that sense, but maybe they have something in common with people who like music. I've talked to about 80,000 people or more on this live tour now, and the real story as far as I'm concerned is the fact that virtually all of them are coming out to see my lecture because they're trying to improve their lives as individuals. I don't mean trying to make them easier. I mean trying to make them more difficult and full of responsibility. And one of the things that's been unbelievably gratifying about all this is that I'm meeting all these people who tell me about the fact that their life was in disorder in some regard— too much alcohol or drugs or nihilism or trouble with their families or friends or aimlessness or hopelessness, depression, all of that sort of thing, all the pits that people can fall in— and that they've been— Mm-hmm. Trying to develop a vision for their life and taking on more responsibility for themselves and their family and their community and trying to say what they believe to be true and that their lives are way better. I talked to one kid this week who was at my talk. He said that he had got out of jail a year and a half ago and was homeless. He started listening to these lectures and he's married, he has a daughter, and he just bought his own apartment. Wow. And so that was his story. And I hear dozens of stories like that a week, and maybe hundreds, actually, I guess, if I count all the people who are talking to me after the talks. And so this is a really good thing, and it's a great antidote to this collectivist idiocy that's being peddled on in our political conversations now.

Jordan, did you always have these views? Or, I don't mean since you were 5, but as an adult, did you always have these views?

Well, the view, the view that the individual is the antidote to the catastrophe of collectivism, that probably developed in my 20s.

Okay, so I have a question then.

Yeah.

My qu— how do you account for the fact that, so to speak, overnight you have reached this critical mass of people who are acquainted with your work? What happened?

Well, I think it wasn't entirely overnight. You know, I had built a reasonable audience in Ontario. Working with some TV stations there, and, um, my YouTube lectures before all this political controversy, let's say, which is really philosophical controversy by the way, um, had hit 1.5 million views, which isn't a trivial number. Like, it's not a huge number.

No, it is a huge number. No, it is. For a YouTube video, that's huge. Go, but go on. Okay, well, so, and then I guess, um, the time was right to start to talk about So my question is, so I'm alluding to something and just tell me if you feel, do you think that there is now a greater possibility of receptivity to the anti-collectivist mindset than there was, let's say, even 15 years ago?

Oh, definitely. Yeah, absolutely. People are absolutely starving for a discussion about individual responsibility. Not rights, eh, that's the thing. I'm not talking to people about their damn rights. Enough of that talk. I'm pointing out to them that in order to withstand the tragedy of existence properly without becoming bitter, that you need to chart a meaningful course, and that for the vast majority of people, there's no difference between the meaning of life and the responsibility that you take on in life for yourself and for your family and for the broader world. Everyone knows that. Those are the people you admire, the people who do that. And so—

Dennis Prager.

I'm talking to my audiences in detail about that blunt fact, is that you need a reason to get up in the morning on rough days when things aren't going right. And the reason is that you have important, meaningful things to do, that you have people relying on you, and that you're taking your proper place in the world and trying to become more than you are. And people are so receptive to that idea that when I talk about that in particular, The audiences of— and now the audiences are 2,500 to 3,000 people. They're dead quiet. They're so hungry for this idea.

The parallels of our lives are eerie to me. I have been saying for so long that a basic difference between a religious and a secular upbringing is exactly on that issue, that in a regular school you are taught what your rights are, and in my religious upbringing, I was only taught what my responsibilities are.

The reason that rights are built into the structure of reality, let's say, is because they facilitate your responsibility. That's the direction of importance, is that the fundamental conversation is about responsibility, not about rights. I don't know how we forgot that. Well, you have a hypothesis, you think it has to do with the secularization of culture, and that's a reasonable hypothesis. I think there may well be something to it, which is also why I root— ground, let's say— much of my writing and my thinking in profound religious stories. So because they definitely stress— well, I would say they stress the divine nature of consciousness, let's say, something like that, in the form of the soul. And place a heavy burden on people to bear the suffering and malevolence of the world on their shoulders properly, and that dignifies people, and everyone knows that as well. And the other thing people tell me, they say, "Well, I'm happy to encounter your lectures because they help me put into words things I already knew to be true." This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

If you're eating less, staying disciplined, and the weight still isn't coming off, the problem may not be your effort, it may be your metabolism. After years of stress, After years of dieting and lack of sleep, the body adapts. It slows down and holds on to fat. That's why PhD Weight Loss focuses on your metabolism first, so your body stops working against you. Mention Prager today and receive 2 free weeks plus free food, a $1,500 value. Call 864-644-1900. That's 864-644-1900.

Now back to more of Dennis Prager's timeless wisdom.

Hi everybody, Dennis Prager here. Jordan Peterson, professor of psychology, University of Toronto, now in Louisville, giving a lecture presumably. And the latest PragerU video is his, Dangerous People Are Teaching Your Kids. I had reason to cite you in a controversy I had with the New York Times 2 months ago. Our books were 1 and 2 in nonfiction in the United States, and neither was on the New York Times bestseller list. So I mentioned, which I've always known, it's a fraudulent list. That's why they never reveal how they arrive at their numbers. Amazon is much more accurate, obviously, and Publishers Weekly is, and so on. So, you know what reason they gave? The New York Times actually responded to my article, amazingly. Do you know what they gave for your not appearing on their list? Is Jordan there?

List in Canada?

Yeah, yeah, say it again, because you were not on, unfortunately.

I think it had something to do with the book being published in Canada, something like that.

Yes, that's right. But it's published by an American publisher.

Ja, ja, I know, I know. Well, and it's been number one in like about 7, 8 countries now, and for months. So, ja, well, you know, if you gerrymander the facts long enough, you lose your brand. So that's going to be happening to the New York Times bestseller list.

Yes, it's another form— it really is, unfortunately, it is another form of fake news. Why they don't change it. I mean, anyone who is not mesmerized by the words New York Times understands it's a fraudulent list, and yet it doesn't bother them. They live in a cocoon. That's all I can say. It's remarkable. And you were called— Well— Yeah, go on.

Well, they obviously, they believe that their brand is more powerful than than truth. That's why they won't discuss the derivation of their numbers.

That's it.

And that's just not the case. You can't get away with that for very long, actually.

Yes, well, that's the hope. And by the way, when this woman, this professor, called you an incel, involuntary celibate, not realizing you were in fact married with children or child, it reminded me at the University of Wyoming, a left-wing female professor said that I was an anti-Semite, and then it came out that, oh by golly, he's a Jew.

Well, you know, you anti-Semite Jews are pretty popular now, apparently.

Yeah.

Yeah, I've been called an anti-Semite and a Jewish shill the same week, which I thought was quite fun.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

You may be the first in history. Jordan Peterson's 2.5 million views in 3 days video is up at PragerU. Keep up the great work, my friend.

Thanks. It's been very nice talking with you.

Thank you.

Tomorrow on Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager.

July 18th, 1918 is when my dad, Max Prager, was born, and it's become a fairly set schedule on this program to have him on.

Oh, thank you very much.

When you say you're 88, does it— does it seem to you you're 88, or is your internal chronology much lower?

Much, much lower. Much lower. In fact, everything that I like, everything that I'm interested in, has not changed since my 20s.

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