Timeless Wisdom - Male/Female Hour: The War on Masculinity

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Hi everybody, and welcome to the Male-Female Hour.

Every hour, every hour, Every week at this hour, I discuss men and women. I title it though, The Male-Female Hour, for a whole host of reasons, but we won't get into them right now. This is Dennis Prager. Today's subject on The Male-Female Hour is, is there a decline in the masculinity of men? Has that been taking place in the last generation? Both men and women are welcome to call in. My own take is that that is indeed what has happened.

And I speak a lot to women about this.

It is a lament that many women who are single feel, not all. And if, by the way, if you disagree, I'm not rooting for bad news, believe me. So if the news out there is better than I think it might be, I'd be more than happy to hear from you. 1-800-PRAGER-776. Men, do you feel that there is a decline? And I can give you so many examples, and I will, because the term is a loose term. And first of all, it's not even used that much any longer.

But I guess to use what will look superficial, but it is not superficial. Exemplary, it exemplifies it in a good, in an effective way, is going from John Wayne to Tom Cruise as, and there's no insult intended whatsoever, it's not my style and it's not the point at all. John Wayne is rugged, doesn't care how he looks, at least it isn't obvious that he cares how he looks in a film. And, you know, love me, don't love me, that's all right.

I'm who I am.

Tom Cruise is pretty. I mean, there's no way around it. I mean, he is objectively pretty. He is, he, as long as he will be able, will radiate a boy charm, not a man charm. And movies represent reality in many ways. And so that's just one of so many examples. The move, by the way, to prettifying men. I am struck by the number of movies and the number of men who feel it necessary to remove body hair. I mean, it used to be that when I was a kid, And we're not talking the longest time ago. When I was a kid, boys ached to have chest hair, for example. That was a way in which we knew we're a man. Now they shave it off. Their models of pretty men don't even have that. But that is what we call a secondary masculine trait, just as non-hair is a secondary female trait.

Primary or genitalia.

And so it is like it's a big deal. It was considered a very strong thing representing a guy being a guy. Now those are symbolic in the looks area, where a guy's pretty. The latest James Bond, Daniel Craig, I'm just looking at a picture of him from the Daily Mail, and he is He is as hairless on his body as a woman, as hairless. And when Sean Connery was, I mean, Sean Connery had chest hair, I mean, not a little. And he was, you know, women went nuts for him. He was, so just in the James Bond character in the 007 films, You can see this movement. Now you may say it's trivial and you may be right.

I think it's not trivial.

I think it is representative. Next is, as a woman lamented to me in what I was, I gave a speech in Toronto last year and a woman at my table was an attractive, successful woman and who divorced and was dating and hoping to get married, and she was telling me how it is, it is rare that a man on a date will pick up the tab. And men tell me, well, of course they're not going to pick up the tab. The woman is usually making just as much money as he is. Why the hell should I pay for the dinner? You know, we're just, we're, we're just getting to know each other. And, and I have to tell you, I, I would, and I did. I mean, I, it's very, very late in my life that I had any money at all and never had much and before that had very little, but I would sooner have taken a woman to the cheapest restaurant and pay than the most expensive and split the tab. It was, I never split a tab with a woman in my life. It was just out of the question. Now, I may be, to a lot of young men listening, I may be just a relic. This might be a dinosaur-type idea. But that's not the point. The point is that there's a change. Now, the question is whether the change is good. The question is whether there is an issue of the masculine here. And the de-emphasis on the masculine. And that is why I want women to respond, especially if you are— well, I guess married women could call in too.

They may feel that this is reflective one way or the other in their own husband. These are matters that concern me. There's an article in the Daily Mail in London And it's titled, Why Women Are to Blame for Killing Off Real Men.

And, you know, we, well, we wanted the men to do 50% of the housework. We wanted them to cook meals for us. We wanted them to be sensitive to us. And by golly, we got what we wished.

And now where are the real men?

That's a major part of her article. And that's my question.

That's why I tell you there is this unsung film, Bedazzled, which, which is so terrific, about a man who sells his soul to the devil. There are two incarnations, the, the early one from the '60s and the recent one from a few years ago. The recent one from a few years ago has a scene where the man who has sold his sold to the devil to get 7 wishes so that he could conquer this woman he has a crush on at work. And he finds in her diaries, because they are able to invisibly sneak into the room, the devil makes them invisible. He's read her diary. She wants a sensitive man. So one of his 7 wishes is to become the most sensitive man in the world. And they're at— so he gets his wish, and the next scene is he's with the girl he wants to win over. And he is just crying at the sunset. And a couple of guys walk over to them, kick sand in his face. He does nothing. And she, who wants poetry recited to her, and a man who could cry, and a man who loves sunsets, walks off with the guys who kicked the sand in the guy's face, who were just rough, tough, miserable rough guys, but clearly masculine in their way, and leaves him in the sand. 1-800-PRAGER-776. 1-800-PRAGER-776. And that's the question. Do you feel that there has been an emasculation and a de-emphasis Forgetting even a masculine, just a de-emphasis on the masculine male. And I gave you the personification in the John Wayne character versus the good-looking boyish character of a Tom Cruise. I'll take your calls when we come back. 1-8-PRAGER-776. That's 877-243-7776. If it's busy, keep trying. This is the Male-Female Hour, and I, I am very interested in getting your feedback. The 50/50 man, is he still masculine? You are listening to the Dennis Prager Show, the Male-Female Hour.

This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

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Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.

If I may say a good word about my own radio show, am I allowed, Alan?

I'm not kidding, huh?

I'll allow a dispensation.

You'll allow a dispensation here? This show, I believe, is the most 50/50 male/female of general talk shows that exist.

And what's even more interesting to me is that you will have many men call up on micro subjects and many women call up on macro subjects. That's how balanced it is in that way. So right now, I would have—

I really predicted all the lines would be female, and they're all male. But we have to hear from some females on this, so we may have to do a little affirmative action action here. 1-800-PRAGER-776. This is the Male-Female Hour on the Dennis Prager Show, the hour each week talking about men and women. And we talk about some very sensitive subjects, as you can see on the list of the subjects of the show at theprageradio.com.

Website.

Today the subject is, has there been a lessened masculinity among men in the West generally, but specifically of course American men?

And I think of the change, two changes that I can give you from movies, because that's a frame of reference we would all have. From John Wayne to Tom Cruise, from rugged masculine guy to a pretty boy.

Not meant to insult him in the least. He may be the most wonderful man. It's not the issue.

Just what he— what is personified.

He— there is a boy there, and John Wayne is never thought of as a boy. Never.

And the other is the character of 007, James Bond.

A quintessentially masculine male.

And the hairy chest of Sean Connery to Daniel Craig, the latest 007, as, as hairless as a female.

Now, that all may be, in your view, nothing, and that's fine, but that— they're just two examples from the film world. All righty, let's go to some of your calls, and we'll begin in El Segundo, California. Fred. Hi, Fred. Dennis Prager.

I appreciate the opportunity. This is an incredibly important topic. I love it. I'd love to go out to dinner with you, watch you smoke a cigar, I'll sip the whiskey, and we'll talk about this for hours.

Thank you.

We'll swap vices.

There we go. I love those kind of simple, manly vices.

That's right.

So as a side note, I thought about when you talk about the 50/50 relationship, I remember when I was in college and I was 20 years old, for a short while I dated an 18-year-old gal. Who is a senior in high school. And she told me expressly that she didn't want a 50-50 relationship. She wanted like a 60-40 relationship where the man takes a lead in the relationship. And to me it was, "What are you talking about?" That didn't make sense. I was all about 50-50 fairness. But what I told Ava going in, a couple things. A, there has clearly been an emasculation of men in our society and a feminization of society. And you can look at some of the macro trends, if you will. Fads among youth. When I was a kid in the '70s moving into '80s, the guys used to drive those mini little pickup trucks, and then women started using those mini pickup trucks, and then girls started driving— women started driving Jeeps. Then girl women started smoking cigars, and then women embraced tattooing. All of those were the domain of men.

Very, very good point.

And then you look at—

Which, it's funny when you say that.

I've never, and I've mentioned this in the past, I never bought Freud's theory of penis envy.

But with all of the taking on by the leading women's movement called feminism, which only was take on all the traits that men have in their sexuality, in anything, and then in their macro pursuits, just be like men, you wondered, was Freud right?

Probably. And then you look to that, we see in our society, which is to some degree liberalism, the embracing of emotions, and you look—

Are you breaking? Unfortunately, your phone is breaking down.

You know, uh, that was the third one, and I— so I'm sorry, but I think his point is right. Do you know what just hit me?

This is really an idea worth exploring.

Is equality a feminine value? I think it is. See, America is— it was always a masculine society. In fact, that was a major critique of feminism. It's a patriarchal society. The masculine was valued in the macro values. And one of them is that is not equality. Equality, the 50/50, you know, we will in the micro and the macro is a feminine or feminist value. We will split the tab, I will not treat you, right? Not masculine. I will do 50% of the housework. Whatever you'll say, that's not the traditional notion of masculine, and men do tend to rebel against that. Unless they have divvied up things where, you see, it's funny, I think it's more masculine to be fully in charge of the house. I don't have a problem with the house husband, ironically. I have much more of a problem with the 50/50. I'll do 50% of the dishes, you'll do 50% of the dishes. I'll do 50% of the beds, you'll do 50% of the beds. I'll do 50% of the sweeping, you'll do 50% of the vacuuming. If a guy's in charge of the house and she gets the money outside, I don't think he's emasculated, okay? I just want to make that clear. But 50/50 is not a masculine trait, it's a feminine trait. You don't want to hurt anybody's feelings because you don't want anybody better off than anybody else. The man is, I want to win. That's why the movement not to allow or the movement to give every kid who plays baseball, every 12-year-old gets an award, as my kids did, you would not know, it'd be no way to know whether my kids were on winning or losing teams because they all got awards. As it is, they kept up the Prager tradition of being on losing teams. But I didn't get awards when I was a kid for being on the losing team. The only kids who got awards were the kids on the winning team. And it never occurred to me in my craziest dreams that I'd get an award on a losing team. That's a feminine value. Equality is a feminine value. France had it, not America. America's life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness. France's is liberty, equality, fraternity.

It's a big difference.

That's why we produce John Wayne.

All righty, let's, let's go to some more calls. In Houston, Texas, it's Mary Ann. Hello, Mary Ann, Dennis Prager.

Yes, hello. I was just calling in regards to the— hello?

Yes, go ahead.

I'm sorry, calling in regards to the eating out. I definitely think that the, you know, we should operate with with our men being men. The only thing, advice I give my daughter if she's going out on a dinner date is, you know, to split it 50/50 only for the reason that I don't want the gentleman to think that now he's laid out money for her, she owes him something.

Yeah, but you see, but that's not the way it should work. I should pay for the woman because I'm a man, not because I'm gonna get to third base that night. Back in a moment.

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Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.

You're listening to the Dennis Prager Show, and Marianne And Houston, thank you for that call.

And we're talking about the question—

this is the male-female hour. I have this hour devoted to issues of men and women every single week at this time.

And the question is, is there a devaluing of masculinity?

I have no doubt that there is. I've given any number of examples and we'll repeat them later, but not now. But her last one was 'Cause I'm against the 50/50 on a date. I'll pay 50%, I'm a guy.

If you're a guy, in my opinion, you should pay for the whole thing.

If you can't afford it, go to a cheaper restaurant. And if the woman resents you because it's a cheaper restaurant, this is not the woman for you.

What she should instead love is the fact that you're paying for, of course, I'm talking first date, second date, third date, that's what I'm talking about. And this notion of, this notion, I have to tell you, Alan and I looked at each other It is as if we come from a different planet. The guy pays for dinner and therefore you are obligated to have sex with him? Excuse me? What? What? That— see, Mary Ann told her daughter, you maybe should have 50/50. She's against it, Mary Ann, but she's worried about her daughter feeling obligated. Is that the wimpy female we have produced? I'm obligated to go to bed with him because I had— he paid for a steak? What are we talking about? Well, she was saying that the guy would think— I know the guy would think that, yes. No, no, no, she also said that she'd feel—

she might feel obligated.

Yes, but that's wrong on both. Now, does the guy hope that that happens?

Men live with that hope.

I mean, that's what keeps men going. Of course he has that hope. That's a separate issue. People have a hope when they get a lottery, but nobody who sells a lottery ticket feels morally obligated to produce a winner.

Alrighty, let's go to some more of your calls. We go to Ray in Cleveland, Ohio. Ray, uh, Dennis Prager, thanks for calling.

Hi Dennis, how are you?

Oh, I'm well, thank you, Ray.

Good.

I just, uh, it's kind of funny, I just started listening to talk radio for the first time in my life about a week ago, and I had a conversation with my wife last night about this exact subject. When I met my wife, I was the open the door, pull out the chair, pay for everything when we go out, very masculine kind of things to do. And we were about on our 5th or 6th date, and she looked at me and she said, you're making me feel like an invalid. I don't like— I don't know how to do anything for myself. Like You make me feel like I can't pay for my own bill and I can't open my own door. And she said, and I really would appreciate it if you didn't do it anymore. And I had this dumbfounded look on my face like, are you kidding me? I'm not saying you can't. I'm just saying when I was a kid, my dad told me that women were to be respected and that we were to show them respect by doing the things that we're expected to do.

See, it's so interesting. There's a weakening of women that went along with the weakening of men through feminism. She thinks she is weaker because you hold the door for her.

Well, I, I, I, I—

As if you, as if it implies she can't open doors.

That's exactly right. My mom always told me that women look at it the wrong way. My mom always felt like she was treated like a queen, and the queen is taken care of. She doesn't even put on her own shoes, for goodness' sake. But she is powerful. And that is exactly what's wrong. We got these, these psychologists who are saying, you know, you're, these men are hurting their boys, teaching their boys that, you know, you gotta bring home the bacon, bacon, and you know, you go and shoot deer and drink beer with your friends, and you know, and your wife is there to serve you, and we're harming our kids and we can't do it anymore. So then we go to the opposite extreme, and we say, okay, well, now we kind of have to make a switch. It's like the paradigm switch. I don't understand why there can't be—

Well, it's worth—

did she ever object while you were dating, or this is new?

No, this was, this was while we were dating, and now we've been married, and you know, I'm 26 and we've been married for quite some time now. And she said to me, she goes, you know, I'd really like it if you started doing those things again.

Uh-huh.

Well, that's when they say, you know, a woman is allowed to change her mind, which always cracks me up.

See, that ironically I don't like. I'm not— I'm thrilled she changed her mind, but I don't like when That to me is not a masculine or feminine thing. It is, it is just wrong. You can't excuse either sex for, for not thinking clearly.

I, so I don't, I don't buy that thing. Well, what, you know, it's a women's prerogative.

Remember that, that, that line?

Yeah.

All right, we continue on the, the masculinization or demasculinization of men on the Dennis Prager Show. Prager, it is the male-female hour on the Dennis Prager Show. I have 3 dedicated hours a week Friday I have the hour on happiness, Tuesday the ultimate issues hour, and Wednesday the male-female hour.

And this one is about the, the worry that I have and many women have expressed to me, and I think a lot of men feel this, and that is the, the emasculating of men that, that our society is engaged in, in the sense that the masculine is not valued and, and men have kicking and screaming sometimes, voluntarily at other times, just bought into it. Like 50/50 paying for meals. Well, we both make the same amount, but see, let me explain that to young men listening, what it means if you take out a girl on a date and you pay for it. And I don't care if it's Subway. A masculine man prefers to pay for the whole Subway meal than pay for half of an upscale restaurant meal. That's what a masculine man does. Okay? So, and why? Because when you pay for the meal, what you are saying to that woman is, one day I will be married and I will try to take care of a woman and a family. That's what you are—

that's what you're announcing.

Now, that may not even be possible anymore given the, the, the economy, uh, and I don't mean the specific economy of today, but the, the economic reality of women so often bringing in a good part of the family income. But that doesn't, that doesn't necessarily mean that the man is not masculine. It's the desire to do that that makes a man masculine, not the success in doing that. But if you already start out life, you're 25 and on a date, and you're starting out announcing, I'm not going to take care of you, that's not masculine.

Alrighty, let's, let's go to more of your calls here. And in Pasadena, California, it's Tim.

Hi, Tim.

Dennis Prager.

Dennis, it's a real pleasure to talk to you as always. And I'm surprised that you're surprised that so many men are calling in. I think that this is a huge, huge, huge issue for men because of the way society has devalued us. And the example I would give you is the way that we are devalued on television. When is the last time you saw a masculine man portrayed as a major person on television in a sitcom or whatnot? Or even commercials. It's fashionable these days that the men are the bumbling idiots and the women—

that's right, I agree with you.

I agree. It's, it's what— it's reason number 46 why I consider television and college the single worst influences in American life.

And speaking of, you know, I watched last night Dancing with the Stars. One of the major persons on there is a guy, Jason Taylor, 6'6", 280-pound football player. And here he is doing pirouettes and whatever else they do, dancing, and it just struck me wrong that he's doing that.

I'm with you, I'm with you. Good luck to you, Tim.

That's correct.

San Antonio, Texas.

Ryan. Hello, Ryan. Dennis Prager.

Uh, hi, Dennis. Thanks for taking my call. Uh, I, I, uh, just wanted to, to say that, that from my experience growing up, uh, I believe that the demasculinization of men has had a lot to do with so many people that I know who grew up in single mom households, really without male influence, primarily in the adolescent years where you need to have your dad around.

And it's a very interesting point. It's a very, very interesting point.

The, the, the change from Tom Cruise—

excuse me, from John Wayne to Tom Cruise—

may predate the staggering number of single mom raising boys households.

But, but nevertheless, I am—

that—

let me make clear to single mothers here, it's— this is not an inevitability. There are women who can raise masculine sons. However, it's harder to do it without a masculine male in a boy's life. He needs a masculine male Do you know how many people— I've not— I've never said this, to the best of my knowledge, uh, but, but it's, it—

I think it's, it's, it's so important to make your point here, Ryan.

I get so many letters from men telling me that I am their father figure because they don't have one.

No, I believe it.

I believe it.

And, and I, I think it, it it actually affects the, the romantic issues that a lot of the callers have brought up. Because, you know, growing up and not being able to observe a man and woman interact in a romantic relationship, that's healthy.

That's right.

This is, this is where— that's right, this is what boys need. Boys need male models more than girls need female models. There are things that girls need more than boys. There are things that boys need more than girls. We're not the same, folks. A boy does not know how to be man, a man, without a female model.

Girls, unless obstructed, tend to grow up into women.

It's best if they have a female model. Of course it is. But, but, but, but boys are wilder in nature, and without a very clear image of what it means to be a man, they don't have a clue. I didn't. No man that I know did.

That was a very important call.

Not only do they not have a man at home in many instances because of divorce, and, and tiny number situations is the death of a father, but, uh, and it shouldn't be that way.

That's why I've always said that joint physical custody is so important for children.

And that may be another male-female subject, by the way.

How many women, out of anger at the men or certitude that they're the better parent, isolate the father after a divorce to the terrible detriment of the kids?

But it's not only there, it's also at school. How many kids have a male teacher before high school?

How many?

2% of the population? There are boys growing up in our city who essentially don't interact with a live male, with a live adult male.

Not at home, not at school. You're listening to The Dennis Prager Show. We continue.

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Now back to more of Dennis Prager's timeless wisdom.

All righty, everybody, you're listening to The Dennis Prager Show and the problem of the masculinization of, of the male. in our society, and the 50/50 notion is one of them. The, the, the pretty boy, the chestless, uh, the hairless chest, that— it's just so many indications. And we go to Houston, Texas. Isabel. Hi, Isabel.

Dennis Prager.

Hi, Dennis. Uh, real pleasure to talk to you.

Thank you.

Love your show. Thank you. Um, mostly because you talk about things that matter, and I think this really, really matters, and you just touched on it. I think the combination of boys are in single-parent homes, and typically those are mothers, combined with no male role models in the schools, because in elementary schools there are no men teaching boys. And I think it's a huge problem. And even for my son, who has a you know, a male father at home, a good male role model, I still think it's a problem. Um, and it really worries me a lot.

Yep, it certainly is.

And we need men to step up to the plate to defend this country. Who are we going to turn to?

Yeah, well, there will always be a percentage that, that will, but, but everything conspires. The College emasculates men. There's no masculinity at our colleges.

It's no wonder that a lot of guys even opt out and that now there are more women at colleges.

It's not a masculinizing experience. In fact, it's part of the reason they can think, you know, the elites don't even want the military to recruit there. Their masculinity offends the feminized leadership of our colleges. All right, Phoenix, Arizona, Brent.

Hello, Brent. Dennis Prager.

Hi, Dennis. Thank you for taking my call.

Thank you.

I wanted to call and get your— by the way, good topic today. I wanted to get your response to my dating policy, and because I value your input on this, My dad has always taught me, you know, you pay for when you go out and the man takes charge and pays the bill and whatnot. And I believe that, but my dating policy is I only want to pay for my wife when I go out. And but I'm not married. And so what typically the girl will say is, well, you know, how do you know who to pay for then? And I say, well, I'm not going to pay for you, but What I want you to do is wherever we go, if we go to—

All right, unfortunately I gotta leave it there, but I'm for the guy paying. This has been the Male-Female Hour on the Dennis Prager Show.

This has been Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Visit DennisPrager.com for thousands of hours of Dennis's lectures, courses, and classic radio programs, and to purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles.