Timeless Wisdom: Male/Female Hour: Why You Should Stay Faithful

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I'm old-fashioned. I like two sexes. Yeah, another thing, all of a sudden I don't like being married to what is known as a new woman. I want a wife, not a competitor. Competitor. Competitor. Talk about a bit, this crying in the morning thing, this depression, you know. Let's get that fixed.

That's what men think, isn't it?

What? Unless you've got the answer, unless you can say, "Oh, I know this bloke in Year 6 Road who could fix that," then there's no point bothering. How do you write women so well? I think of a man and I take away reason and accountability. I love him. I love him and I don't care what you think. I love him for the man he wants to be and I love him for the man that he almost is. What do people have rows about? Uh, money, sex, sex, money. He wants, she doesn't want. She wants, he doesn't want. Women have always been a big problem to me, Dr. Fosbend. Are you listening, Doctor? Yes, yes, yes. Go on, go on. This is the Male-Female Hour on the Dennis Prager Show. Hi everybody, I'm Dennis Prager. We talk about men and women and their relations every week at this time, and the purpose is to try to help everybody's relationship, or anybody, everybody who is in one, and to clarify the great difficulties that are often gratuitous, that clarity can fix. You know my belief in clarity. So today I'm going to address a very difficult issue for many couples. And hopefully offer— and this is key here— non-religious, non-moral, not immoral, non-moral, non-morality-based arguments, especially to a man. But of course they would be in different ways applicable because infidelity, sexual infidelity, which is what I'm referring to here, for a husband or a wife are not necessarily driven. Sometimes they are entirely driven by the— for the same reasons, but not necessarily so. So I am going to try, as a guy— and the men know how often I try to explain our sex to women and defend us guys as well, often— but I'm going to try to make an argument or a series of arguments to married men why you should stay faithful. And again, they're not religious-based and they're not morality-based. Of course there are moral reasons. I'm not going to make that argument. Make practical, just practical reasons why a man ought to stay, should stay faithful. I'm talking now about sexual fidelity. There are all forms of infidelity, obviously emotional infidelity, Conversational infidelity there, but today we're talking about the best known one and the one that people mean when they say he cheated on me. They don't generally think he had, you know, a series of conversations with another woman. They say it's meant he had sexual relations with another woman. And the arguments, since guys are often persuaded by good arguments. That's one of the good features of most men. Not all men, but most men can conquer their emotions with a good argument. That's a battle both sexes have their own battles to wage. That's a battle for many women to wage because of the power of their feelings and emotions. Where you could— I don't think one could make that generalization. A woman hears a good argument And that ends her feeling about an issue. But with men, you give a good argument, and many men, not all, but many, I think most men, will rethink an issue. So let me give reason-based, not religion-based, not morality-based arguments why you shouldn't cheat on your wife. The first one is utterly and totally in the realm of common sense pragmatism, and that is it won't work. Now, it almost sounds so prosaic as to be, "What? That's his argument?" Well, first of all, it's not my only argument, but it's a big one, and this means something to men. There are two reasons, by and large, that men will be unfaithful in, in a marriage. One is purely sexual, which is probably the more common one, wherein, as we had for example with a, uh, a well-known politician in New York State— no need to mention names anymore, I don't want to humiliate anybody— but a well-known politician, uh, in, in New York State who for years apparently had been visiting prostitutes with whom he had no emotional connection. It was, it was as clear a sexual matter, a sexual infidelity, as you could get. He was not looking for love. He was looking for sexual excitement. Now, so, well, the other reason that men will stray is the reason that more women will stray. Most women are not going to stray because I just have to have the excitement of another male body. Some do. It's very rare. The vast majority of women who are unfaithful do so because they are falling in love or feel they will fall in love or are spectacularly attracted to another man, and they have— they are not— they do not feel loved or do not feel attended to or do not feel those needs met. With their husband. So, but that can exist for a man. That is, that is the other of the two major reasons a man will be unfaithful, is that he is— there, the emotional, uh, love needs, attentive needs, uh, uh, whatever. Or they're just— he's just constantly berated. I mean, there could be 100 reasons. But it's an unhappy marriage and he's seeking solace and comfort in another woman's arms as a woman would seek solace and comfort in another man's arms. I could address that later, but I want to address first those who do it overwhelmingly for sexual reasons. And let me explain something again because the truths cannot be said too often. This is a lesson I've learned over the years. I used to think if you told the truth once, not the truth, a truth. You didn't have to repeat it. I was very naive. Men are born yearning for sexual variety. That is the way men are made, and the proof that it isn't socialization but it is innate in men is that it is as true for homosexual men as for heterosexual men. Gay men seek many men. Straight men seek many women. That's the way we men are made. That includes your husband. If he denies that, he is either not in touch with himself or he's lying to you because he's afraid to hurt you or afraid that you will get angry at him if you acknowledge that that's his nature too. Are there any men who are exceptions? Yes, there are exceptions to every rule I can think of. There are people who are born with a, with a sixth finger. Or a third hand. But it is fair to generalize that people are born with two hands. It is fair to generalize that men yearn for sexual variety. That's the way we're made, I believe, by God. Others will believe by evolution alone. One can believe by both. That's not my argument either. Now, therefore, for a man It may not be a statement at all about his love for his wife, or his lack of love for his wife, that he will have, if you will, a one-night stand on a business trip to some other city. That is, that's true, but I am arguing against it. I am arguing for sexual fidelity on the grounds that having recognized all this about male nature, guys, It doesn't work because the next day or the next week, certainly, you will yearn for another female body just as much as you yearned for one last week. It doesn't work. You have to put this in your brain. Now remember, I have to repeat this, and I don't, I don't want you to call in with them. I don't want to talk— I'm not talking religion or even morality. Which have obvious arguments against sexual infidelity. I'm not talking— I want to talk simple pragmatism. There are pragmatic arguments, and one is it doesn't work. You will have that thrill that night, and that's it. That is why I— and again, it is not— and everyone who listens to my show, and that's why I'm not even mentioning the name But that politician who for years went to prostitutes, obviously it didn't work. All it did was, was feed his appetite, increase his appetite for more thrills and more bodies. That's all it did. It doesn't work. And women listening may think, Dennis, you think that that's a persuasive argument? I sure do. It absolutely— it's not the only argument, and I have a whole series of more. Now you call either with questions or with your own arguments, and I will give you a lot more. We're just beginning arguments to guys to stay sexually faithful. 1-800-PRAGER-776. 1-800-PRAGER-776.

This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

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Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.

Hi everybody, you're listening to The Dennis Prager Show, the male-female hour. Every week at this time, an hour devoted to relations between men and women, their natures, and so on. Today I am making the argument for guys why not to be sexually unfaithful. Why not to cheat? Why not to cheat on your wife? But I'm doing it without recourse to morality or religion. I mean, one could just say it's wrong. There's— and for many, by the way, that, that should be sufficient. Do not commit adultery, and that's the end of the issue. But I want to give practical reasons and not rely on the moral and religious. And my first argument was it doesn't work. If what you're— if you want sexual variety, and every man does, and that, as I said, it's true for gay and straight, which proves it's not socially induced, it's natural to us, to us men. If you want sexual variety, please know that if you have it When I say it won't work, what I'm saying is that you will just want more. You, you won't fill that need. It seems that way, but it does— it doesn't work that way. Let me take a call on that, and then I have— I want to get to the— to some of the other reasons as well. But that, that's about as pragmatic as you can get, and I wanted to give you practical reasons. We go to Portland, Oregon, and Jim. Hi, Jim. Dennis Prager. Thanks for calling.

Hey, first-time caller, thanks for having me.

Thank you.

Uh, I think you're probably prepped on what my premise was. I was going to take your argument that, uh, that it doesn't work and say, well, he— my thought is that it, uh, he stayed married for all this time. It worked until he got caught, at least for him.

You mean the New York State politician?

You're unnamed one, correct?

Yeah.

I don't know that he's still married or not, but, uh, I thought he was.

No, no, I believe he is still married, and I hope he is still married. Uh, that's a separate issue, which I will do on another male-female hour should it lead to the end of a marriage, and I always pray that it doesn't, and it shouldn't necessarily, by the way. But what it didn't work— what I mean by work, and it's a very good challenge, Jim, what I mean by work is it didn't fill his sexual desire needs. In other words, he went to have another female body, which is a prostitute, and then just wanted more.

Well, and I, I think the, the premise I see is, uh, if you put it in that context, is it a one-time-only deal? And if you do it more than once, it doesn't work? My, my thought was he's unhappy in his sexual relationship with his wife, assuming that, given the benefit of the doubt, that, that it isn't some kind of strange, uh—

no, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

It worked. It worked. It kept him married, in other words, meaning Oh yeah, well, an occasional liaison, uh, kept him in a sexually unfulfilled marriage. Okay, I'm assuming he really loves his wife.

All right, now that's, that's a very interesting, uh, argument. That's a very interesting argument. If Dennis, if you're only talking the pragmatic, what about a guy, uh, who is, has a sexually unfulfilled marriage? His wife is, is is never in the mood. By the way, that we've talked about, my argument on that was mood should never determine whether or not you have relations. The opposite of what 98% of people believe, or 98% of women at least. The mood doesn't determine whether you go to work, it doesn't determine whether you wake up with your baby in the middle of the night when it's crying, it shouldn't determine whether or not you make love to your husband. That's another, we've done that, we'll do it again. But, well Dennis, maybe it just helped him stay in his marriage. I find that largely untenable, folks. First of all, if there is that problem, you confront it. Honey, we have no sex. This is a real problem. It's gonna lead to the demise of the marriage. I mean, then that, that one has to be that direct. And we're going to a therapist, or, or we, uh, we, we have a, uh, a physical love life now. I mean, like in the next hour, if necessary, we'll go to a hotel, motel. Uh, you, you don't solve the problem by going for other bodies. That it doesn't solve the problem. Oh, I have a terrific relationship with my wife and I sleep with other women regularly. Something— I'm missing something, am I? I don't believe it. We just— we have this great thing worked out, or at least I have it worked out, which brings me to reason number 2 why it doesn't work. Because you're hiding such a big part of yourself from your spouse. What kind of marriage is that where you have this extraordinarily large dark room that your spouse can't enter? And I want to talk about dark rooms, dark boxes, on another occasion. It's a very big issue, both for the Happiness Hour and the Male-Female Hour. Oh, I mean, you see, Here is a rule that's true not just for your wife and/or husband, it's true for your friends. The more you hide, the less close you are. It is as simple as that. And I mean as simple as that. There's no exception to what I just said that I am aware of. If you hide one, one thing, you are one thing less close. You hide two things, you are two things less close to any person in your life. That is the way it works. That is why I believe in absolute openness to your best friends and to your spouse, who should be your best friend, your best best. And the thought that you are sleeping with other women but otherwise have a terrific relationship is a definition of terrific relationship that leaves me perplexed, shall we say. It's not a terrific relationship. It just isn't. I mean, what— if anybody knows, it's a man who knows how important the sexual component is. So to say we have a great relationship except that I go to other women for sex, it's It doesn't sound feasible to me, and it means that you are hiding a large part of your life. This New York State politician, uh, I mean, do you realize the double life he led? Frankly, if I were his wife— and I'm not saying she should divorce him, I don't like the mockery of women who stand by their public husbands, uh, after infidelity and say, 'I still love him.' I, I don't— I've never mocked those women. I don't mock those women in my heart. I think the mockers are mean, mean people. I think you'll have to answer for your mockery before God. That's how mean-spirited I believe that is. But I think the hardest part is not even the sex, it's the double life. Who was I talking to in bed every night? Who was the father of— who are you? I don't know who you are. I thought I knew you. That's what's so scary, more so than even the sex. So that's reason number 2, the large dark box of your life hidden from your spouse if you are unfaithful. We continue on the Male-Female Hour, 1-800-PRAGER-776.

This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

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Now back to more of Dennis Prager's timeless wisdom.

You're listening to The Dennis Prager Show. As you will hear from some of the callers, this is, by the way, the male-female hour. Which more than any other hour, I suspect, treads on very, very sensitive ground. And I am aware of that, and that is one of the reasons that I, I do keep most moral judgments out of this, out of this hour. I am not sitting here— I'm talking this hour, if you're just tuning in, I'm talking to men about arguments, and you know how often I have addressed specific items with difficulty to women, but this is addressed to men on the issue of fidelity. And I am addressing the non-moral reasons, the non-religious reasons to stay faithful. Especially if the primary drive is sexual. And my arguments were, A, it doesn't work. It doesn't relieve your sexual frustration. You will just want the next episode to even be sooner because of its excitement. With the next extramarital episode I'm talking about. And B, the hole that it makes in your intimacy. The hole may not be the best analogy or best metaphor. The wall that is built up because you've created a black box of living another life. Okay, but nevertheless, there were questions like the following from an anonymous man in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Anonymous, this is Dennis Prager. Thank you for calling, Dennis.

Um, sometimes I wonder if people who have not been involved with extramarital affairs can have the compassion and understanding of people who are involved. Not every affair is about sex.

Agreed. That's why I was very careful to say I'm only addressing that. I will address the other, but you've called, so I'm letting, I'm letting you address it, even though that was part 2.

There's 2 separate items here with men who have affairs. There are those men who go out and have one-night stands, which is dangerous, reckless. And then there are those people who look for uncomplicated passion and romance because things are just out of control at home, or they're not in a financial or emotional situation to leave the house. That's not saying it as an excuse. There are just situations where you're not going to rectify or correct your issues at home, and not that having uncomplicated romance outside of the marriage is going to fester itself to solve any of your problems at home. In some ways, it can deter you from solving your problems at home if you have that viable source where you can find uncomplicated romance, because when you date these people that you're involved in It's always a date. It's always fun. It's always great. You're always going somewhere. You're not dealing with day-to-day issues.

So which— so I'm not quite certain. I assume you're talking about yourself.

Well, we weren't talking about you.

Fair enough. And you're not— well, I know that, but I thought— what, we're not talking about your friends or in the abstract? That's fine. And look, I, I, I'm— the only reason I say it is because You have firsthand expertise, as it were, in this. So I have a question to ask you. If this does express your current situation, A, have you confronted your wife about how bad your marriage is?

Absolutely, on an ongoing basis.

And her response?

Sometimes it gets verbally in conflicts. Sometimes you realize that counseling may not help, that people don't make changes. You really have to look at what a person's gone through in their personal life to say, I've had it, this is— there's got to be something above and beyond this.

Well, well, all right, the reason that I ask is your first duty is to try to to make your marriage better. Have you tried? You've tried?

Yes.

Why? Is it hopeless?

People lose interest.

There are— is it hopeless? Is, is it hopeless?

Is it hopeless?

Yeah.

Terminal cancer is hopeless. Okay. Nothing.

Is it— is it— no, that's not true. Is it, is it terminal from, from every perspective? I'll wait for your answer when we come back on The Dennis Prager Show. Dennis Prager here, the Male-Female Hour, and I am presenting this hour arguments to men not based on morality, not based on religion, as to why to stay faithful to their wives. And they're, in other words, therefore pragmatic reasons. The moral and religious speak for themselves. And I recognize, and by the way, I also want, I must now say something that will perhaps disturb some of you. It is certainly not said with any of that intent. I, while I make this case and of course advocate religious values and religious ethics, etc., I do not sit in judgment of everybody who in the micro realm. I sit, I know the amount of pain out there. I, since I was a very young person, I think I was aware of this. This is not a 'I condemn you, you are vile.' That is not my point at all. It is only to make arguments to try to forestall what is usually destructive and rarely constructive. All right, we go back to a man in obviously awful marriage. You're 39, is that right, Anonymous, in Philadelphia?

No, I'm almost 50.

Oh, I don't know why I saw— all right, fine, you're almost 50. Okay, how long are you married?

Almost 20 years.

Okay, uh, I, I, I asked you if you considered your marriage hopeless.

No, there are a lot of factors of, or facets of my marriage that are perfectly fine. It's just that You have to come to the realization at some point where the passion and the romance— and I'm very— I'm deviating in saying that separate from sex— is no longer there. There are many, many women in marriages— and this is not a woman's fault— but there are many women that after they've had a few children lose complete interest in sex.

And that's what's happened in your case?

Years ago, right?

So if you, if you said to your wife, honey, I want to stay together for your sake, my sake, the kids' sake— I assume you obviously you have kids, you just mentioned that— uh, but you've, you, you acknowledge you have lost interest in sex. I have not. I'm going crazy, so I will seek it outside, but I won't fall in love or anything like that. What do you say?

Oh, you don't really discuss that, Dennis.

Oh, no, no, no. But what if you said it?

What if I said it?

Yes.

I don't know, I might be shooting myself if I said it because then I got to deal with legal consequences.

So, so wait a minute, so you're staying together because of the legal consequences of divorce?

Well, I can't, I can't, I don't— first of all, I can't financially afford to leave. Second of all—

well, that was— all right, that's what I just defined. So that's the same thing as legal. Yeah.

Okay. And second Second, I can't leave the house because the house runs itself fine with the children, with that whole aspect. It's just the whole idea of, uh, listen, I would love to have what I have.

Have you ever, have you ever gone to marital counseling?

No.

Well, okay, I'm sitting here and I would like to punch you.

Well, I've tried to do that.

She refuses.

It just never comes together.

I don't understand those words. That's the passive. Okay, let me say a few things because I would like to spend the day talking to Anonymous, but I can't, and I would. All right, uh, I don't buy this, the, uh, she lost the belief, uh, or interest in sex. I don't, I, I don't buy it from the woman. In other words, I don't buy it when a woman says that. I don't care if you've lost interest in sex. What if a guy loses interest in, in making money? I don't buy it. I'm sorry. Get hormonal treatments, get hypnosis, learn how to do it without enjoying it. I don't care, folks. I don't buy that for a nanosecond. Sorry. If a guy came home and said, I have lost interest in earning money, a wife would say, it doesn't matter, darling. We need it. That's how we live. That is how a couple lives. Sex is, is, is, is an oxygen of marriage. So, uh, uh, that's toward that, that his wife. Toward him, how can you accept this and not have marital therapy? I don't, I just don't understand it. So he took the easy way out and sought it outside of the house. What a great solution. Didn't he sound like a happy man, Alan? That guy radiated joy. I really worked it out. He is a living proof of what I'm saying. It doesn't work. And none of this— and I'm not here as a moral judge, that is not my point— but you haven't Every couple, you have an obligation to try to make it work. By the way, that's part of the reason I do believe in divorce, that if you try and you try and you try and it truly fails and, and, and, uh, and, uh, it is not, it is not right, and there is, there is provision for it, at least in most, in most religious traditions and certainly in all secular ones. But my God, you got to make every effort. That's another theme for another time we have a male here. You know, she has lost interest. It's amazing how cavalierly some people will offer that. I lost interest. Okay. Well, you know, if you really lost interest and you act on it, I don't care if you've lost— you see, I'm a behaviorist. I don't care if you've lost interest. I care how you act. Men and women are different. We owe each other certain behaviors even if we don't have interest. Most men do not have interest in flowers, to give a much— a trivial example of it, but compared. I'll summarize these reasons when I come back. Try to get a call in as well. The, uh, the block that is put up That when you hide your other life, it just goes from bad to worse in most cases, in 99%. There is 1% I can imagine where that is not the case. And I have to say that to be honest. Remember, first tell the truth, then give your opinion. We return on the Male-Female Hour on the Dennis Prager Show.

This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

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Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.

It's the male-female hour on the Dennis Prager Show. Time flies when you're having fun. That, that was somewhat of a dark humor. It goes fast when it's interesting. I can't say fun has been the dominant emotion this past hour, given the intensity of certainly the anonymous call from Philadelphia and the subject itself, which is so, so difficult. I've been trying to present some non-morality-based, non-religion-based arguments to men to stay faithful. And when it is primarily sexual, the straying is— I have my strongest argument. Guys, it doesn't work. You're just going to want to stray more. Whatever your sexual frustration or ache for another, another body, you'll have the other body, and the next day you are back at ground zero. In fact, worse, because now having broken the taboo, it'll make it that much more enticing to do it again. So it's a very bad answer to the problem of seeking sexual excitement. Obviously the place to find it, best place, is within marriage. And that is a problem. That's why I've addressed it on a number of the shows of the Male-Female Hour, and that's why I beg women to understand how important this is to men, even if it is not as important to them. What should be important in a marriage is what is important to the marriage more than what is just important to you. So we will address that more. The other is that it creates a barrier between you and your wife that must, must hurt the marriage. It has to, because all intimacy— and this includes same-sex intimacy with friends— all intimacy is openness. And if you start hiding things— and listen, it'd be true if you started hiding what you're spending money on. It's not just if you were hiding an affair, or even, you know, not an affair, just prostitution. What you hide means you trust less. If you trusted, you would reveal it. Hiding only comes from not trusting, or, or the certitude that it would be disastrous. But in any event, hiding creates the barrier. When there are barriers, you don't have a good relationship. I mean, this is elementary, but it needs to be said nevertheless. Then there is one other thing too. I— and this would go to the Happiness Hour more than anything else— personally Peace of mind is to me worth more than everything, and it is impossible to have inner peace if you're fooling around. It's impossible. Whether justified, not justified, angry, not angry, whatever, you can't. The price is too great. Fix the marriage. If it's unfixable and if you made every effort, yes, I do believe that divorce has to be an option. Life is messy. This is Dennis Prager. I would love to get your emails. You're listening to The Dennis Prager Show.

This has been Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Visit DennisPrager.com for thousands of hours of Dennis's lectures, courses, and classic radio programs and to purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles.

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