Timeless Wisdom: Men's Sexual Nature (Part 6) - Pornography: What Is It and Why Men Use It - Part 2

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Argument number 3 against pornography. Argument 3 is that it's addictive. It is. So is alcohol, so is television, so are cigarettes. To the addict. Alcohol is addictive is correct, but it's not the end of the sentence. It's addictive to alcoholics. If you are an alcoholic, you should never have a drink. If you are a porno addict, you should never look at a porno picture. Most people can drink and not be addicted, and most people can look— most men can look at porn and not be addicted. That's the way it goes. The fact that some are addicts does not mean that it is always addictive, any more than it's true for alcohol or any of the other things. People are addicted to sugar. People are addicted to a whole host of things. To the person who is an addict, I strongly suggest go cold turkey. Don't even get, and I'm serious, Victoria's Secret catalog. In fact, I will tell you something. A dear friend of mine who was an Orthodox rabbi, not because of any addiction, but because of his religiosity, and he believes, as many deeply religious people do, that lusting after anyone but a wife is wrong, if not sinful, but wrong and undesirable. Has his wife tear out the broads before he reads the paper. I do not laugh at that. I understand it. He's being very honest with himself. But I want you to understand that for the addict, it's not just Penthouse and, and, and, and, uh, what do I have, what's Flint's thing? Hustler. I can't believe that. Hustler. It's not just that. It is, uh, it's, it's, it's It's broads. It triggers off a need to keep looking more, looking more, looking more, looking more. So the problem is hardly only in pornography. But my heart goes out to the addict. I am a believer in moderate vice. I believe moderation. I don't seek to produce saints. After the Holocaust, and after Gulag, and after Cambodia, and after Rwanda, I don't have any desire to create saints. That's others' job. I want to produce non-murderers, non-torturers, non-rapists, just basically decent people who struggle with life, and sometimes gamble, and sometimes look at porn, and sometimes drink, I'll be very happy to live in such a world, and so would all of you, where we didn't have the horrors that I just described. Objection number 4 is that it is a function of misogyny, that it is inherently misogynistic, means hating of women. This is another one of these declarations that has no basis. It's just a declaration, and people like to say it. "Oh, it's misogynist." Why is it misogynist? Is gay porn misanthropic? Right? If that's misogyny, then that's misanthropy. Then gays who look at gay men for sexual stimulation are misanthropes. But the idea is preposterous. What does it have to do with misogyny? One loves women less because one likes to see women nude? That's what it means. But that's absurd. It's just, on the face of it, it's just absurd. It's just that we're so scared of it, and I understand why people are scared of it, it's why there's so many sessions on this. I understand that. But it doesn't make sense. It's just not true. Number 5, and this is— it's related: it leads men to regard women as less than fully human. It sounds good, it's not true. The, uh, again, the fact that one can live with two facts, human and sex object, they are both livable with. Now, a woman who only portrays herself as a sex object will be regarded primarily as such by a man. That is correct. I taught this to young women at the college institute I used to direct. Summer college sessions of 4 weeks, students would come who were 18 to 23 years old, and I'll never forget, I met with every one of them, there were about 80 a session, I met with every one of them for an hour privately aside from any other course, but privately for an hour. Well, there was one young woman at the place who was very well endowed, an attractive young woman and very well endowed, and she knew it. And she was one of the youngest, so she was really just feeling her oats sexually. And she wore the skimpiest, tightest, and most revealing stuff she could find. So during our session together, I asked her, "How are you enjoying the summer?" and so on. She says, "Okay." And I said, "Well, Good, good. Any issues that you want to raise with me? Well, you know, some of the guys, they treat me like a sex object. So I said, gee, can you possibly think why they might be doing that? And she said, no. I said, well, let me tell you. Because of what you're wearing. You're portraying yourself as a sex object, and that's how they're responding. Men see cleavage when you show cleavage. There are times to do it, and every woman knows there are times to do it. Absolutely. But at least a woman should be honest. If I portray cleavage, he'll see cleavage. He will not see my thoughts on medieval literature. He just— that will not be the first question that comes to his mind. I wonder what she feels about, uh, about the sonnets as compared to the plays that Shakespeare wrote. He will think, "Ooh, what a pear." That's what he'll think. So that's it. So it's up to you. The woman has that power to shape the way the man sees her. If she's naked, he sees her as a sex object. That's correct. So what? What does that mean? What is the terror in that? There are times when it's okay, times when it's not okay. End of issue. But it hardly leads one to regard women as a statement of humanity is less human. It's not true. Not in a healthy, normal male, does it. Are there unhealthy males? Oh God, there are. There are even unhealthy females, but that's another course that we'll talk about. Of course there are. But that's a separate subject. Does gay porn lead to a man viewing men as less than human? I keep going back to homosexual men because it's a mirror image. Do homosexual men who look at naked men regard men as less than human? Of course not! It would never occur to us to think that. But all of a sudden we make these declarations about how men see women because they will see them as sex objects. Now, it's true, if the only link a man has to women is through naked pictures, of course he's not going to see them as anything but sex objects. That's right, that's why I think I benefited from a co-ed school. I think I did benefit. I didn't have sisters, and so I didn't grow up with girls to, you know, to relate to on an everyday basis. It was good to have them in school. But that's not easily answered. Men need to see women as more than sex objects, but pornography is not the problem. The problem is their nature and how we deal with it. That's one of the reasons it's wonderful that they marry, because then he relates to a woman constantly in every facet of her humanity, not just her sexuality. Number what, 6? Is that what I'm up to? The objections to it? Anybody counting? 6? That it is a substitute for real love. That a man will use pornography, masturbation, as a substitute for making love to a real woman. This is a danger, it can happen. Absolutely correct. That it can happen doesn't mean it always does or even usually does. It can happen. And if it does, it's bad. That's true. I don't mean morally bad. It's bad. It could even be morally bad if it means neglecting one's wife. Absolutely. But I came up with a line last week in regard to this that I would like to repeat. More often than pornography is a substitute for monogamy, It is much more often a substitute for adultery. That's when he has these other women that he's lusting for in his fantasy world. Sounds to me like a pretty, um, not, um, innocuous way to deal with, uh, remember that was one of the things from last week, among the ways to deal with this monster of the male sexual nature. Okay, now one might say it's not, that's just not good, it's not acceptable. And fine, and if you live that way, more power to you. Absolutely, I respect that. I just want people to understand that one can, in fact, love one's wife, make love to one's wife, and have this fantasy realm. That's what I told you I read as a kid, which was unbelievable to me. Men have two sexual lives: one with their wife, and one in their head. And that's the way it is. And it's no big deal. And grown-ups can handle news that isn't romantic. Would it be better the romantic way, the way that woman described her ideal man, is all this virile and lusty and da da da, and only her? Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't. How do you know? That means a man would be a woman. Women don't want women. Women want men. They think they want women. They test men to see whether they'll in fact become like a woman. But, uh, and most, or a lot, fail. But, um, it's good to stay a man. And control yourself. There's nothing more— I learned a fascinating thing, in fact. I did a show, I had a TV show. What is it— it's very obvious what men find sexy. That's very simple. What do women find sexy? It was very interesting. What do women— or actually, I didn't even ask that. What do women find masculine? That's what it was. And it was very interesting. I didn't ask the under-25s. Under-25s look at butts and this and that. Under-25s, it's not even worth asking. But 25-year-old women and over. I asked a woman over 25— that's a woman, not a girl— what is masculine? And it was very interesting. I did this on the radio and on TV, and the overwhelming response— and I couldn't make this up because I never would have predicted it— was commitment, responsibility. Women love men who are responsible. Am I right? Is that fair? A lot of women are nodding as I say this. It's a very interesting thing. That may be part of the reason that married men are very often desirable, because they show— there is almost a masculine thing. See, if a man stays male, stays lustful, and stays monogamous and takes care of children, that's very masculine to a woman. It's masculine to me as a man. That's what I thought was masculine. Learn how to control yourself, but don't give up your, your manhood. Control myself doesn't mean become a female. It means control myself, my male self.

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The final argument against pornography is, uh, to me the only really, uh, a true one that I don't— that I don't have a good answer to. This will interest you, I suspect. The women who pose are debased. That's a tough one. Not women in general, that's baloney, that's nonsense. I don't have an answer to this because there are data in both directions, so I don't know. That's why I said in some arenas it's obvious, like, you know, bestiality, for example, or a gangbang. The woman who enacts a gangbang, I just have to believe there is some debasement there, but, you know, I don't know. All I can tell you is, here are the arguments on both sides, okay? The argument that it is debasing and the argument that it isn't. The argument that it is: the human being, and especially the female, is by nature modest. I think women have to learn not to be modest. Men are not by nature modest. Did you ever raise a boy? They would go with their gazikko hanging out as much as you could possibly allow them to. To. "Put it back in" is the most common statement made to a little boy. We don't all need to see it. It's beautiful, it's wonderful, but, you know, Yankee Stadium doesn't really need to see it. That is what boys are not by nature modest. It's out there and they want the world to see it, and if they can't see it, then they'll see their spear, or their gun, or their— the fins on the late '50s Cadillacs, whatever phallic symbol can be. Alright? So males have to learn modesty. Females do not walk around showing their genitals off. First, they're hidden. They're hidden by nature. Nature has already hidden the female genitalia while the male's is exposed. As though there is a lot of meaning to that fact. It's not just coincidental. So I believe that the female, by nature, does not readily expose herself to the public. If that— there are no women flashers. In all of the literature, I have never come across women who wear trench coats who show off their pubic hair to little children or others. Okay? You're laughing correctly. It's— the idea is preposterous. It's not a female perversion even. Even when females are perverted, they don't do that. But men are dying to show themselves off. It's not an issue. "Hey, look at me!" You know. This is— men have to be taught modesty. If I am right about that supposition, and Wendy Shalit has written this very interesting book on the naturalness of female modesty, then something has to have happened to get a woman to pose. I don't mean necessarily pose in a very stylish way in soft porn, certainly not Victoria's Secret, where her breasts and her genitalia and pubic hair are covered. But even the softer nude of Playboy, although it's tough, but with legs spread, and I'm sorry to be graphic, that's really where the line is drawn between hardcore and softercore, where genitals are exposed. I have to believe that something happened to enable her to do that. Not necessarily childhood trauma, but could be. Maybe just aching for money. The ache was so great that it was worth doing it. And maybe I'm wrong, and I'm willing to be wrong, because after all, I've been making the case that pornography is not evil. But if I am right about this, then there is this one moral element to pornography that, if one is honest with oneself, one has to take into account. I have interviewed strippers, I have interviewed porn actresses, and it is a very mixed bag. It is tempting to think that they all were sexually molested as children. It is not the case, at least from what I could gather. Some were, but a lot of women were, unfortunately. A lot of girls are, a lot of boys are. Sadly. So some are, and for some it sends them into unhealthy realms. In other cases, it's the money. A lot of them have said to me, listen— oh, and here is, by the way, my proof on the modesty. Every stripper I ever interviewed, and I would say it's about, it's not 100, 6 All 6 that I have interviewed, maybe it's 10, I'm serious, because I had them on the TV show, I have done it in strip joints, so I don't know, it's about 10 I guess. Everyone found it incredibly hard the first time. That was a giveaway to me. The most easygoing with showing her body, and I mean all of her body, to total strangers, said the first time was awful. I had to drink myself practically drunk. They had to push me out there. And so that tells me it's not natural. Something very powerful had to be overcome in order to do it. But they say, you know what? So I say, "Well, then why'd you do it? Were you molested as a kid?" "No, but frankly, $500 to $1,000 a night beats what I get as a secretary, and I have a kid to support," or, "Hey, I want a great car, and I want a house." So, I'm just explaining the complexity of all of this. On the other hand, Today, in today's society, in the Western world, posing nude is so unstigmatized, and so rewarded with fame and money, and suitors. Listen, after all, my Orthodox Jewish bachelor wanted, after all, a bunny, right? I mean, think about it, it's fascinating, that fantasy. How many men would really, how many even traditional men, would in fact reject the thought of marrying somebody who had posed for Playboy or for another magazine? Not many. I mean, they would say, "Look, I want you to change your life." Fine. And for some, it's downright alluring. "Hey, I'm dating Miss May. Am I great or what?" Well, Miss May knows that. I'll never forget, this was just mind-blowing to me. Me in my thinking this stuff through. I'll never forget, this must be 20 years ago, in front of Junior's Delicatessen on Westwood Boulevard and Pico Boulevard. I used to go there every day for breakfast when I lived in the city. One day I'm coming out and I see people lined up getting autographs. I ask who it is. and it's Miss April, I don't know what month it was, but Miss Whatever of Playboy. First, I'll tell you one interesting reaction I had when I looked over. There were two women behind the table. I saw the women prior to I knew what was going on. Nothing special, and I had no reaction. I thought two women, maybe they were selling, you know, new household wares. I didn't know. Then they said, oh, Miss April's there. And then I didn't even know which one was Miss April. It was Miss April and a friend, which shows the power of photography and whatever they could manipulate and draw. I just want the women here to know that. The reason that you don't look like Miss April is because Miss April doesn't look like Miss April. I just want you to know that. It's very important important for women to know that, okay? It's very important. But, so that was one interesting, but the other one was men were going over to her with her centerfold and she was autographing like by her pubic hair. And I'm blown away, you know, like, oh, could you sign right here? You know, on my pubic hair? You know, like nothing. It's just like a non-issue. You know, and it was so— so obviously at a given point, it becomes a non-issue to these women, and it's just a vehicle to stardom. I mean, I did a show on this which got me a lot of, I wouldn't say enemies, but people who disliked me. Sharon Stone just testified at the United Nations. Sharon Stone belongs testifying I'm testifying at the UN. Like I should be giving a talk on neonatology. Okay? Neonatal surgery on the spinal columns of embryos. Okay? I didn't earn the right to give that lecture because I don't know anything about it. Why is she famous? In large part it is Basic Instinct, the scene where she spreads her legs with with no underwear on. Now, I'm not judging that scene. I'm giving a whole thing here about— I'm not judging this particular issue. But what is the message? The message is spread your legs, testify at the UN. That is the message that really is sent here. This is not a— she may be brilliant, but we don't— that's not why she was there. She's famous for these scenes. So, maybe I'm wrong, you know, maybe they're not debased. Maybe it is, "My God, pose for Playboy? Go on a major movie and show myself? Where do I line up? Where can I pay to get this exposure?" Literally. So I therefore have given you two arguments I don't have that answer. So even on the one issue, That does render this moral problem— there is another final problem which I'm going to deal with next week, the religious problem of holiness, and that's a very real one. I'm going to talk about that next week. I'm talking here from a humanistic standpoint.

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Now back to more of Dennis Prager's timeless wisdom.

Okay, so two final, uh, thoughts, and then I'll open up to, um, to your questions and comments. We are living in an age of heterophobia. America may well have been homophobic a generation ago, but today it is heterophobic. I think a major part of the public onslaught against heterosexual pornography, because it's not against homosexual pornography, is that there is a real anger at the male, at male sexuality. And, you know, the radical feminists, and they are very famous, well-paid, and they lecture everywhere, one of them is a dean of a major law school, Catharine MacKinnon. They actually believe that sexual intercourse, all heterosexual intercourse, is essentially rape. That the idea that a woman— let me read to you. According to Dworkin, that's Andrea Dworkin, women who say they enjoy heterosexual lovemaking are collaborators. More base in their collaboration than other collaborators have ever been, experiencing pleasure in their own inferiority, calling intercourse freedom. According to MacKinnon, who has lectured at Harvard, Yale, I mean every— she is honored as one of the seminal thinkers in male-female relations and on feminism. Feminism sees, according to MacKinnon, feminism, quote, sees sexuality as a social sphere of male power of which forced sex is paradigmatic. Paradigmatic, meaning the archetype, typical, the real, the typical example. McKinnon's observations about heterosexual intercourse include the following: "If there is no inequality, no violation, no dominance, no force, there is no sexual arousal." "A man is incapable of being aroused," she says, "if there is no inequality, no violation, no dominance, and no force." Now, if this were said about any other group, the person would be called a bigot. But if you say it about men, you are a professor of law at the University of Michigan Law School. Okay? There is, there is heterophobia today. In fact, a woman, who was great, University of Massachusetts, I interviewed her on the radio. Daphne Pattai, a professor of, actually, Portuguese literature, as it happens. But she wrote a book, "Heterophobia." And that's a very important word. There is a real anger at male sexuality today. And this is what, um, this is, uh, I'll give you the latest example. I talked about it on the radio, uh, just yesterday, of the Harvard, uh, dean who was, uh, demoted, who was fired from his position because pornographic images were found on his computer. He didn't play with any kids. He wasn't unfaithful to his wife. He had images. So male heterosexual fantasy is now a crime at Harvard. It's remarkable. Now, of course, they say, "Well, he used a Harvard computer." Oh, I see. Whereas had he used the Harvard computer to download stamp collecting information, he would have Yes, he was the head of the Divinity School, but the Divinity School is not, is not a clerical school. It is not a seminary. It has the word divinity, but it should be Harvard School of Religion. They teach religion. There are atheists who study there. If he were dismissed as a Lutheran minister, that's the Lutheran Church's business. Religions can set their own rules. If a minister masturbates and we find out, he's out of business. Their business. Okay, fine, that's their prerogative. But Harvard, Harvard's chief minister, the minister, the clergy in charge, the chief clergyman of the place is a practicing homosexual. I am not saying that's wrong, but it is okay to have— I'm not saying the man does, but to Harvard, it is okay to have multiple lovers of the same sex or opposite sex but not to have images of women on your computer. And this is all political correctness. What is politically correct? Male sexuality is dirty. That's what's politically correct. It's not politically correct to say— had he been a gay, there is no doubt in my mind, if there were images of naked men on his computer, there wouldn't have been a peep from Harvard, because they would have been called homophobic if they attacked him. Heterophobia is dominant. Male sexuality, for whatever reason, and I don't know the reason, it's an interesting, interesting, and I don't know the origins. I understand that it is problematic, that's why we've given all this time to this issue. But it's an easy target, it certainly is, and Males are too nice not to fight back, or too cowed by this. If I had that on my computer and I were that dean, I would have challenged Harvard. I want to know exactly what is the wrong here that I am being demoted. I want to know since when the fantasy life of a person is reason now. I mean, we were told to leave the president alone for his real life, and Harvard fires a man for his fantasy life. That's unbelievable. And I'll bet the same people at Harvard who defended the president are the ones who think this guy should be fired. So it's a very, uh, we live in a very, um, confused time.

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Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.

My final thought on this, and next week I'll sum it all up with the question of religion and all of this. Not just religion, but I'm also going to talk about adultery next week, and what is adultery is almost as complex— it's probably actually far more complex than what is pornography. You may think it's simple, and I'll show you how complex it is. But I just summarize it by saying, please remember What is it we really want a man to be? In light of having that clarity of vision, then we can take our positions on all of these things. But male sexuality is not a monster. It is only a monster if we make it a monster. It is a part of being a man. It's okay. It's tough, but there are tough parts of being a woman. There are tough— it's tough. There's an old Yiddish saying, schwer zu sein a Yid. It's tough to be a Jew. As I got older, I realized that while it was true, you could really drop a Yid. Shver tsuzayn. It's difficult to be, period. Thank you very much.

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