Timeless Wisdom: Ultimate Issues Hour: Are We All of the Same Species?

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Hey everybody, this is the Ultimate Issues Hour on the Dennis Prager Show. Each week at this time, I devote the hour to some great overwhelming issue. And you can't get greater or more overwhelming than the question of evil. And there are so many aspects to this question. Let me tell you what it isn't. It's a separate subject, one we've covered and we'll cover again, I promise. And you heard it in this, the famous introduction to the Ultimate Issues Hour that I— that we've just played. And I'm not— so I'm not discussing the why there is evil in light of God's existence. That's the problem. It's called theodicy. How do you justify God and evil. That's not my question. My question today is about evil specifically, and I'm going to get letters and calls. So let me tell you now, what do I mean by evil? I'll tell you. Here's an example, okay? I'll tell you what I mean by evil. There is a movie that is titled Slumdog Millionaire. It is a British movie. It is made in India with Indian actors. And it is a powerful film, and it is about kids who are orphaned, parents killed. Usually the parents are killed in some violence that has taken place in some internecine warfare or, or just pogrom-type activity in India. Anyway, it is about 2 brothers in particular and a girl that one of the brothers loves from childhood. But here is an example of evil. There is a depiction of a man who walks around, a handsome-looking man who walks around and who sees orphans on the street, homeless, and he offers them Coca-Cola on a hot day, and they come with him and he treats them beautifully in the beginning. And gradually you come to see what a sadist, or at least what a totally cruel man he is. And among the things that he does is randomly take some of the children and he pours boiling oil into their eyes to blind them. And that way they can get double the money when they beg. There was a lot of child begging in India. Parenthetically, you know what a big fan I am of India. I took my listeners on a cruise there, and I've been there myself 4 times and enjoy it thoroughly. It's a very, very fascinating country to me. Be that as it may, that's evil, where you burn out a children's eyes so that you can collect more money using them as blind beggars. Do we all agree that that's evil? Okay, Roy is dissenting. He's not certain, but beyond Roy, most human beings would in fact acknowledge that. I was about to take out one of his eyes and then ask him. In any event, that's pretty obvious, all right? I purposely chose— I didn't choose a political evil so that nobody would think I have a political agenda here. I have no political agenda. I have a moral agenda. In fact, I always have a moral agenda, just politics is one aspect of it. But in any event, is that clear? So now you know what I mean by real evil. That's real evil. And so the question for us today is, why is there evil? There is so much of it. Why is it there? There are 4 answers that I have, but I want to pose to you a bigger question, one that I have mentioned only in passing, but the Ultimate Issues Hour gives me the opportunity to really flesh it out. I have come to, to a sort of provisional conclusion that there is such a gulf between the decent and the indecent And I mean the decent and the— I don't mean everybody does something indecent in life. I'm not talking about between sinners and non-sinners because there are no non-sinners. I'm talking about the decent and the guy who pours oil into children's eyes, all right? And that. I have come to a tentative conclusion that for all intents and purposes, in other words, not— I'm not talking now biologically, but for all intents and purposes, there are two species of human beings in this: the truly bad and the rest of us. The truly— not even decent and indecent— the truly bad and the rest of us. Let me give you an example, because it doesn't exist anywhere else. It doesn't. Let us say, for example, if you knew somebody who could not stand any food but preferred tree bark, you would say this person is almost like a member of another species. Homo sapiens like meat or ice cream or pizza or whatever food you like, but not tree bark. So if you knew somebody who liked tree bark, or if you knew a group of people, individuals all over the world who preferred tree bark, you would say it's essentially a different species. But we don't have that in food. Yes, there are different culinary tastes. There are places in the world where they like to eat cat But that's cultural. I mean, for all intents and purposes, they like to eat the same food as we do. Everybody likes to eat a living being or a vegetable or a fruit. I mean, that's the way it is. That's what we like around the world. Everybody, or nearly everybody, likes music. Nearly every male, at least, likes watching sports. I mean, we have certain things that are just universal. There is one area of life where there is an absolute thick line of demarcation dividing two groups, and that is on the issue of evil. There really are people who like and love and do hurt others regularly. The existence of those people is a riddle to humanity. Many people will argue it's the work of the devil. Now, I don't happen to believe in that, and I'm not going to argue. We're not having an hour arguing whether there's a devil. It's not my point at all, and I respect those who believe in the devil. I don't laugh at that. I don't happen to believe in it, but I don't laugh at it. I'll tell you why I don't laugh at it. I don't laugh at it because the problem of real evil is so great that it does seem to be that there is a supernatural force of evil operating here. That it does seem that way, where there are people who are, who do things that are so alien to the rest of us. See, let me explain this again, and it needs explanation. And I'm glad you're not calling yet. It means you're listening. I'll tell you soon. I want to take your calls. I want your theories. But I want to bounce these off you first. You see, every one of us basically can understand some evil acts. We don't do them because of conscience, but we can understand them. I understand murder. Every one of you understands murder. Under conditions, you would stop yourself because of conscience, but you can understand where you would want to kill somebody. I have that with slow drivers in the left lane, for example. I totally— I would like to shoot them. I totally understand that. I'm being tongue-in-cheek here, but in truth, everybody understands murder. Everybody understands thievery. And every— who doesn't? A guy robs a bank, you don't understand that, I can't relate to that. Well, you wouldn't do it because you have a conscience, but you can relate to it. But I can't relate to the guy who pours boiling oil on kids' eyes so that they can beg for money at a double rate because they're blind. I can't relate to the torturer. I can't relate to a whole host of— I can't relate to the suicide bomber. That I walk into a group of men, women, and children in a restaurant, none of whom have harmed anybody, and I maim and blow all of them up because God thinks that's good. There is no part of me That's as foreign to me as the man who pours the oil in the kid's eyes. How does this happen? And it almost makes you think that there is a different type of species, that is a division. I'll give you my 4 reasons and I'll take your calls when we come back. 1-800-PRAGER-776, the Ultimate Issues Hour on the Dennis Prager Show.

This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

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Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.

This is a new—

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All right, Dennis Prager here, the Ultimate Issues Hour, 1-800-PRAGER-776. Every week at this hour, I devote the time to some great issue of life, and the, the issue today is one of the biggest that there, uh, that there is in life. Why is there evil? Now, and I don't mean that, you know what, why are there evil people? Not why is there evil? It's important. We all know why there's evil, right? We are made with the freedom of choice. I know that. So don't even call in about that. Why are some people really evil? I don't mean why are there sinners? Everybody's a sinner. So that's not the question at all. Why do some people sometimes do a bad thing? That's not my question. I'm talking about real evil where people commit that, uh, where I mean stories that you, you read and you just shake your head. How could somebody do that? We, we have come to have an answer in our lifetime which has served as our version, the secular 20th century version of the devil. It's called sick. The devil made me do it and he's sick are identical in my eyes. And what they're both saying is we can't answer the question. And I don't mock either response. I just want those who say that he's sick to understand that their answer is not one whit better or more rational than there is a devil who took somebody over. Instead of the devil taking somebody's mind over, sickness took somebody's mind over. So it's, it's the same thing. Sick is, as I said, the modern expression of the term Satan or the devil. So if you believe that, that's fine. I'm not, I'm not here to mock or anything like that. And that may be true. It just may be your, your mind has been warped by Satan or by psychological forces beyond your control, and it ends the issue. You were taken over by sickness, or you were taken over by, by the devil. I'd like to offer you my answers, okay? And they're not the only ones, but I want to hear from you and to add to this, because this is obviously big. By the way, I intend to do a show on why there is good. I consider that to be— and you know, I'm not talking about the good of a mother waking up at night and feeding her child when she'd rather sleep. That's good, of course that's good, but I'm talking about heroically good, just as I'm talking about devilishly bad. But that's for another time. Now, here you go. I would like to give you 5 brief ones, every one of which might get its own Ultimate Issues Hour, but I'll play that by ear. All right, number 1 is a lack of empathy. You do not see yourself in the person that you are hurting. Now, this may not be an explanation, it may just be a description, because it just begs the question, how come some people don't have a sense of empathy. See, when I— and I don't believe that I am any, you know, terrific for this. I'm just explaining how a morally normal person, which I am, reacts to seeing evil or reading about it. When I saw in this film Slumdog Millionaire, the man blinding the children. My first thought was, how could he do this? Doesn't he see himself or his own child, if he has one, in that child? Isn't he realizing how awful that is because if it would happen to him? Apparently not. For whatever reason, there is a disconnect in those who do true evil. In the Manson gang, they did not see in their victims themselves. They were, uh, the, the Nazis saw the Jews as not of the human race, so you could, you could burn children alive. It, it would be like burning an insect. Number 2. A, uh, personal sadism. I joy in watching others suffer. What can I say? I mean, that there's not much more to be said about that, uh, except where does that come from? Number 3, people who believe lies. If you really believed that Blacks were subhuman, then you could enslave them. It's simple as that. But you had to believe a lie that, that, that skin color determined your worth. And so if you believed the lie, then you could act on it. Number 4, seeing oneself as a victim. This is one of the biggest, perhaps the biggest source, at least in our time. Where both individually and collectively you walk around and your primary identity is as a victim. If you think, if your primary identity is, I have been screwed by the world or by others, then you are almost definitely going to do something evil or support evil. Because it gives you a sort of license to do so, and you are so angry at the world you will lash out. The suicide terrorist is first and foremost a believer in his victimhood. And number 5, fathers. It is pretty rare that a— and most Most great evil is done by males. It's hard to imagine, although I'm sure it has happened, that a male who has done great evil was bonded to his father who was a good man. Bonded to a good man father is almost a guarantor of non-evil. All right? There you go. That's a lifetime of thought in 3 minutes on something that I have been preoccupied with since I was a child, and that is how could people hurt others in such awful ways. Of course, people hurt others in ways that, you know, people gossip about others and people will hurt others in the workplace, you know, doing something dishonest, which is inexcusable, but it's not Not in the realm of the evil that troubled me since I am a child. So I will take your additions. I have these 5, and they, um, I think they do a fairly good job of describing why people will do evil. If there's a 6th, I'm very interested to hear from you. You are listening to The Dennis Prager Show, most specifically the Ultimate Issues Hour, and you can write to me through prageradio.com or dennisprager.com. We continue.

This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

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Back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.

You're listening to The Dennis Prager Show. A reminder, by the way, that there is such a thing as Pragertopia, which you find at either of my websites. And through it, at a very, very, very cheap rate, you listen to my show anytime, commercial-free, and in the highest fidelity. It's a great gift to yourself, if there's such a thing as a gift to oneself. It's always a philosophical question. Is there such a thing as a gift to oneself? And certainly a gift to others. Again, it's at PragerTopia, which you click on and you can get all of my shows. I'm sure it doesn't sound humble, but so I'll live with that. I think that most of the hours are worth hearing again and playing for others, etc. So it's PragerTopia. I think we're talking $6.95 a month. Which I was gonna say is the price of a movie, but having just attended movies that cost— one was $12 and one was what, $13? So at half the cost of a movie, of one movie, a whole month of my show. At— how much can I go on with this? At the cost of two slices of pizza. At the cost— All right, my friends, the ultimate issues hour. Why do people commit evil? And I mean real evil. I don't even mean bank robbery. I mean real, real evil. I mean, that's evil, obviously. But I understand that. The money's there and they don't have much of a conscience. Okay. But, uh, Blinding orphans so that you can get them to beg for you, as in this very powerful movie that I described. That, that's what I mean. Suicide bombers where, where the purpose is to maim and kill as many innocent people as possible. These are, these are things that just defy the normal explanation. By the way, let me just say a word here because I see Cindy in Texas Dennis Prager wants to know, do I really have somebody named Roy on the show who really doesn't think that this guy— and everybody here is laughing because poor Roy now has his name maligned around the world. Folks, I have— there are two types of humor that you just have to know. One is dark and the other is male-male. Guys who like each other insult each other. And it was in light of that that I made up this— I saw Roy shaking his head. He was— it was self— what is the word? Self-whatever humor that he was engaged in. Okay, be that as it may, of course, Cindy, there's nobody who works on the Dennis Prager Show who thinks it's okay to blind children so that they can beg for double the money. Not even Roy. That is right, Dave. Dave, do not point at Roy because Cindy might think that he really exists. Cindy, thank you for your sensitivity. Folks, don't worry. Okay, let's go to Dallas, Texas, and John. Hello, John. Dennis Prager.

Hey, Dennis, how are you?

I'm well, thank you.

Good.

I—

my opinion, Dennis, is that I believe that man's genuine, genuine bend is toward depravity, not for good like many humanists believe. And I think a compelling argument for that is look at children. You don't have to teach a child to hurt other children or to lie or to covet their toys. You have to teach a child to tell the truth, to be kind.

I have a different way of phrasing it, John. I say I don't believe that we are born depraved. I believe that we are not born good, and that's where I do differ exactly. And that's the biggest difference I have with the humanists. And the whole social liberal view of the world. But there are a lot of kids who are not born that way, interestingly enough. There are kids— do you have kids?

I do.

How many kids do you have?

I have a 19— well, 18-year-old daughter.

Okay, so maybe it isn't fair to ask because usually one has to have a few kids to see this, but I'm sure you've seen this. There are kids who seem to come out of the womb with a certain kindness and gentleness of soul, and there are kids who come out of the womb, you know, quite hard-bitten and so on. And so it's a mixed bag in that way. But I just modifying what John said, and this is— this was the first subject I ever talked about when I had my own radio show. Are people basically good? By the way, in my favorite of my 4 books, and I'd love all my 4 books, Think a Second Time, which is 40— is it 44 of my essays? One of them is on the nonsense that people are born good and the nonsense that has pervaded Western society believing that. Back in a moment on the Ultimate Issues Hour.

This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

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Now, back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.

This is the Ultimate Issues Hour on the Dennis Prager Show. I'm Dennis Prager. Thanks for being with me. I offered you 5 reasons after a lifetime, a lifetime of reading, thinking, interviewing, and talking to people around the world about the subject of why people do evil. Not why they sin, not why they do bad, but I'm talking real evil. 1-800-PRAGER-776 is the number. And I completely understand why people will just throw up their hands and say the devil or sick, because there is a gulf between the rest of humanity and those who do real evil. Not that there are no members of the rest of humanity who under certain circumstances could could do that evil. That is possible. But I don't buy the notion that everybody is a torturer inside. I don't buy that. I don't buy the notion that somehow I could be persuaded to blind a child so that I get more money from his begging. as I gave the example from Slumdog Millionaire, that powerful film. 1-800-PRAGER-776, and we go to Atlanta, Georgia, and Jim. Hi, Jim. Dennis Prager.

Hey, Dennis.

Hi.

Well, if that's one of those questions, this whole thing is one thing that's kind of fascinating me also, and I've noticed at times there are people who seem to get a weird kind of kick or thrill out of doing evil just because they can.

That's right.

And I don't know if that fits. I was, I was—

that's it. Oh, in other words, not so much because they enjoy it as a sadist, but because they can get away with it. Yeah, I think that's true for, uh, for antisocial acts. I'm not sure it's true for evil. Uh, it's— in other words, you know, there's a I don't know, a kid who will, uh, a kid who will, um, I don't know, let's say throw rocks down from a bridge at a freeway, which isn't— which is evil, uh, but it isn't because of the joy of killing. It is because of the thrill of doing something so wrong. Yeah, so, so Right, but all right, but you're right then. In other words, I'm not taking issue with you. That's a very interesting point, the thrill of the antisocial act.

Yeah.

I think though that that is a very small percentage, and I'm trying to work on the larger percentages.

Okay, I'll mull that some more then.

I'm sorry?

I'll mull that some more.

Oh, okay. A very thoughtful call, Jim. I thank you very much. 1-800-PRAGER-776. And Elizabeth, Bowling Green, Missouri. Hello, Elizabeth. Dennis Prager.

Hello, Mr. Prager. And I actually have two points, but I think I'm going to go with the most important one to your issue here, as I see it.

Yes.

I've worked as a teacher and a substitute teacher, and every so often as teachers, we see the students that I think are the ones that fit the mold you're talking about here, the ones that actually seem seem to be cruel.

Yes.

I'm not talking about the rule breakers.

That's right, the cruel ones. Right.

Yeah, the cruel ones. And I think a problem we have in the school is that the school systems and character education encourage teachers not to say to students, "That is wrong. That is bad. That is cruel. What you're doing is wrong." Instead, we use phrases now as teachers. That's not a very good choice. And so we're encouraging them in their behaviors not to feel bad because we don't want students to feel bad. We don't want to hurt their self-esteem. We can't guide these students away from a wrong instinct that they may already have.

Boy, you are terrific. That is exactly right. That has been in place since the '60s, '70s. Uh, it's like, uh, you don't mark with a red pencil anymore as a teacher, but a blue pencil. Have you been told that in your school?

Oh yeah, green, purple, blue, because red makes people feel bad. Yes.

I wonder how many people knew about that change. First of all, what's wrong with feeling bad? You know, I just don't— you know, there are times you should feel bad. That's the irony. Elizabeth, your students are lucky. Thank you.

You have a good day, Mr. Prager. Thank you.

Alan, where is Bowling Green, Missouri? Why didn't I ask her? She lives there. Is that pathetic? I let the lady go and I ask Alan, who doesn't— I know. It's on the Mississippi River? Must be nice. Sometimes I want to live in a place like Bowling Green, Missouri. I don't think everybody has that. Anyway, I don't want to get sidetracked, but it's— I wonder How many people in, in urban areas have rural envy every so often? I got— I, I do. You, all of you are nodding your head except for Dave. He didn't know the word envy. Tell— oh, that was it. Rural. Was it rural? Rural got him confused. Yeah, I told you this is what guys do to other guys. This is what we do. All right, let's go to Vineland, New Jersey. Daniel. Hello, Daniel. Dennis Prager.

How you doing, Dennis?

All right, thank you.

I want to tell you that I think you're great.

Thank you, thank you so much.

Um, my suggestion is just that man, um, naturally worships himself. Um, you mentioned like lack of empathy. Yeah, and I, I just see that as, as really just a symptom. In the end, I think— I don't know if you believe in like an end time, you know, the end of the world if you will— but I think in the end we're going to see man ultimately water down all religions and and just worship themselves. And I think that that's what causes extreme evil today.

Oh, I think self-worship is a very real problem. And the truth is, if you don't have God above you, why wouldn't you worship yourself? You are the highest being. And I say this with all respect to atheists, many of whom are wonderful people, but it's very hard. I mean, you could say, well, I don't worship anything, but In a certain sense, that's impossible. Something has to be the highest being, and if there's no God above you, then you're the highest being. Reminds me of that great phrase I once heard about a rich man. So-and-so was a self-made man, and he worships his creator. You're listening to the Dennis Prager Show, the Ultimate Issues Hour.

Preachers and poets and scholars don't know it. Temples and statues and steeples won't show it. If you've got the secret, just try not to blow it. Stay a lucky man, a lucky man. If you found the meaning of the truth in this whole world, you are a lucky man.

Hi everybody, Dennis Prager here. Ultimate Issues Hour on the great riddle of great evil. Not sin, not bad, evil. And I'll tell you this, there is, there is one line, there's a biblical line that I, I, I think of when I, when I think of those who truly do evil. I'm talking about the Charles Manson types, the Nazi types, the the suicide terrorist types, the guy who blinds the kids, orphans, to collect money as they beg as blind kids. That's what I'm talking about here, not bank robbers and the run-of-the-mill criminal who's doing a very bad thing, don't get me wrong, but there's a difference. And I'm thinking of the biblical phrase, and you shall burn out the evil from your midst. There is a certain evil for whom it's just hard to imagine any other response than the burning out of that crowd. I don't know what else can be done. Has Charlie Manson been rehabilitated? I mean, it's a waste of every penny that is spent on this man that he is still alive. It bothers me. It actually bothers me. All righty. And, uh, let's go to, uh, Atlanta again. Got a lot of people in Atlanta thinking about evil. Is there any connection, Bob? Is there a connection between living in Atlanta and thinking about evil?

Well, I came from New York originally, so I don't think so.

Okay, fair enough.

But I got, I got a view that a sixth item for you is power. I think that, uh, and I can give you several examples from, uh, I don't know, Stalin to Vito Genovese to a local gang member.

You know what, you're right. You are right. I, I forgot about that. And I— you are right that the, the yearning for power is so great they will do anything, including vast cruelty, to have it.

And it scares everybody from challenging that power.

Yes, that's, uh, that's the Mao biography I'm reading now. That's exactly what it's about. Who did immense, immensely cruel things. You're good. You are good. Thank you, Bob. John in Ohio, Ben in Sacramento, Jim in Queens, New York, and two other lines whose names are not up yet. I wish I could take your calls. I love reading your emails even if I can't respond. DennisPrager.com or PragerRadio.com. And don't forget Prager Utopia, a way to subscribe to the show for $6.95 a month. That's all it is. And you get the highest, you get the highest quality downloads of the show. DennisPrager.com. Thanks for listening.

This has been Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Visit DennisPrager.com for thousands of hours of Dennis' lectures, courses, and classic radio programs. Call 1-800-710-9410 to purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles.

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