Timeless Wisdom: What Jews and Christians Can Learn From Each Other (Part 1)

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Welcome to Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Hear thousands of hours of Dennis's lectures, courses, and classic radio programs. And to purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles, go to DennisPrager.com.

All right, my friends, here is the way it goes. I debate every cruise whether I should focus on micro or macro. And it has been an ongoing debate. In fact, some groups have started to have fights within them. People, listeners would punch each other over this, over whether it should be— here are the arguments. The micro argument is, come on, we're with you personally, so be personal. We can hear your ideas and do, otherwise we wouldn't be here. We're not masochists, so we would, you know, we would, we hear your ideas. On the air, so microtopics. Then the other argument is, Dennis, this is a world in crisis. We're gonna spend all these days with you and not talk about what's happening in the world? What are you, nuts? And they're both very good arguments. So I, I sometimes I have simply divided them, sometimes concentrated on one and not the other, but I generally find, and Alan agrees except in one arena, stereo, that if I am passionate about a subject, that's the best idea to talk about. However, I do want you to know, and this is in front of Alan— Alan will be with you the week I'm here for a week, and I have to go back and do a show, but Alan is taking the entire trip with you. While he is in Tahiti, I can do a stereo show. There is nothing he can do about it. He can't hear it, he can't do anything. He can give me a dirty look like he is Do you have a comment, Alan? I want to come back to a show. All right, wait a minute. This is a fair thing. I am willing to live with the results. He's getting taller all the time. Very good. I want to vote. You have to vote. You have to vote. And I will not be insulted, nor will Alan. Well, I won't. I don't know about Alan. If I did an hour on my passion for a musical system in your house to bring you the joy of music every day through great stereo components, would you tune out? Raise your hand. Okay. That pretty much ends that. If you, my most loyal of listeners who will go to the other side of the world to be with me will tune out. Well, I mean, that was only— well, how many of you wouldn't tune out? Raise your hands. Okay, how many of you would actually like me to do it?

Yes.

Yes. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. One day. One day. One day. One hour. How about poetry? Is it 5? Print out after you give us all that information? I would print it out.

6.

6.

Could you combine it with poetry?

Well, no, that's today's talk, is Maori poetry. You did know that, that I'm speaking on Maori poetry? Maori, that's the indigenous people of New Zealand. All right, my friends, so let me tell you what I am passionate about, and this is quite serious. Oh, you know, I am curious about something about you. How many of you would consider yourselves actively religious? Raise your hands. How many would not? That way I'll know how many raised their hands the first time. Oh, so it seems like— didn't it seem— it's always disconcerting because it was not— now it's like 50-50. How many of you, uh, let's see, well, that's really what I wanted to know because in light of what I want to talk to you about, and I hope that those of you not actively religious will find this as interesting as the others, I think you will. Let me tell you what's going on in my life vis-à-vis really things that have become clearer to me in the last years, especially since 9/11. 9/11 has had a staggering impact on the world, obviously, and no less on my own thinking. It's almost like all of my life till now has been a preparation for the clarity that 9/11 and post-9/11 brought. And you know where the most? Not in the division with— whoops— not in the division with major parts of the Islamic world. That's obvious. In the division between US and Europe. That has been more clarifying to me than almost anything, and it is a revelation to most Americans, I believe. The rift that exists between the United States and much of the world for that matter, but especially Europe. That being a Western democracy does not mean that you share values beyond that people should be allowed to vote for elections. That's it. And so that, that has been a very major theme in my life since 9/11. But what has really become clear to me are two things. One, the uniqueness of America. And uniqueness, I mean that literally. It is unique. Now you may say, even those who hate it will say it's unique. That's not controversial. Those who hate it think it's unique, and those who love it think it's unique. So that's not, that's not controversial. And one specific element, and I'm not going to talk about the American part now, one specific element, and this is going to be Finally I Know It, because I have said so many times that's going to be my next book. And the reason that I haven't had a next book in, I guess now, 5 years, which is very painful, is not that I don't write a lot. I write a column every single week and even other articles in addition. But it is that I have so many books to write that I get paralyzed on which one I will do first. I'll work, you know, I work on male sexual nature book, then I work on religion book, then I work on America book. And I work, just, it's endless. But now it's clear to me, and in fact I'm writing it in part as my columns each week, and that is the case for Judeo-Christian values. This, uh, and as developed in America, they really have not existed as such anywhere else. I always make the point, which when people hear, they go, they usually think, yeah, that's right, but never thought about it. And that is that there have been many Christian countries, there are many secular countries, but only the United States has called itself Judeo-Christian. That term is not brand new to America. It was used on occasion in Europe, but it is overwhelmingly American. And the Christians who founded America were Judeo-steeped Christians and feel that this way, most of the Christians in this country. In the United States, that it is a Judeo-steeped Christianity, steeped in the Hebrew Testament, steeped in the Hebrews' identification with the Jews. Grafted onto the tree is a very common term that Christians will use to me in speaking about their kinship with the Jews. And it is felt very deeply, of course, by evangelical Protestants. It is also felt by many American Catholics. It is also felt, and I know that many Christians do not consider them exactly Christian, but that's not my argument since I'm outside of that. Mormons feel very, very strongly connected to the Jews. And so any variation on the Christian theme in America has been very Judeo-centered. But I'm not going to speak to you with all of that buildup. I'm not going to speak to you about the Judeo-Christian value issue. I might and I might not. In the course of the cruise together, because I do want to vary the subjects. But I do want to speak to you about a different theme, very much related. I am steeped in both Jewish and Christian life in America, and very few people have this opportunity. I grew up an Orthodox Jew. I went to yeshiva till I was 18. I am to this day I'm one of the 2 or 3 most widely booked lecturers in American Jewish life. I speak to about 60 Jewish communities a year. That's an enormous number. And I've written 2 books on Judaism. I'm a columnist in a major Jewish journal, and I just spoke 2 weeks ago to the convention— it was in Houston— of the rabbinic assembly, the gathering of the rabbis of the conservative movement of Judaism. There are 3 movements, basically: Reform, Conservative, and Orthodox. So I am very steeped in Jewish life, but I'm also steeped in Christian life. Not as a Christian, obviously. You can't be both, although I don't want to get into that argument about Messianic Jews and so on. But one is either theologically, at any rate, a Jew or a Christian. But I am very involved with Christians, very much. Salem Radio Network, which syndicates my radio show, is Evangelical Christians. It is the largest owner and producer of Christian radio in the world, I believe, certainly in America. In every city that I am in, and it's now about 80-plus, there is a Salem Christian station and/or two, and a Salem talk station where I'm with Bill Bennett and usually Laura Ingram and Michael Medved and Hugh Hewitt. And so on. And so I'm very involved in that way with Christians. I'm very involved in speaking with, to, learning from, and I understand Christians. I do. I get what they're about. And so I am really involved in both and serve somewhat of a bridge. For many Christians, I'm the first religious Jew that they've ever met. And I mean not personally, I mean on radio even. And for many Jews, I am the first Christian they ever met. That's a joke. That is a joke. It's a good joke, but it was a joke. For many Jews, I am the most pro-Christian Jew that they hear. And because I'm trusted, at least in parts of Jewish life— there are parts of Jewish life that are quite left and are not fans of mine, but I'm trusted within Jewish life, and I do speak very much to the issue of, look, Christians are our best friends. That has been the theme of most of my talks to Jewish communities in the last 3 years since 9/11. Again, that our— we Jews, our best friends are Christians. And so I really do work as a liaison between the two. But what I want to talk to you about is a topic dear to me, and I have not talked about this in a long time. And so I learned, and I know a lot more now than when I last gave this talk many years ago. What is it that Jews and Christians can learn from each other or can teach each other? Either— I don't care which title you use. And, uh, it'll— it should provoke thought because, again, uh, this amalgam of Judeo and Christian is the most powerful in the world. And if Jews and Christians do unite, which would be a first in history— since the beginning of Christianity there's been disunity, uh, to say the least— but if Jews and Christians do unite, it will happen in America, and it is happening already, it's beginning. I think it is a force that cannot be stopped, and it is a force for good. So it's good to know what it is we have to teach each other, unless you believe that, well, we are so terrific, we Jews or we Christians, we have nothing to learn from another group. But I don't think anybody in their heart really believes that. Of course we have something to learn from others, there's no question. And so here are some thoughts on what Jews and Christians can learn or can teach each other. And I have no— there's no order of importance, and it doesn't matter which, uh, which team I begin with, as it were. But here goes. What I'll begin with, what I think that Christians can teach— well, most of you are Christians, so I'll begin with what, what Jews can teach you. All right, you're probably more curious. In any event, we're always curious about the other. So I will begin in that way, and the list is equal. The thing is so remarkable is that there are very deep issues that both can teach the other. That's what's so good. You know, these are not, you know, well, Jews can teach Christians how to enjoy bagels, cream cheese, and lox. This is not what I'm talking about. You know, this is very heavy stuff that we can teach each other. So I want to make that clear. Anyway, that we have taught. That's the sad part. Jews have taught everybody how to enjoy bagel, cream cheese. I mean, there is no part of America without a bagel place right now, you know. I'll never forget, I was in a famous deli. Well, many of you are from Los Angeles. I was in the deli on Pico and Westwood. Junior's? Junior's, of course. Junior's. Where I spent a good part of my earlier life in LA. And I was watching a black waitress teach a Japanese man what challah was. I mean, you know, it was just a great moment. Only in America can that happen. And she was totally right. She pronounced it right. I mean, everything about it. And he was listening very carefully. Then she explained rugelach. I mean, it was pretty funny stuff. That's Yiddish, you know. So this is America. Okay, number 1, that I— something that I believe Jews can teach Christians and Christians can learn from Jews is the importance of ritual. It has— one of the revelations that struck me in my immersion in Christianity and Judaism doing Religion on the Line, many of you from LA may recall that. That's how I began radio, was for 10 years, every Sunday night for 2 hours, I, I moderated a priest, minister, rabbi, different ones each week. And I learned it— if, if God intervenes in one's life, God intervened to have me do that show. What I learned about the Christians then and was could not be learned at any seminary. I mean, this was such a terrific immersion in understanding other religious people and other religious attitudes. In any event, one of the things that I marveled at was certainly among Protestants, obviously less so among Catholics, the absence of ritual. For example, I would say to a pastor, Pastor, if I came to your house on a Sunday after church, is there anything about the way you were behaving that I would know that it was Sunday? And they would all think for a moment and then say, well, no, not really. And I'd say, so, like, so basically Sunday— if I call it the Lord's Day, call it Sabbath, call whatever you want— ends when church is out. And, you know, they would sheepishly say, well, often they would say, well, it's in my heart. Okay, well, that to Jewish ears is a very strange term. It's in your heart, but you're watching football. So I don't get that exactly. I'm really thinking it's the Lord's Day, but my heart is with the Green Bay Packers. I mean, I'm watching— I don't get it. But so that was a very interesting revelation to me the absence of ritual, religious ritual, in much of Christian life. You know, beyond church, it's all largely faith and heart-based. It's the inner feelings, the inner covenant, the covenant on the heart now. You know, and I understand its origins with largely a whole holding that theologically one is not bound any longer to the ritual. That was needed for a time according to Paul, and that time is over with the coming of Jesus and so on. Now Catholics obviously have more ritual and sacraments and so on, and so I appreciate that fact, but nevertheless, not only do I think religious people desperately need rituals, but I think secular people need rituals. The United States is ritual-challenged. That's why we have a real problem conveying the essence of America to the next generation. July 4th doesn't mean anything. Memorial Day doesn't mean anything. All the rituals that many of you grew up with or, or read about now are almost gone. I do that every July 4th. Other than having a barbecue, what are you doing today? Do you even put out the flag? Putting out the flag is a ritual. Visiting a military cemetery on— on Veterans Cemetery on Memorial Day is a ritual. But without rituals, you don't have continuity. One of the secrets of Jewish survival, and it is a remarkable thing, Jewish survival, to be kicked out of your homeland and exist for 2,000 years as a tiny minority and survive. The answer is ritual. When Jews sit down at a Passover Seder and say, we, these, this is the Hebrew, I'm translating it, we were slaves in Egypt, we Not they. We sitting here. We. Just, it happens to be our forefathers and ancestors generally. And it works so that, in fact, a very famous statement from the Haggadah, which is the Passover ritual book that is used on Passover, says every person is obligated to see himself as if he got out of Egypt. You have to utterly identify with what happened to the point of we eat bitter herbs to induce tears. And you can't get more ritual than that. You eat bitter herbs at the Seder so that you start to cry. In case you don't cry on your own, you will be forced to cry with the bitter herbs. Now that's powerful ritual stuff, and ritual permeates Judaism. Now personally, I think there's too much. I am not an Orthodox Jew. I am a religious and observant Jew, but I'm not Orthodox. That's a whole separate world unto itself. And I think that you can weigh down a religious life and the heart with too much ritual. Everything has to be in balance in life. You can overwhelm with ritual, there's no question, but its absence is a cost. And a lot of Christians feel it. That's why That's why many churches like the Passover Seder. They love the ritual. They realize there's something rich to it. When I describe my Sabbath on the radio, Christians email me, "Oh my God, that's so— we'd like to do that on Sunday." Those are great ideas. "God, I wish we did that. I wish we did that." So ritual is an area of of tremendous significance that I think Christians can learn from Jews. Now, I'm debating whether to go down the list or to alternate. Which do you want? You want to feel better if I alternate? So, yeah, I'll alternate, lest you start thinking, uh-oh, what the hell do we have to give the Jews?

You know, this episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

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Now back to more of Dennis Prager's timeless wisdom.

The, uh, One thing that Jews can learn from Christians, and I have obviously a list of 3 or 4 things for each, is the converse of the ritual part, and that is the centrality of God and faith. That has taken a real kick in the teeth in Jewish life. Jews are much less God-centered, generally speaking, than are Christians. And I'm talking now not secular Jews, that's obvious. Secular Jews by definition are not going to be God-centered. I mean Jews active in Reform, Conservative, and Orthodox even life. So deep is the commitment to ethnicity and to observance that God got somehow lost in the picture. You know what I spoke to the rabbis of the conservative, not the reform, the conservative movement about? The, these, how, how we have lost God, how faith has just become a Christian word and not a Jewish word. That's what I actually told 200 rabbis 2 weeks ago. And these are all, every rabbi there was sitting there wearing a yarmulke. These are not— these are far, far, far from secular Jews. And I spoke to them about the importance of the belief that the Torah is divine. I said, by and large, there were two groups of people that believe that the Torah is divine: Orthodox Jews and Christians. Now, that, that's fascinating. That's just a fascinating thing. So this is a tremendous thing to teach what has happened. See, Judaism is composed of 3 things. This is normative. This is Reform, Conservative, Orthodox. And that is God, Torah, Israel. That is the Jewish, if you will, Trinity. God, Torah, Israel. Israel doesn't mean the state. Israel means the people. That those 3 things make up Judaism. God, Torah, Israel. God, Torah is observance and teaching, and specifically the Torah itself, the Five Books of Moses. And the Torah, as it were, observance and law and Israel peoplehood have overwhelmed the God part in Jewish life. Now that's its own lecture, what happened to God in Jewish life. Now you'll say, even the Orthodox? And I will say to you that while the Orthodox are more faith-oriented than anybody else in Jewish life, Even for much, not all by any means, of Orthodoxy is this true. I grew up Orthodox and I can tell you that in my yeshiva, and that's, that's, you can't get more Orthodox than yeshiva, God was not a big subject. Observance was the big subject. How do you keep kosher? How do you build a booth on the holiday of booths, the Tabernacles? I mean, studying Talmudic law and and endless. See, what happened is here, to show you the juxtaposition of— we Jews could teach Christians ritual and have to, or Christians need to learn it, and Jews need to learn the faith-centeredness from how Christians have correctly done it— is what happens is people tend to become extreme in what they're best at. It's just the way it is. It's very hard to be moderate. It's the hardest thing in life. And so the Christians went gung-ho on faith, and the Jews went gung-ho on observance. And they both need faith and observance. Now, not the same. I don't expect and/or want them to be the same religions, but they're both necessary, I think, for a rich religious life. All right, so now I'll alternate and go to the second thing that that Jews ought to learn and can learn from Christians. Christians don't know, don't realize this when I tell them this, but they have succeeded, America's Christians, in doing something that is, that has not yet been achieved outside of Christianity. That is how great your achievement is, and that is lead deeply religious lives and in the world at the same time. This has not happened for Muslims, and it has not happened for Jews. The more religious the Jew, the more religious the Christian, the more they tend to retreat from the world into religious enclaves where they, where they, where they stay within very strict boundaries of separation from the world, lest they assimilate, lest they water down the purity of their religious life. This— how Christians have achieved this, to stay religious and within the world— now, not every Christian achieves this. I'm not an idiot, and I'm not romanticizing a body of people that numbers in so many millions. But there are enough of such Christians around to say that this has not been duplicated elsewhere. In part, it is because it is so internalized, the religiosity, that laws and rituals don't bar you from living in the world. That's the good side. But you can still have rituals and live in the world. That's the best of combinations. But it shows you how subtle all these things are. But this is an achievement that religious Christians have made, have achieved, that I stand quite honestly in awe of when I meet people who will lead, you know, lives, you know, they even send their kids to public schools. No, no, that's not a joke. That is a very amazing thing to me because almost no deeply religious Jew would send his kid to a public school. It almost never happens. They are so afraid their child will assimilate or not, you know, not have enough immersion in Judaism. And then assimilate. Now, you might argue, well, that's in part because after all there are far more Christians than Jews in America, so Christians are much more secure. But I would argue that Christians, even where they're minorities, like in Israel, are still more capable, are still not afraid of their children assimilating, and will still live in the real world and not hide in cocoons. There are Christians who do hide in cocoons. There are Christians who grow up very insular, never meeting a non-Christian. That is absolutely correct. I am aware of that. Nevertheless, this is a huge lesson to be learned, and it is one that it will be very, very difficult for Jews to assimilate because Jewish law is separation-oriented. It just is. It's just a fact. It's very hard to live in the world if you are not allowed to eat off the same dishes or drink the same wine that non-Jews are. So that's a very complex question in Jewish life. Now then, what can Jews teach Christians? Go back to that list. Is political involvement. Christians do live in the world, but they individually, but collectively, have tended to ignore the world. Now, this is a mixed bag too. Christians became very involved. After all, the anti-slavery movement was led by Christians, and I am aware of that. Nevertheless, I'll give you examples so you see why my generalization is probably accurate. Nevertheless, Christians tend not— their instinct is not to bother that much with this world in terms of activism. This current activism of the religious right in America is brand new, and you can thank the ACLU and the Democratic Party. I'm not kidding. I say that utterly objectively. A sleeping giant has been awakened by the onslaught of anti-Christian, anti-religious, anti-God-based activity in the United States of America. The instinct of the conservative American Christian is not to get involved religiously politically. It is to go to church, it is to go to the Bible class, to raise your kids in a nice way, in your way, and let God handle what God wants. You know, render to Caesar what is Caesar's and render to God what is God's. But awakened by the ACLU, the entire secular bomb— war waged against God, waged against the cross, literally. Uh, Christians have awakened, but still, you— I'll give you the, you know, the— I said this on the radio just last week, uh, it is one of the ironies of life, but so be it, that I was the— I, a religious Jew, led the fight to keep the cross in the Los Angeles County seal. Now, thank you. That's very kind of you, but I— you understand, of course, I'm telling it to you for quite non-Dennis-oriented reasons. Where were the Christians? And they did not get the requisite number of signatures to get it on a ballot because the churches just didn't care that much. Now I as a Jew am thinking, I can't believe this. How is that possible? You don't care whether something so critical, whether Los Angeles County will erase the vestiges of the Christian founding of that county? That doesn't matter to you? And, you know, people would send me letters, and Christians would call up or send me letters. Look, it's our belief that that these are the things, these are in God's hands. What does it mean in God's hands? And what did he make people for? What a waste of time. If everything is in God's hands, why fight polio? I mean, I don't get what— I don't even— I frankly, maybe it's the Jew in me, I don't understand that thinking. It's not a matter of I don't agree, I don't even understand. God will take care of the cross on the LA County seal? How? What will he do? Will he send locusts into the Board of Supervisors? What will he do? I don't understand the thinking. I don't understand when Christians did not get involved during the Cold War for Christians in the Soviet Union. Jews were crazed to fight for Soviet Jewry. Christians did nothing for Soviet Christians. Every synagogue in America—Reformed, Conservative, Orthodox—had a sign on the front: Save Soviet Jewry. Not one church had a sign, Save Soviet Christians. And I even knew then, and I was one of the leaders in the Soviet Jewry movement, that I even said then, Christians have it worse than Jews even in Russia. They were tortured to death for having a New Testament. Jews were singularly persecuted, but they weren't being tortured to death if only because they didn't want to bother world Jewry. Which is tiny. World Christendom is huge, a billion. The Soviets couldn't care less what a billion Christians thought, but did care what 13 million Jews thought. Because Jews make noise, Christians don't. That's all. It's very simple. So you're killing Christians, that's very sad. Billy Graham went to the Soviet Union. This was— I'll never forget George Will's column. George Will wrote a scathing indictment of the most popular Christian in America, and it forever— I'm sorry to say, forever— colored my view of a great man, Billy Graham. That he went to the Soviet Union and there were Christians who came to his talk, and they were kicked out of of his talk and taken away by Soviet secret police, and in front of him, and he said nothing. He gave a speech in Soviet Union and said, you have to obey the authorities. That's the Protestant Christian message. The Christian authorities one has to obey? I mean, that's just astonishing. But this was an introduction to to me from what I had learned during the Soviet-Jewish struggle, that Christians weren't fighting. You know that it is a Jew who leads the movement to liberate Sudanese Christians? It's a Jewish guy. He's not even religious. It's a Jewish guy, and the Christians admitted he's died. I forgot his name, but I just want to give him credit. Now, some Christians are active, but it's a Jewish guy who led that, a Jewish guy who led the fight for the cross. Now, there's something endearing about Christians not wanting to be major activists. The world has enough activism, as it were, but it doesn't have enough activism for good things. Most activism isn't for the values that most of you and I share. So that is a very important thing that Christians could learn. I am stunned that the churches of Los Angeles could not get enough signatories to put it on a ballot, at least. If you're not going to fight for the cross, who will? I mean, it's just— is it not important? What is important, really? What becomes important ultimately? Well, one can say, and people did call, look, Dennis, you know, it's nice, it's important, but the most important thing is to win people to Christ. That's the Christian mission. So that's an interesting— first of all, why does one negate the other? You're so busy with souls that you don't care about the bodies of Christians in the Soviet Union? You're so busy, you know, teaching the gospel that— but doesn't the gospel mean that I have to care about a guy tortured for studying the New Testament? Doesn't— isn't that one of the— what's the upshot? Once I'm saved, don't I do something about it? Or do I just save the next guy? Maybe, and maybe that's the answer. Well, you know, and who am I to say? But that is a very big deal. Gradually, Christians are beginning to awaken, and it is scaring the living daylights out of the secular left. But it is far, far from an awakening as the cross idea taught. Now, on to the other side. Now, by the way, I'm sure that as I say each, you're thinking, yeah, Wow, that's a big deal. And then you think there's more? Yeah, there's even more. I'll give you a thing that Christians can teach Jews that I have learned. I mean, when I say can, I've learned these things from Christians. This is not theoretical. This Jew has learned these things. Personal prayer. There is very little, almost no personal prayer in Judaism. This is probably shocking to many of you Christians to even even know that since it's such a deep part of your life, the prayer life. But in Jewish life, prayer is collective, number one. It is collective, and it has already been written out. We have a prayer book called the Siddur, and we read those prayers. It's already been written for us. You can— oh, any Jew can talk to God anytime he or she wants, but it's just not done. When I gather with Christians and we sit down at a table and, you know, they will say, let us, you know, let us say a prayer, and then they say things that are so powerful. And the most ineloquent Christian becomes the most eloquent person when it comes to a prayer. And I am just blown away. And I think that they're very powerful to invoke in a very immediate sense God and into that moment, and this was all foreign to me. I know the Hebrew prayer book virtually by heart. I mean it. That's a lot of pages, and I know— I would say I know two-thirds of it by heart. But I didn't write any of those words. They were written thousands of years ago, and not all of them mean that much to me, frankly. They mean something to me, but being able to say something with others that is very pertinent to the moment does mean a lot to me, and I like that. That's a very powerful thing that ought to be, I suspect, reintroduced. Certainly Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, you know, certainly earlier Jews said their own prayers, didn't wait for a prayer book to be written for them. So it was that, that was okay. Now we're back to what Jews can teach Christians.

This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

Hi, Kevin McCullough. Think fossil fuels are climate villains that the legacy media and establishment politicos ask us to believe that they are? Think again. Did you know that fossil fuels power the systems that keep us safe? From air conditioning that prevents heat stroke to heating systems that protect against extreme cold, they also provide low-cost power for our storm warning systems, giving us time to evacuate and save lives. Forget being a villain. Fossil fuels have literally been the hero in the prevention of billions of deaths and the extension of life. In fact, over the past century, deaths from climate-related disasters like extreme temperatures, droughts, floods, storms, wildfires have declined by 98% thanks to fossil-fueled infrastructure and technology. I'm Kelvin McCullough, and I just want you to know the facts. Don't be fossil fooled. Get the full picture. At oilfax.com. Brought to you by NASDAQ-listed Prairie Operating Group, a high-growth, low-cost producer of safe and responsible American energy. That's oilfax.com. oilfax.com.

Now back to more of Dennis Prager's timeless wisdom.

I have one more, and this is not so— this is what you— but it's really what Judaism can teach more than Jews specifically, because, uh, well, I'll explain why in a moment. And this, this, this is, this is tough to, uh, this is the toughest one to convey. I'll do it by way of an anecdote. When I had the priest, minister, and rabbi on, on my, on my show, uh, on radio Sunday nights, I would choose a topic every week. And I never told them the topic prior to their coming, so they'd learn it about 15 minutes before the show. By the way, you may not know this, but there's a very deep Dennis the Menace aspect to me. Very deep. You have no idea. I love being a naughty boy, and I would do something a little cruel every Sunday night, 15 minutes before the show began. I would meet in what you call the green room with the clergy, and I'd say, "Gentlemen," usually, or women, but usually gentlemen, "Gentlemen, the topic this week is a comparison of the teleological aspects of Luke and Habakkuk." I am lucky, I really am, that I never caused a heart attack in any of the older clergy that showed up. They— because I, I really could say anything with a straight face. And so there would be panic in the faces of these poor, sweet rabbis, priests, and ministers who showed up. And they'd go, well, Dennis, but nobody told us in advance. Of course nobody told them. It was a joke. It was a bad joke, you know. But anyway, that's what I would do every side. Make up utterly esoteric, nonsensical theological subject for the clergy. Now, of course, a few guys caught on, and they would then play along. They'd go, Dennis, that is such a simple topic. Thank you so much. We thought it would be, you know, something esoteric. So it was, it was a lot. I had a ball doing that. I go, guys, don't worry about it, you know, tonight. Anyway, I did come up with, I did a I did about 500 shows, 10 years, so I did almost 500 shows, which is astonishing to me. And I would say I came up with 400 topics. Maybe 100 were repeated. That's a lot of topics. I wish I remembered them. They would give me topics for my shows now. But anyway, every so often I would do something really big, and I would do it— I would choose the following topic. Gentlemen, Or, ladies and gentlemen, according to your religion as you understand it, what is the greatest sin? It's a very interesting subject for all of you to think about. What do you think the greatest sin is? And, uh, there was a real Jewish-Christian difference, by and large. Christians almost always had a theological sin, and Jews almost always had a behavioral sin. For Christians, it would be blaspheming the Holy Spirit was a very common one, or something like that. For Jews, it was, you know, mass murder or torture, or, you know, or some, some very specific evil. Uh, and I, I'll give you another example of this, wherein the— I don't know if you remember those kids who were charged with the, with raping and beating nearly to death the, the Central Park jogger, the woman who, in Manhattan. When that happened, it was a horrific story what they did to this poor young woman, and The cardinal, a great man, the cardinal of New York, went to visit them to tell them that God loves them. And I remember I lost my cool and I said, you know, and this is what I said, I said, you know, there are so many, so many kind and decent decent and good Catholics in the New York area who, 2 minutes with the Cardinal would be the greatest 2 minutes of their lives, but they will never meet him. But if you rape a woman and beat her to death, near to death, with bricks, then you get a visit from the Cardinal. That's my— that was my bitter reaction. Now, I know all— believe me, I know all the defenses. I assure you I did. Dennis Prager, because for 3 weeks in a row I did the same subject, and I had never done that on that program. And I would go around the room and I would say, okay, Father, if you had to visit those accused rapists and beaters of this woman, what would you say? Pastor to the Protestant, what would you say? Rabbi to the rabbi, what would you say? And it didn't matter, it didn't matter whether it was a liberal or conservative Catholic priest, a liberal or conservative Protestant, or what denomination the rabbi was from. The priest and minister agreed with the cardinal, this is our message to everybody, no matter what they do, God loves you. And the rabbi would say, well, if I would, if I, first, I don't want I don't want to visit them. I said, I want to visit the family of the girl. So number one, I don't want to visit them. But Dennis, you said if I had to visit them? Well, if I had to visit them, I would say, you guys did such evil, you are probably really screwed in God's eyes. And, uh, you know, I don't really know. I mean, I hope you repent, but, you know, I don't want to be here, but Dennis sent me. Okay. And the same thing happened the second week. The priest and the minister agreed with the cardinal. The rabbi said, "I don't want to go." Then the third week I did it again. I wanted to see. I was learning. I was learning about Christian-Jewish differences. So the third week I did it again, but the third week the rabbi scheduled— remember, these were different clergy each week— the rabbi scheduled was the most flower power rabbi I ever met. This is a rabbi who lived the language of '60s love. I love you, you love me, God loves you, I love flowers, flowers love me, and so on. And I was certain, I was certain when I saw him, my heart sank because I was certain that whatever I assumed could be the generalization was going to be shattered this week, that he would tell those kids too if he had to go, but God loves you. But I figured, look, I promised I would do it 3 weeks running, so here it goes. So I go to the priest, I say what the cardinal said. The Protestant, well, I would more or less say what the cardinal said too, God loves you. And now my heart beating because all of my generalization is going to be shot. All right, Rabbi, what would you say? And he said, well, Dennis, Dennis, if I had to meet them, I would tell them that they are real assholes. That may have been the greatest moment of my life. I'm not sure. I was— I had inner ecstasy. This was a very— this was a major moment. Now, the point here is that in Jewish life and in Christian life, there are different emphases. That's understandable. And that sin is the greatest sin. Certain sins are greater sins for Christians and certain are greater for Jews. And remember, this is theological. This doesn't mean that Christians do more of the bad. It's not true at all. People and their theologies are not the same. This is something I have learned over and over. I never judge people by their theologies anyway. How could I? After all, many Christians believe that I can't be saved and yet I adore them. So I don't judge them by their theology. I judge them by their behavior, which is wonderful to me as a person and as a Jew. Okay. Nevertheless, whether it has ramifications in practice or not, this is a big difference. Whenever I speak of sin, Christians think in terms of theology and sexual sin. Jews think in terms of evil, and they're not the same. Evil being torture, murder, rape, you know, the simple evils, if you will. That is a difference. The emphasis in what the sin is. I'll give you another example. This was always my favorite example. On a few occasions, the subject for the evening on Religion on the Line was lust. What does your religion say about lust? The Catholic and the Protestant were in agreement: this is a serious sin, citing, needless to say, Jesus, that whoever of a man lusts for another woman, he has committed adultery with his heart. To which impish Dennis Prager would often respond that from Jewish perspective, you can only commit adultery with one organ, and it isn't the heart. So, just leave that where it is. But this was what blew my mind. The Christians were very, very concerned with the sin of lust, and under torture, I could not get a rabbi to to get exercised about it. Even Orthodox rabbis, Orthodox, Conservative, or Reform, I would say to them, did you ever, ever once give a sermon on lust? And they looked at me like I asked them some obscure question out of nowhere. Of course not. It doesn't register. This is shocking to Christians for whom lust is a serious subject. I say it You know, obviously respectfully. In fact, one rabbi went, "Lost schmust," and that was the end of that. He didn't even add anything. Now, one of the things that I learned was— this will really interest you because people love mirrors onto themselves from sympathetic outsiders. One of the things that I that Religion on the Line and immersion with Christians has done to me is I grew up having Christian envy, which was analogous to penis envy that Freud said women would grow up with. And what— whether you agree with it or not, I'm just saying it's analogous in that it's just so subliminal. And what was it? My God, did they have it easy! They can do anything they want. They believe in Jesus, they're saved. Me, I've got all these laws. I can't drive on Shabbos, and I can't write on Shabbos. I have to fast on Yom Kippur. And the laws were endless. You have no idea. They are endless. And I thought, what a deal! What a deal! God, isn't it great to be Christian? Why did I get stuck with this stuff? So that's what I thought as a kid. I lost all Christian envy speaking to Christians on Religion on the Line. And I thought, oh my God, I may have endless laws that I have to observe, but you have far more guilt than I'll ever have. You poor things, I can't believe it. No Jew walks around guilty over lusting. It doesn't even register on his sin meter. If he commits adultery, he sinned. But if he didn't, he didn't sin. Now, it's not a mitzvah to lust, don't get me wrong. I mean, we're not taught in yeshiva, "Thou shalt lust." That is not taught. It's just, it's a non-issue. It's part of life. It happens. Have a nice day. Now let's talk about what really matters: how many hours separate eating meat from milk. Okay? That's, that's, you see, isn't it fascinating? The mindsets are so different. And so I lost all envy. Oh my God, because I mean, if that were a big sin, I'm doomed. I mean, I have no chance. I, you know, and that's what a Jew would think. You know, where is, I have no chance. I mean, of course it's just part of life. It's the way God made us. And yet, for many Christians, I read the stuff, I talk to Christian men in particular, it is an ongoing battle with major sin in their lives, and it takes huge amounts of energy. And I salute them. I mean, if they can reach that state, it's quite— I assume it is quite an achievement. But all I'm saying is it doesn't— the sin definition is different in the two. And part of the reasons— see, they're all interlinked. Part of the reason that Christians aren't fighting for tortured Christians in Soviet Union— I mean, that this is in the past— is because their preoccupation wasn't with evil. It was with other things. Sins of non-belief, sins of whatever the sin might be. And so these all do interrelate with one another. So that is a— I'll give you one other example with Judaism's very— this is, this is a Judaism-Christian more than Jew-Christian, because I wouldn't argue for a nanosecond that either side has a monopoly on ethical people, that I— not for a second. But interestingly, I will often get letters from Christian pastors saying, Dennis, I love you, I love your writings, and I'm gonna steal some of your ideas for my sermon, for my next article. And they will do that. No rabbi has ever cited me without citing my name, because in Judaism you are forbidden forbidden to take an idea from someone else without attribution. It is— that's a big sin, believe it or not. That's a bigger sin than lusting. Not citing the source of an idea is a bigger sin in Judaism than lusting. Now, for a Christian, that's news, that's revelation, but that is the case. And so always, if a rabbi or any cognizant Jew will cite somebody, the Talmud is crazed about it. That's the major Jewish work after the Bible. Rabbi so-and-so said in the name of Rabbi so-and-so who heard it from Rabbi so-and-so. So not only is Rabbi so-and-so giving the original attribution, he's also telling who heard it and conveyed it to him. So you have 3 people conveying the idea. That's why, by the way, the very phrase is accurate. I will steal— I'm gonna steal your ideas. And then sometimes, depending how close I am to the Christian, I'll say, but it says thou shalt not steal, and this is a very big part of theft. So that's an interesting different arena on what the preoccupations in the sin world are about. Did I have one other? Oh yes, give you one other law that is very well known in Judaism. There's a Talmudic law that if you walk into a store A Jew who walks into a store is not permitted to ask the storekeeper the price of an item if he knows he will not buy it. You are not allowed to take the time of the storekeeper for no reason. If you know you're not going to buy a car at car dealer X, you cannot test drive it. Now, if you don't know where you'll buy it, of course you can test drive it because there's a possibility you will buy it get there. But if you are certain you won't, you will get it through the internet, you will not even get it at all, you just want a joyride. Hey, I really want to, you know, I'm 19 years old and I'm dying to test drive a Porsche. I'm going to go to a Porsche dealer. I'll never buy it, but by golly, it's fun. You can't mislead, and that is what it is. You could say the truth, say, you know what, I have no intention of buying this here, but I'd like to test drive the car. Of course, the guy will say, well, then, you know, we don't have We don't have the time for you. We have the time for people who might buy a car. Well, what about the women who will take a dress from Nordstrom for the weekend and then return it after they wore it Saturday night? That's theft. That's a very big sin. And everybody thinking about it, well, Christians will agree it's a sin too. I'm just talking about what it is that might be emphasized. Finally, on the other side, what it is that Jews can learn from Christians. This is a real irony, but it is absolutely accurate in, in that you would think that this is what Jews would specialize in since they developed the idea, but it's Christians who took the idea and ran with it. And that is a mission to humanity. Christians believe— every Christian, I believe, almost Almost every Christian who is at all serious about his or her Christianity could answer the question, "What is your greatest task as a Christian?" And I think most would say, "To spread the gospel." If you ask a Jew, "What is your task as a Jew?" they won't know what you're saying. I just spoke at Yeshiva University, the leading Orthodox university in the world. I was a scholar in residence, and I asked the students there, that, you know, what's your task as a Jew? You're an Orthodox Jew, you're a religious Jew, what's your task? And they would say, my task is to do the mitzvot, keep the commandments. Yeah, but what's your— yeah, but that doesn't answer, what is your task? That's it? There's no greater mission in your Jewish life than to just fulfill the commandments? The Christians have a sense of mission to the world that animates them. Utterly and totally. Ironically and tragically, there are many Jews with a mission to the world, but they're not religious. These are Jews whose religion is liberalism or leftism. It might be feminism, it might be environmentalism, it might be socialism. In other words, many Jews feel a mission to the world, but they're not the religious ones. But so the religious Jewish life has become missionless, and the secular Jews, or even non-Jewish Jews, they're filled with a mission. That's a problem. But Christians have a sense of mission to humanity. That's why we— I mean, we're in New Zealand now, we're off the coast of New Zealand. You know, missionaries came here to convert people to Christianity and do a lot of good while they did it. Missionaries may not have a good name at your local university, but they have done immense good in this world. They didn't go to people and say, if you don't convert, we'll kill you. They went by and large and said, you know what, we would like to teach you our scriptures. We think it's more elevated than the way of life you may have now. We believe it's true, and we are going to just live among you and do as much good as we can. We'll build hospitals here, and we'll try to be models of what we're we're talking about. That's what missionaries by and large did. That's a sense of mission. There is one religious Jewish group with a sense of mission, that's Chabad, if you ever heard of them, the Chabad Hasidim. They're a small group compared to the rest of Jewry, but they have it. But by and large, it has been lost. Now, that's the talk. That is, these are huge areas. Now, when you think about it, how if these two actually did influence each other in these ways while keeping true to the values that unite them— and that's why maybe I should give one of the other talks on the values that do unite them— this is utterly transformative. This would be unbelievable in its impact in the world that is looking for something, because the world is devoid of a good system of values. It is devoid of it. Outside of Judeo-Christian, I don't know of a good value system in the world. I, I really don't. I'm, I'm very worried about the world in that way. So that's what these two remarkable groups can teach each other, and it can come to pass essentially in one place. I wish it were true others, but if it can, it's in the US. I will end with a little story on that. I was on the Larry King Show. It was the Christmas Eve program, and I was on with a major Protestant leader and a major Catholic priest and Deepak Chopra, a major nihilist. And that was a joke. I think he is a major nihilist, but that's not his identification. In any event, Oh, and a Muslim, and a leading Muslim was on, American Muslim, whom I know very well. And near the very end of the show, Larry King mentioned that, hey, you know, look at this, isn't this beautiful? A Muslim, a Jew, Christians sitting here, you know, not killing each other, united, and so on. I said, Larry, there's only one reason. It's because it's the United States of America. And the Muslim said, Dennis is right. That was important that he said that too. And that is right, and that is where, that is where something will happen. And that is what makes America different too. America has a sense of a mission to humanity, for which reason it's hated. People with missions are not loved. The Jews started with a mission. That's why they believe in chosenness. Why they, they, why they dropped the sense of mission is both historical and theological and not for this moment, but it was carried on by Christians and now carried on by the United States of America. A mission to be a bright shining light on a hill. That's what we can teach each other, and I think it's going to happen. Thank you very, very much. Thank you. Okay, thanks very much. Time for questions, comments, and brief alternate speeches.

Yes, this episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

Hi, Kevin McCullough. Think fossil fuels are climate villains that the legacy media and establishment politicos ask us to believe that they are? Think again. Did you know that fossil fuels power the systems that keep us safe, from air conditioning that prevents heat stroke to heating systems that protect against extreme cold? They also provide low-cost power for our storm warning systems, giving us time to evacuate and save lives. Forget being a villain. Fossil fuels have literally been the hero in the prevention of billions of deaths and the extension of life. In fact, over the past century, deaths from climate-related disasters like extreme temperatures, droughts, floods, storms, wildfires have declined by 98% thanks to fossil-fueled infrastructure and technology. I'm Kelvin McCullough, and I just want you to know the facts. Don't be fossil fooled. Get the full picture at oilfacts.com. Brought to you by NASDAQ-listed Prairie Operating Group, a high-growth, low-cost producer of safe and responsible American energy. That's oilfax.com. oilfax.com.

Now, back to more of Dennis Prager's timeless wisdom.

We happened to be in Europe during the last election, and there was a lot of discussion about the subject that you're you're talking about. I think Europeans seem to be confused as to whether the relationship in the United States between religion is more political than it is religious. Otherwise, there's a very strong influence of the Jewish population in the United States, of the Christian Association, and that they really don't trust us in that respect. And, you know, over there they made the point that a very small population, percent of the population, actually go to church or are involved.

You know, it's— yeah, the Europeans, you're right, the Europeans don't understand and in fact fear the power of religious Americans. That's part of the— that's the biggest part of their fear of George Bush, that he's religious and actually believes that he gets his values from his religion. That's why I love George Bush. That's why he's hated in Europe, in part. That and his belief that America knows better than the United Nations how to act. To me, that is so self-evident. You know, I think my 12-year-old knows better than the United Nations how to act. The United Nations made Sudan, in the midst of its genocide, the head of its human rights commission. The UN is morally inverted. It's not just wrong, it's upside down. But yes, they do fear that, and you know, they have much bigger fears to fear, however, as they will gradually and are gradually learning. And that is the erosion of Europe. I had a woman on who was a major scholar, written a major book, you should read it, called Eurabia: How Europe is Becoming Arabia. Becoming a Muslim continent. And it is. This is not hysteria. This is not— it's just, it is. Europeans don't procreate. No secular affluent group procreates. Religious affluent and religious poor and non-religious poor procreate, but religious affluent don't. They prefer to spend their money on eating out. And cruises. Told you I was impish. Yes.

And what happened, the people in some way, they lost, not saying everyone, but in Judaism they lost the main sense of Judaism that they relate to more to the ceremonies or more to the less important issues. For example, you know, in Yom Kippur, you can ask God for forgiveness about sins between you and God, but you cannot ask for forgiveness between you and other people. And also, what is important in Judaism is is what is happening, how you behave to people. Not if you pray 3 times a day or you don't eat— you eat kosher. This is maybe it was developed later, which is important that you know the— I think Yirmiyahu said it, that Jeremiah, that God says to the people, you know, when you come you come to visit me, I will not watch you because your hands are full with blood. And when you will come to visit my temple, I don't wish you to step in my temple because you don't take care of the orphanage, of the widow, etc., etc., etc. And I think that also in some way, so people lost A lot of Jews pray 3 times a day, what you mentioned before, they keep kosher very strictly, but they lie, they steal, which this is the most important, it's written strictly in the Bible, don't steal, don't lie, keep what you are saying. And I think same, just to finish, same about Christianity. I had a gentleman I had a gentleman that was working in my company, he was going to church like 3, you know, every time and was involved and so on, but he stopped. So why I'm bringing it? Because people, they lost what is important and what is less important. So the most important, be a good person, help each other.

I agree with you in, look, and I said it, spoke about how ritual is so overwhelmed in Judaism, and it's overwhelmed other things, and I agree. However, what I don't agree is that secularism produces better people. In fact, secularism, I think, has produced worse people than Judaism and Christianity have produced. If I were told I had to do a big a business deal, and I only knew this: that there were two men. One man thought religion was nonsense. The other one went to church every Sunday. That's all I knew. If I wouldn't flip a coin, I would take the guy who went to church every Sunday. Does that mean that there was no one who goes to church every Sunday who would cheat? I wish that were the case, but we all know, of course, not. But if I have to weigh the odds, I can only tell you that the most morally confused place in America is the most secular place, and that is the university. It is sick. Its values are awful. It doesn't know the difference between good and evil. The average 15-year-old Christian homeschooled child child has a better understanding of good and evil than the average professor in the United States and in Israel. These are secular moral idiots. So I do not trust secularism as far as I can throw it. That doesn't mean I trust all religious people. I don't. But between the two, I have a chance to improve people who are Bible-based much better than I have a chance to improve people who get their ethics from their heart. So that's the best I can do. The world— it's very hard to produce good people, but secularism is a failure. That I know. I look at Western Europe that can't tell the difference between Israel and those who blow up their children. They can't tell the difference, or they actually support the people who blow up the Israelis' children. That's the most secular place in the world, Western Europe, and it is profoundly profoundly morally confused, if not actually immoral. America is the most religious place in the Western industrialized world, and I think it's the best, with all of its, all of its bad and problems. So I agree, and that's why I, I want this battle to be waged to get people who are religious to think about the most important things, which I do believe still in God's eyes are how we treat each other. Since I have —end with that, I will make the case why I really do believe that God cares more about how we treat each other than how we treat him. And I only knew this when I became a father. It was far more painful to me to see my kids mistreating each other than if my kids mistreated me. Any parent would any day trade in that their kids love each other for that their kids love them. Because if your kids love you and hate each other, you have no happiness. But if they have big problems with you and they all love each other, you are a very happy parent. And God is our Father in Heaven. Till next time, thanks very much.

This has been Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Visit DennisPrager.com for thousands of hours of Dennis' lectures, courses, and classic radio programs, and to purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles.

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