In this episode of the Dennis Prager Show, host Carl interviews Heritage Foundation economist E.J. Antoni, PhD, about President Trump’s economic agenda. Antoni argues that the administration must continue a robust tariff campaign—citing a 25% rate aimed at matching Chinese barriers—to level the playing field for American producers, boost domestic output, increase employment, and accelerate real wage growth. He also emphasizes a deregulatory push, claiming that Biden-era regulations added $60‑70 k in hidden costs per manufacturing worker, inflating consumer prices. Antoni critiques the free‑trade orthodoxy, urging a focus on freeing domestic trade and noting that America’s historic “golden ages” grew under tariff‑funded revenue rather than income taxes. Historical examples are invoked: successful tariff periods under McKinley and Coolidge versus the disastrous Smoot‑Harley Act. The conversation touches on Trump’s advisory team—particularly Scott Bessant and Lutnick—and their influence on tariff strategy and Treasury actions like the CFPB shutdown. Throughout, Antoni frames tariffs as a strategic weapon leveraging American consumer purchasing power, countering political fear‑mongering about price spikes on goods like beer and guacamole.
Chapters
Welcome back to the Dennis Prager Show. I'm speaking to E.J. Antoni, PhD, economist at the Heritage Foundation. Make sure you check him out online on X at Real E.J. Antoni, and you spell Antoni A-N-T-O-N-I. So let me ask you this, E.J. I mean, given the fact that Trump has inherited a horrific economy. I feel like he's got a lot of digging to do. He's got to dig us out of the hole. Biden administration put us over $8 trillion worth of debt. I mean, obviously we got to drill, baby, drill. What are some other ways that— what are some other things in your opinion that Trump needs to do to bring this economy roaring back?
Well, I think continuing the tariff fight has to be a big part of that. You know, we forget that countries like Canada have a tremendous amount of tariff and non-tariff barriers on a lot of American producers, whether we're talking farmers or factory workers. In fact, one of the reasons why Trump chose that 25% rate, I think, was because that's roughly what China puts on a lot of our dairy farmers, for example, on a lot of our car exports. And so what he's really doing is essentially just trying to level the playing field. And if he can get a better deal for, you know, via this tariff fight, then that's gonna make it easier for Americans to export our products around the world. That means you're gonna see an increase in domestic production. That means an increase in employment. It also means faster real wage growth. So all of these things are, are very, very positive for the American worker. Another big push from this president is his deregulatory agenda. That's incredibly important because a huge chunk of the cost of living increase that we saw under the Biden administration actually didn't have anything to do essentially with monetary policy. A lot of it, believe it or not, just had to do with bad regulatory policy. Biden effectively added tens of thousands of dollars in costs for the average American family. And if you look at something like the average manufacturing worker, Carl, while, while let's say the average manufacturing worker has a cost of about $50,000 or $60,000 in terms of their salary, and then another $50,000 in terms of benefit packages. Well, you can add on another $60,000 or $70,000 in terms of regulatory cost burdens that employer effectively has to pay, right? That's a big number. And that's not, that's not a cost that the employee ever gets to see. It's just costs associated with government regulation. And so if you can roll back a lot of that burdensome and frankly ineffective regulation through the deregulatory agenda that Trump has already started to outline, that would have a tremendously positive impact for the American worker and also for the American consumer, because by bringing down business costs, you would bring down the final sale price on a whole lot of products and even services throughout the economy.
So the tariffs, I mean, and you're a free market capitalist, I know this, I know this, E.J., so tariffs shouldn't scare Americans. I mean, we had Chuck Schumer out there fearmongering that beer was gonna be a lot more expensive and guac was gonna be too expensive to afford for Super Bowl Sunday. So your reaction to that, I mean, as a free market capitalist, I mean, typically I hear the term tariff and I'm like, oh, I don't know, but obviously it's advantageous for us at this point in time.
Well, it is, but both for economic as well as non-economic reasons. And look, Carl, this is where I part ways with with a lot of my fellow economists, frankly, they get so bent out of shape talking about free trade. But why is it we only care about trade being free when it's international trade? What about domestic trade? If we are so gosh darn concerned about not taxing trade, why do we allow, for example, that when I trade my labor, why do we allow that to be taxed? We call that the income tax. Why do we have domestic sales taxes? If we really wanna be so concerned about reducing the tax burden when it comes to trade, then we should focus first on freeing our domestic trade and helping our fellow Americans before we worry about helping foreigners. And look, it's not that we hate foreigners, we just love Americans more. And again, if we're gonna worry about reducing tax burdens anywhere, it should be domestically before we worry about internationally also. And just lastly here, Carl, real quick, we should remember that during America's golden age, which Trump speaks about frequently and fondly, we didn't even have a federal income tax. All we had essentially were tariffs to fund the federal government. And that was our fastest sustained economic growth was during that period. So this idea that somehow if we start putting tariffs on things, the whole economy's just gonna collapse, I'm sorry, but both the record of history and economic theory simply do not support that thinking at all.
Correct me if I'm wrong, E.J., You talked about the golden age. There were a couple of periods of American history where tariffs worked beautifully. You had President William McKinley, although, albeit, I believe during his second term, he may have changed his mind on tariffs, but for a period of time, they worked well. And the same was true during the Roaring '20s with Calvin Coolidge, am I wrong?
That's right. So we have plenty of examples, Carl, from history when tariffs were implemented well and also when they were implemented poorly. Probably the most infamous one would be the Smoot-Harley Tariff Act, which was done under Herbert Hoover, a bipartisan Congress, and Hoover signed it into law. So this idea that somehow tariffs are always going to have, you know, one outcome or the other, that's just not what the record of history shows. And so that's why it's so important to go back to how we began this conversation, talking about how America has such incredible leverage today. And America would far and away be the least loser of anyone if we got into a full-fledged trade war. And again, that's a big reason why everyone knows Trump has all the leverage in these negotiations. He has figured out quite brilliantly how to weaponize the purchasing power of the American consumer and really to wield that like a weapon on the world stage. He is doing it incredibly successfully thus far. I would anticipate that to continue.
Yeah, honestly, I've been so impressed by it. I mean, do you think this is Trump? Do you think this is Lutnick in his ear? Scott Bessant in his ear? I mean, I've been— honestly, I've been so impressed with this. It's insane.
I think a lot of it is just Trump being Trump. Now, that's not to say that, you know, guys like Scott Bessant aren't brilliant and they don't have Trump's ear. They certainly do, right? Bessant is incredibly smart. He's a master of sovereign debt markets. I'm so glad that he is at Treasury. I think he's gonna do a wonderful job. I think he's already doing a great job with, you know, what he's done with the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau, shutting down that weaponized branch of government, essentially. Just phenomenal, right? Great guy doing great things for the president. And also I think giving him good advice on tariffs. But I don't want to diminish the fact that Trump is already coming at the tariff conversation from an incredibly great starting point, right? He is already so far ahead, and any additional help that he gets from guys like Besson, that's just icing on the cake in my opinion.
All right, we'll have to leave it there. @RealEJAntony on X, thank you so much, EJ. Appreciate your time.
