Vitamin N: The Parenting Prescription That Works | John Rosemond

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You know, when I think about my stuff, I think in terms of Ecclesiastes. There's nothing new under the sun. I'm just a guy who's articulating timeless principles, one of which is that denial, self-denial is good for the soul. And a child learns to deny himself. Itself by being denied. And the very unfortunate thing is that today's parents don't deny— vitamin N being no, the most character-building two-letter word in the English language— and today's kids are not being denied. The temper tantrums that young people are throwing all over America because what they wanted to happen didn't happen That's coming up on Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager.

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Welcome to Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Hear thousands of hours of Dennis's lectures, courses, and classic radio programs. And to purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles, go to DennisPrager.com.

Hi everybody, I'm Dennis Prager. Welcome to my show. I have on a man whom I respect greatly. I don't remember when I first came across his work, But it was a great moment because the man has the— one of the rarest— what is rare? Let's see, courage is rare, intellectual honesty is rare, and wisdom is rare. And he has— I think he has all three, but it's the wisdom that I'm really focusing on. He's John Rosemond, family psychologist, and who has a column and who's written 14 books, I believe. He's now working on one on the children in Madagascar. He has run out of topics after 14, and so he's really now pretty much concentrating on micro-subjects.

Coming of age in suburbia.

You know, that's right, yes. Oh, is that right? Is that what you're—

No, no.

Oh, you mean in suburban Madagascar.

Oh, right. You know, great idea though.

Thank you, thank you. You know, I just want you to know this is a sort of tactic of mine to see if the person I'm about to interview was listening. I throw in some absurdity, and if there's no reaction, I know, uh-oh, this is— this is going to be a problem interview.

Anyways, doing his nails.

Yeah, that's right, exactly. That's right, checking his email. Exactly. This is John Rosemond, and John Rosemond has the latest Prager University video, and he— it's already at 1.5 million views in 2 days or 3 days. What do I guess? It goes up Monday, so I guess it's 3 days, 2.5 days. In any event, I try to be precise and sometimes it drives people crazy. And it's, is your child getting enough vitamin N? And I, I want to just tell you folks, because I, I I think you'll find this of interest. John, you will find this of interest. There is— I am a religious person, and in Judaism there is a very famous statement in the Talmud, the second holiest work after the Bible, and that is that whoever cites a source brings redemption to the world. It's a beautiful phrase because it says you must all— humans never take credit for something that you don't own. So I have cited vitamin N in almost every speech I have given about children, and of course every single time I say from— this is from Dr. John Rosemond. I just want— I want you to know that, and I want the audience to know that, because I consider it a brilliant insight. Vitamin N. Well, you, you tell everybody what's vitamin N.

Well, first of all, Dennis, you, you honor me and you humble me at the same time. I'm so grateful for uh, what— for our friendship. I mean, I really and truly am. You've been an inspiration to me, and it's, um, it's an honor to know that I've been a, uh, a source, if you will, for you.

Well, thank you. It's a mutual— thank you.

You know, when I think about my stuff, I think in terms of Ecclesiastes. There's nothing new under the sun. I'm just a guy who's articulating, uh, timeless principles, one of which is that denial, self-denial, is good for the soul. And a child learns to deny himself by being denied. And the very unfortunate thing is that today's parents don't deny. Vitamin N being no, the most character-building two-letter word in the English language. And today's kids are not being denied. And, um, to tie this into current events, uh, as I was thinking about the show, I was thinking in terms of the temper tantrums that, uh, young people are throwing all over America because what they wanted to happen didn't happen over the last couple—

that's exactly right—

last week.

It's totally tied in to your theme, the video, and your general theme. Oh, it didn't go my way and I will have a temper tantrum.

Mm-hmm.

I, I, I, now I want to ask you a question because this to me is, is as interesting as the concept itself. When I grew up and, and I believe that I represent most people of the baby boomer generation, although that may not be true. Now that certainly my parents' generation and every generation before them, let's start with my parents. I don't, Telling a child no was natural to parents. It stopped being so. What happened?

Well, I think it was not only natural, I think it was, uh, something parents understood to be an obligation. Um, because these parents, uh, prior to the, the psychological parenting era, which began in the mid-1960s, had what I call a wide-angle view of parenting, Dennis. They they understood that their obligation was not just to the child, which is what today's parents believe. Uh, parents in our parents' generation, to some degree, although it had become considerably diluted and weakened by the time we began having children, understood that proper parenting is an act of love for your neighbor. And they understood as a consequence of that wide-angle view, that they had an obligation to send out into the world, into the community first and into the world, children who were accepting of reality. One such reality being, as articulated by the great 20th century philosopher Mick Jagger, you can't always get what you want. And, um, so yeah, it was felt as an obligation that you tell your child no because this was a reality of life. And furthermore, it was understood that this is the way you produce a well-socialized, highly motivated individual.

Okay, so what happened?

You understand, right? Such thing as a valid entitlement, right?

What happened?

Yeah, what happened is that, uh The 1960s came along, during which time we became a progressive postmodern culture, and, um, uh, the psychological community, the new parenting experts, began manufacturing these nouveau postmodern parenting memes, one of which is that children have a right to express their feelings freely. And so for the first time in parenting in any generation, in any culture, parents began to believe that children's emotional outbursts had meaning.

And, uh, wait, I want, I want, I want that to sink in to my audience. There are times when I visualize what a person is saying and I'm thinking, are people understanding that this would come in italics? So why don't you say that again? For the first time, people— let me repeat it so I could memorize it. For the first time, parents started believing that children's—

children's emotional output had meaning. So that they, that they had some sort of valid content that needed to be deciphered. So, uh, the What was previously, as we are told in the Bible and Proverbs, thought to be nothing but emanations of the foolishness bound in the heart of the child, was suddenly given credence. And, um, you know, one of the questions I ask my audiences is this: raise your hand if when you make a decision that your child doesn't like and your child reacts very emotionally to, you believe that on the basis of your child's emotional reaction, you may have made the wrong decision. And it is amazing, Dennis, uh, I would say 80% of the people in my audiences, and that's a conservative estimate, raise their hands. And this is what's happened to American parenting. Since ironically American parents began listening to people like me, people with capital letters after their names, tell them how to raise kids.

Well, that, that's part of my— that buttresses my belief that college makes you stupid and graduate school makes you stupider.

Because I heard an interview yesterday, uh, with somebody, I forget who it was, who said, how can these, uh, universities be so stupid. Uh, you know, you pay all this money to go to these places that make you dumb.

Yeah, that is exactly right. I'm speaking, everybody, to John Rosemond, the, uh, the nationally famous, and for all I know, internationally famous family psychologist. He has many terrific books. You should absolutely look at them and, uh, and hopefully get some of them. And in any event, His video is the latest Prager University course, Is Your Child Getting Enough Vitamin N? There's a rare opportunity for you to talk to him if you'd like to call. This is how children should be raised for their sake, for your sake, and for society's sake. You are listening to The Dennis Prager Show, 1-800-PRAGER-776.

This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

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Now back to more of Dennis Prager's timeless wisdom.

I'm speaking to John Rosemond. Dennis Prager, one of my favorite people and a magnificent, wise psychologist. His video is up on— at Prager University, "Is Your Child Getting Enough Vitamin N?" Vitamin N is his terrific term for the word "no." I was watching yesterday, and in passing, I don't get to see much TV, but it was on in the family kitchen on the little TV. And Bill O'Reilly had two students on from two different universities, and after they were talking about all of the protests and what they're about, he asked each of them, one female, one male, and he said, so are you for open borders? And the female says, I have no comment. And the male— oh, he was from Tufts, I don't remember where she was from— and the male said, I, uh Let's see, she said, I don't wish to comment on that. And he said, I, uh, well, you know what, I really haven't studied the issue. So they're complaining about cracking down on illegal immigration, but they won't say what their position is on open borders. I, I can't, I can't. It's like I want to talk to you about what 2 and 2 is, but I won't talk to you about 1 and 1 is. And I, I just, I just thought you'd find that interesting. It is, it is all, it's all emotion, and I think it's rooted in the not being told no, your emotions can't direct your life. Any thoughts?

That's romanticism, uh, come to full flower. The, uh, the individual being driven by feelings and the, the, uh and the feelings are, um, uh, are such that they can't even explain them. Uh, they can't articulate why they feel the way that they do. They just feel the way that they do, and they have a right to feel the way that they do. And so, but I don't have a right to say you're wrong. Yeah, right. And, and any evidence to the con— because Dennis Prager, as you well know, I'm the, the, uh, when you are driven by emotion, you are by definition not intellectually honest. And it doesn't matter to this generation of young people what the facts are. They're not even interested in the facts. That's why, uh, the, in my estimation, the girl has no opinion and the guy hasn't, uh, studied the issue enough. But they'll get out in the street and they'll scream and yell about the fact that Donald Trump is not for open borders, but they don't understand the issue at all. It's just another opportunity to vent their sacred emotions.

Life is not ideal, and I will, I will have a temper tantrum.

Yeah, but to this generation, this generation has been nurtured in a way that causes them to believe that life has no meaning if life, uh, has no soap opera. And so this generation of young people takes every opportunity to manufacture personal soap operas and collective soap operas out of the mundane.

That's so true. It's, uh, the drama queen generation produced by the parents and by the culture. There are so many people who have questions for you, and since it's so rare to get to have this opportunity opportunity for people. I'm going to go to some calls. Is that okay?

Yeah, yeah, that's fine.

Okay, so again, I have the, the family psychologist John Rosemond on, and we'll go to Los Angeles and Miriam. Miriam, hi, Dennis Prager and John Rosemond.

Hello, Miriam.

Hi, um, a lot. And, uh, Mr. Rosemond, I, uh saw your video of Vitamin N. I showed it to my husband the other night because he believes, you know, if we should provide the technology and whatever, you know, the kids need to, you know, excel in school. And I told them we can't give them everything all the time. So I showed him the video, and lo and behold, this morning we had a disagreement because I find out that, um, he gave my kids a dollar to make their bed, and I was so upset about it. And I said, didn't we just— like, I showed you this video, and you know, it made so much sense. And you know, I just want to get a different perspective. Am I, am I upset to be wrong at him? I You know, I don't believe, uh, he said, oh, I like to reward good behavior. And I said, but that's, that's their responsibility, that's their duty. It's not, you know, they're not supposed to get paid for making their bed. He's like, yeah, but it was just a dollar. I said, it doesn't matter.

All right, let's— I'm very— I'm as curious as you are to hear John Rosemond's response.

Go ahead. Well, I hate to take sides in these family disputes, Miriam, but It's more than an issue of responsibility, it's an issue of obligation. And that's what today's kids are not being taught within their families, is any sense of obligation to their parents or their families. And your husband's very well-intentioned behavior is an example of that. I was speaking to I was in Hawaii about a year ago and I was doing a workshop and a fellow came up and introduced himself as a submarine commander. And he said, John, this entitlement attitude has even infected the military at the level of submarine command, which is the most demanding of all military jobs. That's arguable, but it it, uh, it, it's probably, probably true. And he said, uh, this— these young people who qualify for submarine work, um, they don't understand that they have been given a privilege. Uh, I tell them to do something and they basically ask me, what am I going to get if I do it?

Wow.

Wow. This is the biggest problem I deal with in submarine command.

His answer should be, you get to stay on the submarine. Yeah, that's what you get.

Precisely. But isn't that mind-blowing?

Yeah, no, that is a— where did you hear this?

In Hawaii, from a submarine.

Oh, I see. Okay, great. Oh, you were speaking at a workshop in Hawaii?

Yeah.

All right, I want to, I want to bounce off a theory, uh, when I asked you why this is happening And I— your answer was superb, and I, I agree. Is another possibility— and we just take a break and then we'll hear your response— is another possibility that parents want to be loved by their children at every moment of their lives? We shall be back. I'm speaking to the psychologist John Rosemond. His video course is up at Pray University.

This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

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Now back to more of Dennis Prager's timeless wisdom.

Well, I have the man on. In not even 3 days, they got 1.5 million views. On YouTube and Facebook, and it'll, it'll go into the millions. And as it should. If every parent saw this, we would have a better America and a better world. Vitamin N is the word no, and it's the one vitamin kids don't seem to be getting. And it's been, it's been at least a generation. So I asked you a question, and then by the way, I want to, want to comment on Miriam's call about the, the paying for the kid a dollar to make the bed. But I wanted you to respond to this. When I asked you why this has happened, the coddling, and you gave this excellent response about needing to validate every emotional outburst. So is another possibility that parents want to be loved too much and too consistently?

Yeah, well, it's not— I would I'm not disagreeing.

Oh, you can, by the way. I don't know, I just want you to—

I know I can.

Okay, okay, go ahead.

I know I can, but I'm not. I just want to make that clear proactively that I would change the word to like because I think there is a substantial difference. I think that today's parents want to be liked by their kids. And one of the things that I talk about quite often in my books, newspaper column, and public presentations is that over the last 50 years since we began listening to psychologists tell us how to raise kids, and this is largely an artifact of the psychological parenting paradigm, parents have substituted the desire for relationship with their children for the obligation to provide leadership to their children. They don't understand anymore that proper parenting is an act of leadership. They believe now that it's an act of relationship. And as a consequence of this, Dennis, the norm in American parenting, especially in the mother-child relationship, has become codependency. Today's parents, when there's no emotional boundary between parent and child, especially mother and child. When the child feels something, the mother feels it. The child fails, the mother feels that she has failed. The child is bullied, the mother feels that she's been bullied. The child gets upset about something, the mother feels that herself to be in a state of angst. And so the consequence of this is that there is lacking in the life of the average American child someone who will represent reality correctly to the child. Someone who will say when the child has an inappropriate emotional outburst, which 90% of children's emotional outbursts are inappropriate. That this is ridiculous, this, uh, this has no bearing on anything, etc., etc., etc. You and I are members of the last generation of American parents, of American children whose parents, uh, felt the obligation to discipline not only our behavior but to discipline our thoughts and our emotions as well. And today's parents only— you know, it's another topic entirely— but they, they think of discipline strictly in terms of behavior. And so today's children, uh, don't think straight, and they don't feel straight either.

That's so fascinating. I tell people, they say, where did you learn how to speak? And you know, because people— at least people— well, many people, obviously not all, but many people I feel that I have a lot of clarity in my thought, and I do believe I do. And I think it's both a gift from God or nature, and I also believe that I learned it at the table, at the dinner table in my house, where I was the youngest of the two boys by 6 years, and they didn't care if I said something incoherent. They said, what are you talking about? That's nonsense. And so I got at a very early age a voice in me saying, "Is that nonsense? Did you just say nonsense?" So I so understand what you said. I just want to return to Miriam's point on the dollar for making the bed. One possible response I would think is also, in addition to yours, is, because I I want, as you pointed out, the father, the husband has only goodwill here. But one possibility is that I'll give you a dollar for making the bed and you pay for the food. I'm obligated to feed you, you're obligated to make your bed. We'll get John Rosemond's response in a moment.

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My guest is the terrific John Rosemond, the family psychologist, gives these seminars around America, and he has the latest Prager University course up, Is Your Child Getting Enough Vitamin N? That's the word no. So I had raised the issue of perhaps saying, well, if we pay you for making your bed, you pay us for room and board because as a way of explaining to the kid, although from your perspective, and I agree with you, you know, explanations I assume are not always necessary. This is what you do. You're— you have a bed, make it. But nevertheless, it would be an interesting way of explaining, I have obligations to you and you have obligations to the family. Is that fair?

Today's parents, uh, they lack confidence in the legitimacy of their authority, Dennis. That's why they don't feel that they have the right, if you will, to tell their children, this is what you're going to do, and then when the child asks why, answer with, because I said so. You don't need another explanation. You know, you're, you're on the dole here. I pay for your life. I am not obligated to, to justify any decision that I make in your life. I am not obligated to justify any instruction I give you. And, you know, parents say, oh, that's mean, that's, you know, that's heartless. I say, you know, it's very, very traditional. And the interesting thing is that The mental health of children who heard that, our generation, Dennis, is statistically 10 times better than the mental health of today's kids who don't hear that. So I'm not saying our mental health as children was entirely dependent upon because I said so, but I am saying that it was dependent largely upon a clarity that existed, uh, in our relationships with our parents and other adult authority figures during our childhoods. Milwaukee is lacking today.

Yes, totally. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Vince. Hi, Vince, you're on with Dennis Prager and John Rosemond. Hi.

Hello, uh, I would even like to know how the doctor would recommend countering behaviors like this when you when you're dealing with a situation where somebody has told the child that they have anxieties and dealing with issues like that, how do you, you know, the things that are used as an excuse. And so I'd like to hang up and listen to your comments. Okay. Well, I don't know who it is that's told your child, Vince, that he has anxieties, but this is, I mean, you know, there are certain anxieties that are legitimate. Legitimate, certain anxieties are the result of legitimate trauma, etc., etc., etc. And I use the word legitimate because a lot of what is, a lot of what people, and especially young people, are claiming to be traumatic is by historical, traditional, rational standards not traumatic at all. It's just that we've raised a generation of children who have no emotional resiliency. But, um, forgive me, that, that's why they have safe rooms at colleges. Yeah, that's why they're giving them therapy dogs and letting them curl up in corners and suck their thumbs collectively and so on and so forth. Um, it's, it's just absurd what, uh, what has happened to, to today's kids, and tragic at the same time. I mean, you know, I, I, a lot of what, uh, I talk about when I talk about today's kids can be interpreted as criticisms And really, I'm not criticizing today's children. I'm trying to help American parents understand that our obligation to God and America is to raise competent human beings. And competency is largely a fact not of your IQ. It's a— it's largely a function of your emotional resiliency. And the manufacturing of personal soap operas, uh, such as "I have test anxiety," is rampant in American youth culture today. You know, I hear this, you know, "My child has test anxiety." I had to pass a written exam on the United States Constitution in the 8th grade in order to go to high school. I mean, talk about test anxiety. Today's kids don't understand what test anxiety is. You know, anything that provokes a little distress is suddenly a reason to go to a therapist. It's absurd.

Yeah, think of distressed parents as a vaccine. It's, I think it's an analogy that works for me in any event. All right, let's, uh, let's go on. Uh, let me, let me summarize some calls and callers, please forgive me. I'll try to get to some, but I get more done if I do this. Uh, so let's see, Aaron in Los Angeles makes, I think, a very important point. In such a wealthy society, uh, that people find it harder to say no to kids. They already have so much. Any thoughts on the affluent society?

Well, it's— but it's not just affluence, Dennis. It's what you raised earlier, and that is that today's parents, you know, number one, they want relationship with their children. And, you know, another way of looking at this is that they have no long-term vision. It's very interesting when I ask parents to write down a 10-word and phrase description of the adult they want want their child to be when their child is 30 years old, they always write down things like emotionally resilient, compassionate, responsible, you know, good sense of work ethic, etc., etc. But when I ask, what have you done specifically, purposefully in the last week to promote any of that?

Oh good, I want to hear that. This is awesome. John Rosemond, my guest, back in a moment.

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Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.

I could have John Rosemond on for all 3 hours and then do it again tomorrow and then the next day. The only problem is he's going to send me a bill.

I would not do that.

Okay, all right, good. I'm glad you— no, no, I was important.

I'd love that.

I would love it too. John Rosemond, uh, his books should all be read and his video is up this week. And of course, obviously forever at theprageruniversity.com, and it's already past a million and a half views. And I believe it's a moral obligation for people to have people raising children see it. Anyway, you have this brilliant thing that you were just saying. Almost everything you say is so, so sharply focused. So you ask parents, what would you like your child to be at 30? And then you ask them, so what have you done this week? In order to foster that. Is that correct?

Yeah, I'm trying to illustrate to them that, uh, uh, intuitively they really do want to raise their children according to what we are told, what God tells us in Deuteronomy chapter 6, verses 6 and 7, uh, to paraphrase that it's all about your child's character. I tell parents all the time, Dennis, um, God does not care what your child's grades are in school. God does not care what, uh, how many trophies your child wins on the athletic field. God does not care what college your child goes to. God wants you to raise, uh, children who love him, and that is all about, uh, character. And I tell people, you know, there are two, two pressing obligations in the raising of a child. One is to honor God and the other is to make America a better place. And so as part of this, this whole diatribe that I do, this whole exercise, I have people write down a 10-word and phrase description of the adult they want their child to be when their child is 30. And interestingly enough, every descriptor is a descriptor of character. Nobody puts in there, I want my child to be the, uh, Governor of California, or brilliant, nobody, or even brilliant, or even brilliant. Nobody puts that down. It's all character. And I say, okay, now, now that you understand what your job is, and, and you understand that you intuitively know what your job is, uh, vis-à-vis this, this exercise, write down something. I'll give you 5 minutes. Tell me one thing you have done purposefully, intentionally to promote any of these character values in the last week.

All right, we gotta leave it at that. That's awesome.

People can't do it.

That's right, that's exactly right. See his video, go to his website, it's at DennisPrager.com. You see his website, read his books.

Thanks so much.

I give you a big hug, sir. I'm a big—

likewise, returned.

Thank you, thank you so much. Please see the video and give your child vitamin N.

Tomorrow On Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager.

The missing tile syndrome is when we focus on the one thing we don't have. No matter how much you have, you focus on what is missing. I do too, by the way. It's not— when I say you, I am a member of this group of humanity. If folks— if I didn't have these issues I couldn't have written my book. That book was as much about me as it is about you. The only difference is I've thought it through and I have tried to put these principles into practice and they work.

Join us tomorrow to hear more on Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Visit DennisPrager.com for thousands of hours of Dennis's lectures, courses, and classic radio programs, and to purchase Dennis Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles. We want to take just a second to thank the team at Life Audio for their partnership with us on the podcast. Go to lifeaudio.com to find dozens of other faith-centered podcasts in their network, including shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and more.

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