Practice Growth Deep Dive: Dr. Kartik Antani

Surround yourself with people that are positive, that are willing to uplift you. I have a group of close friends from dental school, and you know, we all have bad days, but we try to find ways to uplift each other. So yeah, clinical mentor, business mentor, mind shift mentor. It's going to be difficult whether you're an associate or a business owner. Dentistry is difficult.

This is Growth in Dentistry, a Dental Intelligence podcast where we ask the question, what does growth in dentistry mean to I'm Steve Jensen, a data dental nerd and your host. Welcome back everyone. Super excited for another episode. Now my guest today is Dr. Kartik Antani. I'm super excited for you guys to get to know him. A customer of DI. He's been in dentistry for a good number of years and these are some of my favorite episodes. For those who haven't joined us before for a practice deep dive, these are an opportunity to get to know other dentists, people that are doing the same thing that you're doing, understand what makes them tick, what got them into dentistry, what keeps them in dentistry, how they're thinking about their business, how they're thinking about their patients, how they're thinking about their teams. And I just find them so helpful and so fascinating. There's so much we can learn from others' stories. So super excited to have him today. Now, before I jump in and ask him questions, help you guys get to know him, a couple quick shoutouts. A huge shoutout to the team at Dental Intelligence for sponsoring this. Week after week. A lot of work goes into producing these episodes, so a huge shout out to them. As always, they have a, a sweet promo for listeners. So if you've not checked out DI in a while, they've got some really new features they've added. They'll give you a $50 gift card just for getting a demo. So you'll see the link to that demo in the show notes. Okay, with that out of the way, Kartik, let's, uh, let the world meet you, man. Tell us, uh, you're out in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Why don't you tell folks like what what got you in dentistry? When did you graduate dental school? And share, uh, share a little bit about your story.

Yeah, man, definitely, Stephen. So thanks for having me on, by the way. I really appreciate your time. Uh, yeah, I got into dentistry— my mom, before she retired, was a dental assistant. I met a few dentists of friends of hers as a kid. And you know, when you go to the kid as a dentist, you're looking at, you know, the Highlights magazines and all the fun stuff, and dentists is hanging out in the corner and drinking coffee and So it was— that was kind of like my first introduction to dentistry. It was, um, very fond memories. And then, you know, in, in high school and then in college, I always wanted to do something medical related. I was a biology major. So, but anyway, long story short, that's how I got into dentistry. And, um, probably like a bunch of people who are, you know, first-generation dentists, they probably didn't know what they were walking into. Yeah, luckily for me, I really enjoyed dental school. I really enjoyed— I enjoy still to the day dentistry.

And where'd you go to school?

I went to Rutgers School of Dental Medicine, graduated in 2014.

Sweet.

And then I did a residency at Monmouth Medical Center in Long Branch, Jersey.

Cool. And also you— and then you've come a long way. What got you to Albuquerque?

Uh, well, I wanted to leave New Jersey for many reasons. Um, Partly because I always wanted to find myself a niche or an area where it was underserved. You know, when you're the only guy around, your value goes up. And not that New Mexico is very underserved— it, yeah, it's relatively underserved— but also because I just didn't like the cold anymore and a few other things. And, uh, you know, I thought to myself that, look, my, uh, my decision to stay in Jersey if I, uh, if I continue to practice, practice after residency or buy a practice, then I won't get the opportunity to explore. And I didn't know initially that that was going to be permanent. You know, I thought about moving to Texas, go for a couple years. I had some friends out there, see how it's like. And then I got introduced to, um, you know, a couple of offices in New Mexico and started working in Roswell, New Mexico, of all places. With the aliens. And, and so anyway, I actually really enjoyed, um, that town. I still have some friends there. And, uh, I didn't want to live somewhere really small because I was still trying to explore. So Albuquerque ended up being a good match between, um, the small town vibes that I wanted plus, uh, plus some of the bigger city amenities and some of the culture that I was missing. So I kind of ended up finding a good medium for myself here.

Yeah, one of the questions I'm going to ask you— I've got a couple of, of kids that I mentor, they're in dental school right now, and I think a really common question, you know, there's some of those students listen to the podcast and they're trying to decide like, hey, do I— should I, should I go work for a DSO right out of school to kind of like get my bearings straight and, you know, maybe have in their minds like a secure way of learning and an income, or should I come straight out and buy a practice? Tell us, tell me how you were thinking coming out of dental school.

Yeah, I'll tell you what I was thinking about 10 years ago, and I'll also tell you what I would do now if I was doing it, right? So, you know, of course I always wanted to own my own practice. I always wanted to actually grow my practices. At one point we were at 3 locations, uh, and a sleep apnea business, so we were, you know, 4 different business entities to handle. And knowing that, it was always in the back of my mind. I took dental education very seriously, but I also knew that I had to learn the business of dentistry. Yeah, which is not something that's taught. But my recommendation back then, and even now, this is— this hasn't changed, is make sure you do a residency, even if it's a general practice residency, AGD. If you're not thinking about specializing, do the— do the residency. It's well worth that one year. You know, I know people are worried about student loans and moving on with your life. Trust me, that one year is worth it. And then back then, you know, I, uh, I, I got some job offers from private offices as well as DSOs. And I'm not one to say one is better than the other. It depends on the circumstances. It depends on the office itself. Even within DSOs, one location versus another can be completely different. Totally. So I kind of approach it with an open mind, you know. I did work for DSO even during residency. We were allowed to moonlight back in Jersey, and I also worked for DSO the first couple years that I was in New Mexico. Different, uh, from private practice for sure, but I, I would say that when you're a dental student Think about your future. Think about the fact that you don't know much when you leave dental school, especially nowadays where it's been challenging to get a good education after COVID times. Go approach it with an open mind. Take as many CEs as you can. If you happen to find yourself a good job working for a decent DSO, take it. You know, they have ways to support you with CEs and, and other things that a private office may not be able to. You know, propel your career that way. If you happen to find a great mentor in private office, do that. But initially, find a way to be mentored. Have an open mind, find the right people, be mentored, learn as much as you can before you buy your practice. And if you choose to buy your practice, really think about it. It's a big responsibility. Again, find a mentor, find a non-clinical mentor, go to some business courses, listen to business podcasts, talk to people who have done it. It's not always rosy, but it's also not always thorns. Mm-hmm.

So yeah, what I'm hearing you say is like, uh, you know, just like listening to the advice, you know, you, you kind of highlighted this reality that like you people have heard this before, but like we, we kind of, we kind of become the, the 5 closest people we surround ourselves with, right? And work is one of those places where like man, that matters so much. So, you know, you can— if you can find— I think that's, that's a great mindset to have, is like, hey, it's less about like which business specifically, or maybe even which business model, and it's like, can you put yourself in a position where when you look at the, you know, the people close to you— and that can be business mentors as well as clinical mentors— can you put yourself in a position where you're like, man, like, I really aspire— like, that person is lifting my vision for what I want to do with my life. And my career. And those are the positions you really want to pursue, right?

You know, and may I interject, also mindset mentor. Surround yourself with people that are positive, that are willing to uplift you. I have a group of close friends from dental school, and you know, we all have bad days, but we try to find ways to uplift each other. So yeah, clinical mentor, business mentor, mind shift mentor. It's going to be difficult whether you're an associate or a business owner Dentistry is difficult, you know. So when you do that number 15 DO and you just don't know why you did it, you know, have yourself a support system of people. They don't have to be dentists, they can just be positive people you surround yourself with.

Yeah. Now talk me through— so you went and worked for— you said, you said you did your, um, your residency in New Jersey, and then you came out and worked for a group for, you said, 3 years. And then is that when you went— is that when you went and bought a practice? Talk us through that.

Like, yes.

So why did you leave and why did you go buy a practice? Like, what was the catalyst? So you're like, okay, I've got to go take this bet on myself.

Well, for me, the ambition was always there to be a business owner and to, uh, in— yes, you have— you want to create a certain type of lifestyle. That's why you choose the hard way.

Yeah.

Um, but there's also ambition. There's also maybe, uh, leaving a bigger footprint. You know, being a positive source. So at that point, my business partner and I saw— and we saw opportunities here where you could create a decent, you know, uh, an office from, from buying an underserved office. So that's what we did. Our first office was sort of underserved. The doctor was retiring. He was a very nice guy, but he was retiring. And, um, you know, there was no dental intelligence in that practice. There was no notion of having systems and, and, uh, KPIs. And so, and, you know, back then we didn't know all that either, you know, we were just new guys that were just starting out. So we— that's what we did, we bought practices that were in need of a doctor or in need of some leadership, and we added values. And that's what we did 3 times over.

And to end, so that was— you grew to 3 locations by By what, 2020? 2020. So this was probably— was that like in the course of 3 years? I'm just kind of doing the math. So it's probably like 2016, 2017, stepped out, started doing—

it was, it was kind of like 2017, 2018, and then 2020.

Okay, grew up to 3. Yeah. And it was you and a business partner?

Yeah, yeah, we're still best buddies. He's part of my, uh, support system. He's part of the group.

Now tell, tell me lessons learned there, because that's like one of the things I've met so many dentists that are like, okay, I want to go and do more locations. And sometimes it's like, oh, hey, that went well, you know, and they don't know why. And sometimes it went well and they do know why. And sometimes it doesn't go well and they're not sure why. And sometimes it doesn't go well and they do know why. Talk me through kind of that path. Have you kept, do you still have all 3 locations or have you changed what your focus is and what you're doing?

Yeah, I changed my focus in life a little bit. So, you know, he still has one practice. I still have my own practice. We sold a third. It was just getting to be, uh, very difficult to find, find and keep docs in New Mexico. It's, it's underserved for a reason.

Yeah.

And I also think it's underrated. I think more people should be aware of the pros and cons of anywhere, but, you know, pay attention to some of the places that you may not have heard of.

Yeah.

And so we scaled down to basically one each now.

Yeah.

And yeah, a lot of lessons learned along the way. We, we just, like you said, we still don't know why some things worked out, some didn't. You know, why did— why did something work out in one location but not the third one? Yeah, it's difficult. I mean, you— it's, it's, it's like an ongoing struggle. You see all these bigger DSOs with, you know, 20, 30, 40, 100, 500 locations. Yeah, they're constantly struggling to keep up with systems because systems change, people change. You know, your, your KPIs are math, but along with math you have to have people skills and Yeah, all that. So I forget about dynasty for a second. Why do— why does a company like Apple that quote unquote has figured out continue to improve, continue to bring in new talent and manage old talent? Because it's necessary. Yep. So the answer is, I don't know. Sometimes things work, sometimes they don't. But even the biggest companies in the world trying to figure it out as they go.

Yeah, that is one of the things that I'll say too, you know. I've been running running with things at DI for 8 years. And, you know, I look back and it's like, ah, we solve, we solve a lot of the same problems over again too, because it's like, oh man, like now, you know, this thing that worked when we had 1,000 customers, all of a sudden when we have 10,000, it's like, oh, that's not gonna, it's not gonna work the same, you know. We have to like rethink about that problem we solved. And you have that too in businesses, you know, where it's like what worked, what worked at one location or 3 locations might not work at, you know, 5 or 6 or more, you know. So it's this constant, constant battle. And, um, and then sometimes, you know, you have to get some outside, outside eyes that are like, oh yeah, no, I've, I've like, I've grown a business in a similar way. Yeah. And I see what problem you're facing, and let me give you a few tips. For sure.

Yeah. I love how, you know, we get a doctorate and we don't even know how to do a root canal properly after dental school.

Yeah.

But all of a sudden we think that, okay, I'm a doctor, I know how to run a business. Yeah, you don't. So you have to get that outside help. You have to work on your clinical skills as a new grad, or basically throughout your life, right?

Yeah.

You also have to work on your business skills. And once you figure out something, that solution may be the right solution for a period of time. Yeah. But things change, people change, so you have to constantly learn and evolve.

Yeah.

Now let's talk— if you're cool, can we talk about the practice you have now? So you guys scaled up to 3. And ended up selling one. Each— you and your business partner have kept your individual practices. And for the listeners, you probably know, if you haven't been here before, I welcome on high-performing practices. So Dr. Kartik runs a high-performing practice. They're doing a great job. Uh, their case acceptance is really exceptional, which tells me a lot about the relationship they develop with the patients, which I think also speaks to systems, right? Like the way in which they welcome new patients in and the way that they treat them and the way that they present And the way, the way that they ask, you know, for payment and all those things, you know, all combine into, you know, above average annual patient values and those types of things too, where it's like they've got a good thing going. Um, so talk me through, Doctor, like maybe when, when you were scaling, did your location now suffer at all? And then have you changed kind of what success means for your single location? And then maybe tell people like What kind of dentistry do you focus on? Are you really doing bread and butter kind of the longer you're out of dental school? I think you mentioned maybe you've done some stuff in sleep. Are you doing more of that in the practice? Talk us through kind of your mindset of business owner and kind of what fires you up about, you know, the next 20+ years of your career.

Sure.

Well, let me answer the simple question first, which is that when you scale up, does your existing practice or practices, do they suffer? They do. Yeah, you know, especially if you're left without a doctor or a hygienist or whatever. They do. It's the reality of it. You have to use, uh, some tactical sense to figure out how you're going to keep all the plates spinning. And, uh, that's important for anyone to— that has scaled up or wants to scale up to know. And, and so, you know, um, I also found that Managing 3, 3, 4 businesses, depending on how you look at it, makes it much easier for me to handle one business.

Yeah.

And there's, there's a beauty in scaling down because now I can really focus on my day-to-day with patients and my day-to-day team. I'm not constantly stressed out about, oh man, that procedure I did at the other location of the day, I wonder how the patient's doing. Yeah, this is one location. The patient just come see me right away, right away if they have a problem. Yeah. And also, you know, just like we keep those plates spinning, within those plates are your systems, you know, and they get a little wobbly. And sometimes you, you lose a system or two that you, you, you thought was running well because you weren't there to keep up with it. That happens all the time, including with bigger companies. So now I'm— since I'm focusing on one practice, it gives me the opportunity to really build that relationship with my team, my patients. And you were mentioning case acceptance. It starts with the phone call. We all know that the first phone call, it starts with your genuine way of explaining things. I— intro cameras help a lot, software helps a lot, but ultimately, you know, the patient's coming in with a toothache, you're trying to talk to them about veneers. Okay, maybe you didn't read the room properly. So a lot of that comes down to your, um, you know, personality, your common sense, and just treating people like people. You know, if Grandpa comes in and you're talking to them about, you know, cosmetic whitening, and he's like, Doc, I just want my partial fixed, then you're, you're, you're not quite on the same track as they are. So you have to try to listen to the patient first You know, you've got two ears, so you should be doing twice as much listening as talking because you only have the one mouth, right? So you listen first. We have forms, uh, and, you know, we send them out electronically ahead of time where we ask questions, you know, are you proactive, are you reactive, do you only want to be taken care of when you're in pain? If you tell me that, then I'm not going to bore you. I'll let you know that, hey, something's up, but it's up to you. But if you're talking on your, you know, on the form that You're very, very nervous. You're anxious. You know, you are proactive, but it took you 10 years to get to the dentist again because you had a bad experience. All those things go into case acceptance as well. And when you have, you know, a smaller operation, you can really dial those in before you scale up. And when you do scale up, you will lose some of those tight— tightness. You're— you will have some leaks in the bucket no matter what.

Yeah, I think one of the things too I think people won't forget is like nobody, nobody's going to care about your business the way that you care about your business. Now you can find some rock stars, you can find some absolute rock stars, but kind of as you scale and you start, you know, the way you think about it is, hey, I want to go create some like mini-mes within the organization and train them up. And you have to, you know, as a founder, you have to kind of scale. Obviously you keep your expectations really high because you want to fly, but at the same time, like realistically, you have to kind of unless you want to lose your mind, probably bring expectations down to say, okay, like they're probably going to be like an 80% of me or an 85% of me and be okay with some of those missteps and be okay with some of that, which is important. Yeah, that's an interesting thought. I love what you said about when you started pushing your boundaries and comfort level up into 3, maybe 4, depending on how you count the sleep stuff. And then scaling back down, that makes it so that now that you're down to one location, you're like, oh, this is like, this is bread and butter. This feels like more simple. So what are some of those like main lessons you feel like you learned, Doctor, where you're like, oh, okay, some of, maybe even some of the things that you're not gonna care about. What are like the, what are like the primary things where like, okay, this is what really matters?

You know, first of all, I don't wanna belittle anyone that's a practice owner because scaling up or down doesn't matter. There's always a constant level of stress, for sure, as a practice owner. And, you know, being a dentist is hard enough. Being a practice owner is like exponentially harder. So, you know, hopefully when, when people listen to me speak, they're not thinking that, oh, this guy's kind of a jerk, that, you know, just one practice is so easy. It's not. Yeah. And so those lessons can be— that you're asking about can be applied to bigger organizations or to a single practice. Yeah, you know, you, you've got to have discipline and you have to have that mindset. You know, you just mentioned that you're never going to be at 100%. Yeah, you, you got to count the blessings in your day and move on, you know, because, um, you, you, you cannot make a bunch of mini-mes. And your team can be the best, but they are not you. Yeah, so I'll take an 85 to 90 all day long because most teams are functioning at 50. Yeah, so, you know, the lessons— if you want to get into tactical lessons, then having the right type of answering system, you know, how do you answer phone calls, how do you track your marketing, how are you doing your insurance verification, how are you doing your case acceptance, are you tracking your case acceptance, did Mr. Smith ever call you back. Yeah, right. Um, how are you tracking your AR? All of those lessons are difficult to learn, and I've learned them all. It doesn't matter how many gurus and pros are out there, they're all doing a great job, but until you have the problem yourself and you have to figure it out, maybe with the help of some of those experts in the field, it's a tough lesson to learn, but you got to learn it if you want to, if you want to succeed. And you know, you were mentioning the sleep apnea thing. It has given me the opportunity to focus more on that and build those relationships with sleep physicians and cardiologists and pulmonologists and all these different folks that need our help to make the patients better instead of just running around trying to solve practice management problems. You know, a clinician should be a clinician at the forefront of it.

So actually, I'm curious, maybe let's go along those lines. I mentioned to learn like clinically, what are you doing that's interesting? So you got sleep apnea, you're doing general dentistry. Have you started to do some of the super dentist stuff where you're doing implants or All-on-4s, how you're bringing some of that in-house? Talk us through that.

Yeah, so definitely general dentistry, and I don't mind if I have a procedure that maybe my hygienist can do. If she's busy, I'll do it. I don't care. Yeah. Um, and of course crown, bridge, restorative, um, sleep apnea. Uh, craniofacial pain, TMJ, that kind of goes hand in hand with sleep apnea. Yeah, we do sedation dentistry, we do implants, we do aligners. I don't love endos, I don't do a lot of it.

Cool.

I probably do very little of it. And I don't really love, uh, All-on-X yet, um, uh, or over dentures. I've done a lot of those in the past, but they're just not my favorite at the moment. But in the past, sleep apnea wasn't one of my favorites until I learn more about it. So there's always that constant evolution as a clinician too, you know. I find my happy place in getting folks out of pain, getting them out of their anxiety with sedation, making them feel good about themselves, and more importantly, helping them with craniofacial pain, helping them with maybe underlying sleep apnea issues. I may not even have to treat them. I might just screen them and refer them to a doc, get a CPAP, be healthy. I don't care. But it's important to, to screen them at least.

Yeah. So can you talk us through a little bit maybe of what you do on the sleep apnea side? So you do the screenings and then what else?

When you definitely do the screening treatment yourself? Yeah, yeah, we definitely do the screenings. We, we, we do referrals to sleep physicians and, you know, a lot of times they'll refer patients back to us that are CPAP intolerant or they want to do the mandibular advancement device. So of course we take care of them. And a lot of times it goes hand in hand with TMJ issues, craniofacial pain. So sometimes you can solve two problems with one solution, you know. So we screen our own patients for sure because we worry about their health overall. Yeah, you know, why did you break the tooth? There must have been a reason for it. Why are your teeth so worn down? There must be a reason for it. Yeah, and then we screen them, we refer them to sleep physicians, And they refer back. They don't sleep physicians. They need help too.

Yeah.

And they're referring back. So they go and do the sleep test with the physician, like they're monitored, measured, and everything.

They'll do the sleep test and they'll— most of the time I recommend trying the CPAP first.

Yeah.

And if they're not able to tolerate the CPAP or they just need an MAD and the sleep physician is okay with it, they'll send them back to us with a prescription. And we do build medical insurance as well.

So that's my next question, is have you taken on the medical billing portion? Yeah, I do think about adding that into the business. Did you have a team member trained? Do you use a solution for that?

Yeah, it's, it's tough. Uh, medical billing is one of those things that is the hardest part for a lot of folks, especially if they're really passionate about sleep dentistry but they're not able to, you know, get patients the care they need and still be able to generate the revenue that they need to keep the practice going. Yeah, medical billing is one of the toughest things, and we've gone through a couple of vendors, and now we're with a vendor who really knows what they're doing. They're one of the best in the industry. And if anyone's thinking about sleep, uh, don't cut corners. Don't, don't go with like someone that's not, uh, you know, up to par with, um, how they screen patients, how they get medical insurance taken care of. Yeah, just go with the best you can, and there are a lot of resources out there for that too.

Okay, cool.

Yeah, because that— I know I've sat in, you know, I'm not a dentist, but I go out to these conferences and I sit in every course that I can because I'm just interested, you know, like, how are, how are folks thinking about, you know, holistic health and what's happening with the mouth? And, you know, it's so critical to the rest of what goes on with our bodies. And so as a as a patient and as a dental nerd and data guy on the side. I'm just always interested to hear, and I know that's one of the big issues is like, okay, how do I think about medical billing? So there are solutions out there. I like the advice to just like find the best solution. And you mean like as a dentist, like something you actually believe in, where you're like clinically that's a really thoughtful way to approach treatment and care and taking care of the patients?

And you know, we as clinicians, most of us— I know some won't, but most of us will try to find the best, uh, clinical material for the patient, right? We'll try to find the best sealer, the best bond, the best whatever for the patient. But for some reason, we love to take, uh, shortcuts and cut corners when it comes to running our business.

Yeah.

You know, find the right marketing people, find the right billing people. And I'm not again making light of this because this is very difficult to do.

Yeah.

But over time, you talk to enough people, you, you, you weed out the people that are just trying to make money off you. Yeah, and you find yourself with good options, and you have to be the one to take those steps. And, you know, then now instead of just finding the best bond for your patient, maybe try to find the best marketing for your patients so they can find you, and the best biller so they can actually, you know, get some reimbursement back from, uh, for their sleep apnea or for their root canal or whatever you did for them.

Yeah, I like that advice, especially like I'm bringing it back to the beginning of our conversation. I think what made you want to go expand more locations is kind of that pursuit of best. Like, how can I expand myself? And I think there's a lot of listeners that have one location that don't want to do more than one location. And I think you can still learn a lot of really interesting lessons in the pursuit of excellence with a single location, you know?

So I like—

absolutely, I like the way that you're talking because it's like, no, okay, I can go— hopefully as you're listening, you're thinking, oh wow, I like the way that Dr. Kartik's thinking because I can go I can go do some of what you just said in my own, in my own practice, you know?

Absolutely. You know, there's, there's a different answer for every person. Just run the practice to, to the way you want to run it, but make sure it's compliant, obviously. And make sure you do the, the best job you can before you think about expanding. And you may not want to. I mean, life can be really good with one location, and you're serving the people that need to be— need your help and taking care of your team.

Uh, resource-wise, I'm actually— this is just me interested. I've never asked a guest this, but, you know, knowing that you've leaned probably on friends and then like materials, like where, where from a business perspective or clinical, like what are some of the resources where you're like, yeah, that stuff's actually helpful. There are other podcasts, you can shout out other podcasts, you can shout out organizations where you're like, yeah, this is how I've kind of thought about centering myself around excellence that's been helpful for you.

Well, okay, so, um, let me see if I can make that into smaller morsels for people to digest. So if you're thinking about sleep apnea by itself, Um, you know, you've got, uh, Transform Down Sleep with Jason Tierney. AADSM has all the right educational tools for you. Um, there are some billing companies that are out there that are really good. I don't want to step on anyone's toes, but people can email me or message me. I'm all over social media. When it comes to business management, um, you know, we, we've used the DEO for some time when we were expanding. I used to love going to the DICOM conference, but that's, you know, it's like a DSO growth thing, you know. Yeah, for just growing your own practice, there are a ton of good consultants out there. There's a lot of coaches out there. Um, I, I am— I would be, I would be doing people the disadvantage of just naming things. Yeah, because then they will, they'll feel like that's the right solution for them when there's maybe 10 other things that could be better. Yeah, but if people want to reach out to me personally, they can. They can email me, um, social media.

Yeah, what's your email? I'll throw it in the show notes, but just so people can hear it out loud.

No, it's just my, my first initial K and last name A-N-T-A-N-I at gmail.com. It's also on my LinkedIn and, you know, wherever else. Um, but yeah, there's, there's a lot of resources out there, and you know, they don't always have to be dental resources. There are a lot of— there's a ton of books out there, um, Podcasts, you know, you mentioned podcasts. There are so many good dental podcasts out there, and people always ask me what are my first 3. I don't know, it's like trying to name your best, you know, your favorite kid. Yeah, because, uh, you know, for example, the Sleep Apnea Podcast might be the favorite thing for that week for me, but the next week I'm maybe, um, learning more about mindset or business operations or how to be a dentist in this crazy world and just get through your day. So it's, it's really difficult for me to, you know, like rank them.

Yeah, I'm the same way where it's like, and I'm the same with music where it's like, I don't know, like just depends on what's going on in life. Like if I'm, if I'm stoked, then I've got a playlist for that. If it's rainy outside, I've got a playlist for that.

If I think it's your childhood, you have a different playlist, you know.

Yeah, you know, or the same thing with business where it's like, yeah, like kind of depend, like it can vary day to day on what you kind of, what, what you want to fill your mind with and what you're thinking about.

Yeah, right. And some days you want to just be quiet and be in quiet and peace. Yeah, there are also some books that are not dental that have helped me with business. Built to Sell is one of them, Michael Warlow, Automatic Customer, The Art of Selling Your Business. I mean, I'm not planning on selling my business, but you read these books and you get these ideas about, you know, how can you make yourself better. Yeah, you know, I'm looking at my bookshelf right now. There's The 10X Rule, There's, um, you know, uh, Small Giants, I think is one of them, is it's up there. Uh, Traction, EOS. I mean, there's so many different ways to learn, and it can be like drinking from a fire hose sometimes. And I actually had to stop consuming content for some time. Yeah, I was just like listening to, you know, like '90s hip-hop for like a month straight because I didn't want to listen to any more business podcasts. Yeah. You know, so it just, it goes in, in cycles, you know?

Yep.

Yeah. No, I really with that. I, I got on, um, Naval Ravikant for a while and he talks about like, yeah, he talks about how like, um, there was an episode he recorded a while ago where he talks about like, uh, with like books, he's like, there's like this like false incentive or negative incentive to put lots of content in there so that it looks big enough so it's worth the money. So he said he's completely changed his his perception and relationship with like books and self-help to just be like, okay, like what do I act like? He'll look at the table of contents and be like, okay, what actually am I interested in? What do I need? He's like, I'll just go read what I think I need and take that from it and then move on. As you know, instead of like a vanity metric of like, I just completed, I read 20 books this year. And he's like, well, who cares if you didn't do anything with it or, you know, and that's, and that's my problem actually.

I just finished the Almanach. Book of Naval Ravikant. He just, you brought that up. It's right there on my bookshelf. And yeah, it's full of, you know, dog-eared pages and highlights and stuff. And I was, and he brings up a good point. He's like, why are you reading like page to page?

Yeah.

If the information is repetitive or if it doesn't matter.

Yeah.

But that's the hard part for me because I have FOMO when it comes to books.

You know, I wanna, I wanna do it all.

Yeah. I would rather, and there might be a point in my life where I might say, okay, that's too much. I'm gonna skim, you know, but for right now I find myself reading cover to cover just because I don't wanna miss out on anything. And, but you know, it's taxing, man. Like reading all these books. Yeah. It's like, okay. And then people send me books or they'll recommend books.

Yeah.

And all of a sudden I'm like 20 books behind.

Yeah.

Uh-huh.

You know, so what can you do? It's just part of, it's just part of life.

Well, I've got— time has flown. The books you mentioned are great too. Like, the stuff you're spouting off, it's like, yep, that was a great one, that was a great one. Yeah. We're coming up on the end of time. I ask every guest the same question to finish things off, and that is, what does growth in dentistry mean to you? So I'd love to sign off with your answer to that question.

So I'm going to keep it pretty general, I guess. Growth in dentistry would probably, to me, if you're asking me, you know, what is my hope for the future of dentistry, in a way. How is it going to grow? I really think I, I would like to see it grow in terms of, um, coordination of care with other physicians, other healthcare providers. It would be amazing to see, you know, a saliva sample taken by me transmit the risk of XYZ disease to the patient's, uh, you know, primary care doctor who can then pass it down. So I think collaboration and, you know, AI, everyone— and I might get a little bit of heat for this, but AI is like the buzzword where everyone and their mom has an AI company now. Yeah, even if it's not really AI, let's just call it smart software. Let's just call it like, you know, Software 2.0. Like, yeah, doesn't have to be, you know, like a robot, but yeah. With the, with the use of AI, I think we can run our businesses better from the moment we pick up the phone call.

Yep.

To the billing, to the patient experience. And I think that's gonna help us bring more health to more people in better, more collaborative ways. You know, you take a sleep study and a saliva sample and you send it out to the patient's physicians and now we have a whole picture of what's up in their mouth. And this guy might have been a patient who didn't come to the dentist for 10 years because they're so scared, and now they have a way to talk to the physician, talk to the sleep doc, talk to the cardiologist, talk to the palma— whoever they need. Because half the time, the folks that did not come to the dentist have also not gone to the physician. So that's what my hope would be for the growth of dentistry. I know that's really vague No, I love it. It's like, just paint me like the most utopian dental picture in the world. Sorry, but that's what my hope— if you want to ever sit down and go into the nitty-gritty, then we'll do that. But yeah, I know you're short on time and your listeners are probably too.

Yeah, no, it's great. No, as you say that, my mind, you know, being on the software side of things, you know, my mind immediately goes to, yeah, there's some like massive software and like data system problems to solve., you know, in order for that to become a reality, which I agree, those 100% should be solved, you know.

And then somebody smarter than me is gonna have to solve them.

Yep, at some point someone needs to, you know.

Somebody, yeah, somebody really smart should solve them.

Well, um, thank you, Kartik. Any other, uh, parting words? It's been so fun to chat.

Yeah, time is full, man. I really appreciate you, you, you talking to me, and, um, you know, it's, it's been a pleasure.

Sweet. And for those listening, I'll throw his email in the show notes if you want to reach out to him, connect, expand your circle. You know, he's obviously, you can tell from the episode, such a cool guy, has his head on straight, is not— it's so humble. He's like, he's overly humble. And because of that, I'm not, uh, I'm not saying all the amazing things about him and his business, but he runs a great business. You can tell that he's very thoughtful. So if you want to reach out to him, absolutely do. And thanks again for joining Joining us for another episode of the Growth in Dentistry podcast. My name is Steve Jensen, your fellow data nerd. Keep growing, and we'll talk soon.

See you guys.