How Trauma Rewires Your Brain and How to Take Back Control w/ Holly McNeill

When you look at it. But it's just our minds that make it so complicated. And you're right, our minds are habit based. You know, there are no questions asked. Appreciate the familiar or work with the familiar. So if a new idea doesn't match the programming, it's going to be rejected or manipulated. And that's where all that, a lot of that anxiety can come up. It's like, what are you talking about? You can't do that. Are you crazy? So just even being aware of that, that you're going to meet this resistance when you start foreign.

This is Dr. Dawn Wood and you're on the podcast. You must be out of your mind. And I want to welcome Holly McNeil with her love. And I want to find out all what that acronym stands for. So you're going to give me a detail. But welcome, Holly.

Nice to meet you. Thank you, thank you. And I love the name of your podcast, which is actually quite appropriate. Right. And sometimes we want to be out of the mind.

And it's the name of my first book. So I must be out of your mind. And the idea was we gotta get you out of the way. Your mind has been thinking.

That's right. That's absolutely right, yes.

So I read a little bit about your journey and your transformation. Sounds absolutely fascinating. From where you went to what you're doing now. I mean, that's not a normal transition.

Yeah. So I'm an architect. I, you know, at the height of my career, I was doing hospitals in Mecca, Saudi Arabia, working for Stanford and yeah, been there, done that, you know, got the T shirt. Really at the top of my game. 25, I was in charge of the largest historic preservation project in the state of South Dakota. Not so many people there, but still significant, still impressive. I'm standing there as an intern architect with 10 to 20 men standing around me at the construction site, all listening to what I had to say, you know, just exuding authority well beyond my years. But inside I didn't give myself any credit for it. You know, a lot of low self worth, self esteem from childhood trauma that of course got in my head and ruminated and, and became part of my identity. So didn't matter what I did on the outside, but by age 34, I had everything you're supposed to want. Well, back then, married, kids, career, everything. And I hit rock bottom. So at a really low point, I made this vow. You know, God, life, Buddha, the universe, anyone out there listening, help me and I will change. Give me another chance and I'll do Better. Awesome. Yeah. It was that moment I can remember. It's like, it's not very flattering, but I'm literally on the toilet in the middle of the night crying my eyes out, you know? Yeah. I'm not shy about my stuff, but. And I got that second chance. And so I. With my karmic debt in toe, I went out to make good on that vow and along with my career. And then, you know, becoming a single mother, struggling with, you know, holding onto my kids and trying to ward off my alienation from them. I kept that vow. But in making it and stepping on that path, our minds are very powerful. Right way we're taking them, things started showing up. Answers for what I needed, the right people situations to help me along my way. And this would take me from my hometown in the Black Hills of South Dakota, to Minneapolis to New York to San Francisco, and ultimately living in a Dharma house in San Francisco, which was an amazing.

I read that. That's fascinating.

Yeah. I mean, how fortunate am I? How fortunate am I even to be here on this podcast with you today? I'm just so grateful to be here. But being able to live in that Dharma house was amazing. But in my early 40s, I decided, wait, I've got to share this. I've got something to share. And so I put two intentions out to the world again. Our minds are very powerful. And one was to retire early from architecture and to write about what I've learned. And the second was to have the time and space to do it. So, as intentions go, I retired two days before I turned 50. And in 2017, I sat down to write. And in writing, the book was really a means to an end. It's not out yet, but. But it wasn't being until we were sequestered in our homes during the COVID pandemic that I printed out a book proposal that I was writing for the Hay House. And I looked over at the pages, and this whole path just appeared. I could see. I could see a very clear set of mindfulness meditation practices based on that 20 year circuitous route I had just taken.

Yeah.

And that was the birth of Per Love. It was three years ago in October, and I've been growing them and teaching them and telling my story. Just. I'm really the layperson's story, right from stuck and lost to here talking to you today. So thank you.

I love it. I love those kinds of transformational stories because just what you experience can help so many other people who don't know why they're struggling you know, and then they're going to relate to your story and go, somebody already successful in a career is going to make that kind of a change. So many people are afraid to make changes. I had one gentleman who said to me, I'm. I want to be an entrepreneur, but it scares me. He says, every time I think about it, he goes, I think, and he's making a quarter of a million a year, you know, doing really well. And he said, but if I think about it, I will shake because I want to make sure my mortgage is paid and my kids have food on the table. And then after I took them through our program, again, it was the clarity. Yeah, he got the clarity. And he said he was sitting in a restaurant and overheard this other table talking about this business opportunity. He goes, I never would have done that before. And I went over and sat down, and I said, this sounds fascinating. Sorry for eavesdropping, but are you looking for partners? And he became a partner in their company.

Yeah, it sounds crazy, right? But when you find that clarity, it's really unfamiliarity that. That brings that fear. Right. When you don't know something. Like, he said he would have never done it before, but once he got to know it and found that clarity, things show up. Things are showing up for you all the time. Right. But you just aren't present to see them.

You let them go by. And that's what he said. Probably dozens of opportunities have sort of passed, but he just ignored them, had the blinders on and. And was succeeding by every stretch. I mean, he. You know, a beautiful home, beautiful wife, beautiful kids. Right. So all of that. But he said, I wasn't living my passion.

Same. Yeah. I think there's a lot of people out there. In fact, you know, you have to start with a target audience, you know, when. When. When you're just kind of growing your practices. Mine is. Is exactly that. People, they're in their 30s, 40s, 50s, that have it all. You have, have the success, but don't have it in here.

Yeah. So, no, that's amazing. And that's what I always talk about, is that uncertainty is the number one fear for the human mind. The mind does not like uncertainty.

That's right.

So it's trying to bring in certainty. And how it does that is it creates habits and behaviors to create the certainty, and then it becomes unconscious, and you just live the habits and behaviors and have no idea why you do them.

That's right. That's right. And, you know, I so appreciate speaking with you, dawn, because you Came at it from the clinical point of view and you learned all of this stuff. And I found myself so fortunate to be able to, to find it. I found my way, which is why I'm, you know, I'm going to be 60 soon enough and it looks amazing for 60.

So you're doing something right. Buddhist mentality.

There you go. It's meditation. Thank you, I appreciate that. I'm thinking, you know, why, why would I want. This is a lot of work actually.

But I've been so fortunate to find that not only in, in psychology, but in neuroscience, as you talk about, but also in spirituality and Buddhism. And they all point it back from millennial old wisdom to, to modern day thought leaders. They're all pointing back to the same thing, how the mind works. You know, it's not spirituality, it's how the mind works. And the sooner people understand that, that they're in charge, they're actually the boss. Right. So they're not the, they're not the paid intern just taking orders.

Yeah, I like that. That's a great way of saying it.

Yeah, yeah. But without that clarity, you, you're, you're living on autopilot.

And it's just the way that the brain works and the mind works and that's what I do. And I basically do about a four hour session with them. And the first two hours is all science and education about what I learned.

Yes.

And what I get constantly in that part of the, you know, session is, gosh, this is making so much sense now. Now I understand. One of the very first things I say to them, there's nothing wrong with you and there's nothing wrong with your mind. And Holly, I'll have people sit and cry when I tell them that because that's not what in feeling, they feel like they're broken. There's something wrong with them. I go, there's nothing wrong. The experiences you had created the mind you're, you're working with right now. So all we have to do is basically reboot the system. Right. So that old data is constantly running, activating your nervous system. And it's going to show up in, you know, mental health things. Anxiety, depression, you know, post traumatic stress. It's a glitch. Yeah, we could reboot the system.

That's right, that's right. Everything points to it. Right. And that's what the per. Love practices are all about. One of my classes is called simple and Obvious question mark.

Because it is pretty straightforward, you know, when you look at it. But it's just our Minds that make it so complicated. And you're right, our minds are habit based, you know, there are no questions asked, appreciate the familiar or work with the familiar. So if it doesn't, a new idea doesn't match, you know, doesn't match the programming, it's going to be rejected or manipulated. And that's where all that, a lot of that anxiety can come up. It's like, what are you talking about? You can't do that. Are you crazy? So just even being aware of that, that you're going to meet this resistance when you start.

And I talk about that because people say, well, I sabotage myself. What I say to them, I go, it's impossible. The brain's a survival brain. It can't sabotage you. It's protecting you from what it believes is going to be something that's going to hurt you. So it'll move you in a direction and you'll interpret that as, oh, I sabotaged myself. Because I went and I did this. I said, but in actual fact, your mind was trying to stop something that would possibly hurt you based on the experiences that you had.

That's right.

That's not sabotage. That's actually a brilliant brain trying to protect you.

Yeah, I like that. I like that. Yeah. I called it, you know, obviously not, I didn't come up with it, but the bio computer and it's just, it's just feeding back what you've given it and what you're trying to give it, something new, it doesn't match. And it's like error, error, you know, but you're like, no, you have to just be the architect of your mental landscape.

That's exactly it.

And you can start to change those, those neural connections and, and create new ones, but it takes time and patience and repetition.

Yeah, I always say, think of repetition as research for the brain. It likes the research. Give me more data before I make a change. I want enough data. Yeah, I always use the story of if you walk two miles every day to get food, but every day you had to navigate through snipers and landmines, but you got there and back every day. And then somebody says, why are you doing that? There's a grocery store 100 yards down that road and it's well lit, it's really safe. Your mind won't accept that right off the bat.

Right.

So you gotta start going 10 yards down the road, 20 yards and teach it that this is safer. And then it'll change. It's designed to change.

It is, it's malleable. I had A class last night, and I talked about, you know, people. A lot of people think this is their world, it's solid. But when you start to break it down, I just happen to have these, you know, Right.

Oh, I love this. Okay.

No, Right. And then you break it down more and you're like, oh, wait, I can move these things around a little bit. And finally you realize that these are just kind of thoughts. And in the middle is that powerful you. Right? That powerful. That can really do anything. You know, like you said, it's a. It's a brilliant. The mind is brilliant. The brain is brilliant. If we use it that way, we can create our lives in whatever manner we want. But if we don't, then we can really get hurt and in trouble. But it's all inside.

And I talk about, for example, one of the things I do which really surprises people is when I say, they tell me they have depression.

Yeah.

And I say, what if I told you depression is a function of the brain, not a dysfunction? They say, how could it be a function? And I said, because your mind is looking at old data, right? And wants it to be different. So it keeps calling you in to make a change in something that you can't change because it doesn't exist anymore. It's a data read error. It's reading old data in real time saying, fix it. So if you are abused physically or emotionally, and now you're looking at it, your mind's saying, fight back, do something. You can't do it. So you get this emotion, anger. Most cases, depression's anger. So if your mind keeps getting you angry to answer the call, but you don't answer the call, how does the mind protect itself and protect you? It shuts down. Depression is the absence of an emotion. There's no emotion now because you're flat. Because your mind said, this isn't working. So to protect you from the pain, it goes into a shutdown mode.

Wow.

Very different way of looking at it.

Yeah, completely different way of looking at it.

And so all we have to do is get to what is your mind be trying to fix and get an update, reboot the system so it understands that that information is just information. It's not something that there's an action for. And then just reset the system to say, okay, it's data. What do we need to do? Like, what do we need to do about World War II? But can you imagine if we kept getting angry about World War II? That would make no sense, right? There's nothing you can do about it. Now, right?

Yeah.

So different way of looking at it.

It is. It's pretty amazing.

And that's what I really learned from a lot of the science that I was looking at. And I think the advantage, sort of like you, which I love about what you. Because you're an architect, you saw structure, right? And so everything for you is, how did that get built? And the current mental health system was built on a lot of errors. They didn't understand the brain. And so now that we understand the brain. So you came into it with that architect mindset, saying, tell me why that works or why that doesn't work. And that was easy for you to see it where most people don't see it that way. They just adopt what was they were taught.

Oh, yeah, I appreciate you say that, Don, because really, as an architect, at one point I was doing a hospital, like I said, in Mecca, Saudi Arabia, and, you know, there's literally billions of decisions. And so an architect's job is to put everything together in a clear way. So my gift is clarity. And again, I feel so blessed to be able to take different modalities and have them all, like, relate to each other. And as you said, when. When you. When you explain this to people, then. Then it's like, okay, I get it. I see a path forward. Right. Rather than being stuck on that in that program loop. Right.

And that's what I talk about when people come in and say, well, I have anxiety, I have post traumatic stress, whatever they're describing. I say, well, that's just a symptom. That's not the problem. But if you go in and say, I've got anxiety, they're going to want to treat the symptom. Yeah, but the symptom isn't the problem.

In fact, treating the symptom makes it more real. Right. It tells the brain that this is something that needs attention, obviously, because we're treating it. So. So treating it, you know, fighting and trying to push it away, but also, you know, treating it and trying to work through it also validates it. It validates the programming. Yes. Okay. This is real. All right. We gotta keep this going. Right.

And there's something wrong with me.

Right, right. It's just stepping back and seeing it. Seeing it as this and not this. Right. Not solid that. That you can start to say, okay, this is a program. And. And that's what the Per Love Pro Per Love practices are designed to do. You know, it starts with. With pledge. Right. Making the habit of watching the mind starts with one minute, six times a Day, one minute, six times a day. Take a minute just to watch, just to pay attention, to be the observer. You're creating a new habit.

That's it. Yeah, focus.

The first three practices per are the more cerebral practices. So then you evaluate. Once you can see things, once you're watching your mind create the space. It's about space, really, in your mind to watch. Instead of being engulfed in it, you can start to evaluate those patterns as, as the observer, you're now watching the patterns. You're. You're evaluating those. And then you can, you know, pick some targets for change and recognize them as they come up in your daily life. Not that I'm anxious. It's like there is that pattern. There is that anxiety coming up. Catch it. And, you know, like you said, you can reprogram it. You can have it sit next to you. Just, you can, you know, accept it fully. Yep, it's going to be there. It's going to be there. You program this the last 20, 30, 40 years, but in accepting it, you're not engaging. Right. You're not making it more valid. So it has no choice but to kind of go, you know. Right. And start to break up those patterns. So that's, that's really. The three. First three practices, I do a class and it's a year long right now. I'm thinking about making it 12 weeks long, but the first nine months are in those practices because you have to hear something over and over and over again.

Research.

That's right. That's right. If someone hears this podcast for the first time and goes, wow, that is so cool, I love that I want to do that and doesn't ever listen again, it will be gone. It's purged. Like there's nothing substantial enough here to keep it going. So, like you said, researching, giving it more ideas. Anyway, so that's the first three practices.

And I like that because it's sort of what I say to people too, is I go, well, why haven't I been able to recognize this or why I've been able to do this? And I, I'm a big sports guy. So I say, why did, why did Tiger woods have a coach? Yeah, because he can't see what he's doing. He thinks he sees it right. But he gets at the top of his swing and his, his club opens up a degree or two. He can't pick that up because it feels the same. He's ingrained it. I said, but the coach could turn around and say, okay, when you get here, you've Got to do this. And that's why he's able to do what he does, but he can't see that. So that's why you need someone like you or me to come in and say, here's what we're seeing, and here's how to fix it. And the best players, golfers in the world, doesn't matter what sport you use, has somebody that can help them do that. And then that's how you make the change. I used to be a tennis pro. I remember when I first started, when I was 16, right? So I was a little nervous because I'm teaching all these adults, just like you Talked about at 25, all these people around you, and you're. You've got authority, right? I'm 16. I'm telling people, go stand over there and I'll get right back to you. And they run over there. But one of the guys. So when I was really starting out teaching, he said to me, he says, you know, the. The mentor who taught me, I took over all his. His classes and students. This guy says, I've been taking class, I've been taking lessons with Vic for so many years, and I don't think I'm any better now than I was when I started. And I said, okay. I said, let me answer that. Let me ask you this question. After this lesson, you come in again next week, right? He goes, yeah. I said, how many hours are you dedicating to practice? He says, well, it varies, you know, because sometimes I travel some. And I said, well, no, that doesn't work. I can show you what to do, and I can help you get there. But it's your repetition. You got to be hitting up against that wall or hitting up against that ball machine, right, for so many hours a week. And then when you come here, I can make tweaks to it. But if you come back every time with the same problem, right, it's just you. How am I going to help you?

You know, people have asked me, what is the first thing somebody needs in order to change? And I. And I say, they have to want it. They have to want to change. They have to want to do the work to understand what and how to change. Because you don't know what you don't know, as you said, right? And secondly, they have to believe, right, that maybe they don't know everything. But I find. I find the mind, from the spiritual point of view, to be so powerful that you really attract what you bring, what you think about. So the power of belief is huge. So if you want to change. If you want to change, you and you, you just, if you believe you can, you don't have to know how to get there. Right?

Right.

So people will show up, coaches will show up. It can even be something, a podcast that accidentally came up next on your feed or, or something somebody said. If you believe, if you want to change and you believe it's possible, those opportunities will show up.

I've worked with people, though, not a lot of them, but I've had people come in who just was sort of pushed to go and do it and they're like, I don't believe this is going to help me. But you know, my wife said to me, I got to do it and I'm doing it. And they still get life changing experiences. So the mind is so powerful that all you have to do is get in there. And again, it's survival based. So when it starts to get this information and knowledge, it listens very carefully and then it can start making. That's one of the things that I talk about is the key is to get the mind into a restorative mindset. Then it becomes very open to change. But if you're just going in for an hour to sit down and talk about these things, that's why I use the four hours I've got to move the mind into a restorative brainwave state. And then all of a sudden it starts to really hear. But before that, it's defense, defense, no, no, no, no, no. And then eventually it goes, maybe, maybe, maybe. What are you talking about?

Yeah, that's, that's the same. Right. Just wanting that change, that open receptivity to it and vulnerability. Right. You know, we can be miserable and depressed, but it feels safe, it's familiar. So it takes that vulnerability or your wife or making you go do it or something to instigate that change. Otherwise the brain's gonna go on the same way forever.

It likes certainty. It likes the certainty of the behavior and habit, even though it may not be healthy.

Yeah. And newsflash, even if it's not that, it's just gonna stay the same. Those things are gonna be reinforced even more and more and more and more, making them more solid and more real. So the longer you think this is just going to go away, the more, the worse it's going to get. Because the brain doesn't stay static. It's making, it's making connections all the time. It's malleable. And if it's like, okay, this program's working, nobody's fighting Nobody's trying to change this. It'll keep going down those paths that you probably don't want to go down. I mean, I went down my path, you know, for 34 years before I said, wait, stop, stop. There has to be better than this. There has to be better than this. Even though I had everything you're supposed to want. Yeah.

Well, what's interesting is one of the things I'm doing, I just wrote my fourth book and I called it Don't Mess with My DNA. And, and what I have learned through all this research and everything is that unresolved trauma actually affects the way the DNA is read and transcribed. And I'm doing this, I'm doing a study on it right now. We're going to publish this study. What I talk about is that trauma creates inflammation in the body. Inflammation is a response to trauma, whether it's physical or emotional. So physical way to explain it is you start punching me in the arm, my arm is going to swell up. So there's nothing wrong with that inflammation. It's designed to protect the system. It goes into a cell danger response to stop anything from penetrating the cell while it's under attack. So it's actually a good thing. So inflammation is not a problem. It's when it becomes chronic, it becomes a problem. So the genes that regulate inflammation upregulate during a threat. The genes that regulate the immune system downregulate and the genes that regulate the neurotransmitters, neuroplasticity, all downregulate. But it's supposed to be a temporary situation until the danger passes. But the problem is danger doesn't pass according to the mind because the trauma is running in the background and it keeps reading the data in real time, so it stays in that genetic response.

Wow.

What I'm showing now is that when we resolve the trauma, so we're doing pre DNA tests and post DNA tests. In the pre DNA test we get their blood and we take a DNA sample and then have that measured. And then after they finish the program, they do the post DNA. And this is the kind of responses we're getting. This is phenomenal. One gentleman who did it, he had a 52.6% reduction in inflammation on a very high functioning executive who had no idea he was dealing with that.

Wow.

And so the other thing he had is his CD4T cells that fight infection increased 113% because the immune system came up. The genes that regulate the T cells regulate the immune system increased 123%.

So.

And then we just had a lady, she's 58, and her results just came in. She was in really good shape anyway. Eats right, exercises, and then even she really takes care of herself. But she had trauma. So biologically, the DNA test said, even though she was 58, was showing her really, biologically 56, because she's doing everything right to take care of herself. After going through our program, it went down to 47 biologically. Telomeres increased 26%. The whole system adjusts, of course. Designed to heal, as you know, we're designed to heal. What's interfering with it is the loop.

That's. That's right. That's right. You know, when that loop, right, it sends the peptides down into your body, infusing every cell in your body. Even when they split, there's more. And I've heard the DNA story before. I've heard that even DNA passed on to children can have trauma, even understand why. But you're right. The body is very much in tune, which is why. Which is why when you evaluate, you should use the body as a barometer, right? Not. Not. Not as something to guide your life. The emotions and feelings that come up are what's been programmed. The. The. The peptides that are saturated all your cells. So when it's triggered, of course your whole body is going to go. And your brain's like, okay, see, I told you, here's where it is. But instead it's like, wait, this is what I've programmed.

Yeah.

And this is what I. I can see it. And this is what I program, and this is what I don't want. And it takes good. Catch it. You have to catch it every time. And as soon as. The more you catch it, then the brain's like, okay, this is a pattern. I like this. Catching it. And then as soon as soon, you're catching it all the time.

Yeah. And that's when you can start making.

Changes because you have the space to make those changes. The space. And those things are still going to be there. That program never totally goes away because it's in your history. It's in the. What do you call it? The backup or whatever, Right.

I call it a code. It's a code.

It's in the code.

So. So you can write the code. And it doesn't mean that code's going to run all the time if you write new code. But the old code can still be there. Right? And. But you can write new code. And when I talk about addiction, I say, addiction is not a disease. It's A code. The brain has pain.

Right.

It can't resolve the pain. So every time I take a drink, the pain stops temporarily. Right. So every time I keep going to that drink, I'm coding that the drink is the solution to the problem.

That's right.

And then I can't change it because the code is so strong. And then we want to shame them and guilt them, and it has nothing to do with that. It's the way the brain works.

Yeah, it is the way the brain works. And I've gone to my own counseling and therapy that have been very helpful. But again, I have, like I said, the class, it's, you know, simple and obvious, which it isn't obviously that simple and obvious, but when you talk about it in these terms, it's like, wait, what? I can just say no? I'm, you know, like, no. Just say no every time, or I am amazing, or I'm going to do this and. And think, and I become familiar with it, and it starts to change that. What, is that it? But that we're programmed not to think that way. The brain protects its programming. Yeah.

Because it's proven that it's safe.

Yeah.

Even though it may not be safe, but your mind thinks I'm alive. It's working.

Yeah, exactly. This is working. Let's just stay with this.

Exactly. Let's just keep doing it. Because it works.

Yeah. Y. Well, and that's why. And I don't know how long you've had your institute, but it sounds wonderful. And, you know, my work is kind of in those four different modalities. As an architect, you know a little bit about everything. Right. When you're building a building, you know, and H vac and insulation and drainage. Right. Well, I know a little bit about neuroscience, psychology, Buddhism, spirituality, but I. You know, your depth of knowledge is much obviously deeper than mine. But. But it's telling the same story.

It's telling the same story. And the idea is to get people to be open to wanting to make changes. And when you can guide them, that's really what they're looking for. And I. I say that to people when they come in. Right. There's nothing wrong with them and there's nothing wrong with their mind. Let me explain how your mind has been working and why it's working that way. And then people are like, well, of course it would have to do that.

For the longest time, they didn't think psychology even was a science because they couldn't find common denominators. Not like in math. Like, you put this and you add this, and you're going to get this. These relationships, these functions are always the same, right? Well, our common denominator is the mind is the ability to think and how the mind works. So even though no two people think alike, we all have different thoughts, personal thought systems, it works the same way. Unless you've been in some kind of injury or something like that, it works the same way for everyone. And so getting that message out, it's like a light. It's like the light bulb comes on.

I had a gentleman in last night, and he said to me, he said, why did it take me 20 years to find you?

That's right. That's right. That was my question. I mean, it was great. It was a lovely journey. I appreciate being here, but it was long. It was long. It was question after question, piece after piece of this, you know, hospitalized, like I said, millions of pieces. So, yeah, the more we can get this message out, that there's some basic things you want to know about your brain. And actually, my ultimate goal is to take it back to the middle schoolers. You know, that's a point. There's more suicide in middle school than homicide. You know, that's a point where, you know, people are just breaking free from their parents. They're, you know, there's all the peer pressure and there's a lot of trauma and tragic and toughness going on there. So, yeah, I'm speaking at a college showcase this fall. But my ultimate goal is to get back there so kids can know. Right. In middle school, it's pretty tough.

Yes, I remember middle school. It was a tough time.

Right? That's right. And. And that's when the brain's like, you know, well, obviously when you're. When you're younger, your frontal cortex isn't fully developed, and. And you're like, okay, this works. And this works. This is what works, right? All of this. This is what keeps me safe. As you said, it goes with that unless you change it.

Yeah, yeah. Because. Yeah. Built those patterns before. I always talk about, think of the brain as the computer. The mind is the software. So if I drop my computer, I can physically damage my computer. It'll affect the way it operates.

Yeah, right.

But if I open up my computer, I can't see the software, but that's the programs. That's the mind. And so if you want to make a change to a program, Right. You may not be able to see it, but you can adjust it. And then your whole life is built on a series of experiences that were Programming. And so, especially during those first early seven years of your life, it's literal. It's taking everything in. And then it's like, I'm not good enough. I'm not smart enough. I'm not lovable, whatever it is.

Right. And I like to say it's that, you know, that limbic system, but it's your inner child. When something happens to you traumatically, when you're a child, there's no one else in your world. Right. Your frontal cortex is not enough to say, hey, that wasn't my fault. There's only you. So it could only be your fault. You could only be the problem. Right. It's just not fair. But that's how it works. Unless you have an adult there that has the emotional stability to tell you, hey, no. You know, and resolve that pain. That's where the trauma occurs. There's no one else to blame. There are some balanced families, which is lovely, but 80% of people experience some kind of trauma. And so it's almost a given that there's going to be something that you can go back and find and go, okay, I see where this started to program. And like you said, then it became the safe way to operate, and you operated that way until you die or until you change it.

Yeah. So, again, what I talk about is. That's what I wrote in the fourth book, Don't Mess With My DNA, was more designed for parents about. Even with the best of intentions, you can have an effect on your children's DNA the way it's read and transcribed. So children have no life experience and they're interpreting their world with zero experience.

Yeah.

So my wife, she was living in a very traumatic household. I had an idyllic childhood, no trauma, but she was growing up in this traumatic childhood. And when she's sick, she's invited to a tea party that the mothers in the neighborhood put on. And she's all excited, and she gets there, and the mothers are greeting all the little girls. And one of the mothers says to Bridget, she goes, oh, my gosh, Bridget, look at you. You're going to be such a heartbreaker when you grow up. And all the other mothers are like, oh, yeah, Bridget's gonna be a heartbreaker. She said, I got sick to my stomach and had to go home. She says, I thought they saw something bad in me. I'm gonna hurt people.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Amazing how that language. They're complimenting her.

Yeah. Very subtle, you know, and you can compliment someone a million times, and if you have one bad Moment where you're just like, how would you stop singing? Right? And that kid's like, never. I'm not supposed to sing. You know, it's.

Yeah, I have a perfect example of that. I had a lady who said, oh, I had no real trauma, great childhood. And I was doing a group, and so she decided she'd come up and volunteer because I take somebody through the process of clearing the trauma. And so she says, no, I really haven't had any. And so I'm trying to get her to. Is there anything that you can think of? And so she came up, she goes, okay, yeah, I've got something. She goes, when I was six and as she's starting to talk, I can see her eyes filling up. And she says, we were in church. And she says, and I was talking, and my grandmother took out her hairbrush, hit me on the head and said, stop talking, you're in church. And the waterworks came. Took her 30 seconds to catch her breath. And what she said was, I lost my voice that day. Yeah, that's when it happened. I never stand up for myself. But that's where. Now, was her grandmother trying to do that?

Of course not. Of course not. Now I told my son, who's thin as a rail, like one time he was a little, he had gained some weight. I go, you're a little chunky. And that was it. He's reminded me of that for years.

Yep.

Remember when you said I was chunky? I said it one time, yep.

That's how powerful. That's what parents need to understand, you know, and that's why if you can get to these middle schoolers like you're talking about, you'll change the trajectory of their life, not only emotionally, but physically. All the things that start showing up health wise.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yep. Well, that's my goal. I mean, once the practices really get going, that's when I'll know that no matter how old I am, by then I've done what I came here to do, I guess.

Tell me what the love stands for. So we got the purr. And then give me a love is.

The more spiritual part of the formula. Right. So once, once you open up and you, you realize that you, you locate the space in between your thoughts, emotions and feelings, that, that, that awareness, when you look in that, that ball, that string, there's no center to it. Right. That you can ultimately find. There's no ego. Right. So you're locating that, that space of awareness. And then you meditate on it and you've realized that it. It's expandable. Right. That the mind is beyond here. You drop it into your heart. That it's maybe a little bit more than you think. Right. That there's more movement. And you o open your hearts using your power of imagination. The power of imagination is another power. Nothing that mankind ever developed wasn't first imagined. So you imagine that, you know, if it's like a muscle that's atrophied under all the. All the heavy thoughts and patterns, but you find the door and you imagine it open. Open. You just imagine opening it. And eventually, if you imagine this enough, you can have physical sensations in your body. This amazing. Like a light bulb that turns on when it gets enough electricity or waterfall that overflows this flow. You feel this flow of energy, which is that awareness, which is that space between your thoughts, emotions and feelings. You then invest in those. Right. Your mind is continually showing you, whether you're seeing it or not, what you need to set yourself free. Those indicators, that depression, that anxiety, these troubles, any struggles you have. So you invest in. Well, first you invest in the flow. Because the flow in that space between those higher levels of consciousness is where you find your wisdom, your peace, your clarity, your compassion. So spend as much time as you can there, but realize that every obstacle in your life is showing you what you need to set yourself free.

Right?

Right. And finally, then e is expanding beyond your conditioned limits. We are, so are the temporary experience. We know that life is temporary.

Yeah.

We think this is real, this is permanent, and that we're, you know. But this is actually the temporary experience. You realize that. That even my identity was given to me when I was born, When I was first born. I wasn't Holly. Right. Right. So you realize that you're connected, that. That your nature is the same as everyone else's nature. That conscious awareness that you see in the trees and the woods and the rocks is one and the same. And from that, your world is unlimited. Right.

Believe that.

Yeah.

I love that.

Yeah. I'm so grateful to have gone on this journey. I wouldn't recommend that route.

Like I said, I was alienated from my kids for a while. I've had, you know, lots of stuff, but I wouldn't change it for the world to be here because it's such a. A journey well worth taking. And per Love and the Inspired Performance Institute this is the way to go. This is the way you can get to freedom, to power. It's a blessing to be here. It's a blessing, a miracle to be conscious and to See the world in the present moment every day, and to just be an observer and experience and interact with it, knowing that it's temporary and that. And that, you know, even your struggles are showing you what you need to find that freedom.

Same thing I was like. Because I was doing all this, I really got into this because of my. I don't know if you know my story, but my daughter and my. My wife, who had both dealt with trauma that I didn't deal with, my daughter ended up with Crohn's, and so she ended up with a second autoimmune disorder, idiopathic pulmonary hemosiderosis. That was a potential death sentence. And so that's when I started to do the research. Why is this happening? And we didn't know that she'd had trauma when she was sick. She never disclosed it. So that's when I started connecting all the dots that Crohn's and the IPH are really inflammation. Why did it go into an inflamed state? Because of the trauma. So all I had to do is try to follow that path. Right. And again, the advantage for me is I didn't get into this to become a doctor. I got into this to save my daughter. So I was an entrepreneur. So that's why I like your story, is because if you want to fix a problem, bring in an entrepreneur. Right. Totally different.

Yeah.

I was like, I don't think that would work. And now I know that's some of the same way that you discover things because of the way your brain was developed as an architect.

Yeah. Yeah.

Look at it and challenge it. There's got to be a better way. Can we build that this way and make it this way?

Not working, people. This is not gonna last.

Yeah, it's gonna fall down, so.

Oh, well. Wonderful, Wonderful.

Well, well, Holly, thank you so much for spending the time. I love what you're doing. Right. I wish you all the success. Right. And I'm sure, you know, you'll continue to grow, because when you come out with that intention.

That's right.

Just work.

And like I say, I asked myself, what are you doing? A lot of work. But you know what? It's. It's what I'm here to do and what I want to do, and why not? I can help people.

Absolutely. And you are as you are. Very good. Well, thank you so much. And I look forward to, you know, following you. Keep in touch, and let us know what you're doing.

I'm starting a podcast called Pay Attention, so I love it. If you would come as a guest on my.

I would love to. I would love to.

All right, well, then. Then we'll see each other again.

All right. And everybody, thanks for listening. And you've listened to another podcast, if you must be out of your mind. And there it is.

Thank you.