Dating Again? What Women Look For In Older Men

Hello there, modern man. Do you flirt? You really want to know how to flirt confidently? Well, I have Kimmy Seltzer. She is the confidence therapist, authentic dating strategist, and image expert who helps singles transform their life from the outside in. Don't worry, we'll talk what that is. But she's also a TEDx speaker. She's been on national matchmaking conferences and on eharmony and Neutrogena. So this woman knows what she's talking about. She's also a coach, but she's also a dating strategist. I'm excited to have Kimmy on our podcast today to share her wisdom. So welcome, Kimmy.

Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm super excited about this conversation.

Oh, definitely. Let's dive into this. So what does it mean by outside in? Give us the definition.

Well, it's funny. Cause, I mean, when you hear it, it sounds. Oh, it's so superficial. Aren't we supposed to work from the inside out? And look, I'm a therapist. I'm a trained therapist. What I did for many, many years until I got into the coaching space. And the truth of the matter is up until my own hot mess story, which I'll share just a little bit about, too. Because while I have this great professional background, the reason why I'm so passionate about doing what I do is because of my own story, my own transformation. I think a lot of people will relate to it. I used to work from the inside out, believe that you had to do the work and really break patterns and look at your childhood and all that in order to move forward in your life. And I still believe that. So hear me out. But I think there comes a time in the place, especially in the dating world, where the outside is often overlooked. So you can do the inside job to the cows, come home, and you could rock in a rocking chair and listen to podcasts and read all these books. But are you flirting? What are you wearing? How are you marketing yourself to attract love? So it's not changing who you are. It's marketing yourself so that somebody gets to know who you are. So quick story on me and where that came from is I was this kind of good girl from Chicago. Any Midwest people out there will understand the story in that. I lived a very traditional life. I practiced as a therapist for over 10 years. I was married. I had the picket fence. I had two kids, the dog, the husband. I still have the kids, by the way. But you see where the story is going. And so there I right there, I was. And we just all picked up and we moved across the country and we plop ourselves down into this place called Los Angeles, la LA Land. And that's where I am now. And it's. It was almost as if as soon as we got here, that's where the record stopped. I joke. We. We did what all the other people did. We end up getting a divorce. I like to blame la, you see, but I. I would have been here anyway, 100%. It just sped up the process. Being in a new land. And there I was, all alone, not knowing what to do with my new life, my new career. I'm a mom with young kids with no resources or support system. And I was like, oh, my God, like, talk about that rock bottom moment. And then I'm a therapist on top of it. How horrible. Like, I. I was like, wait, I should know how to help myself. And also, I almost slipped into this thing called analysis paralysis, because this is where the outside in thing all happened. Because I did what I t. Taught and I preached. I did the work. Like, I went to therapy, I sought out my friends for support, and it was all really super helpful. But then time went on and like six months to eight months later, people were like, kimmy, maybe you should just like, get out there and just maybe start talking to men. And I said, not ready. I'm doing the work. Okay, fine. A year later, Kimmy, okay, I think it's time to get out there. I'm like, no, I'm still doing the work. Well, what was I doing? Literally, I was just in this, like, cerebral space, right? Like, trying to understand dating and all that, but I wasn't taking action. And so one day, and this is where it all happened. I literally woke up. I don't know what possessed me to just. I took a hard look in the mirror and I was just horrified at what I saw. I mean, I. I did not look like this. I was not wearing red. I was always wearing black oversized clothes. And my confidence was shot. And I look in the mirror and I just. I looked horrible. I was still wearing my nursing bras. I wasn't even nursing any longer. I was like, oh, my God, Like, I am stuck. I am completely stuck. So the first thing I did to get me out of this funk, I caught my dark period, my black period, because that's all I wore was black. I went shopping. Shopping therapy. And I go to the store and I think I'm up leveling myself, but I'm putting all these black clothes in my cart and I'm doing the same darn thing that I always do. I'm collecting black. And this personal shopper, she comes up to me, and she says, ma', am, I've been watching you, and I really think you should try this on. And she holds up this red dress that looks, like, three times too small because I lost all this weight, too. I was totally stressed out. And she said, try this on. I said, that's really sweet of you, but that's not my size, and that's really not my color. She says, honey, that is your size. That is your color. Try it on.

Boom.

Like that. She hit me over the head with that red dress. I'm like, wow, she's right. Like, all this internal stuff isn't working. I need to, like, do something. So I grab the dress, I slip into it, I twirl around like Cinderella, and I look in the mirror, and I was like, oh, my God. I'm a princess. Like, it was that Disney moment, and I like, wow. I feel different. I'm seeing myself different. It was this, like, visceral response in my body. And so I. I go out into the world, and I wear this dress, and I just practice being in this dress. This is where the whole thing started. And I realized, oh, my gosh, this whole time, I was wearing the black clothes as a cloak to keep me invisible from men because I was scared of being seen. This is where it all started. Like, I need to market myself. So I just had to get used to being seen, knowing that I was sexy, knowing that I was worthy. I had to learn how to flirt all over again. I mean, the last time I flirted was in college. I didn't know how to. To the alien men. So that's where everything shifted, and I realized that there was a symbiotic relationship between the outside and the inside when it comes to confidence that it's not a superficial thing to think about how we carry ourselves. Our energy is just as important as the inside. So that's where my business was born. And then I started doing styling on other people and using the coaching with my therapy. And now I have this holistic approach in helping people.

Well, that's awesome. I. I love that personal journey, and I think a lot of men and women will identify with that. Right? Because it's almost like reinvention.

Oh, totally.

Of your life. And I think that from a man's perspective, and oftentimes a lot of my men are divorced or a widower. They're like, they haven't been on the dating team for decades and now find themselves. Okay, well, I need to do that. And let's talk about the number one mistake that men make when they flirt and what should they be doing? So give us a little one on one course. These men, who hasn't dated in 20 years, maybe even more. What they need to start paying attention, what the mistake they make and what they should be doing.

Wait, I can only say one. There's. Okay, no, I will. Well, first of all, I do flirt workshops. And happy to share that with your audience as well, because I have one coming up and I do dating retreats and they're always co ed. And the funniest thing about flirting is that I ask all the time, like, what's your definition of flirting? Like, that's the first thing. First mistake is that people have a very interesting definition of what flirting is all about. But what I share with people is, like, when you look in the dictionary and you see how it's defined, it says to behave as though you are attracted to someone without the serious intention of an outcome. Now that last part attached to the outcome is what trips the everyone up. And I would say is the number one mistake. So everyone has these, like, fears and excuses about what's next, like, oh, I don't know what to say, or oh, I don't want to come across as creepy. They get in their head about it. Oh, what's a line? Oh, I haven't dated in X amount of years. Like, there's all this like, monkey chatter happening on how they're coming across. And so guys really worry about the approach. And so then what happens is, is that they hesitate. And I know you and I talked about that on our podcast too, but this is how I see it in application in the real world with flirting. And here's the oxymoron of it all is that in efforts to not wanting to be creepy, they end up being creepy because. Because they're hesitating, right? Like, no woman wants a guy just staring at, at them without any kind of just fluid type of like, just response. And I tell people, guys, just jump, just go out. It doesn't matter. It doesn't have to be like, sexy or witty or funny or clever. It could just be high. I use the metaphor a lot with children. Like, you see children on a playground, like four or five years old, they don't have filters yet. They haven't had trauma happen or hurt happen. And this is, as a therapist I see is part of why people are in their heads. They just go up to people like, hey, you want to play? They don't say, oh, I shouldn't go up to that person. They look really busy, or they don't want to talk to me. Right. They just say, hi. So it's coming from that place of curiosity and openness is the first thing that I really try to help men with, because they always want a line from me. They're like, kimmy, give me a line. I'm like, I have no line. I teach them a social engagement formula on how to get out of the head and into something that's more plan, playful and storytelling in nature.

Okay, so what does that mean, how to get out of the head?

Well, meaning that they're trying to think of a line and what's next, rather than being just playful in their body and coming from a place of curiosity, because at the end of the day, it's how you make a woman feel. It's not about what or the clever line. And if a woman detects that it's a line or something that's prefabricated or you're hesitating, it feels. Feels inauthentic. It feels disconnected. And. And that's when women feel the creepy factor, to be honest. So it's like closing the gap and just playing. Like, when I do my dating retreats, it's so fun. Like, I have people go on scavenger hunts, and they have, like, different prompts and directives where they have to do goofy things in the field. Like, they'll go to bars and restaurants, and I'll have them just do playful interactions. And we do role playing, and I do improv with them just to get them warmed up, because it's really. It's about that, like, playfulness. We all kind of go back to when we were in kindergarten, when the boys chase the girls on the playground, and we like that as women.

So is this still had things changed now in 20, 26 versus, like, 20 years ago? As in dating?

Yes, let's change. Yeah. Because I focus on later daters. Anybody over 40 listening to this? It's something that I'm very passionate about because it used to be where, first of all, we didn't have social media. We didn't have dating apps. We didn't have technology. So people were actually forced. Oh, my God, dare I say, to meet people in real life, in the wild. Right? Like, and people only had a couple people to select from. Like, maybe it was Susie across the way or Betty next door. And then you struck up a conversation and you cultivated that as somebody who Maybe could be your potential partner and build a life with. Well now it's not like that anymore. And in good ways and some challenging ways. Right. Like we now have so many possibilities. We have way more choice, which is beautiful because now we could maybe find a partner that's more right for us in this age that we're at. Because what we wanted in our twenties might be different and it usually is different than when we're in our 50s, 60s, 70s. So it's really like a lot of people that's another mistake I see with dating is that people are going out there dating as a relationship person rather than a dater.

What does that mean? What does that mean?

Yeah, because they're going out looking for their next girlfriend, but they've never even just dated for the sake of dating to get to know themselves and what they're wanting in the stage of their life. And so they might get just locked in with somebody else, but they're not really figuring out who they are separate from a partner yet.

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So it's a really crucial like and beautiful bridge and transformation and reinvention when you are discovering yourself by just meeting lots of women. Just not, it's not even necessarily having sex with women, it's just meeting lots of women. Like if you've been a kid in the candy store that's only had a, a Hershey bar, how do you don't want a gobstopper or a lollipop or like you who haven't tasted the world and your goals are different now. Maybe you just want a travel partner, maybe you, you want a situationship. I don't know, like you can have anything you want in this modern day world and at the age you're at, it's a beautiful thing. But sometimes that can be challenging just understanding all the nuances of that. The other thing with modern dating obviously are the apps, right? And so a go out there and they don't know how to navigate the apps and they'll use like the DM exchanges as if they were like writing an email or something. Like they don't know how to Flirt online. And that's a really crucial skill to learn as they're getting out there and dating. I'll tell a story of this guy I dated. It was like he was a widower and he was getting back out there and he had no clue what he was doing. Like, I think Maybe he was 70 at the time that I met him. Him. And he's like, kimmy, I just need help. Like, I don't know how to flirt. Been a long time. I don't know how do you. We do these dating apps and I did a whole thing, like, I'm kind of like Hitch meets what not to Wear for those references. Like, I took him shopping first because his clothes were very nerdy. I'm not gonna lie. A lot of them were like, too big on. Like, those clothes were big on him. He didn't have edge. He did not have sex appeal in his clothes. And he didn't even know what that was. Right. So I first. This is the outside in approach. I first had to get him marketing himself like a sexy man because even if I taught him the skills, wearing those nerdy clothes was not going to do it for him. So I, I had to get him a little bit updated there. So we did that and then we started just doing cold approaches with women. We started teaching him how to flirt. But then we worked on his profile and like, he didn't even know how to send me his pictures. He got new pictures done and everything. And he brought in a manila folder, all of his pictures, and we spread them out on the table and we picked out the right ones for him. And then we worked on, like, how to text a woman. How do you keep it going?

Right?

Like, and I know you work with sexual dysfunction and eating. It's almost like ED and flirting, right?

Like, right.

If. If you don't know how to keep things going, you will lose the woman. Like, in this modern day world, everyone is so busy. We're doing a zillion things. And in this age group, we have grandchildren to deal with, we have children, we have jobs. If you don't know how to keep that sexual tension going in between your dates, it dies. So there's a lot of little nuances with all this stuff. And I know there's so much to talk about, but just to give you an idea, this is the kind of thing I treat dating as a skill. Never done it. How are you supposed to know it? You got to practice it. You got to learn it. You got to start in kindergarten.

What you were talking. I wrote down. This question, is flirting online different than flirting in person?

It's the same in that it's how you make somebody feel. And so sometimes I'll look into profile because I go into like bumble or match and these dating profiles and I'll look at like the exchange that's happening and often it looks like a LinkedIn exchange. I'm like, oh my God, this is so boring. I'm like this. So having just, I call it transactional DMs. It just looks like a business transaction. There's nothing fun, there's nothing flirty about it. Like it won't make a woman move the needle with you. And that's why a lot of guys sadly fall into the friend zone. So I teach them how to be in the flirt zone with their DMs. Same thing with offline. It's how you make a woman feel, not about just the tactics that you use. So it's a lot of it is unspoken words, it's the way you touch a woman, it's the non verbals, it's the way that you look at her, it's the way that you emote with your feelings and tap into the emotional triggers that creates the attraction. So it's really, really interesting because a lot of guys, because they get in their heads, they worry more about the tactics than the actual feeling of the interaction. And that goes for both online and offline. So instead of just firing questions at a woman, that's where I see like the Q and A and the interview happen. And like when they're on dates, that's where things die. And then women will come back and say, I didn't feel the chemistry. You didn't play. It was a transaction. It was just like, oh, so how many kids do you have? How long have you lived here for?

Yeah, you've been to.

Oh my God, that's so boring. So boring. It's more like sometimes the most nonsensical interactions and conversations are the best one.

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It's everything that we're talking about. So what the charisma quotient does, it's the name of my podcast. It's what you are on actually. And Definitely check out Dr. Ann's episode by the way. It was amazing. So I'll put that out too. It's the formula that I teach people to do and it is the outside in approach. And the reason why I love the word charisma is because it's something that is taught and learned, not something that people are born with. This is what research says. So I have taught an 85 year old woman to go to a bar and pick up a man, right? Like the age does not discriminate with this stuff. But what I do with people is I look at three different pillars in the charisma quotient. The first pillar is what I call style intelligence. And this is the outside in approach. So I start there and I assess that and this relates to sexy confidence, right? It's your style, it's your like energy, it's your body language, it's your first impressions. Like how do you come across in that first hit? It only takes seven seconds to make a first impression. That's all you got now, seven seconds. That's what research says. Like only a couple of years ago was 30 seconds. So now it's like with technology too. It's happening so fast and most of.

It is not verbal, but it's all nonverbal.

That's why I start with the style intelligence because like I said, you can do all this work on yourself but if you're not focusing on your first impression non verbal stuff in the style intelligence, it doesn't matter because then opportunities start passing you by. And then the second pillar is emotional intelligence. Obviously as a therapist is a big part of what I work on in attraction and relationships is that how we express ourselves, how we emote, how we are vulnerable, how authentic we are in our interactions is also going to make or break the way that we relate to each other and how somebody feels. So with sexy confidence. Like if, if you, let's say are not confident in the way you express yourself, you're a little guarded. Maybe there's been things that have hurt you. Like in relationships you might come across as stiff or very logical or very almost friend zone y because you're not allowing a woman to really think feel you. I'll give you an example of what that looks like because men are, you're probably are like well, what does that mean? Because men, let's. Let's face it, women have a bigger space in their brain of emotional language than men do. So, like, we're wired differently. But I always tell men, if you can tap into that part of our brain, you got us.

Hey, listen, man, listen to this. Okay? How do you tap into that woman brain?

Well, to give an example, and it relates to the social engagement formula that I teach people when I work with them. We don't have time to go over all of that, but there was a man who did it to me, and I was working out at my health club and we came out and we were standing at the elevator. Now, if people even talk to each other anymore, maybe a good thing would be to say, oh, did you have a good workout? And not that there's anything wrong with that. That's a nice gesture and to ask, but it's probably just a safe kind of interaction. Oh, it was good in yours. Yeah, it was good. And then it just dies, right? There's nothing that happens. He did a great thing with me that I try to teach everybody. He started with an emotion and a story. He looks at me, he shakes his head, and he says, I'm exhausted. It was awesome. What a great entry. I'm like, oh, my God, me too. He's like, yeah, I couldn't get through my workout. I said, oh, my gosh, me either. I don't know what was going on. So we're joining in emotion, not being like, oh, did you have a good work? I mean, that's boring. He became human. He became real. It wasn't a tactic. It wasn't something that was safe. He went under the radar and came at it at a very human type of trigger for me. And so I had a better conversation in that elevator for, I don't know, it was like maybe two minutes than a 15 minute conversation that was boring and played it safe. So my point in telling you that it's amazing how you can use the vulnerability and emotion and attraction in that first hit. Now, the third pillar is what I call social intelligence. And obviously, like people, they know that word, they know emotional intelligence. But I teach it in relation to dating, how comfortable you are socially. I work, I'd say 90% of my clients are introverts, and they're also high achievers. So they get in their head that. That social battery gets drained. The thought of making conversation is exhausting for them. So, yeah, flirting is hard in that first hit. So really helping people get over that hump and Closing the gaps to get more comfortable with themselves, and then that makes other people look at them as more sexy and confident.

Well, that kind of leads me to the thing, is that a lot of the people we we work with are. Haven't dated in a while. And if you haven't used that skill, you need a refresher. You really need a refresher. And I know that you have a special deal for our listeners, for your workshop, so please share that. But to me, it's like I'm a tennis player, but I haven't played tennis in a while, like, 10 years. I'm gonna need to take some lessons. I'm gonna have to take some group stuff to hone in my skill. It's the same thing with flirty, because you said flirting. You're not born with charisma. You're not born with it. You hone in the skill and what works. And working with a coach, that can really show you the roadmap to get there, because I believe that all of us can hone in that skill. Now, there are some that are a little bit more natural than others, depending on your introvert or extrovert, but everyone can flirt. And as long as, like, what you just said, all these things that you have said that I'm aware of, but I couldn't articulate it or even visually see that. So tell us about your workshop.

Yes. Oh, my God. Well, and to button up, even the last question about confidence, it relates to the workshop, is that I believe, like, the way I define confidence in general is experience. That's it. I don't believe there's one person out there listening that's not confident. It's just that there may be an area that you haven't had enough practicing positive exposure to, or maybe it's just something you never, never learned and never knew. So how do you get it? You got to practice. But not only practice, you got to have someone hold you accountable, and you got to do it in repetition. It's just like what you do with your clients. I mean, it's never a good idea to just tell one of your clients, oh, just be more confident. Get out of your head. You'll be fine. No, what do I need to do? Well, you got to do the exercises. You got to do the shake that you have, like, all the things. So I like to break it down into almost like those measurable, mini, tangible things that you can do that add up to the confidence. And one of the things that I encourage everyone to do is to take my workshop because it's co ed and there's men and women in there. And for three hours we get things done. Like you'll learn through a PowerPoint of my tips. And I do a dating skill each month. I happen to have one coming up in February. February 25th. It's a flirt workshop. But then every month I do a different dating skill skill so you can just practice that. And then we go into breakout rooms in the VIP rooms. I'm happy to gift all your listeners a free upgrade to the VIP room because I want your listeners to put themselves into practice. It's not enough to listen and chat in the chat. I want them interacting and that'll build your confidence and from there, like, who knows where you'll go. So yeah, I love it. And also if you go to stophatingdating.com that's where you can register. And I'll give everyone a code for your listener so they'll get that free upgrade. There's another thing that they could do. This is for free. You could go to flirtover40.com and take a flirt quiz to see what kind of flirt you are. And, and that way it can give you a baseline of some of the things that are tripping you up where you can go. From there. You'll get some video series for me and tips along the way. Reminder to come to the workshop.

Okay, so the flirt quiz is what, what's the URL for the float quiz again?

Flirt over40.com that's flirtover40.com so flirtover40.com and take the quiz.

Then sign up for her workshop and she gifting the listener what she's going to give us the code. I'll put it in the description. So check the description down below so that way you can get VIP upgrades. That's when you get to interact with with Kimmy and interact with other people that sign up for who knows who you will meet and you get to practice as well. So this is awesome. What is that URL to sign up for the workshop?

Yeah, It's Stop hating dating dot com.

Okay. Dating.com Stop hating dating dot com she has one every month, right? So if you can't make it next next month, then March and April and and I would tell you it's they think of it like flirting, like a skill that you haven't use it a long time. And like I mentioned earlier, I'm a tennis player but I haven't picked up a tennis in like 10 years. You're gonna need some lessons you're gonna need a refresher. And so guys, if you're getting to the dating scene again, go to Kimmy's workshop and get honed in the skill. You never know. You never know who you're gonna meet in there. And just start practicing because when you are confident on the inside, you'll also feel confident as well on the outside. But then it works together, right? And I can't tell you how important this is. So, Kimmy, thank you so much being on our podcast and sharing your wisdom and I can't wait for our listeners to really join in on your workshop. You tell us in the comment, how did it go for you all as well? So check out for the discount code as well too. So having said that, Modern man, remember that when you get dating, you have strategies and you have somebody to learn from. That's Kimmy. And just know that you are not alone. There are alternative and we're here to help you. So we'll see you in the next episode. Okay, Modern man, you are not alone. And you don't have to suffer anymore. Ed can feel isolating, frustrating and even defeating. The endless guessing, the quiet shame, the weight of not feeling like yourself. It's exhausting. But here's the truth. You are not broken. You are not alone. You don't have to figure this out alone anymore. The Get Wood now Bush program is your step by step path to sexual confidence and restoration. No more suffering in silence. No more trial and error. Just real solution, real result and the confidence you deserve. It's time to take back your power on your term. Let's get this journey started together. Check out the course@getwoodnow.com I'll see you there.