Dating With Sexual Dysfunction With Anna Leonarda

This podcast is for you. The modern man. I'm Dr. Anne Truong, your host. I'm an intimate health medical doctor and best selling author of the book Erectile Dysfunction Fix. I'll do a deep dive into sexual health and performance and how it affects men of all ages and backgrounds. So let's get started and be sure to visit my website@sexualhealthfulmenpodcast.com for more information and resources from the show. See you on the inside. Well, hello there. We are here today because we're gonna talk about have you ever wonder what it's like to not be able to enjoy sex because you have a challenge, particularly from a woman perspective? And that's what we're gonna talk about today is what's it like not to have sex because of a painful condition. And today I have Anna Leonarda. She is the creator of the app Entwine, which is a dating app for people with sexual dysfunction. And she kind of shared about her journey and why she created a much needed app like Entwine. So, Anna, welcome.

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

All right, so. So it takes a lot of courage for her to be here today because I want her to talk about her story and her journey and I applaud her for her courage for being here. So, Anna, tell me about what your story is and how it got you to where you're at today. Tell me about what's happened to you when you were younger and your challenges.

Okay. So growing up, I had something called endometriosis. And one of the side effects of endometriosis is it can cause painful intercourse. So when I became sexually active, I had the painful intercourse and it didn't really subside. It was always getting worse. And my lack of libido also kicked in. And I did get married. I had a couple of kids, which was great. I'm very grateful for that. And over time, with having the pain so much, one day I just couldn't have sex anymore. It was like hitting a wall. So I went to the doctor and they told me that I had something called vaginismus. And I believe I had it for a while. I just couldn't find a doctor that would actually listen to me and understand that I really wasn't.

What? Vaginismus. For people that doesn't know what that is.

So vaginismus is the involuntary muscle contraction of the vaginal opening. And the reason it can happen is when I went to the doctor and I told him about my condition or when they Diagnosed me. They told me to go to a therapist. So I did go to the therapist and I said, how did this happen? Why did this happen? And they said that here's a scenario that is similar to what's going on with your vaginal entrance. And they said that if somebody came up to you and kept punching you in the stomach over and over again, eventually when they would approach you, you would flinch in the anticipation of the pain. And that's what my vagina was doing, was kind of just saying, nothing's going in there. Things stay away. It associated anything internally that was going to be painful. So I ended up doing therapy for it for a little bit. And it involved using dilators and trying to stretch the opening out of my vagina. And it was a very slow process. I was very impatient with it because it's not like something that's just fixed overnight. It can take months to a year to repair that. So I was trying to do the therapy and then I was taking a shower. I was 36 years old, I was taking a shower and I found a breast lump. So I thought it was nothing because I thought there's no family history. So I went to the doctor and, and found out that I had breast cancer after a biopsy. So I had three tumors in my left breast and I had chemotherapy. I lost all my hair. And not only did that did I lose my hair, I lost my libido. I had vaginal, extreme vaginal dryness. And I knew that I didn't want to think about using my dilators anymore. So sex was completely off the table, even any kind of forms of intimacy, just because of. I was just trying to beat cancer at the time. And I did beat it. I had a total of 6 surgeries and total hysterectomy because my breast cancer was estrogen fed. So the goal was to get rid of all my estrogen. And so I beat cancer. And then I thought, let me try using my dilators again. But same thing. It was back to stay stage one, where step one, where I had severe vaginismus. And then I was married at the time for 20 years. So after I got divorced three years ago, I thought, how am I going to date somebody and how are they going to understand that I have these sexual limitations that I can't have sex? Like all the other forms of intimacy I'm okay with. I just can't have internal penetration. So I thought, well, you know, it's easier to just stay single because who's going to want to be with me? If I can't have sex. And I thought about the pressure of having to go on a date and having to tell that person, the man I'm dating, you know, oh, I can't have sex. Should I tell them the first date, the second date, the third date? You know, I already had anxiety thinking about it. And I thought, you know what? I'll just stay single. Or if I could just find a guy that has erectile dysfunction. I mean, I wasn't even joking about it, but I thought if I could find a gentleman that had ed, he would understand and he wouldn't put that pressure on me to cure myself and do my treatment. And I also realized that there was a lot of men that were going on dates with my friends and other women.

And you're absolutely right. There are at least, right now, at least 30 million men right now suffering with ED, at least. And that was done in 2009. There are 30 million men aged between 40 to 70 have ED, and I think right now is probably now at least 40. Cause that, that study was done in 2009. And now that we know with COVID Covid also contribute to ED as well, too, and probably the number is even higher. So you're absolutely right. So you were saying that you were. You created the app so that way men with sexual dysfunction can also join in the app as well, right?

Yes, because they deserve to be loved, too. And we didn't choose to have the sexual dysfunction. And, and we shouldn't have to worry if someone's going to reject us or embarrass us or. Or cheat on us because we can't have intercourse. And, you know, like we mentioned, the intimacy can be anything. Could be holding hands and kissing and even long conversations can be intimacy. And just because you can't have sex doesn't mean that you. Or intercourse doesn't mean that you. You shouldn't be with anybody. So I knew there was a problem. Right. Researched and I found how many millions of men just in the U.S. have Ed? I thought I have to save these men because they're, I mean, I can't imagine the pressure. I mean, for myself, you know, I haven't dated before, so. But I thought for these guys that have dated and they're. They're rejected or these women, that maybe they're, you know, maybe they're sexually, you know, assaulted and maybe that's why they don't want to have sex. Or it could be anything. It could be diabetes, it could be high blood pressure, as, you know, so it's It's. And it doesn't have to be cancer, but I thought, I can't just be single. There's a reason why I went through endometriosis, broken vagina, the vaginismus, you know, and. And. And also the cancer for a reason. And that's the reason, is for me to create a dating app that takes sexual expectations out of dating so people can be themselves and join the app and be able to comfortably find companionship without the fear of being rejected or embarrassed because of their limitations.

And I applaud you for that. Because not only that, you have vaginismus, which is tightening of the vaginal opening due to scar tissue and decreased blood flow to the vaginal muscle, which is a very, very painful condition. On top of that, you have breast cancer and surgery and chemotherapy, which deplete all your hormones so that you're dry down there. You have no hormone, you have no lubrication, you have no libido, which make accentuate the pain in the vaginal area even more so for a woman that doesn't even have vaginism and just have breast cancer alone. That the hormonal depletion itself will cause a painful intercourse itself. Because a lot of times they can't be on hormone and they require lubrication. Thank God. Now there are good lubrication, and there is such a thing, a procedure called an oshot, which is an injection of your own blood to rejuvenate blood flow again to the vaginal muscle. So know women and men, there are a procedure that you can get injected with your own blood into the genital area to restore blood flow again for painful conditions such as yourself and for ed? So I want you to share your story. What is it like? What is it like for a woman that has sexual dysfunction and the anticipation before intercourse and during intercourse and after intercourse. Tell us what you're feeling.

The way I felt was, since I was married for quite a while, I would always get anxiety prior to any types of intimacy. Because I always thought in my head, okay, it's gonna leave to sex and it's gonna be painful and I have to deal with it. And I would just kind of give me myself a pep talk. Cause I'm like, I just. Okay, I found myself avoiding going to bed and, you know, just waiting for him to fall asleep before I go into the room. And, you know, that's obviously not healthy, but I didn't want to be the one that just always complain about it. And I thought, this is normal. I talked to four different Doctors and they all said, oh, you're fine. Sex hurts because you're nervous. Have a glass of wine. So I just thought, you know, I need to suck it up. So I would just kind of, like I said, talk to myself and kind of just say, okay, you got to do this. And then. So I was always anxious prior to. And it's hard to relax and. And get into it when you're so nervous. But. And then during was more like, okay, hopefully it'll be done soon. You know, it just was like there was like so much emotion. So like, usually, like, when I was. Everything was done, I was like, I was shaking because of the pain, holding it in. And it's like, this is not normal, you know, But I just dealt with it. And then I. And then after the fact, I felt just like. I felt like, horrible because I'm like, I'm married. I'm like, I'm not fulfilling my. What, the needs of my husband because I can't have sex. And it's like. It's like, what do you do? I had no choice, you know, it's like, I just. So my only choice was, to me, was just deal with the pain. And. And. And that's not okay. I mean, if you're in pain and you're. And you went to a doctor and they tell you just, it's normal, Have a glass of wine, go to another doctor. Just keep going until you find an answer because you know your body, and no one should ever have to just tough it out and deal with that pain.

No, no, you're absolutely right. You do not have to suffer alone. You are not broken. There are many, many women that are in your situation that do not have to suffer alone. And there are doctors that are familiar with your condition. And I'm sorry that, you know, you had provider in the past. I said, you know, you kind of in your head or feel that you have to suffer for this. So why do you feel bad even though it's not your fault? I mean, it is a physical condition and it's causing you discomfort. Why is it your fault? Why is it that you feel it is your problem? And did you feel that you can relay that to your partner?

I. I didn't. I know he thought it was his fault and then. But I was like, no, it's just me, you know, but, you know, because it's. I think just mentally, it's hard to. It just. I just felt like it's just my fault. Maybe I'm depressed. Maybe, you know, maybe I don't know what it was. And. And. And I just thought the easiest way to do it is just blame myself. And I just was desperate to find an answer, and I just couldn't. Couldn't really find one until it got to the point where it was, like, severe, where nothing would go in at all. And I was just really frustrated, I think, too, and I was angry. So I'm like, why did I. I've never enjoyed sex. It's like, you know, I talked to my friends, and they're like, oh, you're with the wrong guy. You know, I did this, and I did this position. I'm like, well, that sounds really painful. And so. So I felt like it was like a recipe of disaster for my marriage as well, because I thought if I. If I'm gonna have this issue for my whole marriage, it's like, it was tough. It's very tough.

Yes, yes, I can see that. I can see that. And it became. It drove you guys apart. Right?

I mean, there's other factors as well, but I'm sure that's one of the reasons.

Right, right. So the discomfort and then, you know, the other factors as well, and you got drifted apart. And, you know, so what. What was interesting was that, you know, it was. It was painful for you, but yet you. You felt it was your fault and that you blame yourself. You know, you're saying depressed and anxious for that. And I see that in a lot in women in taking the blame for it when it's really not at all. And it's really where it's at a time where you can have open communication and discover other methods beside, like, you stress. And that's why you created an app. There are many ways of enjoying sexual intimacy with our P and V. Right, right, right.

And.

And let's discuss about that. What. What. What are other ways of. Of enjoying sexual intimacy without pmv?

I mean, it can even be the outer course, you know, I don't know if that's the proper word, but, you know, anything. Externally grinding, I guess if you want to call it that, it could be that. It could be even just watching TV together and holding hands and long walks on the beach. I feel like there's. I mean, kissing, hugging, and I love hugging and kissing.

And.

And. And I would be fine with just with that. And I know there's, you know, guys out there that are the same. Like, you know, they. I. I even thought, like, there's. I think there's guys out there that are kind of like how I was. If they are married, they're kind of avoiding going to the bedroom with their significant other because they're like, okay, now it's going to be a reminder that I have Ed. So it's kind of like with me, you know, now it's gonna be a reminder that I can't have sex because we're gonna be in this intimate situation. We're both gonna get frustrated. So. But they're, you know. Yeah. I mean, you can hold each other for hours, and that's intimacy. There is definitely other forms of intimacy besides internal. Internal penetration, right?

Absolutely. And, you know, I've treated thousands of men, and the first thing that they tell me is that when they come and see me for Ed, I ask, did you tell your partner or your wife? They go, no, she's the last person that will find out if I have Ed. And I go, well, so what. What do you do when you find out you have Ed? You know what the first thing he says? He said, I avoid it. I avoid sex. I avoid having sex with her because I don't want her to know that I have Ed. And then I'll take a Viagra or Cialis, you know, be behind. Behind doors so that way I can perform. And that way she know that, you know, I'm, you know, I don't have any issue. She's the last person that. That know that I have any issue. And kind of like you. You're. You're trying to avoid it, giving excuses and almost ashamed that you have, you know, an issue there. Same thing with the band. Avoidance.

Yeah. And they definitely should communicate because think what the women think is, oh, he has Ed. It's my fault. It's my fault, you know, he's not attracted to me anymore. And then, you know, so it's like. And then he avoids it. And then he's avoiding it because he's worried about being embarrassed. And she's, like, thinking he's avoiding it because she doesn't want to be with her anymore. But that woman probably wants to be with you still. She wants to work with you, and she wants other forms of intimacy. So don't throw all the intimacy out off the table because you're trying to avoid having to show her that or disclose whatever the word is, you know, have the proof that you have, might have Ed. And that's. That's. That'll kill a relationship quick. So definitely communicate because I. I should have said, you know, hey, I'm avoiding you, my ex husband. I'm avoiding you because I'm scared. I'm gonna let you down again. So can we do this instead? You know, and I never did that because I just thought it has to be intercourse or nothing at all, otherwise I'm not worth it. And that's not good, you know, so if you're in a relationship, you know, you have to communicate, just don't ignore it and avoid your partner, because that's just a recipe for disaster, in my opinion.

You're absolutely right. Studies have shown that in fact, in order to treat sexual dysfunction, communication is a treatment. You don't have to have the physical treatment of the genital area, just communication and bonding, emotional bonding and communication in itself is also a treatment. And you know, in my treatment approach, I have the multimodality approach. And the brain is the largest sexual organ. And, and everything starts in the brain, right? We get aroused in the brain with our senses, with our vision, our smells, our taste, our hearing. That's how we get aroused. And everything starts here. And then the hormone starts released in our hypothalamus, our glands, in the glands behind the eyes, and then it gets released and then stimulate the nerve. Everything starts here, in between our ears. If these in between our ears are not working well, there things are not going to transmit down to below the waist. So like you said, there need to be connection and positivity and relaxation going on up here. And so I always stress to men and women, in order to heal and to restore function below the waist, you got to work on up here and connection and communication with your partner, because that is part of the healing process as well. And that in itself is a treatment because studies have shown that if your partner is supportive in your sexual healing, that contribute to your resolution itself alone. Even though we don't know, we do know that placebo healing actually accounts about 30 to 50% of healing in itself. So that's amazing in itself as well too. So part of the vaginismus that you had mentioned was also the emotional component that kind of goes with it, which exacerbate, you know, things as well because you were painful. And there were other challenges in the relationship as well too, that can kind of contribute to the vaginismus. But know the vaginismus is treatable. It's treatable with dilator, like you said, but it's also treatable with therapy, even surgery, and also with procedure with injecting with your own blood called platelet rich plasma that's injected in the muscle and the vagina to restore blood flow and, and to restore the muscle functioning again. So you do not have to live with this, know that there is a treatment for this at this point. So I'm so glad that you have come and share your story and your vulnerability and be transparent with us. I know it's not easy and just the courage to say I suffer through this and I don't want anybody else to kind of go through what I have went through and to create an app to bring people together and not want to be loved for who they are and not for, you know, the sexual. The PMV gratification. Right, right. And I want you to tell me about what you like to achieve. What's your vision of the app of Entwine?

So, currently, Entwine is available only in the US Because I'm just. It just recently launched in August of 2021. So I'm focusing on just making sure that it's successful in the US but my ultimate goal is to have it available worldwide because I believe that worldwide the ED is approximately 320 million men.

3. Approximately about 300. 300 million.

And I already had people from different countries that have contacted me, asking me when the app is going to be available in their country. So I hate to even tell them it's not available yet. But that's my ultimate goal, is to have it available worldwide because I want to reach so many different. Different clinics and everything like cancer centers, urologists, men's health clinics, even veterans VA clinics. I know there's a lot of veterans that maybe are going through PTSD and they're antidepressants, so. And they're suicidal because they're lonely. They lost hope. They thought they couldn't find anybody. So my ultimate dream is to have it available worldwide because I feel like we all deserve to be loved. And regardless of our limitations that we have, we deserve to have companionship. And I want everybody to know that so that they know it's available and that suicide's never an option, of course, for anything. And I just want to increase awareness with. With sexual dysfunction and people that do struggle with it, if they have suddenly heavy d. Go to the doctor. You know, don't be afraid because it could be something, an underlying condition that can be a warning sign of an event coming up, like a stroke or a heart attack. Who knows what it is. But I just. There's a lot I want to do, but worldwide is my goal. So I'm hoping. I'm actually confident that that is going to be. That is going to come true.

Well, and I hope so, too. And I. And I will help you with that as well. So I will put the link to the app in our show notes down below. And the point is that we all deserve to be loved and there is somebody there that has shared your condition and you are not alone and you are not broken and there check out Entwine app. And Anna, I appreciate your courage and your time to talk about your experience and I hope that listeners out there that if you're listening to this that you will take the initiative to know that there is something out there and reach out for help and do not suffer in silence. Thank you Anna.

Thank you so much.

See you next time.

Take care.

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