Brendan and Nick talk with veterinary nutritionist Dr. Conor Brady about raw feeding, including a recent TB outbreak in UK cats and how to manage skin issues like yeast and lick granulomas. They cover diagnostic approaches, the importance of PCR testing in meat, and debate alternative testing methods like bioresonance.
Chapters
Something's not quite— Hello to everybody, YouTube land. We are live. We are just trying to contact our buddy, Mr. Conor Brady.
Literally trying to ring him. Look, there's his little—
his dog.
He's not answering. So I think we should just crack on, Brent.
Yeah, I do too.
Okay, no worries.
It's always interesting to see what happens in these little occasions. But there we go. It is what it is.
Never work with children or animals, guys.
As they say. Yes. But hopefully we are going to be live on Facebook any moment. So let's just wait.
Okay. So we're on YouTube.
We're definitely on YouTube.
Okay. So I'm going to say to all the guys on YouTube, please smash the subscribe button. And give us a thumbs up because that helps to focus the logarithm towards us. It does.
And what, guess what? I've managed to get it to work on Facebook. We're actually live.
We're actually live. Fancy, fancy. So Nevins is with us here from Michigan. Fabulous. Great to see you. And Sherrilyn is there. Sherrilyn, where are you? And Erin Biggers is here from New York, New York City. Oh, look at that. Look at that. Sheryl Lynn is from St. Augustine, Florida. Wow, look at that. We've got Michigan, we've got New York, we've got Florida.
Oh, Sheryl Lynn, are you going to manage to make it to see us at the Judy Morgan stuff?
In Orlando, second weekend in October. Do come along. It'd be great to see you.
Yeah, it really would. In fact, Aaron, anybody over stateside that's able to explore around and come visit—
and if you can't, if you can't come visit, come say hi, we'd love to see you. But if you can't, then they— I think they're both going to be online, the, the Orlando gig with, with Dr. Judy and the, um, the San Diego gig, which is the first weekend, with, with Ruby. And Feed Real, which is good. Unfortunately, the Feed Real with Ruby, that summit is full, but she has sent me some details to read out, so I might just take this if we're giving Brady a couple of minutes to get his A into G. So the details of the Feed Real summit, which is in in San Diego first weekend in October this year. So what, it's like 6 weeks away or so? Yeah, it's called the Feed Real Summit and it's the biggest holistic dog wellness conference in the US and is sold out this year, says Ruby. I'm not sure whether Ruby's is bigger or whether Judy's is bigger. It doesn't really matter because they're both doing fantastic work and it's really, really brilliant. Um, it's a 2.0. Dog parents and veterinary professionals alike to learn about practical paths to dog longevity. There is a waiting list, uh, is opening on Monday the 12th of August. There are extra tickets reserved to our sponsors' staff that are— we are giving away. So there might be one or two tickets if you want to sneak over to—
look at their sponsors, look at their sponsors, ask their sponsors if they've got a ticket going. Spare, you might—
Yeah, exactly. Oh yes, if you know the sponsors, then, and then talk to them direct. Folks can sign up for the waitlist at, uh, feedreal.com/summit, feedreal.com, uh, /summit, and get first dibs on next year's tickets.
Yeah, great stuff. Right, tickets. Oh, I guess you're in advance.
They may be doing them. And some, some of their speakers, they've got Angela Ardolino, they've got some guy called Rodney Habib, some person called Karen Becker, Amy Rents, Conor, and, uh, and myself. Brendan, you're going to be doing a little, a little thing with Rubies. Maybe we'll do a Q&A or—
yeah, I believe—
I'm sure we're going to get on stage sooner or later to, to give everybody the full flavor of that RPM thing.
Yeah, we're, we're more than open to doing a little bit of Q&A. I think they wanted some of that action, I think, because they enjoy watching us. So that's great, you know, good stuff.
Excellent, excellent. Erin's in Albany, New York.
Yep.
Fab. And, um, and Sherilyn's definitely coming, so we'll see you, Sherilyn.
She's coming. Great.
What, 6 weeks? Just about thereabouts. Uh, so good stuff. Um, so you'll notice we've got an absence. Um, He had a rather enjoyable time at the weekend and we'll catch up about that in a moment. But he's for some reason not able to make a connection tonight.
Maybe one of the children is sick or something. I doubt very much that even he could forget because we've been doing it every day for 3 and a half years or something.
Well, it's been a bank holiday and he's possibly—
Yeah, but is it a bank holiday in Ireland?
Well, the fact that he was traveling yesterday, he's probably still thinking he's got 2 days before he's home with us again. He may still think it's a Monday.
Would be actually the most likely thing. But he's thinking it's Monday, so I'm not going to bother with RPM.
And all of you guys, maybe just tune in tomorrow, and if he's live on his own, you'll know why.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, like that's going to happen with Bren without you at the helm doing the electronics. I don't think that's going to happen in a million years. So listen, did you get any good questions? Because Bren was manning manfully the Raw Feeding Veterinary Society stand along with Morag. And, uh, who else was, was on the, uh, Vicky Adams? Yeah, yeah, Vicky Adams, our epidemiologist, wonderful Canadian epidemiologist living over in the UK now. And there was somebody else.
Oh, we had, um, I want to say Rachel, uh, is a veterinary nurse who's into raw feeding from Derbyshire, who was doing, uh a turn. So I do apologize if I got the name wrong, but I'm sure it was that.
Do you like my water bottle? Got this from Groundswell, guys.
There you go.
I love my Soil.
Yes, I've got one of those around somewhere.
Without Soil, where would we be?
Yeah, so, uh, look, lots of great questions this month. Um, yeah, I think there were some that we should have dealt with last month but possibly didn't deal with so well because we did the BVA statement instead. Yeah. Um, do you have that list in front of you?
I have got an A-list in front of me, but you had a few things that, that maybe you wanted to just, uh, yeah, well, ask us before we go there.
You know, do remember, for now, if you want to support what we do and you love listening to us, it's great. Thank you for all of those current supporters. But you can find us over on patreon.com/wildpetmedics. For a price of a pint, you can support what we do, um, getting the message out there for Raw. Um, also feedback on there, um, is what we base our shows around. So if you've got questions, you've got particular interests, put them up there, and that's usually how we generate the next show. So please do remember to, to plug in, um, on there and do look out for, um, there's some new platforms coming with Kajabi, a lot more courses, some, uh, great stuff that you can take part in have a bit more interaction. So all of that's coming, let alone all the shows that we've got. Yeah, we're going to be all over the world, all over the place, so keep an eye out for us. But yeah, more to what we've got, um, frequently asked questions. So there was a little bit of a release by Cat the Vet last week, last week, week before, um, Yet another dig at raw feeders and the relative risks— not even the relative risks, just going, oh, it's risky, because there's been some cat outbreaks with TB and a little bit of— there's probably an ingested source, yet undefined. And it was really interesting that they've just wholesale gone for, oh my God, this is a terrible risk. And don't get me wrong, as a vet, and I'm sure Nick the same, you know, it's terrible to see any animal sick. And seeing the respiratory issues that some of these cats had, you know, my heart goes out to the owners. And trying to find out why this might happen in certain cats has certainly been a bit of an interest-driven for me. Speaking to Edinburgh University, there does seem to be a genetic trait towards susceptibility.
Do you want to just give us a tiny bit of background? As far as I can make out, there's, I think, 11 cats have come down with TB in Edinburgh, and they're thinking, is it from the food? Is it from the mice in Edinburgh? Is it from—
it wasn't in Edinburgh, it was reported by Edinburgh University.
Is it a Scottish outbreak, therefore?
No, it is across the country, and that's why, unlike the previous outbreak, where actually highlighted— and let's put a bit of background here. Danielle Gammour has been writing about TB in cats since 1996. Okay, so well before raw feeding was popular, and lots of stuff has been written since. And obviously there is an element of keeping yourself in front of the cameras, I will say, in one sense. just to maintain sponsorship, etc. Okay.
Uh, oh, okay, so politics comes into it. I will say though, I was at college with Danielle Gunmore, and she is absolutely shit-hot with her feline stuff. But, but, but it's interesting that you, that you, uh, raise that as a possibility.
So I think from a point of view of then, you know, the, the reason talking to her was to highlight they were raising this as a raw feeding issue and proposing that there were some at risks. And this letter that appeared in the Vet Record, okay, which has a little table, has actually a key thing here saying this is not peer-reviewed, okay, by the way.
So this is somebody's opinion.
This is opinion letter written. With the APHA, now initially a lot of things have changed in this letter because the original letter was specifically trying to name a specific source. However, because of RawSafe and the traceability that that puts in place, when it's come to APHA investigating and looking at trying to source this, they suddenly had unlike the previous outbreaks, an open book of where all of these meats came from. So far from the exotic source of a Mycobacterium bovis capri that was talked about, the proposed meats were actually UK-based human abattoirs. Now get me right, these abattoirs that deal with TB meats are very specific and definitively are not allowed their food to enter into a standard food chain. So we know that the testing and everything that they do to try and control TB is in place for all of the meats sourced for this particular company. And I would just then say that traceability, although the company at some point post-adoption have been fed to those cats. Well, it's one of the only companies that does a raw cat food, not the only, but one of the only. When they've actually then come to study it and we've looked at the cases, there isn't a common single line of food that crosses across all of those cats. And what we do then look at is that It now also states in the letter post-adoption questions, and all of the pre-adoption questions, which includes weaning pastes, whether they're feeding raw goat's milk pre-adoption, cannot be answered, and they have not answered those. So there is a possibility of another source still, okay, out with our control, but that's not investigated. But beyond that, yeah, so I accept, look, disparate levels, the genetic code for this particular Mycobacterium is the same, therefore it must be from a common source. However, on the flip side of that, they've talked about a risk and a risk to human health, but they've not talked about a relative risk. They've not given any comparison as to how much of a risk that is. And my upset with that really comes that we end up with people panicking that this is going to be super common. And out of the nearly 4,000 cats that were fed in the same period, we currently only have 11 that have come down with illness. And people said, well, surely that may be just because more have to come. And absolutely, that's a possibility. But actually, that also then labels that the pre-adoption questions are so important because actually, if it can take anywhere between 8 days and 8 months, maybe even 18 months, maybe even 5 years for TB in various cases— this is Danielle talking to us directly— to actually emerge as a disease within those situations, then it becomes important that actually a common source has to be drawn back to the earliest days of possible consumption. Now, because they've come from different litters, it's less likely that it's from the maternal dam, the mother of these kittens, that it's the source. But you know, we've still not ruled out some of the raw goat's milk and things like that. So the goats and sheep in this country are not tested for TB, and that's something to note. So I think the bigger question comes relative risk, you know, you're infinitely more likely to die of eating lettuce, okay, within this year than you are dying of TB contracted from your cat, and that's just based on the maths. You know, a person has died of E. coli on lettuce, nobody's died of TB of this particular serovar from their cat. So I think great to have a warning about TB in cats, that cats seem to be emerging as a possible case, or cases of TB in cats seems to be a possible source of infection now. Dogs, eating the same food do not seem to be affected. Going back to previous outbreaks, the only dog cases were where venison, unchecked venison, was fed to kennels, so effectively hunting kennels where no checks were done on the meats going into them, and they happen to have the same serovar from the venison that was being looked at, but they didn't discover that till 2, 3 years into the checks because of the processes. PCR these days is much quicker. You know, we should be maybe, you know, this is my shout out to the meat industry, to APHA, that we need to start keeping up with the science and looking at PCR testing stuff going into our abattoirs and not just reliant on old TB testing that's literally decades old now. That, you know, just as with looking at BSE, you know, testing all of that material that is going to food waste at the moment because of not being able to find it, but there are PCR tests out there for it now. You know, we could be testing, you know, groups of animals going in and being able to say, yeah, that's clear for use, that's not.
Yeah, and saving a lot of food that would otherwise go to waste, which is tragic in this day and age. Did you know that around the world, 40%— I've probably told you and everybody this before, but I'm just going to say for people who are new to the show— 40% of the food, that will be livestock food and vegetables and cereals and goodness knows what. Yeah, everything comes from a farm. 40% of it is wasted around the globe. Obviously, in developing countries, a lot less because food is less plentiful and less cheap. But in the UK, and in the States and Australia and places like that, if you add them all together, 40% of food coming off farms, it goes in the drain. Which is just such a crime.
And I think that's, you know, or plowed back into the field, or, you know, if you watch Clarkson's Farm, doesn't even reach the trailer because he misses the trailer so often.
Yes.
But anyway, that's another matter. I think from, yeah, it's tragic, that level of waste. And it's not just waste at that level. You've then got the added level of waste when it comes to trimming at the abattoir and, you know, what's then, you know, gets effectively thrown before it even can go into use just because it looks ugly, you know, people don't want to eat it.
That's tragic.
I want to just turn it into soup or something, you know.
Yeah, so it is tragic, right? We hark on. I honestly just wanted to get out there. Oh my word, there's a man in a caravan. Um, just—
what?
He's appearing now.
Oh my goodness.
Brady, naughty, naughty.
What day is it?
Oh God, I'm so sorry. I was so surprised. I was so surprised. I just— I'm not thinking. I just— oh my God, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry, everybody out there as well listening. That was rude, and I'm so sorry. Uh, but I'm clear now.
We quite enjoyed the piece, actually.
Yeah, yeah, I'll say this. Yeah, so, uh, sorry, continue as, as you were.
And, uh, excellent. Okay, we've got a question here from Anna Knight, and, uh, she's saying, hello gentlemen, any suggestions for my overweight 14-year-old dog who has barely eaten or moved for 2 days?
Whoa.
Uh, okay, so I'm going to jump into that. First of all, I'd say you need to get that dog checked fairly pronto, and I would get them to the vets like now, depending on where you are in the world. Yeah, imagine if you hadn't eaten or moved for 2 days. I think that's a pretty serious sign. I think let's get that guy checked and just see what's happening. Maybe, you know, just full examination and maybe a general profile blood just to make sure that our liver and kidney and, you know, anemia and infection side of things are in good shape. So that might be quite an easy one. I'd say let's get checks.
And yeah, and don't forget there's all of the things that any dog can suffer from at 14 that could be a problem. Being overweight is not necessarily the, the sum cause of that illness. So I think any dog that's barely moving and off its food really should be checked. At that point. I think, of course, you know, accentuating of things like pain and arthritis because of then having to carry extra weight might be a consideration. But absolutely, please, as Nick said, at least get a checkup to have a feel over and an opinion of what's going on.
Very cool. Caroline Fenton is joining us here now from Middleton, Idaho. Which is fabulous. Yeah, really great. I love it, having all these— all our brothers and sisters in the USA coming to join us. It's fabulous, makes me very excited. Okay, do you want another question? I've got a question here. So Sue says, I'm fostering a sighthound. She was 8 months old when she came to us back in April, April of this year, '24. Up until she came to us, she lived on the streets in the UK and was fed a mixture of street leftovers and kibble. She's now on fed on raw. Well done, Sue. Will there be any long-term damage that a raw diet cannot fix? We are considering adoption. Okay, who wants to go first with that one?
Do you remember, um, when, um, what was the lady's name? Uh, the Natural Breeder Exchange lady, and she talked about the epigenetic effects of poor diet when mothers were passing it to, uh, to daughters, and the daughters already had the eggs inside. And so it was like 3 generations of this epigenetic effect. But as regards like an instantaneous person having a bad diet and shifting to a good diet, I'm not quite sure like what residual issues would be left that a fresh raw diet, good lifestyle wouldn't rectify pretty quickly. I mean, I'm not quite sure what that would be. I know, like, you know, when people change from being an obese shape to one of regular shape, they add massive amounts of years to their life, but I think that's kind of understandable. But I'm not sure if they live a slightly shorter life as a result of the 20 years of obesity. So I'm not sure. That's an interesting question. So nothing pops up for me. I don't know. I would assume that they would get back to good health, you know, organs regenerate, a lot of the organs, your liver is pretty robust and your kidneys are very robust, you know, so I'd be very happy that once they're on the right path and the teeth are in good condition and all that kind of stuff, then you'd be looking pretty good. What do you think, Brent? Is there any lasting effects of a bad lifestyle of a year?
He says to an old bloke who's had a bad lifestyle in his life. I remember being a student once.
Yeah, there you go.
You know, the number of students that have lived on heavy levels of ale and super noodles.
Pot noodles, you know? Yeah.
I never ate a pot noodle for the entire 6 years I was there.
I'm not surprised, yeah.
That's, I think, just because of your mother.
Yeah, of course. Yeah, they didn't serve pot noodles in the bar. That's why. Toasties.
So I would say, look, there is a lot that you can reverse. I think there's always a risk, you know, and we're back to that risk thing. But, you know, let's not overegg it. I think the sooner you can change something, never let the fear that it won't change something prevent you from making that change.
Okay.
You know, it's— bless, there's people out there that have done something for 30 years of their life, such as smoking a cigarette. Would the doctor ever say, don't ever attempt to stop smoking that cigarette?
Of course they wouldn't.
They would say you are better off not smoking. At any stage of your life. And I think they're, you know, changing to a better diet, using some supplements to overcome some of those things. I would definitely say liver has that capability to regenerate. That's absolutely there. Kidneys less so, you know, so that's the downside. So one caveat is that, you know, if you've fed your dog a load of mince pies in the early years of its life, or you've kept giving them grapes for, you know, the first 5 years of their life, and then you expect that their kidneys are going to be A1 when they get to 16. I think, you know, there's problems in some of those toxicities to some of those organs that cannot regenerate. Yes, of course, we can tweak fibrosis and things like that within the kidneys, but total regeneration of dead nephrons is not a possibility. Some of the toxicity effects, you know, you get a lesion in the brain from, you know, some problem, whether that be physical illness, whatever. Yeah, some of those are hard to overcome, to rewire the brain and get it to work and not to have seizures at some point. I get that. But look, generally in the scheme of things, if your dog's just been overweight, it's been abused with kibble, you, you know, changing to a good raw food diet should reverse the majority of that and, and get you back on the right tracks.
Yeah, I think, I think if, I think if, um, a poisonous diet can flick on the genes— they say, you know, the genes load the gun but environment fires, you know, pulls the trigger. I think if you eat a poor diet and you're flicking on those genes like light switches for developing cancer, which, you know, study after study shows is linked to ultra-processed food and obesity. Oh, then surely the case would be that if you jump back to real food, then your body gets to switching those little switches off. That'd be my very basic understanding of epigenetics, and on that I know very little more. I found this though on smoking. Listen to this, guys. How, how many years does a lifetime of smoking take off you on average to non-smokers? How many years? Give me a figure. I completely—
it depends on the person, depends on their genes, depends on their other level of how many a day on, on How much they smoke depends on how many, how many a day, Conor.
But average, average.
But also if they're eating loads of seed oils, loads of ultra-processed food, all that, you know, all that stuff, you know. So I think that's a pretty impossible thing. I mean, it's a foolish thing to do that without a doubt. That's, you know, you might as well banging your head against the wall.
However, but Alice says 10.
Alice says 10.
Yeah, but you can't say that because if you're eating absolutely perfectly, That's an opinion, Nick.
She's allowed to say it.
She totally is. She is. But it's— I'm just saying the impossibility of being able to answer that.
Of course. Yeah, of course.
From a kind of rational perspective.
Yeah, of course. Like, I mean, if you're exercising and smoking, I think you're in much better shape than not exercising and smoking. If you're eating healthy and smoking, you're in better shape than not eating healthy if you're overweight. So I get what you mean. But taking an average, and this is from the CDC, and we can all trust the CDC.
They are very, very reliable. Safe and effective.
Yeah, so listen to this. Life expectancy for smokers is on average 10 years shorter than for non-smokers. I was very surprised about that. I thought it would have been a lot more than that. But here's the thing in relation to this question. Quitting smoking before the age of—
say again, say again.
Oh my God, Conor, am I still here? Am I still okay?
Yeah, you are now.
Try again. Quitting smoking before the age of 40 reduces the risk of dying from smoking-related disease by 90%. So to Bren's point, you would expect a lot of reversal. You can't expect a complete whitewash of issues, but 90% from smoking for the first 25 years of your life, that's, that's, uh, very heartening because, you know, as much as I despise kibble, smoking is like up the top for like ingesting poison at every moment. So, um, that should give you some solace. I can understand where she's coming from. Is this dog— are you going to take this dog in? Is she going to die, you know, cancer and that kind of I can understand that you would be worried about that, but I would be very hopeful.
And it's not just life expectancy I'd be looking at. I'd be looking at, you know, what you're going to die of, you know, some of the horrible diseases that are associated with smoking versus, you know, dying of other, you know, unrelated diseases that are out there. It comes down to that, but we're getting very morbid.
Yeah, we are, but, and okay, so that sounds Yeah, great. So my, my thoughts, Sue, would be just very simple because I'm a simple kind of guy. I would say do your best. If the poos are looking good, the dog is looking good, the coat's looking good, the, the gut is functioning really, really well, the teeth are pretty clean, and energy levels are good, then you're probably in the right place. As long as you're doing the variety, you've got some prebiotics going in there, you've got the nuts and nuts, herbs, and seeds, the omega-3s, you the basics, then the longer you— the more distance you can go from the horrible initial diet to where you are now, the more the biome is going to just tick, tick, tick into a much better place. I'd say that, you know, so if things are looking good, I think you're probably in pretty good shape. You could always— the beauty of nutrition is that you can always learn more. You can always look at things from a different perspective and So keep learning, keep watching Raw Pet Medics, and, you know, do your best all the way along. I think that's great, and I would, you know, adopt. They're brilliant. We've got sighthounds, so I'm a bit biased.
I'm just going to come in and just say sorry to Helen. Helen, you're absolutely right, it was you, not Rachel. I had obviously a fantasy of Rachel working on stand with me at the RFVS stand at the weekend. It was not, it was Helen. Thank you very much for correcting me, guys, and thank you to Helen there. So look, we've got a little quick one on Facebook. Liz Gordon, thank you for your question. My dog licks her feet and hip but doesn't chew. It's definitely not ticks or fleas, she says. I think it's tummy upset. Have you got any other ideas?
Oh, I would say it could be that they're itchy but not very itchy, and a lick will suffice. Yeah, you know, if you've got a small itch, you just go and you're done. If your head is on fire with itch, you're gonna go like this. Okay, so there is a degree of how much you attend to any given thing. So she might have slightly itchy feet, and then you're talking about, is it pollen, is it indoor allergens, house dust, house dust mite, and what have you? Or if she's licking her, her rump as well, her hips as well, then you think, is it food? Maybe she's got slightly itchy bum, slightly itchy feet, and so I'd be doing some food trials. Yeah, take her off wheat. Beef and chicken would be the very basics, but if you can get in some duck for a couple of weeks, some some venison for a couple of weeks, some rabbit for a couple of weeks, a bit of pork for a couple of weeks, whatever it might be. That's a cost-free potential therapeutic and potential diagnostic. Okay, there aren't many diagnostic tests that you can do in veterinary medicine that don't cost you anything because you've got to feed the dog something. All you're doing is just saying, right, we're going to narrow that food profile, the protein profile, down to one protein. So, yeah, we're just speculating here because we haven't seen the dog and we don't really know. Any other thoughts, gents?
Well, I've got to come to Conor on this because he's probably just itching to say something.
You know I'm going to say something about yeast, but without the itchiness, it's interesting because that's a topical getting at yourself at the toes at the belly, you know, usually comes with a bit of itch with yeast. So I'm surprised without the itch, it's interesting. Do you know what's interesting? There's a symptom in dogs where they run around and people call, you know, a dog eating, or a person, an animal eating something that they shouldn't be eating, and I think that's probably the wrong thing to be saying. We don't know why the animal is eating it. Look, anyway, there's stories of dogs going around with terrible GI upset and licking the carpet, the fibers off the carpet, and constantly licking clothes and that kind of thing, trying to get fibers. But if you let that dog off the lead somewhere, she'd be out eating bits and pieces. So I'm not quite sure. There's a thing in dogs called a lick granuloma where they get clearly a sore on them and they lick it and lick it and lick it and lick it, and there's a behavioral contingent to that. What is, you know, a physical issue that started off as the lichen granuloma, and then they start at it and at it and at it. But that would show as a sore. So I'm left thinking, is it maybe yeast? If you're on a good diet and the dog is itchy, is there anything else on that skin that would tell tales, like a bit of a kind of a scaldiness to the coat, the thinning of the coat, slightly black in the skin maybe, you know, or just rough and dry skin, dandruff? You know, is there any telltale signs of yeast? Maybe the itch didn't come with it, but you can swab the dog for £30. You can go to anybody for a skin swab yeast dermatitis kit, in fact, in those 3 words, £30, you can swab the dog to see if it's yeast. But oh, I don't even know if that's it really. Brian, what do you think?
I definitely think, Luke, as Nick was saying, sometimes it can be that the level of itch, and it still could be yeast, but they're just licking. That dog does not need to chew in order to satiate that contact, to overcome the itchiness that's there. I think from things to look out for, displacement behavior. So is there, you know, like a child sucking their thumb, that actually they use this as a behavior to take their mind off a stress, you know, from that side of things. But also pain, you know, sometimes dogs will lick over joints, they'll get lick granulomas, things like that, where they have it's like you're rubbing yourself when you've got arthritis or anything like that causing discomfort, that that eases the discomfort and that contact. So the licking constantly can do that. So there may be some degree of arthritis in the related feet or indeed even in the hip that's being looked at rather than necessarily being an allergy, which I still believe now the more I talk to people is just being overdiagnosed or overproposed as a source of their itch. It's maybe one of the easier things to look at, but actually compared to intolerances and hypersensitivities and then, you know, other environmental things, I think dietary allergy in the grand scheme of things is, you know, that okay, it's controllable, but it is only that really small part of the whole picture.
Yeah, like a true allergy, you don't know anybody with a true allergy, very rare, you know, shrimp allergy, like, you know, somebody's opened a pack of peanuts on top of the plane, the guy at the back is running for the toilet, that's a true allergy, you know, genetic mishap, but there's a lot of food intolerances and the word allergy is thrown into that bucket, but there's far more intolerance as a result of mechanical issues in the gut, IBS, IBD, this chronic mechanical breakdown in the gut lining, so yeah, food intolerance, intolerances could easily be on, and they pop up for all sorts of reasons. And the good news about food intolerances is that you can put them back in the box. It was so often they pop up for a reason and you fix the issue, and then a lot of them can go away. That's not the case with allergies. Once you get an allergy, you're born with it for the most part, although you can vaccinate kids with seed oil and nut allergies. But yeah, so food intolerances is one to look out for, for sure. That's actually going to lead us on to the next question.
Nick, you're about Yeah, just to round off there, yes, with regards to the pain thing, it's, you know, you've got the dog who's licking feet and hip and you're thinking, well, how do I know? The answer is get in touch with a very good chiropractor or osteopath and for them to do some diagnostics because they can feel things that you, you know, mere mortals cannot. But at the same time, they can do some some therapeutics as well, and they can give you kind of an outside view. It's almost like getting a human MRI to examine the skeletal system. And so they are worth their weight in gold if there's ever a question— have we got pain, have we not got pain? I love using good chiropractors or osteopaths. They're worth, worth their weight in gold.
What about that Gemma's idea from Dynamic Dog regarding pain, where she said, why don't you put pop in some pain relief. Why don't you talk to a vet if you suspected the pain?
Yeah, but then you've got to go down the route of a possibly a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory where you could—
you can't say this because you're a vet, you two vets are under the kibosh, but I can say, well, paracetamol can be used and you can induce excellent pain relief. In fact, it's just as effective as Metacam for joint issues in dogs. I'm going to start sharing those studies another time. This isn't the place for it because I'll get in trouble. But yeah, can I go on to this very next question, which is burning, because because it's 19:40 and I want to ask because I can't remember where we are with this. Someone sent this in to me, where are we with food intolerance tests via BioResonance? There's a million of them out there, you'll know them by the fact that they cost about maybe 50 to 100 quid, they test over 300 proteins which the bloods, they don't get anywhere near that and when you scroll down to the bottom of this brand that she sent me, they highlight— listen to these words— they don't say bioresonance, which is a little bit disingenuous. They say this is not traditional dog allergy testing done in a medical laboratory. It is a non-invasive analysis. That's how you know that can detect factors contributing to dog allergy symptoms. It is not meant to be a substitute for traditional dog allergy testing, which is legally used. And what— where are we with the bioresonance detection of food sensitivities in dogs?
I'm not really that sold on the idea. Didn't you do— send off some hair sample or something from the same dog to two different labs?
I did.
Or maybe to the same lab, calling it the same lab.
I said it was two different names, two white doodles, and it was the same doodle. Completely different results. But Brett had said something about that beforehand where the way, you know, I can be involved in that mistake, and I just didn't understand, and I just thought, oh, poo poo.
And the keys are, look, there are so many practitioners, let's call them, out there that without any degree of control or training, you know, they, if they can buy a machine, they will do it. And some downsides are that people will profess to have a machine that don't have any sort of machine other than they just create a report when they receive stuff through the post, you know, uh, and I think that's the problem for those poor people that have done loads of training and loads of work and have a great machine that does all of the things, are then undermined by people that are working out of a room in a terrace house in the middle of nowhere with no training whatsoever. And it's so easy for them to pull the wool over people's eyes. And that's the downside. Um, and so I say, look, always go by recommendation. You know, hair testing is a thing, you can do hair testing. Bioresonance is a thing, I've seen it really, really well.
Yeah.
Um, uh, you know, but it's just a case of then it's the human factor. And what gets me is that there's many places that over-interpret the results that come out of these machines, if you look at how they work and, you know, the reports that they can generate, the number of times that they will, you know, if you feed them on a new diet, let's say venison, you never had venison before in their life, you suddenly start feeding venison and then you put them through a bioresonance test. Strangely, venison might come up on that bioresonance. The downside is if you're not trained to understand or have taken any history, then what might come up is that person thinks, oh, venison's come up, I'm going to say that they've got an intolerance to it. Well, they've had symptoms prior to the venison for, you know, years, and it's just picking up the fact that you're now feeding that dog venison. It doesn't mean that there's a problem with it. So it's about interpretation. That is understanding that if somebody goes through and over-interprets, you know, often they'll pick out 15 minerals that's— and God knows where they get all 15 from, but they come out with 15 minerals that they think need to be rebalanced with a, strangely enough, a product that they sell right off the shelf to you from the very same people doing the test. And I always question that when that comes in, that, you know, just please be careful, act on recommendation. You almost need that TripAdvisor equivalent for, you know, those people that are doing those tests. And, you know, some good case reports that where they say, yeah, this is absolutely fashionably, you know, a result for me. Most good bioresonance practitioners don't actually need you to buy a supplement. What they'll do is they'll say, okay, do you want me to generate a remedy from the machine, send you out the remedy, and pretty much you should see within 1 to 2 weeks resolution of those symptoms if they've got the bioresonance right and you're feeding a basically good diet.
Yeah.
Okay. Um, so it's always interesting when I've seen that And I've even tried it on one of my dog's posts. Sorry, my mother's dog post her giving a tick treatment, bless her, when she was alive years and years ago that had just come out. The vet close to her had given her a tick treatment. She thought this was great. Dog started itching like crazy, going nuts, everything else. And it just happened. I just had somebody working with me who was doing bioresonance and I got a sample and he ran it through the machine, generated a remedy, gave it back, massive resolution just by giving that remedy.
So, you know, those are the— yeah, I had it on me to detect food sensitivities on me and it nailed it. I filled out a page. I told you this a couple of nights ago there in England, and I filled out the page of things I like and things I don't like. And when we were doing the test, it was like they were just nailing it. Oh, you don't, you can't eat mussels, you really can't eat squid. And I was like, yeah, that's exactly spot on, but I can eat prawns and crab claws and all that kind of stuff. It just picked it out every single time. You can't be eating the gluten and that's why you're snoring and that kind of stuff. So it really worked for me when I was there holding the actual electrodes. So I'm a massive believer and I've seen the studies that are backing it up, but this idea of sending some hair off and getting food sensitivity test. I think at best a guide if it's done properly. Maybe that's kind of what we always seem to say about the food allergy tests, at best a guide. Sometimes can be a little bit misleading and it can, but yeah, who knows. I suppose it depends on who's doing it, doesn't it, and you don't know when you buy these cheap tests. There's great questions come up at the bottom there, Nick, unless you've got one waiting to go which we can do over on Patreon.
Yeah, well Alice Marina has been waiting, she did, she gave me 3 bits bits. So I'm going to say, Alice, come over to us on Patreon and we'll, we'll do it on Patreon. It won't come out for probably about an hour or so once we've got all the, uh, the, the, the electronics organized and what have you. But I promise that I will ask the guys your question.
Yeah, so Alice, we can certainly see you there over on Patreon. And I think there's probably then time for one more after that with—
yeah, let's do a couple. We'll do a couple over there.
Paul's got one to ask too.
Yes, just to Julie's answer there, Nick looks like he's frozen. Is that my problem or is that Nick's problem? That's your problem.
Oh no, I'm here, I'm here.
Okay, but to Julie's answer, the dog's 13, going in for dental cleaning in a few days. I would just highlight the top 2 low-hanging fruit there, you know, unless the dog is in pain or some sort of issue where But when I see the word cleaning, I always think, are you feeding raw meaty bones? And there might be a reason why you can't. And then if not, would you use a product like Candidance, which will take the tartar off the dog's teeth? But if there's a veterinary need, you know, any sort of pain or that kind of stuff, I would say yes, of course you're going to need a vet. But if you're worried about the anesthetic, as you seem to be, well, you know, I would go raw meaty bones, Candidance. And I just spoke to a lady outside of Joe's Ingenious Probiotics. And this lady came up to me and the dog who had CUPS, which is this savage, the, you know, like almost like terrible gingivitis, bleeding of the gums where the gums meet the teeth and sores in the gums. And the dog, the vet had said, look, these teeth need to come out. The dog's got CUPS. And she found Joe, got Joe's dental product. It's a probiotic. On the gums, so completely changed that negative kind of nasty infectiony color there. And in 3 days was able to handle the dog, and then 2 weeks later the dog's teeth were back to normal. Now she has to constantly hit the dog with the probiotics every day, but has completely saved the dog. So I just thought there is other ideas out there, and that was a particularly nasty case. So, you know, just to consider that, Julie, that just in case raw meaty bones, if you're worried about it, speak to a canine nutritionist, they'll guide you through it. There's a million articles, a million videos if you're worried about the meaty bone idea. But that takes off 2 feedings of raw meaty bones, takes off more than 80% of the tartar off beagles in a cage.
So like, if somebody wants to know what Cups looks like, it can look like—
Bloody hell, look at that! Oh, that is awful, man. Holy God. For the people listening on podcast, bloody gums and some—
So some people think that it's just down to the plaque that's on the teeth there, but actually, no, this is an even where there aren't teeth and there's stuff, this is basically an immune reaction almost to the plaque bacteria and stuff.
It's just hyperactivity.
Yeah, pretty good.
Yeah, but because it resolved with the probiotics in that case that you just mentioned, Conor, it would say QED, it is possibly a dysbiosis issue which is provoking the immune So definitely talk to Joe Flanagan at Ingenious Probiotics. He doesn't sponsor us, he's very, very good to us and what have you, but there's no sponsorship there. We just like his products very much.
Yeah, there's good studies behind the bacteria, one of the many bacteria that are in the product. One is Lactobacillus reuteri, and you'll see the studies of that for gingival disease, like proper, proper gingival infections and boom, very, very effective. So I just thought—
and the difference is you take biopsies of this, the cell infiltrates that are beneath that causing that disruption in the mucosa are different to just being an infection. It's not just a granulation because of the bacterial infection. You've got immune-mediated disease going on. That's the difference.
Yeah.
Okay guys, let's jump over.
Yes.
And we'll do Alice's question, and then we will do Connor's question.
Yeah, we'll do one more. Yeah, okay, great stuff. Look, wonderful, we've actually managed to go live on Facebook again. Uh, great, thank you for catching us. For you Facebook listeners, um, for patreon.com/rawprepmedics, you can join us over on, uh, our format over there. More stuff coming soon. Please remember, you can also catch us on just about every format of podcasts that you can imagine, from Spotify to Amazon to, you know, give me another one, Nick. You know, who do you listen to?
I use Apple Podcasts.
Apple Podcasts, we're on there too.
But basically, if it begins with a P and ends with an S and has Oddcasts in the middle of it, then we are on that platform. Okay.
Thanks to Pete. That's what I'll say. Yeah. Thank you, Pete.
He does all the hard work there.
Yeah.
Good on. Good man. Good man.
Great stuff. Wonderful. See you all next week. So next week is the 3rd of September, isn't it?
Is that right?
Yes, it is the 3rd of September. We have the wonderful, in fact, let me just check. It is. Yes. No, she is this week. She had, so Rita Hogan is joining us. I got I got the shock of my life when she released on her social media that she had jury duty, wasn't necessarily going to be available. And I was hoping it's just so typical, and then realized it's a week before ours and she's only supposed to be, uh, 7 days in, in jury duty. So there we go. Hopefully the cases that she gets to hit isn't too long. So it is Rita Hogan next week, veterinary herbalist.
Extraordinary. And so it's going to be fascinating.
Yeah, perfect. Okay, sounds good.
See you all, guys. See you next week.
Great, guys.
See ya.
