CoEnzyme Q10

7 o'clock and we're live.

We here, here we are again, chaps.

Yes, ready to go.

We three meet again. Yes, what's the quote? It's from Macbeth, isn't it? When the witches get together at the beginning, there's, uh, we three meet again, bubble bubble, toil and trouble.

Excuse me while I just pull my eyeball out.

Yeah, yeah, no, that's exactly right. Yeah, eye of notes and wing of, wing of bats.

And that's where that came from, that came from Macbeth.

Yeah, I think so.

I think so. I've never done that. That was the— that's one I'm not familiar with. Everyone always talks about it. It's a fabulous story. I haven't even seen it on stage.

If anybody can dig that out, that would be really good. I can't see the Facebook, uh, um, contributions, so if anyone can dig that, that out, that would be really nice.

Toil and Trouble, Fires Burn and Cauldrons Bubble. That's, uh, that's an old school one.

Let's see what they say, shall we?

Yvette is here from Dublin. Yvette, great to see you there.

You're from Dublin, Yvette? I didn't know you're from Dublin. I see Dublin's in my Yvette is in my membership. I see her there all the time and she is so, so helpful. Very, very clued-in lady. So that's cool. Didn't know you're from Dublin, Yvette. You sound very French.

And Yvette Fouché is a pretty French name.

Yeah, maybe Canadian, but very French. Yeah.

I spoke to—

I spoke to a client the other day and she was an Arab of Arabic descent living in Moscow.

Can you believe it?

Oh wow.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Um, anyway, so if you're following us on YouTube, please do smash the, uh, subscribe and the like buttons. That helps draw traffic in this, in this direction so that we can help to talk to people about nutrition and all things good. You can get us on Spotify and all, practically every, um, podcast medium. Um, thank you very much to all our Patreon people. You can find us easily on Patreon. Just go to Patreon and put in Raw Pet Medics, and we will pop out of the woodwork like witches, and, um, we will make your life better, and, and, um, we will guarantee to make you live forever. Guaranteed.

Promises. That's great.

Absolutely. It's a great seller. Did anybody see the study that— oh, actually, I was just going to ask, when you said, um, did you go— did you do a talk in Saudi Arabia there in January?

No, I was talking to, what's our, the sled guy, Mark Roberts. Yes, I was talking to him about it, but it didn't come out.

Okay, not to worry. Yeah, just as I said earlier. Did anybody see the study that came out there? High prevalence of veterinary drugs in birds' nests just came out a few days ago. Did you see that?

No, I didn't, but it surprises me not at all.

Insecticides?

Did I link to the study? I'd like to say a study conducted by a Vanderen, a Belgian association for the conservation of birds, identified the presence of 36 pesticides including fungicides, herbicides, insecticides, and biocides, and even DDT in 95 nests in Belgium. Where did the DDT come from? Although the latter has been banned since 1974, it was found in 89 of the 95 nests analyzed. That just shows how pervasive these things are, but still out there.

Yes, you know where the biggest repository of DDT on the planet Italy. Anybody? No, no, Northern Italy. Oh, Bren?

No.

Any thoughts?

There'll be probably some Bayer or something like that.

In human abdominal fat.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, we're up there with glyphosate.

That's where it all is.

Yeah, it did get rid of all the mosquitoes in, uh, in Northern Italy. Wasn't that its claim to fame? It probably killed everything else at the same time. Is that not—

my wife would claim that that's not happened.

Okay, I don't think it would do well because How persistent is it? DDT, it is pretty persistent.

That's it, that's 50 years ago, last year.

But not 50 years worth.

Yeah, so there you go, that was, so it was all over the news kind of saying, hey, we've got to stop, we've got to reduce these flea treatments. And I was kind of saying, yeah, like we've been highlighting the health issues with that and the needlessness of it all. And the thing that's going to reduce those flea treatments is going to be pressure from environmentalists because it's ruining rivers and birds' nests and that kind of thing.

Do you know what it's going to be?

What's it going to be?

Pressure from you guys out there, the general public, walking into your veterinary surgery and going, I do not want to treat my animal with a pesticide unless I absolutely have to.

Perfect. Yes, great.

That is what's happening. You're right, that is what's happening. That's what— that's where the pressure is coming from. Less and less people want those products.

Only use them if it's—

if they're—

if you've got absolutely no choice. There are some fantastic essential oil products, mentioning no names, DermaDog Insect Defense Spray.

Yeah, it's too cheap, Nick. It's too cheap. Nick's DermaDog Insect Defense Spray is only 10 bucks, and it's really, really, really good. It's the best stuff in a tiny little bottle for €10, for £10. It's nothing. $10. I'm not sure if you ship that across borders, Nick, do you?

Yeah, who knows? We've already done that, Nick.

Is it my internet that has Nick glitchy or is it Nick's internet that has Nick glitchy?

I think it's Nick's internet that is glitchy because he's just the way he is.

No, blame it on Elon. It's nothing to do with me.

Are you using, are you using, what you call it?

Starlink.

Yeah. Cool.

It's a game changer.

It's really good.

Oh yeah, it's not bad.

He's using Starlings. That's the problem. You've got the wrong website. Yeah.

Starlings. Yes.

Tweet tweet. Not Starlink.

Yeah.

I didn't know that.

Anything else exciting happening looking back over the last week? Nothing else.

I feel liberated because I handed in this morning a lecture that I found really difficult to write over the last 2 weeks.

Now it's gone.

So that's really good. And now I've got another one. I've got another one. I've got a— so I'm gonna, I'm gonna have to be, uh, to be finished at 7:45, guys, I'm afraid. And then I'm gonna have to go at 8 after Patreon, uh, a bit on the side.

I've got to get on a train.

There you go.

Yeah, what are you up to?

Speaking to, um, press and influencers about raw food. I'm gonna be touted out, so it's gonna be great. I'm really—

wow.

Tell it, Bren, you can't let you just— yeah, tease us with that.

And then, uh, the post afterwards, we'll see how good it goes, but I'm really looking forward to it.

Awesome. So you're being pimped, you're pimping yourself out.

I'm being pimped.

You're being pimped at last. Awesome. Dream achieved.

I've got to afford something.

Yeah, people are paying for it in the home somehow. It's true, it's true. We're giving it out for free all the time, never, never being paid. Oh, it's definitely the way to go. So we are going to be talking about Coenzyme Q10 tonight. So, um, that is a subject I've been dying to talk about for weeks and weeks and weeks, but I thought maybe I'd just let you guys introduce us, and, um, then I'll try and add in some any interesting things that I've suddenly found over the last few hours. Does anybody want to start us off with comments on Q10?

Uh, so first of all, and I don't know exactly the answer to this one, what's the difference between CoQ10, ubiquinol, and ubiquinone? Can anybody give us a definitive answer?

There is the, is the stuff you make yourself, so you make, you coenzyme Q10 yourself.

You make Q10?

Yes, which is why you don't see it in the AFGO FEDIAF profiles. It doesn't have to be in pet food because you can make your own as long as you're healthy and your liver is in good condition and you're not on quite a plethora of drugs that could interfere with the production of it.

Yeah, so what organs are you going to find it in? Where are you going to find it?

Oh, I'll tell you about that in a minute. Oh yeah, so ubiquinol is the stuff you make yourself. It's the ready-to-go version coursing through your blood and in all the meats that we're we're going to talk about in a second. Ubiquinone is the longer shelf life synthetic version that they make in the lab. And that is the one that all the studies are used on because ubiquinol is kind of hard to handle. It doesn't like being outside. It's an antioxidant. So antioxidants are just dying to react with oxygen and that's why you take them. That's the beneficial bit of them. But when they're out and about exposed to air in a capsule and all that kind of stuff, they just oxidize very easily and then they're—

It sort of leads into the next bit, doesn't it really? Before we talk about where it's rich and how you can get it, Hang on, hang on, we haven't done the third one.

So CoQ10, what's the difference between ubiquinol, ubiquinone, and CoQ10? Just for complete clarity.

Is that nothing? Is Co—

oh, I think it's the same thing. I think ubiquinol and coenzyme Q10 are the same thing.

So should we talk about what a coenzyme is first?

Yes, please.

I actually don't know. Well, no, let's get the definitions right first, and then we can, then we can go and find out that bit because The point is that a coenzyme is what plugs onto the enzyme.

So it's a molecule that plugs onto that. So that could be a mineral like magnesium or something like that in some cases. In this case for the superoxidase, so basically how that works with transport of electrons and stuff like that, coenzyme is that plug-on to that enzyme. And I think The interesting thing is ubiquinol and ubiquinone both will apparently plug on to that enzyme. Yeah, one seems to work better than the other. One might even need a bit of conversion to work in, but it's ultimately coenzyme Q10 is the fact that anything that plugs into that area of that enzyme, as I understand it.

Okay, okay, so it's the Q10 bit as well, relates to ubiquinone or ubiquinol. Depending on—

okay, so, so the analogy, guys, would be, um, Brendan and Conor are coenzymes to the functioning of the Raw Pap Medics, where I am the main enzyme that makes the whole thing actually work. You see, you see the— that's two, two coenzymes. But can you see the—

yeah, but which is the all and which is the own?

You can see—

yeah, yeah, one is synthetic, you know, and one is, one is fairly natural.

Yeah, but but the protagonist is the main enzyme.

Interesting, interesting. Nicely, nice, well done for thrusting yourself forward there. That was— I do appreciate that. So that explains the two different versions. So one version is very stable, shelf-stable, and you can make supplements out of it. So all the studies, most of the studies are done with ubiquinone. And ubiquinol, if you were to stick your nose in the air, might be the more natural version, doesn't need the conversion step. But they have compared those two a lot and they don't often find a massive difference between them. A couple of times, two studies have found that ubiquinol works better in whatever measures they were doing, but for the most part, when they compared the two of them in mice and humans, there wasn't a large difference. But they're small sample sizes, so I don't think you would have found— the fact that they found any differences a couple of times was interesting, but a lot more often than not they don't.

So I wondered whether that was why it was really interesting on looking for papers where Effectively, patients were found deficient in coenzyme Q10, so they know that they were deficient in that. Even when they supplemented them, the papers that were particularly larger populations, they were actually using ubiquinone, and they didn't see a great difference in that enzyme activity. So it was I wondered whether it was because of that artificial one just being absorbed and getting in.

One of the differences was a quicker absorption, as you'd imagine. There's no conversion. So if you were, let's say, if you're harboring a SIBO, one of the— you need lots of all this coenzyme bit is interesting because it needs lots of things to build coenzyme Q10 inside the body. You need lots of bits and pieces. And you'd mentioned one of the magnesium, you need B6, B12 is really important. So if you've got a terrible SIBO and you don't have any B12, you're not going to be manufacturing your, your coenzyme Q10 too easily. So there's a lot of things that will slow down your ability to manufacture it. So if you're given a poor version of it, I bet you a better version like ubiquinol, which is ready to go, bypasses a lot of that process. And I bet you that's why in some studies it's shown ubiquinol is more rapidly absorbed.

I would suggest that if you— if in a study you're going to be studying very fresh ubiquinol, the natural stuff, with very fresh ubiquinone— yeah, probably, yeah, because it's going to be supplied by the laboratory, or going to be, you know, in, in, you know, next to each other or whatever it might be. Whereas in the real world, you might be taking, yes, you know, slightly out-of-date ubiquinone, which is doing you no good whatsoever.

Yeah.

Whereas the stuff that you're actually synthesizing within your body, that's going to be keeping you in really great shape.

Yeah, that's probably true, isn't it? Everyone's got a cupboard full of supplements. It's like gone-off spices and stuff in the cupboard. You use them, but they don't taste of anything, you know, because a couple of months is all they last. Or there's no— we have that cupboard. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Give it to I get the good stuff to myself. But so what's next?

Okay, so, Bren, you were going to say about sourcing or I've got a lovely list of sources.

So if you're looking for a more natural source, because that's what generally people want to know, it's generally where are you going to find it? Okay. But and that sort of relates then to where people have then thought that it might be useful. So, you know, come on, Conor, you're a big one for knowing where these things are residing. So we go through, you've got to name one thing, one area, and then the next person has to name another area, and we'll carry on until we run out.

Yeah, okay, let's do that. This was something I had prepared, so this is fantastic. I'm going to look knowledgeable.

I shouldn't be saying these, these are the things I'm thinking.

I shouldn't have said that. So it's coenzyme Q10 is manufactured in the mitochondria. So you want meats that have a lot of mitochondria. So the very first thing I'm going to go for is the heart, stuffed full of mitochondria, energy production, and that is very high in coenzyme Q10. That's where that would be my number one. I imagine it's one of the top organs.

Is that beef heart or pork? Pork heart, Conor?

I'm going to say beef. Beef, of course.

Beef heart is 113 milligrams per 100 grams of beef heart. And yeah, pork heart is only— this is really interesting— 37 milligrams per 100. So I was really surprised.

Chicken, an indoor pig, or is that an outdoor?

Well, I can't really give you that level. This is, this is the—

yeah, activity would drive the production of it because you want— okay, yeah, that I imagine.

More chicken heart, get this, Guess, guess what chicken heart is?

236.

It is 9.2 milligrams. So that means it's got 1/10 of the CoQ10 of beef heart. So I think beef heart really is the bee's knees.

So is lamb heart very close to beef heart then?

Lamb heart, I haven't got a theory.

I have a theory.

That's interesting.

No, but lamb itself, lamb meat unspecified, 3.5 milligrams. Obviously it depends on timing. Year and health and age of the lamb.

Oh, that's lower than I thought. What other meats? What other organs?

But that's not heart meat, that's just general meat.

It's, it's, um, what about liver, liver and kidney and that kind of stuff?

Are you—

Oh my God, he's just lost the plot. We're supposed to be doing a game here. You said heart.

Oh, sorry, sorry.

Oh yeah, you said heart and we ruined—

Yeah, every time, you know, you play him at Monopoly, he just puts— pulls all the cards out and tries to say which one he wants at the same time.

Buy everything. And then when he's not— not winning, he will accidentally knock the board on the floor.

I'm known to do that. Oh, I hate Monopoly. It's too much pressure.

I find it when you get into the 6th hour, it gets— can get a bit trying.

Yeah, totally. Yeah, that's usually if the drink is related. Uh, Bren, what were your ideas?

So, well, I was going to go kidney.

Kidney, right? Yeah. Okay, good.

Go on, Nick, you've got the figures.

I've got the figures. I've got beef. So beef heart is 113 per 100 grams, and I've got beef liver at just at 40 to 50 milligrams.

That's a lot still though.

I mean, it's chunky, but you know, if you want to go anywhere with this, beef heart really is what, you know, so if you've got a dog with heart disease and you want to, or a number of other things which we'll go through shortly. If you really want to keep the price, because it's very expensive stuff, if you want to keep the price down but really ramp up the Q10, you really want to go for beef heart.

Yeah, it's interesting coming back to organotherapy, which is what Bren was just saying there. It's just like, if you were to name the most likely things, if you were to ask anybody what coenzyme Q10, where would you use it, heart has been mentioned a lot.

Heart disease.

It's like organotherapy. It's just like you know, liver to feed liver, kidney to feed pancreas when your pancreas is sick. That clearly works. And, and heart for, for heart conditions, because I'm sure there's a number of other things in heart like taurine, very high in the hearts and heart conditions, a little bit of taurine. So, so yeah, so I imagine heart conditions is one of the first places.

Totally.

Isn't that interesting? You know, when we talk about things like selenium, we're talking about magnesium, we're talking about, you know, in this case, Coenzyme Q10, and we're talking about organotherapy and we're choosing, you know, people are trying to choose heart material And one of the easiest heart materials to get hold of for many is chicken hearts, okay? But actually, you know, from a butcher rather than trying to find a store that's got them in specifically. Or lamb heart. Getting beef heart, I mean, beef hearts are like huge things, you know, they're like, you know, rugby balls, small rugby balls. I actually had a client who we needed to get some heart for and Fortunately, my, one of my nurses has a beef farm that they produce and was fortunate enough to be able to say, I can get you beef hearts. And she literally walked in. So we've got a little 10-kilo dog. Hearts were bigger than the dog.

Yeah.

Amazing.

Eat that dog.

I think you can get it at Morrison's actually. You get a little tray like this of chopped heart. I believe, I believe, I believe. I could have a little look.

Certainly lamb hearts I've seen.

Oh, lamb heart.

But I've not necessarily seen beef heart, just because they're so big.

Have you ever eaten heart, either of you guys? Yvette Fouché, French follower here.

When we were at school, it was one of the things you could do, stuffed peppers or stuffed hearts.

Oh, interesting.

To take home for your parents.

Yeah.

That was in the days of being fed liver and bacon.

That's a well-worked muscle. It sounds— it feels like it looks a bit tough. I'd imagine it would take the cooking.

Oh no, I tell you what, well, because we've— Ellie did stuffed hearts and I was kind of horrified even though I'm supposed to be Mr. Organ and Mr. Nutrition and what have you, but actually they were the tenderest meat you've ever had in your life.

No way.

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, really good.

Okay, so, you know, are they going to have the nutrients you want for treating hearts? Because if they're relatively poor in chicken and pork, you know, if they're indoor reared versus going for beef or lamb or—

Well, you're on to something there because it turns out that grass-fed beef heart is far, far higher in Coenzyme Q10 than K4 reared beef heart. So there's a big difference in Coenzymes Q10 there. So that's interesting.

Morrison's do do ox heart in chunks, so they sell it in kind of 300-400 grams. So, oh yeah, 460 gram thingies. So that's really easy if you're very much older. Yes, saying that Morrison's do beef heart and other supermarkets might do it, but I don't know for a fact.

What would you use Coenzymes Q10 for, guys? Obviously heart conditions. There's a few studies out there on it being used for heart conditions, lots of studies in humans. Does anybody want to tell us a little bit about what heart conditions you would use it for, how it works there? There's studies also for dogs as well, King Charles and a few others suffering heart disease, mitral valve and whatnot. What in your history has coenzyme Q10 been effective for in the heart?

Anything, I think anything where the muscle has been stressed. Okay, so if you've got So very briefly, so mitral valve disease, your valve starts to fail, it's not pumping efficiently. So what can end up happening is that you're getting a backup of blood just not going forwards, and that can dilate the heart in its own right and stretch it and cause problems. So you're stressing the heart muscle, it's having to work harder to give the same output. Similarly, if you've got dilated cardiomyopathy, you've got a weakness of the muscle anyway. So anything that you can do to improve the health and efficiency of that muscle, help it out because it's become weaker, is going to help. So all of those, anything that's causing stress to that heart muscle, it's going to be aided by giving the nutrients that the heart needs.

Completely agree. I've got a paper here, 2015 paper, where they reduced cardiovascular mortality 10 years after supplementation with selenium and CoQ10 for 4 years. And it showed that the outcomes in heart failure and reducing mortality and improving exercise capacity is measurable. Yeah, in humans, in humans. So therefore, I think it would be similar in, in dogs.

Oh, I've got some in dogs here. An early study, this is from 2000. An earlier study in experimental tachycardia-induced chronic heart failure showed that dogs with CHF supplemented with and for 6 weeks in total had lower filling pressures in early-stage chronic heart failure and less hypertrophy in severe CHF when compared to non-treated dogs. And there's 3 of those studies. So there's 3 studies in dogs all saying for heart conditions.

Ubiquinone or ubiquinol?

I will find out. I will find out which one it is. Just says Coenzyme Q10 in the bits I've written down on my page here.

Okay.

Did I write it down and lower down? No, I didn't. In one of these studies, it was very interesting, this, this bit that I pulled from this study. One of these studies is really high quality. This is— when was this done? I'm not sure. Effects of Coenzyme Q10 supplementation on oxidative stress markers. Now we're talking inflammatory markers, lymphocytes, your white blood cells, in dogs, and a randomized controlled double-blind study. That's the good stuff. And because they're talking about coenzyme Q10, I'm more inclined to believe the results because coenzyme Q10 isn't a patentable drug, you know, so there's not going to be a mega benefit to the person that finds out a yes or no answer at the end of this. Somebody doesn't own coenzyme Q10, so I trust— I'm more— I'm far quicker to trust the results of these sorts of studies. And over 3 months, dogs received 100 milligrams— people are always wondering what the dose is— this dose of 100 milligrams of water-soluble Coenzyme Q10 twice daily. I'll find out the type later on. And results indicated a positive impact on neutrophil percentage, white blood cells, you know, your innate immunity, the first line of defense, and lymphocyte percentage which is your lymphocytes are the ones that go out and attack bodies, like your T cells and that kind of stuff, and lymphocyte concentration. So it was a real big win for the dogs that were taking this. But in that study, what was interesting was the control dogs and the dogs with the disease that they were dosing had similar levels of coenzyme Q10. So it wasn't that the dogs were deficient in coenzyme Q10, the dogs with disease, but when they supplemented them, they did better. And so that raises a big question there. It's like, you know, usually you're waiting for a deficiency and then you give the nutrient and then the dog does better. But this might be like an omega-3 thing where you might have a resting amount of omega-3, but we know that if you have inflammatory conditions or you're on steroids, you can ramp up the omega-3 to a therapeutic dose and you can drive down certain markers to benefit. So coenzyme Q10, it's not even a deficiency thing, it's that just adding it in is probably going to be a good idea. So getting this in your diet on a daily basis is a bloody good idea. Why would you cut out antioxidants? It's just like a frontline of defense. To suggest that they're something that you would add in when you get sick, it's like, no, you should be eating this stuff all the time. So you're, you're batting this off, you know, as opposed to waiting till you get sick and then you're struggling and hoping it does a bit for you. So I thought that was a factor.

Making sure, you know, prevention is far better than cure. Absolutely. And getting stuff in there. You know, we talked about this with mushrooms, you know, actually getting 5 Defenders into your system on a regular basis is far better than trying to wait till you're ill and then picking a mushroom to, to give your treatment. But also, I wonder if, you know, we talk about these studies where you take out an element here with coenzyme Q10 and you're trying to study, you know, vary one thing, because that's a very sciency thing to do, is just to vary one thing and see what the benefit is there. But as with plants, If you take out the one thing and you don't vary all of the other components that can be beneficial for the heart, how much are you limiting the improvement that you may see by feeding heart, for example? Because all of those other nutrients that are vital to heart function you're missing out on. And the same when it comes to, you know, exactly the same situation when you're talking about any of the other organs. So kidney or gut, or in a case that I want to raise, you know, where I've used coenzyme Q10 for feline gingivitis cases. Oh yeah, it's supposed to be really, really good at, you know, improving gingival health. And, um, I think it was Susan McIntyre, Susie McIntyre, yeah, raised a whole thing about the, um, the coenzyme Q10 levels in cats with gingivitis was much lower than those cats without. So it was very much a pour on and, you know, give them the supplement. And I think probably about 2004-2005, there was a sea change within the practice from just using coenzyme Q10 that you could get over the counter to literally getting the liquid ubiquinol. Downside is it's really quite ascorbic almost to taste, and so it's really quite difficult to get into your cats. It was hard to disguise, you know, you were having to mix in yogurts and stuff like that to try and get it in. But, you know, it's been used. I think it just has its challenges when you use it on its own, and I think as soon as the taste becomes a big thing for cats, yeah, sometimes it's just too much effort to try and make that change, especially when things like Luka oral care and things like that come along and you seem to get improvements.

Yeah, that's really interesting you're saying, Brent, about the, that the use of any one nutrient is limited by the entourage. I think it actually might be called the entourage effect even. Yeah, in that you can, you can have massively high CoQ10, for example, but if you haven't got the entourage of nutrients that go with it, it's not going to have the effect that you, that you think. It's, it's one of those things that when you go from kind of simple, your simple approach to nutrition to kind of advanced thinking in nutrition. You can't just think of things on their own, as you rightly said. So it's an interesting phenomenon.

Yeah, that B12 thing with a SIBO, that's what piqued my ears. It's like you need B12 for coenzyme Q10 to work, and if you've got a SIBO, your coenzyme Q10 won't be firing. And that's in— there's a number of other Yeah, exactly. Yeah, have we done B12 yet?

Yes, we have. Look back at our B12 video.

We did. I'll research it as I'm walking tonight.

And our selenium video.

It's interesting to see how coenzyme Q10— meat is the top source of coenzyme Q10, obviously heart is many, many times higher, but even all the other parts of meats are so high in coenzyme Q10. When you compare that to plant-based sources, apart from nuts and seeds, Nick's favorite, there is really no other source of coenzyme Q10 to of in, in the plant community. But you know, this is just one kind of antioxidant that's in meat. Meat has— I just took a quick note here— um, yeah, L-carnosine is an antioxidant, L-carnitine— these are only meat found— and serine, creatine, and glutathione. And taurine is an antioxidant as well. So meat is rife with antioxidants that don't exist in the plant kingdom. So I'm sure you could say the same thing about plants. I'm sure you could probably find a list of antioxidants in plants, but I bet you they don't function in human bodies like the way those meat antioxidants too. So it's interesting, it's just another, another kind of vote towards— you can't just cut— you, people break down meat to say, oh, it's protein and fat, and, you know, they might talk about omegas and they might talk about amino acids, but it's just so much more than that. There's just a plethora of—

there are so many enzymes that are naturally, you know, people will think, oh, um, you know, for digestive purposes and everything else, that the enzymes are are in your gut, they're all about breaking down and digestion. But there's so many enzymes within that meat that are active, and as soon as you cook that meat, you inactivate those enzymes. So effectively having something that's still full of all of those enzymes and ready to go, that they can have ready to go as those nutrients are effectively disassembled within the gut surely must have many more benefits than if you're just shoving through processed foods.

No, 100%. There's no doubt about it. There's a list of diseases and whatnot that coenzyme Q10 has been successful for, but do you guys know of any or which drugs might interfere with coenzyme Q10 production? Has that ever popped up on your radar?

No, go, go for it. Go on.

I have this one.

I'm scared to listen to what I might lose in my career.

And, uh, I, I, I Googled, um, I'll get, I'll get to the, I'll do the, the list of what, this is what, what studies are backing up this, the top 10. I just, I typed into, uh, ChatGPT. I said, guys, give me the top 10 most effective uses of clients on Q10 going by the literature. So I want the most amount of studies supporting it. And heart failure is at the top of the list. And right underneath that are some very interesting ones. Migraine is very high up the list, that was in the third position. So migraines are interesting because my wife gets migraines and I'm often thinking it's a nutrient kind of reason for that. Hormonal things, it can be as well, I'm sure that's a huge part of it. But migraine, so there was 3 really excellent studies on migraine with coenzyme Q10. Parkinson's disease, coenzyme Q10 is a much used bits and pieces. Diabetes, chronic kidney disease, anything inflammatory, fibromyalgia, male infertility is up there as well, and neurodegenerative disease, anything inflammatory. But one is statin-induced myopathy. So that'll give you a hint as to the top drug for interfering with coenzyme Q10 is statins. And statins really interfere with your mitochondrial function. So that's mitochondria, the ones that produce your coenzyme Q10. But there's also beta blockers, because beta blockers mess around with mitochondrial function in your heart, and so that can actually interfere with how much Coenzyme Q10 you produce. Diuretics, uh, metformin— is that the diabetes one? What's metformin? Yeah, yeah, diabetes. Yeah, chemotherapy, antidepressants— I don't know about that— ACE inhibitors, uh, epileptic drugs, all will reduce the amount of Coenzyme Q10 availability in the brain. With the epilepsy drugs. I thought that was kind of interesting, little list that they stuck on the end. So you would never think those things when you're using those drugs. That would not be something that you'd be like, warning, you know, make sure you get enough coenzyme Q10 as an antioxidant because this drug will interfere with that. It's too far down the road. It's like, as Nick was saying, it's nutrition 2.0. It's like you would never get a list of things that this drug would interfere with. You would only ever think about side effects from the drug. But one of the side effects is it'll take away one of your antioxidants that you badly need when protective mechanisms. So I thought that was interesting, something you could never foresee when you take a drug that actually interferes with the level of antioxidants in your body as well.

You know, I've got another one here. CoQ10 has been shown as protecting against cancer, chemotherapy-induced heart damage. 2022 paper here saying it hasn't been— it makes a lot of sense, hasn't been shown conclusively as a cancer treatment, but to potentially protect your heart from chemotherapy, sounds— that sounds like a great idea.

Yeah.

Also, I've got metabolic syndrome. Research shows Q10's effect on metabolic syndrome components like insulin resistance, which is a massive biggie, and lipid levels has yielded mixed results, with some studies showing benefits and others not. So That's interesting. You know, the, the statistic is in America, if you look at men and women and, and children, 90-something, like 93, 94% of human beings in the United States— and we do love our cousins in the United States— but 94% of them have got signs of metabolic disease. So maybe Q10 should be put in the water supply. Yeah. Oh, here we go.

Yeah.

No, fluorine.

Maybe you should just eat fresh food.

Yeah, fresh food, fresh heart. Yeah.

Eat some chili. I've got, I've got a juicy one here. Listen to this for a juicy angle. In a study involving mice, ubiquinol, the reduced form of coenzyme Q10 supplementation, significantly extended endurance time to exhaustion in the mice. Researchers suggested that this effect might be due to enhanced oxidative phosphorylation within the mitochondria. So it ramps up the mitochondria, gives them what they need, and increased antioxidant protection. And the next study that these guys did was in humans. Wait to hear this. Uh, these— a study on trained male athletes, is there any other kind— found that short-term supplementation with 300 milligrams per day of ubiquinol elevated plasma CoQ10 concentrations and decreased levels of extravasated enzymes related to muscle injury. Participants reported reduced fatigue during training. And I thought, oh, reduced fatigue during training.

So that's interesting because I found a paper on endurance and the response to 1200 milligrams of ubiquinone.

It's 4 times more than this study. And what did you find?

And they found no difference.

Oh, you're ruining this.

And I said, no, but it's a different— you were using ubiquinol in that study, not ubiquinone. And it's just, it's interesting, isn't it, when you look at the science, what's out there as to, you know, what they want to find out, what they want to prove, you know, what the— it's in the method. Look really carefully. Don't just say it's coenzyme Q10.

That's interesting.

I think, I think I can settle this, gentlemen. This is like a game of cards, isn't it? Everybody's trying to play a higher, higher card with the better study. Right, right, beat this. I've got a meta-analysis found that CoQ10 supplement supplementation could significantly reduce fatigue in various conditions, including chronic fatigue, which is, which is not unusual. And this was a systematic review and meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials.

Oh, that's all the right words.

Do you know what I think? I think we've approached this research in different ways, and what you've put into AI is phrased the question looking for the positives of coenzyme Q10, and I phrased the question of does coenzyme Q10 actually work?

Yeah, yeah.

And AI has gone, I know what you want to know, these are the studies you want to see, I don't know what's going on with AI recently, but half the links are utter bullshit.

I've lost complete faith in them.

I'm surprised you haven't moved to Deepseek.

I've tried. I tried to get the app actually. I downloaded it straight away. I'm more than happy to join my Chinese comrades, comrades, whatever you call them in China. But I was more than happy. But no, I couldn't get my hands on Deepseek yet, but I will. I'm all up for those sort of tools, but very misleading. I think it started off really reliable and now the links are like, I bet you that link's not true.

But even if you question papers with different AIs, you get different approaches, different answers.

Yeah.

And it's like, which ones have you tried, Bren? Which AIs have you tried?

A number. I did try ChatGPT and Conor sort of put me onto this, that actually it's almost untrainable. It seems to have a very much a staid approach. There are a couple of us, maybe I'll share them on Facebook. I mean, there are so many different ones that are out there, but there's, you know, I did try the Note Flow, interestingly, from Rita's suggestion for taking notes on consults and things like that. Initially, I was quite wowed by Summation, but then when you look at some of the transcripts, and especially when you're talking about homeopathic remedies or things like that, It totally just shits all over. What are you talking about?

Okay.

Does it learn though? Does it learn?

It will. Your private account will for all those AI.

Well, I think you need to go in.

If you have a paid version of it, Nick, you set your AI and you can tell it off. So if it, one time before when I was over, when we were doing San Diego there last year, I was looking up something on ChatGPT and it's, I was looking up some, What are the last any studies over the last 5 years into bioresonance that I need to know about? And it kind of started off with bioresonance is a pseudoscientific, blah, blah, blah. And I said, what's the definition of pseudoscience? It said it lacks studies. And I said, give me 10 studies that show bioresonance works. And it gives me 10 studies. And I said, so is this pseudoscientific? You know, I said, oh, very good. It's not. I will never say that again. And so when I was up on stage, I was kind of bragging about the fact that, well, I've been training AI for you all. I said, take out your phones and search, uh, bioresonance, is it pseudoscience? And no, not once did the AI in the room say it, that it was pseudoscientific. It didn't use that term. It used a whole lot of other terms to say it lacks, uh, you know, a whole lot of studies, which is a fair thing to say. Uh, but it's, uh, but the AI, since it only works if you've got a paid account and it learns the way you like answers, which is dangerous because like Bren just said there, you know, if I go in there and it kind of knows Conor's just looking for the juicy stuff and not the negative stuff, if you don't know to push it, then you could just get a very positive start.

If you don't know how to phrase it, that's the thing. It's back to the, you know, inquiring of studies. You know, when you're looking at, you know, what do you look at? Do you just look at the abstract? Do you look at just the conclusion?

Yeah.

You know, A lot of people do that.

Yeah.

And there's some good professionals out there that do that. And actually, you know, you can get unstuck when you actually start to really inquire as to, are they being accurate about that paper?

Yeah. Like digging into studies though, as a professional, is a certain skill and it really only in your field can you do it with any justice because it's only like a study on any sort of canine nutrition. We all love that and we pull it apart and we get into the methods and the results and it's great. But like any other subject, if you're to read one on climate or whatever, you're looking at the abstract and you're hoping what they're saying is correct because by the time you get into the methods, it's double Dutch to us. It's not a language we speak, so it's tricky. I was hoping the Coenzymes Q10 fatigue thing would work because I was thinking, why don't people dope then? Why don't they just eat lots of Coenzymes Q10? You know, is this something that dry-fed dogs, greyhounds on tracks, can you imagine how, you know, same with cordyceps?

You know, cordyceps has loads of evidence on improving performance. Oh, you know, and then, you know, you're thinking, well, hold on, why is WADA saying if we can find cordyceps in your system, you're not allowed to—

because the compounds that it produces inevitably, like coenzyme Q10, because your body produces it itself, it's okay. Now you produce testosterone yourself and you have to blow it in a certain level of that. But the Coenzyme Q10 isn't on the drug checklist at the moment. So I just thought—

so have to eat loads of beef heart. Yeah, you know, racing greyhounds and off you go.

That's it, yeah, that's it. There's so many things that racing greyhounds don't get, you know, they're on gluten-based dry food, they're on wheat-based dry food, that cannot be beneficial to them, you know, if you're going to give them carbs, give them anything but the gluten-based ones and the glyphosate, all the other crap, you know. You can probably give them clean carbs if there's such a thing. Any other factoids about coenzyme Q10 you want to share, guys, in your last 2 minutes? I think we did pretty good.

I think the take-home will be if you've got a dog with heart disease, yeah, get some heart, ideally beef heart, because then you get, you know, you get 10 times more than the other hearts that you, that you might find. And, you know, give it, give a bit every day, you know, because all it is, because heart really is just glorified muscle tissue, you know, it's very glorified and it's, you know, very turbocharged and it's got Q10 coming out of, you know, a lot more Q10, for example, as well as choline and taurine and stuff that we've discussed. But if you've got heart disease, very strong, even if you're human, you've got heart disease, I think strongly consider getting into the heart as part of your, your feed. Now you're going to say, oh my God, eating, eating heart, you know, lightly cooked heart is pretty disgusting for most people. But, and I was going to have a pot of it right here, I've got some— ah, there you go, that's exactly what I was going to say. I take liver, lamb's liver, which is not as high, but it's got a lot of other good things in it. 4 capsules of that every day at lunchtime in order to top up nutrient intake, because I'm not going to eat liver every day. No. Or heart every day, or whatever it might be. But you can often get these things in capsule form. So for us humans, that's the way to go because everybody's a bit squeamish about organs. And for the dog, yeah, feed the real deal. Feed the real deal— heart and liver and kidney and all that good stuff. That would be my take.

You can put those capsules in the pasta sauce as well. They have kids eat meatballs tonight, and so you put the, you know, little passata kind of tomato stuff on top, trying to make that taste nice, and then in goes 4 or 5 capsules of the mixed organ meats. You never taste them, you don't, they're only tiny.

So somebody did ask, is that still the same for freeze-dried? So any of these organs that we're talking about, if they're chopped into little squares and used as treats, is it just as good?

I'd have thought so. Yeah, freeze-drying is a great way to keep enzymes.

Yeah.

Armies march on us. All the armies are fed on freeze-dried food, but it's for nutrient preservation. It's unbelievable. It's just an expensive way of producing food, that's all. But it's fantastic.

Yeah. If you talk to Charlie Lambert about what they feed the British Army, it's pretty sorry.

Not so much.

It's pretty bad.

Yeah. Donuts.

Yeah.

Oh no, I'd say it's just dried, like, oxtail soup. You know, go find water and make soup. But, uh, yeah, no, you wouldn't be in the army for the delicious 3-course meals. I can't imagine that's what they're—

I know, MREs, whatever that stands for.

Yeah, um, I thought the, uh, the chronic kidney disease is interesting, Nick. You're, you're recommending Coenzyme Q10. You put me on for kidney disease. Coenzyme Q10 supplementation is associated with metabolic changes suggesting improved mitochondrial deoxidization, which is often disrupted in chronic kidney disease. Um, yeah, the diabetes, the male infertility I thought that was an interesting one as well. I wonder, do the infertility clinics kind of say, instead of trying to sell them stuff, go, well, let's get your basic nutrients up, like coenzyme Q10 and whatever else is involved, and zinc and all sorts of bits and pieces. I imagine they check all that stuff before you go down the more expensive kind of treatments. But, uh, it's interesting.

I just thought even dried heart would, would, would have a reasonable CoQ10. Oh yeah, you get beef heart and you either dry it at home in a dryer or you get it from whoever and you give those. Therefore, your treats are actually doing your dog with heart disease some good. There is some medicine in the treats that you're giving, which has to be one of the best double whammies you can possibly get a hold of. Yeah, great. Let's jump over to Patreon, guys. I'd love to go through this, the list of the contents of Q10, because some meats are actually ridiculously low in Q10.

Oh, let's do that.

Okay, everyone out there, thank you so much for all of your comments tonight. You know, everybody who watched all the way through, get out there and get some fresh hearts into your dogs. Okay, maybe even stuff a heart and Valentine's Day.

Valentine's Day, I was just gonna say, yeah, a plate full of stuffed lamb hearts for Valentine's Day. Nothing says I love you Yvette says there's something to do—

I think I was talking about how tender heart is, and Yvette, who's French and probably is an amazing cook, she says— generalizing massively— but she says it depends how long you cool the heart. So it may be that you have to cool the heart for a number of days in order to kind of tenderize. I'm not sure. I was going to say that's just about bacterial breakdown of the Mussel fibers. Who knows? Or maybe, maybe you just need to cook it for a long time. I think ours were done for about an hour and a half, 2 hours or so.

If you leave meat sitting in the fridge, you will pour water off that every day. It's like if you have steak sitting in the fridge, you will, or you'll always pour a little bit of water off, but particularly from frozen to dehydrating because the ice crystals pierce the cells. So by the time you defrost it, a lot of the cell juice runs out. A lot of the good stuff is in that juice.

So all of this sort of stuff is what we talk about over a bit on the side.

Yeah.

Come and join us.

On patreon.com/rawpetmedics for the price of a pint or a cup of tea. Please come and join us over there.

We might give you some recipes.

See you next week.

More recipes.

I'll go and get some recipes. I will go and get some heart recipes. That's what I'm going to do right now while we're waiting to swing over.

Run, boy.