DogRisk

Good evening, good evening, Great Britain, as Pink Floyd say. Hello, um, the, uh, very good to see you all. We are back together again. I'm just back from Helsinki and I didn't have my two partners in crime with me, and it feels good to be among the fold. Uh, so it's, it's, it's great to have you back. So yes, we are Raw Pet Medics. You can find us anywhere you listen to your podcast, and on Facebook and on YouTube, and now maybe on Patreon, although we're not quite sure. Yeah, we're not. Okay, ignore that bit, guys. We are still on Patreon. We We might be, we might not be.

Yeah, please come and join us on Patreon.

Yes, patreon.com/petmedics. If you can spare the price of a cup of tea or coffee, we very, very gratefully receive that. And if you can't, not to worry, we're going to be here anyway. I have a very exciting natural weight loss plan for people to rival Ozempic that I am going to be giving on Patreon later. So if you guys are out there and you're looking to shift a few of the fatty calories off your body, which I very much am. I have had a very bad month or two, as Nick's had a great month. I have had a bad month and I really just made a pig of myself in Finland and I'm feeling it. And a number of things jumped out from the talks, which we'll get to in a moment. And a number of different people said also helps with fat loss, also helps with weight loss. And I spent a little bit more time than I should going, is that true? Is there actual studies for herbal supplements that actually increase fat burning. Wait till you hear what I found out. It's very, very interesting. And so we can talk about these things because we can talk about whatever we like on this unpaid, unshackled show that we have. So that's coming up on Patreon. I thought better to do it on Patreon than do it out.

We'll do it on Patreon. Okay. I know a really good way to lose loads of weight in 2 weeks.

Don't say stop eating. No, no, no. I'm trying. It's hard. It's hard when you turn it on and you just grow. I think, I think it's as simple as this, although there's many, many facets to it. I think you grow a gut flora that screams for the thing that you've been pigging out on, you know what I mean? Like that probiotic study in heavy French red wine drinkers, gave them probiotics and slashed their red wine intake, a lot of it being sugar driven. And I've been eating sugar in various forms from beer to bread, all sorts of stuff. And I'm bunged up and I'm in the spare room on my own, you know.

You're bunged up?

Yeah.

Oh, you can get constipation tablets from your health food store.

Yeah. Constipation. I was talking about constipation up in Finland, actually. Very interesting. Yeah. What about you guys? What did you get up to on the weekend when you should have been up in Helsinki supporting me and my talk? What were you guys doing?

Go on, you first.

I'm trying to think. What did I do? He was doing nothing.

Nothing of any note. He literally didn't come to support you because he was doing nothing.

I am revelling, guys, in just being a human being and revelling in not feeling guilty and not doing much. I was reading books, walking dogs, and not feeling guilty about not doing anything. This is a revelation that's come to me over the summer. And, and I love it, you know, trying to do a bit of training every day. So I'm not kind of just sitting on my ass doing zero, trying to eat well, la la la. I'm not trying to be saintly about it or anything, but I'm just, just relaxing a bit, you know, and interesting. Yeah, that's, that's kind of where, where I am. With my journey, to be honest.

Can't remember the last time I relaxed on a weekend. I mean, I do it to myself. Oh, come on. Who does? I mean, I do it to myself. I'm crazy driven and I'm working. I love work. It's my passion. I love what I do. But also, if there was a downtime and Elaine saw me hanging around, she'd be like, oh, there's a list of jobs to do. There's no such thing as a day off anymore.

To look after, there's a dog to walk, there's washing up to do.

Yeah, all those things you don't do on day offs. I mean, the clue is in the name. What about you, Brad? What did you do this weekend?

I had a great weekend at a local large house called Harewood House. We were doing Dog Fest. Oh yeah. Talking about nutrition. It was with Bella and Duke. And I got to see, do you know, Last week's Dogfest, there was probably Baller and Duke and one other food company that were really doing it down at Ashton Court. And then I came to the one in Harewood and literally there were like 10 raw food and fresh food companies. It's a totally different kettle of fish. Yeah, a lot larger. Really, you know, great vibe from people coming up and talking to us, wanting to know more about raw. You know, it's more about that. It's the education of raw feeding and, you know, helping people. And we're doing a bit of a pet clinic where we're just talking, you know, how to get people across, why to get people across, you know, talk about their pets' issues and, you know, talking about how raw can help. So yeah, it was good. It was good to do that and to see people's great stories. For those people have experienced raw already and just want to share what they they'd found for their pets and the health improvements. So yeah, it was a good time and good place to be.

That's cool. I like it. You can't beat that bit of positivity and chatting to people. I heard from a major raw dog food, European raw dog food manufacturer that heads up the beef prices, lamb prices, and cloven hoof raw dog food prices are about to go north rapidly. The foot and mouth that has devastated the beef industry in South Africa that we are very aware of. Is now on the European continent, and the European raw dog food manufacturers are looking to Britain and Ireland for our now cheaper beef because we have more of it as the coals will start to kick in and the restrictions. So this foot and mouth is a concern, and I didn't really think about it. I just assumed it would stay down there.

Yeah, so what have you heard? It was at the same time as we were looking at South Africa last year. There are a couple of cases in Germany, but it's actually something called lumpy skin disease in France, which is absolutely decimating importation. Anything that's beef coming in from the continent right now is being stopped, um, and they are refusing entry for that meat. And there's a lot of raw food companies use that meat. That's the basics of it. So now they're having to look to their British supply to actually try and find that, and the British supply is being used by the meat trade and some of the top-end companies already. And so it's just going to drive that meat price one way.

Hmm, what animals? Beef?

Lamb?

It's beef. Beef is the big one, honestly, because that's the one that they're looking at for this particular disease. Foot and mouth will drive anything everything from, you know, your wild boar and pork all the way through to your beef and lamb. So all of those animals will be affected.

Me, I just, I can't help but worry about, remember, you can't have just, you can't forget 2008, 2007, whenever it was, the BSE virus. 2001, believe it or not. 2001.

Open mouth.

Oh, doesn't those?

In the UK.

Ah.

Okay, there's another one in 2007. That was the lab leak from Surrey, um, but it wasn't as big or dramatic as the one burned in my memory then from 2001. Jesus, that was shocking.

The fires of burning.

Yeah, indeed. Yeah, yeah. Uh, how realistic is that for our European cattle? How realistic is it gets that bad?

Um, I don't know whether it's got that bad. I haven't heard any stories reported in the veterinary press that it's got that bad. There was those few outbreaks and they did the isolation and you know, everything else in Germany. And then that's, that's pretty much all I'd heard at that point.

So yeah, very worrying, very worrying for those animals. What a waste, you know. Anyway, that's, uh, that was one bit of dirt I heard that as soon as I walked in. I heard that within 30 seconds of walking in. Oh, did you hear? And I was like, oh, this is great. I love it up in Helsinki. You hear so many cool things. But, um, yeah, there was a lot of cool talks. Matt Moore was there, uh, from Australia, and, uh Matt is really kicking ass down there. He is doing a lot of cool stuff and he's with Lyca Pet Food. You know, Lyca Pet Food in Australia, he's one of the head guys in there. They are spending in the future, built into their expenditures, $5 million on research. And it's like when you hear figures like that, it's like, oh, times are changing now because these pet foods are really starting to get a hold. And so Matt was presenting one of the studies they just got over the line looking at minimally processed is what he calls freeze-dried or is like freeze-dried. Is it dry?

I think it's lightly cooked, isn't it?

Lightly cooked. That's what it was. That's why he called it minimally processed versus some kibble and looking at the gut flora stuff. So he had, he had some great points about dysbiosis and he was looking at all the diseases that are linked to dysbiosis. But he brought up a cool little point. Get your opinion on this. He was talking about mitral valve disease, which we had just spoken about. And I said, oh, did you? I said, that's very interesting. And I stumbled into a conversation I know very little about with like one of the top vets in the world. And he's like, but he said, did you ever give any thought to the influence of gut flora in that, in dysbiosis and mitral valve disease? He showed gut dysbiosis in almost every disease you can think of. We've talked about the Alzheimer's study and, you know, from kids with autism and all sorts of stuff, this gut flora links to it. And he says you can't rule it out in any respect. He's thinking about it so much because of this study. That he's just done, that he sees it in everything. And it's a real chicken and egg question because what happens is you get more dysbiosis in your gut as the mitral valve disease progresses. And so I thought, that's interesting, but what of the confounding factor of the increase in dosage of meds? Because we had just did this talk on pimobendan, which one of the top side effects is, you know, a dicky gut, at least in the first while they're taking it. And ACE inhibitors can mess around with your electrolytes white balance, and that, I suppose, in turn could affect your guts. It's in the top 5 side effects for them. Uh, so I wonder, is it an increase in medical usage that upsets the gut flora, and so it's a byproduct of it? But I can't imagine an upset gut flora is going to help mitral valve disease because it adds so much inflammation. What do you think about that chicken and egg situation? Have you ever heard anything about that?

Yeah, did he make any links between dysbiosis in the gut, then affecting the immune system, then having a primary effect on valvular health, i.e., screwing up your valves. Did, did he— did— because that's kind of a difficult one to square. However, they do talk about peri-gingival disease, periodontal disease as being associated with kidney disease and heart disease.

Yeah.

And what have you. And so maybe it's not a bacterial thing. Maybe it's like an endotoxemia type issue.

Or just the inflammatory stuff?

Maybe just general inflammation. Yeah.

What does it do to the chordae tendineae? And basically all of the valves are held in place by little muscles, papillae, with—

Like strings, like the parachute we talked about last week.

Yeah. To those valves. So does it start to cause weakening within those muscles, within inflammation? Does it— do we actually just get a leakiness of gut and you actually get an influx of bacteria from the gut and therefore you get more bacteria floating around and you get more scarring on the valves and therefore that's the side of things? I can imagine there's all sorts of possibilities. It's just truly finding out pathologically what is going on with those rather than just the association.

Can we get him on?

Yeah, sure.

Yeah. And we can ask him all these, these highfalutin questions. That would be very good. Yeah.

He's got another point. Listen to this one. He uses lots of studies, you know, and easy guy to listen to. But he said specific— these are just quotes I wrote down, by the way, guys, so I can appreciate your help. Specific bacterial genre could be used as tumor biomarkers. And to track progression. So there's a shift in the gut flora community, it's hoped, by looking at the dysbiosis in the gut and perhaps by looking at the dysbiosis in the gut, you can reverse and kind of say, oh, well, that normally happens when there's a little tumor about and some shifts in gut flora can be expected.

That's literally you're back to, you know, you see different diseases you see different changes in gut flora, you feed that back in. That's— we've talked about that in the past. You know, it's cool. It's interesting, isn't it, that there is that association? You know, it's not all separate functional systems. This is all interlinked at so many levels.

Oh, undoubtedly. He had a few more points. Let's see.

I'm just going to jump in there for one second. I have a vague knowledge. I haven't done surgery for so many years, but of, of heart disease being related to GDV, gastric dilation and volvulus. So when you get a stomach twist, there is some kind of— it's some, some, some effect. You get a cascade of inflammatory markers which specifically affect heart function. Is that still current?

It is because— but that's all to do with venous return. Obviously, the stuff coming back from the abdomen is cut off by the huge bloated stomach. So venous return in the caudal vena cava is massively down. You've got electrolytes and effectively your acids go through the roof. So you've got acidosis, which also then massively affects the muscles of the heart. So all the muscle cells are massively affected by that acidosis. So effectively you'll get all sorts of irregularities. Your potassium goes all skew-whiff, so you end up with ectopics, you know. So yeah, there's so many— on so many levels it can cause your heart to have massive problems, which is why it's so important as soon as they're in to probably get two lines in their front legs to give them effectively increase venous return, correct their electrolytes, and, um, and get their stomach deflated as quickly as you can.

Okay, just looking at this, you're absolutely on the money. We've got reduced cardiac output, hypotension, low blood pressure, uh, myocardial ischemia, ischemia because there's, there's less blood flowing to the heart, arrhythmias, uh, GDV is associated with ventricular arrhythmias in 40% of cases. Toxic effects. This is what I was getting at. Twisted stomach can cause tissue necrosis, releasing toxins and inflammatory mediators, i.e., cytokines, into the bloodstream, and they can depress myocardial function and exacerbate cardiovascular instability. Now, if your gut has dysbiosis, I would put money on the fact that you're going to have different a different cytokine balance which may affect cardiac functionality. Now, whether it affects your valves or whether it just affects the cardiac health is another matter. But this is— that's for me, how can you tie the gut with the heart? That's maybe a mechanism, cytokines.

Yeah, cool.

That's a conversation stopper for you. It is. I'm—

as you're saying that, I'm—

okay.

Yeah, well, it might be. I was just trying to look at a link, and there you go, cytokines. There's your link. Yeah, because, because an unhappy, uh, biome will make an unhappy gut. An unhappy gut will change the cytokine balance. Unhappy cytokine balance can affect all sorts of organs, including the heart.

I thought of another little thing. Do you want to hear this? As you're saying cytokines, I had to Google and say, am I thinking of homocysteine or cytokines? I'm thinking of homocysteine. Mark Roberts said in his talk on— in his awesome talk, I'll come back to— Mark had some cool conclusions, I'll come back to it in a minute. But Mark Roberts is the sled dog dude, 20 years racing all Siberian Huskies. Very few people actually race all Siberian Huskies. They use a a moose, an Alaskan type of moose. But, um, uh, but he has some great thoughts on the use of protein and fat. Showed us a cool little study where they fed a bit more protein and fat to greyhounds and took 0.2 seconds off their timings doing a lap of 400 meters. Can you imagine? You think greyhound people would be all over that. So by reducing the carbs a touch, uh, the dogs didn't suffer. He reckons it might have actually— so just, he just threw that in there. But he mentioned the importance of a number of different things, supplements that he puts in his own dogs. He mentioned the importance of L-carnitine, which is like an amino acid that is present in meat. It turns out you have to eat quite a lot of meat to get the therapeutic dose of L-carnitine. So we all get enough L-carnitine from eating enough meat. But if you're going to think you're going to become a 100-meter dasher, which is like the most furious expulsion of energy you could imagine, you know, you have to ramp up stuff that only really supplements can touch the sides of. So he was explaining this and he said, for instance, L-carnitine, if you don't feed it to the dog, the dog has to make it himself. So think dry food, they don't get any meat, so they'll get any L-carnitine. It's not recognized as an essential amino acid because dogs can make it themselves. But he was explaining that making it yourself is an extremely expensive process. And I thought, ooh, what does that mean? And he says, first of all, a byproduct of L-carnitine production is homocysteine. And so you don't want so much of that flowing around. So when they show the studies of dry versus raw fed dogs and the dry fed dogs have more homocysteine, an inflammatory biomarker metabolite that you'd rather have less of in your body.

Yeah.

And you're wondering which is it? Is the ages? Is the Maillard reaction particles? Is it like the crap fats? Is it all the other stuff? Here's another thing. Making amino acids that you aren't ingesting through your food because you're trying to live on a vegan diet and then your body has to make L-carnitine. To make 1 gram of L-carnitine, a daily dose, the body needs 30 grams of muscle from your body. And I thought, ooh, isn't that an interesting one? Because when you increase meat protein fed to dogs, it increases lean muscle mass because they have more of it to go around, which is what you want, particularly when you're aging. But at any stage, you definitely want lean muscle mass. And so it's a very costly thing to do to produce these non-essential amino acids. So just because your body can produce it does not mean that it would choose to do it that way. And I just thought, that's an interesting one. You know, you never think about the hidden costs of not getting sperm L-carnitine, creatinine, bloody, you know, a lot of carnitine and all those others. You know, it's interesting.

I was going to say creatine seems to be quite big in people who are, you know, working out a lot and doing all that stuff. So what's the— what would Mark say to creatine? Or maybe that's a question we need to ask him.

That's a question for Mark. Yeah.

But it sounds like we're lining up a load of—

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think, yeah, line them up. Let's get them all in.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Interesting things to say.

Yeah, I do. I don't have the answers for that. The results of Matt Morris' study, just interesting. I just took the last line out of it. He has got for a study minimally processed foods like his pet food is what they use appear to favor being food stool quality, glycemic control, satiety, and diversity in a very short period with no signs of ill health. Results highlight the need to move beyond minimum nutritional standards to microbiome needs and crucially metabolic health. And I thought, yeah, buddy.

Interesting, isn't it? So that's— when was that? Is that a study that's published now?

Brand new shampoo, right?

Okay. So has that been published yet or just a review? I don't know.

I assumed it has. I look— don't know. I don't know.

It's interesting, isn't it? From the study about 18 months ago, which was in the States looking at diversity of gut flora but they used a very specific breast meat equivalent almost with no other organs or diversity in it. Yeah, in that study. And it was like, yeah, well, what do you get if you just feed this part of the animal with nothing else? Yeah, you're going to minimize diversity of the gut flora.

It wasn't a fresh pet they used as well for that study, which I think it was Was it Triton feed? Okay.

But it was one of the specific foods which was just the meat.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Crazy. It's almost like they wanted to get a positive result so people couldn't say there isn't a single study showing dry is better than raw. But that was one of the only ones. Who sponsored that study? Was that a dry food? Was that a— was that not an Essai Purina study? Was that not the dry food? That was—

I think it was.

Yeah, I think it was.

It's through university, wasn't it?

Yeah, yeah.

Was it Ohio State?

Did it?

Yeah, it's that. Yeah. So it's interesting because it flies in the face of every other dry v raw study that there is. It seems to promote species diversity. But, you know, if you're just going to eat one ingredient, why would you think you'll have a rich garden? You're not going to have a rich garden. You've got to throw out a lot of different ingredients to attract different animals and insects.

Everyone listen, that's why variety.

In humans, you're supposed to eat 30 different, I think, no, I can't remember, 30 different plants or 30 different food types per week. Is it 30 different food types?

That includes spices though. I put 5 or 6 spices in the food there that I made today, so I feel like I'm off the hook.

Yeah, but oh, I tell you what, it does take a lot of thinking about to get to 30 though.

It does. Yeah, totally. I couldn't name 30 foods. Milk. Is milk food? Sorry, that was a bad start.

Beer, red wine. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. If we go down the beer route, we can. Yeah.

And just different types of beer. Do they count as two different ones? Yeah.

More hops. More hops. I wonder what the health benefits of hops are.

Guinness versus IPA. That's too easy.

We can't talk about beer, guys. I'm on day 3 here. Not easy. There's a new study from DogRisk coming out on teeth. And everything is as you would predict. Raw food protects, protects, real food ingredients protect, dry food is a major hazard for developing dental rot in pups and adolescents.

And how did they do that study, Conor? Was that an observation study after the fact?

It's all from their previous DogRisk analysis which they're still turning this. She said she's just said you could have as many studies as you like. They are coming up with a new Dog Risk Survey. That is, that last one had 16,000 responses and it had like tens of thousands of dogs in it because 16,000 different homes responded. And so this time they want to get to a million pets and they've got Cat Risk. Cat Risk has just started off. 3 of the girls up there are doing Cat Risk. And yeah, I thought you'd be happy about that. And so they're going to be in on the survey too. But they're going to expand the survey a lot. There's some things that they wish they did that they're going to fix this time. It'll now be published in, in a variety of languages. God bless AI. They'll be— it'll be much more interactive to use. But it'll be a lengthy survey. So it'll take proper nerds like anybody listening here tonight to, to really engage with this DogWhistle survey. So when it comes out, which is in the next month or so, they're going to soft release it amongst us all here. We'll go through it and tell them what we like and don't like. And then they're going to majorly release it. And I think the quote was a million pets. Wouldn't that be awesome? Could you imagine the power of that survey? There would be nothing— I mean, nothing compared to the last one, but this one's going to be bigger because they're going to translate it into every language. So one of the benefits of AI, you know, releases it to China and Japan and Australia, whatever they speak in Australia, nobody knows. But so yeah, I thought that's going to be exciting. So look out for all that. So that was the dog study with the teeth. I told you there was a Dr. Tamara Tuominen, who was a Finnish GP, and she had did an awesome talk on why we get chronic diseases. I'll skip past half of the lecture purely because of our very monetized show. And I don't want Zuckerberg or whoever to strike us off because this GP mentioned vaccines.

Sound the klaxon at that point. Sorry.

Where was the bark? So yeah, this GP mentioned that a few times and showed us some really awesome studies of vaccinated versus unvaccinated kids. Studies are as you would expect it, with risk factors from 4 to 20 times higher, particularly for neurodegenerative issues. So very interesting, very hazardous data for her to produce. As she mentioned later, this is not good for my, you know, way of life, let me tell you. And it's incredibly brave what she does because she's been doing it for 10 years. She used to be on French news and all sorts of stuff. And now it's, you know, you don't make friends doing that sort of stuff. But she made a cool little point. Another reason we get chronic diseases besides vaccines was she said the nutritional state of the patients she sees and she said a conundrum she has. I wonder if you guys ever think about this. Is that the tests she wants the patient to do, they have to pay for. And so she goes, I blame— she goes, I just see this patient and I go, it's vitamin D, it's omega-3, it's zinc, it's copper. And she's got these top 6 or 8 that she blames for everything. And she goes, if I could get them up to optimum levels, this patient would at least be healthier. And then, you know, but to get the patient to do that, she has to get the patient to pay for a nutritional test. And tests for vitamins are expensive. And she goes, that's a conundrum because the stuff that I want to look at they don't— might not want to pay for it because no other GP is agreeing with the way I want to do things. And I thought, that's a tricky one, isn't it? When you as a vet— as you as vets, there's a number of tests you could put them through, but you really have to pick the ones that from a cost-benefit point of view, you can't just, you know, run the bloods 25 different ways from Sunday.

And that's really interesting, isn't it? Because the labs that we're looking at these days are so you know, 30 years old, some of them in general practice and knowing all of the functional tests that are out there from the vitamin D3 through Omega, you know, OmegaQuant that's out there doing omega-3s for your dogs and for humans. Yeah, all of those bits that are coming in, you know, the metabolomics, I'm sure they did some studies on metabolomics that they talked about. In Finland. But, you know, all of that is just coming. And there are so many practitioners, both in the human and veterinary world, that basically are lagging behind all of those people that are out there doing longevity stuff for their own health, because that's out there. You know, people are looking at how their hormones are metabolized. You know, they're looking at, you know, what their food is doing to their systems. They're testing the exhaust basically to see how not only what fuel they're consuming, but actually how their engine is running and how efficiently. And, you know, it's like, it's gobsmacking stuff. But there are so many conventional vets and doctors that just, it means nothing to them. They're not even comprehending what that's about.

Totally. Just going to go back to your point about the doctor. So she's got 6 or 8 go-to. So that would be magnesium and zinc and iron and vitamin D3 and K2.

What?

Okay, so, so, and, and she's saying that it's— to test for all of those is going to be whatever, €500 or whatever it might be. What about she just puts all of her clients on I'm a good omega-3 supplement. Yeah, liver, because I talk to people about eating liver. I talk to them about their dog eating liver, but I say you should be eating liver as well. And they say, when I was 7 years old, I was served rubbery liver and onions at school and I've— and it's put me off for life. Pound to a penny, everybody says exactly that. It's like I was traumatized as a child. I can't eat it now. Or they've, you know, they're vegetarian or something like that. But what you can get, if you're vegetarian, this doesn't count. But if you've just got a phobia of eating rubbery liver, then those, you're backwards, my friend. Sally Tobin is going to be having a fit right now because you're backwards. There you go. You look much better like that as well.

She could have just looked in a mirror and watched the video from there.

So why doesn't this? This person. And there's a third element to that, which is try and reduce your ultra-processed food by 50%. I'm not even saying eliminate it, okay? Because that is massively, massively addictive. That's my son just going for a shower. And so, yeah, those three things, they are doable. Yeah, because you can, you can order your omega-3s from Amazon. These, these are three top ones. This is the expensive one, this middle one, this is a cheap one. This is the organs I would suggest. You either go for the grass-fed organs or you get, you know, hunter and gatherer, or you get something just cheap and cheerful, liver, you know, desiccated liver in a tablet, and say just take those for 6 weeks and we'll run the bloods again. And reduce your, your ultra-processed food, which means biscuits and, you know, and really interesting thing, uh, you said why test, why not just do this. Agree, but if the 500 quid test is inhibiting them from being healthier, why not just throw some nutrients at them? I think the risk of doing that is very low.

The risk is very low. The results in the raw food community out there— and this is why it's been interesting testing dogs who are fed on different raw foods and acknowledging, especially for the omega-3, 6, or 6:3 ratio, acknowledging that we do not use brain material in our raw foods. You know, it's basically incinerated in the UK, devastated in Europe. It's devastating that they are so wasteful of it because they won't use a PCR to look for prions and therefore be able to, you know, say, yeah, that passes, it can be used, that doesn't, it can't be used because they're worried about identifying those TSEs within certain farms and therefore showing that they've got prevalence of prions in certain situations.

That would be an easy, simple answer, and therefore it's not.

Yeah. So anyway, so, so the fact that we can't use that really rich source of omega-3s means that you do need to supplement. And this horrible standard that's been held up there by FEDIAF and AFCO that is quite blatantly just deficient when it comes to good omega-3s, not oxidized even, and accepting a 30:1 ratio. I mean, what are they thinking? You know, it's just like, you know, that is what you need.

A roaring fire.

If you've only got grain as your best.

Yeah, it's just, it's ridiculous. She made one more point, Dr. Tamara Tuimen, and This is a critical point for anybody that might have anybody affected by cancer. If they don't understand this sentence, I urge you to get Googling. Cancer growth and progression can be managed by a move from fermentable metabolites, primarily glucose and glutamine, to respiratory metabolites, primarily ketone bodies. That was an abstract of a massive cancer study that she shared. And I just thought, if you really don't understand the difference between you know, running on glucose and ketones. It's really worth an hour of your time to get to the bottom of that. So next time you talk to your GP, you can ask them the questions. We also did a lot of teamwork stuff in Anna's house and we were saying how to best deal with a vet. We took loads of notes, how we might get them on side in a friendly way because it's a problem we all have. I've had it, everyone's had it. And, and what some of the ideas was actually coming and writing down some of these questions that we have before we go in there on a friendly basis and say, these are some of the things I'm interested in exploring, you know. And so some of these questions are diet-related or things we're looking at, drug-related. But I'm going to share that stuff later when someone else—

I've actually done a 3-hour course on how to talk to your vet. And people can access it at the Billinghurst Institute. So if you just Google Billinghurst Institute and you follow through the links, there are two courses there. Number one is how dog owners and concerned people who are concerned in order to try and get that information over to vets. Yeah, so it's owners to vets, 3-hour lectures, 3 3 hours of different aspects of this fascinating, important topic. But I've also done another one of similar depth of vets, how to get your message across to your owners, whether you're feeding raw or not, but especially for those people who, those vets who are sympathetic to nutrition and getting across a positive nutrition message. So the Billinghurst Institute, you're very welcome to jump onto that. And actually, Fiona, who was in Helsinki, said to me, oh, what's the, what's the address? On the Sunday, I think it was. And, uh, and I sent that to her. So that is a plug, but I— it's the only course that I know of where it says this is how you may want to talk to vets. So you're welcome.

Dr. Judy's page has started to put some posts on there as just trying to help people be more confident about their convictions. If you're being sold stuff that you're not asking for, if it's no longer providing you with a service but you feel that you're being sold extra vaccines, extra worm and extra flea, extra tick products, you know, all of these things, you know, to be more confident about saying thank you for the information, not interested in that right now. This is the things I prefer, like vaccine checks, like, you know, looking at worm egg counts, you know, looking at risk assessments of risk avoidance, natural parasite control, and how— yeah, and all of those in natural parasite control. Thank you for the DermaDog.

I just happen to have it on my desk.

Jesus, Anton is really, really drumming it home for the family tonight. That is the one I use, Nick, and I'm promoting that because your wife makes it. That is the one I use. I think it smells divine and it worked for me in South Africa, and that's the one I use. And you don't charge enough for it, Nick, so get it. Well, Nick is desperately undercharging for it. That's on holisticvet.co.uk.

So listen, guys, it's not on holisticvet.shop, so jump on.

No, no, you're wrong, you're wrong. Okay, so the last few minutes, I want to show you these images. I'm sure Dr. Conor Brady Borgman won't— or Professor Anna Borgman won't mind. She did a great few slides on mucous cell buildup in the gallbladder. Does anybody want to give us 30 seconds of what mucous cells might be before I show you the difference between dry and raw?

Okay. Firstly, the gallbladder is in the liver. It collects bile from the liver function through the bile ducts into effectively a sac. and that sac then stores that for when the ingester comes from the stomach down into the small intestine, and it's pumped out to help absorption of fats, etc. Now what can happen is that stuff can sludge up, and actually inflammation can cause more mucous, thick globular stuff to form on the outside of the gallbladder, and that's where it starts to become a mucosal that it starts to bung up the exit from that gallbladder and it can become inflamed. It's, you know, the membranes of that gallbladder start to suffer. You can end up with gallstones if that's left to go for too long. But yeah, it looks quite interesting when you do ultrasounds of gallbladders with those mucoseals with the sort of extra sort of fluidy areas around the perimeter of that and the goo that's in it. That's a brief, a brief what is a gallbladder mucosa.

So what's the difference therefore that Anna has found between the raw-fed gallbladder, Dr. Conor Brady's gallbladder, and the kibble-fed?

Allow me to show you. Tell me when you can see that Image. Tell me when you can see the image on your screen.

You're not sharing it appropriately for me to bring it up on screen.

I am, Bren.

No, you're not. It's not there. Oh, look. Sharing screen. That's what you're sharing.

That's not good. Can you see me?

I can see you again, but I can't see what's on that.

Try that once more.

Can you not share just the tab?

Here we go. No, because it won't find it for some reason. Now. What about now? Can you see now? Can you see it now?

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I can't, I can't. In fact, actually it's not allowing Nick to share whatever he wants.

I'm not, I'm just saying. So you have to tap the, the, the square that you want. You have to go to entire screen.

And then I clicked entire screen. Yeah, share.

Yeah, so glad you're not coming to the next conference.

I really want to show you. That's annoying.

You were able to do it last week.

I know, yeah, not— this just keeps kicking me out.

Uh, what screen is it actually sharing? Is it— if you've got a blank screen that it's sharing?

No, it's just, it's just not happening.

Describe it, describe it.

I'll tell you what I'll do. I can message you. It's now being presented to broadcast. Here we go. Oh, you see, something's wrong there.

Tell you what, let's do it on Patreon. Patreon, because we've just got a couple of minutes.

Yeah. Is there any—

so what was your big take on Helsinki? I find I always come away from Helsinki and think, oh, that's the state of play in Europe with Rolf.

Yeah.

What would you say was your summary?

Very busy. It was busy. Nice, nice attendees.

No, no, no. What's the state of Raw in Europe from your conversations with people?

Oh, sales are good. I don't think they're too excited about next year or the year after. Financially, everybody is predicting a little bit of doom and gloom coming up. And so Raw is still at the top end of the market. While it's still growing very quickly, you're still looking at people that you could take an extra little bit of a penalty to buy good quality food for your pet. So that end of the market, they expect a little bit of a slowdown in a year or two. That was definitely the vibe on the street. But sales are very, very good. Business is good. A lot of acquisitions going on. A lot, you know, you get talking to Magnus, which is an enormous producer up there in Mushup in Scandinavia, enormous new premises that they're putting together. You know, everything is positive on the manufacturing side. So that was all good. I just kept asking for 2 or 3-year projections and they're like, well, I don't think anybody's too excited about a year or 2. So I thought, I wonder how does everybody else feel about that? I'm sure they can— I sense it, I feel it. I feel like there's not going to be as much money around in a year or 2. I feel like something's brewing, but who knows? And maybe not everyone agrees, but yeah, that's it. It was just great, great. The talks are always high quality. Everybody in the audience knows more than you. It's no longer presentations on, you know, how to do this or that. It's just not— it's just, it's got to be good. And so it's great. And the chats are great. And you meet Robin, and he's doing this phenomenal research. And yeah, no, all very, very encouraging. And you come away brimming with ideas. It's one of the best quality talks out there. Another good one, actually, just to plug it, Feed Real over in San Diego, going to that next month, on the weekend of the 11th, 12th, 13th around that of October. So check it out, guys. That said, there's a girl who's a journalist from the Wall Street Journal at it this year, and I thought, oh, this is really helping them. Uh, so yes to that. And so I like that one. I like that Helsinki one.

Uh, and did you see I sent a post to you guys saying that Joe Rogan has just changed his dog onto raw food as well?

Oh, boom!

Lovely.

Yeah, he had a lot of attention from the farmer's dog for a while, so surely he got onto raw because he's eaten so much meat himself. Yeah, it was only a matter of time. Gotta get on there. Imagine the three of us on that.

That would be just such a hoot. Wouldn't it be amazing? So that's—

I think it has to be Fly to Texas.

Let's make it a project. I would be happy to fly to Texas to see you.

Oh yeah, a million people listening to us. Oh my God.

Okay, so we've got a year to do that, boys.

Okay, great.

Let's jump over to Patreon, Patreon, and, um, See, what are you going to be talking about? You're going to be talking about vaccinations, is that right?

The weight loss supplement.

Oh, and the weight loss. Yeah.

Yeah.

All right. Tell us about the vaccines as well.

Okay. Well, okay. Okay.

Great, everyone. Brilliant to see you again. Keep an eye for all of the things that we're doing over the next couple of months because there is so much on. So there'll be individual posts going out there. Good to see you all. Take care.

Thanks, guys.

Bye.