Homeopathy: A New Hope

Oh, good morning, Vietnam. Paul is rubbing his eyes like he's just woken up after a nap. Oh, welcome guys. We are here this evening. I am on the move down from Edinburgh. I pulled over, so I'm not driving. Honestly, that's not me driving. Okay.

You could put a poster of some trees on your window so you could just pretend.

Yeah, just keep going.

Whoa, get off the road!

Some very unnatural words out of Ben there. We had to cut them off for obvious reasons.

Guys, we are Raw Pet Medics and we do this lovely little cozy show every Tuesday at 7 PM UK time. Uh, we do have a, a, a large cohort of people who support us on Patreon, and you can find our stuff on Patreon, just go to Patreon and put in Raw Pet Medics and we are there. We also do podcasts. Pete does his magic on our dribblings and turns it into quite a good show. You can grab us there on any podcast you fancy if you don't catch up. It's all recorded and we all, we do it for love. We don't do it for money, that's for sure. And here we are. Connor, you suggested homeopathy and because your wife hasn't been well for a while and you've had an experience with a remedy.

So I'm trying to like, I've tried it on a few different people recently and my, you know, one of the kids is still in crèche and so she brings a cough home and if the older kid gets a cough, historically it would go down. She would not get over it. And that was her thing. Fit out everything else. But if a cough comes into the house, Holly will get it and it'll go down and I think maybe at least once we've used antibiotics on her and I don't want to use them. And it's like, okay, but this is when, you know, there's no atheists in foxholes. She was really bad at one stage, didn't want that to happen again. She'd struggled to get over a couple of weeks. I swear, since I got this little box and I'm sorry, I can't remember the name of the pet shop that sold it to me. It says homeopathy for pets. But being the responsible parent I am, I give it to the kids. And it's good enough for the dogs. And so, and since then her cough has never developed badly. So like if anything ever comes into the house, any colds, anything, you're talking a day and it's gone. And no matter who you tell about that, it's like, that's coincidence. It's just a coincidence. It's like, well, I know this is what I'm seeing, but my wife was down with something that a few other people have been down with around me. I can see there's a cold here and a cold there. And she was sick and a couple of days, 3 days, utterly miserable. And I said, right, had a quick look around. There's about 10 different things you can give for that sort of the symptoms she was expressing. Get on to Nux vomica because I don't know what I'm doing. And like a turnaround in a day. Now people would say, but then the people would get over that in a day and so on and so forth. But I am a complete convert now. I just have— I've tried that on my friends. I've got a friend down the road who is an absolute believer, and her sister was pregnant and she had morning sickness. Sickness and considering the safety profile. And pregnant women these days don't want to take anything. So, and that worked a treat on her. And she's had that for 8 and a half weeks. She was down and she didn't like, she, it was ruining her life. People can go through the whole pregnancy with it. And that was an instant turnaround. And she wouldn't have taken that if it hadn't happened to Lane. So it's like pieces just bump, bump, bump. And I'm just plodding along. These kits, and I'm sorry, I hope the pet shop owner's watching. If they are, feel free to plug yourself. Comes with a little booklet. So when people ask, what do I read? It comes with a little booklet and each little health condition is in there. And then you look at the health condition, but there's a lot of different types of it and they tell you the symptoms. Are you— do you feel like this? You know, and you look at it and, and you plod your way through and we'll talk— book recommendations will come up from the labs and stuff because I am no expert. I don't— I barely understand what is happening. But I am absolutely converted that this is something I really, really need to, to look into. So that's why I want to talk more about it. We actually did this about 2.5 years ago, 3 years ago, if you remember. Yeah, it was one of our things we did in the middle of COVID So can't imagine too many people wanted to hear those messages during COVID but I think more people want to hear it now. So that's why I want to learn more.

Well, it's interesting, isn't it, because it is that whole health journey that people are experiencing post that event 5 years ago, that, you know, they're changing that whole aspect of what levels they're trusting conventional medicine, all of the side effects they've seen happen with various medicines, you know, their desire to find new things that are happening, but also in their own nutrition. And that's also leading to a huge rise in people's interest in their pets' nutrition and changing their diets alongside their own. So I get why we should include it tonight because it's part of that journey. I think there's lots of people have reached out to say, look, I've either experienced this for myself and my kids and my family as you have. And actually, I want to know more for my pets and my other kids. For many of them, that's how they consider them. And so, yeah, it's great to talk about it.

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. I'm going to kick off this. It's a fascinating discussion and we could talk for days. Back in the early days, there was a There was a guy called Hans-Joachim Hammeister, such an amazing name. I've remembered it ever since. And he, with no script whatsoever, just spoke. Brent, were you at that? You might have been at that. Sue Armstrong was there back in the day. And this guy just delivered the most amazing day's discussion about health and the health industry and homeopathy for the entire day. And we could, I have no doubt, talk about this all day long. So, uh, the first thing— so I'm going to maybe guide, and if other people of you have thoughts, then let's just throw in a question, you know, kind of commonly asked questions, because I think homeopathy is very misunderstood. So my first question therefore to, to, to you, Conor, as a, as a newbie to homeopathy— and I'm delighted you've, you've, uh, you've gone the extra mile to look at it because it's a very difficult thing to get your head around. Brendan and I have been doing it for a um, but you need to make that initial leap because there's, there's elements to it which I think we'll probably do today of why conventional science, conventional medicine finds it so difficult to comprehend. So my first question therefore, just to, to lead things off, would be what's the difference between herbal medicine and homeopathic medicine? Then we can talk about the principles of prescribing and, and what have you. So do you want to— so Conor, have you got any, any thoughts? And if you say, I'm not really sure, that's cool because that's probably most of the audience.

I can tell you what I understand of it so far. People say it's a sugar pill or it's just water. And I would say both of those things are strangely true about these little pillules, tiny little round pillules. And they are about— they're just— I can't tell you how small they are. Two tiny little 30 little tiny pills, ball bearings, nearly tiny. And from what I understand, it's something about energetics. This stuff is like— it's not— there's a figure in chemistry called Avogadro's number. So it's 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 is then that constituent is said not to be in the mixture. So when you are looking at a lot of these words, I would know the name of like they're plants like belladonna. I go, bloody hell, belladonna, that's poisonous. Well, it was belladonna perhaps at some stage, and you can tell me about this bit, but through a series of dilutions, it is almost like the memory of belladonna in the pillio, like some sort of energetics is what I understand. And that's all I know of it. It's like, it's— I think about it like belladonna works because the way belladonna kills you, the symptoms are the ones you're experiencing. And if you take a tiny little bit of it, like venom and antivenom, that's the way I think of it. I see Nux vomica and I go, bloody hell, that'll make you sick. Well, it would if you took the whole dose of the real thing. But when you take these tiny little bits of it, the way you can make a smallpox vaccine from smallpox gloop and that kind of stuff, That is my, that's my remedial understanding of it. And I haven't looked into it any more than that. I just think it's— so when people say it's just distilled water, well, yeah, but I've got Nobel Prize-winning chemists and physicians that look into this and are big homeopathy people. So don't question their science. And they say there's energetics in water, which we know of. The guy that found out about that in the '80s, he's a homeopath as well. And that's, that's just gold. We know all about that. Great YouTube videos on it. But that's all I know. I know that people have looked into it and there's definitely something. I know dogs can sniff out a homeopathic mixture versus distilled water. What the hell is that if it's pure and distilled water? And those little facts. And that's all I have. And I haven't gone any deeper.

I think that's spot on. I think that's a really good summary for somebody who's new to the topic. Brent, you got— do you want to expand on that?

Some great points there. And I think it's a really good way of explaining it to keep it simple, as you guys did last week. Not. And so from a point of view of a homeopath who's using the remedies and the learning that we go through, I think it frustrates me when a lot of people say, oh, but you look at the science and I don't understand it, therefore it can't be scientific. Is really frustrating because actually when you learn how initially they were using homeopathy and the, the thought was, look, I've got something that's toxic here, it's going to cause the symptoms that I'm trying to cure, but yet the texts say to use something that's similar to cure those symptoms. How do I achieve that? And Hahnemann going through a whole process of, um, not just dilution, but actually it was diluting in a certain way which allowed succussion and passage of that solution-making into the next potency that allowed him to reach a point where he was still gaining the efficacy but reducing the toxicity. So he knew that he could give a dose, it would almost give the body the information to then push back and overwhelm both the remedy and the symptoms. And therefore allow a cure. And you, by withdrawing the medicine, you've no longer giving that push of symptoms. So you've given a dose, told the body what to do, it overwhelms that remedy and the symptoms cure, and you're no longer adding toxins into the body by continually dosing.

I understand that.

So, so that's really where that comes along. So it's not just about dilution. There is a degree of something called potentization. And certainly you're right, if you were to purely do it on a chemistry point of view and look at the dilution only, you'd get to about 12C, you're reaching Avogadro's number, and then beyond that, so 30Cs, as you've got in your box there, there should be nothing left in them. But it is so interesting that, you know, animals can detect those homeopathic potencies. Yeah, there is enough of a change. And we could only assume that lots of theories have gone in as to how that solution is maintained, how that energetics is maintained into others. I don't think that we should be necessarily concentrating— well, I wouldn't want to concentrate on that too much because it does make your mind ache as to how that can sometimes happen. Um, you know, I've followed some of the theories. I love some of those, uh, options. However, you know, structure of water, all of these things that get talked about, but I don't think there's truly been an absolute solution to that. People have said, oh, this must be it, you know, X-ray diffraction. Yeah, you can create ice crystals from these solutions, and they are the same in homeopathic potencies as they are in the actual crystal solutions that you make up of detectable levels. You know, explain that.

Just go through that again. How is that?

You must know there's a Japanese guy who famously looks at crystal formation of ice, and they're actually by changing something structurally within the water, it changes how the ice crystal forms. And that's pretty unique to whatever solute or whatever you're putting into that solution.

Does he not do it with emotions as well? Does he not like anger and feeling of love?

Yeah, so this is the thing, and this is where this gets really interesting. And sometimes mind-warping is that that's why with some remedies, they're not just based on a solute. They're not just based on a salt crystal going in and being diluted over and over again, or a toxin going in and being diluted over and over again, as you've said. But they are sometimes used, you know, whether it's bioresonance, whether it be capturing the essence of sunlight, or, you know, Salt is a remedy, believe it or not. There's all these sort of things which makes you understand that this is actually more to do with energetics than it is to do with physical solutions.

Surely the quantum physics dudes would love a bit of this.

Oh, they have. I think they've pressed that button. They've, some of them, I think 15 years ago there was a guy saying, oh, you know, we don't think that that's an issue anymore. That's, you know, put to bed. You've got some physicists that, well, some cosmologists who feel that, you know, putting quantum physics into it doesn't prove it or disprove it. It's actually just an excuse that a lot of homeopaths have created as to why it works. So I think there's still debate as to the actual how that gets through. But, you know, we see this in so many other forms of complementary medicine where, you know, they physically are shown to definitely be better than placebo, and yet, because they're unexplainable, we're not going to keep doing them.

Therefore, the study doesn't count.

Somewhat better than placebo, all of a sudden you look at some of the drugs out there that are worse than placebo. Bingo!

Bingo! With side effects.

Oh my God, you know, why are you complaining about, you know, something that doesn't have the side effects that, you know, can. And there was a post, I think not a month ago, by somebody saying, you know, why on earth, you know, are we considering these complementary medicines? They may do no harm, i.e., people don't see them as having side effects. Yet what they're then saying is, therefore, because people are switching off from conventional drugs with all of their side effects, that they must be doing harm.

Yeah, yeah, it's infuriating. Nick, tell me, what— why does it say 30C on that bottle? On, uh, okay, what's the C bit?

The C, okay, so 30C. So imagine you've got in front of you 30 test tubes, okay, and they have all got, for example, 99 drops of, uh, of water, a little bit of alcohol to help with the dilution process. So you've got these 30 things. So what you do is you get— you go up to the Alpine glade and you find some Arnica montana, okay, up in, up in the Alps. Yeah, you've got to get past Judy and Julie Andrews and the singing children and what have you, but you go and get your Arnica montana. You, you mix it up like a herbalist would to make a tincture, and in the first tube— I'm going to go from, uh, left to right— you put 1 drop of the Arnica montana mother tincture. Yeah, you filtered it and what have you. You put that in, and thus you have made a first centesimal dilution. And in order to, we think, energize, to change that first test tube, what you do is you succuss. Now, Hahnemann, being a good God-fearing man, said you've got to do this on a leather-bound Bible. Okay. Okay, but that was just, you know, that he started this whole thing in kind of 1796. He was a contemporary of Mozart. Yeah, that's when he discovered this, that the power of dilution— first of all, he went for dilution, and then he discovered succussion. Okay, it's what we call this thing. Yeah, so each step actually has had energy put into it, because otherwise you're making something out of nothing. Yeah, so, okay, very, very—

how could he discover that? How could he know that?

Well, there's one story that he had all his remedies there and he went trotting off to see Helga in the next village 5 miles away, and there was— there was a concussion, and he found, oh my goodness, my remedies are doing different things now. Who knows? But do you know, so you have to have this input, so it isn't something for nothing. Okay, so that's the first. Okay, so you've got, you've got this succussion and you dilute it, and then you take 1 drop out of that and you add 1 drop of that into the next, which is a blank 99 drops of solution. Okay, you then— and, and that would be, that would be your second. Yes, that would be 2C. So centesimal, meaning 100. Yeah, it's 100 dose, and then, and then you go C. Okay, so it's 2C. And then, and as Brent rightly says, once you get down to 13, you're basically in Avogadro's territory, where of the Arnica montana that went in, the probability of finding one molecule when you're at about 12C is such and such. There is a probability, but when you go to 13C, that probability drops. Okay, because Avogadro says there's only so many particles within any given solution, and you just dilute. If you dilute, dilute, dilute, all you're doing is diluting. Homeopathy is not dilution. Homeopathy is succussion. You're taking the energy up with that. So that's a— that takes you to 12C and 13C. But what you've got in your hand and what you've used with your friends and the family is 30C. So you go, you go dilute, It dilutes the cuss, dilutes the cuss, dilutes the cuss down to 30C, and thus you have this, which is incredible. Yeah, absolutely incredible. But then you think that homeopaths are routinely using 200C potencies. This is where your mind is going to get absolutely blown, and the medical profession thinks they've gone way beyond Avogadro's. How can they ever— and That's where their brains seize and they can't go any further, which is sometimes where you need an act of faith in order to be able to say, yeah, well, I gave this nothingness to my wife, my kid, what have you, and it changed their physiology. It was actually measurable. It was demonstrable. Something happened that should not have otherwise happened. And so that's where you get 30C. But we don't even stop there. We go to 1,000. 10,000°C.

Who makes that? Who? How do you make a thousand?

I mean, you have machines to do it, basically.

Oh, okay. Yeah, okay.

Now, yeah, yeah, back in the day they didn't really. I think maybe they went to about 60°C.

Back in the day you had some little person in the back room going, yeah, kill me.

Yes. Okay, and so we're using 10,000°C. We're using, um, uh, we're using 50,000, 100,000 C.

So I'm going to put— if I come with an allopathic kind of normal pharmacy head on me, are you saying that the dose is stronger the higher it goes up, or is there some other word that I'm not— that's not the right word?

Bren mentioned potentization. Yeah. Now the doctors will say you're just diluting it, you are an idiot. But what we would say, no, we are potentizing, we are increasing the energy of each at each stage. And basically homeopaths approximate. They'll use 12C commonly, they'll use 30C commonly. You can use 13, 14, 15, 16. Yeah, that's just like the— but it's just, and we say, right, 12C seems to be a pretty good thing, and, uh, 30C is a pretty good potency as well. 200C is considered an, an aggressive potency for— so if you've got the same box For childbirth, for example, most of those remedies would be a 200C because it's an acute situation. It's not pathology, but it's acute. You've got acute inflammation, you've got a bit of stress, you've got a bit of panic. You know, cervix may not open. And so there are remedies that we can use to help with that. You've got remedies to help the contraction of the uterus. You've got remedies to give the baby if they're a bit bruised, battered, or blue. Yeah, Carbo Veg for a blue baby. Is a lovely remedy. I've used it on calves. So it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a big ocean of amazingness that you can then swim around in. And the remedies, to learn the remedies at a basic level is pretty simple. Carbo veg, blue babies, Arnica, bruising, Nux vomica.

Arnica, there's a classic one. I mean, for all the people that are in disbelief, every single person you know uses Arnica. Everybody does. But you sure as hell don't use the full dose of Arnica from the, from the actual, the initial kind of what is it, a herb? What is Arnica?

Where's Arnica Montana? It's a plant that grows up in the mountains.

Okay, cool. But I imagine it's very potent taking it on its own. So everyone takes Arnica in a homeopathic mixture and that's what the doctors will prescribe. That's what the pharmacies have for sale. That's homeopathy. And when you, when you, when that's pointed out to people, they can't believe that that's not something that's you know, is that it must be something else. And yet they still can't make the leap. Well, if Arnica works, maybe something else works. Maybe you should try it. I think the most scientific thing you can say— any scientist that says this is poo-poo's this without trying it themselves is an absolute fool. It's just such an unscientific thing to do, to not try it yourself on something, you know, or doing some studies.

Yeah, it's like somebody comes along, comes along with, with aspirin. And science just rejects it out of hand. Can you imagine how ridiculous that is? Or they come along with, I don't know, um, uh, heavier-than-air flight with the, with the Wright brothers, and they just go, can't work because it can't work. Yeah, that's what they've done with homeopathy. It's really interesting because in the States they were very strong with, with homeopathy. There were maybe 100— I'm making that figure up, but it's about that, around that area. Homeopathic colleges at the beginning of 1905, 1910, and what have you. And our good friend Rockefeller didn't like homeopathy or chiropractic, osteopathy, and what have you. He wanted to sell petroleum-based pharmaceuticals, so he was instrumental in setting up the AMA, the American Medical Association. Which took great delight in absolutely trouncing and closing down all of these centers of learning.

Alternative, all of a sudden.

Yeah, alternative. Yeah, you know. Yeah. And, and, and thus homeopathy is at a very— quite a low ebb in the U— in the USA. It's always been fairly strong. The, the faculty of homeopathy was, was introduced in 1948 by an Act of Parliament. Okay, so we have recognition there, and you've been able to get homeopathy in on the NHS as part of the service since 1948.

Well, we— because, because the royal family are so into it, because the Queen is into it, was into it, the King, uh, Prince Charles, because of the doctor that they have who was an absolute legendary, highly decorated doctor He is massive into homeopathy. I've got an interesting fact about Rockefeller. This was one of my things.

So, yeah.

Did you know that Rockefeller, J.D. Rockefeller, had a father who was called—

No.

Yes, he did.

He had a father. There you go.

Yeah. He wasn't spawned by the devil, but he, he had a father who was also called J.D. Rockefeller. Senior and J.D. Rockefeller was massive into homeopathy. He was so— yes, this isn't that interesting. He was so into homeopathy, he had a homeopathy practitioner living with him to keep him healthy. That much money. J.D. Rockefeller, his son Junior, was birthed by a famous homeopathy doctor, a gynecologist. And Rockefeller Senior was so into this he had— he didn't give a shit about allopathic medicine. But what Rockefeller was good at, the boss, the senior, where the money came from initially, what he was famous for was finding the right people to work with. And Rockefeller's movement, Rockefeller Senior, who first made tentative steps towards investing in this new medicine idea that they pretty much invented, was because Rockefeller found this reverend that he— they were into this in the same Baptist church. And Rockefeller found a guy called Reverend Frederick Gates, a Baptist minister. and he helped Rockefeller donate his money to people. But it turns out that Gates was an absolute financial wizard himself, and he started persuading Rockefeller Sr. to endow various bits and pieces with his money. But Case saw the money in— we could actually own— there's no serious method to medicine at the moment, and we could sell a lot of shit if we just pump our money into, insert, you know, universities and programs and whatnot. And Case the assistant of Rockefeller Sr. And when Rockefeller Jr. was born, Rockefeller Jr. had an apprenticeship under Case. And Case taught Rockefeller Jr., buddy, your money's gonna be made in, we will make up conventional medicine and we will kill it financially. And Rockefeller Sr. had no faith in allopathic medicine. He wanted to do homeopathic medicine and his son talked him out of it. And so I've got some great quotes from Rockefeller Sr. where he is opposed to allopathic medicine. That's what Gates was telling people. And here's the last bit. After an apprenticeship with Frederick Gates, the son became convinced that Gates's plan to support medicine and to build on that was worthy of strong financial support. The two worked harmoniously together, the son being the faithful intermediary between the salesman Gates and the senior Rockefeller, the believer in homeopathy. And that was the end of homeopathy because the son went for the money and the dad was for the health. And I just thought, oh, that's a gem of a— because like when you look at the amount of people Listen, like, you know, you've got the book, by the way, this is Brian Brandeis. Thanks very much, Brian, for pointing this out for me. He says, check out Rockefeller Medicine Men: Medicine and Capitalism in America. This is the advent of Rockefellers taking over the narrative about medicine, saying you have to do studies, which homeopathy has. It beats in randomized controlled trials. Homeopathy can beat better than average distilled water, could never do that. So once it beats something, something's happening. So you can't you can't dispel that. It does win in studies. So that's, that's sometimes it doesn't. But it's the same as normal medicine. Charles Darwin, he was a big homeopathy dude and he had a few good ideas. 3 or 4 Nobel Prize winners. Dr. Brian Josephson for physics in 1973 defended homeopathy. Luc Montagnier, a virologist, he discovered HIV. He's big into homeopathy. The father of modern physiology, Dr. Claude Bernard, Dr. Jacques Benveniste, immunologist. Yeah, Benveniste. He's the guy that found out water can retain a memory of substances, which is key to this, isn't it? Rowan Atkinson, The King and all that kind of stuff. And a number of professors and human doctors and vets all around the world practice this and use it. So when you go around talking about what you think you know about homeopathy, just shush for a second and just try it yourself before you ramble on. And it's so frustrating, you know. Anyway, that's me done. What do you think, Brent? What, how does, how does someone like, I suppose if you go to somebody for homeopathy advice, I suppose, or do you, did you like start off doing it yourself, Brent, by like reading textbooks? We've got so many cool books. Lise Hansen's book I thought was a lovely, simple introduction to homeopathy. I could understand it. Well done, Lise. And a couple of others that you recommended that I bought, but it got too difficult for me. How would you recommend, how did you start off, Brent, into this? Did you just go straight for the books?

Well, no, actually, uh, the home practice that I came back to in Leeds and actually became a partner of, um, had already started to use homeopathy. John Saxton has a great book out there on use of homeopathy. He also did the Balnosode one that I think you've looked at before.

I want to know what that is.

Yeah, and, uh, so it was a great sort of introduction. He'd used that in the family pets a while before I'd come along. And actually, I'd gone back to the practice having done a deep dive into loads of various areas of medicine, having qualified. We didn't have referral centers when I qualified in the same degree as we do now. They're on every street corner. People are afraid to do stuff themselves. So you had to just knuckle down, study, get the best you could at everything. And I then came back to that practice thinking, I've had enough of being an assistant, I'm going to set up. And John invited me in to be a partner within that practice, which was very fortuitous. And people like Sue Armstrong were already there. Wendy Dixon, as she now is before she got married, was there. Anoushka Viljan was there. Yeah, there's a few people in that environment already using homeopathy or training. You know, the latter two were training. And I was fortunate enough to experience that, seeing animals curing rather than me just giving medicines to maintain them. And that was the biggest, you know, goal. Like, you've done all you can, you've worked really hard. You think you're doing a really good form of medicine, but you realize that you're just maintaining cases.

Right.

Which is great for business. Yeah. Rather than leading to truly aiming to heal and get them better so that they can eventually be off medicines, if at all possible. Now, the— don't get me wrong, I then got introduced, well, there was a course in Oxford called HPGG that was offered up as a, well, if you're interested, you could go on this course. And I was, well, do I really think that homeopathy is a thing? Pretty much like a lot of vets out there these days. But I really was inquisitive enough to say, well, look, I want to find out more about this. And I actually went in the first year to 2 of the, um, the course dates. I was really into it, and on the 3rd course date, um, both John and, um, Sue were down teaching already. They split the years and various other things, and, uh, a call came in for a horse that had laminitis. Now, for people out there that don't have horses, that's a really severe foot pain that can mean that they sometimes it gets so severe they can't even get themselves up. It's really, really intense discomfort. And this horse had been suffering with this foot pain for 3 or 4 days. The vet had given every pain relief you could imagine, and they literally rang the practice and said, the vet is here, um, wanting to put my horse to sleep. She's really valuable, she's carrying, um, she's a broodmare, and I really need to know, you know, is there nothing else that can be done to save, you know, both her and her future foal? And literally, they— I phoned Sue and John and said, look, go out, take the case, do your thing, you know, if you need any backup, we're here, but you know, you're a vet, just go out and examine the horse and everything else. So I went out did all the things. This was a case of laminitis, started when the first snows had fallen, and the, you know, it's particularly a frost that was there. The horse was down in the box, couldn't get up, you know, wild in the eyes, really dilated pupils, sweating, you know, and it was just a case of, well, okay, there's these options. And for acute laminitis, one of the remedies is belladonna that you mentioned earlier. And gave literally a single dose of belladonna 1M. And I gave some doses for them to repeat if needs be through the night. And I said, phone me in the morning. I've got to go down to Oxford in the afternoon.

One, just one of these tiny pillules. Yeah, 1001.

And the vet, the vet, you know, they'd already dosed it. When I saw it, it was already still suffering. They dosed it with all of the pain relief for three days. So the vet was saying, well, I'm coming back tomorrow and if she's not up, we're going to have to shoot her. And so it was one of those cases of literally came back in the morning, the vet had come back, and that I phoned the owner when the vet was there and said, okay, so where do we go from here? What's happening? He says, it's fine, horse is up, she's walking out in the paddock. The vet said it was going to get better anyway.

Of course. Of course, he said.

Of course. But for me, Far from that vet, it being a moment of revelation, for me, that was my point of, if that dose can do that and to change the course of disease, there is far more to this than just that.

Yeah, maybe the horse heard the vet say he was coming back with his gun and he's like, no, I'm fine, I'm fine.

I'm gonna walk through it.

Yeah, yeah. One little pillule, if it's a giant horse, what is the harm in giving them 10 or 20?

You don't need to, you don't need to, that's the point. Yeah, I would dose a mouse the same as I dose a dog, same as I dose a racehorse and elephant. Yeah, yeah, because You're beyond Avogadro's. You're beyond molecules. It's the, if you like, and it's very woo-woo, but it's an energetic imprint of the pathological potential of belladonna. And the body goes, aha, belladonna, let's throw it out. Okay. And by throwing the belladonna energy out, it throws the symptoms, which are very similar to to belladonna. Yeah, the sweating, the dilated eyes, the intense pain, hot, feverish, things like this. And that's how it works. I always tell of a— to try and get people to understand this, because it's a very difficult concept until you get it and you go, oh, that's pretty simple. It's kind of like a distraction, if you like. So, you know, the story of the princess and the pea. Okay, so princess lies on a bed and said, oh, I'm not comfortable. There must be something that's making me uncomfortable. Okay, because there was a pea, a pea, tiny pea like this under the bed. Okay. And so the courtiers go, oh my goodness, the princess is not comfortable. We will put on another blanket, which is like allopathic medicine, which is not actually treating the disease. It's just, it's treating something else, but not the core the curative core of the disease. So they put another layer, yeah, we call it an anti-inflammatory, call it an antibiotic, call it whatever it might be. Okay, so, and that doesn't work. So they put another, and that doesn't work. And they put another, eventually she's up there on top of 12 mattresses. And she's still saying, the royal person can still feel a pea. And so all the doctors who've put all these mattresses there, and this is exactly what Bren just described, she's on top of this, she can still feel it, she can still feel the pathology, if you like, and so the doctors are dismissed, the courtiers are dismissed because she's still uncomfortable. The homeopath comes along and says, Your Royal Highness, do you mind just coming down for one second? And so he lifts that original mattress and he puts a golf ball without her knowing under that original mattress. Okay. And he says, right, Your Majesty, you can climb back onto the bed. Okay. So she climbs up and she says, ah, I can feel what's wrong. Before it was just an indistinct sensation. And now I can actually feel what's wrong. So what she does, she, i.e., curing yourself, she lifts up the bottom mattress and takes away the golf ball. And while she's at it, she just takes away the pee. I think that is a really good analogy.

That's how—

for how homeopathy works. Now, you can go through days of workshops and go through all the detail and what have you, but that for me encapsulates it.

And that's what we need to say. It's not us curing them, it's us trying to give them the instruction to cure themselves.

Totally.

Yeah, I love that. I mean, all curing comes from within the body. Everything we do, like, Barb, you know, maybe antibiotics that give you a good gee-up if you need it. There is hardly, you couldn't name a single medicine that cures you. Like, there's managing of symptoms to give the body enough of a rest that you can rehabilitate lying on your hospital bed and heal your broken bones together or whatever the issue is. And all that curing comes from within. I love that idea. There's two things I really want to know about. I'm only going to get one done here. We'll get one done on Patreon. I want to know Bell No Souls, vaccine No Souls. Let's do Bell No Souls because, Brad, you labeled Bell— you spoke about Bell No Souls, Brad. And then we'll do vaccine No Souls, Nick, in Patreon.

Okay.

It's a safer place to talk about the stuff we won't talk about. Bell nose aids, Brad, what the hell are they? Everyone's talking about them at the moment. I can see it is popular enough lately. What are they?

So the bell nose aids, literally, I don't know why Nick's gone off. Nick has gone off.

Oh, he's back. He's back.

All right. You went off.

Yeah.

Yeah.

On you go, bell nose aids in a couple of minutes.

Something's happening to your signal, Nick, because it's for me.

Yeah, we were okay. It's pretty strong. We were chatting away. We were having fun there.

Right, bowel nosades.

Yeah.

So a lot of work was done around the end of the First World War into the flu epidemics and lots of post-trauma around the, in the 1920s following the First World War. And all of the flu issues. And a couple of guys, especially the Pattersons, working out of the London hospital, I believe it was the British Homeopathic Hospital, and they basically said, okay, well, we would normally give remedies, but we've got so many people that we need to treat, and we're starting to see that there's commonality between some of them. But there was this whole thing about taking feces and seeing what bacteria were in the feces of these sick individuals, a little bit like we're doing these days with looking at the microbiome. And what they discovered was that actually the thought of Feeding back the feces to individuals is a little bit foul. I know there's the story of the German trenches of giving back a, a microbiome that has a strength of a certain bacterium that stops dysentery. But from a point of them seeing, well, if there's these number of symptoms, we can give this particular culture back to those individuals, but potentized and that covers off those and they were getting the same results as if they had prescribed a remedy. And so within that, what they did was they looked at those prescribed remedies and saw that there was groupings that overlapped the one, or rather the one Balnosea overlapped a number of remedy groupings and they started to associate those. So but it helped at a deeper level to where you'd got maybe a sticking point where the remedies weren't working on their own to actually push those cases on. So whether that's more of a going back to the seal and heal scenario, whatever it was happening, those bowel nosodes were being used in a quicker format because there was an overlap as well, they could basically say, okay, you're grouping into that excess reaction, you know, with these particular predispositions to skin problems. Bang, here's your Balnosode. They were getting resolutions. So there's a lot of work, and those were then published in the 1930s, and those papers are still there. And that's actually The basis around which a very sort of crude overview of those, um, the book by John Saxton on the Balnosodes, um, he looked at that, he looked at some of the modern terminology for some of those bacterium. There was basically, it was their exploration into changes within the microbiome and how that could give. And there is one little gem more, which is it was discovered if you gave, so say Pulsatilla was associated with a bowel nosode called Mutabilis, if you gave Pulsatilla, you've got the same gut changes that you'd expect out of a Mutabilis patient. So that was the thing. So, you know, those other associated remedies that you could actually, they didn't have to be sick. You gave a healthy individual pulsatilla, you could elicit a bowel change within those guts.

That would be a great study to do, wouldn't it?

Yeah. And that's where bowel nosodes truly came from.

That is nuts. But we're out of time. Okay. Somebody asked up on the page, where do you start? Listen, these little boxes come with little instruction booklets and you plot away. The guys are going to give you tips. I'm going to plug Lisa Hansen's book because I found it extremely, extremely simple to read and understand. And it's in sections. So there's a section on homeopathy, a section on herbs, a section on bits and bobs. So that was a great start. Lisa Hansen is a phenomenal vet for this. Guys, where would you recommend people start to do first steps?

I've got a couple of books which you saw me wandering around in my army shorts. Just now. But this, this, uh, yeah, exactly. Okay, so you can see this is, this has seen a lot of action over the years. This, this is, this is a really, really good one. It's by a really good friend, Dr. Hamilton, and it's called, for, for the podcast people, Homeopathic Care for Cats and Dogs: Small Doses for Small Animals, and it really is a magnificent, um, introduction. Okay, the first section of the first third of the book is about what is homeopathy, what does it do, why do we use it, and all this stuff. So that's, that's there. Another book by, by a recently deceased godfather of homeopathy in the UK, uh, Chris Day, Veterinary Homeopathy. Yeah, Veterinary Homeopathy.

I didn't get that.

And Uh, God bless Chris Day. He did a vast amount of work, uh, for the promotion, and, and he taught Bren and I back in the day. Okay, and it's called The Homeopathic Treatment of Small Animals: Principles and Practice. The Homeopathic Treatment of Small Animals by Christopher Day. Okay, and those would be the, the two books that I would go straight to Lisa. Lisa's book as well is very, very good. That would be an even smaller— because this, the, the homeopathy section is what, 12, 14 pages or something like that. So yeah, that's where you start, guys. I hope we have whetted your appetite.

I think so. Go to YouTube, Chris Day. There's videos of Chris Day, who's the godfather of this, and he's been— he does interviews. And you type Chris Day into YouTube and you get all these videos of him doing his thing and people applying his, his— there's a little bit of scandal there as well. So just check out that YouTube stuff on Chris Day. It's great. So you'll get a few bit of background on him. And I assume that there's good homeopathy and bad homeopathy when you're buying online. How could you possibly know what you're buying?

Yeah, we'll talk about nosodes and where they come from and what you're buying and what you're trying to achieve with them. Over on Patreon. I think that's brilliant because not always do you want to use a vaccine nose-ode if you're going to be using it for fighting the disease. So we'll talk about that and what a vaccine nose-ode actually is. I think you've got to understand, yes, there's a degree of welfare involved in this and making sure that pets are, you know, welfare is held as the the highest point. We can't allow animals to suffer, and so it's really important that we're not, you know, giving them time without other supports if they are in discomfort. And I think that's where an understanding of the anatomy and physiology is so important. Understanding about behaviors and what to expect out of an animal is so important, and that's why often it's still left in the hands of vets to do veterinary homeopathy. I think there are some great homeopaths out there that have some great insights, and I think that is absolutely founded. There are some great courses for owners, for pet parents to, to go on. There's some great ones. Chris Auckland has just released the course.

Um, what's the name?

What's the name? Um, and that is, well, if you just look up Chris Auckland and go for homeopathy for pet owners.

Hey, cool, I'm gonna do that.

So, um, but it's just being careful that, you know, if you're seeking advice from a homeopath, have they got veterinary training? If, you know, for a third party to be treating your pet, you really want that trust that they know what could be the other pathologies going on.

Yeah. Can you, you can't do homeopathy for pets if you're not a vet. Is that not true?

You can do it for your own animal.

You're allowed to treat your own animal. You can't pimp yourself out as a homeopathist. Okay. Can you do that in human medicine? Can I be a homeopathist for humans and not be a doctor?

Let's call them a homeopath. It's a lot easier. And it stops your lips. So, so you can become a homeopath.

Absolutely. Okay, interesting. Okay, cool.

And then you see people, people are able to control their own level of discomfort and tell you when it's hurt.

Yeah, yeah, right.

Whereas animals can't.

Yeah, cool, got it. Okay, let's do vaccine no-solds over on Patreon because I need to learn about that. I can't say I'm too clear about what bell no-solds are, but I had to jump out and get that book. Um, is there a book on bell no-solds? Oh, that's the John Saxton book. Okay, okay, I'm clear. Okay.

Okay.

All right. So that's— guys, that was cool. I bet you people like that. So guys, we're Patreon, on patreon.com. We are Raw Pet Medics and price of a cup of tea each month. If you can, we really appreciate it and we can keep doing this every single week, but we love doing it anyway. So if you can, great. And if you can't, not to worry. We're definitely going to be back next week with some other riveting topic. So thank you, gentlemen. No last words that need to be said?

Okay, goodbye. See you next week.

Absolutely.

See you guys. All the best.