Dr. Conor Brady, Nick, and Brent break down Royal Canin's new Fresh Health Nutrition dog food and find it violates the definition of fresh: it's cooked, frozen, and loaded with preservatives. Brown rice is the first ingredient, the fat content could trigger pancreatitis, and at £12 per kilogram it's mostly water.
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2 today?
Yes. And we're live.
I'm alive. I'm alive.
Oh no, we didn't get 30s. We're now, it's a Tuesday evening, but I mean today, I mean late teens maybe, but in the house feels very warm when you don't have the window open.
We had 30 today, I reckon, down in Slough.
I think we were expecting 30 at the weekend, but I think down in London area it was a wee bit warmer.
Savage.
Bless him, bless him.
Yeah, guys, you, you have just discussed— you have just, uh, uh, come on board while we are discussing meteorological and, uh, temperature-related issues.
Phenomena.
We are the Raw Pet Medics, and in fact, we are the only Raw Pet Medics in the whole world. We are the global leaders in what we do, boys.
Raw Pet Medica, that'll be the name of our book.
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's so good. Uh, you can, you can reach us on YouTube, you can reach us on 'cause we do a Facebook Live. You can reach us on podcasts. Please join in. And if you would like to support us, we do the thing on, what's it called?
Patreon.
Patreon. Patreon. Yeah. So sorry.
Let's call the whole thing off.
Yes.
Yeah.
Patreon. Patreon. And yeah, if you want to support us, that would be absolutely amazing. Just, you know, the price of a pint, the price of a coffee once a month will allow us to keep the lights on. Our sound guy has not been well for the last 4 weeks or so.
So we want to buy him some flowers.
We're not good. We're not good on our podcast. We're not keeping up. But there is a reason for that. It's not us. It's poor old Pete is not well.
So, so if we can get up to €10 this month, we are going to buy a big bouquet of flowers and test those. So come on, guys. Guys, can I just crack in here with something awful that happened to me today? Not entirely related to what we're talking about tonight, but is the introduction ever? I had to go talk to the GP today. My mum's on statins and I believe she's probably suffering a few side effects. She's on lots of different things. I mean, she won't mind me saying, but because she doesn't listen to the show. But anyway, so I wanted to go to the GP and said, look, you know, I suspect that she's feeling the brunt of her statins being doubled recently. And I just wanted to know, you know, And you have to be really careful when you're talking to somebody like that. It's the same as when people are talking to vets, when you know you have, let's face it, an edge on them when it comes to talking about nutrition, most likely with most conventional vets, you have to be careful because you've got to keep them on side and you want to work with them and you don't want to insult them. And there can be a bit of ego at play, so you have to be careful and tentative. So I went in with my tail between my legs and my mum's sitting there going, I don't know why I'm here, there's no reason for me to be here. And she's not helping the matter at all. And then the GP He goes, so what's, what's going on? And I said, look, you know, she's suffering these symptoms here. And, you know, I'm just thinking, why did you go on these in the first place? Because are we on the same page about something? You know, about the whole saturated fat stuff was nonsense. He goes, oh yeah, that was just pure nonsense. I said, yeah, eat butter and all that. Now even Time magazine saying that. Yeah, yeah. And you heard the stories about Ancel Williams and then the breakfast cereal people and all pushing the cholesterol thing and eggs. And so he goes, oh, absolutely. Yeah. So there was no link between cholesterol and heart disease and that kind of stuff that you eat. And he goes, no, not at all. No. So I was like, okay. I said, this is going great. I was ready. I had pages, I had references to show him. I was like, oh, this is easy. That's part one. So part one is we are agreed that the whole cholesterol stuff was nonsense. And then at the end of all the nonsense of cholesterol, which the medical industry hasn't been able to shake off, which is why your mom thinks skim milk is healthier than whole fat milk. That's why they're eating less fat. They're eating more sugar, which drives cholesterol in the body. So anyway, he agreed on that bit. Then I said, great. So why is she on double the amount of statins? They said, well, stroke prevention. And I said, stroke prevention in relation to what? So I said, like, are you saying cholesterol? Like, where is this cholesterol coming from? I said, do you understand that most of cholesterol— not do you understand, but whatever nice way I said it— comes from the body? 80, 90% is coming from the body. He's like, yeah. So I said, okay, so where's all that cholesterol coming from? Where's all the inflammation that's causing this? Why? What's the— what's the cause? That goes, I don't know, but the statins are clinically proven to absolutely be the most effective solution for stroke prevention. And I said, look, I have to stop you there because the data that you say exists doesn't exist. Those trials didn't include 75-year-old-plus people. There's no studies of 80-year-old-plus people in stroke prevention. So I said, you're talking about a younger population. Those studies are in for massive issues. And they started off on the back of the cholesterol bullshit. Let's lower cholesterol. And now they're talking about stroke prevention. I said, they've got major questions. I said, is there any way we'd be able to lower the statins and just use something else for stroke prevention. Anything else? I'm sure there's plenty of other drugs that we can use.
Bit of aspirin might not be a bad idea.
15% is the figures you get if you're under 70. They're the sort of protection you get. Aspirin gives you 12%. So I'm like, I'm sure there's a plethora of things we can do. Anyway, it was a struggle. And then I said, and another thing, 25% for a brain is cholesterol. And I can see it's a little she's just not firing on all cylinders. She's out of energy. And I said, statins are shown to lower cholesterol. And when people come off, what studies show, their cognitive abilities come back straight away. And when they're re-challenged with statins, it goes down again. So for anybody out there with an elderly person who's suffering that cognitive decline where, where it's not Alzheimer's, it's not dementia, it's just an oldness. It's like suddenly she can't sleep, she can't recharge her batteries, she can't think straight. I can see it in her. And the second little sting from statins, which the GP didn't know about, was that they block your ability to synthesize coenzyme Q10. And you might Mitochondria need cholesterol and coenzyme Q10 to produce energy. So she's double screwed. 50% of people that take statins drop them after a year. And the top side effects are cognitive decline, energy loss, muscle aches. I said, like my mom, that's, that's my mom. I said, isn't it worth a look? I said, these aren't necessary for stroke prevention. They're not there. We definitely don't want to talk about cholesterol. So I said, let's ramp up the cholesterol in her brain. And I said, add in a few nutraceuticals like Coenzyme Q10, which statins block. And he says, but I don't know anything about Coenzyme Q10, so I'm not— I don't do nutritional side of stuff. And I'm like, I said, okay, well, you do know about statins and you should know that they block Coenzyme Q10. So you're trying to be nice, but I'm like, so here's the clincher of the point. Here's the story. I said, okay, you can't do that. Fair dues. He admitted it's not my field. I don't do this. I said, okay, so we'll just chat to a functional nutritionist or somebody that does and we'll, we'll, we'll go that way. And he goes, well, I'd only— I can only refer on to someone who I trust. And I don't trust functional nutrition, uh, science. And I'm like, oh, I said, okay, quite a big field. I said, so I said, we're in a catch-22. You don't study nutrition and you can't refer me on to someone that does study nutrition. And he goes, well, there's a consultant, a cardiologist, something something. I said, dude, I just want to speak to a dietitian that understands nutrients are important. Vitamin C, vitamin D, launch up B complex, get the D vitamin D levels up, like basic ground level stuff to make sure it's not just that. And so I was in a catch-22. I walked out with him, admit he fairness to the guy, he said, we'll stop the statins for 30 days and see. So I've got 30 days to get these new— get— yeah, not a lot of time. And, and then the final bit was, how are we going to measure this, that she's improving? And he said, oh, your family will tell you, John. And I said, no, no, no, I said, you can do some tests here— inhalation, exhalation test, quick mind test that you would use for dementia, muscle test. There must be some tests we can do as a benchmark. And he's like, no, that's not really like— we don't— I said, well, you know, a functional nutritionist would do that. Yeah, you can't get referred on. So it just got frosty and very, you know, a bit of a shake of the hand. But I said, do you want me to send you on the studies that I'm talking about? And he's like, yeah, yeah, send them to the front desk. And I was like, grand, that's where they'll finish. That's where they'll finish.
Anyway, there must be some functional, uh, medicine practitioners on the human side out there listening to us right now that have this conversation with the medical profession every single day that they are battling uphill because for some reason there's only certain members within the medical profession that actually get it with functional medicine. And I'm coming across this in the veterinary side that people are just going, functional, what, what's that? And you're like, oh my God, surely you've heard of metabolomics. Oh my God, what's that? So what we should really be doing is definitely asking anybody who's out there on the human side who are doctors who are doing a lot more functional medicine should be getting in on that act and actually contacting the medical profession and putting their heads above the parapet.
Yeah, I printed them out, all this, and I didn't hand it to him. And the last thing I printed out was this front page of Time magazine because I thought he was going to say something saturated fat. And in the bottom I wrote for him, check out, um, uh, Asim Malhotra on YouTube.
Yeah, cardiologist.
What Big Pharma doesn't want you to know about statins. Check out that hour for the most esteemed cardiologist you have in the UK and the most esteemed cardiologist in the US. And he explains the science behind statins, where it all comes from, the money involved, the figures. This will give you to get an extra days of extra life. How many people do we have to give statins?
89.
These GMs, it's like, yeah. So listen to that hour on YouTube. What Big Pharma doesn't want you to know about statins. That's my bit done.
Okay.
I've got people like—
he's got Gundry. I was going to say Gundry, the longevity You need to read that back to front and sideways.
He's a good doctor.
And he is a cardiologist who's given up cardiac surgery because he feels that he can do more good with food than he can with, with, with, with, with more involved intervention.
And let's go more mainstream. You know, you've got, you know, all of the people doing the Zoe app and everything else these days. They're all really going on board with that for the, you know, diabetes, the type 2 diabetes and diabetes control.
Yeah.
You know, so that they're all quite happy to talk about that. He's on the edge of talking about functional medicine with some of his stuff.
So yeah, yeah, yeah.
The other one is Iver Cummins, C-U-M-M-I-N-S, Iver, who you'll see on YouTube and on podcasts and what have you. He's, he's— I think he's written a book in about 2014, which is— which started him on his journey into looking at what the medical profession actually saying about all these very, very common things. And so I would put a point anybody towards him, Ivor Cummins on cholesterol. He is a systems thinker. He fixes companies when they are going wrong. You know, he's a bright, bright, bright boy. And he applied this incredible mind of his to cholesterol. Does it make sense? Is it logical? What the studies are showing? And he came to the conclusion that no, it is rubbish and statins are to be avoided in almost every case.
Yeah, yeah. Particularly if you're having a few side effects, which, you know, up to 50% of the people that take them do. So, guys, tonight we were to talk about this wonderful, wonderful news that the world's biggest candy company and biggest pet food producer is now producing—
the biggest candy company?
Mars. I think we should name them. I think Mars, because there is a known association. Mars and Nestlé. Well, they're both—
place your bets. Who's the biggest? Nestlé is probably the biggest candy company. They've been around possibly longer.
Yeah, bigger reach.
Go on, do the search. Ask your AI. Go on.
Okay.
Who makes more candy?
Okay, so listen guys, just to cut to the chase, because this is a lot of piffle going on here. Royal Cannon, who is a subsidiary of Mars— Mars, you know, the very healthy Mars bars, of course, helps you work, rest, and play. Obviously have just come out with a thing called Royal Canin Fresh Health Nutrition adult dog food, and they've got a senior version, whatever that means. Senior starts at 7. We can discuss that all night. And, and, and this has hit the world by storm. I think that there are some commentators, I think Cat the Vet Dr. Conor, you were saying Cat the Vet has some words to add.
Yeah, Cat, because finally, because finally we have a fresh food created and formulated by real experts in the pet nutrition field that we can confidently recommend to clients. This isn't a move away from kibble, folks, and wet from Royal Canin. Those are still excellent nutritious choices for our pets and will remain the core of their ranges. Rather, this represents them recognizing some people are wanting to feed fresh food, fresh, a lot of inverted commas in through this that she forgot to put in. And so they are facilitating with their nutritional skill and expertise, which means owners and vet professionals can be confident that dogs eating fresh have the opportunity to be nourished in a safe and healthy way at last. Thank you, Cat the Vet. She says if anybody wants to see a review of these products, because Cat the Vet makes sure that we always talk to vet nutritionists, only listen to vet nutritionists, of which Cat the Vet isn't, that we should go and talk to and listen to the Pet Food Puzzle Guy, who is this randomer on YouTube who likes to have a rant and rave, who worked for Hill's Pet Food marketing for 30 years, but he's not actually a vet or anything. So that's who reviewed the products. That was Cat's effort at launching this. Cat the Vet is Nestlé. And so it seems like the candy companies are tentatively moving towards— so what did you think of the product? Have you got a picture of the product there, Brent?
Yes.
Can we blow that up, Brent, just so that everybody can see? And I will describe this. So we've got a a short square bag, and it's— there are 7 packs. 7 packs in there? Maybe that's one of 7, possibly. And on the front we've got a beagle, which is unfortunate because vivisection has happened a lot with such species.
Tenuous link number 452.
Yeah, yeah, but you know, feed it to lab dogs, you know. Maybe, I don't know, I don't know. I think beagles are blue and amazing. But there we go. And on the front, we've got, we've got a little window so you can see that it actually vaguely looks like food.
If you take a picture, curries, why does it look from here like there's quite a lot of sweet corn in there?
There's a lot. Well, there's, there's, um, summer, summer squash. I need to talk to you about summer squash, guys. Uh, but there's a hell of a lot of rice. In there. Long grain rice.
How much rice?
I can tell you in a second.
Yeah, yeah.
They also have a nice picture of spinach and lots of pork and long grain rice on the front because that— so what I think they're doing is they're saying, listen, this is— this product is actually made from real food, you know. Okay, what they do to it and they actually put it in a bag like that, I don't know. But which is for me, if the subtext is We've been making food out of— we've been making food-like products out of non-food.
Yeah.
Yeah. Or we're taking food and turning it into non-food.
Oh, no, to be fair, on every bag they try and make it look like they've had some food at some point has been thought about when they then squished it into tiny little bits of riffraff and then stuck it together and stuck it in a bag because they do like to paint this portrait that there is food in this bag, but not necessarily always. What is intriguing me about this particular package is the fact that there is a little area which highlights fresh. And Conor, just tell me, what is the FEDIAF regulation on fresh? What's this all about?
Okay, FEDIAF, just for those, FEDIAF is the guys who oversee and give guidelines to the pet food manufacturers in the UK. AFCO is the equivalent in the US. We have FEDIAF. So here's their term.
FEDIAF. This is 0.5.2.4.2 in the FEDIAF guidelines. You can find this and the caption is use of the term fresh in inverted commas. General requirements. The term fresh may describe substances used in pet food manufacture that have not been subjected to any treatment except maintaining the cold chain. Treatments such as cooking, drying, freezing, hydrolysis, or similar processes, or the addition of salt, curing agents, natural or synthetic chemical preservatives, or other processing aids exclude the substance from being called fresh in inverted commas. Example: Bloggo made with/produced from fresh chicken.
Okay, so they fail on that because it is cooked.
Absolutely.
They fail on that because it is frozen. Hang on, just bring it up again so I can read it, please. And they fail on that because they do probably add salt. It's not clear. They do add synthetic additives.
Salt. They added salt. Salt. Yeah.
So they fail, fail, fail. Not just once, but a number of times on the fresh in Europe. But in the States you're allowed to call it fresh, possibly. What are the AFCO definitions of fresh?
I'll find us— I'll find them. I'm sorry, I don't have it ready.
I'm sure there will be something very similar.
It will be.
For some reason they tend to copy each other quite dramatically.
Well, FEDIAF copies AFCO. I don't think it happens the other way around. Yeah, I think AFCO, who are in bed with the food manufacturers, yeah, they attend their meetings. Every single time, and they negotiate any changes that AFCO— so they sit on the board, they absolutely do. And they, you know, and AFCO might say, okay, we need a lot more zinc in the foods, and, and, uh, Hills and Mars and what have you will come along and say, well, that's going to cost us a fortune, can we just temper it down? You know, they're going to say an extra 20 milligrams, that's necessary because of the latest science, but perhaps the manufacturers would say, well, can we get away with 7? Or 5, because I couldn't say saving them a fortune.
Please. Yeah, please. And I'd like to— I'd actually, as you mentioned the US bit, guys, I think it's important to note that Royal Cannon, uh, that this, this product, uh, is being made in the US. And most important, AFCO stands for, uh, as Nick always highlights, America— oh no, uh, the Association of— I wasn't— oh God, help me out— the American Association of Feed Control Officials. Feed Control Officials. Now that word feed is very important because you would have thought it would say food officials because pets get food. But in the US they have two different classifications. There's food, which humans eat, and then there's feed, and feed is what animals eat. Now, so far not too worrying, I guess, if you're a cow and you cow food, it's called feed. But the problem is when they use feed meats to pet food, they can use anything in that. So feed meat can be for the animals— dead, diseased, dying, disabled. They could— animals that haven't been seen by a vet They can be animals that have been put down with chemicals. They can be anything— restaurant waste. They can be the grease from grease traps. Any of that highly dangerous toxic crap can be fed as feed. And so Mars is making a fresh product, in inverted commas, from pork anus that possibly, possibly diseased pork anus, if it could get any worse, has been seen by a vet.
Now, I saw proper pork cutlets on that package.
I'm sure they could have been pork anuses mashed together to make it look like a cutlet.
Oh, I see. Yeah, yeah, it's like, it's like, hey, it's like corn area in the middle there. It's not real pork.
I've just got to point out that that's in the States. In the UK and in Europe, we are a bit more stringent about what goes into pet food. But what are you saying, that all this stuff is made in the States and then they ship it over to to, uh, Europe and then distribute.
Has factories everywhere. And the question is, are you allowed sell US pet food in Europe? Well, you can sell Orijen in Europe, and Orijen is owned by Mars and they make it. So are they putting feed ingredients in there and then selling this feed product over in Europe? That is a very good question. I'm surprised you don't know the answer to that. Somebody out there is going to know the answer to that. Please help us out on Facebook or YouTube comments, guys, if anybody has insight into US feed products. And by the way, I can't— I'm not saying Mars Inc. is using diseased pork anuses in their product. I must clear my nose here about that just in case they're listening. But I am saying that feed ingredients is permitted to use dead, diseased, dying, disabled, and leftovers and roadkill and all that sort of junk. That's allowed to be a feed ingredient, and this is a feed product. So, uh, so yeah, it's another reason why the word fresh just— like, what are you— are you comparing this to the food we buy in the supermarkets for our dogs? Are you comparing that to use this you really want to stand over that because someone put a George Jetson pill at the end of it. What do you think of the first few ingredients, Brent?
Yeah, should we go? Let's, let's pull up the ingredients stack. Let me just— yeah, we'll hide behind this. Okay. That wonderful, you know, bang as soon as you go into it. The first thing that they're feeding our carnivores as our friends. I had this argument again. I can't believe I have this argument with vets that should know at least the anatomy of a dog, that actually, you know, they are carnivores first and foremost from the mouth through their intestine. There is no way that an omnivore would have a gut that's only 2.5 times its body length. There is no way that an omnivore would not be able to break up plant material by chewing side to side, you know, or even break down insects in the same way. Or, you know, it can only slash and swallow. It's not gonna be able to break down plant material, so it is not an omnivore. Anyway, that's my little hobby horse. So what do they stick in first? Brown rice. What does that mean? So if you're looking at an ingredients deck, and I know there are some vets out there that say you should not read the ingredients list anymore because they don't want you to, um, but let's say we start with reading the ingredients list. The first thing on the list in law is the thing that's greatest within the food. Now, they don't have to legally specify how much. It would be ideal if they did. It would be lovely if they would actually say the percentage of the product that is that. But the fact that it is first means that there is more brown rice in this product than there is pork. Okay? So that would be the first thing that I would mention. The second thing there. Yes, there's pork. Don't specify which. Could be cutlets. It could be anus. It doesn't specify. I'm not going to go any further than that. I'm sure somebody will pipe up from Royal Canin very shortly on our post to tell us exactly what they think is in the food. Yeah. But then guess what? We immediately switch back into vegetable matter. So we're now into yellow squash. I know that Nick desperately wanted to say something about this. He's disappeared for a moment. He's just obviously powdering his nose and can't cope with the stress. Then we're into spinach and then all of a sudden, how much limestone or other product do they have to add in for it to be next on the list as a dicalcium phosphate in there? I mean, what on earth is going on with that being so high up the list? Of ingredients.
That's a phosphate, guys. It's really important, that -ate at the end. So phosphorus, you can eat as much of it as you like. You know, your body handles it. It's normal. It's chelated if it's, if it's eaten in food. And that's the way the body likes it. Dicalcium phosphate, it's the phosphates that are causing the kidney issues in cats and now a study in dogs. A point, Bren, about the first two ingredients. Brown rice is added in dry, as rice is, you know, and the pork goes in fresh. So, and even so, that's a big difference in weight. So 100 grams of dry rice, you know, 100 grams of fresh pork means it has 75% water. It's actually only 25 grams of pork meat. So even though that pork is going in fresh, it still doesn't become the top ingredient in it. So you are getting a lot of brown rice. And so if people wanted to work out how much carbohydrates were in that product, how would they do it, Brent?
Oh, look, you've got to do it. You've got to create effectively dry matter of each in order to equate it. So you're going to have to find out what the percentage— I mean, you're usually taking out at least 60% of the weight of the pork to actually find out how much is in there. There should be on the label, there will be actually a carbohydrate, should be a breakdown of carbohydrates.
They never tell you. They won't, they won't write the carb— yeah, they'll give you—
it'll be ash, fats, and protein. Should be.
Yeah, yeah. And so you add up— they never tell you carbohydrates. It's not in your interest to know how much carbohydrates is in the food, as you would expect in a human food product. Of course, uh, they wouldn't tell you how much sugar or salt is in there. And they are allowed to put sugar in pet food, by the way, guys. And there's a test for that. I don't know why nobody's testing pet food for sugars. Um, but you add up what they give you. Okay, so they'll give you the protein, as Brent said, they'll give you the fat, they'll give you the ash, they'll give you the fiber, and then you add in about, you know, 10% for moisture if it was kibble. But, uh, in this case it's a fresh product, so you have to do maths, uh, to figure out exactly how much, uh, carbohydrate is actually—
make it sound so hard, Conor. It's not that hard. Come on.
It's actually— somebody told us off last week, said, do you think we're pick. We tried to explain to them and she goes, you spent way too long explaining to us. So I'm not going to explain to you anymore because I'm going to assume you guys know how to do that. But yeah, a lot of carbohydrates. So it's dry food dressed up as fresh food, really. And that is the sum total of their fresh offerings. So, yeah. Any thoughts, Nick? What do you think about yellow squash? What's your problem?
Yeah, sorry, I disappeared there. Let's blame it on Elon Musk. If we can just get that list back again, Bren, that's great. Okay. So my hit list would be that fish oil. There's fish oil in there. It's a fresh product. So by the time I would, I would suggest, and it's probably measurable, by the time it is defrosted and on your sideboard, that is going to be rancid. Okay. Interesting. They put vinegar. They don't specify what type. You know, vinegar is vinegar. You know, there are many different types. Now, the next one is citric acid. Now, in their literature, they talk about citric acid as being a preservative and as an additive. It's a nonessential nutrient per AFCO. No mention of the P word preservative. Okay. Now, the next one down is vegetable oil. Vegetable oil is generally recognized as rapeseed oil or as those canola and things like that, which again are rancid by the time they get to the factory, and they are very high in omega-6. They are very, very pro-inflammatory. So that is a recipe for inflaming any dog that comes in contact.
And it doesn't have to be fresh, Nick. This is a feed, don't forget. So feed can use leftover restaurant grease. How do we know what's not in there? So I'd like to know, somebody contact Mars Royal Canin and ask them, how do they ensure that there's no leftover restaurant grease, which is the most toxic substance on on Earth. How do they ensure there's none of that in their products? So vegetable oil— what do you mean vegetable oil? Can you not even tell me what type of vegetable oil? How come you can't tell me what vegetable was used in there? You know?
Okay, this is good. And then we get down to the salt. You know, Rodney Habib talks about the, the, the salt line, the salt barrier, and that salt goes in at about 0.8 to 1%. So what we can say is that everything above that line is going to be over about 1% and anything below that line is going to be less than— this is very approximate, but it just gives you somewhere to, somewhere to go. They're putting taurine in there because they've cooked the hell out of the, the pork. They're adding some vitamin C there. They're adding vitamin E. They are adding vitamin B12. They're adding vitamin— and more vitamin E and a B vitamin. Why, guys, do they need to add nutrients to a fresh product, which is, which is arguably less processed than an ultra-processed kibble? And the answer is there's not enough in what comes out of the factory. Therefore, they have to fortify it like your Rice Krispies and your Corn Flakes and things like that. Yeah, they're fortified and they're saying this is really good for you because it's fortified. No, it needs fortification because you've murdered the nutrients that are actually fundamentally there in the food. So that's— it's an old ploy and it's cynical beyond belief.
And this reflects on a point that Conor made right at the beginning, that there are so many people in the profession that cannot— still cannot get their heads around what is wrong with feeding cereals to our kids and not understanding. They're saying, what's so wrong with grains? I said, did you look at the list of fortifications they have to put on grains to one, make it valuable at all nutritionally, and then the types of stuff that they fortify them with to realize that often it's the stuff that's going to block the pathways to making them healthier. Not help the pathways because things like folic acid, you know, instead of folates, the things like the cyanocobalamin instead of it being a methylcobalamin, you know, they're just two examples. The fact that actually the vitamin E is being chucked in there, not because they're being nicey-nicey about adding antioxidants into your system, but generally because they're using them as a preservative for the food, but would then also got that whole, they just don't get the nutritional impact of those foods on our health. And that's pretty much where they're at. They don't understand they're having to add so much of this because what is the number one ingredient? It's rice. Okay. It's not the meat products that will actually engender the majority of nutrients that a carnivore would require.
And there are ingredients in there that they don't have to declare because they didn't put them in. For example, glyphosate and atrazine, which are herbicides which are used in the, in the production of grains universally around the world, but very much so in, in the USA. Um, so, so beware of that because it's—
they don't have to put in the—
mainly rice. Therefore, there are, uh, products that they use to make these things, and they aren't doing your microbiome any good whatsoever.
They don't have to list the chemical preservatives they use. They can say natural flavors, natural preservatives. They can use natural preservatives, but they can use BHA, BHT, ethoxyquin if they wish. But these are highly—
these are carcinogens.
You want to— yeah, they're rotten. If people are wondering why there's vinegar and citric acid in there, it's because they lower the pH of the product. And so that is one way to keep the baddies at bay. So it's one way to— after they've cooked the product long they still need to lower the pH of it, which is like a double way of trying to—
Well, it'll also kill off salmonella, you know.
Yeah.
You know, and the E. coli, it will, you know, acidifying with those will do that. But I think I'm not sure that this is just frozen, is it, Nick? I thought it was a fresh off the shelf. It's preserved in the bag.
No, I think it is frozen. Okay, I've got some information here. Just let me see. Uh, yeah, I have read it. I've got it all here, but where it is— formulation, nutritional goals. Uh, and they talk about— it's interesting, they talk about defrosting over 24 hours, and I reckon for a small bag like that, you'd probably be able to defrost it pretty quickly.
I think there is such a thing as defrosting it in the fridge. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Each one's about 8 ounces, I think, isn't it?
And then put it, and then put it in the bin.
Um, so storage and preparation. The food is stored in the freezer to maintain freshness and must be thawed in the refrigerator for 24 hours before serving. Now, that is not entirely clear whether you buy it frozen or you buy it fresh and stick it in the freezer. Not sure. So I can't say.
How much is this product per kilo?
Good question. Don't know.
I really want to know and I can't find it.
I can't find the retail price.
Yeah, let's find that price because then we'd be able to see how much the water is. Yeah, because water is 75%. So let's find out how much.
One 5-star review. It's doing great. The dog's called Finicky and he loves it.
Is that by a certain vet?
Yeah, this is— oh, I'm just looking. Oh, this is fun. This website's fun. This is the Mars website. The benefits of this product. Here we go. Science-based, which is nice. Science-based nutrition developed by veterinarians. I bet Duke have a vet working for them, don't they? And I believe Honey's and most other raw dog food companies. Specially formulated, guys, which is nice. Rice with nutrient-rich chicken, beef, and kale. Oh, there's a chicken recipe as well, as opposed to pork. Gently cooked— I'd like to know what that means. Crafted without corn, wheat, or soy. You had a good point there, Nick, at the start. Crafted without corn, wheat, or soy. What's wrong with wheat, corn, and soy, guys?
I thought they've been using it for 50 years.
Yeah, I thought it was awesome. Uh, ideal for every feeding style as a complete and meal. It's just— or a tasty topper, you know, for dry food. So it's just a great versatile product. Hasn't given me the price yet. I'll get there.
Yeah, I'm just waiting for it to come through as well.
Go and search on Amazon. It should tell you.
It's actually not up there. It's not for sale yet, guys.
Are we all getting excited about a product that's not even in existence? Yeah, it's not for sale yet.
It's definitely not for sale yet. It's still a hypothetical.
Is that where they're getting us all wound up about hypothetical? They'll withdraw from the market.
They're letting us get tired talking about it and then they're going to launch us and hopefully they won't have to have 5 or 10 people deleting all the negative reviews for a few weeks.
Okay, I've got a price. It's £3 to £6 for a medium-sized dog, 10 to 20 kilos, depending on life stage. Okay, that's what they're saying. That's a hell of a range, £3 to £6.
Yeah.
For a 10-kilo dog.
Yeah, for, oh no, it's for 10 to 20 kilos. So it'll be, so let's say 6 quid for a 20-kilo dog, a 20-kilo dog of fresh food would be eating about 500 grams. Yeah. Okay. So 6 quid for 500 grams.
So £12. I would say, I would say they're doing very well. I would say that 20 quid relates to a 15-kilo dog because because they put the 10 to 20 kilo bracket in, and if you try just give that amount of food to your 20 kilo dog, you'll get very, very hungry. So they tend to be the— I would have gone with 15 kilos, but even going with your one there, Nick, 500 grams, that equates to, uh, £12 a kilo for, um, a rice, special fried rice.
Um, that means that the water in that food is 9, it costs 9 quid for the 750 grams of water.
What we're going to call that number 9 on the menu.
Yeah, yeah, it's crazy. Or you could have steak and you could have chicken and you could have fish, you know what I mean? How could you possibly compare those two products as if they were going to be the same? Um, yeah, any other interesting jibes we can make about this product?
Fat, fat, here we go. Fat, fat, fat, fat, fat. So the, the crude fat on the label is 4.5%, but if you multiply that so that you've got an as-fed, i.e., you remove the water and you see how much of the 4.5% is what's, what's left of the, the dehydrated food, that turns out to 18% fat as-fed. I think that's pretty high, and I would be careful about feeding that to a dog who's had pancreatitis in the past, and I would be careful about feeding that to a dog who's been on a 10-12% to suddenly go on to this food because you're going from a 12% fat intake to suddenly go up to 18%. And that could, I reckon, possibly push you into pancreatitis.
Okay, could we just, can we just hold on? Let's just, for clarity for everybody out there, Nick is talking about those fat levels because the carb levels may predispose them towards pancreatitis.
Totally.
But fat levels, if they've got active pancreatitis, may aggravate the condition. And of course, a lot of those are pro-inflammatory oils because they are omega-6s and above, rather than being anti-inflammatory oils of omega-3s, and probably also oxidized. So there's a number of reasons. Let's not get too heavy on the fat argument. We've had this out with Mark Roberts.
Yeah, but for me, it's not the fat per se, it's the quality of the fat. And if you've got, if you've got a strong differential between a Monday and a Tuesday, that can push many dogs because they're eating so much grain, and grain increases triglycerides in the blood from Mark Roberts. That can be the final push. So I'd just be a little bit— Jodie on YouTube is saying raw, canned, and dried food packaging here in Australia has ingredients listed in multiple languages, so that would indicate it is probably shipped around the world. I can't find the country of manufacture. I'd love to know where it was manufactured.
And that's the dry food, though. Is that dry food?
This is, this is dry. Yes. Okay, let's be specific.
Yeah, for sure.
For sure.
For sure. Thank you, Jodie, though. Lovely. Great.
What else?
Moisture is 75%. That means of the thing that you buy, only 25% of that bag is the actual nutrition. Going into your dog. Not that there's anything wrong with moisture in food, you know, that meat, a steak is 75% moisture as well. Okay, they're adding beta-carotene and lutein. Okay, not an essential ingredient for AFCO, but they're adding some lutein there, which is rather nice.
Color.
And it probably will be for color, but it's good for eyes and, you know, brain health and what have you. Have we got any formulated? Here we go. Formulated for dogs 1 to 7 years of age. Now, who says— in what textbook does it say at 7 years old? So if you're, if you're 7 years old, you know, if you're 6 years and 364 days, you are an adult, and then on your 7th birthday, you become come. Senior.
What's that about?
How do you get your head around that, guys?
Because if you eat kibble, you are dead after 8 years.
That is not— that is not actually—
or you've aged so rapidly that you are definitely senior after. Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, you're dragging your ass around as a 45-year-old man. I see something. It's interesting. Ascorbic acid is kind of hard on the tummy, guys. That's the vitamin C they use. It's the cheapest vitamin C. No, they're using citric acid. They use ascorbic acid in the
