In this informal podcast episode Dr. Conor Brady chats with hosts Nick and Brent about the growing raw‑feeding movement for dogs. The conversation covers the broader veterinary shift away from routine antibiotics and early‑age vaccinations, the importance of pressure from both inside and outside the profession, and a personal anecdote about his dog Dudley’s severe gut bleed that sparked a discussion on parvovirus shedding from modified‑live vaccines. Dr. Brady and Nick outline practical ways to transition a dog from kibble to raw, emphasizing the KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) principle: start with a complete commercial raw diet from a reputable supplier, avoid DIY formulations for the first months, and use simple percentage‑of‑body‑weight feeding guidelines (2‑2.5% of body weight). They compare four transition protocols (overnight, 4‑day step‑up, doubling, and gradual fraction‑based), discuss budgeting, the cost advantage of raw versus premium kibble, and the role of raw bones for dental and joint health. The hosts also critique the lack of solid nutrient data for commercial raw diets, highlight the industry’s move toward reduced antibiotic use, and share humorous banter about accountability ladders and podcast logistics. The episode ends with a call to listeners to research suppliers, prepare a question checklist, and start feeding raw in a measured, simple way.
Chapters
Greetings and salutations.
Good evening everybody. And what's James Bond doing with us tonight, Conor?
I don't know.
Where is he?
Trying to think of something smart to say.
002.
Yeah, that's it. I was trying to think of something there. For those listening on podcast, Beren is dressed up in black and white with a dicky bow and we're not quite sure why. I don't think either of us have actually asked why you're wearing that.
Oh no, we haven't. What are you doing tonight, Beren?
It's a normal evening out. I'm just going for dinner.
He likes dressing up, but he normally keeps it to the weekend.
Way! Don't get them too excited.
So, Brent, tell us what you're doing, mate.
I am at a corporate event this evening, so I am entertaining myself with some lovely dinner and some guests from the practice. And we're going to, we've been doing a lot of forum stuff today about customer care and everything else that's included with IVC Evidencia. And it's going to be a pleasant evening tonight just to go for dinner, have a chew of the fat and literally, and then this will be another day before I return into practice tomorrow.
So good for you.
It's a good way of sharing ideas, getting across a more holistic approach. But the terminology that comes out that you hear about, you know, all the contextualized care stuff they're starting to now really get into, the individualization. They were talking about the change in neutering policies, bringing that in. They're talking about where they're going with vaccines. They've still not quite got it. So I've had a discussion with them, and that's the point. Yeah, if you're in the room, you can at least have a discussion because they're talking about this 6-month vaccination rather than early finish because they are recognizing that there are vaccine failures. So, you know, they're having a chat, you know, and that's the point. You've got to talk to them. And if you're not in the room, how can you talk to them? If you're shouting in the outside just complaining, Does that get things changed as quickly as if you're in the room?
That probably requires both approaches, doesn't it? It needs pressure from the outside with the people not picking up the ball anymore and pressure from the inside saying, we need to do it another way.
We can do it another way. That's the point. They need to be given, look, this is causing problems, but actually this is what you can do. This is the out that you've got within this. So it's been great, and I'm really looking forward to seeing the changes that they can affect when they do these things.
So they're coming over to our side, coming over to a more balanced and less— yeah, pharmaceutical approach.
Yeah, within some of the stuff, you know, all of the egg counts, they're actively from an environmental thing trying to cut down worming excesses and stuff like that. They're recognizing antibiotic resistance, they're cutting antibiotic usage. They've got down to, so I think the average when we started, probably a good 50% of cases were getting antibiotics back in the '90s. They've cut that down. I think it was early 2000s, it was still pretty high, and that's when the sort of legislation said, look, you've got to really concentrate your mind on this. And I think they got it just pre-COVID to about 20% of cases. We're as a practice, we're down below 5% of cases with antibiotics. So, you know, that's, it's doable and that's what they're working at. They really are pushing it down. That's their target is to get below 5% of cases getting antibiotics. So you've got to, you know, hats off to them. They are trying to affect changes and when they're in a bigger organization, it means that more vets are changing with them. So, you know, there's pros and cons. Don't get me wrong, it's not all roses, you know, and there's lots of other things that need to get sorted. But it is, you know, at least some things are changing.
So, good. Changing in humans too. Between, from 2014 to 2024, antibiotic usage in England has decreased by 19%. That's pretty good.
Very good. Very good.
Right in line with the UK's ambition 10 years ago to reduce community antibiotic prescription By 25%, by the end of '25. Well, there's a tiny bit to go, but that's pretty close. Pretty good. You don't hear those success stories enough, don't you not? But it's a good thing. Change happens too slow and then it happens all of a sudden. So it's good. I think pressure is needed from both sides, from the outside.
Yeah, totally.
Good to hear what you find out tonight, Brent. Find us a nice rich sponsor as well. If you see him, tell them where I'm not trying to chat up tonight. Oh, should have got some more PM there.
Uh, you know the physicist Planck?
I did have one on today, guys.
You know the physicist Planck? Back in the 1920s, he said physics moves on one funeral at a time.
Yeah, they say science moves on one.
Oh yeah, it's true.
It's true, you just— and it's— but it's proven correct all the time that science moves on one funeral at a time. To somebody at the very top who has a certain way of doing things, and they're not going to completely admit they were wrong, so you have to move them off, and then you have to wait for them to die. So it's, uh, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's very common that. But, um, it's interesting you're saying about the vaccines tonight. I told you, the, uh, Dudley had, uh, some dire, uh, episode there, um, I was calling it HGE, hemorrhagic gastroenteritis. I think it's got a new name today, but that's what I knew it as in my time in Guide Dogs. But the dog was very gut sick. Poos disintegrated during the day. And then that night I knew he was bad. I went to bed about 2 o'clock in the morning, got up at 6, and the kitchen was a disgrace. It was like a crime scene. Blood everywhere. Blood everywhere. I mean, you have a picture there, Ben, if you can share it, but it's pretty graphic for anyone that's not looking at it.
Can we just warn people first?
Yeah. Yeah.
You're eating your tea. Yeah. Yeah.
41.
I kept, I kept at the, but it was like, it's, it's, anyway, you can imagine, it's just an absolute evacuation. But the hemorrhagic bit is the bleeding, the gastroenteritis. So it's an inflammation of the, of the gut lining, which your dog is just exploding at his butt. So quite a lot of blood because a lot of capillaries there. It's very dramatic for a non-vet to look at it. It's like, oh my God. And the dog was nearly passed out under the table. He was puked and pooed all his water out. So I knew it was a desperately serious situation, ran down to the vets and thankfully they put him on a drip and saved him. He took a load of water, dog was absolutely fine after 24 hours. I swear to God, the dog is just back now. His poos took a while to come back. He's 5 days after it now and his poos are now taking shape and everything's looking fine, but he's been eating pretty good, you know. But what was interesting was what I found out about parvovirus since, and it's possible that was one of the messes outside the back that's just, that came out as bone. Can you believe that? And that was the liquid part of it for people listening on podcast. Some of it was kind of jellyish looking, kind of purpley dark red jellyish. And that was, it was the jam consistency of it that kind of, I knew what I thought it was. I think the vet thought it was parvovirus and that sent me off and I thought, ooh, okay, maybe, I don't know. I don't know what the difference might be, but I think they're pretty similar. And so, I started thinking, okay, well, he's just back from his minders because I was away for the few days and I asked the minders, I said, is there any pups by any chance in there? She goes, yes. Oh, I said, can you tell me if they've had a vaccination in the last 2 or 3 weeks? And what do you think the answer was?
Oh yes.
And I just said, okay, well, that is surely a source because these are live vaccines, modified live viruses, MLV. And as we know, with the kennel cough vaccine, shedding is definitely a thing. Even humans can pick it up from dogs that get kennel cough vaccine, if you can believe it. There's a case study of a human picking it up from a dog. So, and it happens with the poliovirus, the nasal spray, you know, there's the shedding of MLV vaccines and picking up disease on the far end is a thing. It absolutely happens. Whether it happens with parvovirus or not remains to be seen because it's not in the literature. I started talking about it online. A lot of people came on. Kennel owners are the best people to talk to in this situation. And you can see the stories where people were doing tighter testing where they would vaccinate a couple of pups and they titer tested the others and they were showing some immunity to parvovirus, not disease, some immunity. And in a way that's kind of cool, isn't it? It's like, wow, because you shed little tiny bits of attenuated, not so infectious parvo. But the point is when you get these MLV viruses, dogs can shed this like bilio for weeks and weeks and weeks. They'll just keep on pooing. So every poo in the community and parvo lives in poo, for months. You can't freeze it, you can't kill it with water, it just sits there in the poo waiting. So the question is whether that can actually infect the dog. And I urge people, I'm not going to say any more on it now because we want to talk about something else tonight, but I urge people to have a read of the last couple of parvo posts we did where we talked about the origins of the parvo virus in dogs, which popped up all of a sudden in 1978 and it popped up everywhere, which is pretty unheard of for a virus that requires contact, contact with a sick patient or contact with a bad poo or whatever. Bit of infected ground. Those viruses spread historically very slowly, decades. Aerosol viruses take about 5 or 6 years to cross the globe. You know, it's just unheard of that they would do it in a year. And the origins of that bit of stuff, that virus, is very, very interesting. I urge you to have a read of those posts. They went round very well. So that was a juicy few days to talk into that because, you know, the way you need to blame somebody when something happens, I need to blame something. And that worked for me. It totally got my attention off it, but he's back to normal.
Such a victim.
You are such a victim.
Have you not come across that? There is a ladder of— what do they call it? They call it an accountability ladder.
Oh, yeah.
And below a line where it's always somebody else's fault and it's always somebody else's.
I live there. Okay.
That's all of them. I've got to blame somebody.
It's somebody else's fault.
Everybody's doing it to me. That's all about the victim stuff. And then they talk in leadership about how you've got to be above the ladder and you've got to own some of that stuff and say, we've got to be— this is a solution. This is how we're going to get out of that situation.
That's where you go with it. Yeah, it's nice.
Somebody said they stuck that up on their fridge because they were trying to teach their teenagers some lessons in accountability. And they came down one morning and somebody had just put a big cross line through it and said, this is corporate bullshit.
Perfect.
Guys, just going back to Dudley for one second, did they test him for parvo?
Didn't test him for parvo. So I did 3 articles on parvo. The first one was my experience with it where I walked into the vets and I'm safe in the knowledge these guys don't watch anything I do online. They don't watch RPM because they would talk to me about nutrition. So I know they don't know who I am anymore. I don't— I haven't been in the vets for years and years, so I get it. They don't watch my stuff. So I— but I don't want them to think that I'm taking away from the fact that this— they helped Dudley and got him back on track. But I had that dog up on the table, and the very first question from her was, is he vaccinated? And I'm showing her— I'm trying to get my fixture to show her the pictures of the mess in the kitchen and the color of the poo. I had my samples, I had everything ready to go. And she goes, is he vaccinated? I went, Well, yeah, knowing what she meant. And he was vaccinated as a pup, but he hasn't had anything since. And I said, oh, you mean his boosters? No, he hasn't had his boosters in a while. And I said, oh, do you think this is parvo? And she goes, yeah, it could be. I said, oh, I thought like this is a bacteria thing. I thought it was like a HGE, which is Clostridium for the most part and a few other baddies. And she goes, well, then the very next question, we didn't talk about parvo anymore. I didn't know what else to think about it. And you get a bit embarrassed because I don't know what to say or do. I just want my dog fixed. And the very next question is, what's he eating? And I didn't want to say, do you know who I am? I couldn't say that. What kind of a dickhead says that? So I was like, okay, you haven't read my book then. So I was like, okay. I said, look, I said he's eating fresh food and we really don't need to talk about it. And she goes, is it cooked or raw? And I said, we really don't need to talk about this. I said, it is raw, fresh food. And that's why you haven't seen me in 10 years. And so she goes, okay, Well, and I didn't want to get into it. I didn't want to, but that was what my first article was about, was how are they the first two questions? You know, it's like, let's just get the dog fixed up. And, and, but she thinks that HGE is more common in raw-fed dogs, which I bet you is utter pants when gut disease—
I agree.
Yeah, of course it's not. It's just ridiculous, just unscientific nonsense, which annoyed me.
Did you see that meme? Uh, it came out a year or two ago, and, um, Young girl goes into the dog— into the vets with the dog and says, my dog's got HGE. And the vet turns around and says, it's probably the raw food. Okay. And then the dog goes— she takes him in a few months later and says, my dog's lame. And the vet says, oh, it's probably the raw food. And then she goes in a few months later and says, my boyfriend's left me. And the vet says, probably the raw food. Yeah, totally. Yeah, I had a common response.
Oh yeah, yeah. But it's frustrating. And I feel for other people because even though I'm equipped with this knowledge now today that I have a bit too, I'm able to, I'm able to debate those topics, no problem. I was stumped. I was kind of like, I was, I was embarrassed that I would embarrass her. You know what I mean? I didn't want to. Yeah, it's such a weird feeling. It's like I could have said it nicely. I said, look, you know, I do an awful lot of canine nutrition and so I'm very well versed in this. I could have said it nicely, but I just sat there and kind of blushed a bit and went, I'm embarrassed for you. You know what I mean? It's a very strange feeling. I just walk away going, I wish I could just write her a letter. And I probably should because I know the owner of the clinic and she's lovely and she's pro-raw, but all the vets inside are not. And so everybody in the town who feeds raw doesn't go to that vet anymore. You know, it's strange.
Anyway, tell you what, you could do— you could swab him and he would likely be still positive.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I, I think that would be a valuable exercise because— are they going to check him?
Huh? So I'm not— haven't seen him since.
Okay, okay. Because normally they would say, right, come in for a 5-day check or something like that. But yeah, but wouldn't it be interesting if it turned out that he was negative? Yeah, yeah, that would be interesting. You'd be able to close the story.
They just say it was the food then, Nick. If I don't find parvo, they just say, oh, it was the food then, it's the nasty bacteria from the food. Yeah, of which I'd say, are you going to guarantee me your dry food is bacteria-free? You know, anyway, we don't need to get into this. This is just another conversation. I just want people to check out my Facebook page and read those articles because I know they're juicy and people will enjoy them.
You're 15 minutes in. We've talked enough. They're trying to work out what HD is. I've told them.
Okay.
They want to know, are you two going to kiss and make up? And also, are we going to talk about raw food feeding?
Okay. So, Brendan, are you—
Come on, Nick's not playing ball.
Are you going to dash off to the Aston Martin at some point during this podcast? I am.
I'm going to slowly, surreptitiously just slide out of the room. Oh, okay. So you'll see my picture disappear. I'm not going to leave you viewing my bedroom for later.
I think you need to go out the window and abseil down the building.
Yeah, with your gun in your hand, so to speak. I bet you can't name James Bond's gun. What gun did James Bond carry?
Walter PPK.
Oh, very good. For a non-movie dude, that's very quick.
In a rush, I got ready. Remember, he did read the books and there were books first.
Yeah, I've read a few of the originals. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I got ready. I've got to sidle off this way because I might not have anything on below here.
Oh, please show us. That would get the viewership up.
Just show us a bit of leg. Go on. Just to prove you've got no trousers on.
Whoa! You don't want to see that. No, I don't want to put people off their dinner.
Yeah, I've got my Nike shorts. Actually, I can show you something. Ah, no, I've got— these are my favorite shorts. And the kid said one day, can you see the rip in my crotch? It's ripped all the way up my butt. Like, I mean, the crotch is about that. And I love these shorts so much that I can't stop putting them on. And now the kids, every time they get a chance, they try to rip them.
But, uh, so now they're not the ones that got the oil stain on the floor.
No, I still have them. I just can't get rid of them.
I'm just a miserable Guys, if you want to know what we're talking about, you'll have to rewind to about video number 5 in the whole series that we ever did.
Wow.
When Conor mentions about how to get out a rather disruptive stain from his crotch.
It was just an unfortunate position. But anyway, I've got lots of stains on my shorts. My other blue shorts as well.
Be very careful.
Euro Disney. I was eating a pack of olives. You know the olives in the tin. And I got a stain thing. It's like, oh no, I need to have a bib down there or something. Crotch bib for what I'm eating.
Oh dear, dear, dear, dear.
Okay, on that wonderful note, can we set you up? I think you guys need to give everybody listening a quick overview of what you think is the best way to get into raw if you're on a kibble feeding protocol. I'd start from that point and then talk about some basics and just help those guys, because a lot of people have tuned in tonight really to understand how they can get into raw. It's a big issue. You know, there's lots of vets out there maybe saying don't do it, and they are saying— and then it's super complicated because people start talking about balance and getting it all right. And so I think, you know, if you could just start with how you transition and then go from there.
That is a really good topic, Brent. Yeah, nice one. I was going to be talking about, you know, what's, what's changed in Raw over the last 25 years, but, um, we can do that and we could do the transition. Um, no, we can do the, the history of Raw in the UK, uh, another day, which I think would be an interesting conversation. Yes.
Okay. Oh, he's got— he's got a select— Too much talk about his crotch.
So, so we're going to do, uh, how to get into Raw in the first place. I think it's brilliant. And we're not going to be doing Patreon tonight, is that correct?
That's correct.
But we're okay.
Sorry guys, these guys can continue to record a little WhatsApp chat or something and then we can post that.
Or— okay, that's amazing. All right, so, so Patreon people, we, uh, thank you immensely for your support. Couldn't do it without you. But we're not going to do anything for you tonight because Bren is off abseiling down buildings and jumping into helicopters and things like that.
Cheers, guys.
Have a lovely evening, Bren. See you later, mate.
See you.
Okay, Brady, you good?
So good. It's just Elaine's away for a few days. So the kids are downstairs and I'm just saying, please don't interrupt me. And so far they've interrupted me twice. So it's very— if you tell them not to interrupt you, they'll interrupt you. So yeah. I should have said nothing. Anyway, what can you do? That's life.
It's like, uh, don't touch wet paint.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally wet.
Is it still wet?
Yes. Yeah. Okay, so, uh, do you want to go first?
No, you go first. What was the first question? Transitioning.
So it's interesting, I have just done a video, it just so happens, uh, which is on the Holistic Vet Shop, holisticvet.shop. I am going to blatantly promote it because I think it's rather good. It's 14 chapters taking you from hero— from zero to hero in your raw food journey. And so at the beginning, the first few chapters are how to start, because I think, as Brent rightly says, it's very, very important because if you can't start, everything else is academic, you know. So I think that's brilliant. So what I say is keep it simple, hence the title. KISS. Yeah, keep it simple, stupid. So very simply speaking, what I say to people is don't try and do it on your own. Find yourself a good raw food supplier who is doing completes. That is to say, there's bone and there's meat and there's organ and there's some herbs and maybe some veggies and there's maybe a bit of spirulina and a bit of omega-3 oil and all of these good things, they have done the work. Yeah, they formulated, they've created this thing, they deliver it to your door. And that, I would suggest, is the best way to do it. Now, we can talk about transitions, you know, just how you go from a raw food or a kibble to a raw food. I think that would be very valuable. But the basic thing is when you first start driving, do not try going on the motorway or going around Brands Hatch, which is a you know, it's Formula One in the UK. Okay. Start simple. Start at kindergarten in your raw food journey and don't try and do advanced, you know, aeronautics before you know what gravity is. Okay. And I think that's really, really important because people want to, you know, they're so keen to do it. But if you just take some baby steps initially and keep it really safe and within your comfort zone and in a place where the dog is comfortable, then I think that it's— I mean, it's really obvious thing to say, but that's really what— just hold back, enjoy the journey, and that would be my advice. So Conor, I'm going to say, what's your advice? And then maybe we can go, we can look at transitions. I talk to people about 4 transitions. I do it in the video so we can go into that. If you've got any thoughts on how to—
I say the same thing. I say the same thing. You can get lost in the forums online. You can join a forum that has one way of doing things and join another forum that has another way of doing things, and the two of them completely disagree. And it can be very confusing when you're new. The very easiest thing to do for definite is to get onto somebody that's already selling raw dog food. They know the industry inside and out. They want you as a customer. They're really helpful because they do this for a living. They spend half an hour with every customer washing out some of the nonsense that we all kind of carry with us and directing you to the easiest way to start off. I would definitely start off with a complete raw as well. Don't start making DIY raw dog food. There's a million opinions out there. Everyone's got an opinion, as we know, and it's quite a new field, canine nutrition. And so people can be very definite with their ideas and it can be very confusing. And some people say you absolutely you must formulate perfectly or the dog will die. And somebody else will have a different opinion and somebody else thinks you should use veg and it's so confusing. Just go for a product that's already made, relax. In fact, one of the first steps is, you know, adding some real stuff into the bowl. Don't forget, Helsinki University showed us 20% of the bowl. If you just take out 20% of the kibble, you will see health improvements in the dog. So just putting in a tin of sardines or, you know, cracking in an egg or a little bit of mincemeat that you're eating yourself, pop that in, your table scraps. And you start putting in a few little bits into the bowl so you can convince yourself that, oh, he does like this and he didn't die when he had a bit of beef mince. And so you can start off that way and wet their whistle, as they say. But talking to somebody in a shop, you know, you've got one nearby, this raw thing is, you know, exploding now. It's surely beyond 25% of the UK feeding raw dog food. And so I would definitely use the same approach. That's how I would use them for information. You're buying products off them and they'll keep you as a client because you're going to keep going back to them and they're just wonderful. They're so helpful. I've never met somebody running a raw dog food shop that I didn't like, but I probably would say that, you know. So yeah, same idea, keep it simple.
Okay, that's really, really good. I completely agree. And the thing that you can do is if you're sitting at home, you can just make a list of the top 10 suppliers and you have a conversation with them and you look at their prices, you look at their customer service, you look at the reviews and you just listen to what they're saying. And if they fill you with confidence, then they're probably a very good person to go with. And completely, I want to really support all the independent raw food retailers. Yeah, when we started, there weren't any. And now I reckon there's one in every town in the UK.
You can throw a stone to them.
Yeah, it's brilliant.
And also they can help you with your budget as well. So you can go in and budget can be an issue. If you turn around, you have a German Shepherd here and she's eating, you know, a kilo of raw dog food a day, which is a kilo of meat. You know, meat's expensive, Weetabix is cheap. That's why Mars and Nestlé make all their products on the ladder. So, um, the shops can help direct you that way. So you mightn't be able to afford to feed some of the very premium brands out there, and there's some great quality ones but they can be £8, £9, £10 a kilo. So if you come in and you're on a certain budget, a pet shop will also manage that and say, okay, well listen, this is where you might be in and around this level. We'll start you here. And if you want to improve that over time, this is how you would do it. So again, back to the pet shops with that sort of stuff. I thought you were going to say make it, write down your top 5 or 10 questions. And then when you walk into the pet shop, you've got your questions in front of you because sometimes you can get lost in the conversation and come out still a bit bamboozled. If you go in with your questions ready, they'll answer them in a heartbeat.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's really— yeah, really wise. You know, in any communication, I think going in, going in with that list of questions is really— it really focuses the mind. Because as Conor says, you know, whenever you go to your accountant and you come out thinking, oh God, why didn't I ask this? Or I didn't understand a word of that.
I don't remember the last 45 minutes.
Yeah, exactly. It's really very easy, you know, and the more important that person is, you go and see a consultant and, you know, about, I don't know, your arthritis in your knee, you will remember tops 30% of that conversation. So if you could take somebody else with you, that's a really good idea. And you have your list, and if they agree, then maybe record the conversation so you can listen to it back later. You are making an absolute, uh, an enormous change in your life and in the dog's life. So it's worth doing your homework first of all before you make the leap, because if you can make the leap as, as, as, um, risk-free as possible, you know, that the dog doesn't get loose or they don't like the food and what have you, they— talking to those people is really valuable. I think sometimes it's really good to be able to see people Therefore, the raw story is great, as opposed to listening to people on the phone. But take— I think, you know, if you just want, you know, takeaways, take your time, do your homework. If you've got friends who are raw feeding, that's really valuable, okay, because they will guide you. You know, a year down the line, you may not completely agree with that advice, but it works for them. If they've got the same dogs as you, that's a really good idea. Yeah, because if you're feeding a Yorkie, or if you're feeding a Great Dane, you know, there are different approaches. Using the raw store is a great idea because they will have 9 or 10 or 12 different varieties there, and therefore if there's a problem with the, with flavor or chunkiness— yeah, some companies do chunky, some do really pasty, and some dogs like one, some dogs like the other.
Lean products or higher calorie products for your active dogs and you don't need to think about any of that. Someone's already made the product, you know? Yeah, yeah, they've got it all there. Yeah.
Okay, that's okay. Good.
And then the transition, Nick, a lot of, again, pet shops will set you straight on all this. We're just going to fob all our work off on them. But people are worried, can we mix the two? That used to be a big question. I don't think you don't hear it as much anymore, or maybe I'm just not in that area anymore, but you don't hear it as much anymore. People used to be terrified of mixing and different digestion rates. Where are you on the mixing bit?
I'm okay as part of a transition because, you know, you could— if you go on holiday and you eat junk for a week, you're probably okay, you know, or if you normally do carnivore and then for a week because you're on holiday or you're on the road or what have you and you can't do pure carnivore, then you will compromise and you're not going to collapse because of that. So I think that dogs and humans are very adaptable and it's okay. I mean, the whole thing about you digest carbohydrates at a higher pH. Yeah, not as acid because you don't get the protein going in, which produces, which stimulates pepsin, which stimulates hydrochloric acid and all that stuff. I don't think it matters. Over a short period.
Okay, any more than it does in us. If it did, it would happen in us, wouldn't it? We wouldn't be able to mix foods, and we don't have the digestive ability of a dog. Yeah, you know, so, but I think there might be like— I remember I always remind people of the survey I did where I asked 400 dogs or 400 people, um, who changed their food over quick, and who changed as in you fast the dog, skip a meal, and then bang straight onto the new food, or do you do it gradually, you know, a spoon one meal, two spoons the next, and you build it up and you move the dog over, you know, 5 or 6 meals. And so But that was the two different ways to do it. And people are arguing, marriages were splitting up over this question. I asked, and there was 200 people in each group, and I got unbelievably 10% in each group saw a little sickness. So it didn't matter if you did it slow or fast, for some reasons, some dogs, okay, 1 in 10 might see a bit of an issue because if you've been feeding dry food for a long time, particularly if you've got a chronic gut issue under there and that's why you're changing over, some people just launch straight into raw and hope it'll fix it. You got to tread a little bit carefully sometimes because the road isn't great. So slow down. So I think there can be a little bit of a hiccup, but very rarely. And I tend to do it slowly. I no longer do the fast route. I just tend to, here buddy, you like beef mince? Yeah? You want a little bit more? This dog loves beef mince. And then suddenly I know the beef product is going to be okay. So I tend to go with the slower approach, but whatever floats your boat. I don't think anyone can know. And so far we haven't seen any reason to not do a bit of mixing for a while, if you like. Remember, 20% of that kibble. Just take 20% of the kibble out. Your dog's going to benefit in exchange for a real biologically appropriate food like raw dog food.
Excellent. I think this is a really good time to say don't get your mints from the supermarket because it doesn't contain any bone. Yeah, because people don't like crunchy mints. Okay, so I have heard stories of the husband coming home, looking in the freezer, finding some nice mince, chucking it in a pan and devouring it.
I bet it was lovely.
Giving the dogs a beat. Yeah, even though it had a bone content.
Yeah, a couple of pints needed there, I think, to dodge those pieces. Yeah.
Okay, so I'm just going to say, don't get your mince for any length of time from the supermarket because it doesn't contain those things. However, if you're stuck the weekend and you can't contact your supplier, then by all means go to the supermarket. You might want to just lightly put a bit of heat through it, or if you've got time, you freeze it and then unfreeze it. But frankly, I think you can get away with it. Yeah, because, because it tends to be a very, very clean product and what have you. So even I always say everything has to go in the freezer for a week before it goes in your dog. But in that kind of circumstance, we've done it before just to tide you over a Sunday, for example.
Yeah.
So that's okay.
But what's in the supermarket food that freezing is going to kill? I mean, Salmonella isn't killed by freezing, and there's no worms in the supermarket meat.
Well, there might be. There might be.
I guess that's what Doddy eats. I have to say, like, I'm in the DIY kind of bit now because I mean to buy the raw and sometimes I remember and sometimes I don't. So a lot of Duds' diet is beef mince, chicken thighs, honestly, and Power Paste, the product that I have there, that's all the organ meats and bits of veg and all that kind of stuff, all the tail end ingredients. That's his diet. And he eats ferocious amounts of that. I mean, I mean, sardines, that kind of stuff goes in. Maybe I'll buy turkey instead of chicken some days, but I'm dependent on the chicken from the butcher that I'm getting. And it's— but that's his diet. So I feed supermarket food to my dog, butcher food, supermarket food rather than rather than complete. But I'm— I'm—
Yeah, but what about bone and what about organ? That's— see, that's the problem. If you get it, if you get it from the supermarket, it doesn't contain bone, doesn't contain chicken.
Yeah, chicken thighs do.
You see, not a lot of liver in chicken thighs.
No, but Power Paste has all the organ meats and stuff.
Oh, you know what I mean?
I use that. Because I can't go looking for liver, heart, kidney, spleen, you know, where are you going to get tripe? It's gross. And so that's what I use that for. It's got all the tail end ingredients that you can't find. But the large part of his diet is for me, chicken thighs. And also what I love about chicken thighs, besides the fact that they're a very cheap cut of meat, I get organic outdoor reared chicken thighs. They're big fat chunky things and you can just pull the fat off the outside. The fat just peels off like a lid. So I want to keep him very lean because of his back. And so I reduce the fat content down. I buy lean beef mince and I get this and I pull the fat off and I'm just left with all this kind of chicken fat that I don't really use. But that's— he loves that. And he has— I put out his meat separately sometimes to see what meat he goes for. It's very interesting. Like, you think your dog's an absolute pig, they just go for the very first thing. But all taste trials will show you dogs have preferences for certain things and they definitely, surely go for the bits they like first and then leave the bits. Like, for Dudley, he will always leave pork on the ground. He'll come back to it and he'll try to choke it down and he'll have a bad poo after it. But pork is not— doesn't work for Duds for some reason. But that's the DIY stuff. I'm probably getting ahead of myself. I don't need to freak people out.
Okay. Is that not expensive though? Yeah.
Like, you know, he's a 13-kilo dog. If you think about it, chicken thighs cost from my butcher €3.80, £3.20 a kilo. That's half the price of Bella and Duke. It's, you know what I mean? It's a third of the price of Paleo Origin honeys. The Power Pace is a bit more expensive, but it's only 10% of the diet, 20% of the diet. So like it's actually much cheaper when you do the DIY thing. But like, I don't need to freak people out because if there's newbies listening, we had quite a lot of people respond to the thing tonight. We should probably just keep on keeping it simple. How much, how much do you know? How do you know how much to feed, Nick, to a dog?
Okay, so I go for the super, super simple. People, because otherwise you can get tied up in knots. So I'm just going to emphasize, do not do DIY for the first 3 to 6 months.
Don't bother.
Do not. Yeah, but when you— like, like I say, when you first started driving, you stuck to the easy roads. Yeah, do that for the first 3 to 6 months.
Definitely, definitely.
Um, uh, and DIY, for those who are unfamiliar, it means do it yourself, means you are creating that diet. Now you can do that, and the chance of getting— having problems is, i.e., excess and deficiency is low, because if you give variety, the dog's body will sort that out. You know, the variety and the dog's body will sort out what they actually need, as they've been doing for 45 million years. You know, that is, that is the bottom line. If feeding dogs was complex, the gray wolf which turned into the domestic dog would not have made it. Yeah, because they just eat whatever they can get hold of. Yeah, yeah. And so, so again, that's why we call it KISS— keep it simple. So I'm just gonna— we've got 6 minutes to go, so I'm just gonna say transitions. Okay, this is quite a biggie because people, people have a different approach to this So for me, and I'd be interested to hear any variations on your simple, your simple method as well, Conor, but for me there are 4, maybe 5 different approaches. So number 1 is the overnight. This is the cold turkey approach. Yeah, on a Monday you feed kibble for the last time, and on a Tuesday and for the rest the dog's life, you feed raw, a good variety of great raw food, starting with a commercial complete. Okay. The second method is the 4-day method. Yeah. Where you go 1/4 raw, 3/4 whatever you're feeding before, and then you go half and half, and then you go 3/4, and then on the fourth day you're there. Okay. I think a lot of owners like that because it just takes the— takes that apprehension I will also say, and I say this on my video, everybody, absolutely everybody, I've never met anybody for whom this doesn't pertain. Everyone's terrified when they start with raw or when they give their first chicken wing or, you know, any kind of new introduction. It is terrifying because you've been propagandized for the last 60 years by the raw, by the kibble manufacturers. Okay. And to come out of that kind of safety of ultra-processed food, which is, which is, which is perverse in the extreme. Yeah. Is quite difficult.
And going against, against your vet's wishes.
And going against your vet's wishes.
Yeah.
That's really difficult because you're like, oh, what am I doing? Okay, so first one is overnight. Second one is the 4-day method. The third one is for me is I really love this and it's called the the doubling method, we'll call it, yeah. And what you do is on the first day you add just 1 teaspoon of the new food, okay, and that's really, really good because if you're gonna— if anything happens, you only have to row back from 1 teaspoon of new food. But first day, 1 teaspoon. Second day, 2 teaspoons. Keep attentive here. Third day, 4 teaspoons. 4th day 8, and then 16, and then 32. And it means that you, you come in really slowly, okay? If you're looking at this, you come in slowly, but you increase quite quickly once you know, once you've done those 2 or 3 days of quite a small quantity, then you just go double, double, double, double, and within 5 or 6 days you're there, okay? So I think that's really, really good. I use it a lot because I see a lot of sick dogs, and we have to be quite tentative when we're bringing in new foods. Okay. And then the final one is do what you like, but don't take too long about it. Yeah, it's like, I think he's going to need 10 days, so I'm going to divide his transition into tenths. I'll go 1/10, 2/10, 3/10. Good for you. Or the classic is I've just bought, you know, 300 kilos of Hill's finest kibble and what am I going to do with that? Okay, so you could say somehow you've got to, uh, I exaggerate, you will have bought a 15-kilo bag. Okay, yeah. And so I would say with that, okay, finish that off, and as you're coming to the end, then we'll start doing the transition. Okay, because, or even better, take it to the dog pound and give it to them.
Poison somebody's well with it.
Yeah, yeah, just, yeah, it's, it's It's ultra-processed food. It does you no good. I started many years ago with a list of why not to feed raw. I got to 37, and the frustrating thing was every month I would think of another reason why not. And so I never finished the thing. Yeah, I must, I must produce it. Yeah.
100 reasons not to feed raw. That's what you should be aiming for. It's a good YouTube video.
Yeah, but if you've got to do 2 or 3 slides on all of those, you'll be there all the day.
Yeah, yeah.
But maybe you could.
Yeah, yeah, we should do it. We should do some sort of a game where there's 3 of us sitting around and we each have to think of a reason not to feed raw. Oh yeah, good one. That's a good one. 5 seconds on each answer. Oh yeah, that's good. I think we get to 100.
Okay. Yeah, I think we would. Okay.
So regarding amounts, I mean, you know, quantities.
Yeah. Yeah. What's your Have you still got a formula like put your dog's weight in and this is how much to feed?
Yeah, I still have that on dogsfirst.ie, but I have something amazing coming. So I'll save the big reveal. But the simple maths is to go by the weight of the dog and just work it out. And the figure is 2 to 2.5%. That's quite high. So you're talking about 2, 2.2, 2.3% of their body weight as an adult. That's how much a dog will need. And so, you know, if you go with the figure 2.5, if your dog weighs 20 kilos, you know, then you just go by 2.5% of that. So it's like 200 grams by 2.5, which is 500 grams a day. That is very simple because obviously 500 grams of fatty beef mince is very different to 500 grams of chicken breast, which is very different to 500 grams of cabbage. It's all about the calorie content of the food, but you don't need to think about that Guys, you don't need to think about this any more than you think about it with the children. You know, how many calories does Holly eat every day? I haven't a clue. I know she doesn't eat green things or orange things or anything with color, and that's it. She eats meat and she eats potatoes. That's all this kid eats, and anything pasta related. So, you know, I don't know where she gets her calcium from. I don't know if she's getting enough manganese. I hope she is, you know, but why would my dog be more complicated or precious than my kid. If that was important, the prenatal classes, it will be when your baby comes off mom, this is what you must feed her every day or her fingers will fall off. And it's like, we don't hear that. You just mash pear puree with what? How much potato could I put in this? How much do you eat spinach?
No.
Do you eat broccoli?
No.
Nobody eats broccoli. And then so, and that's how you feed a baby and you plod through and they're absolutely, be fine. So it's the same for your dog. I think the chances of your dog showing serious mineral deficiencies are about as likely as your child showing serious mineral deficiencies. We are, a lot of us, mineral deficient. Irish and English people are not eating enough omega-3, zinc, magnesium. Those three are always deficient, whereas Italians are eating more omega-3 because of the lovely good oils that they're eating. We don't eat that stuff and we should as island nations, but we don't. So So there is small deficiency and we would benefit from taking a little omega-3, but it's not life and death stuff at the moment, you know what I mean? Creaky joint. Okay, take a bit of more omega-3. So that's how much worry I would place on it. Not more or less than I'm placing on the kids. So the amount of food, that's what I would go by, 2.5% initially as adults, as pups, there's a little bit more maths involved in it, but most people are switching over adults for the moment for pups, just reading articles.
Don't need to get bogged down. Okay, I'm gonna trump you on the simplicity stakes because—
Oh, interesting.
Yeah, you always need to go for the simplest approach because if you can't get your head around the simplest approach, you're not going to be able to get the rest. Yeah. So yeah, and I always say you can't read Shakespeare if you can't read Peter and Jane. Yeah, it's like, you know, the, you know, Peter likes— Peter pats Pat the dog. Peter likes Jane. Peter and Jane are going for a walk. That kind of thing. Okay, no, no, let me give you more.
It's really good.
It's really good. Let me fill it up. Okay, so what I say to people is I say 2 to 3%, okay, which is very similar to yours, slightly more generous. And the thing is, the easy way to think about this is, right, so you've got a 20-kilo dog. Okay, so what is, what is 1% of 20 kilos? Here's the trick. You just add a zero. Okay, so 1% of 20 kilos is 200 grams. Okay.
That's it. That's 2%.
1%.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.
It's 1%. Just—
Okay. Cool. Okay.
20 kilos, 200 grams. Yeah, 30 kilos, 300 grams. And then you've got this, then you've got your 1%, and you just then say, right, uh, uh, um, Dr. Nick says he's got to have 2%, so therefore, oh, that's easy, he needs 400 grams a day in total. Okay, that's everything that you feed the dog for the day. You divide it as much as you like. Ideally, you'll feed it then, they're two, two meals fairly close together. Or one meal total. Okay, but that's another conversation. Okay, so 2% for this particular dog is 400, and 3% is 600.
Yeah, I think that's exactly the same as my methods. I don't think Dr. Nick says that, I think Dr. Conor Brady said exactly the same thing. 20-kilo dog, 200 grams.
I know, but then you started bringing in decimals. Yeah, you brought in fractions and And everybody, you know, I think the number of people who are comfortable with doing that, that kind of mathematics in their head is very low. Okay. And I'm one of them. Okay. And that's why I made it so simple. Yeah. So don't think about 2.5. Just think about 2 to start with. And if, if that's not enough for your dog where you're feeding 400 to this dog, where you just go to 450 or 500. You know, if they're really active, you will go, you know, you'll add a bit more because they're running it off. And if they're really sluggish, then you might go, oh, let's try 380, 375, something like that. It just means you're dealing with real-world stuff as opposed to mathematical stuff for me. However, if you're comfortable with that kind of stuff and, you know, we've all got calculators on our phones these days, it's not that difficult. Once you get the basics, it's not that difficult. You'll be surprised at the number of people who are put off by the fact that they may have to calculate how much the dog is going to eat, as opposed to reading on the side of the packet, which is always wrong because they'll always add 10-20% in order to boost sales. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And listen, you can keep an eye on your dog's weight, okay? If you want to, if you like the shape of your dog at the moment, small little dogs can go— well, tiny little dogs can go in the food— I was going to say food processor— food weighing scale thing. And medium-sized dogs stand on the scales and pick them up And for bigger dogs, you can go to the vets and get them weighed, or you can just measure his waist with a cloth measuring tape, track back from the ribs, and you can measure his waist. Harder with big hairy dogs, I grant you. But if you're really worried, you can keep an eye on their weight and just make sure the weight doesn't go on. If anything, you can control the weight and make sure it comes off. You don't even have to feed less food for that because once you're feeding the dog yourself, you're in control. It's great. So, so far, just to recap, somebody says there, what about cats? Look, there was an RPM cats we did, or I we did, Brendon did, and we've done many, many shows on that. And they're all up on Facebook, free to view. Just type in CATS and transitioning, it'll come up on Facebook. Brendon's done lots of videos on it. He is the CAT expert and he has lots of content there to show you. So I'm sure Nick can tell us about that, but I'm just trying to save us time. Just to recap what we've said so far, keeping it simple, stupid. First step is yes, have a look around online and get a bit confused and get a bit panicked, but create your questions on a checklist. Checklist. What am I confused about? What do I need to know the answer to? Second of all, type into Google raw dog food, and Google owns Pointy Nose, so it'll direct you to the nearest pet shops that sell raw dog food. Go to ChatGPT, nearest raw pet food retailers to my house, and you can call out to one or two of them that you'd like to look at, and you can just chat to them with your questions. You walk in, you get one of the members of staff, and they are waiting to talk to you. They love it. You're going to buy complete raw dog food. They'll direct you as to what type you need. We're going to transition slow or fast, whatever you think is cool. Both myself and Nick are kind of on the slow bus, so you might take that advice. And then you're going to feed between 2 to 3% according to the Dr. Nick method of fractions and not Dr. Conor 2.5%. So around that amount, and you're on, you've started, you are ready to go. You are now feeding raw dog food, your dog's butt won't fall off, and after a week or two, you start to go, oh my God, this is easy, you know, and the fear starts to reduce, you know, and then the next hurdle for you will be, maybe I will try give the dog a raw meaty bone. Oh my God, which raw meaty bone? And you go online and there's someone that hates raw meaty bones and there's people terrified, there's people that love them and you're confused again, back down to the pet shop. Hey guys, 'cause they sell the raw meaty bones. What's the story with the raw meaty bone? Well, look, why don't you start with a duck neck? Lovely piece of meat, it's like a carrot. That's my favorite.
Or you go on to DrNick'sHolisticVet.shop, and he has done a whole seminar of 10 easy lessons on how to feed bones.
Nice.
How to introduce them, how to make it as safe and enjoyable as possible. I just have to say, my lot, I take them out for a walk in the morning over there, and when they get back, Ellie, I wouldn't do it, but she likes to give them a little treat in the morning. They all get a chicken wing or a chicken thigh or some crunchy thing, and they just, they just go chop, chop, chop, chop. Whoop.
Yeah, absolutely.
It's just, it's a, it's a thing of beauty to see. They, they, they just dress them. They're used to them. So people, if you, especially if you go to the vets, they will say you will kill your dog if you feed chicken bones. That is not the case. That is not our experience at all. And, and if it was, this whole raw thing would have ground to a halt a long time ago. But they will say that. But actually, if you just introduce bones, you know, from the softer to the harder, obviously, then you can get through that with, with some great enjoyment and your dog will absolutely love you for.
Clean teeth are so important. They're linked to so much disease. They are what takes animals out in nature. So keeping those teeth clean, it's not about a dental pick for €200 or €300 under sedation. And that is what's going to end your dog's life quicker. So you can keep them clean and the solution is deeply nutritious. But it's also not only does it clean teeth, it's also your dog's glucosamine and chondroitin and hyaluronic acid and collagen and all the cool stuff he needs for his joints is in that material. They are whole prey animals. You can't just chop that stuff out and expect to get away with it. There's bits and pieces that he needs, but that's about as far as you need to think about at the start, guys. You don't need to think about DIY, you don't need to think about nutrients and completeness, which let me tell you, the science behind that is utter nonsense. I have this sort of thing, Nick. I've just gone through the Fediaf, Afco Fediaf Complete Profile, and I've gone through every nutrient. And I've picked out all the studies they've used for each nutrient. Wait till you see how bad this looks. People aren't going to believe it. And then I never thought, have a look at the cat side of things. No information, nothing. There's nothing for, for most of the minerals that you care about. There's no studies done on cats. It's like, so where are they getting the figures from cats and dogs? Like, it is domestic cats, then the vitamin mineral needs of a domestic cat are virtually unknown. Swear to God. And so it's just an absolute car crash. So people should take solace from that. You hear you are vertical with bones and walking around and playing sports and you're okay because nutrition is not complicated. It's made sound complicated because it's something that they're very worried about because nutrition keeps you healthy, stops you getting diabetes and all the other stuff that they love selling products for. But good health is really, really simple. You got to take back a little ownership. You can do it. It's very, very simple. Keep it simple, start off, and before you know it, your dog's gonna be just so excited. I mean, what happened feeding dogs stuff they love? What happened to that? I mean, here we are spending €4 or €5 a kilo on dirt bread, you know, it's this nitrified bread with a George Jetson bloody protein pill inside it. You know, what happened feeding dogs meat? You know your dog loves meat. You know he wants meat, he's designed to eat meat. Meat. His nose is set up for meat. His tongue, his guts, everything is meat, meat, meat. All the food trials, meat, meat, meat, you know. So he's going to be so happy getting that food. Make the leap. Trust us. We have thousands of followers, millions when you add in Habib and Becker and everybody else, and we're all getting along fine. So, uh, trust the independents and give it a little shot. Talk to your pet shop. They'd be more than happy to see you.
Amazing. Yeah, I think, I think that's a good, good place to round up. I think we've, uh, we've overcooked a tiny bit.
Well, we don't have to jump to Patreon, so yeah, that's—
yeah, so there you go. That's where you're giving you, you know, a bit more chat. Not that we could stop. Yeah, yeah, well, when we, when we might have done. But, um, listen guys, absolutely great. It's, uh, the sun is shining, it's beautiful. I'm gonna go and sit in the sun for 2 seconds. Good. A little— in a little bit. Uh, Conor, really enjoyed that. Thanks a lot, mate.
Absolutely, that was awesome. That was cool.
That was really, really nice. And I hope Bren's having a lovely evening, eating beautiful food and what have you. I bet he is. So good night, everybody. How do we stop this?
I actually don't know. I was just going to ask you that, but then I didn't even know. I assume we can just leave unless Bren is listening secretly. I think we can just leave and Bren's laptop will take care of it. That's what we did last time.
Okay, so this is exactly the conversation. You can probably go back and go back and see it. This is exactly the conversation. But as we are goldfish, we just can't remember what happened yesterday. So what I'm going to— right, I'm going to do a count of 3 and then we'll then hit the hit to close down the app. Yeah.
Okay. We're just going to go.
Yeah.
Okay. Okay.
Okay, guys. It's been really fun. Any queries, put them in there. In the notes on Facebook, and we're going to be with you next week, and I haven't a clue what we're doing, so watch, it'll be great.
Yeah, cheers, Nick. Ready?
3, 2, 1.
Adios.
