Dr. Conor Brady answers rapid-fire pet health questions on managing fireworks anxiety, collecting ticks for disease testing, alternatives to omeprazole for dog GERD, supporting dogs on chemotherapy and prednisolone, monitoring renal cysts, and performing fecal microbial transplants.
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You've just got us, and we're just teaching Conor after 4 years of doing Warfare Medics how to use headphones.
It's very warm in here, the heating's on. I don't like heating on when I'm working, and if you open the window, Pete goes mad because Pete's our sound guy, as you guys know at this stage, and he can hear everything. I mean, I can't hear anything when the window's open, just a tiny bit, and then you'll get an email, Conor, do you have your window open? You know, he can hear everything.
It's like Do you post your Zoom mic right now? Do you put it on the windowsill?
It's like, it's only like, you know, it's 2.5 meters away from us, but, uh, it's— he hears everything, the poor man. So, uh, he must be a soundophile. You can imagine him at a gig, you know, uh, and you know when you're at an outdoor gig and the sound isn't great? That's torturous for some people, not for me. I remember I was at a gig recently and my friend moved where we were standing because he wanted to get a better sound for the gig.
I was like, who cares?
You know, we're in the middle of a crowd, we're having pints, but he moved to stand somewhere else so the sound will be better. That's a— that's an audiophile. There you go.
Oh dear, I'm sorry guys. Yeah, tonight is the Q&A for October 2021, and we will also be there later on, uh, so on patreon.com/rawpetmedics. Um, and we— if you are listening to us live on one of those wonderful, um, sorry, Sam's Vlogs Podcast. You are going to be able to find us pretty much anywhere you download your favorite episodes. Do remember to also like and share our page posts because that's how we get the message out there to all of those wonderful vets working with you and your pets. So please help to share the love.
Yeah, we've been getting lots of downloads recently. Peter shared the stats and I was like, Oh, that looks good. Every week, so it's growing. We can feel it.
And the same on YouTube, guys. On YouTube, please follow us there and smash the like button because that really helps. It does draw people in.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. We've got a lot of questions here, guys. Do you want to— before we tuck into these, is there anything burning that you need to discuss?
Well, we've not been using your propythium again. Every week he wants to get a plug in.
It's true, I am, I am just gonna, I'm gonna relentlessly plug these yeast infections even if they're my own. We just need to talk about yeast infections constantly.
We could talk about such things with Lee Carroll next week. He is one of the leading, the world's leading herbalists, and we met him in San Diego and we had some really good time with him, and he's coming in to talk to us next Tuesday, Tuesday the 5th of November. They say there's something happening in the States that day, but I can't remember what. But I'm sure that this will be an awful lot more exciting, dynamic, and, um, it will be over in an hour, unlike, unlike the 5th of November, which will last for at least a month.
Well, yes, because of course that's going to be also very explosive in the UK because we also for some strange reason, like to go around blowing things up. And, uh, so you're better staying indoors with your pets, turning us up loud, and we can assure you there'll be no explosions live. Okay, so that's the time to be in with us.
Yeah, so that— but that's going to be on a Tuesday. Nobody does Guy Fawkes Night on a Tuesday. Guys, uh, in America we do Guy Fawkes Night, where we celebrate the burning of a guy who tried to blow up the Houses of Parliament. Don't try this at home, folks.
5th of November when there's an election.
That's what we do on the 5th of November, every 5th of November, to be fair. Um, and, uh, but, but people do, do firework night on, like, it'll be on the Friday, surely, or maybe on the Sunday night. Yeah, because children go to school.
I love it. I love it when somebody who lives out in the country, miles from anybody, has this, has this thought that that's all that happens. It only happens at a weekend. You want to remember living in a city and you understand that it It happens for a month before and a month afterwards.
It happens for a month before, and then as soon as it's over at the end of November, you, you get the pre-Christmas fireworks. So actually, it's a kind of a 3-4 month period where if your dog is sensitive to fireworks, you— it's like the Blitz. Yeah.
You know what, I'm going to start therefore on a very topical bit. Uh, somebody has asked the question, come on guys, what do you think is the best way of keeping your dogs calm when people are going to come knocking at the door for trick-or-treat.
Move to the middle of Snowdonia for a week around that time with your dog. Yeah, I know people who do that actually. I know people who move to the middle of nowhere for a week around this time of year.
I have a friend there, Barbara, if she's listening. I hope she is. I hope your husband is doing well. Um, the, uh, she— her dog died last year from fireworks. Died on the night of Halloween. And she was sure it was just the dog was utterly petrified of fireworks and died of shock on Halloween. And if she wasn't such a close person to me and such an utterly reliable contact for information, uh, I would have thought, no way. 'that doesn't actually happen because I've never seen it first time, I've never seen a dog so utterly terrified. I've seen a few bad enough reactions but not this.' And she goes, 'No, real thing, this dog does.' So this Halloween I'm going to write a very short little kind of piece and show, put a picture of the dog and go, 'This is a real, real problem for people.' So I sympathize, I take it much more seriously than I did the year before. I always knew it was an issue, I can understand it, but yeah, do you see dogs coming into the vets with them from like shock Is that a thing?
People complain. They say, last year, you know, with my dog, um, destroyed my kitchen. I've seen that. Or destroyed, destroyed a window in the living room by trying to get out of it with the glass still intact.
Yeah, it was really sad last year.
I've seen it all.
Yeah, I would say, uh, really sad. I had two of my, uh, young goats abort on bonfire night. Yeah, and that's just the stress. It's just unbelievable, the noise that they have. So that was their first year, and obviously I think it was just too much for them.
What's to do, boys?
What's to do? Okay, so with people knocking on the door, here's my suggestion, is that you put a big sign on the door saying, please don't knock, we've got really nervous dogs. And that will— 80% of vaguely sentient people will go, oh, 'You better not go to Mrs. Jones' house because of the dog.' Yeah, they will have the heart not to go. However, for the 20% who still want to get their Quality Street— they are chocolates that you can get in the UK, for our US cousins— why not put a box of Quality Street down as close as on the street? Yeah, and say, 'Help yourselves.
Remember, there will be other people.' So do you ever remember Flash Gordon? Do you remember Flash Gordon? As a film, and there was, and there was in the film, there was a young Peter Duncan who had to put his hand into the log to pull out the, you know, whether he's going to get the prize or get bitten by the horrible beast. And I would suggest that the best thing that you can do for Trick or Treat is to recreate that log at the bottom of your drive and challenge the children to dare to put their hand into the log to get their treat. But there you go, that's just me being an evil.
It's not bad. Wow.
But it keeps them at the bottom of the drive and it keeps them well away. You can do all the lighting, there's some great, great stuff out there, but it keeps them down the bottom of the driveway and well away from—
I think maybe, I think that's actually, I think there's probably an idea in that. I think as well as, you know, kids are thick, you know, so they'll be coming up to the door excited and they mightn't be reading messages because it's like, you know, beware. And actually you're saying no, be aware of the dog and they have to say, no, it's just a spooky sign. You could actually block off access to your door by about a meter and put the sign on the outside and say, please do not knock on this door, you know. And I would leave a tub, leave a tub of crap from Lidl that cost you €2, and, uh, that's it, you know. And off they go, and then they don't get to touch the door. It's very difficult. It's too—
other supermarkets sell crap too.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, yeah.
Little mugs and little t-shirts on tonight. I hate it when people sell out to supermarkets. Well, Lidl offers extremely good value.
Lidl offers very good value and you should get there as soon as possible thanks to our sponsors.
I normally don't buy kibble, but if I was—
they've got a fine range.
So look, you know, from a training point of view, it's way too late for any of that. It's like there's nothing you can do. You can't tell a dog not to worry. I mean, you the analogy is you fall over and you bash your head and you have a big split in your head and it really hasn't started pumping blood yet and you get up and you're kind of going, am I okay? Am I okay? And someone's looking at you like, you know, you're going to absolutely panic. And that's what you are like when you answer the front door. You answer the front door and your energy just goes completely wrong. Don't forget that whole talk I did in San Diego. As soon as your heart goes wrong, are the people going to call? This negative effect is the dog is waiting for the doorbell to ring. So, you know, You haven't a hope. So I think the blocking of the door type thing is an immediate solution. The dog staying with somebody that's more rural is an idea if they're friends. If you really think they can't handle this, if it'll be quieter for them for this fireworks bit, that's probably it. The whole training thing, the crash bang wallop CDs, like if that even works a little bit, I'm not sure. That's where you use sound effects for like some fireworks. We used to use them in guide dogs to some effect. It worked for some of the guide dogs that were working because, you know, to relinquish a dog when the dog's working is catastrophic. Terrible results. So crash bang wallop is where you turn it up a tiny, tiny notches up to 100, you know, so as she's eating her dinner. So normally that's fine as long as the dog is not reactive to that, but even level 1 or 2 volume can be enough to scare the dog. So it has to be done under very careful hands. And so just advising people even to do that is a little bit hit and miss. So from a training point of view, like, you're talking about proper PTSD reactions to explosions here. Like, this is it's tricky. So I do like that idea of blocking the door for sure. It's tough. But as regards during the night as well, during the actual day when it's happening, you know, all the usual tips apply. Every single dog training group on Facebook is putting up great posts. I've got loads of posts on my page. Go to Dogs First on Facebook and type in Halloween and you'll get the post every Halloween that gives 5 or 6 things you can do and help with the dog. Do you mollycoddle the dog or not? I think most people are moving towards, yeah, you'd be in the kitchen and you help them out and you show them your confidence and that kind of stuff. And it's okay to give him a pat and tell him it's okay because he is going through it. But turning noise up and stuff, I'm not sure that really blocks out much of the horror for the dog. But lots of the training groups have great tips on there, so I wouldn't know much more than that these days.
Grand. Okay, look, I think we should move on to as many as we can tonight. We're actually going to try and get through some. So let's deal with Jodie. She has a problem with heavily populated deer ticks in her area, and therefore she's having, still having problems with her dog getting ticks on them, and she's worrying about tick-borne disease because it's a big issue for them and their dogs in their area of the States. Any ideas?
What was that one, Nick? What did, who do we, we talked to Karen?
Was it, was Karen, and then we spoke to our friend from Switzerland Oh yeah, Victoria, Victoria, yes. So I'd have a look at those two. Yeah, Victoria was about 4 months ago, and Karen was what, about around the same time, similar time, within 2 or 3 weeks of that time. I think that's the best bet.
Yeah, good information. You know, rather than waiting necessarily to the end of the season to test your dogs, because there is a 4-test thing, maybe even save those ticks up from the season and send the ticks off for testing, and then you can work out truly what's your risk.
How do you save them, Brent?
You literally just, once you've taken them off with your tick hook, pop them into a little container, put them in the freezer, keep them in the freezer, and then send them off.
Will they stay alive?
Not in the freezer. They don't have to be alive.
They don't have to be alive. Okay, they're just looking for—
for the DNA of the bugs in the dead ticks. So that's the way to do it.
Okay, okay, sounds good.
So here's one that's quite a common question actually. Omeprazole. The use of omeprazole in dogs, what's your thoughts and are there any alternatives that you would suggest for the control of GERD? It's a gastroesophageal—
I have a quick side question to clear something up in my head. Is omeprazole— omeprazole is not the same as metronidazole? Is it? No, it's not. They're different.
Yes, very different. Very different. Metronidazole is anaerobic, very potent antibacterial which is used very, very, very frequently in veterinary medicine. And omeprazole is an antacid, if you want the short version.
Okay, cool. So what is the ramifications of using omeprazole, lads?
Okay, I'll start with this, and I'm going to say omeprazole is it reduces the amount of acid your stomach produces, and that can be of use in certain types of pancreatitis and with certain short-term use in dogs who've got stomach erosions, and they've got this GERD where they're regurgitating or vomiting food, they can't keep food down. Very easily. However, I always try and get off it as soon as possible. To get off it, I'll be using things like homeopathic Nux vomica, I'll be using phosphorus, I'll be using lycopodium, I'll be using herbs like marshmallow, and I'd be using herbs like slippery elm. And, and these are all tried and tested. But what you've got to think, for me, is why have they got the erosions in the first place? So I'd be looking at doing some food trials to see if we can't get on top of, of that. I'm also using Adored Beast on the gut. On the, on our holistic vet shop, we sell Adored Beast Gut Soothe. We get it all the way from Canada. So it's, it's, it's, it's worth looking at that.
He's mortified. He's absolutely mortified.
Mortified is the word I would use.
Stealing.
No, no, you proceed. I'll just load in my gun here.
There's plenty of others, including BioFunction8 and a few other great products that are on this window.
I found that the GutSoothe does actually, in very many cases, not all cases, it does what it says on the tin. Okay, it's literally— there's prebiotics, probiotics, and anti-inflammatory elements to that, and I found it's very useful. Have you found, Conor, that your product BioFunction 8 is useful for gut health?
Yeah, you know, BioFunction 8 only has 3 or 4 ingredients in it, and the main ingredient— that is, well, the main 2 are chamomile and marshmallow. They're the active ingredients, for want of a better word. And so chamomile is great, called mother of the gut. I think Nick's spot on there. It's like, why is your dog suffering acid reflux. So I mean, I have had acid reflux before, usually after a night out and then eat some crap food and I get some acid reflux and it's happened to me and it's happened to me more than once. And I have reached for the Rennie, I absolutely have, and it has done the job. But I know bloody well what I did and I don't do it again for a while. So, but there is, there is long-term effects of using that. It disrupts the gut flora, disrupts everything downstream. And so there is always a payout. Also, is there not some sort of, was there not evidence, guys, that where you're using antacids constantly, that the gut then starts to overproduce acid in a way to combat the antacid that's being fed? Yeah, what was that word? Is that right, Brian?
Well, it will always try to, in homeostasis, it will always try and overcome the constant thing. So that's one, but another good reason to pulse dose. And not constantly give something. And also do bear in mind there's a great book coming out which is The Herbal Dog, and by Rita Hogan, by Rita Hogan. And we've got a few other texts out there. You may have seen some posts coming from Dr. Judy. Hi, Dr. Judy, we've seen your posts on your, you know, yin and yang version 2. 0.0.
Um, that's all with regard to a meprazole food treatment. Um, things to, to, to—
yeah, well, from a TCM, TCVM point of view, um, looking at food as therapy. And so you will find some interesting stuff in there, I am sure. Um, obviously cooling herbs, um, because if you're dealing with a hot dog And then think again, if you've got a cold dog, you know, what you want to be giving, you know, ginger isn't necessarily the way for everything, although we often see it as a great herb for gut. It's not necessarily great if you are a particularly hot dog. And then, and turmeric as well, things like that. Those are all of the same group of roots. And the you know, mints and chamomile and things like that can be really useful to—
yeah, the dog will select those. The dog will select chamomile. You grow it really quickly, it's a little green little plant, little hedge of a plant, and little orange flowers, yellow flowers, and the dogs love it and they'll eat the flowers. He eats the flowers. So, you know, if you've been feeding them food and doesn't really agree with them, he'll go straight for that chamomile. He's got a few different things out the back that he nuzzles on, and not much, not a very impressive garden I have, but he does pots of things. And so he goes for that chamomile. So that really does work. The reason that the marshmallow root and slippery elm, slippery Slippery elm, as the name suggests, it creates mucus and all your mucus linings and your gastrointestinal tract, your lungs. So you'll see slippery elm or marshmallow root working in the same area. Slippery elm is slightly less sustainable of an industry, so people use marshmallow. You can get it cheaper, it's organic, it's local, and it does the same thing. So it adds a little bit of a mucus lining. So you can imagine if you're burning the throat off yourself, you know, the soft, because you think about maybe lining that with a bit of mucus. And there's loads of other things like this. There's, you know, things that help from prebiotics to probiotics and stuff, but a diet making, just really assessing what's going in there. Treats, stress, you know, even stress alone, you know, your dog keeps going down the same walk and getting terrified by the dog behind number 10, you know, there's so much that can add to it. But yeah, it's sometimes just reaching for the omeprazole is like a long-term bandage. That's a plaster on gangrene, that's what that is.
Great. Okay, we're going to move on. This is another common question.
That would be a really good opportunity.
Did he break up for you? Because he broke up for me.
It sounded like a Daft Punk song.
It's the remix. I was just saying that I think we should get Dr. Judy Morgan on when the Yin and Yang 2.0 book comes out.
Totally, totally. We did a— you did a foreword for it, Nick. I did a foreword. Yeah, yeah.
So we have Paula. Talking about this is another common question, okay. Dogs on chemotherapy long term alongside prednisolone for lymphoma. And we've had— so basically, you know, generally with dogs when they're on long-term chemotherapeutics and they start to get symptoms, what's your advice? So if they start to get flaky skin just being a bit under the weather, they're, you know, getting chronic other problems. What do you tend to say for these dogs?
I'll leave that one with the vets there. That's out of my safety zone.
I think I would go, Brendan, I'd be interested to hear what you, how you'd approach this, but you're pouring a vastly greater level of cortisol into the body than the body is actually used to, and that is going to have ramifications. That's going to have metabolic implications. And you are also pouring in a toxin called chemotherapy, which arguably has a positive effect. I think it has a positive and a negative effect, but that's a very, very fine balance. We could argue that one. But because of that, you're going to have metabolic implications. So I think you need to really go back to grassroots, and just for me, to do two things. If the skin is looking flaky, you need to feed the skin. Feeding the skin from the inside is a lot better than putting stuff on, on the outside. So I'd be thinking of the fats that the dog is getting, uh, and try and diversify those fats. Make sure you're getting the, the omega-3, the omega-9. Omega-7 is something that somebody's been talking about recently, which I'd be interested to, to talk to you guys about There's probably a show in that, I would think, if we throw in omega-6 as well. But, um, so we'd be, we'd be looking at feeding the skin, uh, um, with, with the oils. But the thing is, these oils never come on their own. There's no such thing as omega-3 on its own in nature. It will always be within regen beef, or it will be within, uh, fish or, or, or green-lipped mussel or whatever it might be. So we'd be looking at diversifying the diet there. We would be, you know, if they're weak, I'd be looking at herbs, the ashwagandhas, the adaptogens of this world, maybe some homeopathics. If the homeopath— if they're on high-dose pred, then homeopathics may not bite quite so well. So we may well be in herbal territory. So really it's a question of saying, right, where's the body looking weak? How can we support that? And obviously we'd be looking to support liver and kidney function because there's a lot of toxin going in, and that's needs to get eliminated by the body. So we're looking at kidney and liver support. We'd be looking at dandelions, we look— looking at the schizandra, we'd be looking at bauplurum, we'd be looking at the obvious one, which is milk thistle, mushrooms, and mushrooms. Yeah, to, to support immune system. But you just have to make sure that they're not undoing any work. Yeah, the chemo.
It was an interesting point Lee made actually when we were chatting out the back. It was like like, you know, there's so many different types of mushrooms out there. It's like when people say seaweed, it's like, or kelp, it's like, what, there's 10,000, you know, under the ocean. There's more seaweeds than there is herbs on the planet. But, uh, he said like, which mushroom for what, when? And it's like that. I knew I knew nothing. And he said, no, there's some mushrooms would be very useful for, uh, respiratory cancers, and another one would be good for colon cancers, another one would be good for blood cancers. And it's like, oh, that's interesting. So just going with a foundational mix might be not a bad idea, he said, for someone that's probably not in the shit. But when you're in the shit, you should probably talk to somebody that understands mushrooms and use them as the tool that they are. So I thought that was a good tip.
And make sure they're not undoing any work that the chemo is doing. Yeah.
And so, so I'm going to say that was a great, that was a great answer. I'm going to move you on a little bit because he's okay. And actually, I'm just going to add a little little bit, because I kept a fact back, just because I knew Nick would give a very good complete answer, and I want to add in the fact. So this dog is in 18 months of remission and is still on those medications. So I think this is a conversation about quality of life. You've got a 13-year-old dog. So if you've got an older dog who's in remission for a number of months, way beyond the standard for lymphoma in this case, because normally they're going to talk 60 days if you start to add in some of these these drugs for lymphoma, then I think it's time to have a conversation about quality of life versus the need for the medication. And there's got to be a point where you start to talk with your vet to taper those things down for the health of your pet. So look at quality of life. So, you know, you're at that point now, you know, you're well beyond just giving the medication for the sake of saving their lives. You're now into, well, I've got to give them quality of life back. So, you know, well done for getting them through the hard bit. Now let's talk about improving nutrition and tapering off those meds, because whilst ever those meds are going in, it's going to be a continued challenge to your dog's health.
Okay, okay, so just going to complicate that slightly. What happens if the dog is absolutely doing great and still on the chemo and quality of life is just second to none. I think that the owner and the vet and/or oncologist would be thinking, well, dog's doing great, they are having this protective thing called prednisolone and chemotherapy, and they're way beyond the normal life expectancy.
So you could say if they're doing great, but the dog's not, it's starting to deteriorate, And also, if the dog's happy and he's got flaky skin, I would say, uh, I think if you, if you are starting to see— yeah, it is degrees. And that's why I say you should have that conversation with your vet about tapering the medication. And I think the point is that, you know, you've then got to think about healthspan. You know, what are the consequences of those drugs going to be? What are the organ Are you testing those organs in the long run? Are you looking at those kidneys? Are you looking at that liver, as Nick was talking about earlier on? What is going on as the challenges? Because if under the surface you are starting to get spikes in problems with those organs because of those medications, then you have to do that tapering. Because the actual disease symptoms, any biopsies, etc., may show that there's no disease cells still going on, why are you throwing in a toxin constantly? We wouldn't do it to ourselves.
Very good. Sorry, Conor, after you.
I was just going to say, as a non-vet, it's very difficult, you know what I mean? You guys are vets and it's like, I'm not a vet. If my dog was in that situation, what am I going to do? You know, it's very confusing because you want to have complete trust in what the vet has to say and do, and who am I to question them on chemotherapy? What do I know about chemotherapy? It is very difficult for pet owners when you start asking questions. It's like, it's much easier just not asking questions and just going, I'm not implying you should, but it's, you know, there is that whole black pill or blue pill, red pill thing where it's like, you know, to have complete faith, it must be lovely to have complete faith and go, okay, yeah, I'll do that, I'll do that, and just and accept your fate. Whereas when you start kind of asking questions and prodding and stuff, it gets difficult for the non-vet because it's like, where do I go?
I've had enough. I've been watching enough podcasts over the last few weeks. I've had enough of you turning to The Matrix and talking about blue pill, red pill. And have you heard about being blackpilled?
Oh yeah. Oh, well, yeah, I got confused with the black pill because I just heard that recently. But no, but it's the same with your own health. You know, there are some real decisions people have to make when they're off for chemo. Chemotherapy. It's like, it might get you an extra 6 months. It's like, what sort of months am I going to have on this chemotherapy? You know, so, you know, you can play with your kids for 6 months, or you cannot play with your kids and live for a year. And it's like, so these are just terribly real decisions that you— that are very difficult for a non-vet. It must be great to have that information, but I don't. I would panic if it was me.
Just so I thought, I think that's a really good summary from all of us, actually. But I would just say you need to have the conversation with the vet to say, in your opinion, do you think these symptoms that are coming through are due to the cancer or due to the treatment? And that will give you a signpost as to which way you need to go, I think.
And what tests can we do to work that out?
Yeah, yeah, that's good. I've got, I've got a question here, guys. Kidney cysts. A good pal of mine has a dog with kidney cysts. What are kidney cysts and is there anything you can do?
How old is the dog?
I have no idea. I forgot to ask.
Okay, so they tend to be, as I understand it, either genetically there's a fault or congenitally, i.e., they've developed within the womb, that there's a fault with the urine excretion zones from the glomeruli. Okay. Which is the bulb which filters. Okay. All the way down to the loops. That then allow the exchange of electrolytes to concentrate or dilute the urine accordingly. And if they are blocked, if they don't function, if they're malformed, then effectively cysts can start to build of urine-like fluid within the kidneys. Okay, and they are obviously then interfering with normal filtration in areas of the kidney around them. So the impact can be a chronic kidney disease of some description because of the space taken up by those cysts. So that's very briefly what's going on. So some people would say, do you drain them? No, because they probably will just refill because they're not just going to empty. So there's very few people would do that. Many people will just try and optimise renal function in the remaining tissue, because you can lose 75% of your kidney and still have kidney function. So it becomes a game of optimising the kidney that you've got left that is functional, so that that is then preserved and maintained. So obviously avoiding toxins where you can that could destroy the remainder of So no mince pies this Christmas, things like that. Okay, no more sugar. Avoiding things that can deplete your kidney function, and you have to just put up with it. Don't breed them.
I like the analogy of cars on the road, and as your kidney function decreases, the traffic can build up on the road, and it's like you've chopped off a lane or two on the 6-lane highway, and as the the traffic builds up, you need to start thinking about taking some cars off the road. And so there's lots of low-hanging fruit there. He's free, good quality food, hydrated food. Obviously food with water is far better than crackers, so get off the chemically preserved crud and get onto real food. Watch the treats. And so that's the food side of things. Good quality water, giving your dog lots of access to that water with electrolytes, water without, and you know, that kind of stuff. Make sure she's topped up. Also make sure the teeth are really clean. So there's a massive link between kidney disease and nasty teeth. So it's constantly fighting the infection and the gum line, it just produces a whole lot of immunodebris, which has to be processed out by the kidneys. So it's a huge, huge link to that. So having the teeth sparkling clean, raw meaty bones, and my dental product if you're stuck. But getting those teeth clean is a very, very important thing to do. So but I'm sure Sheila realizes all that. What else, Nick, have you got in the in the wizard sleeve, so to speak.
I was just about to give you an answer. So, um, uh, okay, so up my sleeve I have got, um, I, I, well, the first thing I said, what age is the dog? So if the dog is, is young then you might be in for a bit of a rocky road, okay, because the congenital, you know, the bigger they get, the more they squeeze the tissue, as Bren was saying. And so you've got to be a bit careful. You've got to make sure you do monitoring, monitoring bloods for renal health, but also urine, UPC, make sure that you're not losing too much protein because of the damage to the nephrons and what have you. So if you've got a young dog, then you've got to be careful with your monitoring and do all the right stuff. You need herbs to support the kidneys, you need great food, optimal protein, optimal protein quality, coenzyme Q10, vitamin E, and what have you for membrane stability and really optimal health within those kidneys. In terms of The herbs, I would be looking at Equisetum, and I would be looking at milk thistle. Everybody thinks of liver, but actually milk thistle is very, very useful for kidney support as well. We're also looking at Parsley Peart and Pelletree of the Wall. These are herbs that are used— S or M-A-I-S, some people say.
I was going to say I had that, I had it, but I don't. I've just— I found corn silk. No, it's not. This is the nicest smell on the planet. May Chang oil. Have you heard of May Chang oil?
No, you're backwards as well, mate.
Oh yeah, always backwards.
What is the story? Uh, hang on there, I can fix it. So I was walking through, I was walking past some, some healthy place and I thought, oh, that smell, that reminds me in the '80s, reminds me of some beautiful smell that obviously it works for me. And anyway, I went in, I got a bottle of it, and I'm using a little incense burner now and again. It was nice because, anyway, Elaine said my office stank. I don't know why. Anyway, anyway, but the thing was, I built up this smell for everybody. Absolutely. Oh, Elaine, when you see the smell and say to the kids, this is the nicest smell on the planet, and all three of them talk, no, it's not nice. So it's interesting how it's unique to each of us. I'm so sorry for that sidetrack, Nick, in the middle of—
No, no, no, no, this is good. This is good. I love the smell— talking of, as we were earlier, this is a big sidetrack and it's probably inappropriate because Bren is going to say let's chase a couple more questions before we finish— but I love the smell of valerian. Yeah, valerian root. Oh yeah, there are two major notes to valerian root. There is a perfume note up at the top. I'm very visual with with smells. So up at the top, and tastes, but there is this a perfume smell, and that is what I smell when I smell valerian. But lurking down at the bottom of the, the smell, um, profile are fecal notes. So when some people smell valerian, all they can smell is poo.
Okay.
But I, I smell the perfume, which I think is— it's quite a nice way to be an optimist.
It's okay. I wouldn't rub it on you just in case half the people in the supermarket are going, whoa, yeah, um, in the fresh, fresh bread oil.
Um, is that— or 50,000 cats go wild over you?
Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah.
For anybody that was still there, I'm sure those questions are rolling in. Conor, what was that delicious oil? That one, guys, buy it and impress everybody everybody in your house with that delicious smell. And I know there's lots of like all the green leaves, there's loads of veterinary herbalists out there that make kidney and liver tonics and based on like, you know, dandelion leaf, raspberry leaf, and, you know, green tea. And these guys put a lot more thought into kind of kidney tonics than— so like even that alone to help the kidneys, as well as taking the cars off the road anyway, any which way you can, watch your drug usage and that kind of stuff, unnecessary flea and worm tablets and over vaccination and all that kind of stuff. It all takes a toll. The kidneys have to process all that out. And I've got one other very short one, and just because I think, Bren, you'd mentioned it before because you're doing them. A person mentioned to me a while ago that their vet says that your dog absolutely has to be put out to get to receive an FMT colonic up the bum. So like, is there— is that true? Your dog has to have a general anesthetic for that to happen?
Sure.
So it's really interesting because I saw at a CPD event, okay, so a continued professional development event in London last year, them talking about it like it was the new thing on the block to do fecal microbial transplants. And I was gobsmacked to find out this referral center were anesthetizing, not just sedating, but anesthetizing patients in order to place a flexible Foley catheter per rectum and guide it up into the transverse colon.
And how long would it be, Ben? Like 14-inch maybe?
Yeah, it depends on the size of dog, obviously. Okay, so, you know, if you're putting it into a German Shepherd, it's going to be slightly bigger than if you're putting it into a Yorkshire Terrier.
Yeah, but it's not going to reach their tonsils, is it? No, that's the important thing.
So the point is that I have done some smaller dogs and I've done some larger dogs, and you choose an appropriate tube. So there are lamb feeding tubes, are nicely bluntly ended and easy to lubricate and relatively stiff, and they are about 12 inches long. Okay, so for smaller dogs and they're wide enough bore that actually when you've made the poo shake, okay, from your fecal donor, healthy donor, you can mix that usually with saline or some, you know, so we're talking normal saline here, not super concentrated salt solutions. I usually mix in a little bit of aloe, and that has its own benefits in the sense of how it lubricates going in, let alone some of the prebiotic effects and soothing effects. And usually I will then lubricate that and start to pass it per rectum. So if you've had your dog usually starved for 48 hours, they've had plenty of fluids, okay, and they've been walked out gently over that time to pass as much feces so that you've not got a bowel full of flora. And they may have had some Atrantil or something else to effectively reduce their natural bacterial overgrowth. Those can be useful additions to reduce the number of transplants you might have to effect, but certainly for some of these cases they've done neither of those and I've managed to pass a tube per rectum to the hub and then we use a wider gauge. So rather than a lure catheter, which is a very narrow ending to the syringe, the type of end that we use, the spigoted end that we've got to the lamb feeders and stomach tubes, things like that. Which are a similar gauge plastic, then we can actually put these larger spigoted-ended syringes on, which allows you to implant the material in there. And, you know, pretty much you're looking at least 10ml per kilo, up to 50ml per kilo is being quoted by some people that are doing this.
How do you know you've got enough in?
So usually if they start to poo liquid back out there, back in, you've probably got fluid leaking out. Okay, and that's the other thing. If you've got them anesthetized, then often the gut is relaxing and you're not getting that feedback. But I would say I definitively have seen them maintain the fluids. So what they then report is on recovery, they end up with a tsunami, okay, spewing out of the kennel as they go into recovery because they've packed them with so much fluid, and as soon as they become conscious, they can't keep it in. Whereas actually, my cases haven't had a tsunami afterwards. If they've had a bit of a dribble, you take out the catheter, you mop them up, and you know, you say, okay, how long before they expel it all? That can vary. So, you know, we usually keep them indoors, that stops them from thinking, I need to go, I'm going to go now. So if they're in the kennel or they're in with the owners, we say try not to give them a long walk out until they've got at least an hour or two. Okay. And then you can— and that's enough.
Yeah. Doddy would just let that go. Boom. He was not all that. He'd just look at you.
No.
So, Brent, how many dogs out of 10 do you think that you could do, you could pass the catheter or the, the, the lamb feeder tube with? I'm thinking 7 or 8 out of 10 would stand for it.
Yeah, I mean, look, if you think probably, what, 5% of dogs are going to want to take your face off as soon as look at you, Okay, if you start interfering underneath their tail. So 95% of dogs actually are, you know, unbelievably to many clients, quite tolerant of us doing a rectal exam. Okay, and that's the point. I think it's keeping them calm in those situations. Okay, it's all about the lead-up, you know, you're not going to start ragging them around, it's, you know, you're not going to start preparing the poo shake in front of them, things like that, you know, you're going to have that all pre-done so that when they're in, you know, all that they're going to feel is you being calm and making sure that that colonic is done in a calm fashion.
Well, I'll tell you what, I had an endoscopy, colonoscopy about 6 months ago, and I can guarantee you I did not have a GA, okay? And I think in with, with, and and, and that was— they're probably up about a meter, 80 centimeters.
Yeah, under stress, Nick is in that 5% of dogs.
Actually, actually, with the consultant, I was talking to him about raw food for dogs the whole time. It was hilarious. No, I kid you not, I kid you not. He, he was feeding his dog 50% raw and 50% kibble. And I said, mate— or I didn't, I said, you know, whatever his name was, um, why on earth would you be feeding ultra-processed food to your dog? You're a gastroenterologist. And, um, I may have—
and he said, he says, no, I'm a janitor.
I just got let out of prison last week.
No hands.
What do you mean no hands? No scope.
Next trick.
Oh dear.
Oh, this is descended very fast.
Okay, right, so listen, what's the time?
Okay, so we've stalled on Facebook. We've— I've told the guys it's 45 minutes in. We're gonna post all of this on Patreon anyway so that they can see the full episode. But we're going to move over to Patreon to ask the last few bits because I think there's some vital questions about how we get vets on board with feeding low-processed foods.
Yeah, Sean has asked us a question from Taiwan. Good old Sean.
So we want to deal with all of those. So if you want to join us over on patreon.com/rawpetmedics, we'll post tonight's episode plus the extra bonus material. Yeah, see you over there.
See you there, guys.
Lucky, lucky people.
