RawPetMedics Feline Fridays

Hello everyone. Hello, we're back.

That's enough of that.

Oh my God, I thought we were just gonna just get cut off altogether. I've been having so many problems this week over BeLive connecting to Facebook. I had to reboot the whole system, and then what happens? Now the signal's gone. It's like somebody does not want me to be on the airwaves. But today, thank you for joining us. If you're tuning in, this is about pancreatitis in our little feline friends. So I'm a little bit more specific than myself and the boys have done in the past, which has been very much about dogs. So, you know, I thought as always that cats deserve an airing. And so who better to do that with than Julianne, who for me is above, woo-hoo. And then I've got to work out that way. Dr. Anaya from FelVet, okay. And so FelVet for cats. You can find her on her own Facebook page and Instagram. So if you have any questions today, guys, put it down in the comments. We'll be seeing that go up there. Hi for Sherry and Heidi, you've come on already.

Woohoo!

And the other— well, there's quite a few in the background. Don't be afraid to put your name down to say hi, you know, if you're watching. Yeah, it's always good to know who's there and which Puddy Cats you've got. You can post a picture if you like, okay, of your little Puddy Cat with you. Hi Susan!

Tell us where you're watching from as well, like tell us like whereabouts in the big wide world you are, you know, with your Puddy Cats, because we love to know like, you know, where we're connecting with you guys.

So drop us a comment and let us know that as well.

Yeah, around the world. I love it when we get people from Australia and over from America and up in Canada. It's Yeah, it's just amazing. So great to see you guys. So without further ado, what's been happening with you, Amaya? We've just had a great weekend. Come on, give us an update. What was your big takeaway from Helsinki?

Well, I had a really, really good time in Helsinki. The thing is, it's really good to see you all again and to— actually meet Anna because I, you know, I didn't know DogRisk. I knew the name but not, not Anna in person. So it was really nice to meet her. And from the talks, actually, it was really good because it was balanced between the studies and the research that DogRisk is doing and the other part, which is kind of connecting the, the data to the daily life, you know, that's in a way.

Clinical stuff.

Yeah. So it was really good and very well balanced. And also we get to see different points of view from America, you know, North America, from Europe, because I find always when I read stuff from the US, it's kind of different from sometimes in certain things that we think here in Europe, right? So especially in the formulation kind of thing of foods.

Yeah.

But it was really, really interesting. Now I have a lot of books to read. Just, you know, I made my list and now I have to focus on that because there's a lot of things and new stuff to get. And the principal thing that I loved was the fecal transplants. There's something I would like to have here more available in Spain. We do, but not quite there. And, and also inflammation, which is something that we're going to talk today.

A bit, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's great. You, Julianne, tell us, what's your month been?

Something special?

My month has been all about this, getting this bad boy up and printed and here and ready and available for people to buy. So, ta-da! My second book! I had you!

Two books! Two-book Julianne! There we go. What's going on?

It's been a bit of a mission with that one, but it's here and I feel very, very proud to have kind of, you know, brought it to the, the feline community. And, um, the feedback about it has been great so far. So if you haven't got a copy, peeps, you know, you can get it on Amazon, or you can support me, a small business, you know, and get it from my website. You get a signed copy from me. And it's been really lovely to bring it into people's homes. So like, I offer chakra work, but now people can do it themselves with their cats. So it feels a really beautiful opportunity to say to people like, look, you're interested in holistic care, have a look at it. You know, I've got a bit about oils in there and herbs, obviously, you know, and crystals and things. So it's just, yeah, it's been, um, it's been brilliant to bring it together. Oh, there was a message then. Oh yeah, you are there, Brendan. There's one stuff going on with your tech today.

I'm a wing and a prayer.

So yeah, it's, uh, the last month has just been all about the book, and then we've started this last week conference planning for 2024 for the Naturally Cats Conference. So, uh, yeah, 6 months to go. Let's just put a pin in that for a minute.

And so can people, people can get your book on Amazon anywhere around the world, or just in the UK?

No, no, anywhere. Yeah, anywhere. Oh, Heidi's got hers! Great. So Heidi has been waiting for it for a week and she's finally got it. Heidi, that's great news. Brilliant, brilliant.

Okay, so, well, without further ado, I think we should, you know, talk about what we're here today. And I think, should we give a little bit of a lowdown on pancreatitis? Do you want to come in with the issues that you see people asking about, Julianne. Is there, you know, what's the main set of questions or the interest that you have in this? Because we're going to be very clinical otherwise, and that's not necessarily what everybody wants to hear.

Exactly. I'm going to record you saying that, Brendan.

I haven't started my recording yet.

So I, I don't have a lot of clients come to me for pancreatitis. I've had experience of it myself because Pickle had it alongside her diabetes, her IBS, you know, her gingivitis. I mean, now I realize she had like massive-scale inflammation. I didn't realize back then that all of these things were all connected, and, and it's a little heartbreaking now to sort of learn from you guys, to share with you guys, to speak with, you know, with the cat community and understand more. But obviously, you know, know better, do better. So I hope that I would bring information to my boys. But for us, like, her pancreatitis was— it was almost like a secondary just problem, you know. It wasn't something that I realized we could do, we could support more, you know. So I did my own research with it. But it never got explained to me that it was connected with the diabetes and connected with the IBS, you know. So like, I'd love for you guys to— I don't mean to bat it back, but I, I actually want to know a bit about the science today. Can you believe it? This is just like an alternate reality this week because I, I want you guys to share how they are connected. And it's not just like, it's not a standalone, it's not a singular isolated thing that it needs you know, that holistic approach, because we didn't do that. You know, I didn't have a holistic approach, and I don't mean holistic as in like complementary or alternative treatments. I mean holistic in looking at the whole cat. We were looking at one piece at a time and these separate jigsaw pieces, and in my experience, in my opinion, that's not the best way to deal with it. You need to look at the entire cat and what's going on. So I mean, I'm going to throw this probably first to Amaya because I I know that, you know, you're— you like the complementary and alternative bit, but also for you, like, holistic is, is key. So can you speak a bit to that?

Yeah, well, first of all, let's define pancreatitis, which is inflammation of the pancreas, right? We can have it— it's— well, we have this amazing draw that just equals inflammation. Actually, Brendan is going to explain later on.

Yeah, yeah, I'm still going to hand it over like a slide deck anyway.

Um, but yes, I've given up on Oh, he's frozen again.

We're back to basics now. It's like, if I can scribble a drawing down, it'll do.

Just hold it while you freeze on you with your connection.

Yeah, exactly. And I can just, just talk it through. Anyway, so, um, pancreatitis is that, is inflammation of the pancreas. And, and actually, that this, it's not very well diagnosed. I mean, it's still, it's confusing because you get a lot of symptoms. Uh, usually, for example, one of the things that is happening for me often is that very initial chronic disease, kidney disease, it is, you know, it's a pancreatitis, a mild pancreatitis that has never been taken care of. And usually you get, you know, something metabolically going around and suddenly you get kidney issues. So that's one of the things that when you say holistic, don't look at just one organ because sometimes you can get the kidney affected because you have other issues, intestinal, liver, or pancreatic. So the same thing goes for anything else, because vomiting in cats sometimes is even taken as something normal, which is not. Even hairballs is not normal. And it's very complicated to diagnose pancreatitis just because unless you have like that acute pain, which my, my teacher always said there is a face for pancreatitis in cats. And until I saw one, I was like, you're crazy. You know, he was always kind of a crazy vet, you know. But when I saw the pancreatitis face, the acute pancreatitis face, you never forget about that.

How does it look, Amaya?

Yeah, it looks— you really want me to do that?

Come on, come on.

Well, they arch, they tend to arch, and they look very painful, like, you know, like, um, They sit, sometimes they sit around and they just simply like that and you can see their faces like there is pain in their eyes. It's very, very noticeable. And because there is pain and why is that? It's because, you know, the enzymes that should be, you know, protected and coming out to activate in the intestines, they activate inside. So they, you know, they create because of that inflammation initially, they create more inflammation and a lot of pain because they are digesting in a way their own, uh, the pancreas itself, right? So, um, it is, it is quite, uh, the thing is it's very straightforward what is happening in the pancreas, but the, the, the symptoms are not, and the causes are not where, where it comes from. So I'm going to let you, Brendan, for that, the what are the Because there are many, and I'm sure, you know, I've been speaking too much so far.

No, not at all. I just thought I'd do this. This is the purposes, don't— so Linda, just to say, okay, look, this is where I'm going to get this right. So pretend this is a pussycat, okay? And then in the abdomen you've got the liver, which is just after the chest and the diaphragm, and then you've got the stomach, which is just a bit further back, kidneys above and then just when the duodenum, so they exit from the stomach, you have a little pancreas here, okay, and if that becomes really inflamed, okay, that's into the small intestine and liver is a bit more of a demo on this side, okay, that becomes really painful and what that will do is inflame all the tissues around it. So on X-ray, what we can sometimes see is in that region of the cat, that the definition of the intestine and the stomach and the liver and the spleen gets all a little bit deteriorated and it starts to get a very sort of intense mottling around that. But it's far better at that point when you see that and you look at the signs and symptoms, as Amaya was saying, you know, maybe it's on and off vomiting, it may be that there's even some jaundice, there may be just some you know, intense discomfort and that arching, that praying position that the cats may take up, but on palpation it's really, you know, uncomfortable, then what we can do is take some blood and there is something called a feline pancreatic lipase, okay, which is very specific to the pancreas to look at if those levels are really high, i.e., above 400 on a standard test, then we will see the that as a probability that there's pancreatitis. You cannot, however, presume that the pancreatitis is a primary disease. We're going to talk about that in a moment. Everybody refers to it as this is a primary disease, but it is actually often a sequelae, so something that follows on from other disease which is going on, which is what we were learning about in Helsinki of the march of inflammatory disease and where it can lead. Your pet, whether that be a dog or a cat or ourselves through life, which is great because it sort of merges then with, you know, that holistic view in homeopathy and traditional Chinese medicine and all of the Ayurvedic medicine of how disease advances. Okay, many of them do come back to the gut, which is why raw pet medics talk about raw feeding and whole food feeding so much. All comes back to the gut, but there's so many other things that will lead to that inflammation. So we need to sort of deal with that. So area of the abdomen, definitely mid-abdomen, lots of pain. The enzymes that are activated, instead of being activated in the normal intestinal tract because of the inflammation, they end up being activated in the pancreas. That sets off a cascade of autodigestion because those enzymes are specifically about being bound up and delivered into the intestine where they then break and become active. If they're active in the pancreas, they're going to be digesting protein and fat. Well, what are we made up of but protein and fat? So if you're digesting yourself in your pancreas outwards, that is extremely painful. It begets more inflammation. It becomes a vicious cycle that sort of goes off, off the rails. So we need to look at how we can control that specific excessive inflammatory process.

And the alarming thing about this, and, and Conor says it in Feeding Dogs, but it still talks about a little bit about cats sometimes, it's that there's a study about, you know, that there is an undiagnosed population of cats that have mild pancreatitis, you know, maybe asymptomatic. So they, if I recall, it was a 45% of them that look, appear to be healthy, and But postmortem, when they— from 100 and something, 115, I guess, um, when they did a postmortem, uh, analysis of the pancreas, actually showed signs of pancreatitis in the 45% of them. And other ones, they actually showed some symptoms. But imagine that it's not always something that you can see. So it is important that, uh, with that, to know that when we actually see symptoms, maybe this is it's coming from a long run, unless it's acute, because acute is, you know, very short-term thing. But, um, and the chronic pancreatitis is the one that worries me the most because it's the one that it, it can show no symptoms for a while until it's happening, you know, for a long time.

Yeah. So Brendan, is this something that would show up like on, on routine bloods? Like if you did had a health check with your cat, so you didn't necessarily see vomiting or have kind of external looking symptoms If we were going to, you know, you get a 6-month or 12-month check done with your cat, looking at what Amaya just said, is that lipase test part of the regular blood work, or is it something to ask for in addition to?

So there's often consequences to the pancreatitis that are going on, and that can be effects on the liver, effects on, you know, so you may see ALP, ALT go up, these other enzymes that we look at because of the inflammation in the intestine and the liver. And we often look at this Triaditis, an inflammation of 3 organs because of the association of where they are. So that's an inflammation of the pancreas, an inflammation of the liver, and an inflammation of the small intestine. So if you've got signs and symptoms which are consistent with that, everything from GERD, which is gastroesophageal reflux disease, so vomiting in cats, you know, almost like an IBS, IBD issue, then pancreas may become involved, or it may be a primary part of being involved, but you may then also see some liver issues accumulating too. So it's really complex, and that's why for so many people it can be confusing when they see these cases in. And, you know, there are many vets out there, and hi to Tori and your team that are watching as well from your ICU Vet Tech group. They It is very confusing for many, and often it's almost one of those blood results that people grasp for as, oh my God, I can see the FPLI is raised, it must have pancreatitis, i.e., that's the primary disease. But there are so many other things that could be associated with that. You know, is there a viral infection that set things off in the gut and that's associated inflammation that's caused a problem? Has there actually been an inflammatory process that we've not even identified yet? So You know, that could be anything from vaccination all the way through to something aberrant that they've eaten, some exposure that's gone on that's caused an inflammatory process. And it's a consequence. And, you know, I'm talking in this case about food because we know where you have excess starches within the diet and inappropriate glutens and things like that, that can cause inflammation in the gut, especially for cats, that can cause a leaky gut. But not only that, when those starches are broken down into glucose quite readily, that actually gives an insulin spike, and that insulin spike is actually the one which leads to excessive triglycerides being produced in the liver to circulate in the gut. So actually, far from it being fats which can be inflammatory, you have to be really careful because simple starches or starches that will give insulin spikes can be even more inflammatory. So even to the point where insulin instigates some of the inflammatory mediators that are going on. Not only that, you've then got the pre-stuff of where the insulin is produced in the pancreas. That After a while in chronic pancreatitis, and I absolutely agree with Amaya here, that the consequences of long-term pancreatitis have to be looked at because you will then start to get a fibrosed organ which is not able to necessarily produce an appropriate amount of insulin. So, you know, that can add to diabetes, on top of which you can also get a lack of production of digestive enzymes. So you can end up with a maldigestion syndrome where they're losing weight, they're having diarrhea and those type of things. So we need to touch on how to support the long-term patient with this.

And there's something someone asked, the difference between acute and chronic, and you just mentioned most of it because the difference, the fibrosis is something that you would look more into the chronic side of things and necrosis or more inflammatory, really aggressive kind of thing that it comes in a short period of time is acute pancreatitis. Which is like, there are different processes that I don't think we should get into it. But the thing is that the most important thing is that one, the acute is usually more painful. It happens in a short period of time. And it's this aggressive autophagy, how do you call it? Autophagy. And this is kind of the thing that it's separates from chronic. That chronic, it's kind of, okay, this has been happening in a mildly way, and now instead of that, that inflammation turns into fibrosis in a way. So then you get the organ working not the way it should be, you know. So you get less enzymes, less everything. And someone said something about chronic renal disease and and feeling uncomfortable, I would look into it because I've seen several cases of— because of the— also kidney disease can be very caused by inflammation, and you have to see if there is a structural problem with the kidney disease or if it's an inflammation that's causing all the symptoms of renal disease, which is something that normally nobody does. So if it's inflammation, then look for other organs that are inflamed. And this is what I do as a diagnosing every time I see something in the body inflamed, I'm assuming there is kind of, you know, the pancreas might be affected even though the blood work is not helping or the ultrasound is not conclusive. If something is inflamed, I'm assuming all the gut is inflamed and cats have very, you know, they have everything connected. So that's why it's called triaditis, I guess.

Yeah, the three things, the three things, it's the three, you know.

Yes, liver, the gut, and the pancreas all together. And if something is inflamed, then your whole body is inflamed. So that's something we have to start looking instead of looking for one organ, we have to look at the most important part, which is inflammation, and then see, okay, where should I put my focus on? Is this the pancreas? Is this the kidneys? So once I start targeting all the, all the organs that are inflamed or the most important ones that are going to affect your lifespan, that's, that's how, that's how I deal with it. And then I try to, to find the proper and good diagnosis if I can.

Yeah.

And a really small point that you talked about kidneys, you know, many people don't realize if the kidneys are damaged, and you've got chronic kidney disease, it has difficulty clearing the enzymes. So we can actually see amylase and lipase climbing because the kidneys are damaged, not necessarily because they've got pancreatitis. So you've got to marry those results up with the clinical picture, and that's really, really important not to forget. You know, if it's got primary kidney disease, you need to be concentrating on treating the primary kidney disease and certainly not starving your cat just because the pancreatic enzymes are up.

Okay, so, and vice versa, because I had SDMAs higher just because of the inflammation that was caused by the pancreatitis, and they were diagnosed as kidney disease issues. And I asked for ultrasound, and I asked for other things, and I saw that the kidney was actually not that affected. So I said, we have to look for pre-renal things before we start targeting the kidney as the problem here. So it is challenging. That's why I love cats.

It's wonderful, isn't it? So a couple of questions that we've got to answer here, because obviously we've got to then deal with the acute versus the chronic, and I think we should separate that out at this point, especially for Beth and a few others that have asked this question. I think, you know, when it comes to acute, there is one factor which is Once they are in an actual episode of pancreatitis, the adage of you need to start reducing fat levels within the food does seem to play true in the sense of that actually those fats are going to stimulate through normal physiology the production of enzymes within the pancreas to help that whole digestive process, as well as the bile being produced by the liver. There's a whole set of things that start to go off. And so it does appear in those acute cases that are actually active, lower fat may be a better option, but certainly it is much more processed foods. And this is another wonderful thing that came up from the conference we've just had is the effects that we've known about for a while of ultra-high processed foods. So any kibble diets and carbohydrate-led diets is actually not just this insulin drive, but actually the levels of acrylamides, so the protein binding with saccharides, so sugars within the food, and through the heat process, what those advanced glycation end products actually can do to your cat's gut and increasing the inflammation. So we do see that as a little bit of a problem. Julianne seems to have dropped off now, so we'll just continue with our conversation, wait for her to come back in. So from a point of view of in the acute, absolutely, I would consider low fat. That does not necessarily mean high carbohydrate. That's perfect. So really important to understand. So what's, you know, for you, what is the best in the acute phase? What is the best diets that you would be supporting the cat's gut nutrition with? And at what point would you be talking to clients about their cats being on intravenous fluids and that side of things?

Well, in acute, actually, I got few patients that actually eat. So unless you manage the pain and all the digestive, you know, that's when you use the most amount of drugs the regular drugs to get the cat stabilized. And sometimes, well, many times I had to go through to use the tube because of, you know, if the cat stops eating and it wasn't in a proper diet. Because, well, fasting is still something very complex to discuss and not for a disease like this. But usually when they got pancreatitis, they've been eating something that that does not allow them to fast. So, or at least in my experience. And so I usually go, if the cat is not eating, just for the risk of lipidosis, I simply, if I have to use the tube, I would. That's the first thing. And the fluids for me are very beneficial if the cat has actually been vomiting and dehydrating, right? Otherwise, you know, it— then the other— in the other sense, what I would think about is if the cat is actually able to clear the whatever toxins are going through. But otherwise, I, I don't stress the cat unnecessarily. Uh, and then for the diet, I would choose a single protein thing, uh, high protein, uh, very digestible, very raw if possible, but if not raw, I would go for cooked foods as well. It depends on the cat. I had cats actually go better on raw and others that actually went better with cooked. Very lightly cooked, very easy to digest, and I use a little bit of fat, but short fatty acids. For example, I switch to coconut oil or I switch to, you know, And actually I allow them to choose if they want to, but I use a little bit of that. I usually don't use bones at this time and nothing, you know, very, very easy to digest and no carbohydrates. Then I'll add a little bit of fiber if needed. But that will go— that will be my first choice at the beginning.

It's really interesting with regards to fatty acids. Many people look at— so the standard in many processed foods is 10 to 1, you know, 10 parts of omega-6 to, to 1 part omega-3, which is actually totally different to a normal sort of prey model or any other sort of approach. And you'd look at even 3 to 4 to 1 of omega-6s to omega-3s. And those fats are actually really good if you've got that level of omega-3s coming in. They're actually anti-inflammatory. You know, so omega-6s, precursors to things like arachidonic acid and the sort of normal inflammatory mediators, you know, great for infections and helping with those, absolutely vital to make sure that they're maintaining good immune systems. However, if you've got runaway inflammation, you actually want to try and change that a little bit. And we were talking about, well, you can't use fish oils because they can be full of so many toxins and that can just add to the inflammation. But there's some great oils out there from algae oils through to actually even brain material, which are really, really rich in DHA and EPA and omega-3s. And actually, as long as the animals are below 12 months of age, they are fit for consumption, so you can actually purchase them relatively inexpensively.

Can I just say that that is super gross, but also explains why I keep finding headless mice I keep coming down in the mornings, I would say on average probably one a week, and baby Max will, you know, there's a present for mummy and it's headless, like eat the whole bloody thing. So that either doesn't eat it, eats the head, or I'm like, eat the whole thing, bud, like you got a nice range of vitamins and minerals in the whole little mouse, vole, or shrew. And I just keep coming downstairs to headless mice.

It's like cracking nuts. Maybe he doesn't want to crack the nut and open up the goodness. And he's leaving it for mommy to do it for him.

Yeah, what about the chunky body?

Like, but he likes, you know, he's smart, he's eating the, the good nutrient content of the body. I mean, that's, that's amazing. It's gross, but it's amazing.

With the head, with the skull, and then the brain matter with the omegas. And I'm like, yeah, I get the memo, baby Max. Good job, you know, well done.

Disgusting, but thank you.

Sorry, carry on.

I think you need more omega-3s.

My cat actually hates fish oil in any format, so I have to be creative. And, and now I'm going to try the brain because he doesn't eat, you know, he's so picky.

But so I would then say I totally agree. I think bone broth, anything to seal and heal the gut, okay, is really— this is where it comes in. So there's some great products out there. I've used human versions which have a zinc and carnosine sort of combination alongside some of the, the salving herbs for the gut. So we're looking at German chamomile, you know, a few things along those lines, some slippery elm. They can be really useful just to try and calm the gut down. And I know people will say, but what about the pancreas? And I absolutely agree with Amaya, that at this point you've got to look at intravenous fluids. Dehydration is so important. Diarrhea is not always seen in these cases. Often it is vomiting. So, you know, they are vomiting, you need to give some intravenous control of their hydration. You need to give them some pain relief, an anti-inflammatory to stop the vomiting side of things. Once you've got that under control, that's where small doses of feeding come in. But you know what's so important? Yes, when you start to do this holistic stuff and you start to look at other factors that come in, normal gut function is a parasympathetic function. If they are super scared in hospital— and I hope the vet techs are still watching this because this is really important for you guys— you know, one of the main things that you need to be doing is look at all the pheromone stuff for calming, look at how you can sit with those patients and give them calming signals. So if they want handling, if they want oxytocin release from stroking, all of that side of things, anything that you can do to improve their parasympathetic tone, their normal gut function, is going to be super helpful and super anti-inflammatory. So this is why nursing is so important to the healing of our patients.

Okay, can I just add into that as well? Sorry, Amaya, but I'm gonna—

no, no, that's, that's for you. I was going to send it to you.

I was gonna say, let me just share this one nugget that's come up that I can share with everybody, because this week is so about YouTube, but the next month, roll on my turn. So, um, for those of you that are, you know, like, like Brendan said, the, the techs, the nurses, the, the nurturing part of it, there are two beautiful options. So Valerian water or hydrosalt and rose hydrosol or water. Ensure that it is actual rose and not like a perfume, but you can spray that actual hydrosol on your hands and you just sit near the cat. So like Brendan said, if they need that oxytocin release and they'll let you stroke them, great. If not, you can sit like outside their cage, outside their pen, and just have it on your hands. Put your fingers through the— if you've got like the grates or the cage. And, and you know, the rose and the valerian are both wonderful in terms of of bringing that anxiety, that stress, that nervous system back down from that kind of, you know, stressed fight or flight state. So, um, rose and valerian for me, hydrosols particularly. Essential oils, highly, highly concentrated. You need to know what you're doing with them. Herbs, you know, they—

I will add chamomile to that.

Uh, okay, I was gonna say, you got anything else to add? And just— yeah, so I— so yeah, and if you use herbs You know, you, you might bring the smell, bring the scent into more of the kind of the practice room, which most animals will be okay with. But with hydrosols, and I don't generally recommend, I don't use a lot of hydrosols myself, but they are a beautiful option to have that kind of halfway strength and concentration between essential oils and herbs. So you can put it on you. And again, I've done this with a cat before. You know, you put it on your hands and you let them choose what they do. And some of them will like headbutt and rub into you so that they can get it on themselves. So I was going to say, Amaya, that was my third one. I was trying to just keep it, you know, short so people could remember. But yes, rose, chamomile, and valerian hydrosols or floral waters. But I'd probably go for hydrosols because their concentration will be, um, you'll have more of the scent molecules of the aromatic in there as opposed to it being a floral water. So yeah, sorry, that was just my two penneth worth.

That's what I wanted for you to speak up, because that's the part of behavior in clinical. Then, you know, sometimes you have to deal with a lot of animals at the same time, so you didn't have so much time. So it is important as well that you are calm if you're going to approach and nurse a cat that is needing it. And try, I mean, if it's possible to actually have the time, quality time with their with their guardian if possible, because I've seen some places that don't allow too much time. And if the cat needs to be, you know, in the hospital, it's important that, you know, he gets sometimes with mommy. And the same thing with the Feliway, I would do the same thing with the hands because I've seen cats that don't like Feliway. So just in case you're not stressing cats, just protocol with the feline way.

And so the other things to remember, you know, if the vets only have one ward and there's dogs and cats, that can be super stressful. So trying to make sure that they may even at least be able to use isolation, but if they are using isolation to some degree, do try and— there's so many great recordings now on YouTube and things like that just to play some, you know, stuff of birdsong and forests and stuff like that that's going on for some stimulation to them so they are not feeling like they're threatened, but they are effectively looking out on all of those normal behavioural things. So there are some extra little bits that you can add in.

And if you want to go pro with the sounds, you have— there is a website called Sound and Life that actually sells you sounds of nature that are recorded and they have the scientific proof of what frequencies they are selling and have actually different sounds for different disease. And it's really good because I've done a good experiment with one of my clients who has 6 Maine Coons. And I said, okay, they all have gingivitis, but let's put the sound in one room and let them, you know, see if they want another sound in another room. And actually they went to the same one all together. And just one that had a different, you know, he had more stomatitis instead, and he went to the other sound, which is quite amazing how they even will choose different sounds.

I mean, what was the website again, Amaya?

Sound and Life.

Sound and Life. Okay.

Is that like 'and' the word? Sound 'and'? Yep. Okay.

Is that a dot com or a—

I guess it's a dot com. I don't know if it's in English though, but—

Oh, Amaya, come on with recommendations.

This is Spanish.

Well, we'll put a little link on after today's show so that anybody can see that on our Facebook page. So if you just look at Raw Pet Medics on Facebook and there'll be a post there with the Sound and Life link too. I just wanted to answer this, Sean Youngsman. Absolutely, this is something we may have rushed over. If you're taking your little kitty cat in with any disease and they're going to have a blood test, ideal that they should be tested when they have fasted for up to 8 to 12 hours before the blood test if possible, and that you, you know, effectively if you can do it in the morning as well, that's a standardized when most of these tests are done. But remember, there are slightly different levels for raw-fed kitty cats than there is from dry-fed, kibble-fed, high-carb diet kitty cats. So it's a slightly different population curve. If your vet's not sure, get in touch with a holistic vet that knows about raw food feeding. They'll be able to give some advice on that, I'm sure. So that's just— it just shifts things like you know, some of the kidney enzymes over just because they're a higher protein meal. So that's that one. I think we should move on because we've not got too much time and there's so much information. And thanks for all of those guys that are still watching to do with this. There's definitely so many things that can be done in the acute case. Once you get through to the more chronic case, I think we need to touch on that for many of those the viewers out there. Amaya, what's your sort of favorite supplements?

All right, well, it still is going to be omega-3, but also I'm having a lot of success with flaxseed oil. And flaxseed, very, you know, flaxseed is not the whole grain, right? Just because I don't know We have different names in Spanish. We call it flaxseed when it's the whole seed, but then when you ground it, it's another name. But ground it, that's an important thing because I use that as a fiber source. I create— it's called like the vegan egg that you can do with flaxseed. So I put a little bit of water, like you would do with psyllium husk, the same thing.

But chia seeds and things like that as well. Mix.

Yes, exactly, exactly. So you do that. The only thing I do this is because I found out that it protects a little bit the inflammation from the stomach if the cat has been vomiting. I had a lot of success with, uh, flaxseed oil and oil— no, sorry, the ground seeds are made as egg. And then it is really good as a fiber source, so we can restore a little bit the, the gut function. With the omega-3 and the inflammation, and I start adding certain foods. I still keep— I try to, uh, the first period I try to use a single protein, and like, like you, we were talking as, uh, with an allergic cat. So, um, simply because I'd like to control whatever, uh, reactions they might have, because I don't know. I'm considering that this cat became inflamed because of the food source, so I try to eliminate all the possible other causes around, so I control the diet and what I'm including every time. And so for the— if you're feeding raw or the cat is transitioning to it, I will use single protein for a while, small portions, until we get everything restored. And then I feed a lot of vitamin Bs in different ways, folate and cobalamin as the most important ones. And then I don't have for pancreatitis a lot of herbal things, so I'm going to leave that for you because I usually go for the liver ones, you know, to protect like milk thistle or the other one. There's, I have I can't think of the name now, uh, in English. But usually I, I use the same, uh, the same ones that I, I get for the liver issues. That's hard, right?

I'll dive into those because we're short of time, and I sort of think, you know, there's some bits that we want to take through to, um, Patreon maybe. But I know that, um, Judy's page will be sweating slightly that we're getting close to their cutoff time. So from a point— sorry, Judy— uh, from a point of view of cats are so important, we've just got to talking about them. So certainly a number of people have asked about homeopathic remedies. I found very effective things like Iris vers, you know, at a low potency in the sort of chronic terms. So looking at reducing inflammation. So some of the key factors is that recurrent vomiting, abdominal pain, you know, upset mid-abdominal, cranial abdominal pain, discomfort, and some liver issues. An Iris vers at a 6C, 3 times a day, can be really, really useful. I'll even do some of the drops in their water for those that they can't actually physically medicate and just let them choose their own water with the remedy. And, you know, talking about zoopharmacognosy and the amazingness of it, you know, the number of cats that will go to homeopathic potencies in water and choose specifically that over standard water that's in, in the house is quite amazing. So really useful there. Other supports, I agree entirely with what you said, Amaya, for supporting not just the gut but also the other organs. So looking at some of the mother tinctures again, a small number of drops into their daily water. So that might be 3 drops 3 times a day, so 9 drops into their daily water of things like Cardus marianus, Chelidonium, Taraxacum, Berberis. Yeah, those are really good options. Alfalfa, if you're really struggling with your cat or dog eating, can be a really good additional herb to look at there. Obviously, Taraxacum and Berberis have crossovers into kidney support and so many people will look at that. If you're dealing with the sort of IBD, IBS types of things that seem to be aggravating, you know, sometimes you will have to choose some commercially available products. So there's things like the Dorwest Keepers Mix Sensitive will have some of those herbs we've talked about earlier, the German chamomile, licorice, there's some marshmallow root, things like that within them that can be really helpful. You just have to be really careful about mixing those herbs into a bone broth or something like that and seeing if your cat will take them. Don't smear them all over their food and risk putting them off. Just give them a small amount to be able to taste and test themselves. So BioFunction 8, Conor would kill me if I didn't mention that is the equivalent from DogsFirst.ie. But it's, you know, it's a dog thing. You know, it's got dogs in the title. So why would I say it on a Feline Friday?

And also mushrooms. I forgot to mention I do have some mushrooms that I use, but I like, I like the fact that you said every time I try a supplement because it's different every time, I make sure that they actually tolerate it, because I had very many cats sensitive to different things. So yes, I do that as well. But mushrooms for me are, for example, lion's mane is one of them for the stress levels, the pain, and the gut and everything, because that's one of my favorite mushrooms in the world. And then maitake, if I feel like there is— what's very good for inflammation, it's good really good for pancreas. And maybe I can go with shiitake, but it's not— or reishi if needed. But usually, first of all, lion's mane is more— for me, it's the safest as well to use. And then I will go through that depending on the case. But mushrooms can help a lot.

Uh, very last thing we're going to just say, uh, to Jenny is where to buy, um, things like valerian, rose hydrosol. Anything else we're going to keep over for our Patreon, so we'll go over there so we're not interrupting Judy any longer. So if you want to join us over on Patreon, you can find us on patreon.com/wildpreppedmedics. For the price of a cup of coffee, you can join in with the community over there. It'd be great to see you and see any more questions that you have. We can be a little bit more— answer those. So last one for Jenny: where can she buy the things that you've talked about?

Yeah, so there's a couple of places in the UK. So you can get it from Caroline Ingram, um, who has a shop online. You can get it from My Animal Matters, which is, um, another cat and dog zoopharma practitioner, Rachel. Or you can get them from Oshadi, O-S-H-A-D-I. Okay, so those are the three that I would recommend. Good quality, you know that they're not perfumed, they are the real deal. And I'm gonna hold it there. We'll see you on Patreon.

Brilliant. Thanks guys, remember you're going to be able to see both Julianne and Amaya at the Raw Pet Medics Live Live in December. If you want to join us on the 2nd of December and you're able to join us there, please do go on to the Eventbrite link that's on our Facebook page. You'll be able to buy tickets to come join us for a whole day with myself, Nick, Conor, Julianne, and Amaya It's also a bit of edutainment, so education with some fun and laughter in the afternoon, a chance to get to ask questions and to see what we're all about. So if you can join us there, that would be great. For everybody else, over on Patreon, or enjoy the rest of your weekend. Have a good time.

Brilliant. Thanks, guys, for being here.